Dragon’s Maze || Crack-a-Pack - Aug 5, 2021

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  • Опубліковано 21 гру 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 133

  • @Izandaia
    @Izandaia 3 роки тому +40

    I remember at one point learning the trivia that the most valuable card from this set was Voice of Resurgence, and the second most valuable "card" from this set was the Voice of Resurgence token.

    • @ToxicAtom
      @ToxicAtom 10 місяців тому +4

      Very funny, but unfortunately no longer true. Currently the most expensive card in Dragon's Maze is Master of Cruelties at an absolutely back-breaking $4 USD. A single copy of every card in the set will set you back just under ten times that, at a cool $39 USD (at the time I make this comment)

  • @pyredynasty
    @pyredynasty 3 роки тому +60

    Obscure rule: when someone plays a gatekeepers you have to say, "Yes, my gatekeeper" or you get exiled to the blaggole.

    • @EternalDensity
      @EternalDensity 3 роки тому +4

      Experience Beej.

    • @daverapp
      @daverapp 3 роки тому +2

      Yo, Baron, I can dig it!!

    • @luketfer
      @luketfer 3 роки тому +2

      A spoony reference in this day and age...someone is showing their age :P

    • @pyredynasty
      @pyredynasty 3 роки тому +1

      I earned every second of it.

  • @righteousforest5538
    @righteousforest5538 3 роки тому +97

    This set may not have drafted well, but after getting back into the game following my Innistrad-Dominaria hiatus finding out there was a set with ALL 10!GUILDS IN ONE PACK made me so excited to get my hands on some packs.

    • @Reach_W
      @Reach_W 3 роки тому +4

      Also it gave us one of the best Magic cards ever printed in Maze's End, so there's that!

    • @EternalDensity
      @EternalDensity 3 роки тому +1

      The living guildpack! ;)

    • @rennefaireresident9085
      @rennefaireresident9085 3 роки тому

      @@EternalDensity guildpact. IDK what a guild pack is except maybe an angry mob...

  • @MSUHitman
    @MSUHitman 3 роки тому +47

    One thing to add to Graham’s point about the land slot, 2 packs in each box had a Shockland in the land slot instead of a gate.
    That is the only reason sealed Dragon’s Maze boxes have rebounded somewhat in value as every other noteworthy card in the set other than Maze’s End has been reprinted.
    The same process was repeated with Fate Reforged where 2 packs/box had a fetch instead of a gain land.

    • @willemboele2079
      @willemboele2079 3 роки тому

      that last one can't be true
      either that or i actually did have the worst box ever (1 mythic a lot of bad rares double)

    • @nikomcpherson8394
      @nikomcpherson8394 3 роки тому

      Did you mean Kahns? I don’t think Fate had fetches…

    • @mowsey98
      @mowsey98 3 роки тому +6

      @@nikomcpherson8394 In Khans, the fetch lands occupied rare slots. In Fate Reforged you could get the khans printing of fetch lands in place of the gain lands - 2 per box. This is also true for Dragon's maze and shock lands, where like fate, there are no dragon's maze printings of shock lands, but the shocks would replace the gates at a rate of 2 per box.

  • @LadyLunarSatine
    @LadyLunarSatine 3 роки тому +4

    My main connection to Dragon's Maze was at the prerelease; I and one other guy were repping Golgari and we somehow finished the guild race in first place.

  • @spiralhaze2070
    @spiralhaze2070 3 роки тому +6

    Pack openings - Pretty good
    Graham's ramblings - Top notch

  • @DimT670
    @DimT670 3 роки тому +68

    Love seeing melek on the pack knowing he literally gets killed 10 pages after he is introduced in the book
    For those curious, Ral kills him impulsively to run the maze because Niv said he couldn't run the maze because he was too selfish and impulsive and didn't have the future of the guild in mind. Ofc thr astute among you will notice that Rals actions basically prove Niv right

  • @PlussGoodFun
    @PlussGoodFun 3 роки тому +29

    i feel so bad for dragon's maze, it came out right around when i started magic and i loved it. It's too bad it wasn't such a great set in retrospective :

    • @ArixOdragc
      @ArixOdragc 3 роки тому

      I know how you feel, I started with Prophecy.

    • @matterhorn731
      @matterhorn731 3 роки тому

      This is how I feel about Ixalan.

  • @armstrongturbo
    @armstrongturbo 3 роки тому +8

    It bums me out that this set was such a bomb. I remember buying a box of it when I first got into Magic and loving it.

    • @matthewyoho5422
      @matthewyoho5422 3 роки тому +3

      Weird nitpick about language stuff: colloquially speaking, referring to Dragon's Maze as being "a bomb" means that you're asserting that it is good/great (because for whatever reason, being "a/the bomb" means things are good/great... or possibly just explosives). The word you want to describe something that's the opposite of good, also explosives-related, is "a dud" (ie, "a bomb that does not go off").
      Confusingly, to say that something "bombed" DOES mean that it did poorly/was received badly (while "dud" only has positive connotations if it's describing a literal bomb that did not explode in the proximity of you or something else you care about). English is a mess.

    • @armstrongturbo
      @armstrongturbo 3 роки тому

      @@matthewyoho5422 thanks for the lesson

  • @Jedicake
    @Jedicake 3 роки тому +3

    "Profit/Loss seems pretty good"
    Zealous Persecution: "Am I a joke to you?"

    • @Orengi-kun
      @Orengi-kun 3 роки тому +1

      Damn, beat me to this.

    • @ShaqPlaque
      @ShaqPlaque 2 роки тому

      Welcome to limited, where more mana-intensive versions of prior cards can still be amazing

  • @hiimemily
    @hiimemily 3 роки тому +20

    Sin Collector is a strong sideboard option in Modern Humans at least. The only card from this set that sees more play nowadays is multi-format all-star Wear//Tear.

    • @LadyLunarSatine
      @LadyLunarSatine 3 роки тому +1

      I use him in my Alesha EDH deck, can always use the graveyard as a toolbox against the one guy, gal or them known for board wipes.

    • @gogovish
      @gogovish 2 роки тому +1

      hi emily

    • @janmelantu7490
      @janmelantu7490 Рік тому

      Rubblebelt Maaka was popular in creature-based red aggro decks, but it’s not really used in burn decks because you can just be running all the Bolts.

  • @ShaqPlaque
    @ShaqPlaque 2 роки тому

    This set never gets enough love for being an amazing sealed format. Drafting it sort of didn't work out because of the drafting structure, but sealed was actually amazing. Each pool started with the question of "Am I control or am I aggro?" and "How far do I stretch my mana?" The answer was not all the way, all the time

  • @simplycifer
    @simplycifer 3 роки тому +2

    I just got back into MTG with the Forgotten Realms set and this is a nice little trip down memory lane to when I was first playing Magic. I had so many of these cards, and distinctly remember that Sinister Possession art. Love the series, especially with these older sets.

  • @Sybato
    @Sybato 3 роки тому +1

    I really like the flavor text on Hired Torturer, good to know he's passionate about his job.

  • @Antimuffin
    @Antimuffin 3 роки тому

    The little musical theme that starts the video when you're pulling the card packs out of the drawer... I'm now calling it "the happy noise" because it's very calming and it means Graham is about to talk. 💙

  • @TherealSpartann30
    @TherealSpartann30 3 роки тому

    Graham is correct in that the land slot was messed with the first time but he neglected to mention they also had a chance to have either a shock land or maze’s end at appropriate rarity in addition to all the gate lands. So theoretically there were “god packs” of 3 mythic rares floating around in this set

  • @racg174
    @racg174 2 роки тому

    best thing about this set was drafting triple dgm and getting a hilarious amount of commons

  • @thomasrobertson3190
    @thomasrobertson3190 3 роки тому

    Sinister Possession is part of a blue-black pauper deck I use to play. Locked down my opponent with cheap 2 drop 2 power fliers then used hidden strings, hands of binding, and sinister Possession to make their attacks bad.
    I believe I took the black out of the deck sometime later but it was fun.

  • @geraldtoaster8541
    @geraldtoaster8541 3 роки тому +36

    Hey, may I ask that you display the card as you're explaining it? Fair enough that you'd want to show Graham the majority of the time as he's speaking, but personally I find it bizarrely stressful to try and comprehend the whole card in the fleeting moments that it's displayed.
    (Sometimes it gets displayed, sometimes it doesn't. I know there's some variation)

    • @MrUTPlayer
      @MrUTPlayer 3 роки тому

      I wouldnt wanna miss his expressions for nothing in the world! 😂

    • @liorramati265
      @liorramati265 3 роки тому +3

      They could do it podcast style with graham taking up the majority of the screen, and then the card on the right

  • @Slagomancer
    @Slagomancer 9 місяців тому

    Man, I've milled myself with Pilfered Plans way more than I've milled opponents

  • @kittysniffer8338
    @kittysniffer8338 3 роки тому +2

    Fun fact. I used to exclusively draft magic when the set came out and I disliked drafting it so much that I quit magic for a few years… But know I play commander so I don’t need to tie my enjoyment of magic on the quality of the draft environment! Thanks Dragons Maze!

  • @nyuzotturunk
    @nyuzotturunk 3 роки тому +1

    Oh, nice Commodore Hustle intro reference with Toil & Trouble. :)

  • @Prinrin
    @Prinrin 3 роки тому

    While Dragon's Maze is the first paper set to have what is normally the basic land slot be taken by something else (discounting Coldsnap's snow lands), it is not the first set to do so. Every pack of Master's Edition IV (MtGO only) had a tron piece in it.

  • @Halibel91
    @Halibel91 3 роки тому +6

    Fun fact about extort: due to the cost of extort is in the reminder text it doesn't count against its color identity meaning you can run Pontiff of Blight in a mono-black deck.

    • @Sugarman96
      @Sugarman96 3 роки тому +1

      Crypt Ghast in mono-B, that's where the hype is at.

  • @brandonrichard9568
    @brandonrichard9568 3 роки тому

    I remember opening a full booster box and getting about 90% of the set collected from that one box.

  • @houseofshadow6380
    @houseofshadow6380 3 роки тому

    Pontiff of Blight in a Commander deck is just gross, especially in a Zombie deck that can generate a lot of mana! Absolutely love it!

    • @houseofshadow6380
      @houseofshadow6380 3 роки тому

      Also, loving that the Cluestone was the second most expensive card in this pack lol

  • @Qegixar
    @Qegixar 3 роки тому

    Dragon's Maze draft was a fabulous mess and I loved every moment of it.

  • @rubilina1357
    @rubilina1357 3 роки тому

    Dragon’s Maze was when I picked up the game. Built a Commander deck with Exava, my first ever legendary right out of the into pack. Still have Teysa, too; just wish I could find a home for her.

  • @lucyspencer9752
    @lucyspencer9752 3 роки тому

    I always wondered why Dragons Maze was so unpopular but now I know that it was the limited format which I never played because I was garbage at limited back in high school. Now my limited is very medium. Progress!

  • @mrphlip
    @mrphlip 3 роки тому

    Part of the problem with the cluestones comes from the fact that DGM has 70 commons... a pretty normal number for small sets. But, for various accounting reasons, that included the 10 gates, which showed up in the land slot in the booster... so there were only 60 commons that would actually show up in the collation for the common slots. Of which 1 in 6 were cluestones.
    So you were expecting to, on average, see almost 2 cluestones per pack. Sometimes you'd get a lot more (I think my record was 4, maybe 5?).

  • @kitsovereign4127
    @kitsovereign4127 3 роки тому +2

    Before you get too tempted to stick Profit//Loss in your EDH deck, check out Zealous Persecution first.

  • @pyroxx462
    @pyroxx462 3 роки тому

    I like how they made zealous persecution in alara and thought "This is too good at two mana, lets make it five mana for the same effect"

  • @samuelmeyer4119
    @samuelmeyer4119 3 роки тому

    Ok, so I was listening to this in the background and I heard Graham pause for a sec, then say "Ahh" and start reading the fuse card. And somehow, I instantly knew that the joke was that he looked at the card confused, turned it sideways, and figured it out. Just posting this 'cause it made me feel smart. Also maybe stop being predictable Graham? (just kidding, I love your humor)

  • @TabbyLavalamp
    @TabbyLavalamp 3 роки тому

    It never occurred to me before that Fuse says you can play one or both halves for the fuse cost, so you can pay double the cost for just one side if you really need to for whatever reason.

  • @Engineer_Hall
    @Engineer_Hall 3 роки тому

    Other fun thing about the bloodrush mechanic is that it couldn't be countered. You could really get someone with it

  • @toagunga
    @toagunga 3 роки тому

    Fun thing about dragon's maze too, every pack had a gate OR a shockland!

  • @TheThanimal
    @TheThanimal 3 роки тому

    Dragon's Maze was the first expansion I bought an entire box of. Played packwars with a friend who box their own box as well. It is a wonder we are still involved in the game at all.

  • @TheThirdGenQ
    @TheThirdGenQ 3 роки тому

    Rubblebelt Maaka was huge card in RDW and Rabble Red standard decks.

  • @ThePyrolith
    @ThePyrolith 3 роки тому +3

    Graham “notable bad deck maker” Stark doesn’t quite roll off the tongue

  • @ShinjiSixteen
    @ShinjiSixteen 3 роки тому

    Delightful as always; thank you!

  • @shaden489
    @shaden489 3 роки тому

    I think the land slot could also be a shock instead if a gate

  • @ExKiwi-yw8er
    @ExKiwi-yw8er 3 роки тому +2

    I genuinely really love dragons maze. It's so jank it's charming, a lot more interesting than SOME modern sets.
    I always pick it for chaos drafts because I'm evil. Great set.

  • @durge12
    @durge12 3 роки тому

    did a pack of DM for a chaos draft- wasnt expecting much but opened master of cruelties!

  • @breawycker
    @breawycker 3 роки тому +1

    Dragon's maze has the least value out of any set. It's 156 cards and Scryfall says the market value for all of them is $57.29

  • @natetwehues2428
    @natetwehues2428 3 роки тому

    I totally forgot that Return was the second time we returned to to Ravnica.

  • @kilo3989
    @kilo3989 3 роки тому

    Oh man, this is wonderfully timed--I just hit my lunch break!

  • @Kryptnyt
    @Kryptnyt 3 роки тому

    Just when you think the US postal service has stopped shipping human excrement to your door, here comes Dragon's Maze!

  • @WestleyTaninger
    @WestleyTaninger 3 роки тому

    Huh. I remember quite enjoying the RtR-Gatecrash-Dragon's Maze drafting I did. Admittedly, that's probably because I'm terrible and love decks with far more colours than sense, which that trio of sets was pretty great at IIRC.
    Though I do wonder if the cluestones would've been better received if it weren't for how many gates there were. When every pack has some kind of guaranteed fixing, extra fixing at common is not nearly as exciting.

  • @thewonderdoc2999
    @thewonderdoc2999 3 роки тому +1

    Profit//Loss is just Zealous Persecution but you are allowed to pay 3 extra for the effect.

  • @DubWubby
    @DubWubby 3 роки тому

    I started in Gatecrash and Pontiff of Blight was my favourite card!

  • @GoodRogue
    @GoodRogue 3 роки тому +3

    Sweet goodness, Profit and Loss is Zealous Persecution, but SO much worse.

  • @moxavenger
    @moxavenger 3 роки тому

    Pack cracking as an art form.

  • @jesuschrist9677
    @jesuschrist9677 3 роки тому

    there was not a gate in every pack as some would have a shock land in the land slot

  • @nicholassulfaro1727
    @nicholassulfaro1727 3 роки тому

    So my first ever lgs draft was of this format. I went 0-3 with an WBG deck, but I opened a foil Voice of Resurgence on my first pack. I totally lost that draft, but in other ways I so totally won that draft.

  • @FanOfMostEverything
    @FanOfMostEverything 3 роки тому +2

    Most Dragon's Maze packs had a Gate in the land slot. Some had a shock land, and a few had Maze's End. Yes, there was a mythic rare exclusively in the land slot.
    Also, I did a triple Dragon's Maze draft once. I do not recommend it. So many Cluestones...

    • @RobertJW
      @RobertJW 3 роки тому

      I also have once tried that experience.

    • @RobertJW
      @RobertJW 3 роки тому +1

      SO.
      MANY.
      CLUESTONES.

  • @0M4STERM1ND0
    @0M4STERM1ND0 3 роки тому

    Love these videos

  • @OGNoNameNobody
    @OGNoNameNobody 3 роки тому

    Absoulely correct.
    *Pontiff* is 100% the pull from this pack.
    That is all.

  • @danholomy5852
    @danholomy5852 3 роки тому

    Extort was my favorite mechanic ! Blind Obedience lets gooo

  • @aidancox5481
    @aidancox5481 Рік тому

    Pontoff of Blight is especially broken in K'rrik

  • @vincentmccue7481
    @vincentmccue7481 3 роки тому

    Ah, extort...when you want to have everyone else ask you if you want to pay the 1.

  • @TheMaestroso
    @TheMaestroso 3 роки тому

    Remember my prerelease of this fondly, because I got the chase mythic (at the time, anyway, as it was worth $40+ - also, holy crap it's only $3.50 now) Voice of Resurgence in my pool AND in one of my prize packs.

  • @xanderhunter
    @xanderhunter 3 роки тому

    Drown in Filth is my Drowning Pool and Cradle of Filth Fusion band.

  • @maritheganger1237
    @maritheganger1237 3 роки тому

    Oh hey! the set i started my mtg journey on! and the same first pack that got me a voice of resurgence which i used to fund my first ever modern deck. Rakdos Vampires

  • @tiamatt44
    @tiamatt44 3 роки тому +1

    Wow, I just had a flashback of when you and James was drafting Gatecrash, and I think someone gave you guys the challenge where you had to win a game through only extort damage. Which turned out to be a lot less fun than anyone thought since there were a lot of times where you guys clearly had lethal through extort plus attack damage, but the game would drag on since you could only extort them. Wasn't the most fun game to watch but props for making the effort.

  • @Longclaw959
    @Longclaw959 3 роки тому

    My first set baby

  • @mhutt333
    @mhutt333 3 роки тому

    Imagine your first sealed experience is with Ravnica leaning on Dragon's Maze at SDCC after a few year's long magic break (only hearing about the cards through TTC). Thank goodness for M14 coming out the next day, using 2HG aswell!

  • @irreleverent
    @irreleverent Рік тому

    No one is running Profit//Loss in commander, but some people probably run zealous persecution.

  • @TheOrigamiGamer
    @TheOrigamiGamer 3 роки тому

    Only slightly relevant to the video but I wonder if we could get a mashup card that mixed the mechanics bloodrush and madness.

  • @kilo3989
    @kilo3989 3 роки тому

    "IT SURE IS"

  • @mathewevans9706
    @mathewevans9706 3 роки тому

    Dragon's Maze: At least it's not Gatecrash!

  • @drewa6891
    @drewa6891 3 роки тому

    Drown in Filth is on tour with Cradling Pool

  • @phtown
    @phtown 3 роки тому

    You should definitely make a commander deck with Profit // Loss and Pontiff of Blight. It would probably suck, but the important part is that you're having fun.

  • @retrowaffles5442
    @retrowaffles5442 3 роки тому

    The old set/block design of being smaller sets that draft together and all three from the year being from the same plane was... Weird. Not sure if I miss having more time dedicated to each plane, I would have loved more of kaldheim, but I'm glad we only got one set of strixhaven

  • @novarren
    @novarren 3 роки тому

    I think the guy in Pilfered Plans is a wearing a Selesnyan headdress and Mirko Vosk is Mind Drinking them? I can't remember if we've otherwise seen the Selesnya guy while not having their mind drunk.

  • @aidancox5481
    @aidancox5481 3 роки тому

    I once won a game of commander with Pontiff of Blight

  • @mattybbg6850
    @mattybbg6850 3 роки тому

    I'm stealing the ERRRRR for my phone notifications.

  • @bigwig8657
    @bigwig8657 3 роки тому

    Cluestones weren't that much worse than lockets, just rtr limited was much faster on avg than grns block. Boros was the only fast aggro in the block in grn/rna, rakdos and orzhov aggro were more grindy aggro than 1 drop, 2 drop, 3 drop, 3 or 4 drop, cosmo wave dead. They were much more early drops to trigger spectacle with and just kill your big stuff/outvalue you with jugglers, bladebrand combos, after life etc.
    And unleash, bloodrush and boros mechanic all were super aggressive mechanics.

  • @gameprose4293
    @gameprose4293 3 роки тому

    Not gonna lie, I used Toil and Trouble in my Nekusar the Mindrazer EDH deck.

  • @artstsym
    @artstsym 3 роки тому

    Turns out trying to cram every guild in one set was a bad idea, who could have seen this comi- everyone. Everyone saw this coming.

  • @Dragonroot95
    @Dragonroot95 3 роки тому

    *animates ferally*

  • @BenBeverwriter
    @BenBeverwriter 3 роки тому

    I agree that Extort was fun! I have a BW commander deck that makes good use of the mechanic.

  • @DimT670
    @DimT670 3 роки тому

    Dragons maze basically single handedly killes blocks it was so bad

  • @Kootify17
    @Kootify17 3 роки тому

    Liked just for the Izzet cluestone joke.

  • @taylord2006
    @taylord2006 3 роки тому

    Crack a pack! Keep em coming!

  • @NStripleseven
    @NStripleseven 3 роки тому

    hey guys did you know sometimes you have to play cards?

  • @nerothewizard
    @nerothewizard 3 роки тому

    The problem with this limited format was exactly that common cycle of gatekeepers. Everything in this format was a 2/4. Combat was a slog and a nightmare, and there wasn't a "fast" deck because all the mana fixing entered tapped. That said, Pontiff of Blight is a very fun card, and I definitely play it in my Endrek Sahr Commander deck.

  • @KingOfDoma
    @KingOfDoma 3 роки тому +1

    I know I've accepted that I'm old. How? I'm concerned that Graham didn't explain "regenerate"...

  • @falke3090
    @falke3090 3 роки тому

    Ok, but how do you pronounce hypenation when both the wolf and the rider are armoured?

  • @EternalDensity
    @EternalDensity 3 роки тому

    The real feral animists are the people who downvote such engaging content.

  • @TalosParoxi
    @TalosParoxi 3 роки тому

    speaking of gatekeeping I just found out that the gatekeeper video isn't available in Canada anymore for some reason...

    • @LRRMTG
      @LRRMTG  3 роки тому

      ua-cam.com/video/TTSUMXafOjs/v-deo.html

  • @mcbiscuits8015
    @mcbiscuits8015 3 роки тому

    I enjoy the CH reference

  • @matthewyoho5422
    @matthewyoho5422 3 роки тому

    As disappointing as Dragon's Maze might be... it WAS the set that gave us "Ruric Thar, the Unbowed", which is to date still my favorite Magic card. So I have a bit of a soft spot for it.

  • @DrewSwenson
    @DrewSwenson 3 роки тому

    RTR was my First set, and Gatecrash my second. Azorius all day! I didn't really pick up much from Dragon's Maze though.

  • @teddybagadonuts2617
    @teddybagadonuts2617 3 роки тому

    Now is Graham not a fan of Coloe Out of Space or just the card???

  • @bigwig8657
    @bigwig8657 3 роки тому

    Full set ravinica was maybe the most complicated to draft format if you didn't know which guilds were in which packs and plan accordingly.
    Tbh I would actually quite like to see a grn-rna-war draft format since War wasn't a guild set and the mana would support playing wedges and shards of 1 pack 1 guild, 1 pack 2 guild really easily. Arena get on it

  • @VAB0L0
    @VAB0L0 3 роки тому

    I bought a DGM fatpack at Toys R Us at a 50% discount a year after the set was out, and lemme tell you, it still wasn't worth it :P

  • @ulrichs.3228
    @ulrichs.3228 3 роки тому

    Funny (and by funny I mean mind-numbingly boring) anecdote: I quit playing Magic around when Shadow was the thing (Early Weatherlight block, I think).
    Mumble decades later, I decide to buy a box of bulk commons, because I figured sorting cards might help calm my OCD. You cannot imagine how awesome gates are to somebody who played 4th to Weatherlight, during which period there were no dual-mana lands whatsoever and everybody played two-color decks exclusively, because 3+ wasn't viable and mono meant you lose to the guy with the CoP.
    So yes, dual-color gates please, until I die from cardboard constipation like some MtG Elvis.

  • @resrrasg8881
    @resrrasg8881 3 роки тому

    Sad lookimg dymir man, orzov? (gram looking at selesnia man)

  • @christopherlundgren1700
    @christopherlundgren1700 3 роки тому

    I think the concept of Dragon's Maze was reasonable, but there just wasn't enough in it to get excited about. It didn't help that there were so many powerful iconic cards in the previous two sets in the block; it kind of made for a lame finale and it made the draft environment feel more diffuse since it spread the focus over all the color pairs.

  • @joseph1150
    @joseph1150 11 місяців тому +1

    cluestones are ass. It's an another mana rock for 3 that has a marginal upside. I wouldn't even play them in draft unless i was desperate. They aren't signets.