The Secret To Jazz Vocabulary(No Bullsh*t)
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- Опубліковано 4 лип 2023
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CONFESSION:
I should've made it clear that E dorian has a C# which theoretically don't work over Cmajor7. The "right" scale is E phrygian over Cmajor7(3rd mode of the C major scale)
BUT I find that "wrong" C# is a nice flavor to use as a note that stands out which makes nice boplines. We don't wanna be good boys only when we play lol! However I should have 100% have talked about what's "theoretically" right and how one can go against it via "wrong" scales. :) !!!!Now go play E dorian over C major!!!!
Parker used flat,9s..all over the place,no good or bad notes it's about feel ,timing,resolution,attitude and context
Bird mainly used flat nines on dominant chords. But flat nines on major 7 chords only appeared as chromatic passing tones. If you have an example that contradicts this, please share.
I was wondering about that - glad you mentioned it😊
I only heard that with my eyes....(i saw you play the 6th fret of the G string)..i started thinking, and I checked to see what chord you said it was being played over, I thought it was CMaj7...it was...I think your intentions were more important than the note....even if you didn't plan for it....That a huge lesson for us all
WOW. !!! Really good lesson.
You are like me in the future. Better guitar player. Already quit weed. Starting youTube and business. Yes man. I am right behind you on these.
😂😂I’m in the same fettle as you man and for this I shall subscribe.
Excellent explanation, thanks! I read Martino's book many years ago, but for whatever reason I couldn't really understand what he was getting at. In a few minutes here, you've managed to break this down in a way that makes sense to me, cheers!
Makes me happy to hear bro!
💯Best lesson
Straight to the point! This is the way things should be done. No fluff, no bull. Good job!
Thank you alot!
Real cool lesson, man! Thanks.
I found out that I have the book sitting in my shelf for about 20 years totally forgotten. Gift of a guitar teacher back then. It’s time to give it a try.
That makes an INSANE amount of sense!
thank you so much, really enlightening!
I've been doing this for years. I think of the MM scale as the Dorian mode with a raised 7th rather than a Major scale with a flattened 3rd. Makes life a lot easier, and works just about everywhere. 👍
The minor conversions really works hella good on guitar for some reason!
@@Guitarmin98 Pat Martino does it all of the time, basically. Scott Henderson is into it to, but in a different way. 👍
Thanks for sharing, I really like the way you explained the concepts in Pat's book. You really cleared a lot of things up for me. I will consider taking some lessons from you when I have some free time
Happy you liked it man!
Coming from a jazz/blues background the E Dorian over C is a bit of a staple.since blues is a lot of minor scales over major chords and adding passing tones to sound way more sophisticated then we really are.
Thank You for sharing this information with us. Your explanation is pretty clear and of course your playing is awesome.
I appreciate you!!
Very interesting and useful...thank you!
This is what metal and rock fusion guys do - it’s a much easier approach 😊
Great lesson with concepts that are easy to apply. The melodies really do start oozing out of your fingers.
YES Chris!! That's what they suppose to!
Very nice!
Great lesson. I have Pat’s book. Time to check it out again. Thanks for your great explanation. Much appreciated 👍🏿
Very good stuff :)
Great concepts, succinctly explained too! Subscribed :)
Welcome brooo!
Great video. I have to buy that book.
My brother gave me Pat's "Linear Expressions" book in 1985. I was playing Country/Rock at the time. I couldn't find anything useful in it back then. Thank you for laying this out. Better late than never.
That's cool! Hope you give it one more chance man!
@@Guitarmin98 Oh, I Definitely will! Thanks.
A brilliant video. Thanks.
Thanks a ton!
Haha this was good, appreciate the free knowledge man you killed it! 👍🏽🔥
Salute bro!
Thanks. Those were some things I wanted to know
Great bro
Beautiful stuff, thanks for making this video! Barry Harris’s ideas really unlocked all of this for me. It made everything make sense to me.
Now i'm gonna watch a video of him roasting some students hahah! Thanks for sharing!
Have any links of articles I could read? I love him.
Very cool
I have this book but never applied it as you described
Looks like I’m taking a deep
dive !
It's a gold mine lol!! It really changed my lines in an instant!
amazing lesson :)
That's super important lesson you remind us 😊 Thank.
Happy to hear!
thanks for that armin! really usefull
Thanks brother Ramiro!
Jazz hands!
Good video.
That's an interesting way to make interesting sounds flow through your fingers!
Scales are great... for getting your musical qualifications, for music teachers and their students, for "academ-musicians" & music history professors. As Bird said (sorta...), learn them perfectly & study them intimately. Then, break their boundaries & tendancy to chain you down! Start using the ears, inner hearing, and inspiration... Start really improvising & making music.
This is a great approach 👍 Thanks so much !
My guy! Thanks a ton
Loving these ideas. Plus I must listen to Pat Martino more. Thanks for the reminder.
Glad you liked bro!! I recomend his early live album ” young guns ” it’s fcking sick!
Bro. Game changer. Thank you.
Go get it Joel!
Thank You, this is The most useful lesson I have had in a Long Long Long Time !
That makes me happy to hear!
Good video
I've been learning about music theory for about 6 hours max. I've watched half of this, I feel like I've been ran over by a bus. Saved to watch later, I'll be back in a few months. Or years, no idea how deep this is on the iceberg meme of music stuff.
6 hours into a world of expression! Good for you.
Wow... this would be a one hour vid for most YT channels 😂 Greatly appreciate this wisdom! I personally have a really hard time remembering all the modes and their application and blah blah... I know it's useful, but if Pat was anything like me, and felt unnatural going the complex route, maybe the only difference between us is courage
Thanks so much! In the end all this is to make improvisation less of a mystery for our brains! Do what resonates with you
great lesson!
Thanks
I have been relearning guitar after discovering Mick Goodrick's Advancing Guitarist, I am glad to come across your video, your enthusiasm inspires me and is also very motivating , really appreciate u sharing
Makes me happy to hear!
great video ! you cleared up alot of things for me. this could have easily been a course at college. thank you
Happy you liked it Noel!
I bet there are some golden triad pairs in this concept!
Awesome video man. Now im going to listen to a bunch of Pat Martino.
YEES!! My favorite tune is the first tune on "Young Guns".. The MELODICISM omg
You have a lot of mana to constantly conjure spells like that.
💯👌🙏 I'm glad you lay it out this comprehensibly as I had been hoping forever that someone would give me a "key" to "unlock" Jazz harmony as learning the scales never made much sense to me or really: Almost zero. I guess I'm also thinking more in terms of the relationships that chords in a chord progression share - i.e. functional harmony, I guess, is the technical term here -rather than in modal ways. Where I'm concerned, the modes are sort of a side effect of what you're showing us here about Martino's way of approaching it.
Another icon whose approach to Jazz always spoke to me is George Benson, of course, who'd lean heavily on the Blues scale and Blues altogether at the base of his improvisation.
Really glad that UA-cam presented this and you in the related videos. Gotta hit that subscribe button right away... Thanks so much!
THANK you a bunch man!
Man this is the good shit. Really giving me Django Reinhardt vibes with your phrasing. Am excited to practice and employ this in my playing 🤝 thank you sir
Thanks sir! Now go GET IT!
Thank you it was an amazing lesson... All the way from Nepal :)
धन्यवाद bro
Thank you,Amir🌹🌹⭐🌹🌹
aRmin! Thank you Brenda!!!
thank you Bro! peace
bro thank you!
🔥🫨 love it
Definitely going to expirement with different modes now, hopefully it helps achieve a more interesting sound.
Most of the time, it does lol!!
I'll go get the book. I need help with Jazz so this definitely helps. Thanks!
It changed my playing that's for sure! Thanks
What book ?
Linear Expressions @@antoneath
Actually, as great as Martino is/was he once said he got this main idea from Wes Montgomery. Wes didn't have a clue about scales or theory , couldn't even read chord boxes BUT he had something far more important, he had perfect pitch, like his brothers and I have an interview where he is asked "'How do you interpret a G minor chord?" His answer was "'I don't practice scales , I dont know any...I practice TUNES, never scales & I don't know as many chords as others... so if I might play a G minor chord but it won't anything like the G min chord you might know...If I play a phrase over it it won't be from a G minor scale..it might be more a C7th but with added notes"'
Wes transcribed Charlie Christian. Pat transcribed Wes, Sonny Stitt and Charlie Parker. Not sure if Wes had perfect pitch, but both guys had done their homework.
I jus tried the minor two five one and sounds amazing ❤
Good for youuuu!!
you know the feeling when you feel everything clicks and pieces together ? well this video made it happen, especially with the E dorian over Cmaj7, i was like didn’t he mean E natural minor ? until i tried it myself
great content
Magic to hear bro!
Natural Minor IS the more "correct" way theoretically but as of playing bop lines I always found the dorian makes it just that of a little more spice!!
Thanks for your comment!
The C# doesn’t make sense to me. I’ll have to go to the piano to try some things. The rest is super clear and cool.
Bravo bravo great revelation knoledge... now lets play,,,
There you go!! Lets get it!
This is pretty interesting
You just solved it all for me man
Thanks now go get it!
Ok. I have a follow up question.
On the topic of the minor ii-iv that goes to cm7 ...
F minor dorian.. Is it not the same scale as Ebmaj? What happens to me is I'm actually getting caught in the 'relative' cycle of thinking of Fmin dorian as Ebmaj which is causing my phrasing to sound just like it used to..
ie thinking of the major mode relative to C minor when I'm trying to experiment with new phrasing for solos. Make sense?
If it wasn't for this method I wouldn't be able to play jazz at all. Great video!
Literally same for me!!!!
@@Guitarmin98 Great channel, I never have the time to watch instruction. So many things in my watch later list. I will check out more here when I can.
This is a great concept! I’m sure Larry Carlton does a similar thing with thinking of a 5th above e.g. C7 chord = G7 triad to give it a different quality and feel 👌 Will start practising the different ways of playing the not so obvious scales/chord tones over chords e.g. C minor pent over Cmin7 😅
Erm.. G7 triad over C7 ? I think it’s supposed to be Gmi7 over C7 or am I missing something?
nice concept..there is also a vid that i think he uses about 4 different Alt scales on a dominant 7th.. as for Cmaj 7 give me G 6th dim scale any day. that Eb must be heard
I know that feeling hahah! Do whichever you feel like. I find that sometimes I just want to move on and sometimes I want to extract everything I can from the solo.
Cool video
NAh you're cool Carl!!
Lol. Modes
A very good topic to explore! But Pat Martino really didn't even start to describe how he approached note choice, right? I remember he based his note framework around the diminished tonality. As we know from Barry Harris theory, that can act as a sort of "slide rule" for any extended tonality. So how do we really connect the dots to develop a generic way to proceed?
You're right! I'm not that educated on his work except for the Linear Expressions book. I remember trying to use Pats way of thinking and merging it with Barry Harris's family of dominant thing but my brain just couldnt hahah!
Hi ! At minute 5.20, I was reflecting on the fact that A dorian on CMaj7 works well ( A dorian on Cmaj7 is C lydian ) but not as well as E dorian which corresponds to the D major scale.....
The Eminor dorian SURE has funky notes in it if we're in the C major landsape. I mean that C# doesnt theoretically work BUT how can we make it work? Can the notes that "dont" work act as an enclosure or a tension note?
Theory says "how.", Playing should challenge that and say "why not?"
Thanks for your comment bro!
Use it to elide into the D above as a passing.
Awesome vid by the way, i am from Pat's neighborhood in south philly
That's cool!! May he RIP
On the II V minor in C. Is it also possible to think it as F dorian on Dmin7b5, and on G7 F Dorian with a maj 7 (or Ab melodic minor) ?
Yes indeed you can!!
This is interesting. Pat Martino had a very reductionist approach and so did Joe Pass (he basically only ever throught maj, min and dominant ...e everything else was just a flavour not note).
Here’s how I think about playing over C7: 1-3-5-b7 are the consonant chord tones. I start by adding in b3, which must always and only resolve upwards to 3, and also b5 (both notes from the Blues scale). Next I add in 2-4-6 all from Mixolydian. So now I have a hybrid Blues scale + Mixolydian for 1-2-b3/3-4-b5-5-6-b7. That’s the 9 “safest” notes. The last 3 notes are b2/b6/7 which can also be used as part of chromatic lines.
So that’s how I use all 12 notes over a Dominant 7 chord without getting trapped into scales. I can think that way (in terms of scales) but I now prefer to classify all 12 notes in terms of how each one of them can function against the current chord quality. Example: I don’t use 3 against a Minor 7 chord, but I do use b3 against a Dominant 7 chord but either immediately resolving upwards to 3 (never going downwards from 3 to b3), or only using b3 but thinking of it as #9.
Why get trapped into scales when the chromatic scale has everything you need?
Brilliant video and like you’re humanity and true and real ..like me so keep going on this vibe ..are you on Patreon ? Johnny from London
Summary:
1. Over C7 can use G minor Dorian
2. Over Cmaj7 can use E minor Dorian or A minor Dorian
3. Over a minor 2-5-1 in C, can use F minor Dorian over both the 2 and 5 chord
12 Tones... 2 or 3 Tones can name or spell out the primary chord with 5 other colors to Raid The Chicken Coop..
Fact! Trumpet players often used minor conversions before Pat mentioned them.
Thats why they sound so good!
Guitar sounds 😢loveley, what guitar is it please ?
An Eastman 580 CE!
Väldigt bra lektion verkligen inget skitsnack!
Fan va kul att höra Sige!! Vad vill du ha för lektion näst?:)
Jag har ganska nyligen börjat spela jazz å så men när det gäller att improvisera ( det kanske låter fjantigt) så är jag typ rädd för att börja försöka. Jag vet att man ska försöka spela vissa toner från ackorden som 7an och 3an men då blir jag överväldigad av att försöka hitta dem. Du kanske skulle kunna prata om hur du började improvisera eller bara allmänt hur man improviserar över ackordbyten!
@@sigeguitar8378 Jag känner igen mig i den känslan! Jättebra videoidéer, ska se vad jag kan skapa de kommande dagarna! Tills dess kan du kika på min senaste vid!! Allt gott!
That’s how I always thought about that. It just was easier and felt more natural, cool video. It was cool to know Pat used similar approach
But what to do over major 2-5-1?
Now THATS a good question.. hahah I'll do a vid on it bro!
You left out learning the Fallopian Harmonic Minor Scale 😅
The fally mally minor b2 scale lol
Chord subs ...🎸👍💎these are some new ones..This was Brilliant.THANKS..Might hit up.on some lessons
Happy to hear bro!!
Hey brother at 3:15 its an A-7b5
as a beginner, this all just hurts my head tbh
HAHAH! It will click after a while
Pat Martino had the ability to play phrases beyond most peoples ability but he was a terrible teacher and talked in hippy waffle that confused everyone including me.
Gotta agree.
F minor 7 - Abmaj 7 ...why does that work again? Is it the relative minor?
Yes indeed sir!
Great explanation. I just wouldn’t play Emin Dorian on Cmaj. That C# will sound off. Instead try Amin Dorian for Lydian sound over CMaj. Also, their are ways to play A Aeolian to sound hip over Cmaj.
I am a huge jazz fan…. And a huge jazz hater. I love the spice but hate the noodles!😂
I tried this.
Lol, it feels like cheating on a test.
I KNOOW!!
I get almost everything you said. but one question professor.
but why (or how) does F Dorian work over G7b9?
F Dorian is F G Ab Bb C D Eb
G7b9 is G Ab B C D E F
why the two different notes dont matter? 🤔🤔
Haha, first time being called a professor!
Ok so imagine the G7 more as an altered chord that resolves to Cm. Then you'll get the b13,b9 and #9 of G7 when using the F dorian.
Remember it's all about resolving, miles davis could play stuff that didnt "work" theoretically but when he resolved the idea, you go aaaaaaaah.
Altered chord video comes tomorrow!! :)
@@Guitarmin98 the more I get to know about music theory, the more I feel scared of getting into this world. jazz players must be very smart. thanks you are so kind 😲
@@user-ld6nz2dp9v It's a process that takes time!! Start with having a student mindset and take in as much as you need to make music and just add stuff along the way!! I'll be here along the way bro!
@@Guitarmin98 Yah, though around 4:45 or so you toss in a few B naturals, so you're actually right back playing G alt or G diminished like the rest of us! ha. Sounds good though!
Cant make myself not play the 3rd of the dominant haha! You’re right:)
What happened to the audio?
I still dont get it...
0:20 I'm sorry, I'm not trying to ruin your video, but jazz has never EVER been about scales. Pat may have studied with scales, but most jazz musicians focus on the chord tones.
Well said!!
Great video but Bbmaj7 isn’t the same as Gm6 it’s Gm9.
Thanks Ralph! You're totally right, should've said Bbmaj7#11 :)
rn im playing grateful dead music. A lot of triads and chords tones. I thought jazz is using triads and chord tones with chromaticism?
Why play different notes or a different scale is it because of the sound? nothing to do with theory?
Magnificent question. A C7 gives you the possibility to play a C mixolydian which personally I dont do since I would think of the C too much. Changing the scale to a G dorian makes me think of the G alot, which is the 5th of C! Now THAT's a chord tone which automatically gets more thought which is a nice hack for jazzlines!
@@Guitarmin98 Thank you for that explanation that actually all made sense. I just realized why i had so much trouble understanding jazz before hahahhahaah.
in rock and blues some of the best solos are just using notes from basic chords being played through out the song.
Jazz requires you to not play those notes while still sound good correct?
is that why playing g dorian over a c7 is a nice sounding thing to do in jazz?
is that a swedish accent i'm hearing
Kanske det kanske!!;)
Everyone makes improv sound like its some magical magicy magic. Its literally learnt vocabulary that u learn to play a bit around with. Incredibly hard to do at a high level, but it aint giving birth to new music on the spot. Not in "that" way anyway.
Do you think that people like Benson for example, can literally play they within ideas on the spot ? like talking ? Even if they kind of can do that, its still bilions of vocabulary already kind of learnt imho.
I totally agree! Sometimes though, it feels like you came up with something unique but the truth is, you probably didnt haha
I totally disagree. Obviously Pat has his own style, but to say he changed things? lol
Just because he play outside doesn´t mean he´s doing something very musical. There is people that did what he does way before his time. And to be fair almost 90% of what he plays lacks
musicality. That´s why most piano and trumpet players are way more musical than the average jazz guitarists, and Pat its just an extreme example of what lacks of musicality looks. Julian Lage is a perfect example of playing outside or being creative but at the same time be super musical. Just because a phrase its hard to understand or doesnt sound familiar, doesnt mean it´s good. People now looks to sound more "outside" and "complex" than actually play music and express something. Meanwhile Julian Lage is playing Bach arpeggios and pentatonics combined with some chromatics (playing with an incredible amount of difficulty) and he´s giving a whole soul to the song itself, not just his improvisation turn.
I see what you're saying! Gonna give Lage a listen now:)
Pat Martino is too deep he doesn't stick to the program he always spaces out talking about the universe and spiritual stuff I have several of his DVDs and have to come back later and try to understand what the heck he is saying. He start out as music theory then space out and talk about the Universe.
I like that! Music is a weird thing and so is the universe lol
First of all, Martino had nothing to do with that book, per Martino. Someone else wrote that book so your premise is already wrong.
Oh ok!
Who thinks 5,000 scales are necessary to play jazz?
Answer:
Nobody.
Dorian? Martino never used that term in his life.
I stopped the video after hearing 2 fallacies in such quick succession.
Thanks for the feedback! I'll look into how I can make my videos better!!
The foul language is offensive.
It’s how I talk. :)