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Matt, i like your content, but your video title is crap. First off the cap bolt are not torque to yield. Second, the inner and outer bolts have different torque specs. Inner is 15 ft lbs + 80 degrees, outers are 15 ft lbs + 51 degrees. You over torqued you’re outer bolts, that’s why it broke. There are no issues reusing stock cap bolts when done correctly.
Wow I completely missed that! Just re-reading the spec sheet and sure enough only 51 degrees on the outers. I didn’t even realize even though the outers on the arp use a lower torque setting. Well goes to show, read twice torque once🤦♂️
Generaly, bolts that are finished with a degree reading for final torque are TTY bolts... not all bolts, but most are. When in doubt, replace. Some manufacturers actually want you to measure the bolt length to determine if they are reusable.
Hey do you guys know how to check plasti guage if I have torque to yield bolts. I don’t want to stretch my new bolts while checking clearances. Is the general practice to use my old bolts to do my clearencing and then do final assembly with new bolts?
Yes I was confused on the torque specs Matt used on the main caps. I am glad Mr. Sandman corrected the torque specs. Having said that I have reused bolts with no issues.
At the shop where I work building LS motors we torque the factory inner main bolts to 60 lb.ft. and the outer bolts to 50 lb. Ft. The ARP main stud is expensive but good insurance in my book. When setting clearance don’t forget to take into consideration that at running temperature the main bores in the aluminum blocks expand .0010” and the iron blocks expand .0005”
Yep .002 is 2 thousandths .003 is 3 thousandths not 20 or 30 thou you wouldnt have any oil pressure and crank would flop all over the place. I like to use dial bore gauge gives exact number.
I polished all my journals in the Ford 300 yesterday. I can't believe you're using a shoe lace. I used a slightly larger piece of rope. Now they have a mirror finish.
Right before you mentioned what happened with the bolt, I noticed that one missing and I made the "yikes" face. At least the thing didn't snap off in the block. Coming together nicely. I'm a little jelly!
Matt you could’ve also just took a paint pen & make a mark on the head of the bolt to the 12 o’clock position if you don’t have an torque wrench with angle
Matt. I finished my bottom end a couple weeks ago. I ended up using summit pro Ls pistons and h beam rods in my 5.3 turbo gto build. Aluminum block. Ended up with .0025 on the rods, .0015 on the mains. Used arp main studs. I did not line hone due to the many experiences by a close buddy of mine never having issues. Just FYI. Hopefully everything goes good with it. Motor is coming out the car this weekend and hopefully new one goes in by next weekend.
As a last resort you can use a protractor for an angle gauge if you don’t have an angle torque gauge. I used the one with the adjustable arm. Of course it’s not ideal but I have done this in the past without any problems.
Did you notice more turning resistance when turning the crank by hand with Lucas assembly lube then using engine oil. I just put mine back together and it feels like it has more resistance. Not sure if it’s the assembly lube.
I have a torque angle gauge but most of the time I just eyeballunless it's a tight spot and I have to use the ratchet then I use my torque angle finder
Need to wash your blocks and cranks even after the machine shop with soapy water (dawn dish soap) even the machine shop will tell you that, I'm not super experienced I've only built a few engines myself and am only 20, but I made sure I knew half way what I was foing before I decided to start building my own engines
Did you “set the thrust” on the center cap? You didn’t mention that. Supposed to lightly tq that cap and smack the crank back and forth with a rubber hammer. Btw. My crank clearance did not change with studs vs bolts. I’m still watching. I’ll see what you end up with.
A guy I worked with "tightened" his main caps, we asked what he torqued them too. He answered "torqued them to? What is that?" So he assembled his motor without a torque wrench and over tightened the mains and burned his crank.
Im going to just say WITHOUT watching the whole video is NEVER REUSE TTY BOLTS. I tuned a truck recently that blew a head gasket due to the "builder" reusing the factory TTY head bolts. 18 degrees of timing (cammed LQ9), slightly rich (just started tuning) and ZERO detonation. SOUNDED LIKE DETONATION due to the compression blowing out between the head and the block. Needless to say, they had to replace EVERYTHING (head gaskets, head bolts, etc). Now she runs GREAT but the fricken thing just failed a MAF so... The saga NEVER ENDS! LOL!
@@jaydubb71 Well that's nice but I do reuse them, have for a good 20 years and don't have any issues. I only change out fastners if they are damaged somehow, TTY or I'm upgrading. Matt would have easily have broken a brand new oem bolt as he simply over-torqued it and broke it...
@@LSswapGarage1 I assembled many a engine back around the 90s that had tty fasteners but I didn't know at the time and never had a problem. They didnt start using them until the bi-metal(iron block,alu head) engines came around. I've assembled my own personal stuff without a torque wrench, don't recommend it for just anyone but guys that have turned wrenches all their life have a pretty good feel for it. Only time I buy a new fastener is for a "built" engine that gets ARP.
I have reused a lot of LS main bolts and never broken one... GM even doesn't consider them a one use item like the head bolts and they are not torque to yield. Your torque method may have been the issue or your wrench is off and yoiu flat out overtorqued them.. or just got the one bad bolt. I have never tried to replicate what 15 ft lbs plus 80 degrees twist is in lb ft but it's probably around 60. Hell I don't think I have even read on a forum in the last 10 years that someone breaks one. Digital torque wrenches that measure in degrees are a lot better than angle gauges lol... I hate those things too. And paying attention the second time yeah the outers are 15 with 51 degrees so maybe 40 lb ft in torque... over torque and they break!
Lmao exactly why I didn’t even second guess reusing them! Its one of those things though, now I don’t know if I’ll be able to trust used ones again....
@@lsXmatt Well I have a 6 liter here we are about to drop the crank back into so I guess I will see what it does with its original unknown fastners. We were going to reuse the head bolts too on this junk but buddy coughed up for new stockers lol.
Matt, i like your content, but your video title is crap. First off the cap bolt are not torque to yield. Second, the inner and outer bolts have different torque specs. Inner is 15 ft lbs + 80 degrees, outers are 15 ft lbs + 51 degrees. You over torqued you’re outer bolts, that’s why it broke. There are no issues reusing stock cap bolts when done correctly.
Wow I completely missed that! Just re-reading the spec sheet and sure enough only 51 degrees on the outers. I didn’t even realize even though the outers on the arp use a lower torque setting. Well goes to show, read twice torque once🤦♂️
Generaly, bolts that are finished with a degree reading for final torque are TTY bolts... not all bolts, but most are. When in doubt, replace. Some manufacturers actually want you to measure the bolt length to determine if they are reusable.
Hey do you guys know how to check plasti guage if I have torque to yield bolts. I don’t want to stretch my new bolts while checking clearances. Is the general practice to use my old bolts to do my clearencing and then do final assembly with new bolts?
Yeah i reuse them a lot 58lbs
Yes I was confused on the torque specs Matt used on the main caps. I am glad Mr. Sandman corrected the torque specs. Having said that I have reused bolts with no issues.
At the shop where I work building LS motors we torque the factory inner main bolts to 60 lb.ft. and the outer bolts to 50 lb. Ft. The ARP main stud is expensive but good insurance in my book. When setting clearance don’t forget to take into consideration that at running temperature the main bores in the aluminum blocks expand .0010” and the iron blocks expand .0005”
Yep .002 is 2 thousandths .003 is 3 thousandths not 20 or 30 thou you wouldnt have any oil pressure and crank would flop all over the place. I like to use dial bore gauge gives exact number.
I was wondering if I was the only one who caught that mistake, Crankshaft Bearing Clearance (Service). 0.020-0.065 mm. 0.0008-0.0025 in
I polished all my journals in the Ford 300 yesterday. I can't believe you're using a shoe lace. I used a slightly larger piece of rope. Now they have a mirror finish.
Right before you mentioned what happened with the bolt, I noticed that one missing and I made the "yikes" face. At least the thing didn't snap off in the block. Coming together nicely. I'm a little jelly!
ARP bolts are not cheap but not having to ever worry about the bolts again is worth it.
Good ole Blue Rhino and the propane heater! LOL!
Matt you could’ve also just took a paint pen & make a mark on the head of the bolt to the 12 o’clock position if you don’t have an torque wrench with angle
Matt. I finished my bottom end a couple weeks ago. I ended up using summit pro Ls pistons and h beam rods in my 5.3 turbo gto build. Aluminum block. Ended up with .0025 on the rods, .0015 on the mains. Used arp main studs. I did not line hone due to the many experiences by a close buddy of mine never having issues. Just FYI. Hopefully everything goes good with it. Motor is coming out the car this weekend and hopefully new one goes in by next weekend.
Lmao yea I’ve heard some stories where sometimes your better leaving it alone then dealing with a botched line hone!
Great video. Curious about the difference you feel in the Camaro once it is installed.
thanks for sharing matt
As a last resort you can use a protractor for an angle gauge if you don’t have an angle torque gauge. I used the one with the adjustable arm. Of course it’s not ideal but I have done this in the past without any problems.
Great tip👍
I like this content, it is very educational to me.
Good stuff. Small note: clearance is two thousandth.( 002) not twenty.
I did the same .. ordered a whole new bolt set from Summit
Hey you should not put oil on bearings when you check clearance.it should be done dry. Just drop in crank and don’t turn it, FYI
Gotta love those expensive oops moments (not really). Lucky the bolt didn't break in the block or FUBAR the threads.
Yea, i just watched another video explaining the tourqe method, stretched a bolt.
20 thou clearance on bearings:) I've a 1909 oil engine that has barely 2 thou clearance!
Did you notice more turning resistance when turning the crank by hand with Lucas assembly lube then using engine oil. I just put mine back together and it feels like it has more resistance. Not sure if it’s the assembly lube.
Yea it feels tighter because the lucas is really sticky.
@@lsXmatt thanks for the response man. Awesome video. And very nice attention to detail.
What brand of torque wrench are you using? I dont think thats what caused the break im just curios if you were using the Harbor Freight one?
Nah I bought a craftsman one when sears was on its way out. It works great.
After the line hone and polish crank did you have do use over sized bearings? Or standard
Nah The standard size were still good. I didn’t do a line hone, just polished the crank a tiny bit.
I have a torque angle gauge but most of the time I just eyeballunless it's a tight spot and I have to use the ratchet then I use my torque angle finder
Need to wash your blocks and cranks even after the machine shop with soapy water (dawn dish soap) even the machine shop will tell you that, I'm not super experienced I've only built a few engines myself and am only 20, but I made sure I knew half way what I was foing before I decided to start building my own engines
Did you “set the thrust” on the center cap? You didn’t mention that. Supposed to lightly tq that cap and smack the crank back and forth with a rubber hammer.
Btw. My crank clearance did not change with studs vs bolts. I’m still watching. I’ll see what you end up with.
Yea I did. I have so much footage, sometimes i miss the little details like that. I wacked it back then forward after I did the initial 15 ft lbs.
I reused the LS head bolts . I use them as a hitch pin on the mower for the garden cart 😆
Make sure on the thrust bearings , the three grooves are facing the rear! Yours are. But you didn’t mention so I wanted to point that out.
I was gonna mention it but realized you can’t really install it backwards due to the positioning of the locating tab.
LsxMatt I installed my caps backwards on the first mockup. 😂
Not gonna lie, I put the smooth ones in the bottom first...
Nice videos.What town are you In?
EVERALD W staten island ny
Mine just did the same 🥲
A guy I worked with "tightened" his main caps, we asked what he torqued them too. He answered "torqued them to? What is that?" So he assembled his motor without a torque wrench and over tightened the mains and burned his crank.
Ouch....
Not 20 thousandths. 2 thousandths. You will have no oil pressure at 20. Just so you know. Sorry for being “that guy”. Lol.
Lmao yea the decimals get me everytime😂
30 thousands and 90 weight gear oil and run 2 big block oil pumps . the old circle track racers trick 👌
Oh yeah, dont reuse those bolts
Arp = re-use 😆
Im going to just say WITHOUT watching the whole video is NEVER REUSE TTY BOLTS. I tuned a truck recently that blew a head gasket due to the "builder" reusing the factory TTY head bolts. 18 degrees of timing (cammed LQ9), slightly rich (just started tuning) and ZERO detonation. SOUNDED LIKE DETONATION due to the compression blowing out between the head and the block. Needless to say, they had to replace EVERYTHING (head gaskets, head bolts, etc). Now she runs GREAT but the fricken thing just failed a MAF so... The saga NEVER ENDS! LOL!
Main bolts are not torque to yield in an LS.
@@LSswapGarage1 I stand corrected. But for the record, I NEVER reuse factory bolts. Ford SBC, Chevy SBC, LS, etc...
@@jaydubb71 Well that's nice but I do reuse them, have for a good 20 years and don't have any issues. I only change out fastners if they are damaged somehow, TTY or I'm upgrading. Matt would have easily have broken a brand new oem bolt as he simply over-torqued it and broke it...
@@LSswapGarage1 I assembled many a engine back around the 90s that had tty fasteners but I didn't know at the time and never had a problem. They didnt start using them until the bi-metal(iron block,alu head) engines came around. I've assembled my own personal stuff without a torque wrench, don't recommend it for just anyone but guys that have turned wrenches all their life have a pretty good feel for it. Only time I buy a new fastener is for a "built" engine that gets ARP.
if you had 30 thousandths that motor would explode with no oil pressure in minutes. lol thats .003 - 3 thousandths lol
I have reused a lot of LS main bolts and never broken one... GM even doesn't consider them a one use item like the head bolts and they are not torque to yield. Your torque method may have been the issue or your wrench is off and yoiu flat out overtorqued them.. or just got the one bad bolt. I have never tried to replicate what 15 ft lbs plus 80 degrees twist is in lb ft but it's probably around 60. Hell I don't think I have even read on a forum in the last 10 years that someone breaks one. Digital torque wrenches that measure in degrees are a lot better than angle gauges lol... I hate those things too. And paying attention the second time yeah the outers are 15 with 51 degrees so maybe 40 lb ft in torque... over torque and they break!
Lmao exactly why I didn’t even second guess reusing them! Its one of those things though, now I don’t know if I’ll be able to trust used ones again....
@@lsXmatt Well I have a 6 liter here we are about to drop the crank back into so I guess I will see what it does with its original unknown fastners. We were going to reuse the head bolts too on this junk but buddy coughed up for new stockers lol.
Over torque
You don't reuse torque to yield bolts
Main bolts are torque to angle, not torque to yield.
One use bolts from GM
Torque to yield - single use bolts.
Main bolts are not TTY
Rod bolts either.
I didn't say they were. But if they were. Either way, they shouldn't have been that easy to break. Since only one broke. It might have been damaged
First
I was wondering if I was the only one who caught that mistake, Crankshaft Bearing Clearance (Service). 0.020-0.065 mm. 0.0008-0.0025 in