Thanks for all the good info on all videos. I have a set of this ported by Xtreme CFM, would have been nice to have had you flowed them and them work on them too, but just got them installed.
Eric, I love your vids. You tell it like it is and people love it. I am the same way but people think I'm an a-hole. I'm one of those pro builders/porters that keeps a low profile. But on this idea, since I never had to deal with this case, but I believe cutting the spring seat .050" you could get away with a shorter valve and get a good seat pressure.
Just wanted to say how much l enjoy your channel. I have no involvement with American engines , but have always been fascinated by performance and tuning .So nice that you are prepared to spend the time share your knowledge with us.
Hello Eric, I enjoy all of your content. I'm glad you're willing to take your time to share your findings and knowledge. If you're still looking for valves, lsxceleration has them. They're around $200 +shipping for intake and $464 +shipping for exhaust. I have a pair of the Mast Motorsports - Factory Mast heads and the casting looks different in the ports. Where they're made, I don't know. The Mast- Black Label is USA made. The Blue Print Engines LS heads do appear to be identical, other than the BPE casting on the side. From what I've gathered, originally, the factory GM LS heads were cast and machined in Mexico and some assembly in the USA. Then in 2012-2013 they started casting in China and machining in Mexico. Somewhere around 2015-2016 they cast, machine, mostly assembled in China, then are inspected with some assembly in Mexico, and have final inspection and assembly in the USA. With all the supposed inspection processes one would think there'd be no problem with the engines, yet the massive lawsuits against GM and their engines, dating from 2007-2022, says otherwise.
I did a 383 stroker using heads made in China sold on Ebay. So far zero problem with then and when bought these are bare heads so everything put into them was U.S made. For Aluminum 202 - 160 values heads and 68 cc chambers they are pretty nice at for 2 and shipping was 360 dollars. My 383 was done for a work truck for towing my 30 foot guide work jet boat and NW Oregon coastal hunting so it isn't a race motor. I used the Eagle 6 inch connecting rods with an Eagle 350-383 crank with all this has made amazing low-end torque using a full roller cam system. I am puttering up and down steep logging roads with this 383 barely feeding it gas unlike the 350s I've been using that need a hard foot on the gas to get up these mountain steep logging roads.
Awesome explanation and brings good memories,our valve head specialist would $#!% himself like what did you bring me now..lol.. my boy got a new aluminum welder(iv heliarcd steelies he had nightmares about)welded & cobbled up pieces of art into masterpieces I'd . Sum of the best #s wr from heads that wr messed up that I got and resurrected, which I assume now wud be because of better atomization(lil secret..like hogging on mine,smoothing on others..lol. but all the runners but the last inch, leaving lil lines of the casting like zebra stripes, filing grooves ect) but remember these wr all blower motors too,forced baby,454s,460s,dam 440 was like the baddest,then unless u had 426hemi,don't even unload off the trailer 😂.that backup/resistance yr talkn bout is why they would go airplane mode when i boosted lil more than suppose too(sorry dad😆 I didn't realize to blow up the other richer people's engines and not yrs,ughh) best part was he'd win by a cars length and every1,even my uncles wr like whats yr secret, but he didn't lie saying he didn't know, because he didn't. He wasn't hanging out for hours and hours of r&d.. but at 1st, I was obligated then I became dedicated 🍻
The one thing i noticed was how clean the casting is. All of it was really smooth, the chamber looked like it was polished compared to the stock heads.
Someone has probably already said it but would love to see the port job on these heads, looks very similar to the Frankenstein m311 head which is their Chinese option that claims 395cfm I believe. Almost hard to believe you can gain so much on an already decent design. Lot of good things going on in your shop man.
Not a Chevy guy . But It's amazing how little I know about porting heads . Thank God I didn't start grinding on my Max Wedge heads . I would have made them junk .
their 11 degree deals an are prob the best china ls heads, they are different casting though from the speedmasters 250,,bpe an such. they are more like the m113 heads. the rpc 257 is the same as a prc.
Another great video Eric on that lse that you're working on when you said the coefficiently fell off at 1 in I'll fix and say you could try shrouding around the vile from 12:00 to 3:00 on the intake but then the chamber of might need some work in it I'd have to lay eyes on it to say what the problem would be for sure but it'll be excellent head to try this on and see if it might make the port more stable do you agree that really sucks about the bio situation not being able to get them keep up the good videos Eric you do excellent work
@@WeingartnerRacing I meant to say destroyed in the combustion chamber of the head around the intake valve from 12:00 to 3:00 but also meant to say I have to wait eyes on the intake run in the head to see if it was something in that it may be turned the airflow at that large of a lift and making a coefficients to go down that he is the way they moved the valve towards the center of a combustion chamber gave you plenty of room to destroyed on the edge around the intake valve it would have been a perfect candidate for that that's what I was trying to say I'll see if I can get at least a 9/16 flow ball between that and explain the wall that's all you know what to do you do excellent work
Eric. Liberty performance is selling these heads assembled for $600 each. They now claim 2.165 and 1.59 valves. Their package comes with 650 lift dual springs. I know that you like to put your own springs and valves in stuff you build but it might be worth the $400 a set to get all 16 valves and a set of springs you can keep around for low buck guys.
I’m surprised you can’t find any valve blanks that you can cut to length and put in the keeper grooves in, nice head though. I would like to build a AWD S10 with the super short bed from a crew cab powered by a 6.2 with a 4.8 crank and a LSA or aftermarket supercharger, so I keep looking at heads, these would probably work good, but that build is behind the four big block buildsI have going now, after a 8.1L, 540, 502, and Pontiac 455 I think wringing our a destroked small block might be fun.
U you may want to start referring to boost on these ls heads about the whole idea of 1” of valve lift, cause I’d imagine it’s way more exaggerated with boost. Cause almost al the ls guys are running eBay turbos, lol.
I think liberty copied mast heads I run profiler heads I got a deal on a dart block with profiler heads already fresher up my buddy sold it too me he is going bbc but my heads have titanium valves and inconel exhaust valves they already been ported and everything like I said I got lucky well not too lucky I still paid a good penny for the setup. I also got his turbo which I think it’s a 107 forced inductions it is supposed to be a 2000 horsepower engine I don’t need all that for the street but yeah I’m rambling but liberty copied mast heads your right on that and love your videos brother god bless and keep up the good work.
Great information about the reason you flow to 1.000" lift. How about flowing two heads (one with a stable port, one without) at the std 28" and 40" to demonstrate how the port backs up sooner?
While 40" might be difficult to achieve, I think the same thing could be done on an older/ bad designed short side at 20", 24", and 28" to illustrate the point. If Erick is correct (and I believe he is), the port that backs up at .800 @ 20" should back up sooner @ 28".
crap I literally just bought a set or ported BPE heads today, without valves, and now I know why. I hope the valves become available over the next year. If you could decide on a valve size what would you run for intake and exhaust valve sizes on this head?
Do you hand port the heads or do you have a cnc program? Building 6.0 stroker (408ci) that will eventually see a blower. Saw a pair of Liberty heads on Marketplace and I'm deciding if I should pull the trigger and get them.
Hi Eric I know this is old but are the valves avaliable yet? I would be interested in having a set ported for my ctsv .I'm looking at prc 260s and tfs 255s and numbers of the lsa ported head.
Hi Eric, thank you for your videos that make head work easy to understand. I am wanting to know if headflow changes if you have the valve seals in or out ??? Cheers !
Have wedge Alu heads CNC ported flows 310cfm with 0585 lift wath can that give me On Real Hors power??? Hopfyly over 600whp??440cui with Nice sixpack setup modifaid noth like The orginal...Wedge Tunnel ram intake...
Question regarding port size: you refer to the cc being smaller on this, how is the cross sectional area? I would expect the shallower valve angle to result in a shorter port, so a smaller port size for the same cross section.
There is a guy in Michigan that sells reworked NASCAR take out titanium valves that he can make them any shorter size they come in and I think he can also resize the head as well? The last time I looked a few years ago he was selling them for a couple hundred bucks for each set needed to do a head. I think the NASCAR stuff is mostly 6mm for the intakes and 7mm for the exhaust. Although he may have 5/16" or 8mm, the previous is more common or used to be a few years ago when I was looking at that stuff. If you're interested I may be able to find him again for you?
I know that dude. In addition to all the titanium stuff he has a wheelstanding Chevy van. He's _Jarvis High Performance Custom Machining_ He works with Cary Chounard some, and is a VERY straight shooter.
@@WeingartnerRacing I have a couple sets of R5/P7 MOPAR used NASCAR heads that have 8mm guides in them so.....? Maybe these heads were used on a different race venue? I think I've seen used 8mm titanium valves on eBay before but I might be mistaken because it has been a few years that I have looked at that stuff?
I purchase these cylinder heads,, do you know if a shaft rockers setup for the OE cylinder head works on this?? (Looking at the Brian Tooley and the comp cams versions that use stock rockers) Isn't the valve spacing different or something??
Would a head that flows better at 1” flow rate work better on a boosted application than a head that flows worse at 1” but the same at actual valve lift? Since boost is a measure of restriction it would be interesting to dyno test two sets of heads back to back with a roots or screw supercharger that can provide the same cfm at the same RPM on both setups but measure the boost and horsepower to see if you get more horsepower at less boost to back up your statements about 1” flow numbers, Richard Holdener might be game to partner up on that test.
Yep, any engine with their best head will be better with boost. Take NA power divide by 14.7 that is 1 atmosphere or bar, multiply by the boost you plan to run and add that to the NA power and that is what hp will be under boost. Thanks Eric, and I enjoy the videos, Even if I am an FE guy, I really hope that aftermarket support continues.
I am curious, why not modify your flow bench to be floating depression? It would make it mimic operating conditions as you describe. Thank you for the video and all you do.
After your bad experience with the seats getting destroyed in one of your customers engines, is there any way that you would still recommend Liberty heads for any application?
Looks like those cheap Liberty/Chinese heads whilst are cheap won’t be cheap by the time you get custom or high end valves for it. What was the casting number of of the stock LS3 head? (821?) Thanks for the informative video 👍🏻🇦🇺
Could you tell me what the typical difference is in cfm at say .600 lift between 5k rpm and 8k rpm on a typical ls3. How much does cfm increase as rpm climbs?
I'm about to pull my LS3 (2011 SS) heads and need them redone when they are off. Seal is leaking . Do you do installs as well as dyno testing cylinder heads ? I'm local in T-town. I was about to buy Mongoose heads but I have 7.400 pushrods. Don't think they are compatible
That’s is not what I said. I said there are many sbc heads that outflow the stock ls3. Pretty much any sbc head over 225cc which is about 40cc and cross sectional area much smaller than the ls3.
Most of those brands are selling the same head from the same supplier. I doubt liberties casting is any different then pro header or rpc, bpe was on of the first big buyers of the China heads for there crate programs wouldn't doubt there the ones who paid for the r&d lol
I would bet a lot of the Merica companies are doing the same thing, hence how many places are having shortages at the same time. They stamp a flag on the box because they did the machine work and port while keeping the customer unaware. There cant be that many foundries doing this type of work I would guess, while there are tons of places that can get a CNC going.
No. Like no way. Even if the valves were touching it would still be 3.755 across them. You might be able to get them to work if you notched the bores but why would you? These heads are also huge for a small bore and there is no way they will flow the same with a 3.8 bore plate.
Buyer beware about Liberty Castings....QC is horrible. I've personally had to trash a set because the cooling passages were plugged with casting flash and prevented any water flow through one head, my motor got to 270 degrees 5 times before I pulled em off to check different things. You can port the flash off intake and exhaust, you CANNOT port inside the castings where water flows. Just my .01
@@Ws6Ms March 2020. I hope to god theyve gotten better given what companies charge for em under their name....but I will not find out, and I'm unfortunately not the only person whos had bad experiences with liberty.
Today the Chines parts can be far better, America has tried foolishly enough to compete on price and I'm pretty sure that someone in China making the same amount of money is far better payed. 😄
You have to have the longer stems to get the correct installed height for springs. The spring pad is raised up from stock so stock valves wouldn’t work with a .400lift cam.
@Eric Weingartner I understand that , it was a separate concern. I am building a 6.0 bored out to a 6 2 with a 4.8 crank.. I'm researching g heads and it concerns me having to use so much longer , plus Chinese valves on an engine Turing in excess of 11,000 RPM. BUT YOUR ALSO BASING OFF .400 LIFT. MY TRUCK HAS A .550 LIFT ERSON CAM . AND THATS FOR TOW TORQUE. I'll have to do more research to see if these heads are capable of what I need.. Thank You
The wording is weird. Every time you say Mast copied the Chinese head. But you must really mean to say Chinese head is a copy of the Mast head. Just weird. Were you ever a used car salesman? 😆
Great info on port stability. I learn something valuable from most of the videos you post. Good stuff. 👍
I'm glad you watched.
Thankyou so much for your videos it’s crazy how much you know about this craft, so knowledgeable, I appreciate your help!
Thanks for watching.
Thanks for all the good info on all videos. I have a set of this ported by Xtreme CFM, would have been nice to have had you flowed them and them work on them too, but just got them installed.
Nice explanation of why you flow heads to 1'' valve lift. Good video as usual. Thanks for passing on your knowledge.
Thanks for watching.
Eric, I love your vids. You tell it like it is and people love it. I am the same way but people think I'm an a-hole. I'm one of those pro builders/porters that keeps a low profile. But on this idea, since I never had to deal with this case, but I believe cutting the spring seat .050" you could get away with a shorter valve and get a good seat pressure.
Yet another informative and thought provoking vid. Thanks , Eric!
Thank you
Just wanted to say how much l enjoy your channel. I have no involvement with American engines , but have always been fascinated by performance and tuning .So nice that you are prepared to spend the time share your knowledge with us.
Thanks for watching.
I'm also a new subscriber and huge fan.
This great content.
Thanks for subscribing.
Hello Eric, I enjoy all of your content. I'm glad you're willing to take your time to share your findings and knowledge.
If you're still looking for valves, lsxceleration has them. They're around $200 +shipping for intake and $464 +shipping for exhaust.
I have a pair of the Mast Motorsports - Factory Mast heads and the casting looks different in the ports. Where they're made, I don't know. The Mast- Black Label is USA made. The Blue Print Engines LS heads do appear to be identical, other than the BPE casting on the side.
From what I've gathered, originally, the factory GM LS heads were cast and machined in Mexico and some assembly in the USA. Then in 2012-2013 they started casting in China and machining in Mexico. Somewhere around 2015-2016 they cast, machine, mostly assembled in China, then are inspected with some assembly in Mexico, and have final inspection and assembly in the USA. With all the supposed inspection processes one would think there'd be no problem with the engines, yet the massive lawsuits against GM and their engines, dating from 2007-2022, says otherwise.
Thanks I order some and will see if they work.
Always good info.
Being an LS guy, those look like they would work well when ported on an aggressive 408 with the intake valve moved over to help with shrouding.
They should.
That's exactly what I'm doing. I've been looking for a cheap head with the valve moved. I'm ordering these heads now lol.
I have this same head from RPC and used LIberty hard parts. Can’t wait to test them on the dyno.
It should be good.
I see Boost potential , very nice casting . cheers! and thanks ! Knowledge is a bit like " been there done that " know what works now!
thanks for watching
Hi Eric, those heads look very much like the ls7 heads with the chamber shape, intake swirl thing in the bowl, valve 12 degree angle etc
They look similar.
I'll be watching to see if you do any work to these heads, I have a pair for my next project.
I will not be porting this set right now. Maybe another set some time.
Best episode ever. The port stability description confirmed my short side theory. Cheers
Thanks for watching.
Love those spring pockets. You have to change Ls rockers anyway if you run a real cam... just like a sb or anything else. Nice review.
Thanks for watching.
I'm Glad you made this Video was bout to pull.tje trigger on bare bpe heads now I think I'll hold off.
If you can get them.
I did a 383 stroker using heads made in China sold on Ebay.
So far zero problem with then and when bought these are bare heads so everything put into them was U.S made.
For Aluminum 202 - 160 values heads and 68 cc chambers they are pretty nice at for 2 and shipping was 360 dollars.
My 383 was done for a work truck for towing my 30 foot guide work jet boat and NW Oregon coastal hunting so it isn't a race motor.
I used the Eagle 6 inch connecting rods with an Eagle 350-383 crank with all this has made amazing low-end torque using a full roller cam system.
I am puttering up and down steep logging roads with this 383 barely feeding it gas unlike the 350s I've been using that need a hard foot on the gas to get up these mountain steep logging roads.
Awesome explanation and brings good memories,our valve head specialist would $#!% himself like what did you bring me now..lol.. my boy got a new aluminum welder(iv heliarcd steelies he had nightmares about)welded & cobbled up pieces of art into masterpieces I'd . Sum of the best #s wr from heads that wr messed up that I got and resurrected, which I assume now wud be because of better atomization(lil secret..like hogging on mine,smoothing on others..lol. but all the runners but the last inch, leaving lil lines of the casting like zebra stripes, filing grooves ect) but remember these wr all blower motors too,forced baby,454s,460s,dam 440 was like the baddest,then unless u had 426hemi,don't even unload off the trailer 😂.that backup/resistance yr talkn bout is why they would go airplane mode when i boosted lil more than suppose too(sorry dad😆 I didn't realize to blow up the other richer people's engines and not yrs,ughh) best part was he'd win by a cars length and every1,even my uncles wr like whats yr secret, but he didn't lie saying he didn't know, because he didn't. He wasn't hanging out for hours and hours of r&d.. but at 1st, I was obligated then I became dedicated 🍻
Mexico is a very good guess on stock LS3 heads.
The one thing i noticed was how clean the casting is. All of it was really smooth, the chamber looked like it was polished compared to the stock heads.
Yes it is .
I have a set of these, and that's very apparent in your hands too.
@@SCwrestlerTTSBhow much power you making?
Someone has probably already said it but would love to see the port job on these heads, looks very similar to the Frankenstein m311 head which is their Chinese option that claims 395cfm I believe. Almost hard to believe you can gain so much on an already decent design. Lot of good things going on in your shop man.
I highly doubt they would even flow close to 395 cfm.
I will not to get to port this set. Maybe next time.
FED uses liberty castings.
@@rustysausage69 they do ????
Not a Chevy guy . But It's amazing how little I know about porting heads . Thank God I didn't start grinding on my Max Wedge heads . I would have made them junk .
Its best to start with junk to destroy.
their 11 degree deals an are prob the best china ls heads, they are different casting though from the speedmasters 250,,bpe an such. they are more like the m113 heads. the rpc 257 is the same as a prc.
Another great video Eric on that lse that you're working on when you said the coefficiently fell off at 1 in I'll fix and say you could try shrouding around the vile from 12:00 to 3:00 on the intake but then the chamber of might need some work in it I'd have to lay eyes on it to say what the problem would be for sure but it'll be excellent head to try this on and see if it might make the port more stable do you agree that really sucks about the bio situation not being able to get them keep up the good videos Eric you do excellent work
Im not sure what you are saying.
@@WeingartnerRacing I meant to say destroyed in the combustion chamber of the head around the intake valve from 12:00 to 3:00 but also meant to say I have to wait eyes on the intake run in the head to see if it was something in that it may be turned the airflow at that large of a lift and making a coefficients to go down that he is the way they moved the valve towards the center of a combustion chamber gave you plenty of room to destroyed on the edge around the intake valve it would have been a perfect candidate for that that's what I was trying to say I'll see if I can get at least a 9/16 flow ball between that and explain the wall that's all you know what to do you do excellent work
Eric. Liberty performance is selling these heads assembled for $600 each. They now claim 2.165 and 1.59 valves. Their package comes with 650 lift dual springs. I know that you like to put your own springs and valves in stuff you build but it might be worth the $400 a set to get all 16 valves and a set of springs you can keep around for low buck guys.
That is the price to dealers we have to raise the price to make a profit on them. However, they don't have any intake valves right now.
I can understand the frustration. Not sure how many times youve explained the 1” lift now 🙃😁
Yep it will still come up though.
I’m surprised you can’t find any valve blanks that you can cut to length and put in the keeper grooves in, nice head though. I would like to build a AWD S10 with the super short bed from a crew cab powered by a 6.2 with a 4.8 crank and a LSA or aftermarket supercharger, so I keep looking at heads, these would probably work good, but that build is behind the four big block buildsI have going now, after a 8.1L, 540, 502, and Pontiac 455 I think wringing our a destroked small block might be fun.
I wish there was a blank to cut to use.
U you may want to start referring to boost on these ls heads about the whole idea of 1” of valve lift, cause I’d imagine it’s way more exaggerated with boost. Cause almost al the ls guys are running eBay turbos, lol.
I think liberty copied mast heads I run profiler heads I got a deal on a dart block with profiler heads already fresher up my buddy sold it too me he is going bbc but my heads have titanium valves and inconel exhaust valves they already been ported and everything like I said I got lucky well not too lucky I still paid a good penny for the setup. I also got his turbo which I think it’s a 107 forced inductions it is supposed to be a 2000 horsepower engine I don’t need all that for the street but yeah I’m rambling but liberty copied mast heads your right on that and love your videos brother god bless and keep up the good work.
I havent't test Profiler LS heads yet.
Great information about the reason you flow to 1.000" lift. How about flowing two heads (one with a stable port, one without) at the std 28" and 40" to demonstrate how the port backs up sooner?
While 40" might be difficult to achieve, I think the same thing could be done on an older/ bad designed short side at 20", 24", and 28" to illustrate the point. If Erick is correct (and I believe he is), the port that backs up at .800 @ 20" should back up sooner @ 28".
I might try that eventually if I can get the right head to do that. The Saenz bench has no problem flowing at 40inches of vacuum.
crap I literally just bought a set or ported BPE heads today, without valves, and now I know why. I hope the valves become available over the next year. If you could decide on a valve size what would you run for intake and exhaust valve sizes on this head?
Eric has had to explain that so many times, I think he has finally hit laymen's terms, but no doubt somebody will bring it up again.
Yep its going to happen.
Do you hand port the heads or do you have a cnc program? Building 6.0 stroker (408ci) that will eventually see a blower. Saw a pair of Liberty heads on Marketplace and I'm deciding if I should pull the trigger and get them.
Hi Eric I know this is old but are the valves avaliable yet? I would be interested in having a set ported for my ctsv .I'm looking at prc 260s and tfs 255s and numbers of the lsa ported head.
What would you guess if you had to that you could get out of these heads if you port them? P.s. thanks for the videos
How do you find unstable ports in the cylinder heads without the intake manifold being installed
What kind of rocker pedestal do these heads take? I tried using stock ls3 rocker pedestal and the bolt holes don’t line up?
Hi Eric, thank you for your videos that make head work easy to understand. I am wanting to know if headflow changes if you have the valve seals in or out ??? Cheers !
It doesn’t change. At least not more than a cfm.
Yes, LS3 heads are made in Mexico as are 799s
Have wedge Alu heads CNC ported flows 310cfm with 0585 lift wath can that give me On Real Hors power??? Hopfyly over 600whp??440cui with Nice sixpack setup modifaid noth like The orginal...Wedge Tunnel ram intake...
being Chinese really curious of which way these head can be purchase
Question regarding port size: you refer to the cc being smaller on this, how is the cross sectional area? I would expect the shallower valve angle to result in a shorter port, so a smaller port size for the same cross section.
Its smaller.
Hi Eric. What is "L/D"? I've seen this column on a few other guys who flow heads but i'm not exactly sure what it is.
There is a guy in Michigan that sells reworked NASCAR take out titanium valves that he can make them any shorter size they come in and I think he can also resize the head as well?
The last time I looked a few years ago he was selling them for a couple hundred bucks for each set needed to do a head. I think the NASCAR stuff is mostly 6mm for the intakes and 7mm for the exhaust. Although he may have 5/16" or 8mm, the previous is more common or used to be a few years ago when I was looking at that stuff.
If you're interested I may be able to find him again for you?
Nascar to my knowledge never ran 8mm stem valves.
I know that dude. In addition to all the titanium stuff he has a wheelstanding Chevy van.
He's _Jarvis High Performance Custom Machining_ He works with Cary Chounard some, and is a VERY straight shooter.
@@WeingartnerRacing
I have a couple sets of R5/P7 MOPAR used NASCAR heads that have 8mm guides in them so.....? Maybe these heads were used on a different race venue?
I think I've seen used 8mm titanium valves on eBay before but I might be mistaken because it has been a few years that I have looked at that stuff?
@@ToddWright2
Yeah, that's the guy! Thanks, my CRS memory wasn't letting me remember that.
I could be wrong but doesn’t titanium have a shelf life? I’ve always been told that anyway.
The Liberty heads almost look like the valve would be touching?
I purchase these cylinder heads,, do you know if a shaft rockers setup for the OE cylinder head works on this?? (Looking at the Brian Tooley and the comp cams versions that use stock rockers) Isn't the valve spacing different or something??
I think you can use stock shafts but you have to use liberty stands.
Any way you can measure to see if they take offset or regular ls3 valve rocker stands?
I will try.
do you have any information on the liberty 225 heads?
Eric Weingartner, do they make .050 offset valve keepers to make up the difference or are they already being figured in?
That will not help enough.
would it be eaiser to use the shorter valve and have someone make custom valve springs? for proper install height and seat pressure
Custom valve springs are insanely high.
Eric Weingartner, what software do you use on your computer? Does Superflow offer this or did you get it somewhere else?
I use Performance Trends Software. It doesn't come with the bench when you buy it.
You obviously have not seen the Heads the make in Australia, Duggan is just 1 of a few.
Would a head that flows better at 1” flow rate work better on a boosted application than a head that flows worse at 1” but the same at actual valve lift? Since boost is a measure of restriction it would be interesting to dyno test two sets of heads back to back with a roots or screw supercharger that can provide the same cfm at the same RPM on both setups but measure the boost and horsepower to see if you get more horsepower at less boost to back up your statements about 1” flow numbers, Richard Holdener might be game to partner up on that test.
Usually if a head is better NA it is also better with boost. I have tried to work with RIchard but I think he is busier than me.
Yep, any engine with their best head will be better with boost. Take NA power divide by 14.7 that is 1 atmosphere or bar, multiply by the boost you plan to run and add that to the NA power and that is what hp will be under boost. Thanks Eric, and I enjoy the videos, Even if I am an FE guy, I really hope that aftermarket support continues.
Ls guys...gonna have to put more boost to the old flowbench...
I am curious, why not modify your flow bench to be floating depression? It would make it mimic operating conditions as you describe.
Thank you for the video and all you do.
Time and cost right now.
@@WeingartnerRacing I understand
After your bad experience with the seats getting destroyed in one of your customers engines, is there any way that you would still recommend Liberty heads for any application?
Don’t use them with solid rollers. Evidently the seats can’t take the pressure.
Think these are the same as the at racing heads?
Looks like those cheap Liberty/Chinese heads whilst are cheap won’t be cheap by the time you get custom or high end valves for it.
What was the casting number of of the stock LS3 head? (821?)
Thanks for the informative video 👍🏻🇦🇺
823
@@WeingartnerRacing is the any difference in the 823 and 821 chambers and runner sizes? Thanks from 🇦🇺
What length valves do the BPE heads use? I’m guessing they stuck with 8mm.
It doesn't matter they didn't have any in stock either.
All LS valve stems are 8mm?? Didn't know that!! Thank you.
I think so. Even late model 3800 buick have 8mm stems and use ls retainers and keepers. I think all factory ls heads have 8mm stem
All factory ones are. Most aftermarket as well.
Looking into purchasing some ls3 heads for my 6.0 turbo setup. What brand would you recommend?
AFR if you can afford it.
You described a supply problem not a problem with the head at all. All that drama for nothing 🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️😂😂😂😂😂
It’s a major problem if you can’t put the heads together.
@@WeingartnerRacing have you tried Xyldyne valves??
Could you tell me what the typical difference is in cfm at say .600 lift between 5k rpm and 8k rpm on a typical ls3. How much does cfm increase as rpm climbs?
An intake valve....
It would take some math but you could calculate demand. However thats calculated not actual.
I mean what do you think off hand.....25 more cfm per 1k rpm? Or you think it is more pronounced then that?
I'm about to pull my LS3 (2011 SS) heads and need them redone when they are off. Seal is leaking . Do you do installs as well as dyno testing cylinder heads ? I'm local in T-town. I was about to buy Mongoose heads but I have 7.400 pushrods. Don't think they are compatible
There is no dyno test for cylinder heads that I am aware of. I can flow it on the flowbench. I don't install heads on engines.
@@WeingartnerRacing ok thanks !
Roughly what is the cost to port them with the customer supplying the heads? Thanks
$1100
What stock small block Chevy heads outflow an ls3 head?
That’s is not what I said. I said there are many sbc heads that outflow the stock ls3. Pretty much any sbc head over 225cc which is about 40cc and cross sectional area much smaller than the ls3.
I’m building a lm7 with 317 heads do you think this will be good for street and strip. I’m looking st going nitros what do you think yes or no
It will be fine.
What does the Liberty head use for rockers?
They sell a shaft rocker setup.
AFR offers a long 2.165 valve for their 260cc LS3 head that might work in the Liberty heads.
That’s what I used to flow. It’s too short
Is this still a problem?
They make +/-.050 valve locks. Are those available?
It takes more than that.
Most of those brands are selling the same head from the same supplier. I doubt liberties casting is any different then pro header or rpc, bpe was on of the first big buyers of the China heads for there crate programs wouldn't doubt there the ones who paid for the r&d lol
The proheader head I saw was not this head.
I would bet a lot of the Merica companies are doing the same thing, hence how many places are having shortages at the same time. They stamp a flag on the box because they did the machine work and port while keeping the customer unaware. There cant be that many foundries doing this type of work I would guess, while there are tons of places that can get a CNC going.
Factory LS3 head unnecessarily big in the port, explains some LS3 combos that don't quite do what's expected/hoped for.
very likely.
And many big and high rpm combos do way more than expected.
Anywhere to buy the valves yet?
Yes, from promax
Since the valves are closer together would you be able to run them on a 5.3 bore?
No. Like no way.
Even if the valves were touching it would still be 3.755 across them. You might be able to get them to work if you notched the bores but why would you? These heads are also huge for a small bore and there is no way they will flow the same with a 3.8 bore plate.
He is right there is no room.
They would still be too short with lash caps?
Lash caps will not increase installed height. They must be longer from face to lock groove.
@@WeingartnerRacing ahh I’m an idiot 😂 I remember you saying it now
I was reading somewhere that these heads aren't sold to the public, any truth to that?
That is true you have to buy them from dealers like myself.
Well real race motors run 1 in plus all the time
Exactly.
Buyer beware about Liberty Castings....QC is horrible. I've personally had to trash a set because the cooling passages were plugged with casting flash and prevented any water flow through one head, my motor got to 270 degrees 5 times before I pulled em off to check different things. You can port the flash off intake and exhaust, you CANNOT port inside the castings where water flows. Just my .01
oh wow... how long ago was this ?
@@Ws6Ms March 2020. I hope to god theyve gotten better given what companies charge for em under their name....but I will not find out, and I'm unfortunately not the only person whos had bad experiences with liberty.
Do they offer a small bore option? Fir us us 3.900 bore guys…
not yet
I have a set of Liberty as cast 225s with 2.02/1.60 valves.
I need to send them to Eric
Maybe, I'll call him tomorrow.
Mexico is correct for most LS heads, Canada for some and the LSA, LS9 heads?who knows?
What's the best ls7 in your opinion
All pro are pretty nice.
@@WeingartnerRacing because I always hear about mast and Frankenstein
I can do custom valves
I love American V8 as much as anyone but how come you never talk about DOHC stuff? Or like 4 cylinder stuff? Just not your forte?
Its not my thing. The only v-8 that had them are ford and they are too small. The other engines seem like a lot of work to try to compete with a v-8.
I know plenty of people with OVER "1.00 Lift
But Most of my Friends run N/A combo's
The Good People.
@@WeingartnerRacing LOL!
Where to buy
Me
Well then lol
yep.
lol there is cheap. Then there iare LS guys.
nothings cheap. that heads was very inexpensive from gm 10 years and doubled the prices
So he never tells where to get it. Lol
Yes me.
You never mention what LS 3 head that is. If it’s an 862 they suck compared to the 823 which are the better LS3 heads.
It was 823
Today the Chines parts can be far better, America has tried foolishly enough to compete on price and I'm pretty sure that someone in China making the same amount of money is far better payed. 😄
Aren't you worried about stem flex at high RPM due to excessive stem length?
You have to have the longer stems to get the correct installed height for springs. The spring pad is raised up from stock so stock valves wouldn’t work with a .400lift cam.
@Eric Weingartner I understand that , it was a separate concern. I am building a 6.0 bored out to a 6 2 with a 4.8 crank.. I'm researching g heads and it concerns me having to use so much longer , plus Chinese valves on an engine Turing in excess of 11,000 RPM. BUT YOUR ALSO BASING OFF .400 LIFT. MY TRUCK HAS A .550 LIFT ERSON CAM . AND THATS FOR TOW TORQUE. I'll have to do more research to see if these heads are capable of what I need.. Thank You
The wording is weird. Every time you say Mast copied the Chinese head. But you must really mean to say Chinese head is a copy of the Mast head. Just weird. Were you ever a used car salesman? 😆