This is so pithy! I just read Systems Thinking For Curious Managers and Differences That Make A Difference. It is wild how succinct he is. Thanks you so much, Phyllis for sharing this!
The difficulty here is defining what the right thing is to do. If you take a look at Multiple Constituency Theory of effectiveness, you'll see that multiple 'perspectives' on 'right' exist. This relates to what Ulrich, Midgley and Jackson call boundary critique in Critical Systems Thinking, where we deliberately reflect on the assumptions and judgements that frame the situation and form boundaries. Building on Second Order cybernetics view that how we frame the situation can predetermine the problems we see and the solutions we prescribe. This connects to Wicked Problems in Planning by Webber and Rittel 1973, where the dispute (and activism) is over control of how to frame the situation, structure the problem and solutions. Because framing is fundamentally a ethical dilemma.
see now THIS is an example of where you need to build up and use WISDOM.. not fall into getting stuck in data analysis methods (although they can be useful to help us see possible models and solutions) sometimes wisdom is just putting all that down and going outside and looking at the world and doing things to enjoy our time here while we can the "right thing" is subjective..Ackoff never said there was a absolute one of a kind "right thing" to do.. if you listen to all his kectures he repeatedly made that point that there IS no one right answer, to anything, and that it's good to think outside the box (1010 solutions to the 9 dot problem, when his daughter had been told by a teacher there is only one solution for example) it's like some people think the "right thing" for breakfast is porridge but some people feel it's better to have nothing yes it's difficult to "define" what the right thing is.. but that's where the wisdom comes in (he never said you'd get the right RESULTS or the best results, from doing the "right thing".. but i think you are nit picking at a general philosophical concept without regard for the overall picture of his entire method
on reflection it's to do with deciding YOUR objectives you may feel later that they were wrong but doing the "right thing" could just be as simple as TRYING to do the steps needed TO TRY to make your objectives happen but that is part of a dynamic system, so is subject to change and effects of feedback loops on decision making through time
🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation: 00:00 📚 *Human data hierarchy: data, information, knowledge, understanding, and wisdom. Wisdom is about effectiveness.* 01:07 🤔 *Doing the right thing (wisdom) is more important than doing things right (efficiency).* 02:40 💊 *Healthcare system focuses on sickness and disability, not health.* 04:03 📚 *Traditional education is about teaching, not learning.* 08:43 💰 *Neglecting wealth distribution is a central problem causing social unrest and global inequality.* Made with HARPA AI
Thank you INDEED for this interview - A very wise person Prof. Ackoff. This is an incredible and very interesting stuff and miles ahead of what (unfortunately) the world is currently. I have a very few 'guru' (maybe three in total) and Mr. Ackoff is part of them - what a Genius Thinking! Thanks again! A
Good to listen to one of the pioneers of system thinking going back to eary 1950's.Wonder why it took almost a decade to get published on you tube after the interview in 2001?
Thank you for for your comment. It didn't take long. I originally put the interview on Google which then went away ..so I uploaded it to UA-cam. Please subscribe to my channel phyllis haynes
I will continue to look for the entire interview. The section that is up is the most relevant for today. I will look for the rest of it, but it is in an incompatible format which will require some difficult transferring. I will come back to you if and when I am able to access the rest.
It's easy to see why his point of view is not the dominant one. It's a serious threat to the status quo, to every business manager and bureaucrat who depends on his nonsense position to make the payments on his BMW and his mcmansion in a gated subdivision. It's a threat to every professional making the same by covering made up 'needs' and every politician making bank on made up fears and to every union boss with his retirement tied up in adversarial labor relations.
What a shame that this video has been on UA-cam for over 3 years, and it only has 8,784 views. I suppose people are just not ready to hear what he had to say.
Dear Sir or Madam I am an undergraduate of East European University of Economics and Management (Ukraine). During my studying I have been interested in Russell L. Ackoff’ s works. I should be grateful if you would send me contacts of those who carry out such researches or who follow Russell L. Ackoff’s trend. I appreciate your kind reply in advance. I am looking forward to your answer. Yours Faithfully, Mr. Jaba Jolokhava
If you are still interested in studying Russell Ackoff's work, please let me know. I have posted other videos of him speaking. That is one place you can start... my UA-cam channel
This is so pithy! I just read Systems Thinking For Curious Managers and Differences That Make A Difference. It is wild how succinct he is. Thanks you so much, Phyllis for sharing this!
Very good - great to have Ackoff on record - for all of us to listen to. Thank you.
Nice summary of the great insights Prof. Ackoff found along his career :)
2:22 - 3:38 insights about the health care system or "sickness & disability centres" was mindblowing
The difficulty here is defining what the right thing is to do. If you take a look at Multiple Constituency Theory of effectiveness, you'll see that multiple 'perspectives' on 'right' exist. This relates to what Ulrich, Midgley and Jackson call boundary critique in Critical Systems Thinking, where we deliberately reflect on the assumptions and judgements that frame the situation and form boundaries. Building on Second Order cybernetics view that how we frame the situation can predetermine the problems we see and the solutions we prescribe. This connects to Wicked Problems in Planning by Webber and Rittel 1973, where the dispute (and activism) is over control of how to frame the situation, structure the problem and solutions. Because framing is fundamentally a ethical dilemma.
This is intriguing.
Where to learn more about such work on finding/deciding "the right thing"?
Where/What do you recommend as a starting point?
see now THIS is an example of where you need to build up and use WISDOM.. not fall into getting stuck in data analysis methods (although they can be useful to help us see possible models and solutions)
sometimes wisdom is just putting all that down and going outside and looking at the world and doing things to enjoy our time here while we can
the "right thing" is subjective..Ackoff never said there was a absolute one of a kind "right thing" to do.. if you listen to all his kectures he repeatedly made that point that there IS no one right answer, to anything, and that it's good to think outside the box (1010 solutions to the 9 dot problem, when his daughter had been told by a teacher there is only one solution for example)
it's like some people think the "right thing" for breakfast is porridge but some people feel it's better to have nothing
yes it's difficult to "define" what the right thing is.. but that's where the wisdom comes in (he never said you'd get the right RESULTS or the best results, from doing the "right thing".. but i think you are nit picking at a general philosophical concept without regard for the overall picture of his entire method
@@badrahi would imagine looking at the people they referenced in their comment would be a good starting point!!!???
on reflection it's to do with deciding YOUR objectives
you may feel later that they were wrong
but doing the "right thing" could just be as simple as TRYING to do the steps needed TO TRY to make your objectives happen
but that is part of a dynamic system, so is subject to change and effects of feedback loops on decision making through time
Nothing short of a prophet in the field of Systems Thinking
Thanks for posting this interview- in 10 minutes he solved something I've been trying to get my head around for 3 weeks.
Today would have been Russ's 94th birthday. Thank you for this video, which is making the rounds of Twitter and Facebook today. :)
🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation:
00:00 📚 *Human data hierarchy: data, information, knowledge, understanding, and wisdom. Wisdom is about effectiveness.*
01:07 🤔 *Doing the right thing (wisdom) is more important than doing things right (efficiency).*
02:40 💊 *Healthcare system focuses on sickness and disability, not health.*
04:03 📚 *Traditional education is about teaching, not learning.*
08:43 💰 *Neglecting wealth distribution is a central problem causing social unrest and global inequality.*
Made with HARPA AI
Thank you INDEED for this interview - A very wise person Prof. Ackoff. This is an incredible and very interesting stuff and miles ahead of what (unfortunately) the world is currently.
I have a very few 'guru' (maybe three in total) and Mr. Ackoff is part of them - what a Genius Thinking!
Thanks again!
A
@apothekede If Russell Ackoff is one of the three, I'd love to learn who the other two are :)
About the mistakes we can learn!!!! so I understand that it is very important that this kind of video is more publicized, at this time of COVID 19
Good to listen to one of the pioneers of system thinking going back to eary 1950's.Wonder why it took almost a decade to get published on you tube after the interview in 2001?
I'm pretty sure UA-cam did not exist in 2001.. call me stupid if you want but I'm pretty sure that's a bit of a reason it was not posted then
@SteveBrant55 Thank you for your commrnts. I learned so much from my interview and time
with Russell Ackoff.
Would it be possible to see the rest of the tape?
Where's the rest?
A strategic overview of how to deal with organisational challenges using the systems holistic approach
Thank you for for your comment. It didn't take long. I originally put the interview
on Google which then went away ..so I uploaded it to UA-cam.
Please subscribe to my channel phyllis haynes
Wisdom beyond measure.
Brilliant!!!
is the full interview available to watch please? this is extremely useful to hear thankyou to all involved in making and posting it
I will continue to look for the entire interview. The section that is up is the most relevant for today. I will look for the rest of it, but it is in an incompatible format which will require some difficult transferring. I will come back to you if and when I am able to access the rest.
It's easy to see why his point of view is not the dominant one. It's a serious threat to the status quo, to every business manager and bureaucrat who depends on his nonsense position to make the payments on his BMW and his mcmansion in a gated subdivision. It's a threat to every professional making the same by covering made up 'needs' and every politician making bank on made up fears and to every union boss with his retirement tied up in adversarial labor relations.
Great info!!!!
What a shame that this video has been on UA-cam for over 3 years, and it only has 8,784 views. I suppose people are just not ready to hear what he had to say.
9 years now, not getting better...
Almost 27,000 views now!!!
Dear Sir or Madam
I am an undergraduate of East European University of Economics and Management (Ukraine). During my studying I have been interested in Russell L. Ackoff’ s works. I should be grateful if you would send me contacts of those who carry out such researches or who follow Russell L. Ackoff’s trend.
I appreciate your kind reply in advance.
I am looking forward to your answer.
Yours Faithfully,
Mr. Jaba Jolokhava
If you are still interested in studying Russell Ackoff's work, please let me know. I have posted other videos of him speaking. That is one place you can start... my UA-cam channel
The truth told! Can we learn from it? Or will it pass unrecorded, to some people's benefit?
Contrast with the WIKiD Tools Algorithm (2009). Similar except 5 order differential equation: System for The Monetization of Social Capitalism
I am in ore.
book = tem-pah
A strategic overview of how to deal with organisational challenges using the systems holistic approach