Nice video! I think it was a case of Chrysler wanting to protect Jeep. I think Chrysler should have made it anyhow. I think the key thing that they needed to learn was how to properly badge engineer vehicles and reach a specific market. Dodge needed to be more entry level priced and Jeep needed to be more premium.
I’d have to agree with you. More than likely they figured they could charge a higher dollar for a vehicle with a Jeep badge rather than one with a Dodge badge. At the end of it all I believe that’s what it came down to. I wish they would’ve made it! Thanks for watching and commenting! Subscribe for more Jeep history every Wednesday, follow my 86 Wag project - Garrett Secret prototypes & history playlist: ua-cam.com/play/PLL-HJjKvWes65Jm3hfelNpSykWPCJYfCO.html&si=CTP2rAj8c9dHk4Mc
As someone who worked there back then, the ZJ was a problematic platform in the beginning, mostly due to its past Renault design issues carried over from AMC. We were actually surprised that they continued it so many years later. We had seen early pictures of the ZJ as early as 1984 and it was touted as the first Renault/Jeep. I think Chrysler was striving hard to get as much as they could from the AMC/Jeep Eagle buy out and scrapping another design that was on the table at Jeep would have meant the whole buy out only really won them the brand name. They were trying to get as much return on their investment as they could. By the time the ZJ hit the dealer showrooms, much of the original content from AMC was gone and it was at least partly a Mopar at heart, in a Renault designed body. What should have happed was that Chrysler should have taken the Durango and produced the new Grand Wagoneer from that vs. the eventual shoehorning of the 5.2L into the ZJ or dealing with the teething issues the cross of Chrysler tech and Renault tech was having. By the time 1998 came around, there wasn't much of the original ZJ remaining, but they had also already put the Durango into production. Making a "Jeep" clone as a Dodge would integrate the Jeep brand too much as just another Chrysler clone brand, but upscaling a Dodge, maybe with a new front clip and an inline six option would have better served the brand as a true XJ replacement. (Dodge had already been planning a mid sized 'Durango' as early as 1988, there were square body style mock ups early on. They even made it into a few preliminary manuals). Whether they felt the platform was flawed in the earlier body style, or maybe they didn't want to dilute sales of the full size Ramcharger, but it never made it to production. It may also have been that the ongoing purchase of Jeep at the same time offered them a vehicle to push into production faster and cheaper by way of the ZJ. They never really said but I'm sure in the beginning years of the ZJ, they were likely regretting not leaving that one on the drawing board. They would have done better to rebadge a Cherokee as a Durango sales wise but I'm sure they realized that would only cut down on Jeep sales, and the Cherokee was already a 10 year old platform at the point when the first ZJ hit the market, and the Cherokee was not capable of accepting the existing Mopar engines, which would have been sort of required to market the model as a Mopar. (Dodge buyers likely wouldn't have wanted to buy a 'DODGE' with an AMC engine in it). In hindsite, Dodge would have been better off not buying out AMC, it set the ball rolling for their eventual failure and buyout by Daimler 10 years later. They never really gained back what they spent for AMC, and I think they got more problems than they did benefits. Jeep would have eventually been bought up by another brand and AMC would have faded away either way, and we possibly would still have three major American car manufacturers. There were other buyers for Jeep, but not for Renault/AMC Jeep as a whole. Everyone wanted Jeep, no one wanted AMC, and certainly no one wanted Renault or their involvement, or the debt. Chrysler had hoped that buying Jeep would strengthen both brands, while it saved Jeep, it saddled Chrysler with a ton of debt that would take decades to truly recover from. At the time when Chrysler bought Jeep, they were only 10 years off of what was almost their own bankruptcy when the US Government bailed them out. In reality, they just about recovered from that and they jumped right back into the fire again buying a failing brand worse off then they were back in 1978. At the very least, at the point of buyout, they should have purged the brand of all Renault influence, dropping the Premier and ZJ platforms and used what they had already had developed. Renault never understood the American market or American roads, their vehicles didn't hold up well here and most weren't very well received by the buying public.Slapping a new badge on one and calling it an American car didn't solve anything, and letting Renault, who owned 46% of AMC influence your other models was a flat out disaster from day one. AMC couldn't afford to engineer their own modern control systems, which was one of the main reasons for the Renault merger, but Renault was so far behind the times and committed to a flawed system they too were in trouble. In the end it was just a dying company grasping at anything they could to stay afloat and patching the leaks with bubble gum to keep from sinking. Why Dodge never brought the next generation Ramcharger to the US, I'll never know but Ford did the same thing with the full size B100 that they sold in Mexico and south America, all while Americans were screaming for a Suburban alternative all those years. Chrysler should have taken the tried and true Grand Wagoneer and reworked it and brought it into the 90's with some improvements, dropping the Mopar 5.2 and 5.9 into it would have done wonders for its reliability and EPA standards. It already used a Mopar trans, so swapping that out for the 46RE would have been easy, and the same with the axles. The model had a huge following and they were selling as many as they could build, powering it with a higher production number power train would have lowered costs and allowed them to reintroduce a few lesser models as well, making that the perfect sister vehicle to the Ramsharger. The ZJ should have never happened, and the Cherokee should have had a Dodge clone, even if they had to build it with a Dodge motor, and the Jeep GW should have continued into the late 90's till a suitable replacement could be worked up.
I understand why you are saying all of this. But remember, the Eagle Premier prompted Chrysler to develop the LH cars(a completely new platform). A Dodge version of the Grand Cherokee could have served as a low cost alternative to the Durango(it would have been offered only with the inline six since the Durango only had V8s). A Jeep Comanche based off of the Dakota would have been fine with me. Dodge could right now offer a new fullsize SUV based on the current Wagoneer/Grand Wagoneer (it couldn't be called Ramcharger because that name is being used for a Ram EV pickup).
Were you with Chrysler in the late 1980's? I was a participant in a consumer design evaluation (in Boston, MA) likely in '88 or '89. I can expand on this - but I saw an exterior styling mock-up and an interior buck of the ZJ. BUT what was also there was a larger, nearly finished Chrysler designed (I presume) SUV prototype. Along side of and clearly larger than the ZJ, it had a neat aggressive front end design with vertical "teeth" (not unlike the '50 Buick) that were the grille and extended down into the front bumper. I never saw a photo of it. In a magazine article much later I heard of this referred to as "Project Rambo". Might you be familiar with this? I've always assumed that Chrysler was working on this when they acquired AMC and therefore the in-progress ZJ.
I don't remember a Rambo but do remember some talk about using the Lambo as the basis for a Dodge and Jeep version but that never got past pictures and drawings as far as I knew. They had one when we went for the new Viper training and demo at Chelsea. There was also talk of it using an iron version of the mopar V10 vs the 5.2L V12. In the end they only made about 80 of them the first year and likely didn't do more than maybe 300 or so in all and none hit the showrooms with Dodge or Jeep badges. They did go so far as include a Dodge badged Lambo in the 1989 New Model Preview manuals that were supplied to us along with a copy of every last manual for all models for the upcoming year. (They would basically hand every one two or three cases of manuals and a large envelope with the new model intro manuals in it every fall). That stopped by 1991 though and they expected all training to be done by VHS tape and with only one seasonal trip to MI. The original Concept 1 or ZJ wasn't really a whole new vehicle but more or less a body rework of the original Cherokee. It rolled on the same chassis but gained a Renault inspired or designed dash and controls, but with inline six from the CJ and a few Renault engines slated as possible options as well. The 4.0L wasn't around yet, it was still only the old 258, and the Cherokee was still powered by the miserable GM 2.8L V6 or new 2.5L I4 which replaced the GM I4 in 1984. I started in PA, got moved to AL, and back to PA near the end. They were working on a new AMC training facility near Mobile when Chrysler took over. A month later it was all scrapped. They closed up training facilities one by one leaving training up to the individual techs and their willingness to watch video tapes and take short tests that no one would ever see on their own time at home. Those techs who said they didn't own a VCR were given a $10 incentive to buy one and a coupon for a play only Panasonic deck that sold for $19.99. Most just ignored it all and training became mostly non existent. As a trouble shooter, and training tech, I gave up and left after they kept cutting back hours and expenses, even refusing to pay for our travel expenses in the end. They were no longer going to supply us with a vehicle, then balked when we didn't buy or show up driving a Jeep or Mopar. I showed up driving a new Ford truck one day, when they told me that wasn't acceptable, meaning that they were expecting me to call on their dealers driving my own vehicle, I just got up, got in my new truck and left and never looked back. Lot of guys then were near retirement age so they just called it quits too and were never replaced. The real kicker was that they failed to honor any retirement plans those guys had with AMC. They went out with nothing. I think the pensions and such had a lot to do with how they handled the shut down of the old AMC facilities and the merger. It was done more as a purchase of assets not a merger. Those working for AMC were basically told that 'Some of you will find jobs at Chrysler, the others won't', and they systematically drove all the old guys out either by eliminating their job or making it impossible for them to stay. One guy I worked with, who was in his late 50's with a family and wife, was told he was being transferred to Alabama. They were not going to pay for his move. Not knowing anything else he made the move himself, found a place down there and moved the family over a 6 mo. period. 11 months later they dropped the whole project and he was stuck there with no job.They new full well that the project was going to be dropped, they had already ended funding for the AMC plans, but promised several guys a place at a 'new' Chrysler facility that never got beyond blue prints and some half wooded swamp land.
@@VB-bk1lh There was a rumor that Lamborghini was getting a version of the Grand Cherokee to replace the LM002. It never got past the idea stage. Someone did make a drawing of a possible Lamborghini "Grand Cherokee" that I saw in a car magazine but that's all I saw.
Two words that are the reason why they should have built this: Ford Explorer. This would have been a perfect mass volume mid-size suv, that could focus a bit more on being the family holler with some decent off-road capabilities, which would have put it right on par with the Ford offering. Meanwhile, the Grand Cherokee could have been positioned as more of an upper crust, Land Rover type off-roader that focused more on being a premium off-road oriented vehicle.
Definitely! I couldn’t have said it better myself. I think they didn’t make it based on the fact they knew they could charger more of a higher, premium price tag for a Jeep compared to a Dodge product. However I must say, it is interesting how they did not make this, but a short few years later, came out with the Durango. Despite it being built on the Dakota platform and not the Grand Cherokee platform, this was a solid offering for the market. Especially for the Ford Explorer. Thanks for watching and commenting! Subscribe for more Jeep history every Wednesday, follow my 86 Wag project - Garrett Secret prototypes & history playlist: ua-cam.com/play/PLL-HJjKvWes65Jm3hfelNpSykWPCJYfCO.html&si=CTP2rAj8c9dHk4Mc
The Chevy S-10 Blazer & GM's Huge marketing campaign & its spokesperson THEE Michael Jordan brought a lot of attention to the compact suv market which was in its infancy in 1983. Remember back then, GM was by FAR THEE world's biggest automaker & they had more money than GOD! But the introductions of the 1990 Ford Explorer & '93 Grand Cherokee sent shockwaves throughout the automotive world that are still being felt today. These vehicles started the suv craze. Anyway, I'll try to make a long story short (too late). It was Chryslers' full intention for the Grand Cherokee to gradually & completely replace the XJ Cherokee (yes, the boxy late 20th century downsized compact) with the Grand Cherokee. But a funny thing happened along that road. People who walked into a Jeep dealership who couldn't afford the Grand Cherokee, were walking out with the XJ Cherokee. XJ Cherokee's sales went through the roof, much to the shock and awe of Chrysler exec's. They didn't see that coming! And the Grand Cherokee's sales were so good Chrysler said Dodge doesn't need a rebadged Grandie. We'll keep it in the Jeep family, thank you very much. 😎😎😎 And as far as the original Grand Wagoneer goes, it, and probably the Dodge RamCharger, were discontinued because they were gas guzzling behemoths (albeit Beautiful behemoths) & the gas crisis of the First Gulf War was probably the last nail in the coffin for both suv's. During the 90's, Chrysler tried REAL HARD to bring an updated full size suv to market but the concepts just couldn't meet Chrysler's, & probably federal (corporate average) fuel requirements, so that project was scrapped. 😥😢
VERY interesting. Thanks so much for sharing. You ought to make a video explaining all of this. Good stuff! I’ve heard that the Grand Cherokee was eventually supposed to replace the XJ Cherokee. It’s pretty cool they continued to produce the XJ while coming out with the Grand Cherokee. I feel as if that’s not something you hear of commonly. A replacement vehicle running alongside its soon to be predecessor. Thanks for watching and commenting! Subscribe for more Jeep history every Wednesday, follow my 86 Wag project - Garrett Secret prototypes & history playlist: ua-cam.com/play/PLL-HJjKvWes65Jm3hfelNpSykWPCJYfCO.html&si=CTP2rAj8c9dHk4Mc
@@wagonworks803 You're Very Welcome. Loyal XJ Cherokee owners were Very upset with Mercedes when they replaced the XJ with the Liberty. I LOVE Jeeps, but that's one of the ugliest suv's I've ever seen! My neighbor had one and she couldn't wait to get rid of it!! The XJ's are Still HIGHLY sought after in the ChicagoLand/NorthWest Indiana region. Even the beat-up ones don't stay on FB MarketPlace very long!!
@@wagonworks803 The Dodge Shadow/Plymouth Sundance duo were supposed to replace the Dodge Omni/Plymouth Horizons. But Omni/Horizon sales were so brisk Iacocca let them march on for like 3+ more years so Chrysler could at least recoup their research and development costs into said Omni's. I've been told it takes an average of 10 years. Which would explain why the Ford Tempo/Mercury Topaz duo didn't make money. They just weren't in showrooms long enough.
Great video! I read somewhere that Lee Iacocca had presented the ZJ designs(or possibly XJC designs at the time) to both Jeep and Dodge teams to create their prototypes. After reviewing each, Chrysler decided to let Jeep go into production with it. Another interesting history of the ZJ is that it was designed by one of the influential and iconic designers Larry Shinoda, more famously known for designing the Corvette Stingray and the Mustang Boss. When he submitted his design to AMC however. they didn't like it at all, and never paid him. He was later surprised when he saw his design on the Grand Cherokee revealed at the Detroit Auto Show. When he approached Chrysler for compensation, they refused which led to a legal battle that lasted years. He eventually won, but unfortunately the payment came after his passing.
Thanks so much for your comment and for watching! I’ve heard that name before… it’s a HUGE shame he never got the credit he deserved for his work. You ought to make a video explaining all of this, it would be a slam dunk hit! Subscribe for more Jeep history every Wednesday @ 7pm and follow my 86 Wagoneer project! - Garrett / Sla Automotive Art
Haha that’s funny to hear. I’ve had one person comment one time, “THIS IS AN AI rOboT… do NOT BE FOOLED”. Sheesh lol. I enjoy putting these videos together, scripting and reading them myself. Thanks for watching and commenting! Subscribe for more Jeep history every Wednesday, follow my 86 Wag project - Garrett, Wagon Works 86 Secret prototypes & history playlist: ua-cam.com/play/PLL-HJjKvWes65Jm3hfelNpSykWPCJYfCO.html&si=CTP2rAj8c9dHk4Mc
They'd have probably done well with it, but the Jeep brand allows them to bring in a bit of a premium and the Jeep branding. I don't think a Dodge variant would have done too much eating into the Jeep numbers, at least based on Durango data I can find online. Best I can gather, Jeep made just over 1.2 million ZJ for the 1993-1998 model years, so averaged out to about 240,000/year. Durango on the other hand, from 2005-2023 they only managed to sell 1,028,037 Durangos (so second gen and third gen). I can't find any first gen numbers. So it took Dodge 18 years to come close to the amount of ZJs sold in just over 5 years. The WJ did 1.4 million, the WK, even during the recession and high gas moved 682,310 units, and WK2 the last gen they just finished moved 1,980,284 units. So TLDR? The Grand Cherokee and the Jeep brand were worth the investment 1000%
I agree with what you’re saying. They have always been able to charger more for the Jeep badge on their vehicles as opposed to a dodge badge. The Jeep Grand Cherokee was definitely worth the investment. Today’s Durango that came out in 2011, has some very aggressive styling for a SUV, being not a Jeep, has lower a lot lower sales than a Grand Cherokee. You couldn’t have said it better yourself! Thanks for watching and commenting! Subscribe for more Jeep history every Wednesday, follow my 86 Wag project - Garrett Secret prototypes & history playlist: ua-cam.com/play/PLL-HJjKvWes65Jm3hfelNpSykWPCJYfCO.html&si=CTP2rAj8c9dHk4Mc
I worked in the Brampton assembly plant where the Charger, 300, Intrepid, were made. One day they provided DODGE stick-ons to "instantly" change the current cars to Dodges that would be sold at Dodge dealerships.
REALLY! … now that is interesting. How long ago was this? Thanks for watching and commenting! Subscribe for more Jeep history everyday Wednesday @ 7pm and follow my 86 Wagoneer project on the channel! - Garrett / Sla Automotive Art
!984 to 1990. They just "produced" the stickers (called Appliques), and said use them to changes some of the cars to Dodges, so they could be sold in Dodge dealers. I still have some of those DODGE stickers in my tool box.
Welcome, welcome 👍 Thanks for watching and commenting! I hope you enjoyed the video 😆 Subscribe for more Jeep history every Wednesday, follow my 86 Wag project - Garrett Secret prototypes & history playlist: ua-cam.com/play/PLL-HJjKvWes65Jm3hfelNpSykWPCJYfCO.html&si=CTP2rAj8c9dHk4Mc
Ultimately, the Grand Cherokee ZJ was supposed to replace the aging Jeep Grand Wagoneer. Some of the reasons why it was cancelled, was because of its awful fuel economy, high gas prices did not do any good for the Grand Wagoneer. As well as the US Government making airbags a requirement for vehicles built after 1991. The overall basic structure and bones of the Grand Wagoneer was designed in the late 1950’s and early 60’s. Giving the Wagoneer/ Grand Wagoneer fresh updates to keep it modern throughout the years. By the time 1991 had rolled around with higher gas prices and an aging architecture, along with a few other reasons, the Grand Wagoneer would require a major revamp not worth investing just because of how old it was. Ultimately, with the Grand Cherokee ZJ, new design, smaller than the old Grand Wagoneer, better on gas and with airbags and meeting all new safety vehicle regulations, the Grand Cherokee was supposed to be a replacement for the Grand Wagoneer. Check out this video here: “WHY THE GRAND WAGONEER WAS CANCELLED” ua-cam.com/video/ugY-QuXRUTM/v-deo.htmlsi=MEE6mAPlm6xdzdJG Thanks for watching and commenting! Subscribe for more Jeep history every Wednesday, follow my 86 Wag project - Garrett Secret prototypes & history playlist: ua-cam.com/play/PLL-HJjKvWes65Jm3hfelNpSykWPCJYfCO.html&si=CTP2rAj8c9dHk4Mc
Thanks for watching and commenting! Super glad to hear you enjoyed. Subscribe for more Jeep history every Wednesday, follow my 86 Wag project - Garrett Secret prototypes & history playlist: ua-cam.com/play/PLL-HJjKvWes65Jm3hfelNpSykWPCJYfCO.html&si=CTP2rAj8c9dHk4Mc
I don't know what the fuss was about Chrysler accomplished. You had the Grand Cherokee, if you wanted the third rear seat you bought a Durango. Really similar
Wish they made them! Thanks for watching and commenting! Subscribe for more Jeep history every Wednesday, follow my 86 Wag project - Garrett Secret prototypes & history playlist: ua-cam.com/play/PLL-HJjKvWes65Jm3hfelNpSykWPCJYfCO.html&si=CTP2rAj8c9dHk4Mc
I swear on my life, I also remember seeing early concept sketches that originally had AMC logos on it as well. Similar to the original Cherokee, which was also made under them. Anyone else happen to come across these? It’s virtually identical to the Dodge prototype too, with the only difference being the grille!
I have yet to see these concepts with AMC logos. I’ll have to do some digging around. Thanks for bringing this up. Very interesting!!! Thanks for watching and commenting! Subscribe for more Jeep history every Wednesday, follow my 86 Wag project - Garrett Secret prototypes & history playlist: ua-cam.com/play/PLL-HJjKvWes65Jm3hfelNpSykWPCJYfCO.html&si=CTP2rAj8c9dHk4Mc
I’m telling ya, it would’ve fit right into Dodge’s lineup! What they would have called it, is a mystery. Maybe the Durango or a baby RamCharger lol, idk. Thanks for watching and commenting! Subscribe for more Jeep history every Wednesday, follow my 86 Wag project - Garrett Secret prototypes & history playlist: ua-cam.com/play/PLL-HJjKvWes65Jm3hfelNpSykWPCJYfCO.html&si=CTP2rAj8c9dHk4Mc
Will the concept one was definitely apart from anything that AMC bill for Chrysler continued to build the problem that I can see with it is it looks a lot like the Japanese competitors and everyone must understand in those days the Japanese four-wheel drive SUVs well they looked cheap and very much like a tin box. Even in the 90s they spent time trying to shake that look. Victoria says the designs that were left by AMC were very solid and so by the time you get to 90 is you can argue that it looked relatively 80s particularly on the smaller body Jeeps, it still was beefier than any of the foreign competition I mean it just looks a lot better.
Pretty cool, very interesting info. Thanks for watching and commenting! Subscribe for more Jeep history every Wednesday, follow my 86 Wag project - Garrett Secret prototypes & history playlist: ua-cam.com/play/PLL-HJjKvWes65Jm3hfelNpSykWPCJYfCO.html&si=CTP2rAj8c9dHk4Mc
It’s too bad they didn’t build this dodge, I think the price point would have been lower than the grand Cherokee just like you said. Thanks for the sub, every Wednesday at 7pm I have a new Jeep history video or project Wagoneer update video, stay tuned! Thanks again for watching. - Garrett/ Sla Automotive Art
This was a great video and I never knew and it would have been a great offering and it would have been cheaper than base model Grand Cherokee,but folks are Chrysler probably felt a Dodge model ZJ would take sales away from the Dodge version
What I think had happened was, they started selling their new Grand Cherokee ZJ and saw how big of a success it was… thinking the Dodge ZJ was no longer needed. Especially as they can charge a higher, premium price tag for a Jeep product compared to a Dodge product. Thanks for watching and commenting! Subscribe for more Jeep history every Wednesday, follow my 86 Wag project - Garrett Secret prototypes & history playlist: ua-cam.com/play/PLL-HJjKvWes65Jm3hfelNpSykWPCJYfCO.html&si=CTP2rAj8c9dHk4Mc
Thanks for watching and commenting! Subscribe for more Jeep history every Wednesday, follow my 86 Wag project - Garrett Secret prototypes & history playlist: ua-cam.com/play/PLL-HJjKvWes65Jm3hfelNpSykWPCJYfCO.html&si=CTP2rAj8c9dHk4Mc
It was a crazy lineup once upon a time! Unfortunately not these days. Thanks for watching! Subscribe for more Jeep history videos like this follow my 86 Wagoneer project on the channel! - Garrett / Sla Automotive Art
Same idea, yes. It’s too had they never put these into production! Thanks for watching and commenting! Subscribe for more Jeep history every Wednesday, follow my 86 Wag project - Garrett Secret prototypes & history playlist: ua-cam.com/play/PLL-HJjKvWes65Jm3hfelNpSykWPCJYfCO.html&si=CTP2rAj8c9dHk4Mc
I’d have to agree with you! Now that I look at it, it’s got some Japanese/ maybe Korean flare to it. Just a tad bit there. I know they were working with Mitsubishi around that same time… Thanks for watching and commenting! Subscribe for more Jeep history every Wednesday, follow my 86 Wag project - Garrett Secret prototypes & history playlist: ua-cam.com/play/PLL-HJjKvWes65Jm3hfelNpSykWPCJYfCO.html&si=CTP2rAj8c9dHk4Mc
When it comes to “rebadged engineering” I’d say GM is definitely king. Most of the time they know how to do it, and do it well. I wish they would have made this Dodge ZJ. Personally I like the design, I think it looks different enough, from the Grand Cherokee ZJ. Thanks for watching and commenting! Subscribe for more Jeep history every Wednesday, follow my 86 Wag project - Garrett Secret prototypes & history playlist: ua-cam.com/play/PLL-HJjKvWes65Jm3hfelNpSykWPCJYfCO.html&si=CTP2rAj8c9dHk4Mc
Yeah! I remember the ol Dodge Nitro and Jeep Liberty twins. Haven’t heard those names in awhile! Thanks for watching and commenting! Subscribe for more Jeep history every Wednesday, follow my 86 Wag project - Garrett Secret prototypes & history playlist: ua-cam.com/play/PLL-HJjKvWes65Jm3hfelNpSykWPCJYfCO.html&si=CTP2rAj8c9dHk4Mc
I think it had to do with the restructuring at chrysler after the k era , they were trying to differentiate and monderize chrysler with certain design themes, and i beleve the durango was the conclusion as the second gen dakota would have been in development and sharing chassis with the dakota makes since in that context. During this time chrysler had an identity crisis as all k cars per basically the same and since the amc purchase chrysler ended up with mulitple dealer networks, jeep-eagle d dodge and chrysler- plymouth (the eventally combined all a couple years later as the jeep divison was jeep-eagle after the amc purchase. The lh cars neons all the 90s stuff was supposed to be a breakaway from cookie cutter chrysler to something more akin to when the were the engineers company. So this dodge zj just wasnt the right thing. Now if u want an interesting story- the chrysler concorde was supposed to have been the low buck Plymouth varient of the lh cars. As chrysler was working on giving them a full lineup of cheap cars was put with chrysler for somereason tho as chrysler was looking to move that brand up market(the chrysler brand) just look at all the prototype lh cars badged as chryslers most were decked to the 9s.
Personally I think this Dodge ZJ would’ve fit right into their Dodge portfolio. Just a few years later coming out with the Durango, it’s like… really? That’s cool, glad they did but hey, the Dodge ZJ would’ve been cool too. I’m not exactly sure on the dimensions in the Jeep and Dodge ZJ was bigger or smaller than the Durango, I think smaller. It’s all very interesting to me how they chose to create the Dodge ZJ, using the Jeep ZJ platform and then a few years later come out with the Durango using the Dakota platform. I wonder why they went with the Dakota platform and not went back to the idea of using the latest Grand Cherokee platform. Now a days the Durango is built off the Grand Cherokee WK platform. Very interesting about the Chrysler Concorde… will have to do some research on all of that. Thanks for watching and commenting! Subscribe for more Jeep history every Wednesday, follow my 86 Wag project - Garrett Secret prototypes & history playlist: ua-cam.com/play/PLL-HJjKvWes65Jm3hfelNpSykWPCJYfCO.html&si=CTP2rAj8c9dHk4Mc
@@wagonworks803 i think it was personally due to servicability as around this time early mid 90s you had ur chrysler plymouth dealers, your dodge chrysler or jeep eagle dealer typically. and i think it had to do with servicablity same reason gmc was sold through oldsmobile pontiac dealers up til the mid 60s as in the 50s gmc used pontiac v8s for light duty and olds for heavy duty trucks. its all a different structure
That’s true, the Jeep brand could charge more of a premium, higher price tag as opposed to a Dodge branded vehicle. And perhaps the plant where they needed to build the Dodge ZJ along with the Grand Cherokee, wouldn’t be large enough. Thanks for watching and commenting! Subscribe for more Jeep history every Wednesday, follow my 86 Wag project - Garrett Secret prototypes & history playlist: ua-cam.com/play/PLL-HJjKvWes65Jm3hfelNpSykWPCJYfCO.html&si=CTP2rAj8c9dHk4Mc
Agreed, it was ahead of it's time with it's loads of tech and car like manners. Old is gold! Thanks for watching and commenting! Subscribe for Wagoneer Wednesday's @ 7pm and follow my 1986 Grand Wagoneer project! - Garrett / Sla Automotive Art
Perhaps some capital could’ve been an issue when it came to producing these. Sadly, we’ll probably get to know the full, true story why the company never gave the green light. I wish they would’ve made it! Thanks for watching and commenting! Subscribe for more Jeep history every Wednesday, follow my 86 Wag project - Garrett Secret prototypes & history playlist: ua-cam.com/play/PLL-HJjKvWes65Jm3hfelNpSykWPCJYfCO.html&si=CTP2rAj8c9dHk4Mc
Viper saved Hotrods.
The Viper forever has a special place in my heart. There's nothing quite like that machine
Nice video! I think it was a case of Chrysler wanting to protect Jeep. I think Chrysler should have made it anyhow. I think the key thing that they needed to learn was how to properly badge engineer vehicles and reach a specific market. Dodge needed to be more entry level priced and Jeep needed to be more premium.
I’d have to agree with you. More than likely they figured they could charge a higher dollar for a vehicle with a Jeep badge rather than one with a Dodge badge. At the end of it all I believe that’s what it came down to. I wish they would’ve made it! Thanks for watching and commenting! Subscribe for more Jeep history every Wednesday, follow my 86 Wag project
- Garrett
Secret prototypes & history playlist: ua-cam.com/play/PLL-HJjKvWes65Jm3hfelNpSykWPCJYfCO.html&si=CTP2rAj8c9dHk4Mc
As someone who worked there back then, the ZJ was a problematic platform in the beginning, mostly due to its past Renault design issues carried over from AMC.
We were actually surprised that they continued it so many years later.
We had seen early pictures of the ZJ as early as 1984 and it was touted as the first Renault/Jeep. I think Chrysler was striving hard to get as much as they could from the AMC/Jeep Eagle buy out and scrapping another design that was on the table at Jeep would have meant the whole buy out only really won them the brand name. They were trying to get as much return on their investment as they could. By the time the ZJ hit the dealer showrooms, much of the original content from AMC was gone and it was at least partly a Mopar at heart, in a Renault designed body.
What should have happed was that Chrysler should have taken the Durango and produced the new Grand Wagoneer from that vs. the eventual shoehorning of the 5.2L into the ZJ or dealing with the teething issues the cross of Chrysler tech and Renault tech was having.
By the time 1998 came around, there wasn't much of the original ZJ remaining, but they had also already put the Durango into production.
Making a "Jeep" clone as a Dodge would integrate the Jeep brand too much as just another Chrysler clone brand, but upscaling a Dodge, maybe with a new front clip and an inline six option would have better served the brand as a true XJ replacement.
(Dodge had already been planning a mid sized 'Durango' as early as 1988, there were square body style mock ups early on. They even made it into a few preliminary manuals). Whether they felt the platform was flawed in the earlier body style, or maybe they didn't want to dilute sales of the full size Ramcharger, but it never made it to production. It may also have been that the ongoing purchase of Jeep at the same time offered them a vehicle to push into production faster and cheaper by way of the ZJ. They never really said but I'm sure in the beginning years of the ZJ, they were likely regretting not leaving that one on the drawing board.
They would have done better to rebadge a Cherokee as a Durango sales wise but I'm sure they realized that would only cut down on Jeep sales, and the Cherokee was already a 10 year old platform at the point when the first ZJ hit the market, and the Cherokee was not capable of accepting the existing Mopar engines, which would have been sort of required to market the model as a Mopar. (Dodge buyers likely wouldn't have wanted to buy a 'DODGE' with an AMC engine in it).
In hindsite, Dodge would have been better off not buying out AMC, it set the ball rolling for their eventual failure and buyout by Daimler 10 years later. They never really gained back what they spent for AMC, and I think they got more problems than they did benefits.
Jeep would have eventually been bought up by another brand and AMC would have faded away either way, and we possibly would still have three major American car manufacturers.
There were other buyers for Jeep, but not for Renault/AMC Jeep as a whole. Everyone wanted Jeep, no one wanted AMC, and certainly no one wanted Renault or their involvement, or the debt. Chrysler had hoped that buying Jeep would strengthen both brands, while it saved Jeep, it saddled Chrysler with a ton of debt that would take decades to truly recover from. At the time when Chrysler bought Jeep, they were only 10 years off of what was almost their own bankruptcy when the US Government bailed them out. In reality, they just about recovered from that and they jumped right back into the fire again buying a failing brand worse off then they were back in 1978.
At the very least, at the point of buyout, they should have purged the brand of all Renault influence, dropping the Premier and ZJ platforms and used what they had already had developed. Renault never understood the American market or American roads, their vehicles didn't hold up well here and most weren't very well received by the buying public.Slapping a new badge on one and calling it an American car didn't solve anything, and letting Renault, who owned 46% of AMC influence your other models was a flat out disaster from day one. AMC couldn't afford to engineer their own modern control systems, which was one of the main reasons for the Renault merger, but Renault was so far behind the times and committed to a flawed system they too were in trouble.
In the end it was just a dying company grasping at anything they could to stay afloat and patching the leaks with bubble gum to keep from sinking.
Why Dodge never brought the next generation Ramcharger to the US, I'll never know but Ford did the same thing with the full size B100 that they sold in Mexico and south America, all while Americans were screaming for a Suburban alternative all those years.
Chrysler should have taken the tried and true Grand Wagoneer and reworked it and brought it into the 90's with some improvements, dropping the Mopar 5.2 and 5.9 into it would have done wonders for its reliability and EPA standards. It already used a Mopar trans, so swapping that out for the 46RE would have been easy, and the same with the axles. The model had a huge following and they were selling as many as they could build, powering it with a higher production number power train would have lowered costs and allowed them to reintroduce a few lesser models as well, making that the perfect sister vehicle to the Ramsharger. The ZJ should have never happened, and the Cherokee should have had a Dodge clone, even if they had to build it with a Dodge motor, and the Jeep GW should have continued into the late 90's till a suitable replacement could be worked up.
I understand why you are saying all of this. But remember, the Eagle Premier prompted Chrysler to develop the LH cars(a completely new platform). A Dodge version of the Grand Cherokee could have served as a low cost alternative to the Durango(it would have been offered only with the inline six since the Durango only had V8s). A Jeep Comanche based off of the Dakota would have been fine with me. Dodge could right now offer a new fullsize SUV based on the current Wagoneer/Grand Wagoneer (it couldn't be called Ramcharger because that name is being used for a Ram EV pickup).
Were you with Chrysler in the late 1980's? I was a participant in a consumer design evaluation (in Boston, MA) likely in '88 or '89. I can expand on this - but I saw an exterior styling mock-up and an interior buck of the ZJ. BUT what was also there was a larger, nearly finished Chrysler designed (I presume) SUV prototype. Along side of and clearly larger than the ZJ, it had a neat aggressive front end design with vertical "teeth" (not unlike the '50 Buick) that were the grille and extended down into the front bumper. I never saw a photo of it. In a magazine article much later I heard of this referred to as "Project Rambo". Might you be familiar with this? I've always assumed that Chrysler was working on this when they acquired AMC and therefore the in-progress ZJ.
@@JS.436 The ZJ was being worked on before Chrysler bought AMC. The Dodge version was probably talked about after the purchase of AMC.
I don't remember a Rambo but do remember some talk about using the Lambo as the basis for a Dodge and Jeep version but that never got past pictures and drawings as far as I knew. They had one when we went for the new Viper training and demo at Chelsea. There was also talk of it using an iron version of the mopar V10 vs the 5.2L V12.
In the end they only made about 80 of them the first year and likely didn't do more than maybe 300 or so in all and none hit the showrooms with Dodge or Jeep badges.
They did go so far as include a Dodge badged Lambo in the 1989 New Model Preview manuals that were supplied to us along with a copy of every last manual for all models for the upcoming year. (They would basically hand every one two or three cases of manuals and a large envelope with the new model intro manuals in it every fall).
That stopped by 1991 though and they expected all training to be done by VHS tape and with only one seasonal trip to MI.
The original Concept 1 or ZJ wasn't really a whole new vehicle but more or less a body rework of the original Cherokee. It rolled on the same chassis but gained a Renault inspired or designed dash and controls, but with inline six from the CJ and a few Renault engines slated as possible options as well. The 4.0L wasn't around yet, it was still only the old 258, and the Cherokee was still powered by the miserable GM 2.8L V6 or new 2.5L I4 which replaced the GM I4 in 1984.
I started in PA, got moved to AL, and back to PA near the end. They were working on a new AMC training facility near Mobile when Chrysler took over. A month later it was all scrapped. They closed up training facilities one by one leaving training up to the individual techs and their willingness to watch video tapes and take short tests that no one would ever see on their own time at home. Those techs who said they didn't own a VCR were given a $10 incentive to buy one and a coupon for a play only Panasonic deck that sold for $19.99. Most just ignored it all and training became mostly non existent. As a trouble shooter, and training tech, I gave up and left after they kept cutting back hours and expenses, even refusing to pay for our travel expenses in the end. They were no longer going to supply us with a vehicle, then balked when we didn't buy or show up driving a Jeep or Mopar. I showed up driving a new Ford truck one day, when they told me that wasn't acceptable, meaning that they were expecting me to call on their dealers driving my own vehicle, I just got up, got in my new truck and left and never looked back. Lot of guys then were near retirement age so they just called it quits too and were never replaced. The real kicker was that they failed to honor any retirement plans those guys had with AMC. They went out with nothing.
I think the pensions and such had a lot to do with how they handled the shut down of the old AMC facilities and the merger. It was done more as a purchase of assets not a merger. Those working for AMC were basically told that 'Some of you will find jobs at Chrysler, the others won't', and they systematically drove all the old guys out either by eliminating their job or making it impossible for them to stay. One guy I worked with, who was in his late 50's with a family and wife, was told he was being transferred to Alabama. They were not going to pay for his move. Not knowing anything else he made the move himself, found a place down there and moved the family over a 6 mo. period. 11 months later they dropped the whole project and he was stuck there with no job.They new full well that the project was going to be dropped, they had already ended funding for the AMC plans, but promised several guys a place at a 'new' Chrysler facility that never got beyond blue prints and some half wooded swamp land.
@@VB-bk1lh There was a rumor that Lamborghini was getting a version of the Grand Cherokee to replace the LM002. It never got past the idea stage. Someone did make a drawing of a possible Lamborghini "Grand Cherokee" that I saw in a car magazine but that's all I saw.
Two words that are the reason why they should have built this: Ford Explorer.
This would have been a perfect mass volume mid-size suv, that could focus a bit more on being the family holler with some decent off-road capabilities, which would have put it right on par with the Ford offering. Meanwhile, the Grand Cherokee could have been positioned as more of an upper crust, Land Rover type off-roader that focused more on being a premium off-road oriented vehicle.
Definitely! I couldn’t have said it better myself. I think they didn’t make it based on the fact they knew they could charger more of a higher, premium price tag for a Jeep compared to a Dodge product. However I must say, it is interesting how they did not make this, but a short few years later, came out with the Durango. Despite it being built on the Dakota platform and not the Grand Cherokee platform, this was a solid offering for the market. Especially for the Ford Explorer. Thanks for watching and commenting! Subscribe for more Jeep history every Wednesday, follow my 86 Wag project
- Garrett
Secret prototypes & history playlist: ua-cam.com/play/PLL-HJjKvWes65Jm3hfelNpSykWPCJYfCO.html&si=CTP2rAj8c9dHk4Mc
The Chevy S-10 Blazer & GM's Huge marketing campaign & its spokesperson THEE Michael Jordan brought a lot of attention to the compact suv market which was in its infancy in 1983. Remember back then, GM was by FAR THEE world's biggest automaker & they had more money than GOD! But the introductions of the 1990 Ford Explorer & '93 Grand Cherokee sent shockwaves throughout the automotive world that are still being felt today. These vehicles started the suv craze. Anyway, I'll try to make a long story short (too late). It was Chryslers' full intention for the Grand Cherokee to gradually & completely replace the XJ Cherokee (yes, the boxy late 20th century downsized compact) with the Grand Cherokee. But a funny thing happened along that road. People who walked into a Jeep dealership who couldn't afford the Grand Cherokee, were walking out with the XJ Cherokee. XJ Cherokee's sales went through the roof, much to the shock and awe of Chrysler exec's. They didn't see that coming! And the Grand Cherokee's sales were so good Chrysler said Dodge doesn't need a rebadged Grandie. We'll keep it in the Jeep family, thank you very much. 😎😎😎 And as far as the original Grand Wagoneer goes, it, and probably the Dodge RamCharger, were discontinued because they were gas guzzling behemoths (albeit Beautiful behemoths) & the gas crisis of the First Gulf War was probably the last nail in the coffin for both suv's. During the 90's, Chrysler tried REAL HARD to bring an updated full size suv to market but the concepts just couldn't meet Chrysler's, & probably federal (corporate average) fuel requirements, so that project was scrapped. 😥😢
VERY interesting. Thanks so much for sharing. You ought to make a video explaining all of this. Good stuff! I’ve heard that the Grand Cherokee was eventually supposed to replace the XJ Cherokee. It’s pretty cool they continued to produce the XJ while coming out with the Grand Cherokee. I feel as if that’s not something you hear of commonly. A replacement vehicle running alongside its soon to be predecessor. Thanks for watching and commenting! Subscribe for more Jeep history every Wednesday, follow my 86 Wag project
- Garrett
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@@wagonworks803 You're Very Welcome. Loyal XJ Cherokee owners were Very upset with Mercedes when they replaced the XJ with the Liberty. I LOVE Jeeps, but that's one of the ugliest suv's I've ever seen! My neighbor had one and she couldn't wait to get rid of it!! The XJ's are Still HIGHLY sought after in the ChicagoLand/NorthWest Indiana region. Even the beat-up ones don't stay on FB MarketPlace very long!!
@@wagonworks803 The Dodge Shadow/Plymouth Sundance duo were supposed to replace the Dodge Omni/Plymouth Horizons. But Omni/Horizon sales were so brisk Iacocca let them march on for like 3+ more years so Chrysler could at least recoup their research and development costs into said Omni's. I've been told it takes an average of 10 years. Which would explain why the Ford Tempo/Mercury Topaz duo didn't make money. They just weren't in showrooms long enough.
Great video! I read somewhere that Lee Iacocca had presented the ZJ designs(or possibly XJC designs at the time) to both Jeep and Dodge teams to create their prototypes. After reviewing each, Chrysler decided to let Jeep go into production with it.
Another interesting history of the ZJ is that it was designed by one of the influential and iconic designers Larry Shinoda, more famously known for designing the Corvette Stingray and the Mustang Boss. When he submitted his design to AMC however. they didn't like it at all, and never paid him. He was later surprised when he saw his design on the Grand Cherokee revealed at the Detroit Auto Show. When he approached Chrysler for compensation, they refused which led to a legal battle that lasted years. He eventually won, but unfortunately the payment came after his passing.
Thanks so much for your comment and for watching! I’ve heard that name before… it’s a HUGE shame he never got the credit he deserved for his work. You ought to make a video explaining all of this, it would be a slam dunk hit! Subscribe for more Jeep history every Wednesday @ 7pm and follow my 86 Wagoneer project!
- Garrett / Sla Automotive Art
Enjoy your video and I’m glad to know that you’re actually a human being talking
Haha that’s funny to hear. I’ve had one person comment one time, “THIS IS AN AI rOboT… do NOT BE FOOLED”. Sheesh lol. I enjoy putting these videos together, scripting and reading them myself. Thanks for watching and commenting! Subscribe for more Jeep history every Wednesday, follow my 86 Wag project
- Garrett, Wagon Works 86
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They'd have probably done well with it, but the Jeep brand allows them to bring in a bit of a premium and the Jeep branding. I don't think a Dodge variant would have done too much eating into the Jeep numbers, at least based on Durango data I can find online. Best I can gather, Jeep made just over 1.2 million ZJ for the 1993-1998 model years, so averaged out to about 240,000/year. Durango on the other hand, from 2005-2023 they only managed to sell 1,028,037 Durangos (so second gen and third gen). I can't find any first gen numbers. So it took Dodge 18 years to come close to the amount of ZJs sold in just over 5 years. The WJ did 1.4 million, the WK, even during the recession and high gas moved 682,310 units, and WK2 the last gen they just finished moved 1,980,284 units. So TLDR? The Grand Cherokee and the Jeep brand were worth the investment 1000%
I agree with what you’re saying. They have always been able to charger more for the Jeep badge on their vehicles as opposed to a dodge badge. The Jeep Grand Cherokee was definitely worth the investment. Today’s Durango that came out in 2011, has some very aggressive styling for a SUV, being not a Jeep, has lower a lot lower sales than a Grand Cherokee. You couldn’t have said it better yourself! Thanks for watching and commenting! Subscribe for more Jeep history every Wednesday, follow my 86 Wag project
- Garrett
Secret prototypes & history playlist: ua-cam.com/play/PLL-HJjKvWes65Jm3hfelNpSykWPCJYfCO.html&si=CTP2rAj8c9dHk4Mc
I worked in the Brampton assembly plant where the Charger, 300, Intrepid, were made. One day they provided DODGE stick-ons to "instantly" change the current cars to Dodges that would be sold at Dodge dealerships.
REALLY! … now that is interesting. How long ago was this?
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- Garrett / Sla Automotive Art
!984 to 1990. They just "produced" the stickers (called Appliques), and said use them to changes some of the cars to Dodges, so they could be sold in Dodge dealers. I still have some of those DODGE stickers in my tool box.
Uncle Tony's Garage just subscribed lol
Welcome, welcome 👍 Thanks for watching and commenting! I hope you enjoyed the video 😆 Subscribe for more Jeep history every Wednesday, follow my 86 Wag project
- Garrett
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Shadow convertible was called ES😉
Dodge's advertising material from the early 1990s was awesome.
Was that the “Grab Life By The Horns” era?
Why no version of the Durango to replace the grand wagoneer?
Ultimately, the Grand Cherokee ZJ was supposed to replace the aging Jeep Grand Wagoneer. Some of the reasons why it was cancelled, was because of its awful fuel economy, high gas prices did not do any good for the Grand Wagoneer. As well as the US Government making airbags a requirement for vehicles built after 1991. The overall basic structure and bones of the Grand Wagoneer was designed in the late 1950’s and early 60’s. Giving the Wagoneer/ Grand Wagoneer fresh updates to keep it modern throughout the years. By the time 1991 had rolled around with higher gas prices and an aging architecture, along with a few other reasons, the Grand Wagoneer would require a major revamp not worth investing just because of how old it was. Ultimately, with the Grand Cherokee ZJ, new design, smaller than the old Grand Wagoneer, better on gas and with airbags and meeting all new safety vehicle regulations, the Grand Cherokee was supposed to be a replacement for the Grand Wagoneer. Check out this video here: “WHY THE GRAND WAGONEER WAS CANCELLED” ua-cam.com/video/ugY-QuXRUTM/v-deo.htmlsi=MEE6mAPlm6xdzdJG
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- Garrett
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Great video!!
Thanks for watching and commenting! Super glad to hear you enjoyed. Subscribe for more Jeep history every Wednesday, follow my 86 Wag project
- Garrett
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I don't know what the fuss was about Chrysler accomplished. You had the Grand Cherokee, if you wanted the third rear seat you bought a Durango. Really similar
Wish they made them! Thanks for watching and commenting! Subscribe for more Jeep history every Wednesday, follow my 86 Wag project
- Garrett
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I swear on my life, I also remember seeing early concept sketches that originally had AMC logos on it as well. Similar to the original Cherokee, which was also made under them. Anyone else happen to come across these? It’s virtually identical to the Dodge prototype too, with the only difference being the grille!
I have yet to see these concepts with AMC logos. I’ll have to do some digging around. Thanks for bringing this up. Very interesting!!! Thanks for watching and commenting! Subscribe for more Jeep history every Wednesday, follow my 86 Wag project
- Garrett
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Thanks for watching! What’re your thoughts about this top secret ZJ concept vehicle? I wish they would have made it!
It would be interesting if that Dodge SUV did go in production as a unibody Durango and Ramcharger.
I’m telling ya, it would’ve fit right into Dodge’s lineup! What they would have called it, is a mystery. Maybe the Durango or a baby RamCharger lol, idk. Thanks for watching and commenting! Subscribe for more Jeep history every Wednesday, follow my 86 Wag project
- Garrett
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Will the concept one was definitely apart from anything that AMC bill for Chrysler continued to build the problem that I can see with it is it looks a lot like the Japanese competitors and everyone must understand in those days the Japanese four-wheel drive SUVs well they looked cheap and very much like a tin box.
Even in the 90s they spent time trying to shake that look.
Victoria says the designs that were left by AMC were very solid and so by the time you get to 90 is you can argue that it looked relatively 80s particularly on the smaller body Jeeps, it still was beefier than any of the foreign competition I mean it just looks a lot better.
Pretty cool, very interesting info. Thanks for watching and commenting! Subscribe for more Jeep history every Wednesday, follow my 86 Wag project
- Garrett
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Nice video, I just subbed. I assume the Dodge would be less expensive.
It’s too bad they didn’t build this dodge, I think the price point would have been lower than the grand Cherokee just like you said. Thanks for the sub, every Wednesday at 7pm I have a new Jeep history video or project Wagoneer update video, stay tuned! Thanks again for watching.
- Garrett/ Sla Automotive Art
This was a great video and I never knew and it would have been a great offering and it would have been cheaper than base model Grand Cherokee,but folks are Chrysler probably felt a Dodge model ZJ would take sales away from the Dodge version
What I think had happened was, they started selling their new Grand Cherokee ZJ and saw how big of a success it was… thinking the Dodge ZJ was no longer needed. Especially as they can charge a higher, premium price tag for a Jeep product compared to a Dodge product. Thanks for watching and commenting! Subscribe for more Jeep history every Wednesday, follow my 86 Wag project
- Garrett
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Nice subbed
Thanks for the sub, more Jeep history video every Wednesday @ 7pm along with updates on my 86 Wagoneer project. Thanks again!
- Garrett
了解，謝謝分享！
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3:32 Dodge had quite a lineup. Compared to what they have now in 2024.
It was a crazy lineup once upon a time! Unfortunately not these days. Thanks for watching! Subscribe for more Jeep history videos like this follow my 86 Wagoneer project on the channel!
- Garrett / Sla Automotive Art
And a few years later, we got the Dodge Nitro,, that was really a Jeep Liberty,,,,,
Same idea, yes. It’s too had they never put these into production! Thanks for watching and commenting! Subscribe for more Jeep history every Wednesday, follow my 86 Wag project
- Garrett
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The Dodge zj kinda looks like an Isuzu Trooper and a Dodge Durango merged into the one car?
I’d have to agree with you! Now that I look at it, it’s got some Japanese/ maybe Korean flare to it. Just a tad bit there. I know they were working with Mitsubishi around that same time… Thanks for watching and commenting! Subscribe for more Jeep history every Wednesday, follow my 86 Wag project
- Garrett
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Concept one looks like a Chevy trailblazer
im glad they didnt make a Dodge version Chrysler was bad at badge engineering and if they did they may as well have made a Plymouth version
When it comes to “rebadged engineering” I’d say GM is definitely king. Most of the time they know how to do it, and do it well. I wish they would have made this Dodge ZJ. Personally I like the design, I think it looks different enough, from the Grand Cherokee ZJ. Thanks for watching and commenting! Subscribe for more Jeep history every Wednesday, follow my 86 Wag project
- Garrett
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They did this very thing with the vehicle that replaced the Cherokee, the Jeep Liberty. It was called Dodge Nitro and looked way better than the Jeep!
Yeah! I remember the ol Dodge Nitro and Jeep Liberty twins. Haven’t heard those names in awhile! Thanks for watching and commenting! Subscribe for more Jeep history every Wednesday, follow my 86 Wag project
- Garrett
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I think it had to do with the restructuring at chrysler after the k era , they were trying to differentiate and monderize chrysler with certain design themes, and i beleve the durango was the conclusion as the second gen dakota would have been in development and sharing chassis with the dakota makes since in that context. During this time chrysler had an identity crisis as all k cars per basically the same and since the amc purchase chrysler ended up with mulitple dealer networks, jeep-eagle d dodge and chrysler- plymouth (the eventally combined all a couple years later as the jeep divison was jeep-eagle after the amc purchase. The lh cars neons all the 90s stuff was supposed to be a breakaway from cookie cutter chrysler to something more akin to when the were the engineers company. So this dodge zj just wasnt the right thing. Now if u want an interesting story- the chrysler concorde was supposed to have been the low buck Plymouth varient of the lh cars. As chrysler was working on giving them a full lineup of cheap cars was put with chrysler for somereason tho as chrysler was looking to move that brand up market(the chrysler brand) just look at all the prototype lh cars badged as chryslers most were decked to the 9s.
Personally I think this Dodge ZJ would’ve fit right into their Dodge portfolio. Just a few years later coming out with the Durango, it’s like… really? That’s cool, glad they did but hey, the Dodge ZJ would’ve been cool too. I’m not exactly sure on the dimensions in the Jeep and Dodge ZJ was bigger or smaller than the Durango, I think smaller. It’s all very interesting to me how they chose to create the Dodge ZJ, using the Jeep ZJ platform and then a few years later come out with the Durango using the Dakota platform. I wonder why they went with the Dakota platform and not went back to the idea of using the latest Grand Cherokee platform. Now a days the Durango is built off the Grand Cherokee WK platform.
Very interesting about the Chrysler Concorde… will have to do some research on all of that. Thanks for watching and commenting! Subscribe for more Jeep history every Wednesday, follow my 86 Wag project
- Garrett
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@@wagonworks803 i think it was personally due to servicability as around this time early mid 90s you had ur chrysler plymouth dealers, your dodge chrysler or jeep eagle dealer typically. and i think it had to do with servicablity same reason gmc was sold through oldsmobile pontiac dealers up til the mid 60s as in the 50s gmc used pontiac v8s for light duty and olds for heavy duty trucks. its all a different structure
I think they sold every Grand Cherokee they could build on maximum overtime. Would have needed another factory. Plus, Jeeps sold for more money.
That’s true, the Jeep brand could charge more of a premium, higher price tag as opposed to a Dodge branded vehicle. And perhaps the plant where they needed to build the Dodge ZJ along with the Grand Cherokee, wouldn’t be large enough. Thanks for watching and commenting! Subscribe for more Jeep history every Wednesday, follow my 86 Wag project
- Garrett
Secret prototypes & history playlist: ua-cam.com/play/PLL-HJjKvWes65Jm3hfelNpSykWPCJYfCO.html&si=CTP2rAj8c9dHk4Mc
The old Grand Wagoneer is worth 10 times more that it's later offerings. I wouldn't buy any Jeep past 1996.
Agreed, it was ahead of it's time with it's loads of tech and car like manners. Old is gold! Thanks for watching and commenting! Subscribe for Wagoneer Wednesday's @ 7pm and follow my 1986 Grand Wagoneer project!
- Garrett / Sla Automotive Art
cool vid, i love mopars! i think dodge didn't make that prototype due to budget
Perhaps some capital could’ve been an issue when it came to producing these. Sadly, we’ll probably get to know the full, true story why the company never gave the green light. I wish they would’ve made it! Thanks for watching and commenting! Subscribe for more Jeep history every Wednesday, follow my 86 Wag project
- Garrett
Secret prototypes & history playlist: ua-cam.com/play/PLL-HJjKvWes65Jm3hfelNpSykWPCJYfCO.html&si=CTP2rAj8c9dHk4Mc