Moe Norman Single Plane Swing - Week 2 - Golf Test Dummy
Вставка
- Опубліковано 12 жов 2021
- Moe Norman Single Plane Swing - Week 2 - Golf Test Dummy
#moenorman #singleplaneswing #golfswing
@ToddGravesGolf @Setup4Impact
CLICK THE LINK BELOW FOR A 15% DISCOUNT ON ANY BIONIC GLOVES PRODUCTS USING PROMO CODE: golftestdummy
www.bionicgloves.com/
SUPPORT THE CHANNEL FOR FREE, SIMPLY BY MAKING YOUR AMAZON PURCHASES BY CLICKING THE LINK BELOW!
www.amazon.com/?tag=golftestd...
FOR MEN'S SKIN CARE, SHAVING PRODUCTS, AND EVEN GIFTS FOR YOUR WIFE, CLICK THIS LINK TO BE TAKEN TO THE FARMASI WEBSITE.
farmasius.com/chad
ORDER THE CRIMSON GODS BOOK! www.amazon.com/dp/1737343029/... - Спорт
![Lp. Последняя Реальность #107 РОДНОЙ ДОМ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/IK3QKzKUlHM/mqdefault.jpg)
New viewer of your channel. I have used this swing since the mid 2000s. I started with Natural Golf, and I have studied Moe, Graves, and Junge. I hope I can help some viewers with some observations I've made as I continue to work on my swing.
-Lead hand grip: the heel pad sits on top of the club.
-10 fingers vs overlap: Moe overlapped except during his time with Natural Golf. Graves insists on overlap. I tried it but ended up with arthritis in the overlapping fingers. I went back to 10 finger and see no performance difference AT ALL.
-Stance width affects the timing of the face squaring up. Narrower stance causes the face to square later in the impact area. Wider stance makes the face square sooner.
-So, Stance width and strength of the lead hand grip need to be changed together. If you are going to stand more narrowly, you probably will need a stronger lead hand, all other things equal. And vice versa of course. For example, if you are making a good swing but coming in with an open face, spread your stance out a little and see what happens. For most of us, there will be a stance or grip strength that just feels right, and then we have to adjust the other half of the equation to make it work.
-The setup is not easy. The swing is fairly easy once you get set up correctly, but that's the trick. Spend a lot of time on the setup, and try to make it part of your routine. Not something you learn and then stop thinking about. Because, it doesn't feel natural and if you stop thinking about it, you'll stop setting up correctly.
-It's hard to figure out how much to lean forward towards the ball. I'm sure this varies by personal makeup. If you crowd the ball, you will swing outside in. For me, I want just the upper part my lead tricep lightly touching my lead side pectoral (upper chest). I do that with little or no lean, club head above the ball, and then tilt from the hips/waist to lower the club down to the ball. Otherwise it's too easy to drop the arms, which sets up interference from the chest.
-I personally do better with less shaft lean at setup than Graves teaches. Check out the videos of the Moe session in which he is wearing a cream and maroon striped sweater. (There is a spectator wearing a kilt. The channel is Tom Kowalsky.) Notice his stance is not as wide, his head is not as far rearward, and the shaft is not truly in line with his left arm (from the front view). That's about how I set up. When I lean the shaft like Graves, it makes me go back too far outside, leading to an outside in path. I think this is all because I don't or can't turn back as well as I'd like. I'm just pointing it out as a possible customization.
Gonna pin this comment for everyone. So many of your points are things I've found to be true also. Especially the part about the setup. You'll forget it. Must be a diligent, conscious effort each time, each hole, each round. Over and over. Love this. Thanks so much for the comment.
Good stuff I've been single planning for a few years thanks for the input on things I haven't thought about. I pull with my left arm never really concentrated on the right arm, something moe says in one of the videos is he pulls as hard as he could with his left arm. But when I pull as hard as I can I normally block it. When your take on that? When I swing smooth I can hit some great shots but loose alot of power. How can I fix?
I have played around with left arm and right arm and both. I think people have a tendency one way or the other that works for them, so you have to experiment and see what works. As far as distance, try using the lower body to drive the swing rather than the arms. I tend to be more consistent and powerful when I do that.
@@davidrodriguez2366 Power without technique is not useful. Get the technique down, and the power will then come naturally.
Aww. Thanks for the shout cuh!
The over under is 3 books lol. The channel doesn't have a ton of gravity.
Six months in on this system.
Gone from a 17 hcp to an 8.6.
Shooting in the 70’s now for the first time ever after 35 years of golfing.
Way more fun.
I had to stick with it and refine it over time but it’s well worth it.
Can't wait to see where I am in a month. Then 2 months.
Thank for taking this on.... cant wait to see how well you end up on the course... put the work in and it should pay off.
Thanks Wayne! I will definitely have course trials coming and I can't wait to see the results myself. But I have to stay disciplined and stick to the grind. Can't spoil it just yet.
This is getting interesting. I'm going to give this a try tomorrow
I can honestly say I'm enjoying this one. It's not easy, that's for sure, but I think the difficulty lies in just how far away from this method you are with your swing. It's relative. San Diego isn't far if you're in LA, but if you're in Boston.... haha. I'm just having a lot of fun and I'm seeing actual results faster than I thought I would.
Thanks for the video.. always a good watch..I've jumped around with so many swing styles but what i figured out (way too late) is I really should be focusing on the bottom of the swing at impact. Master that than find a swing that suits me.
Thanks Ryan and I totally agree.
Great content and interpretation. I have always killed it using single plane with my driver. I mean absolutely bombing it but I have never mastered the irons. Like yourself I have studied everything I can get my hands on and have purchase training material from Todd Graves. It frustrates me that I can not seem to get it with the irons. Looking forward to your single plane videos you are doing an awesome job.
Thanks a ton Kevin. Hopefully, my trip will be of some use.
Good video Chad, don't let the naysayers bring you down you're doing good things for us users
Thanks BSR! Always keeping the faith. Appreciate the support!
Excellent presentation.
Thank you Mr. K! That simple comment really hits home for me.
Thanks for the review! I spent 8 weeks on this swing (Todd Graves) but I bailed eventually. I had some a amazing front 9’s but could not keep it together for 18 holes. The left knee “braking system” was difficult to transition too as it is so radical. Hopefully you might do Milo Lines? He is pretty different but very conventional. I am working on his stuff now with some great results so far. Always enjoy. Thanks again.
Jeff, much appreciated. More of this review to come. The left knee...... man I'm learning more each day, and it definitely takes a conscious effort on my part or I'll forget and my lower body becomes stagnant and awkward. I've seen a lot of Milo's vids. He is tied closely with Mike Malaska, who I've seen a lot of content from as well. Great stuff and excellent teachers.
I myself am dabbling with the single plane swing. I haven't really followed formal instruction, but am applying both principles from graves and junge. I still can't figure out how to hit using my 5 or 6 iron using the single plane swing, but I really couldn't hit those clubs very will using the conventional swing.
But what I did notice was I have had some dead straight, and I mean dead straight ball flights. Just pure backspin, club face was at 0 degrees and there was no sidespin only backspin. I uploaded a couple of videos to my channel so you can see what I'm talking about. They are 10 seconds each. I think this method really has potential to be great. Love the channel Golf Test Dummy, keep us posted man.
I'll look them up. Who knows? Maybe I can give some insight.
Another terrific takeaway….concentrating on SQUARING the back of left hand throughout swing. Really refining and reinforcing what I’ve been working on. Better….to better…to great. P.s. changed grip from overlap to 10 finger as you highlighted in last video, really enhanced clubhead speed. Thanks. Don
It was surprising to me how easy it was to switch to 10 finger after years of overlap.
Love the video mate! have you tried using the E6 software that comes with the R10? it will give you incredibly accurate numbers and you can project it in landscape as well.
Unfortunately I'm using an Android phone and I'm waiting.....
Patiently.....
For Garmin to release E6 on Android. But, as soon as I can, I'm firing it up.
@@GolfTestDummy ahh I didn’t know that! I’d just get a new iPad or phone haha 😂 But then I guess I’m not sure how transferring the license works 🧐
💪
GREAT JOB CHAD.....Do you ulner deviate your wrists at setup ? Also do you push off the trail foot to begin the downswing as per GRAVES ?
Your channel is AWESOME
THANKS .Ron
Thanks a bunch Ron! I definitely get the ulnar deviation in the left, and truth be told, I've got wrist pains pretty bad for the last several years now, and that irritates it. BUT, I still do it anyway, haha. Pain is the price I guess. As far as the trail leg, I've tried bracing on it versus "normal". When I brace, my shots actually get more solid, but they fly a bit too low for my taste. That said, plenty more experimenting and dialing things in ahead.
Chad
With your adventure into that rabbit hole you spoke of last video and I agree…if one does try to swing on a single swing line it is a rabbit hole that once in it is interesting … do I leave or stay with it? Because they feel something
To keep this golf swing as easy and simple the club has to have a chance to get its club face “square” as we setup to try and deliver the shot we wanted
If you haven’t but I hope you
do ….. check out the videos of JH when he talks about the time with Moe and the information about what Moe told him that I’m sure no else has talked about
JH had a Moe Norman School in 91 along with Moe
The hands going through the ball I think you’ll find helpful
It’s the way I believe to keep the club plane where it should be and not multiple axis
Keep it simple
Thanks Steve! You know I've watched a ton of JH and I've watched his Moe series in the past. He's always good for some great insight and explanation.
Perhaps it was totally accidental, but I've been using the single plane (at least my version of it) for the last 6 months or so. After struggling with consistent impact, I kept trying this and that and eventually ended up with pretty much of a single plane swing. And yes, it got better right away. And it's still improving and getting better and better. I struggled with a driver slice that nothing seemed to fix. Of course, it wasn't every drive, but it was always in the back of my mind. With the single plane swing it is virtually gone.
Wow that is fantastic and definitely boosts my optimism a little more. I've had a similar experience so far. You just keep messing around and trying to learn and things start to click in to place.
So I have also been working on the single plan swing too and have watched a lot of videos by Kirk and Todd. IMO Kirk presents it in a way that is much easier to understand and his less radical style is more appealing - to me anyway. That said here is my take after just two days/sessions trying this out. Kirk's method of holding the club up and then letting it fall naturally to unhinge the wrists and create the proper alignment, while it makes sense, seems to put a lot of stress on my left wrist. To be fair I have a very strong grip with a solid three knuckles showing. Based on what Kirk said the swing can work with a lot of different grips so I did not delve into the grip modifications as much as you did. I will make some adjustments based on this video and see if it helps. On the positive side, I did like the concept of getting into the impact position and sort of working backward from there - my words not Kirk's. Using this method and taking shorter practice swings, I found it a lot easier to hit the ground after the ball which is something I struggle with, and was making solid contract after just a little practice. So that alone has peaked my interest and is a good drill regardless of what swing is used. Overall though holding the club that way feels very awkward and creates a stiff sort of robotic swing versus the smoothness of my normal swing. Of course I have not given it a lot of time yet so I am going to stick with it a bit longer to see if there are any real tangible benefits. Hey it is the end of the season so now is as good a time as any to give it a try. Sorry for the long comment but we are about in the same place in our testing. It is challenging for sure, but will it be worth it in the end....I just don't know. I really appreciate what you are doing with this series.
Thanks Alan and I appreciate the summary. Gotta agree with a lot of what you said. I have bad wrist pains anyway, and my bones and joints tend to "catch" and send sharp pains daily through my hands. So, just like you said, that much weight sticking out like Kirk does to get the left arm and club right takes a toll. For me, it is just easier to sole the club on the ground, lean the shaft, and take my grip. As far as your low point control and contact, what's really worked for me is one of Moe's "feels that ain't real". He said his club stayed square to the target 22 inches past the ball. A physical impossibility. But square to the swing plane 22 inches after is certainly doable. Stay with the shot. Through the ball. Chase it down the line like Trevino. He was a master at it.
@@GolfTestDummy Yeah I am going to try a little less straightening of the arms and work on the follow thru like you suggested. I think that and the impact position is really what it's all. Back is messed up right now so a few days off, but I'm going to continue with the "experiment" for now. Thanks man
Hi Chad, The ten fingers grip is better for single plane swing. One question is do you stack and tilt when setup? Thanks.
No stack and tilt added to my single planes swing at this point.
@@GolfTestDummy Thanks. I alwasy stack and tilt a little bit when setup and feel more inside out swing and less low body movement.
I’m working on a cross between a Ben Hogan pretty tempo, and a wide Moe Norman single plane swing. When I nail it, it goes far/pure and dead straight. Doing it consistently is another story. That was the beauty of Moe’s swing perfect 99% of the time. Todd Graves is not far from Moe in my opinion. Love watching his on course videos. Hits his targets constantly
Yeah, that's one thing I believe is a common misconception. That if you apply Moe's swing, you'll get Moe's results. Not true for the vast majority of us. Todd was a pro. Moe was extraordinarily special. His swing might make us better, but we will never be pure machines like he was.
@@GolfTestDummy I agree. feel like if I try to mimic Moe/Todd I get a nice straight ball flight but I need to modify and make it mine at this point in order to get a good balance between distance and accuracy. Nothing feels better than a perfect straight pure shot that goes a reasonable distance for that particular club.
The guys I’ve seen that been able to get good results all are a little unique in their own way. Chandelier Rusk for instance
Are you going to stick to using the clubs you normally use or adjusted lie angles?
B.t.w....
You need to check out that brickwork on that wall, its starting to crumble....
Haha, don't pick on my brick themed photography tarp. It's sensitive. For now, I'm not going to modify my clubs. At least until I get further along in the process. Then I'll see if it's needed.
Much better in this video although a pure DTL would tell me more. You have somewhat of a hybrid of your old swing (maybe 40%) and a one plane swing. Suggestions for improvement: 1) Be careful of bowing your wrist on the way back, it changes the angle of attack on the way down which is still a little steep, but better. Keep the lead wrist flat and you will have better control of the clubface and better counter your old closed-face habit. Moe's takeaway brings the hands and arms in towards the lower body quite quickly but the lead wrist stays flat. 2) related to "1)" drive your knee forward ( in typical Norman fashion) while tucking your elbow into your side and trying to put your trail hand in your back pocket on the way down (this is a Norman-ism). 3) If you do "1)" your will be able to flatten the left wrist on the way down to pretty much parallel with the plane line and then just release into the back of the ball. This will give you more lag and better impact. Nice change, keep up the good work!
Just to be perfectly clear about the wrist thing after looking at it again, your old habit was turning the back of your lead hand downward on the way back and now you are just doing that slightly early in the backswing but on a short swing it makes a difference. This is why you are coming down a bit steep and with your lead wrist a bit open. The hallmark of Norman's swing was clubface control and so if you fine tune this you will improve your strikes and control. When we hood the clubface, it feels as though we are preparing to compress the ball and increase shaft lean but this is very relative to the rest of what happens in the swing and often produces the opposite due to other factors.
That's some of the changes I've made this week. I'm psychic I guess, haha. Left wrist flat and stays that way going back, left wrist acting as the clubface down and through squaring up at impact, driving lower body with left knee flexing through impact. Working very well.
@@GolfTestDummy Cool. I'm glad we're on the same page. I have been studying ( in my very prolonged and exhaustive swing research ) the nature of and the variables that go into the release. I now believe that there is nothing more central to great ball striking than the release and the various related elements such as wrist conditions at various points in the swing (most especially pre and post impact). I now believe this is so pivotal that one could literally build a swing working back from a great set of arm and wrist conditions (obviously grip is related) from halfway down to halfway through and just construct a body motion that allows you to be in those positions and you could have a phenomenal swing. Contrarily you could have a fantastic set of body motions with very poor hand, arm, and wrist movement and struggle to hit the ball solidly. As a matter of fact, I really wonder if all of the very different but extremely effective tour swings are not a result of exactly that; tour pros can naturally sense a solid powerful release far more than average golfers and the ability to build a swing stems naturally from that. For example, I believe that Moe Norman built body positions around an almost perfect on plane release and essentially "patented" that release. He didn't care if it looked weird because he was able to guarantee that release from those postions and who's laughing then? Another interesting thing is Tiger saying he couldn't chip properly because his new swing (and hence new chipping) had a different "release pattern". Critics said he had the permanent yips with chipping and a few months later he was back to being a stellar chipper. Or yet again, the fact that Tiger says that he does everything in golf (i.e. all shotmaking) "with his hands". Food for thought😃
Tons of pros and teachers talk about hands being the main source of good or bad golf. Good stuff.
Here is a video of Moe I recommend. In it he talks about simplifying his swing. He used to do some severe moves that he learned from Paul Bertholy. And in a lot of the videos, he demonstrates those moves. But in this video, he is saying that a lot of that was wrong, and now his swing is simpler. I've showed it to others and they don't see any difference, but I do. Here it is:
ua-cam.com/video/l9A_o4lXIwU/v-deo.html
The basis of all golf instruction before modern technology is based off of feel and not real
Agreed. It had to be that way. That's why there were so many unique swings and players. There's a case to be made for each era I suppose. There's really no better example of feel versus real and how it manifests than Moe. What he describes is a long way from what happens, and it's nearly impossible for most people to take someone else's feel and apply it effectively and often.
Like Todd said, there’s no evidence that raising the trail foot gives more distance and compression. The reason that graves and moe emphasized that trail foot being down is because it physically limits how much you can move within the swing. Think of it this way, can you bend your elbow 90 degrees backwards? Of course not. Moes swing is a sum of this type of phenomena. He found ways to address and move in such a way that the body is *naturally* limited. The second you lift that trail foot, you’re at the mercy of “the slingshot effect” and timing rules that. There’s no timing in moes mechanics. Timing is a natural response of limiting motion. If a swinger isn’t keeping that lower body stable and limited, they are missing 90 percent of what made moe so consistent.
On a personal note, see that photo of Todd’s address and backswing you put in? This is my discovery that put the swing into place. Look at how much sidebend Todd has at the top. Moe demonstrated this in his coin drill. This is another aspect most SPS golfers don’t understand. The sidebend in the backswing shows proper positioning and motion to the top. If you don’t see your torso at that angle, you haven’t made a turn and you haven’t got that “extension” moe spoke of (swinging through the course). you also haven’t moved the club properly, and you haven’t limited your body going back. Without this angle, it’s a false turn which means lifting the club, hinging the club, pulling it in-manipulation. Simply taking address (if proper) and turning around the spine without changing the sidebend puts you in the right position at the top, moves the club correctly, get your hands shoulder high naturally, and the weight into the trail heel. It feels like you’re turning behind the ball. Todd’s book shows that the head and body actually move back about an inch from address to the top. If you can get there, the rest of the swing is automatic assuming you keep the feet on the ground and don’t straighten the left leg. Sorry for the novel, enjoying the videos.
That's great info and thanks for posting it! I can say that in the videos of Todd's that I've watched, I've seen or heard all of that mentioned. At this point, I'm still experimenting to see what produces the best results for me, and going between letting the trail foot lift and keeping it planted is one of those elements. There are lots of different ways people make their own "single plane swing", but in my opinion, if the heart of what we're doing doesn't follow what Moe was doing, we can't expect to get close to what Moe got. And Todd is certainly the closest to Moe that we have now.
@@GolfTestDummy totally agree. Sps is only defined by starting and impacting on plane but there’s many ways to do that. I believe moe intuitely found THE BEST way and Todd learned it and measured it.
Are you a certified golf instructor? Get certified before you start posting content in the golf swing.
No he's not a certified golf instructor but he's a good guy trying to help out. He's trying these various swings to let users see different types. You should not reply with negative comments. You sound like a jerk or worse a Biden supporter
Certified with who exactly...? How many folks have you helped recently Gary..?
I voted for Trump, sir. I haven't helped anyone but I got instruction from a certified instructor and Loving this game more than ever. My point is if you want to improve at golf get off UA-cam and a professional in person.
@@garyhall9974 you haven't been watching then Chad has taken professional lessons and brought those lessons to his channel to share. He's a regular guy trying to help other golfers. If you don't appreciate his advice or channel then don't watch it. It's pretty simple
Chad is a great guy and I always look forward to his videos. He is engaging, insightful, funny and up-to-date. He is cutting through the thicket of different golf schools so we don’t have to. Keep it up Chad - we appreciate you! 👍🏼