My Customer Is Getting Shafted By The Local Toyota Dealer
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- Опубліковано 6 лют 2025
- A customer of mine asked me to look at his 2020 Toyota Tundra that has an issue starting and stalling after the engine has been running for more than a few minutes. The truck will start and run fine all day long, until you shut it off. After that you either need to spray it with starting fluid or wait until it cools off to restart. After a few tests the problem was obvious so he took it to the local Toyota dealer to have it fixed under warranty. However they informed him my diagnosis is wrong and he needs to pay for the part because it is not under warranty. This is the exact issue he was trying to avoid. Let's see how this ends up for my customer.
-Enjoy!
1/7/25 UPDATE - SEE PINNED COMMENT IN VIDEO
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Before we get hundreds of comments on it. I am well aware of the "Toyota Fuel Pump Recall." *THIS VIN DOES NOT FALL UNDER THE RECALL.* I checked with NASTF as well as calling two different Toyota dealers. This truck has no open recalls by the VIN and the customer has owned it since new.
*NOTICE* - As of 1/6/25 The local Toyota deal has told my customer that my diagnosis is incorrect because Toyota does not even have a published specs on fuel pump current and then they proceeded to tell him it needs a "Fuel Pump ECU" because the bracket that holds it to the frame has corrosion on it. Not the connector or the pins but the bracket. WTFudgesicle does that have to do with anything haha. They told him that is not covered under warranty, and he would have to pay for it. Let's wait and see how this turns out.... stand by
*UPDATE* - As of 1/7/25 the customer had some back and forth with the dealer and finally they agreed to replace his pump and that they were wrong, and I was right. They admitted to not even diagnosing it the first time and they were just guessing based off pattern failures and throwing parts at it. The customer told me they installed not only a used fuel pump ecu but a new one as well and guess what? *IT DIDN'T WORK!* The time they spent guessing could have been spent testing. Oh well, at least the truck is fixed now, and he didn't have to pay for their guess work. They even offered to deliver his truck to him after all of the apologies 👍🏼
*UPDATE* - As of 1/8/25 Customer got his fuel pump replaced free of charge by Toyota, then they delivered it and put ten bucks of gas in it. And apologized some more. I guess we guessed right then 🙂
I hope they accept this video as proof.
Please keep us updated
So what happens if the dealership replaces the module and it doesn't fix the problem? Do they 1) give h back his money and replace the fuel pump FOR FREE or 2) lie to him and replace the fuel pump under warranty?
Toyota dealership: Your diagnosis is wrong Mr. O.
The internet: AHHAHHAHA... wait, you're serious? Let me laugh even louder! BWAHAHAHAHAH!!!
@@SouthMainAuto The plot thickens! I hope your customer doesn't end up getting screwed by every dealer he takes it to!
I have been wrenching for 23 years. And man is it refreshing to watch videos of someone that really knows how to do this kind of work properly. Your clients are very lucky to have you sir.
I wish Eric was local to ALL of us!!!!
@@jameshausler5259 Yep, me too!
Eric says he's "not a big electronics guy" but yet is one of the few techs who knows what an oscilloscope is and can actually use one. Y'all are my favorite automotive repair on UA-cam.
You are right!! Having an O-scope and knowing how to use it is becoming a rarity in shops.
Agreed 💯👍
Ya he's just modest
He's a diagnostic monster!
I think you’d be surprised how many independent shop technicians are well versed in oscilloscopes. Dealer techs, no. They have no need when part shotgunning is allowed.
But great job disparaging (or attempting to) a lot of hard working folks!
Eric is great at electronics, I AM an Electrical Engineer, and he really knows his stuff whether it's CAN data, green puss, or a random open wire.
His customers are very fortunate.
What is amazing to me is you are actually SPEAKING to your client/customer. I was actually told by my local Ford dealer that “we usually don’t want technicians speaking directly with customers.” when I asked to speak to the technician directly. How in the WORLD am I supposed to explain my issue when I have to translate it through a service advisor that usually has absolutely no idea as to what they’re even talking about…
I’ve worked on both sides of that service advisor and tech. A lot of techs do not want to speak to customers do not know how to or do not care to do so. Not blaming them just could be one reason why
@@feron450 And I've only worked the tech side and can definitively say that I always like to hear the problem directly from the customer, not translated to paper by a service writer. Some service writers know the right questions to ask but many do not; which can lead me to chasing my tail. And on the dark side, if I don't have complete or accurate information the chances are greater I will be replacing more parts than necessary, unbeknownst to the customer.
Typically what happens is the problem diagnosis changes as the chain of explanation lengthens.
While likely not the case in your circumstance, look up "customer states..." videos for reasons techs may not benefit from talking to customers directly. Even Eric laments customer descriptions at times...
While I agree, in part, for the vast majority of customers, almost every single sentence of this video would just go way over their head as industry jargon. Showing this video to the average car owner would be like the most adept mechanic you know watching a nuclear physicist describing how a nuclear bomb works and then trying to make one. You might trust the mechanic, because now the vehicle works, but there's always someone out there who will doubt it and call it a scam and claim that maybe they didn't really need $xxxx amount of work. "Why wouldn't a $10 relay work just like some random guy on UA-cam said? There's no way I really need the whole fuel sending unit/pump replaced!" I do my best to physically show the customer myself what's wrong every time I can. Even then, I've been burnt by ungrateful customers or those who simply don't understand something as simple as a wheel bearing or tie-rod being loose = bad 100% of the time and it won't simply heal itself.
They should also PAY HIM for having to PAY YOU to diagnose the problem correctly! Kudos to him for taking steps to hold them accountable.
Eric O. clearly states that the customer has not taken the truck to the dealership yet. Hold them accountable to what?
@@vg3430read the updates in the top comment.
@vg3430 If you read the SMA updates in the comments section you would know the customer did, in fact, take vehicle to the dealer service department and finally got them to admit they were wrong. He held them accountable and they replaced his fuel pump.
@@vg3430 So you may want to read the updates.
Great Diag Mr. O!
Whats sad is, that the customer had to go through this just to get the dang truck fixed! SMA to the rescue!! Killer video.
If it was me, I'd let SMA fix it , screw the warranty. He deserves the business.
I'm crying too 😪
It is as if the customer knew they were going to fire the parts cannon and not repair the truck, so, he just got Eric to do the diag. I think Eric does that for everyone; just give a diagnosis if that is all they want.
At least the engine wasn't blown like the new 6 cylinder turbos😢😢😢 5.7❤
My 13-year-old son of all people said to me the other day "all of America is a scam." It often seems that way; we have to assume that every interaction we have with government or business is either incompetent or malfeasant. Except for small businesses, where there is an actual human being who cares about other human beings. Thank God for skilled caring independent mechanics like you Eric, a rare breed in 2025!
This is because greed is fundamental to human nature. However, people in highly civilized societies temper their greedy impulses for the good of society as a whole.
Well, your son was partially right. It's not an American anomaly. This happens all the way around the world. Even grabbing a taxi in many foreign countries is a scam.
Nicely said
I’d love to disagree with you all but unfortunately experience tells me you are at least partially right.
I always appreciate your methodical diagnosis 😂
I do like the idea of these dealership technicians watching your videos so they can properly do their jobs.
They probably dont have the time do to this.
They're not being taught to fix things anymore. Its sell a new vehicle not repair
@@demonknight7965 The dealership technicians aren't there to sell a new vehicle.
Those guys are there to fire the parts cannon, make their hours and hope something sticks.
The environment in new car dealership service departments is not conducive to this sort of thing. Though the hammer test would have been my first step. Then the pressure check. The pump sounded like it was choking on gravel too. That takes all of 30 minutes for me. Don't know how a dealership couldn't at least do that shadetree kinda stuff.
Ha ha ha. Dealerships job is make most amount of money off improper repairs and deny any warranty.
Dear Eric,
You are truly brilliant; I was a "go-to" guy in the railroad industry for troubleshooting both analog electronic and microprocessor controlled diesel locomotives for almost 40 years and ten years after I retired, I am truly humbled by your abilities and charm! Don't ever change!
Best Wishes to you, your family and your viewers for Health and Happiness in 2025!
Take Care,
Tom
We're very proud of you thank you 😂
Thank you sir same to you and yours
Ive worked on cars from points and condensor. To unbelievable electronics..
Watching eric work is a treat.
After 40 yrs in business..i still can learn from his videos.
Thanks Eric.🧑🏽🔧
You can teach an old dog new tricks lol nice
Eric, setting aside your education, knowledge base and experience in the field of auto mechanics, my primary take-away from each and every video you produce is your commonsense, logical, systematic approach to facilitating ANY repair. This alone , I believe, endears you to the majority of your viewers, myself included. Waitin' on your next vid.
@@waynechristie1405 I agree with you 100%.
Just to add, I believe Eric is just a man who is trying to take care of his family. He was raised properly and by that I mean he was taught HOW to repair vehicles. Now beyond that, he prides himself on getting to the root of the issues with his repairs. I know he keeps telling us that he hates cars and says he hates doing the same diags over and over again. Its the nature of his business. He is very good at what he does. Best brake replacement skills I have seen and do mine just as he shows us.
Sorry, I'm rambling but one more thing...he has come a long way in connecting with his viewers. I like the everyday back and forth with his wife and his affinity to Luna. Good overall videos he produces and edits. Entertaining as hell!!!
After 50+ years as a mechanic who LOVES the work, I was the best I knew until I saw this guy. My late-model diagnostic game isn't anywhere near his, but man, it sure is great to see somebody who uses logic and induced cause-and-effect to pinpoint a problem. Unlike the VAST majority of today's "technicians" he UNDERSTANDS how things work and why, which is WAY too rare in the field. He should be an inspiration to EVERYONE working on cars. THIS IS HOW YOU DO IT RIGHT.
Thank God. My tundra has been sitting 6 months with this issue.
I'm an electrician in an acute hospital and one day a work colleague drove up in a land Rover Discovery, shut it off and went in to get his joinery tools, when he came out it would only crank but not start. He said he had been towed to repair centers three times with the same fault and nobody could fix the issue, so I got a rubber hammer off a fitter and located the fuel pump behind the back drivers side wheel, hit it a good thump and instantly heard it whirring. I asked him to start the engine and she fired right up!
I said you need a new low pressure diesel pump and after he got one fitted he never had that problem again.
The bigger surprise is that the Rover ever started in the first place.
Awesome
That old saying- "your not paying me to hit your equipment with a hammer. your paying me to know where to hit it" LOL
That is classic British car and nothing new. Way, WAY back, many English cars had electric fuel pumps. I recall they were made by S U, the carb company. Frequently they failed to function correctly at start-up. With the engine nit running you could hear it running or not running. In the OWNERS HANDBOOK they recommended that you "rap it sharply" with a hammer. IN THE OWNERS MANUAL!!!
You are my hero. I have watched a ton of your diag videos and they are all wonderful. You have inspired me to, on multiple occasions, dig deeper into problems with my own cars that I might have otherwise spent a ton of money to fix. I had an issue on my prelude - it drove to my parents house then wouldnt crank. My dad kept saying 'I will just have it towed to the mechanic', but I kept thinking 'what would Eric do?'. With a shop manual and cheap multimeter I determined it had to be the anti-theft relay. A bit of wire, and I was hailed as the car whisperer, but I give that award to you, sir. Never stop making these videos - you probably solve 1000 other people's problems for every one, even if they are not related directly.
I don’t even have to see the whole video. Getting screwed by dealerships, not just Toyota, is a common thing these days. They are not performing any type of reasonably diagnostics procedures and still charging people an arm and a leg even when their conclusions are wrong. It’s great that he brought the truck to your for diagnosis. You sir are an exception to the rule. Your knowledgeable, professional and a true artist. I wish I lived closer to you so you could work on my vehicles.
Because of flat rate. They might only get paid $20 for diagnosis
If it's not on the manufacturer approved flowchart they don't know what to do
As a diagnostic specialist let me explain WHY that is. The dealer is hiring people willing to work for $20 to at most 35/hr Now if you have the intelligence, knowledge, and tools to diagnose computer networks on wheels you surely are smart enough to realize that the pay is far from appropriate. Personally, I charge $150/hr and have more work than I can handle. Let us not forget that with the same skillset(actually fewer skills) you can be a network engineer at a large company and not work in uncomfortable often dangerous conditions.
@@blue03r6 some might not get paid anything. There were many labor items that paid 0.00 when I left the dealership
@@MDAdams72668 exactly why I left the dealership too. They wanted to reduce my pay to be more inline with other techs but not my workload.
What people don't understand about dealers is that most of the mechanics who work there are parts changers and nothing more. They might have one or two guys who actually know how to troubleshoot problems in depth. Most of the guys like you who are good at diag go into business for themselvss. I'm not surprised by the updates you've shared about the situation, Eric. Arrogance and incompetence are the hallmarks of most dealership service departments.
Lol i fix floor cleaning equipment im in dealerships almost daily if the public saw the technicians i see you would never go back 99% of techs arw 18-24 year olds that dont know shit kinda makes me sad
Hallmarks 😊
That might be what you're used to, but that's hardly the case in my area (upper midwest).
Back in the day, when I was working the parts counter at the dealership, that was what the service manager was supposed to do. Get the job routed to the correct tech, and give directions on troubleshooting for the less competent or experienced technicians. 😢 I’ve had only a few interactions with dealership repair shops since I left 40 years ago. It sure seems that there is a problem here with how dealerships process incoming service issues.
i don't think it is incompetence, they just don't get paid their normal rate for warranty work, so they will come up some other "problem" to try to make a larger paycheck
Nice to see a mechanic diagnose a problem and not just fire the parts cannon. Great work guy!
Eric just held a master class on fuel pressure diagnosis for Toyota's. This kind of data is unobtanium for the most part, and the odds of the dealer tech even putting a pressure guage on it are small because he does not own one and the shop tool is missing or missing the needed adapter.
Excellent diagnostic work Eric. Very disappointing that the dealer couldn’t even correctly diagnose their own vehicle
Well there is nothing better then after a long hard Monday coming home and sitting down to dinner and seeing a fresh SMA video. Awesome Diag Eric, thanks for bringing us along
I just had a friend have an HVAC "technician" recommend a new $1000 control board for his intermittently failing furnace. He got someone else to look at it, and it was a plugged condensate drain that had backed water up into a pressure sensor. The sensor needed to be replaced, along with unplugging the drain.
Few people properly understand electricity - even "highly trained and certified master factory trained technicians".
For all that Eric says he doesn't understand electronics, that is the biggest thing he is consistently wrong about. He does understand! Far, far more than most people that need to understand to do their jobs.
That's probably the first thing the HVAC guy would check.....he wanted to charge for a board.
Had the same thing done to me.
I had an tech come to diagnose my ac not starting. He told me the furnace needed a new $600 control board. I investigated myself and discovered that the high temperature limit switch had tripped and that was putting the furnace into its safety mode. I reset the limit switch (pushed it with my finger) and voila the ac started. Ultimately, the root cause was that the heat exchanger had cracked. I don't know how the tech could have been so wrong. I even told him that I think the furnace was going into some sort of safety mode.
@jptrainor not HVAC trained myself. Never took an electronics course. But have learned basic home wiring, how to build computers, even built my own electronic drumset from scratch.
My parents had their heating system stop functioning. The original diagnosis made no sense once I got there and watched what was happening. No prior experience with any furnace so had to google what certain parts were and how generally things worked. A multimeter to check for various issues and help sort out the wiring. Parts all seemed to work. So I assumed a software or board issue. A hard reset had not been tried, so I shut off all power, waited a good 15 minutes to make sure stored charge and memory would be gone and turned it back on.
Bingo. Operating correctly for more than 6 months.
Just thinking. Testing. Logic.
Gets you a long ways.
I'm a HVAC company owner. That pressure switch didn't need replacing if it only got wet.
The more I watch you work on these new fangled vehicles the more thankful I am for my old 1983 Chevy S-10 .
Ditto with my 95 Silverado.
Even with the effing spider injection system.
Ol Iron Duke
Yes you should be able to get parts for your S10 for a very long time thanks to the Post Office. All those little P O trucks are based off an S10 Wheeler Bros has almost every part manufactured new.
I learned to drive on an '85 S-10 Blazer 4x4 (2.8L carbureted), and in my early twenties, I ended up owning that '85, which I later sold, and two '91 S-10 Blazer 4x4 (4.3L). I love those square-body S-10s, and if I could find another 4WD one (Blazer, Jimmy, Bravada) I'd probably get it in a heartbeat. That is, if I could find one that wasn't all rotted out, with torsion bar bushings in good condition. (I probably wouldn't accept another 2.8L unless it was manual transmission, the engine is under-powered for the vehicle and the transmission has to constantly go in and out of Overdrive on slightly-hilly roads at 45-50 mph.)
I still remember how to retrieve OBD-I codes with a paper clip, I even remember some of the codes. 12 - No Distributor/Crank Pulse (Normal when retrieving codes). 34 - Map Sensor Low. 44 - Oxygen Sensor - System Running Lean. Haven't done the paper clip trick since... Yikes, 2013 or 2014, on my '87 LeSabre. It used to be so easy...
Absolutely! Cars these days are waaayyy too complicated.
0:34 I just love that “Cosby sauce” is becoming a common description of starting fluid 😂 Thanks Peg
🤣🤣
Watching one of these troubleshooting videos is like a well crafted "Whodunnit" book. Well done! Agatha Christie would be proud!
Nearly a million better informed viewers. Eric O bringing power to the people.
His content is much better than the Car Wizard but Eric hasn't got Hoovie boosting him..
I’ve said this before, you’re patrons and locals in your area are damn lucky to have you. I sure wish you were closer to my area. It is a blessing to watch your videos and see how you take care of your customers, I wouldn’t care what your rate was, it would be worth it. 💪
your patrons
Chevy Thunder 🎧
The days of dealers taking care of their prey, i mean, customers, are a thing of ancient past im afraid. I have zero empathy for any one of them anywhere. I appreciate you as always looking out for the people who put food on your table popop.
I know, it's tough out there.
Agreed I don't know how many I've fixed from them.
Me too I do not trust dealers anymore
You speak the truth Sir. Sad day in the repair industry.
This has been going on for a long,long time, the last English car dealer, I knew of, who actually dealt fairly with his customers, and I know this from school friends apprenticed to him. Died nearly fifty years ago.
I am glad for him that he went to you first. Eric. I had to replace a pump on a 2017 Prius. Dealer only part. Price 1110... plus tax. Plus labor. This is located behind the rear seat. Not to bad. I save my son on this by buying a fuel pump from a wrecking yard, from New York. They listed the pump on Ebay for 110 plus 12 for shipping. The nice thing on some listed items from wrecking yards on Ebay, is they show pictures of the vehicle after it is in the yard. They showed the milage illuminated. We saved a ton from Ebay. Outstanding Video! Your tech diag. is Amazing! Thanks!!!
Not to try to initiate a circle jerk or anything, but I would like to say,.. This is easily my favorite UA-cam channel period. The diagnostic deep dives have helped me expand my knowledge and some of the little tool tips thrown in have been 100% spot on. I really like the Tiger Tools snap ring and body panel removal tool. It’s awesome for u joints. I also was a teen in the 90’s so your humor is spot on!😂🤣. Thanks for all these years of great content. I can only imagine how much time and money you have saved techs and DIYers over the years.
Great video! Recognizing the importance of 14V vs 12V is probably the part I would've overlooked.
Actually the voltage difference is probably worse than that. The system voltage while cranking is maybe 8-10V. That is not enough to start the hot fuel pump. Remember near the beginning that the system did not appear to do a priming hit on the pump before cranking. Maybe that was a wrong guess, but if it was correct, the pump not starting on 8-10V is a clue.
And yah, hindsight is easy. To trigger on the voltage difference during the diagnosis is brilliant.
@@FreddyLangley I definitely agree that the cranking voltage will be well below 12V, but shouldn't the system start the fuel pump before it energizes the starter, to guarantee full fuel pressure at start-up?
@@jamesanderson2176
My old 2004 JDM Toyota Wish does exactly that.
In fact I switch on the ignition to the "run" position and then buckle my seatbelt, adjust the rearview mirror...all while the pump can be heard pressurising the fuel system...
Then twist the ignition key (remember those?) and away it goes.
What idiot designed a fuel pump controller that doesn't do this?
@@JohnSmith-pl2bk But this is a pushbutton start. Any delay between starting the fuel pump and the starter would be noticed and would make it seem that pressing the button was not working.
On another video, Eric pointed out that some sort of truck (GMC?) actually hit the fuel pump briefly when you first opened the door, so the fuel system would be pressurized for an eminent start. Unless of course you were working on a fuel line and then it started squirting (as happened to Eric).
I can't think of a good way to sense when the driver is about to press the start button (or turn the key).Maybe detect the brake press that is required before you press the start button, but that might only be a fraction of a second.
@@FreddyLangley
So in that case the fuel pump should be ordered to pressurise when the driver gets into the vehicle...
and at all times the vehicle is "mobile"..i.e. at all times the gearshift is not in N or Park.....
and/or the push button STOP hasn't been pushed.
The Cosby Sauce lol, great diagnostic how to video! Definite head scratcher as to what the world would be causing the pump to cease.
Probably was a motor bearing ceasing like the steering pump bearing with the missing cage in SMA's last video.
“The Cosby Sauce” had me laughing out loud.
I had a 2016 Toyota Tundra that that had this exact symptom. I lived in Alaska at the time they had a master fuel technician come up from Seattle, who could find nothing wrong with it. I wish I had this video at that time. Way to go Eric you’re amazing.
A Master Fuel Technician huh?
So they must have a
Master Electrical Technician
Master chassis technician and so on so on
@@2nickles647
Years ago, when I was in the pest control business, I was certified in roach baiting, rodent baiting and termite baiting.
Once I had all three certificates, I was awarded the Master Baiter certificate.
@@2nickles647 don't forget the Master Bait-ers
@@2nickles647 Had an insurance claim on a brand new Audi R8. The Audi dealer had to fly a tech in (to Canada) from Germany to look at the engine and diagnose it as a total loss. Owner paid $200,000 for the car and had coverage for full replacement cost but an appraisal of the vehicle actually came back higher than what it cost new. So we paid the higher value of $215,000. I think that car brought it like $140,000 at the salvage auction.
@@2nickles647and a master debater to talk you back and forth so much you’re left dazed and confused
Hey Eric. Electronics guy here. There is a component that is called a PTC fuse that is essentially a self-resetting thermal fuse. That’s likely what they used in the fuel pump module. They also could have had the micro-controller measure the current drop across a load sense resistor, which would actually be cheaper. Both could behave in the same way, pulsing when overloaded. Awesome find!
I'm a retired mechanic and when I last worked for a dealership, the dealership had one master technician but told everyone that their master tech couldn't find anything wrong! What a joke! I didn't work there very long because I wouldn't play their games! Thanks Mr. O!
Toyota's great cars are being ruined by their horrendous dealerships. And i say that as a confirmed Toyota fanboy and owner of a 2022 Tacoma. Thanks as always, Eric, and Happy New Year!
You said it man! I'm with you on that
The whole point of "mandating" auto dealers (in the US) originally was to protect the customer from the manufacturer (this is actually true), but the crazy situation we have today shows how the best of intensions can have horrible un-intended consequences later. Both the manufacturers and consumers would be (overall) better off without the dealership monopoles.
Eh they all suck...still prefer a Toyota dealer vs HKG, Ford or Chevy dealers, man oh man good luck over there..
R.I.P. My 01 Tacoma 😢
Can't be that great of a car if the fuel pump already failed on it.
Great video I learn a lot from you even after 41 years as a mechanic. Your 194 bulb trick has helped me many times. Watching you hit the tank with the dead blow hammer to shock the fuel pump brought back memories of how we use to diagnose the late 80's to mid 90's GM trucks with bad fuel pumps
I used that method for starters 🔨
@@mejesse809 a bfh has been known to free up a stuck bendix on occasion.
My experience was with Ford products on hot spring days with a near full tank of winter gasoline. (in Northern states and Canada gasoline blends change twice a year). Fuel would vaporize in the lines or pump and stall the vehicle. Let the tank cool a while and then kick it with a steel toed boot and drive for a while again.
The real issue with the Tundra system as designed is the Fuel Pump ECU does not have a diagnostic link to the PCM or on a powertrain CAN bus. The Fuel Pump ECU knows when the pump seizes (locked rotor) and overloads because it is monitoring the motor current and shuts the motor output off after sensing an overload. If this motor diagnostic information was sent back to the PCM, the PCM could record a DTC relating to a pump over current event. In fact a P1604 Startability fault code was current in the PCM, but it is too generic to be of specific help. If a DTC positively identified the fuel pump as experiencing over current events, the diagnosis would be much much quicker.
@@windward2818 oh heck yes
I'm always blown away by Eric's expert, careful, and persistent efforts to diagnose problems in today's computer controlled cars.
Eric, as a subscriber, I've enjoyed the several videos I've watched on your channel. I'm impressed that you have all these cool toys (diagnostic tools) AND you use them well. At around the 9:20 mark on your video, you say, "I just drive one, I don't work on it they don't usually break". I had to nod my head in agreement and smile. I have an "02 4Runner daily driver that has 245K and like most vehicles, if it's maintained properly, it will give you the years of service that the quality of parts in it will allow. A have friends that tell me, "You have a lift in your garage but you are never working on anything". I tell them that it's there because I needed a 3 car garage. I keep a Tacoma on the lift and the wife parks her Civic under it. The T4R parks beside them. At 62 yrs old, It comes in handy when servicing our vehicles. Anyway, your quality of work and customer care is A+ in my mind and eyes. Too bad the customer had to jump through hoops to get a warranty fuel pump out of them. It's not like Toyota would lose their shirt by giving him one. Dealership is probably using your video as a training aid, if they're smart.
Truck owner is blessed to have a shop like SMA in his area.
I'm learning so much from you Mr.O...........I'm getting to a point where I can figure things out. It's the speed at which I get it figured out that is the problem. A couple of sleepless nights having irritating dreams while I think about it and BANG! Problem solved. The upside is I'm not on the clock.....I'm just a lowly mailman with a strange obsession of figuring out how things work. If I could actually read a wiring diagram and pay for service data I could reduce that diag time to a day and a half. LOL! Believe it or not there are some weird people out there get off and work and head straight to the gararge. I'm trying to graduate from firing the parts cannon to actually digging into theory and operation.
See if your local library has free service data through motor, Mitchell or all data. A lot of libraries do
@@SouthMainAuto What a great idea....Thanks! I have a library literally less than 5 minute walk.
@@SouthMainAutomy local library has/had (last time I checked) ALLDATA it was free.
You'd make a beautiful assistant
The library is great advice. Most people forget about them. They think the "smart phone " will have the answer instead of doing some research.
Eric is in the top echelon of automotive mechanics that can fix stuff. AND his explanations are understandable to a guy like me who knows just enough about the topic to be dangerous. Thanks again for showing and teaching us, Eric.
Eric, You are 100% spot on! Just the noise of the pump is enough for me and I 100% agree with the why it starts with ether! That question was burning a hole in my brain the entire video but I think you hit the nail on the head! Great video like always!!
I had to think about that one for a second too.
Cosby sauce.
I'm not at the end, but I'm guessing it's unrelated. The pump eventually responds and he thinks it's the spray that did the trick.
@@ShaneRimmerWorld Not a mechanic, but battery voltage would come back up after a few minutes and able to start the faulty fuel pump, and the owner mistakenly attributed it to the ether or whatever the spray is.
@@SouthMainAuto the increase in voltage is the answer I'm buying!
Great work!
Glad to be a long time subscriber!
What's up for when you hit 1,000,000,000 subscribers?
I'm retired vehicle maintenance tech. Enjoy watching your videos, some of your troubleshooting videos. I have learned some of different ways to troubleshoot codes. Thanks for the video
My first guess was fuel rail pressure. That was as far as I was able to go. The tools you used I do not own and they are expensive. I own a 1976 John Deere 310-B backhoe that will not run well if the diesel injector pressure control valve gets pieces of debris coming from the injector pump lodged in the pressure control valve. I only know this from watching a you-tube video on the topic. Thank you for sharing your knowledge with other people.
Definitely current limited circuit sometimes called "hiccup mode". It detects an overcurrent shuts off current, waits to let electronics and fuse cool off then tries again. In this mode the main fuse should not blow because the RMS current is low. Electrical Engineer ( retired)
I was about to comment something very similar.
100% agree. Electronics tech (not retired)
So it's designed to mask the problem by protecting the fuse from blowing?
Ok boomer 😅
Excellent diagnosis i agree with you that its 99% likely the pump is bad.
I like your analogy, I am the same way I'm never more than 99% sure!
Growing up in the 80s there was three ways to get stalled cars running again; tap the carb, tap the starter, tap the gas tank.
Would be nice to use the same methodology to get a stalled dealership to work too! Great video and money well spent by the truck owner for the diagnostic!
Haha love tap
It’s people like you that make UA-cam worth it. Ty
The old “bang on the tank” trick to get a vehicle inside on the lift is one of my favorites! Probably used this trick 200+ times over the years.
Great video Eric, fuel systems are so friggin complicated these days, I miss the old mechanical pumps that worked off the engine and not a crap load of electronics
so true,, can't even turn on a light bulb without an ECU.. WTF? W ednesday T hursday F riday..
the problem is, ethanol and fuel additives smoke the rubber diaphragm in no time flat. no need to ask how I know!
I try not to work on vehicles anymore.. I do, just not fun anymore. But I work on large packaging machines, and I really appreciate you walking through your thought process to help other learn why you go down path X with your troubleshooting. This is quite helpful for people.. it’s the whole teach a man to fish part. Anyway, just want to make sure you know someone appreciates it! Ha
Man, I really hate guessing games dealership techs play these days with their diags. I was a Ford and GMC/Checy dealership technician for 5 years, have now moved to a power sports dealership for the last almost 6 years. I will not call the customer until I am 100% certain I have the right diagnosis and have taken the time to double check (even triple sometimes) the tough diags. I won’t lie and say I always get it right, everyone makes the wrong call from time to time. But, I do have a very good success rate that I am proud of and work hard to keep it that way. There are some good dealer techs out there, just far less than there used to be.
You would have made an excellent shop teacher, Eric O. Your ability to explain your findings so clearly to us is second to none.
Eric, I work in electronics repair business and believe me, you have better diagnosing skills and basic understanding of electronics than most of the electronics techs that I know. Also, your understanding of current demand and voltage drop, buy using proper load (bulb wattage) is impressive.
Again Eric, a comprehensive and well explained diagnosis. This job wasn't a great earner for you as you didn't get the remedial work, but you did get an opportunity to cement your reputation as a mechanical tutor to us UA-cam followers and a general all round good guy. Well done...
Whooho!! Just made my night 😂!! Thanks for posting these videos, we all really enjoy!
I dig how u go above and beyond & use the most common sense tactics to diagnose anything that’s in ur shop .
You are correct and as a Toyota mdt, I always recommend replacing the ecu with a new one when the pump fails. This is because it's a ground controlled module and when the pump fails, it usually overloads the circuit and damages it internally. You can just replace the pump, but I recommend it at the same time as a preventative measures
It is easy to scream “scam” when a repair shop is stumped by an unusual problem. UA-cam channel “Diagnose Dan,” a technician in the Netherland, focuses on issues that dealerships or other shops cannot figure out. These channels simply showcase extra smart detection focused technicians with time to look at data, check systems and test each possible problem area to find the problem. Not everyone has the take talent, or the time, or is allowed by the business to spend time solving one problem when several cars can be serviced, repaired. It’s all about $$$. Great analysis and detective work in this channel. Thanks.
Well that’s just fine! The dealer is supposed to be expert on the vehicles they sell. If they can’t fix the customer problems why do they need to do service work?
i've missed you eric o, i use your videos as an escape from my day to day life, thanks for posting stuff for us
sometimes a break is good
I do all of my own mechanic work because of dealerships and shady shops. I can say that if your shop or another just as good was near me I'd never work on my own stuff again hahaha. I hate getting scammed and I hate working on vehicles even though I'm decent at it. Keep up the awesome work and keep the videos coming!
If Mr. O found this in my Tundra, I would have SMA replace the fuel pump! Yes it cost money out of my pocket….but would I trust the Tech or service writer at Stealership? Proof is in the video and it would let me sleep better at night knowing SMA did it right the first time. Great Video
OEM fuel pump is $300-400, but I'd rather pay that to SMA than trust a dealer. Learned the hard way.
You may not think you're a big electronics guy Eric, but you're better than the vast majority of Toyota technicians and dealer technicians in general!
I have a 2010 Toyota Highlander that I took into Vandergriff Arlington, Texas had the timing chain blow off, and this is the second time I’ve taken it to them for the same issue. They said they found metal in the dipstick which that’s not even possible to pull a chunk of metal out through the little dipstick hole and they said it would be 6000 for a motor with more miles than my car 3000 for labor and 1000 for miscellaneous so all in all they just wanted me to buy a new car. I let the car sit in my backyard for a year and decided to junk it and they gave me 1800 for it. I lost so much in that car but it’s hard to find a good mechanic not shady, that’s why I like this page
How many miles?
My sister parked her 2015 Tahoe for over a year because no one could fix her truck.
She heard that I am a shade tree mechanic. 😂😂
She towed it to my tree house.
About 1 hour later I told her what's wrong.
By the way Chevy dealership took a stab at it before she parked it.
She spent $1k in parts total. All Chevy parts only. I shopped from a dealership in Texas.
Anyway, because I have an actual job. In between my work schedule I fixed her truck.
To this day, she is so happy her truck runs so well.
And it's because of Eric O and Ivan.
@@wespotter6985 this?
My 2006 Tacoma would run perfectly in all condition except when merging onto the highway; at a certain acceleration rate and only at 2400 RPM the engine would turn off until it reached 2000 RPM and cycle repeatedly. I could punch the throttle and have full power out let off and it would run fine. After taking it to Toyota they told me nothing was wrong and charged me $300 then I took it to a recommended mechanic who messed around with the engine ‘computer’ and again nothing wrong-charged me $400. This is after I specifically told him to change the fuel pump in order to rule it out; I figured it had 160,000 miles so just change it out for my peace of mind.
I took it home and changed the fuel pump. There were little chunks of copper in the fuel tank from the commutator of the fuel pump.
Truck has been running great for the last 100,000 miles.
Took me 45 minutes to remove the fuel tank and about an hour to shake out the copper bits and install the new pump and another 40 minutes to reinstall the fuel tank.
I surmised that I always run the tank down until it’s almost empty but I learned that the fuel actually cools the fuel pump so I never let it go below 1/4 tank. Lesson learned.
Not sure why mechanics simply won’t do what I ask them to do.
Oh and I went back to Toyota to tell them that it was the fuel pump all along…The service guy told me that I was wrong… I guess he was using his stellar trouble shooting skills again.
Great video, thanks.
Great diagnosis! Why this channel doesn't have a few million subscribers is beyond belief.
Toyota dealership service and know-how are racing to the bottom very quickly.
I enjoyed this video. You have a great step-wise approach to troubleshooting that most don't have, unfortunately. We can only hope that "our mechanic" watches your videos, too, and maybe they can actually troubleshoot and understand our problems before loading the parts cannon for another volley. More great stuff from South Main...😁
Your customer did the right thing bringing it to you first. Well done .
So many people commenting on here are so knowledgeable about dealership techs!! It’s amazing you vast amount of experience. I’ve worked at a Toyota dealership for 25 years! I pride myself in problem solving like Eric does. I learn from him and there is some I could teach him on Toyota. However, a lot of you are forgetting how our hands are tied with Toyota, if its warranty they call the shots. They don’t pay to diagnose a car that the customer is most likely “waiting” for and in a huge hurry! The technology in these cars changes every 6 months and is impossible to keep up on! Don’t forget about all the recalls that come out daily!
In short, I’ve never met a tech that’s out to get the customer, there are quite a few that don’t carry the knowledge needed for these new cars and burn out their team leaders asking questions. Before you jump to Judge, try understanding all the variables and understand it requires a ton of patience that customers don’t allow anymore.
I’m sure the majority (including myself) who criticize the modus operandi of Dealerships are thinking about something similar of what describe….the whole machinery including manufacturers (Toyota in this case) it is always setup to profit and shift blame until the end. Even in your example between bad practices from Toyota, a mediocre technician or bad management from the dealership they still get to sell cars, the dealership make their commissions, you clock your hours, collect your paycheck and the customer pays the price.
@18:35 Mr. O. is one very intelligent guy which is clearly demonstrated by walking us through all of the possible issues controlling fuel delivery, or lack thereof, in priority order.
As a Toyota tech starting this video off there is a TSb for extended crank requiring replacement of fuel pump and ecm update on these tundras for several year models. Alcohol density pid on data list will be high
You are the man Eric people in your location are very fortunate to have you.
I'm not sure you remember me, but I was your ACDelco Rep for a few years. I used to visit your shop with Gary Mitchell a few times a year. I retired a few years ago and I'm enjoying life. Great work as usual.
Nice diagnostics! I've learned so much from you! Keep em coming and Happy NewYear!
once you hit the tank with that hammer and I heard the racket that pump was making,I knew it was the pump.great vidio.
Yes it had the tell tale sound. I wonder how the owner was able to get running with ether. Just strange coincidence I guess.
@johngriffin5142 maybe the engine pulls a bit of vaccum to help it get going?
@@agger838 It's very curios. If I understood Eric correctly the owner stated that when he started the engine in this manner, it would run no problem afterwards. I'll have to rewatch and pay closer attention to the fuel setup on this vehicle(or just research it). If it's just standard port injection with fuel rail and electric injectors then I don't think vacuum would play into to it. Maybe though...I guess it doesn't really matter...just a curiosity.
@@johngriffin5142 he also talked about the alternator giving it more volts
@@agger838 Sequential port injection...pump is definitely binding and drawing a lot of amperage. Once it does get going it doesn't seem to just fail(not yet any ways)but is drawing too much amperage. Maybe when the customer fired the engine with ether the alternator provided enough amperage to overcome the binding similar to when he had the battery saver on there but even more so. Eventually that wouldn't work either. Lol...should have watched all the way through before posting.
I was crying at "i don't know much about these things, I just drive one" 😂
Eric O. forever the funny man
If I had someone available like you I would have the vehicle diagnosed first then take it to the dealer for warranty work. Smart customer!
Dealership doesn't have anyone like you to diagnose because they're not going to pay what someone like you requires for your knowledge.
Toyota tech here. First: thanks for posting videos like this as it helps me learn. Still learning everyday.
Second: the moment I heard that pump running I knew it was at least a problem if not the problem. Just based off of having done plenty of fuel pumps and knowing how it should sound.
Third: as a tech I would have said thanks for the help. For warranty purposes I would have needed to confirm it for myself and provide documentation. But that’s also easy cause -- listen to that pump.
🍿🥤 love coming back to the Channel and seeing Mr.O do his thing. Happy New Years!
Perfect diagnosis Eric excellent to see great work in action
Good evening sir. I really enjoy watching your diagnostic methods
Knowing how systems work is half of the job. A lot techs throw parts at it because they don't understand how a Particular system works. Good job Mr O!
You're the man Eric. You show him up every time. Good work! Excellent diagnostic input. We're all proud of you. Have a good day
TChump0
at first glance, i felt confident the motor wouldn't start on warm because some ECU component was awry and misreporting (sensors be wilin'!). You felt fuel pump from the beginning, and i was like NO WAY - somehow you ended up walking me through it, and i was edified in a way I did not expect. Thanks for teaching me how you came to feel it at first - a troubleshooter's read is an important skill to hone, and you do it fantastically. Thanks again, Mr. O.
That customer knows how to treat his fixit guy!!
As you have provided proper diagnoses - that is what matters You found the problem - And at first I was leaning to a fuel pump relay from the way the pressure was behaving while you were under the hood, But I totally agree and you see this is what the industry is missing logical thinking and like how Holmes said
When you have eliminated all which is impossible, then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth”. And that is what I see you do Eric A very thorough diagnostic. Wayda go there...
Nicely done, idk about you but I usually enjoy these “ the dealer said” customer concerns.
Been a tec for 17 years now and I’ve proved the dealer wrong many times.
you're the man Mr O, once again.
Many semiconductor manufacturers make high side "switches" with current limiting, overcurrent retry, etc. Easy to do in silicon now, and they aren't very expensive. Used often for lamps, etc.
We really appreciate your help with this
Glad he got it fixed 👍🏼
huh
@@AmandaWenban-r8t are you the owner of the truck? 🤔
@dans_Learning_Curve yes my husband and i
Smart customer for tackling that issue via LLC, well played by both of you!
my wife is prohibited from going to any mechanic for troubleshooting with the exception of know, reliable, mechanic like you sir!
We learned over the years and it still holds true today is to always check the basics... Fuel/Spark. In this case we would have checked fuel pressures first as you did after you suspected it was a fuel pressure problem with the logic you used. It never ceases to amaze me how many shops and dealers out there will fire parts canons and risk not only having to pay for all the labor and parts if they guess wrong and the customer finally gets it fixed and goes back later for a refund, or in lost business because a customer won't come back to said shop/dealer because they fire parts canons instead of using logical diagnosis and checking for the basics... Fuel, Spark, Air, Compression and at the right time. It doesn't matter how many things control these particular things it needs these things at its core to work properly. Honestly it's not difficult if you teach yourself to think logically and use the "prove" method to show you it is what you say it is. Good Job Eric. After my dad passed away (master mechanic for 50 years) and I suffered a spinal cord injury that left me mostly paralyzed from the waist down I had to find a new mechanic because I can't do a lot of work any longer due to my disabilities and my severe chronic pain. I actually called shops and asked if the mechanics had heard of your channel and Ivan's channel and if they are fans. That narrowed down the search in a hurry. I'm happy to report I have a great local mechanic not far from me that does top rate work like you and Ivan do with logical thought process. When you body tells you your wrenching days are coming to an end, think about opening a consulting business teaching classes of mechanics your logical thought processes. It's a great gift to think that way! Happy New Year to you and Mrs. O!
They are not allowed to fix it.. I worked for a dealer.. the OEM will not permit many fixes no matter what.
Didn't get to it last night but a great video. Nice walk through of the theory and operation. Another great diagnosis. Thank you again for helping us learn, you're a good one Mr O.
Steelerships think they have all the answers and are above anybody else working on these rigs, I guess you proved them wrong! Bravo!
Another prime example of a fine technician. Great job Eric, guys like your are so hard to find nowadays .
Eric, you don’t miss the steps. Awesome teacher. ❤
hope you an Mrs o safe from the lake effect snow.. stay active!!!
LOVE the custom Wilbert's hoodie!!!!