The transparency issue with Hornady has always been my problem with the 7mm PRC. The fact that they did not change the numbers on their packaging when they knew it had changed is not acceptable.
Packaging I can forgive... to this day it's still listed at 3000 on the website - conveniently identical to the outfitter cx to save on printing cost of seperate labels 😅
Yeah I never really liked hornady for any serious hunting because 1. they no longer make any serious hunting bullets, its all cup and core or copper which performs like shit and 2. because everything except their superformace loads are underpowered for the cartridge.
Shot placement shot placement shot placement -practice practice practice does no one practice with the same Ammo they’re going to hunt with and know how it shoots before you go try and shoot an animal? I was hunting with a very knowledgeable Gun person. He chose not to shoot his gun before he went hunting after a flight. It was 16 inches off… he shot a bear in the face …so whose fault was it the ammo or the person aiming the gun???
Hornady really screwed up with the fact that they didn't change the labeling, then followed that up by trying to backpedal and make excuses about it. It wouldn't have been an issue if they updated the label and posted a statement or video about the change right when it happened. Hard lessons to learn in PR and customer service... Reputations are easy to destroy and hard to restore.
Hi Jim, I was there on day 2 and had the problem with the loose action screws. As it turned out, the back screw was loose and located under the front of the trigger guard. Once both screws were torqued properly, I resighted in yesterday and shot a 0.812" group, which is what I was expecting. The back screw that was stripped was the read trigger guard screw, glad it was only the trigger guard screw. Had a great time, really a treat to meet with you and Tate. Great fun. Processed all the meat the next day. A very memorable experience. Thanks so much.
The ascent are some amazing bullets. My 7rem loves Hornady super performance and terminal ascent. I waited on the 7prc in hopes Hornady gets their powder issues taken care of. Really wanting that waypoint in 7prc but might hold off and grab a sako 85 in 7rem then rebarrel in a year or 2
I completely agree. I have a Bergara Carbon Crest 7 PRC with a 22" barrel and a Dead Air Nomad can on the end and I am averaging 3021 fps with the federal terminal ascent. Out of about 40 terminal ascent rounds shot thus far they have all been over 3000 fps. Using a Garmin Xero C1. It is also the most accurate bullet out of this particular rifle with 3/4" moa. The Hornady ELD-X was averaging 2780 with their crap powder. Hornady's Match wasn't any better either. The Federal ELD-X was averaging 2933 fps for me. I do not reload and for my particular use, hunting, I am loving the round and my rifle performance.
@zr2overlander323 I have got a half Moa in the 170 terminal ascent in my opinion it is the round to use in the 7prc I'm getting around 3,010 24 inch barrel
Love my 7PRC. It shot sub-moa with every ammo I tried and the Federal is getting close to the FPS advertised even with a shorter barrel. I like it so much that I bought 25 boxes of Federal just to be set for a long time.
I've literally shot 10 different ammo types through my PRC and they have all been sub moa. Sure some are much slower but the accuracy hasn't been an issue.
Am feeling happier with my choice to go 7 rem mag w Springfield 2020 waypoint. It has 1/8 twist. Had good rough site in in somewhat windy conditions. Just got my suppressor in last month and trying to beat NM weather one of these weekends and get some serious sighting-in going. I wanted 7 PRC originally but am settling into my 7 rem mag decision
@@dyllandominguez5548 Yep - My son took a 4x5 Bull with this rifle during our recent Oct hunt - and weather was short sleeves T shirt day one, thermal underwear and down coat day two lol🤣Friends of ours hunting same area the next week - big snow storm, all data and insights were mostly useless to them - our dry conditions forcing elk to a handful of water holes gave way to pockets of water for them everywhere and 6 inches of snow.
Hornady did the same thing with tight chamber specs going back to at least the 6.5 CM. I love seeing people cry about the velocity. Everyone wanted it to be a wonder cartridge, so Hornady went along with it. Knowledgeable reloaders saw it for what it was and listened to what Hornady said it was. An updated 7mm Rem optimized for shooting longer bullets off the shelf. Yeah, they should have been more up front about the change in their ammunition, but consumers should have been more skeptical of the marketing. In case anyone has missed the pattern with Hornady: 6.5 CM = updated 260 Rem/6.5 x 55. 300 PRC = updated 300 Win. 7mm PRC = Updated 7mm Rem 6.5 PRC = Updated 6.5-284. They're taking cartridges that have been around, tweaking the case design in favor of longer bullets, then specifying tighter chambers and faster twist barrels. Basically, what the custom market did with custom reamers did for the older cartridges. Anyone that expects earth shattering differences in performance of the new cartridges vs. the old, needs to step away from the kool-aid.
@bozaiwarrior tell me how your comment makes sense? 6.5-284 has 2-3 grains less case capacity than the 6.5 PRC. The 264 Win has close to 18 grains more capacity than the 6.5 PRC. An updated 264 Win would be based off of the 7 PRC case. Not off of the now obscure RCM line like the 6.5 PRC is.
My old mate I asked about this when it was being spoken about first off, his response. " I have a .284 improved. " he wasn't all that wrong I don't think.
Was using a 308 for hunting Elk for the past three years. Was successful one out of those three years. However, I blame myself for last year missing one due to not having a range finder and missing low. However, this year I got sucked into the 7 PRC band wagon. Had the gun smith put a Leupold VX-3HD 4.5-14X50 CDS-ZL DUPLEX scope. Son and I were out in Wyoming in the mountains during Thanksgiving. Came upon 8 cows. Was 275-300 yards up on a hill as the cows were down on the other side of the mountain. Got situated set the cross hairs exactly at the sweet spot. Squeezed the trigger, and it dropped like a sack of potatoes. It was a clean ethical kill. 10 seconds later son got the other cow just to the right of mine. When we went to process it, I noticed when we skinned it. The lungs were popping outside the rib cage. Also noticed way more blood under the hide vs my son’s 300 WSM. He shot very close to where I shot mine. Anyone have an answer for why?
I distinctly remember on a Backcountry Hunting Podcast with JVB that the ballistions at Hornady proudly told him at a trade show that 7 prc doesn't develop a carbon ring
@@thepracticalrifleman i can't remember exactly which episode it is... But I'm almost certain it's in the 7 prc new cartridge episode or in the 7 rem mag vs 7 prc episode.
@@jackbuendgen389 I’d like to hear it because it is literally impossible. Carbon-rings happen to EVERY cartridge if the area between the chamber and the leade aren’t maintained. Magnums it happens faster.
Never had any issues with mine. I pre ordered a proof research barrel before they came out and I couldn’t have been happier. I wasn’t expecting the velocities hornady advertised since I didn’t have any RL 25 or 26. I’m sure that’s how they got the speed. I shoot 175 ablr with retumbo for a hunting load at 3030 fps, and 180 eld-m with N560. The primer pockets got loose really fast with the hornady brass from the boxes of precision hunter I purchased for break in, but I have 7 reloads on the 200 pieces of adg brass I purchased and the pockets are still really firm. I do run them on the hotter side and anneal, for what it’s worth. It seems to me that most of the people that are running into pressure, are the people who are trying to chase the speed that hornady advertised for the 7prc. lol. You get what you get, but you should also be loading for accuracy and not speed. If speed is king, go with the 28 nosler. I have a 26” barrel btw.
@@kevinlee5122 not necessarily, but RL26 is a speed king that is more temp stable than RL25. Grand is also a higher velocity powder that is supposed to be “temp stable”. I tried viht 565 and 570. Both gave velocities in the 3k+ with amazing accuracy. 565 is super to be temp stable as well, and with my testing, I’ve found it to be true. 570 gave better accuracy, but with the weather I get and the distances I shoot, I’d prefer temp stability. I’ve been able to shoot under .5 moa and better out to 980 yards. With every powder I’ve shot. I decided on 69.5 grains of retumbo, at 3030 fps. SD 2 ES 5. Fed 215 with adg brass. Flattened primers at 71.5 grains.
Hits and misses are qualified by the target intended. Shooting a pea at 2 miles, you better hit the pea or it's a miss. Intended to hit a 6-foot diameter gong instead? Well, call it.
I always thought the 7 Mag had too sharp of a kick. I like the 300 Win Mag more than the 7mm. But my favorite now is my Christensen Mesa in 6.5 PRC. That gun is very accurate and a mild kicker. Too light for some folks but the 140 Grain premium bullet will kill anything I need to shoot, including Far West Texas Aoudad!
Glad you are letting people know about these issues. The 6.5prc is actually worse for carbon build up, coming straight from Hornady. I chased my tail for months trying to figure out why I had random signs of pressure and now I will buy a bore scope and clean after every range day to insure there is no carbon build up.
I decided to go ahead and get a used 7 rem mag instead of a 7 PRC. I'm glad I did because I'm getting over 3200 fps. I just zeroed my rifle this weekend at 300 yards for an elk hunt. Recoil is definitely manageable with a good recoil pad and a clamp on muzzle break
@@Drakehilt At 500yrds, a 180 leaving out at 3k is hitting at somewhere around 2250 ft/lb. What's that 139 hitting at, and what's suggested for an Elk?
@dankcincy I was trying to run energy calculations today but my Hornady app kept crashing. I have heavier bullets but the 139s were what I had the most if so I tried them first and they worked well in my rifle. Also the recoil is less than 308s that I've shot. I think considering I mostly shoot at 100 yards and the range available for me to practice only goes to 300, I probably won't be shooting at elk at 500 yards anyways. I think the 139s will do great on a cow elk at 400 which I'll probably be setting as my absolute maximum
Hi Jim Lord of GunUA-cam. Allways fun and fact`s you bring to the table. I have no experience with 7mm PRC but I have had 30-06 for quite some time (years and years) and I say that the speed you have on your "sheet" there in the video is under what a good handload can optain by about +100 fps with a 178 grain bullet. Otherwise thanx for good videos on the subject of guns`s and diverse realatet!-) Greetings from Finnmark/Norway
This is one of your best videos dealing with the 7 PRC. Every single point was something I ran into with my Fierce Mountain Reaper in 7PRC. That carbon ring builds up so fast.. even compared to the 300prc that also builds ring fast! Also with the tight chambering I ran into some factory loaded cx outfitter that would not chamber. My gunsmith confirmed that they were too tight to force the bolt down and use safety. Velocity is a real thing with the factory eldx and the fact they are using Staball HD instead of a Hogdon powder also means more temperature variations than the extreme lineup of powders.
Interesting take on the supposed powder issue. But Staball HD is temperature insensitive like the extreme powders. Also Hornady stated in one of their many interviews that they were using Reloader 26 to load the 7 PRC rounds. Now they are using Hodgdon powders for those load instead. .
@@louiscapasso4452 I haven't temp tested the staball HD yet but I have with the staball match and it was not temperature insensitive 100fps difference between 75 and 95 degrees.
@@410farm Heya. Do you live in America? That's going to be a big consideration when it comes to a custom build. Nice smooth aftermarket action with a triggertech diamond and a Bartlein 24 or 26 with the chassis of your choice would cost you roughly the same as the reaper and it would be superior IMO. But if you are not in the states and can't find a good gunsmith the half a year of more lead time it can take to get it done may be the deciding factor. The fact you can make a longer barrel gives you a lot more in that 7PRC chambering.. especially if you hand load. Bartlein also makes a carbon fibre barrel. Unfortunately I am in Canada so I went with fierce. Best of luck to you either way!
Never trust the box velocities on factory ammo. However Hornady's statement of unavailable powders causing the velocities to be well under their listed speeds may be true, but they did make a huge mistake by not informing the consumer and changing their speeds. Clearly this was done in an attempt to further promote their caliber that was already being tested balistically by the 6.8 Western. I find it interesting that after all this has come out that more ammo and rifle manufacturers havent taken a step away from the big red machine and admitted that the 6.8 is worth promoting and getting behind.
270 caliber is actually quite a niche diameter Theres not many options in the caliber until recently like the past 20 years the amount of SAAMI options has about doubled and many of the new options are thanks to the US military wanting the diameter hell for the longest time 270 Winchester was the only thing available from factory (Weatherby has one..... really obscure to say the least) USA is real the only one interested apparently as europe has never bothere with the 6.8 diameter
This isn’t an everyone else problem…… it’s a Winchester problem. They’re not “all In” committed so it’s not worth the tooling and set up runs for others…… more ammo being sold is good for every ammo manufacturer … Brand X doesn’t care what ammo cartridge you buy for… as long as you buy from them and the more calibers you buy the better……
@theprfesssor I think that's mostly a historical reason. The 270 has been around a long time. Meanwhile, Mauser was producing loads of 7mm rifles for foreign contracts and domestic sale. But there's definitely some interest in foreign markets. Actually the gun I bought had reviews in Australia and England. Which I definitely didn't expect to see.
I think the best way to avoid problem number 2 is to not treat your precision hunting rifle like an AK and clean the damn thing after you're done shooting it
Hard no from me. I don’t want to clean anything other than my bolt and chamber at that interval. I shoot 40-80 rounds in a training session several times a month all year round. Having a rifle I have to baby and stop to clean mid-training session is absolutely unacceptable if you actually shoot a little. A barrel is barely even fouled and settled in after cleaning until it’s got 5-10 rounds through it, then I get 30 rounds of operation before I have to reset it again? That ain’t it.
Cleaning every 40 is NOT normal. Absolutely unnecessary unless you're super low on hobbies, precision or not. Comparing wanting to use solvents and a brush every 100-200 to battlefield AK abuse is borderline hysterics.
@@MrCobb-rq8ivnothing wrong with a 30-06 but mine hasn’t left the safe since I bought a 6.5prc. Just because you stick to the old dog that still works doesn’t mean theses new cartridges are BS.
I work at a major ammo manufacturer in minnesota. We have issues with 6 , 6.5 , and 7mm prc burning the throat out of our test rifles in 600 rounds or less.
I think you're right with this. I have a 6.5 PRC it is starting to go south on me. I might put a new barrel on it and put it back in the safe or find someone who wants it. I've had better luck with more of the common cartages, that work just fine. Thanks for your input.
I tried several brands. Chronographed them all. By far, federal has been the best. The 175gr eldx federal load out of a 22" bergara with a nomad TI, I have been pushing averaging just over 2925 fps. Groups great, too. The hornadys were all terrible. Almost 200fps slower in some loadings.
Great video! Whenever you take a high performance cartridge and push it to the limits, all the small stuff matters. I love the cleaning advice and watching for over pressure if you're a hand loader. The Hornady ammo thing was a bit strange. I'm disappointed with how they handled it. I tend to like a heavier gun set up(7to7-1/2lbs) due to recoil. Anyway. Keep'em coming!
There are at least a dozen cartridges in the "mid-tier" that are nearly identical. I doubt you could tell the difference between them on animals and targets near and far.
My custom 284 Win with throated out chamber and 26" barrel shoot 180gr Berger VLDs at 2945. My 7mag shoots the same bullet out of 26" barrel and a SAAMI chamber at 2980 with the bullet seated out as far as I can. Super happy with both set-ups!
The 7 mag has been so good for so long for good reason, it delivers the goods without the dangers. But we will always try to improve and that’s not a bad thing.
On your drop chart around 9 mins in your video. I wish you showed the comparison between .300 win mag, 7 rem mag and the 6.8 western. I like seeing the drop chart like that. Great video bossman!
Hey Twinky! i LOVE that hat!!!! I'm a Payroc rep in NC!!!!!!!! Very glad to see you sporting that swag!!!!! Jim, please make sure he see's this comment!!!!
I'm handloading for my Bergara Crest in 7 PRC. 2850 fps out of that short barrel with 175 grn. ELD-X with 66.9 grains of H1000. 1/2 to 3/4 MOA precision.
Visited a Scheels in Utah. Hunt manager said the 7 prc if flying off the shelf. Out west they have different needs and wants than us with trees and humidity. Lol
Super different. People that think 300 yards is a long shot and can't see that far on an average hunt DO NOT understand how fast it can happen, particularly in mountain hunting.
@mr.mr.3301 That's part of it but lots of it is adding elevation. It makes gaps and breaks and long sitelines. Above treeline is worse but even hunting moose in valleys you'll find spots where 350 or 400 yards is your only shot. Not because you can't get closer, but because you won't see the animal until it's in eye-poke range lol. Mission always dictates kit. I just find it funny when Eastern whitetail hunters shout about how "unnecessary" the advancements are when they've never tried hunting out here.
@mr.mr.3301 Usually both are, context is very relevant. There's certain things that are more factual, like the fact your bullet construction has more to do with shot damage than caliber, but that's getting into the physics aide of the argument. For best shot placement, best gear, etc. There is a ton of subjectivity.
I love my Tikka T3X CTR in 6.5 PRC. I reload with Lapua brass, and Berger bullets for target use. I use the 153.5 grain berger with 53 grains of N560. Shoots great with no pressure signs. Consistently shoots under 1/2 MOA, factory barrel.
I remember learning about this exact same pressure circus with my creedmoor. Same idea, but with cleaner pwder and less of it. What compounded it was copper in the rough factory button rifled barrel. I'd get to the range using the same load as normal and start getting primer leakage very suddenly. Or a loose primer. I knew my loads started safe so I was confused as could be.
You can find the same bullets in 6.5 or 7 mm and also in 6.8 for hunting the 68 Western is essentially for hunting and the bullet selection is pretty much the same in each caliber. I reload so doesn’t really matter but the only issue I have right now is that if I wanted to do 68 western there is no aftermarket brass at this point. I believe ADG was.
21? Bison hanger steak is the best red meat I've ever had as a trainned chef Gibs meat Yes the lack of scandinavian powder for the 7PRC is a real issue producing the adequate velocities
May I suggest 7 REM mag, 7 Weatherby mag, 7 Saum even. 7PRC is still in a volatile stage, and it may very well fail. Ammo mfg loading rounds well under listed ballistic data scares me, and that’s why I’ve stayed away from the 7PRC. Too many variables with this cartridge and I predict it will fail.
I'm looking to get a all around rifle (big game/ long range precision shooting) and i read in a forum that if you already have a 300PRC you should get a 6.5 prc for smaller game, but if you dont have any PRCs, that a 7 PRC is the best of both worlds.
That carbon ring in the chamber and throat takes much more than solvent and a couple patches. It will take many strokes with a brass brush, a few patches, and repeat. A good solvent for carbon rings is a penetrating oil called Free All
Once upon a time, I almost regretted buying a 6.8 Western because of the 7 PRC and its popularity. Now i just sit back and feel great about my decision
@@Not-the-only-one I have a couple of hunting buddies that really like their 7 PRC’s as well. It’s a shame there is a company (Hornady) trying to alleviate another cartridge. It should be the consumers choice, period. Trying to blackball a cartridge is just BS. I love my 6.5 PRC, but the antics of Hornady these last couple of years has turned me off to their products. I’ll never purchase another Hornady product again. I’ll purchase Federal and Nosler ammo before I purchase Hornady. Freedom of choose is good. Enjoy your PRC, it’s a terrific cartridge
I've said it before and you quote me on this. Hornady is going to release an update to the chamber just like they did with the 6.5. my 7prc shoots like ass so bad that I sent it back
7PRC gets a yawn and hard pass from me. If it requires an unobtanium Alliant powder (Reloder 26) to achieve significance, I'm out. The 300 PRC is a more interesting concept, and only marginally. The 6.5 PRC is the only appealing one of the three to me. It's close to 264 Win Mag with modern design improvments. The fact that 264 brass is extremely scarce and you can't swing a dead cat without hitting 6.5 PRC brass and ammo doesn't hurt.
We have a .243 a .270 a 308 a 30.06 a 7 mm mag and a 300mag. These rifles and calibers have been around for ages. They will take care of anything on this continent. Why do we keep coming up with WSM,s PRC,s and all these others that will be nowhere to be found in 20 yrs. So what 100 fps. Stay with what we have and what works for decades.
to the average hunter that doesn’t take shots over 600 yards there’s no benefit. If you want to shoot at targets past 600 yards there’s benefits to these new cartridge designs. For one you can shoot higher NC bullets that increase your hit percentage at longer ranges. They are also redesigning the chambers with greater head height so you can get the bullet out of the case a little more, allowing you to use more powder.
Problem 5 with the hornady ammo is the one major complaint I have against hornady. Seriously, this is not the not the first time they have done something like that. Actually, they did the same thing about 2 years ago with a lot of 6mm creed match ammo. Another one, too is the 6.5 eldm bcs. They have one mythical test where they got a g7 of 6.2 something, way higher than any other bullet in that weight class. But when people using it are getting their data, no one is coming close to that number. Same kind of answer we got from them of oh we changed the design a little because we had qc issues with the last one, but then they still are advertising the previous designs numbers to this day years later. It's to the point that I feel like it's false advertising.
I'm sticking with my 7 PRC. No cartridge is perfect especially shooting factory ammo. I have shot my 7 PRC out to a mile with the factory Hornady 180 ELD-M's. It was consistent enough in my rifle to make back to back hits at a mile on several occasions. Velocity was 2875 out of my 26 inch barrel. The Federal 175 ELD-X averages 3020fps in my rifle and shoots accurately out to 1200 yards so far. I'm going to test it at the mile soon. I don't hunt just shoot steels at long ranges.
@@410farm If you mean brand of rifle, I bought a barrel, head space gauges, chassis and scope and assembled myself. It was originally a Remington 700 Sendero 7mm Magnum. Barrel swap and now it's a 7 PRC. I'm very happy with the conversion.
200ft/sec difference + silence is CRIMINAL. Also, maybe the 284win is the correct step down from 7PRC if you handload. Especially if you are shooting in the 168gr class of bullets. The BC and speed is still great but the recoil is much more manageable.
" Transparency " from ammunition mfg. If you shoot a high-performance load like 7 PRC and you're not handloading and don't at least have a friend with a chronograph , are you really going to get any kind of success ? The hand loading and load work up are a big part of the enjoyment of a load like this. I love it !
At some point Hornady needs to be sued for false advertising. You spend $3k on a rifle to shoot ammunition that meets a certain spec. Then they stop production of that ammo because they can’t meet the spec, regardless of the reason. This just confirms the lack of R&D just to get something new out. I’m sure the Rifle manufacturers couldn’t care less. I’m sure they’re happy about it because they get to sell another rifle chambered in the next Hyped cartridge.
Not to mention, they released a new cartridge KNOWING they had a limited supply or the ideal propellant. They were worried about the 6.8 Western and had to rush the 7mmPRC with the good propellant to beat the 6.8 Western. Then a few months later they say they ran out of powder and had to use another type that retained their accuracy and consistency criteria. I'll call them out on that one. In the years it took them to develop 7mmPRC, they tested ALL the appropriate powders and knew what these powders could do in the cartridge. Once they ran out of the good powder, they chose another one that was just OK and that they had a lot of.
@@larrymars649 “I’m sure they’re happy about it because they get to sell another rifle chamber in the next Hyped cartridge”. Not sure any “hyped” was capitalized. Let’s state some facts. Muzzle velocity printed on a box has never been gospel. Muzzle velocities on ammo has always varied based on supply chains; which is why many companies don’t print it. How could Hornady predict a shortage of the two or three powders they are using? How come nobody is mad the other cartridges Hornady makes using the same powder are also slower? SAAMI-spec is the only reasonable expectation of ammo you can have. Dimensional tolerances and a minimum and maximum pressure. Velocity is always a wash as is accuracy because there are so many factors going into it.
Hyped” because it was ABSOLUTELY, far and wide throughout the firearms community in YT…was it not? If the product is falling that far short of claimed specs, then they’re liable regardless. We have reasonable expectations the firearm industry is held to the same standards as any consumer product manufacturing quality.
I am an experienced handloader, and have an old but good 7mm rem mag. Given the cost of rebarreling an old rifle or buying a new one, would there be any real advantages to a 7prc as opposed to just rebarreling the old 7 mag with a faster twist rate? Again, I am an experienced handloader, so I'm not concerned with factory ammo differences. Seems like the gains of the prc would be minimal in my case
this is exactally why i bought federal premium in 175g eldx. i absolutly love hornady and thats all i shoot. but iam not waisting hard earned money in my 7mm prc with theyre ammo. ill be switching to federal ammo
@dankcincy I had my 300 PRC for around 4 years now, and I have not had an issue. I just keep it clean. It also is a larger round, so maybe that makes a difference. All I know is my 300 PRC works great and I use a 7mm rem mag for the medium range shots.
With mag pro powder this weekend and 180s I was getting 2702-2712 velocities and hitting out to 600 pretty easily. Everyone craves speed but accuracy is key. I agree though they should def give you the truth of what’s in the box and not bs everyone because not everyone looks at the chrono box to box and that could ruin a hunt or even cause a stray bullet.
It is my experience, that 95% of shooters, really can't handle recoil energy above 18 ft-lbs. Even the .30-06 is too much recoil for most shooters. The 7mm PRC is WAY beyond the tolerance level for most shooters. It is also my experience, that this recoil aversion is getting worse. 50 years ago, nobody complained about the .30-06 recoil.
50 years ago they weren't shooting 6lb rifles with plastic stock. Standard weight naked rifles were between 7.5 and 8.5lbs. Magnums were heavier. I remember shooting an old 300 Win Mag Ruger M77 and checking the cartridge caliber again because I couldn't believe how little recoil it had. It actually felt very close to my 7mm-08. When I got home I weighed it and it was almost 12 lbs. My 7mm-08 weighs 7.5 lbs. Its not recoil energy that hurts as much as recoil velocity.
Yeah, many would hate my Winchester Model 70 in 338 win mag with NO muzzle brake. I am not a big man 5'8" but I was shooting a 10 gage shot gun at 13 and 30/06 at 12. By 18 I could handle the recoil from that 338 of my Dad's. He passed on in 2003 but He did see me hammer a 350 6x6 Elk in 1998 with that 338 win mag. You can work up in recoil to large rifles, but you should start lower and learn to handle the middle road recoil rifles (30/06, 7mm Mag, etc.) first.
@denisleblanc4506 weight is a good point, but my buddy has a rifle that's been in the family since war days with a metal butt plate. It's a bruiser! Then our lightweight tikka in 30-06 is only around 6.5 lbs loaded and is a joy to shoot with a limbsaver (soon to be a Backstop)
Hi there from a Wyoming neighbor! Maybe a parallel question. I have a 6.5 prc. A couple months ago I was blowing primers... completely out of the brass. Took it to the local shop, he said it was too much pressure, chamber etc was fine. It was e-ldx. I haven't had the same issue with Norma or federal ammo. Now, do you recommend cleaning a 6.5 prc every 40 rounds like the 7 prc to avoid the carbon ring? TYIA!
I don't think I have ever run a single rifle, or handload of any there in, at or below SAAMI Max pressure recommendation. My personal pressure limit is just where the primers just begin to flatten. I do not go as far now, as allowing minor cratering like I did when I was younger. I only ever had cases fail after 10 or more reloadings in my Ackley chambers. Just pulled in half upon extraction attempt, no catastrophic failures. Primer pockets remained serviceable and I burnt out each barrel still well into an agreeable life span. One of my .223 Ackley Improved rifles a standard Remington SPS-V lasted in estimate of 15k rounds before barrel burnt out. I only had maybe 5 cases fail in it in its life. Chamber remained perfect rifling was the failure.
I picked up a 7mm PRC and agree that the Hornady stuff underperforms but the Barnes VOR-TEX 160gr is shoooting great and is consistently clocking in around 3050 which is what they advertised on the box. Just picked up a box of the federal ascent 170gr and look forward to testing that. If i could do it all again i would probably pick up a different cartridge. This ammo is so incredibly over priced compared to everything else. You can get a box or 7mm rem for about $23 a box near me, while the 7mm PRC is about $75 a box not counting the insane like 20% tax on ammo in California. Now, does this shoot 3x as good as 7mm rem? No. There is absolutely no reason this ammo should be this expensive and underperforming on top of it.
Any Cartridge that is that needy and or picky will never preform to it's full potential with factory ammunition and the 7PRC is just that if you hand load you will love it and have no issues with pressure or velocity as you can control both of those issues .
For the vast majority of big game hunters, 225 to 250 yards is probably the max range at which a shot should be taken, and many struggle at ranges over 175 to 200. So basically, unless a new cartridge help someone shoot markedly better at these ranges, there is very little need for them overall.
OK I have watched this video twice, So if you want 7mm prc ( and I do) A. get a slightly heaver gun, (noted on your saco 20 review) B. use recoil mitigation tools, a break and a recoil pad, and clean it regularly. C. reload or verify your velocity with each box of factory ammo you use. Did I miss something? The take down of the bison was impressive. The shot looked a little low for high shoulder, I would be curious what bullet you used and the penetration you got with it. I would like to see the Bretta BRX in a 7mm prc, I'm thinking the europeans are waiting are waiting for the chambering issues work them selves out a little more . Your thoughts? Happy 4th of July
I shoot a lot, at least 30 rounds a week, only cleaning my rifle every 300 rounds or so. But run a bore snake through the barrel once after I am done shooting for the day removing the carbon. I do not get a carbon ring. The carbon comes out like a puff of smoke when as the bore snake leaves the barrel.
I just hope Hornady didn't kill a great cartridge with false advertising. I love my 7mm prc. It gets sub moa with everything I have shot. I don't shoot factory loads in any of my rifles. I am getting near 3000 fps with Nosler 175 gn ABLR hand loads.
@@danblumel The 6.5 PRC is short enough to adapt to an AR platform the 7 PRC is no where close to fitting AR platform without drastic modifications and cost. The 6.5 PRC doesn't even compete with the 7 PRC. Now the 6.8 Western happens to be short enough to fit an AR platform was made to compete and beat with the 6.5 PRC and not only handles that with no issue but competes with and damn near beats 7 PRC... so yeah 6.8 Western is the best of the 3 as it can handle more jobs than either of the other two.
@@danblumel yes the 6.5 beats out the .270 Win. but I never compared the .270 Win. to the 6.5 prc I just said my Last Muley was taken with it. I compared the 6.5 prc to the 6.8 western which carries 150 ft lbs of energy more than the 6.5 prc at 1,000 yards. Now what is funny everyone I end up talking with that are super hung up on splitting hairs over BC can never seem to shoot past 400 yards. I live in Kansas and we shoot long range if you are not comfortable shooting a deer at 300 then you may never get a monster out here as rut is over here when rifle season start and they stop being stupid and become kings of disappearing, can you get inside that yes many times but not every time and less often on old bucks. So if you have a 300 to 400 yard shot on one you should be confident to take the shot or accept you might not see it again. Kansas is also almost all private land. So also if they leave your land you might not get a chance at it again the rest of the year as they may stay on kand you do not have permission to hunt and won't get it, as many farmers here are now contracting their land to outfitters.
Bruce hodgdon when he first formulated his reloading manual and did his load testing for himself. A very simple method of measuring pressure is measuring the case head diameter before you fire and the case head diameter after you fire 1/64th past the extractor groove if you get more than 0.0005 stretch in your brass that is too much pressure. Any more than that and your primer pockets will be so loose after two or three firings you won't be able to keep a primer in it. And somehow the industry has gotten away from that. That is literally the most reliable way to measure any kind of pressure without having a transducer, usually 0.0006 to .0007 you starting to really notice the extractor Shadow on the rim, you have to be careful about looking at primers because some primers will flatten more than the others and it's just the nature of the cartridge. When you start to see the ejector Shadow, that's your first true sign of pressure, not all guns are the same. Some of my guns will shoot a middle charge weight at maximum velocities and most of that comes down to the chamber dimensions and being on the tighter side of tolerances
Been hand loading and building 7Dakota for 20 years. 7PRC is just another cartridge to keep the ammo makers and pill launchers in business. A effing joke to those needing something new. 7Dak has no problem reaching 1760 yds with any number of high BC pills and 9 or faster twist. I still have Cauterrucio's hand made 190s along with several others. 162 180,189 and others. 162 RBT in 9twist is an uncompromising combo. Retumbo works very well as does Magpro in all up to 190.
So I'm building out my 7prc now. Which is a good muzzle break you would recommend? 1/2 x28 threads is the muzzle threads? Or would I be better off spending the money on a banish back country? As a note. I plan to hand load everything. And I clean guns after every use. Regardless of round count
I went with the 28 nosler over the 7prc don’t do much long range shooting mostly just hunting I live in British Columbia and most of my shots are over 300 the Nos has a lot more energy past that 7 prc looks like a good round tho.
So the more traditional cartridges were better designed for hunting. They had looser chambers and more body taper. They also have more clearance in the neck area. They were designed that way for a reason. They had to work under less than ideal conditions. I had never heard of factory ammunition before the advent of the modern designed cartridge cases. I'm not saying that a carbon ring is a not a problem but it is much less of a problem in traditional calibers. With modern cartridges anything in the chamber or non-perfect brass even runout can make it difficult to close the bolt. Let's face it, these modern ones are designed to wring out the most accuracy. They are target and competition designs. Sure they can kill at slightly longer distances. But traditional cartridges were already effective at ethical hunting distances. You want to shoot at targets at ridiculous ranges they're the ticket. But once you talk about hunting and field conditions, it's a totally different use. These new calibers may increase your hit probability, but the difference is not very significant and certainly not enough to make a real difference.
My takeaway here is that the “precision” in PRC specs might be too tight for the real world - at least the vast majority of riflemen. Hornady pushed everything - pressure, tolerances, powder choice - to the max in order to get incremental improvement over 6.8 Western and/or 280 Ackley Improved - and in aggregate they pushed too far.
I’m a middle aged dude. 6’1” and 220 in real life. Rode bulls, legit cowboy. I was weaned on 30-06. Built my own FAL before youtube was a thing. I prefer 6.5 PRC because I’m not man enough to shoot a reasonably packable hunting rifle with any more recoil. I see modern veal men shooting these heavy recoiling rifles and flinching badly.
I’ve thought about the issue of recoil in rifles today. Been around a long time. Be 80 in September. Grew up shooting military surplus rifles in 30-06. Springfield 03, 03A3, Enfield 1917. My dad bought the Enfield through the mail. Delivered to the door for $22.00 in 1958. Anyway, that Enfield 06 felt like it weighed 15 pounds. Shot it a bunch. Open sights. We were certainly no more recoil tuff than you guys today. I just think rifles today are much better but also much, much lighter. The only magnum out was the 300 Holland and Holland. 300 Win Mag…. What’s that Six pound rifles made of titanium with carbon fiber wrapped barrels…. Huh?? Tell you what, I want no part of any caliber over 6.5 today. 👍
Hey Jim. I’m not necessarily a new shooter, but I haven’t shot a rifle chambered over 5.56 in several years (like a decade). Recently have become very interested in long range shooting and hunting (400yds or less). I have been considering a 7PRC vs 7 REM mag, but after watching this I’m reconsidering “stepping down” a class. The question I’d ask is what caliber would you suggest for some distance range shooting (90% of use), hunting (live in CO so elk is on the menu), and available in factory ammo as I do not reload (yet)?
The transparency issue with Hornady has always been my problem with the 7mm PRC. The fact that they did not change the numbers on their packaging when they knew it had changed is not acceptable.
Packaging I can forgive... to this day it's still listed at 3000 on the website - conveniently identical to the outfitter cx to save on printing cost of seperate labels 😅
Yeah I never really liked hornady for any serious hunting because 1. they no longer make any serious hunting bullets, its all cup and core or copper which performs like shit and 2. because everything except their superformace loads are underpowered for the cartridge.
Shot placement shot placement shot placement -practice practice practice does no one practice with the same Ammo they’re going to hunt with and know how it shoots before you go try and shoot an animal? I was hunting with a very knowledgeable Gun person. He chose not to shoot his gun before he went hunting after a flight. It was 16 inches off… he shot a bear in the face …so whose fault was it the ammo or the person aiming the gun???
@@BWalden-v6o well to be fair, shot placement is harder when you're guessing at the drop/provided misleading and false information on the box of ammo.
Hornady really screwed up with the fact that they didn't change the labeling, then followed that up by trying to backpedal and make excuses about it. It wouldn't have been an issue if they updated the label and posted a statement or video about the change right when it happened. Hard lessons to learn in PR and customer service... Reputations are easy to destroy and hard to restore.
Hi Jim, I was there on day 2 and had the problem with the loose action screws. As it turned out, the back screw was loose and located under the front of the trigger guard. Once both screws were torqued properly, I resighted in yesterday and shot a 0.812" group, which is what I was expecting. The back screw that was stripped was the read trigger guard screw, glad it was only the trigger guard screw. Had a great time, really a treat to meet with you and Tate. Great fun. Processed all the meat the next day. A very memorable experience. Thanks so much.
I was there too, 6.5 PRC and M1 Garand guy.
You are 100% correct, Federal Terminal Ascent out of my Seekins gets 3010 FPS at 700 ft elevation in Oklahoma
The ascent are some amazing bullets. My 7rem loves Hornady super performance and terminal ascent. I waited on the 7prc in hopes Hornady gets their powder issues taken care of. Really wanting that waypoint in 7prc but might hold off and grab a sako 85 in 7rem then rebarrel in a year or 2
The Federal with Hornady ELDX is also awesome. I've seen very close fps with both the ELDX and terminal ascent
I completely agree. I have a Bergara Carbon Crest 7 PRC with a 22" barrel and a Dead Air Nomad can on the end and I am averaging 3021 fps with the federal terminal ascent. Out of about 40 terminal ascent rounds shot thus far they have all been over 3000 fps. Using a Garmin Xero C1. It is also the most accurate bullet out of this particular rifle with 3/4" moa. The Hornady ELD-X was averaging 2780 with their crap powder. Hornady's Match wasn't any better either. The Federal ELD-X was averaging 2933 fps for me. I do not reload and for my particular use, hunting, I am loving the round and my rifle performance.
Yep I have got 3,008 in the terminal ascent
@zr2overlander323 I have got a half Moa in the 170 terminal ascent in my opinion it is the round to use in the 7prc I'm getting around 3,010 24 inch barrel
Love my 7PRC. It shot sub-moa with every ammo I tried and the Federal is getting close to the FPS advertised even with a shorter barrel. I like it so much that I bought 25 boxes of Federal just to be set for a long time.
I've literally shot 10 different ammo types through my PRC and they have all been sub moa. Sure some are much slower but the accuracy hasn't been an issue.
I’m getting one here shortly just wondering what rifle you chose and liked ?
Agree on the Federal ammo. Their ELDX ammo is 3000fps in all of my 7PRCs
HAHAHAHA really?????? HAHAHAHA
Am feeling happier with my choice to go 7 rem mag w Springfield 2020 waypoint. It has 1/8 twist. Had good rough site in in somewhat windy conditions. Just got my suppressor in last month and trying to beat NM weather one of these weekends and get some serious sighting-in going. I wanted 7 PRC originally but am settling into my 7 rem mag decision
The headstamp on the brass has zero effect on the performance of a rifle. Once people realize that, we all win
That NM weather is so bi polar bro. It’s 100 one day and 37 the next with 47 mph winds 🤣🤣
@@dyllandominguez5548 Yep - My son took a 4x5 Bull with this rifle during our recent Oct hunt - and weather was short sleeves T shirt day one, thermal underwear and down coat day two lol🤣Friends of ours hunting same area the next week - big snow storm, all data and insights were mostly useless to them - our dry conditions forcing elk to a handful of water holes gave way to pockets of water for them everywhere and 6 inches of snow.
Hornady did the same thing with tight chamber specs going back to at least the 6.5 CM.
I love seeing people cry about the velocity. Everyone wanted it to be a wonder cartridge, so Hornady went along with it. Knowledgeable reloaders saw it for what it was and listened to what Hornady said it was. An updated 7mm Rem optimized for shooting longer bullets off the shelf. Yeah, they should have been more up front about the change in their ammunition, but consumers should have been more skeptical of the marketing.
In case anyone has missed the pattern with Hornady:
6.5 CM = updated 260 Rem/6.5 x 55.
300 PRC = updated 300 Win.
7mm PRC = Updated 7mm Rem
6.5 PRC = Updated 6.5-284.
They're taking cartridges that have been around, tweaking the case design in favor of longer bullets, then specifying tighter chambers and faster twist barrels. Basically, what the custom market did with custom reamers did for the older cartridges.
Anyone that expects earth shattering differences in performance of the new cartridges vs. the old, needs to step away from the kool-aid.
6.5 PRC is closer to .264 win mag than 6.5-284 but potato patato
@bozaiwarrior tell me how your comment makes sense? 6.5-284 has 2-3 grains less case capacity than the 6.5 PRC. The 264 Win has close to 18 grains more capacity than the 6.5 PRC.
An updated 264 Win would be based off of the 7 PRC case. Not off of the now obscure RCM line like the 6.5 PRC is.
Marketing hype , till the next one comes out.
My old mate I asked about this when it was being spoken about first off, his response. " I have a .284 improved. " he wasn't all that wrong I don't think.
@@theleo91386 and like the 264 win it will be the same performance as the .270. a real lateral move.
Was using a 308 for hunting Elk for the past three years. Was successful one out of those three years. However, I blame myself for last year missing one due to not having a range finder and missing low. However, this year I got sucked into the 7 PRC band wagon. Had the gun smith put a Leupold VX-3HD 4.5-14X50 CDS-ZL DUPLEX scope. Son and I were out in Wyoming in the mountains during Thanksgiving. Came upon 8 cows. Was 275-300 yards up on a hill as the cows were down on the other side of the mountain. Got situated set the cross hairs exactly at the sweet spot. Squeezed the trigger, and it dropped like a sack of potatoes. It was a clean ethical kill. 10 seconds later son got the other cow just to the right of mine. When we went to process it, I noticed when we skinned it. The lungs were popping outside the rib cage. Also noticed way more blood under the hide vs my son’s 300 WSM. He shot very close to where I shot mine. Anyone have an answer for why?
I distinctly remember on a Backcountry Hunting Podcast with JVB that the ballistions at Hornady proudly told him at a trade show that 7 prc doesn't develop a carbon ring
What? Are you sure? Link?
@@thepracticalrifleman i can't remember exactly which episode it is... But I'm almost certain it's in the 7 prc new cartridge episode or in the 7 rem mag vs 7 prc episode.
@@jackbuendgen389 I’d like to hear it because it is literally impossible. Carbon-rings happen to EVERY cartridge if the area between the chamber and the leade aren’t maintained. Magnums it happens faster.
Never had any issues with mine. I pre ordered a proof research barrel before they came out and I couldn’t have been happier. I wasn’t expecting the velocities hornady advertised since I didn’t have any RL 25 or 26. I’m sure that’s how they got the speed. I shoot 175 ablr with retumbo for a hunting load at 3030 fps, and 180 eld-m with N560. The primer pockets got loose really fast with the hornady brass from the boxes of precision hunter I purchased for break in, but I have 7 reloads on the 200 pieces of adg brass I purchased and the pockets are still really firm. I do run them on the hotter side and anneal, for what it’s worth. It seems to me that most of the people that are running into pressure, are the people who are trying to chase the speed that hornady advertised for the 7prc. lol. You get what you get, but you should also be loading for accuracy and not speed. If speed is king, go with the 28 nosler. I have a 26” barrel btw.
Do you think the RL 25 or 26 are the best for loading the 7mm PRC?
@@kevinlee5122 not necessarily, but RL26 is a speed king that is more temp stable than RL25. Grand is also a higher velocity powder that is supposed to be “temp stable”. I tried viht 565 and 570. Both gave velocities in the 3k+ with amazing accuracy. 565 is super to be temp stable as well, and with my testing, I’ve found it to be true. 570 gave better accuracy, but with the weather I get and the distances I shoot, I’d prefer temp stability. I’ve been able to shoot under .5 moa and better out to 980 yards. With every powder I’ve shot. I decided on 69.5 grains of retumbo, at 3030 fps. SD 2 ES 5. Fed 215 with adg brass. Flattened primers at 71.5 grains.
@leonardogarcirecumbent? Like mt loads to be as accurate as they can be. That being said, do you like 570 or retumbo better for accuracy?
“At this distance, that’s a hit.” Nah man a miss is always a miss.
Agreed Even at a mile those closer shots aren't even worth cheering about
these are hunting rifles and shooters - they're never going to practically shoot them at anything that far out
But, then there's grenades and horse shoes
Hits and misses are qualified by the target intended. Shooting a pea at 2 miles, you better hit the pea or it's a miss. Intended to hit a 6-foot diameter gong instead? Well, call it.
you can call yourself undefeated even if you lose a game, just ask Kamala
A QR code with LOT information is genius. They all should start this.
YES
So glad I opted for the 7mm rem mag
I traded my 7mm Rem Mag for a 7mm PRC and very happy
@@sinistersilverado965 HAHAHAHAHA
Same here. I ended up finding a used 7 rem mag in a Christensen. Peace of mind and a great track record cannot be bought.
Jim congrats on your remarks, best wishes from Brazil 🎉
I always thought the 7 Mag had too sharp of a kick. I like the 300 Win Mag more than the 7mm. But my favorite now is my Christensen Mesa in 6.5 PRC. That gun is very accurate and a mild kicker. Too light for some folks but the 140 Grain premium bullet will kill anything I need to shoot, including Far West Texas Aoudad!
Do I need to reorder my backstop pad since my 3 emails were during the fubar time period?
what's your longest shots with that rifle and a 140grain if u don't mind me asking? im talking about shooting steel btw.
@ That gun about 250 yards on game. Haven’t shot steel. Nothing around Corpus Christi to stretch it out.
Glad you are letting people know about these issues. The 6.5prc is actually worse for carbon build up, coming straight from Hornady. I chased my tail for months trying to figure out why I had random signs of pressure and now I will buy a bore scope and clean after every range day to insure there is no carbon build up.
I decided to go ahead and get a used 7 rem mag instead of a 7 PRC. I'm glad I did because I'm getting over 3200 fps. I just zeroed my rifle this weekend at 300 yards for an elk hunt. Recoil is definitely manageable with a good recoil pad and a clamp on muzzle break
3200 with what bullet?
@@dankcincy 139 SST
@@Drakehilt At 500yrds, a 180 leaving out at 3k is hitting at somewhere around 2250 ft/lb. What's that 139 hitting at, and what's suggested for an Elk?
@dankcincy I was trying to run energy calculations today but my Hornady app kept crashing. I have heavier bullets but the 139s were what I had the most if so I tried them first and they worked well in my rifle. Also the recoil is less than 308s that I've shot. I think considering I mostly shoot at 100 yards and the range available for me to practice only goes to 300, I probably won't be shooting at elk at 500 yards anyways. I think the 139s will do great on a cow elk at 400 which I'll probably be setting as my absolute maximum
@dankcincy also most people aren't getting 3k out of the 7PRC. Most people are getting 2700-2800
THANK YOU BACKFIRE, just talked me out of prc, ill stick to 7 Rem mag, and my 300 Wby
Hi Jim Lord of GunUA-cam. Allways fun and fact`s you bring to the table. I have no experience with 7mm PRC but I have had 30-06 for quite some time (years and years) and I say that the speed you have on your "sheet" there in the video is under what a good handload can optain by about +100 fps with a 178 grain bullet. Otherwise thanx for good videos on the subject of guns`s and diverse realatet!-)
Greetings from Finnmark/Norway
This is one of your best videos dealing with the 7 PRC. Every single point was something I ran into with my Fierce Mountain Reaper in 7PRC. That carbon ring builds up so fast.. even compared to the 300prc that also builds ring fast!
Also with the tight chambering I ran into some factory loaded cx outfitter that would not chamber. My gunsmith confirmed that they were too tight to force the bolt down and use safety.
Velocity is a real thing with the factory eldx and the fact they are using Staball HD instead of a Hogdon powder also means more temperature variations than the extreme lineup of powders.
Interesting take on the supposed powder issue. But Staball HD is temperature insensitive like the extreme powders. Also Hornady stated in one of their many interviews that they were using Reloader 26 to load the 7 PRC rounds. Now they are using Hodgdon powders for those load instead. .
@@louiscapasso4452 I haven't temp tested the staball HD yet but I have with the staball match and it was not temperature insensitive 100fps difference between 75 and 95 degrees.
Hodgdon doesn't make powder. ADI in Australia makes the "extreme" single base extruded and St Marks in Florida makes the ball powder.
I’m considering a 7 mm PRC , are you happy with fierce ? I’m between that and a proof research rifle?
@@410farm Heya. Do you live in America? That's going to be a big consideration when it comes to a custom build.
Nice smooth aftermarket action with a triggertech diamond and a Bartlein 24 or 26 with the chassis of your choice would cost you roughly the same as the reaper and it would be superior IMO. But if you are not in the states and can't find a good gunsmith the half a year of more lead time it can take to get it done may be the deciding factor.
The fact you can make a longer barrel gives you a lot more in that 7PRC chambering.. especially if you hand load. Bartlein also makes a carbon fibre barrel.
Unfortunately I am in Canada so I went with fierce.
Best of luck to you either way!
Never trust the box velocities on factory ammo. However Hornady's statement of unavailable powders causing the velocities to be well under their listed speeds may be true, but they did make a huge mistake by not informing the consumer and changing their speeds. Clearly this was done in an attempt to further promote their caliber that was already being tested balistically by the 6.8 Western. I find it interesting that after all this has come out that more ammo and rifle manufacturers havent taken a step away from the big red machine and admitted that the 6.8 is worth promoting and getting behind.
270 caliber is actually quite a niche diameter
Theres not many options in the caliber until recently like the past 20 years the amount of SAAMI options has about doubled and many of the new options are thanks to the US military wanting the diameter hell for the longest time 270 Winchester was the only thing available from factory (Weatherby has one..... really obscure to say the least) USA is real the only one interested apparently as europe has never bothere with the 6.8 diameter
If the company that made it won't do this, then why should anyone else???
This isn’t an everyone else problem…… it’s a Winchester problem. They’re not “all In” committed so it’s not worth the tooling and set up runs for others…… more ammo being sold is good for every ammo manufacturer … Brand X doesn’t care what ammo cartridge you buy for… as long as you buy from them and the more calibers you buy the better……
@theprfesssor I think that's mostly a historical reason. The 270 has been around a long time. Meanwhile, Mauser was producing loads of 7mm rifles for foreign contracts and domestic sale. But there's definitely some interest in foreign markets. Actually the gun I bought had reviews in Australia and England. Which I definitely didn't expect to see.
I think the best way to avoid problem number 2 is to not treat your precision hunting rifle like an AK and clean the damn thing after you're done shooting it
Best, stay with 30.06 and don't buy into the magic new cartridges, I.E. don't buy into this PRC BS.
Hard no from me. I don’t want to clean anything other than my bolt and chamber at that interval. I shoot 40-80 rounds in a training session several times a month all year round.
Having a rifle I have to baby and stop to clean mid-training session is absolutely unacceptable if you actually shoot a little.
A barrel is barely even fouled and settled in after cleaning until it’s got 5-10 rounds through it, then I get 30 rounds of operation before I have to reset it again? That ain’t it.
Cleaning every 40 is NOT normal. Absolutely unnecessary unless you're super low on hobbies, precision or not. Comparing wanting to use solvents and a brush every 100-200 to battlefield AK abuse is borderline hysterics.
yepp
@@MrCobb-rq8ivnothing wrong with a 30-06 but mine hasn’t left the safe since I bought a 6.5prc. Just because you stick to the old dog that still works doesn’t mean theses new cartridges are BS.
I work at a major ammo manufacturer in minnesota. We have issues with 6 , 6.5 , and 7mm prc burning the throat out of our test rifles in 600 rounds or less.
I think you're right with this. I have a 6.5 PRC it is starting to go south on me. I might put a new barrel on it and put it back in the safe or find someone who wants it.
I've had better luck with more of the common cartages, that work just fine.
Thanks for your input.
Buy Bartlein mod400bb barrels. They last longer.
I tried several brands. Chronographed them all.
By far, federal has been the best. The 175gr eldx federal load out of a 22" bergara with a nomad TI, I have been pushing averaging just over 2925 fps. Groups great, too.
The hornadys were all terrible. Almost 200fps slower in some loadings.
Great video! Whenever you take a high performance cartridge and push it to the limits, all the small stuff matters. I love the cleaning advice and watching for over pressure if you're a hand loader. The Hornady ammo thing was a bit strange. I'm disappointed with how they handled it. I tend to like a heavier gun set up(7to7-1/2lbs) due to recoil. Anyway. Keep'em coming!
We need to demand more 6.8 western to revive the cartridge popularity. It is the best mid tier cartridge period
It's definitely not bad
There are at least a dozen cartridges in the "mid-tier" that are nearly identical. I doubt you could tell the difference between them on animals and targets near and far.
@@jasonshults368 oh nice which ones you referring too? I’d love to learn about all these cartridges
My custom 284 Win with throated out chamber and 26" barrel shoot 180gr Berger VLDs at 2945. My 7mag shoots the same bullet out of 26" barrel and a SAAMI chamber at 2980 with the bullet seated out as far as I can. Super happy with both set-ups!
I can see why Hornady hates the 6.8 Western. lol
Hornady is a corporation. Corporations don't have feelings. They exist only on paper.
I wanna see a 7mm western wildcat like the 7/6.5prcw
The 7 mag has been so good for so long for good reason, it delivers the goods without the dangers. But we will always try to improve and that’s not a bad thing.
On your drop chart around 9 mins in your video. I wish you showed the comparison between .300 win mag, 7 rem mag and the 6.8 western. I like seeing the drop chart like that. Great video bossman!
Hey Twinky! i LOVE that hat!!!! I'm a Payroc rep in NC!!!!!!!! Very glad to see you sporting that swag!!!!! Jim, please make sure he see's this comment!!!!
I'm handloading for my Bergara Crest in 7 PRC. 2850 fps out of that short barrel with 175 grn. ELD-X with 66.9 grains of H1000. 1/2 to 3/4 MOA precision.
20 or 22 inch?
I have the exact same rifle with a dead air nomad. Shooting 175gr berger elite hunters and it's taking me 67.9gr of H1000 to get 2850
Me too 😊
What neck bushing are you using
I have used stabal hd and im not imptessed with it yet im playing with seating depth now hopefully i can get it to shoot
6.8 Western is sounding like an all-around better cartridge compared to a 7 prc.
Gun and ammo manufacturers didn’t put their eggs in that basket like they did all the PRC rounds, even though other 6.8 rounds are doing great.
Firearm (and ammo) selection sucks
Mine works great 👍
Adam there is one better 28 nosler but more recoil
I think you mean 30-06
Visited a Scheels in Utah. Hunt manager said the 7 prc if flying off the shelf. Out west they have different needs and wants than us with trees and humidity. Lol
Super different. People that think 300 yards is a long shot and can't see that far on an average hunt DO NOT understand how fast it can happen, particularly in mountain hunting.
@@justinpeck3667 when you take trees out of the mix. That changes everything.
@mr.mr.3301 That's part of it but lots of it is adding elevation. It makes gaps and breaks and long sitelines.
Above treeline is worse but even hunting moose in valleys you'll find spots where 350 or 400 yards is your only shot. Not because you can't get closer, but because you won't see the animal until it's in eye-poke range lol.
Mission always dictates kit. I just find it funny when Eastern whitetail hunters shout about how "unnecessary" the advancements are when they've never tried hunting out here.
@@justinpeck3667 makes since. When I hear people argue about caliber and bullets. I sometimes think they are both right.
@mr.mr.3301 Usually both are, context is very relevant.
There's certain things that are more factual, like the fact your bullet construction has more to do with shot damage than caliber, but that's getting into the physics aide of the argument.
For best shot placement, best gear, etc. There is a ton of subjectivity.
I love my Tikka T3X CTR in 6.5 PRC. I reload with Lapua brass, and Berger bullets for target use. I use the 153.5 grain berger with 53 grains of N560. Shoots great with no pressure signs. Consistently shoots under 1/2 MOA, factory barrel.
I remember learning about this exact same pressure circus with my creedmoor. Same idea, but with cleaner pwder and less of it. What compounded it was copper in the rough factory button rifled barrel. I'd get to the range using the same load as normal and start getting primer leakage very suddenly. Or a loose primer. I knew my loads started safe so I was confused as could be.
You can find the same bullets in 6.5 or 7 mm and also in 6.8 for hunting the 68 Western is essentially for hunting and the bullet selection is pretty much the same in each caliber. I reload so doesn’t really matter but the only issue I have right now is that if I wanted to do 68 western there is no aftermarket brass at this point. I believe ADG was.
7-300 PRC is what I built for a lot of these reasons. Between 6.5 PRC, 280 AI, and now 7-300 PRC, I have all bases covered.
21? Bison hanger steak is the best red meat I've ever had as a trainned chef
Gibs meat
Yes the lack of scandinavian powder for the 7PRC is a real issue producing the adequate velocities
Yeah hanger steak. Once people find out what it is some freak.👍
My 300 win mag still goes bang bang so when you guys get this all figured out I'll be at the house drinking a beer. 😂
Get this guy another beer please!!! 👍👍👍👍
May I suggest 7 REM mag, 7 Weatherby mag, 7 Saum even. 7PRC is still in a volatile stage, and it may very well fail. Ammo mfg loading rounds well under listed ballistic data scares me, and that’s why I’ve stayed away from the 7PRC. Too many variables with this cartridge and I predict it will fail.
The 7 Weatherby is so sweet
I'm looking to get a all around rifle (big game/ long range precision shooting) and i read in a forum that if you already have a 300PRC you should get a 6.5 prc for smaller game, but if you dont have any PRCs, that a 7 PRC is the best of both worlds.
Can you provide an update on this ? Have they fixed the problem. Sounds like I don’t want a rifle chambered in 7mm prc
That carbon ring in the chamber and throat takes much more than solvent and a couple patches. It will take many strokes with a brass brush, a few patches, and repeat. A good solvent for carbon rings is a penetrating oil called Free All
Great video once again. Thanks for taking us on it. 👍👍👋👋🤝
Once upon a time, I almost regretted buying a 6.8 Western because of the 7 PRC and its popularity. Now i just sit back and feel great about my decision
I still cry in .270 WSM
I second that statement! I feel the same way. I’m loving my 6.8 Western
It’s great to have choices. I love my 7PRC
@@Not-the-only-one
I have a couple of hunting buddies that really like their 7 PRC’s as well.
It’s a shame there is a company (Hornady) trying to alleviate another cartridge. It should be the consumers choice, period. Trying to blackball a cartridge is just BS. I love my 6.5 PRC, but the antics of Hornady these last couple of years has turned me off to their products. I’ll never purchase another Hornady product again. I’ll purchase Federal and Nosler ammo before I purchase Hornady.
Freedom of choose is good.
Enjoy your PRC, it’s a terrific cartridge
@Not-the-only-one it's a great cartridge, Hornady just needs to adjust their numbers
It’s just not worth it. I’ll stay with the 7Mag and 280 Ackley.
The 280AI is a truly wonderful cartridge
Yep. Good explanation of the carbon ring.
I've said it before and you quote me on this. Hornady is going to release an update to the chamber just like they did with the 6.5. my 7prc shoots like ass so bad that I sent it back
7PRC gets a yawn and hard pass from me. If it requires an unobtanium Alliant powder (Reloder 26) to achieve significance, I'm out. The 300 PRC is a more interesting concept, and only marginally. The 6.5 PRC is the only appealing one of the three to me. It's close to 264 Win Mag with modern design improvments. The fact that 264 brass is extremely scarce and you can't swing a dead cat without hitting 6.5 PRC brass and ammo doesn't hurt.
We have a .243 a .270 a 308 a 30.06 a 7 mm mag and a 300mag. These rifles and calibers have been around for ages. They will take care of anything on this continent. Why do we keep coming up with WSM,s PRC,s and all these others that will be nowhere to be found in 20 yrs. So what 100 fps. Stay with what we have and what works for decades.
It's to keep selling new rifles.
to the average hunter that doesn’t take shots over 600 yards there’s no benefit. If you want to shoot at targets past 600 yards there’s benefits to these new cartridge designs. For one you can shoot higher NC bullets that increase your hit percentage at longer ranges. They are also redesigning the chambers with greater head height so you can get the bullet out of the case a little more, allowing you to use more powder.
You're not wrong.
Ok... we had horses before for years... why change to cars? Why inovate?
Agreed. Love those rounds. Why do people talk about recoil (aside youth and elderly). Too many soy boys worried about recoil.
Problem 5 with the hornady ammo is the one major complaint I have against hornady. Seriously, this is not the not the first time they have done something like that. Actually, they did the same thing about 2 years ago with a lot of 6mm creed match ammo. Another one, too is the 6.5 eldm bcs. They have one mythical test where they got a g7 of 6.2 something, way higher than any other bullet in that weight class. But when people using it are getting their data, no one is coming close to that number. Same kind of answer we got from them of oh we changed the design a little because we had qc issues with the last one, but then they still are advertising the previous designs numbers to this day years later. It's to the point that I feel like it's false advertising.
I'm sticking with my 7 PRC. No cartridge is perfect especially shooting factory ammo. I have shot my 7 PRC out to a mile with the factory Hornady 180 ELD-M's. It was consistent enough in my rifle to make back to back hits at a mile on several occasions.
Velocity was 2875 out of my 26 inch barrel. The Federal 175 ELD-X averages 3020fps in my rifle and shoots accurately out to 1200 yards so far. I'm going to test it at the mile soon. I don't hunt just shoot steels at long ranges.
What brand of gun did you go with ?
@@410farm If you mean brand of rifle, I bought a barrel, head space gauges, chassis and scope and assembled myself. It was originally a Remington 700 Sendero 7mm Magnum. Barrel swap and now it's a 7 PRC. I'm very happy with the conversion.
200ft/sec difference + silence is CRIMINAL. Also, maybe the 284win is the correct step down from 7PRC if you handload. Especially if you are shooting in the 168gr class of bullets. The BC and speed is still great but the recoil is much more manageable.
I dont think there is a single factory option that comes in 284 winchester anymore
@@therowdyrue7768 Im almost 100% sure I qualified my statement with "if you handload" but I may be mistaken. My apologies if I didn't.
" Transparency " from ammunition mfg.
If you shoot a high-performance load like 7 PRC and you're not handloading and don't at least have a friend with a chronograph , are you really going to get any kind of success ?
The hand loading and load work up are a big part of the enjoyment of a load like this.
I love it !
At some point Hornady needs to be sued for false advertising. You spend $3k on a rifle to shoot ammunition that meets a certain spec. Then they stop production of that ammo because they can’t meet the spec, regardless of the reason. This just confirms the lack of R&D just to get something new out. I’m sure the Rifle manufacturers couldn’t care less. I’m sure they’re happy about it because they get to sell another rifle chambered in the next Hyped cartridge.
Hornady doesn’t sell rifles.
Not to mention, they released a new cartridge KNOWING they had a limited supply or the ideal propellant. They were worried about the 6.8 Western and had to rush the 7mmPRC with the good propellant to beat the 6.8 Western. Then a few months later they say they ran out of powder and had to use another type that retained their accuracy and consistency criteria. I'll call them out on that one. In the years it took them to develop 7mmPRC, they tested ALL the appropriate powders and knew what these powders could do in the cartridge. Once they ran out of the good powder, they chose another one that was just OK and that they had a lot of.
@@thepracticalrifleman that useless comment is a great responce for someone that has poor reading comprehension skills.
@@larrymars649 “I’m sure they’re happy about it because they get to sell another rifle chamber in the next Hyped cartridge”.
Not sure any “hyped” was capitalized.
Let’s state some facts. Muzzle velocity printed on a box has never been gospel. Muzzle velocities on ammo has always varied based on supply chains; which is why many companies don’t print it.
How could Hornady predict a shortage of the two or three powders they are using?
How come nobody is mad the other cartridges Hornady makes using the same powder are also slower?
SAAMI-spec is the only reasonable expectation of ammo you can have. Dimensional tolerances and a minimum and maximum pressure. Velocity is always a wash as is accuracy because there are so many factors going into it.
Hyped” because it was ABSOLUTELY, far and wide throughout the firearms community in YT…was it not?
If the product is falling that far short of claimed specs, then they’re liable regardless. We have reasonable expectations the firearm industry is held to the same standards as any consumer product manufacturing quality.
Congratulations Garrett that is awesome
I am an experienced handloader, and have an old but good 7mm rem mag. Given the cost of rebarreling an old rifle or buying a new one, would there be any real advantages to a 7prc as opposed to just rebarreling the old 7 mag with a faster twist rate? Again, I am an experienced handloader, so I'm not concerned with factory ammo differences. Seems like the gains of the prc would be minimal in my case
175 ELDx over 68 gr of H1000 out of a 24" Bergara is *chefs kiss. Getting 3000fps and just under MOA in 10 shot groups with an 8SD.
this is exactally why i bought federal premium in 175g eldx. i absolutly love hornady and thats all i shoot. but iam not waisting hard earned money in my 7mm prc with theyre ammo. ill be switching to federal ammo
Exactly!!!!
Just curious, do you find the 300 PRC as finicky? Do you need to clean the 300 as much or have pressure signs with that cartridge?
If you look through the comments, someone mentioned that it does form quickly as well.
@dankcincy I had my 300 PRC for around 4 years now, and I have not had an issue. I just keep it clean. It also is a larger round, so maybe that makes a difference. All I know is my 300 PRC works great and I use a 7mm rem mag for the medium range shots.
With mag pro powder this weekend and 180s I was getting 2702-2712 velocities and hitting out to 600 pretty easily. Everyone craves speed but accuracy is key. I agree though they should def give you the truth of what’s in the box and not bs everyone because not everyone looks at the chrono box to box and that could ruin a hunt or even cause a stray bullet.
280 Ackley Improved
Exactly my thoughts!!
Any round needing slow powders is going to be a problem, no matter what it’s name is.
Load the 7PRC down if you wanted 280 AI performance.
@@RileyPierce_ I did that with my 7 rem mag and the case was full of soot.
@@RileyPierce_ Thanks, already got a 280AI. I can just load it up and get close enough to the current 7PRC standard velocities.
Hornady did a kinda funky thing with the superformance information and gas guns early on...had to rebuild a bar 270 because of them
It is my experience, that 95% of shooters, really can't handle recoil energy above 18 ft-lbs. Even the .30-06 is too much recoil for most shooters. The 7mm PRC is WAY beyond the tolerance level for most shooters.
It is also my experience, that this recoil aversion is getting worse. 50 years ago, nobody complained about the .30-06 recoil.
if you can't handle a 7mm PRC you have no business hunting anything anywhere
Didn't complain because they didn't know any better. It's what the had to use and were used to.
50 years ago they weren't shooting 6lb rifles with plastic stock. Standard weight naked rifles were between 7.5 and 8.5lbs. Magnums were heavier. I remember shooting an old 300 Win Mag Ruger M77 and checking the cartridge caliber again because I couldn't believe how little recoil it had. It actually felt very close to my 7mm-08. When I got home I weighed it and it was almost 12 lbs. My 7mm-08 weighs 7.5 lbs. Its not recoil energy that hurts as much as recoil velocity.
Yeah, many would hate my Winchester Model 70 in 338 win mag with NO muzzle brake. I am not a big man 5'8" but I was shooting a 10 gage shot gun at 13 and 30/06 at 12. By 18 I could handle the recoil from that 338 of my Dad's. He passed on in 2003 but He did see me hammer a 350 6x6 Elk in 1998 with that 338 win mag. You can work up in recoil to large rifles, but you should start lower and learn to handle the middle road recoil rifles (30/06, 7mm Mag, etc.) first.
@denisleblanc4506 weight is a good point, but my buddy has a rifle that's been in the family since war days with a metal butt plate. It's a bruiser! Then our lightweight tikka in 30-06 is only around 6.5 lbs loaded and is a joy to shoot with a limbsaver (soon to be a Backstop)
Hi there from a Wyoming neighbor! Maybe a parallel question. I have a 6.5 prc. A couple months ago I was blowing primers... completely out of the brass. Took it to the local shop, he said it was too much pressure, chamber etc was fine. It was e-ldx. I haven't had the same issue with Norma or federal ammo. Now, do you recommend cleaning a 6.5 prc every 40 rounds like the 7 prc to avoid the carbon ring? TYIA!
I don't think I have ever run a single rifle, or handload of any there in, at or below SAAMI Max pressure recommendation. My personal pressure limit is just where the primers just begin to flatten. I do not go as far now, as allowing minor cratering like I did when I was younger. I only ever had cases fail after 10 or more reloadings in my Ackley chambers. Just pulled in half upon extraction attempt, no catastrophic failures. Primer pockets remained serviceable and I burnt out each barrel still well into an agreeable life span. One of my .223 Ackley Improved rifles a standard Remington SPS-V lasted in estimate of 15k rounds before barrel burnt out. I only had maybe 5 cases fail in it in its life. Chamber remained perfect rifling was the failure.
I picked up a 7mm PRC and agree that the Hornady stuff underperforms but the Barnes VOR-TEX 160gr is shoooting great and is consistently clocking in around 3050 which is what they advertised on the box. Just picked up a box of the federal ascent 170gr and look forward to testing that. If i could do it all again i would probably pick up a different cartridge. This ammo is so incredibly over priced compared to everything else. You can get a box or 7mm rem for about $23 a box near me, while the 7mm PRC is about $75 a box not counting the insane like 20% tax on ammo in California. Now, does this shoot 3x as good as 7mm rem? No. There is absolutely no reason this ammo should be this expensive and underperforming on top of it.
Update on the federal ascent 170gr ammo. It was clocking about 3020fps
My Bergara in 300WM does everything I need it to do, all the way out to a mile. 0.3MOA with my handloads.
Is 2975 out of my 30-06 crazy fast? Hornady whitetail is throwing that speed. My own loads 2924.
Anyway. I’m torn 7PRC or 6.5PRC 🤔
Any Cartridge that is that needy and or picky will never preform to it's full potential with factory ammunition and the 7PRC is just that if you hand load you will love it and have no issues with pressure or velocity as you can control both of those issues .
For the vast majority of big game hunters, 225 to 250 yards is probably the max range at which a shot should be taken, and many struggle at ranges over 175 to 200. So basically, unless a new cartridge help someone shoot markedly better at these ranges, there is very little need for them overall.
I have been getting 3000fps with 175 grain old spire points from my 700 7mm rem mag 24 inch barrel for 40 years. Strictly hunting in mountains.
OK I have watched this video twice, So if you want 7mm prc ( and I do) A. get a slightly heaver gun, (noted on your saco 20 review) B. use recoil mitigation tools, a break and a recoil pad, and clean it regularly. C. reload or verify your velocity with each box of factory ammo you use. Did I miss something? The take down of the bison was impressive. The shot looked a little low for high shoulder, I would be curious what bullet you used and the penetration you got with it. I would like to see the Bretta BRX in a 7mm prc, I'm thinking the europeans are waiting are waiting for the chambering issues work them selves out a little more . Your thoughts? Happy 4th of July
I shoot a lot, at least 30 rounds a week, only cleaning my rifle every 300 rounds or so. But run a bore snake through the barrel once after I am done shooting for the day removing the carbon. I do not get a carbon ring. The carbon comes out like a puff of smoke when as the bore snake leaves the barrel.
I just hope Hornady didn't kill a great cartridge with false advertising. I love my 7mm prc. It gets sub moa with everything I have shot. I don't shoot factory loads in any of my rifles. I am getting near 3000 fps with Nosler 175 gn ABLR hand loads.
6.8 Western beats both the 6.5 prc and 7 prc. That is why Hornady hates it so much.
But quite a bit more powder and recoil than my 6.5 PRC
@@danblumel The 6.5 PRC is short enough to adapt to an AR platform the 7 PRC is no where close to fitting AR platform without drastic modifications and cost. The 6.5 PRC doesn't even compete with the 7 PRC. Now the 6.8 Western happens to be short enough to fit an AR platform was made to compete and beat with the 6.5 PRC and not only handles that with no issue but competes with and damn near beats 7 PRC... so yeah 6.8 Western is the best of the 3 as it can handle more jobs than either of the other two.
@@Mr.Constitutionalist4276.5 PRC competes well with 270 Win. and flatter shooting.
@@danblumel yes the 6.5 beats out the .270 Win. but I never compared the .270 Win. to the 6.5 prc I just said my Last Muley was taken with it. I compared the 6.5 prc to the 6.8 western which carries 150 ft lbs of energy more than the 6.5 prc at 1,000 yards. Now what is funny everyone I end up talking with that are super hung up on splitting hairs over BC can never seem to shoot past 400 yards. I live in Kansas and we shoot long range if you are not comfortable shooting a deer at 300 then you may never get a monster out here as rut is over here when rifle season start and they stop being stupid and become kings of disappearing, can you get inside that yes many times but not every time and less often on old bucks. So if you have a 300 to 400 yard shot on one you should be confident to take the shot or accept you might not see it again. Kansas is also almost all private land. So also if they leave your land you might not get a chance at it again the rest of the year as they may stay on kand you do not have permission to hunt and won't get it, as many farmers here are now contracting their land to outfitters.
Isn't pressure the reason Alex Wheeler modified the PRCs by opening up the chamber body by 0.002? To relieve early clickers, pressure signs too soon?
It was a mismatch between reamers, brass, and dies. Not really pressure per se.
Bruce hodgdon when he first formulated his reloading manual and did his load testing for himself. A very simple method of measuring pressure is measuring the case head diameter before you fire and the case head diameter after you fire 1/64th past the extractor groove if you get more than 0.0005 stretch in your brass that is too much pressure. Any more than that and your primer pockets will be so loose after two or three firings you won't be able to keep a primer in it. And somehow the industry has gotten away from that. That is literally the most reliable way to measure any kind of pressure without having a transducer, usually 0.0006 to .0007 you starting to really notice the extractor Shadow on the rim, you have to be careful about looking at primers because some primers will flatten more than the others and it's just the nature of the cartridge. When you start to see the ejector Shadow, that's your first true sign of pressure, not all guns are the same. Some of my guns will shoot a middle charge weight at maximum velocities and most of that comes down to the chamber dimensions and being on the tighter side of tolerances
What a guy, that kid better be cleaning your truck for years.
Been hand loading and
building 7Dakota for 20 years. 7PRC is just another cartridge to keep the ammo makers and pill launchers in business. A effing joke to those needing something new.
7Dak has no problem reaching 1760 yds with any number of high BC pills and 9 or faster twist.
I still have Cauterrucio's hand made 190s along with several others. 162 180,189 and others. 162 RBT in 9twist is an uncompromising combo. Retumbo works very well as does Magpro in all up to 190.
So I'm building out my 7prc now. Which is a good muzzle break you would recommend? 1/2 x28 threads is the muzzle threads? Or would I be better off spending the money on a banish back country?
As a note. I plan to hand load everything. And I clean guns after every use. Regardless of round count
Ultradyne Apollo LR
You can get thread adapters if you need one.
Most 6.5, 7mm & 30 cal. use 5/8”x24 threads.
@@brianwood7882 i know. That is the unfortunate part. Howa 1500 uses 1/2 28
@@brianwood7882 My Howa 1500 300 PRC was 1/2", I had to use an adapter for it.
Browning Recoil Hawg, easy self timing and effective. You’ll want the sporter size
7mm mag 160 grain nosler boat tail. Been around forever !
Did the 6.5 and 300 PRC have these same issues? Or is it just the 7 PRC?
None of these issues in my 28 Nosler. I was planning to go to 7prc when my barrel expires, but maybe not after all.
Where can we see which lot numbers for precision hunter have the new vs old powder? I totally missed this news. Thanks for spreading the word.
Curious how many of the pressure related issues are with reloads and people chasing velocities that are unreasonably high?
I went with the 28 nosler over the 7prc don’t do much long range shooting mostly just hunting I live in British Columbia and most of my shots are over 300 the Nos has a lot more energy past that 7 prc looks like a good round tho.
Haven’t had any issues with mine. Shooting 143gr eld loads with H1000. Sitting content at 2930FPS. No signs of over pressure.
What weight do you like to see on a 7PRC? Bare rifle. 7lbs? 8lbs?
So the more traditional cartridges were better designed for hunting. They had looser chambers and more body taper. They also have more clearance in the neck area. They were designed that way for a reason. They had to work under less than ideal conditions. I had never heard of factory ammunition before the advent of the modern designed cartridge cases. I'm not saying that a carbon ring is a not a problem but it is much less of a problem in traditional calibers. With modern cartridges anything in the chamber or non-perfect brass even runout can make it difficult to close the bolt. Let's face it, these modern ones are designed to wring out the most accuracy. They are target and competition designs. Sure they can kill at slightly longer distances. But traditional cartridges were already effective at ethical hunting distances. You want to shoot at targets at ridiculous ranges they're the ticket. But once you talk about hunting and field conditions, it's a totally different use. These new calibers may increase your hit probability, but the difference is not very significant and certainly not enough to make a real difference.
I think that more or less sums it up. Mass delusional hyper-fixation on theoretical advantages. The world will start healing soon
My takeaway here is that the “precision” in PRC specs might be too tight for the real world - at least the vast majority of riflemen. Hornady pushed everything - pressure, tolerances, powder choice - to the max in order to get incremental improvement over 6.8 Western and/or 280 Ackley Improved - and in aggregate they pushed too far.
Is the 6.5 PRC as finicky as the 7mm PRC seems to be?
Should have included the other 6.5 and 300 PRC in the table at 8:50. Would be a nicer comparaison imo.
For recoil... get an APA hypertap brake. Best on the market IMO
Would you reccomend a 6.8 western over 7 prc due if you were only using factory ammo? Elk and Mule deer hunting focused
I’m a middle aged dude. 6’1” and 220 in real life. Rode bulls, legit cowboy. I was weaned on 30-06. Built my own FAL before youtube was a thing. I prefer 6.5 PRC because I’m not man enough to shoot a reasonably packable hunting rifle with any more recoil. I see modern veal men shooting these heavy recoiling rifles and flinching badly.
I’ve thought about the issue of recoil in rifles today. Been around a long time. Be 80 in September. Grew up shooting military surplus rifles in 30-06. Springfield 03, 03A3, Enfield 1917. My dad bought the Enfield through the mail. Delivered to the door for $22.00 in 1958. Anyway, that Enfield 06 felt like it weighed 15 pounds. Shot it a bunch. Open sights. We were certainly no more recoil tuff than you guys today. I just think rifles today are much better but also much, much lighter. The only magnum out was the 300 Holland and Holland. 300 Win Mag…. What’s that Six pound rifles made of titanium with carbon fiber wrapped barrels…. Huh?? Tell you what, I want no part of any caliber over 6.5 today. 👍
Some folks just have a need to prove something to somebody, some folks don't.
What bullet did you use on the bison?
What about the 300 prc or 6.5 prc? Are these needy as well?
Hey Jim. I’m not necessarily a new shooter, but I haven’t shot a rifle chambered over 5.56 in several years (like a decade). Recently have become very interested in long range shooting and hunting (400yds or less). I have been considering a 7PRC vs 7 REM mag, but after watching this I’m reconsidering “stepping down” a class. The question I’d ask is what caliber would you suggest for some distance range shooting (90% of use), hunting (live in CO so elk is on the menu), and available in factory ammo as I do not reload (yet)?