Education to fit the child. (Manchild/Peter Pan) Vs. Education to shape the child into a human being (courageously aiming towards the highest mode of being).
Thanks for doing this interview. I have read Charlotte Iserbyt’s book “Deliberate Dumbing Down of America “ which I learned about John Dewey. I also learned about pragmatism and the history. It’s really tragic what is happening and evil because individuals are being made to commit crimes and other unlawful behaviour. It’s not just pragmatism but also the Hegelian Dialectic and the history of philosophy related to Francis Bacon and inductive reasoning. These people are social scientists
I wanted to hear that myself. Why would that be cut off? At least I know education has been bad since at least the 1920s and maybe a generation before it.
I would be interested in hearing that also! My understanding has always been that the disaster in USA education started with the Progressives in 1920s. Maybe he was going to talk about the Frankfurt School and the Prussian philosophers? My understanding is that's where it started and made it's way to USA in 1920s.
@@audella777 I've heard that, too. But I've also heard about other Communist and Socialist efforts in the 19th century. The JBS series Myths vs. Facts provides some interesting insights.
Here locally, a proponent of educational progressivism successfully convinced one of our foremost educators that farmers did not need to know Latin and Greek. The reasoning was, when would they ever use it? That was in the 1920s or so. I imagine that argument was being repeated elsewhere.
8:33 I wish there was clarification on what they would have meant when saying, "You're framing the issue." I know it's sort of a throwaway point, but that seems like the only instance where we hear tangible pushback against the curriculum plan that is contesting them.
Thank you so much for this amazing video. I am not from the U.S. but I am graduating from a Liberal Arts College (as they say but that actually isn't) in English Education. Since the beginning, I knew something was wrong but I could not understand what and how it was wrong. Now it all made sense that my school is Liberal Arts only in the name and teaches all its education majors to be Progressive and child-centered educators. Again, thank you so much for clarifying all of this, now I can go back and ask for some explanations from my school about what they are doing!
1:56 this is exactly the problem but it also extends into medical school where students don’t learn the basics but then they’re supposed to apply these unknown facts and processes called “problem based learning“ or PBL.
At 13:00. It’s more than a “feeling” classical education is objective and based on objective truth, which is exactly the opposite of the post modernist swill that’s been pushed on the masses.
I get what you're saying, but the "feeling" is not a superficial thing he is talking about. It's "felt" DEEP within the soul. I'm 40 years old, and I grew up going to public schools and I knew even then, in the late 80's through 90's that something about the system was not right, but it was a "feeling" deep in my soul. That "feeling" is what made me pursue Philosophy studies at the college and graduate school levels. It's not a cheap feeling that he is talking about. It's not the kind of feeling that people in mainstream media and Hollywood and federal government sell us daily when they tell us how we should FEEL about something. It's not emotional on the surface. It's a FEELING deep into the soul. It's the awareness that what I'm looking at is an illusion, and the light is just beyond the cave. It's a feeling that this doesn't mean anything, and real meaning is outside of this institution, somewhere. You can pursue objective truth, and you can discover classical education, but the FEELING usually comes first--at least in the current society we're living in, in my humble opinion.
@@audella777 I understand exactly what you’re saying. I’m of the same generation and felt the same way. The education system did not point to the good, true and the beautiful. And the void created left of feeling, like bread crumbs in the forest, a call to a path leading to truth.
We need to completely re-do the accreditation and certification process; universities and the colleges which prepare teachers are utterly corrupt. One cannot give what one does not have. Homeschooling and private schools are a starting answer, but it cannot address the broader societal issue of public education; the public education system must be reformed, or - honestly - at this point - demolished and then rebuilt on classical, and proven, foundations.
I just had a debate with my boyfriend and his mom on the merits of classical education. They just lambasted me on like they have no use in today's time. I tried to tell them that it has merits because it gives you the tools so that you can think better and all that. They just didn't see the merits of it. They just kept saying you don't need it in your profession either but it is weird that they are both products of a classical education aka they aren't dumb, stupid aka not make arguments based on emotion.
@@wintermatherne2524 it wasn't even about the money thing. Classical education makes responsible citizens. It is not just a mere means to an end but it allows people with classical education to be critical thinkers in other aspects of their lives especially in civics, culture and politics
@@scarlettannep9137 how do you mean a materialistic way? Not for anything, a classical education brings up citizens that are critical thinkers and know how to decipher real truth from false truth. The argument they told me is that why do you have to repeat the same required classes that you've already taken in high school. Of course, I wasn't able to defend my stance because at that time it was 2 vs 1. In my opinion, the reason why that is, before, not everyone would go to college after high school. Back then, people started to be part of the work force either after high school or while in high school. Amd if you decided to get a certain position that requires a tertiary education, then, you go to college or a university. Imagine, let's say you go to college after 15 years of being on the force, your brain needs to be trained again so that you can retain and understand that concepts that you need to learn and in the long run, apply in the position that will be filling once you finish your college. College/university was not for the sake of getting a career or skill. Skill, you learn that on the job. Discipline, critical thinking, and learning certain theories needed when you start making decisions, those you develop with a classical education. P.s. not everyone graduates high school. Some drop out and start working, therefore the need for classical education when one day they decide to get their GED and go to tertiary school.
@@mayac.1345 I'm talking about the modern mentality that if something doesn't necessarily equal more $ or public recognition then it must be useless. There's not enough emphasis on personal development; of having knowledge for knowledge sake. Of course these skills will probably help with material gain throughout life but I don't think it should be the main objective. My parents way of thinking is , just get through it and get the piece of paper and move on with life. "Life" meaning a new car in the driveway every five years and a nicer house than your neighbor and having a bunch of stuff you don't need.
This may be naïve but may I suggest people who share this classical education philosophy who have taught at schools be challenged to take over these problematic institutions( education training collages, text book publishing and those who establish standards.
@L A It is a ideology that presupposes race is a real category and that it has a tangible impact on the world. It's an absurdity that could only arise in the post-enlightenment context of modern scientism and materialism, which is to say it is not a serious idea and not to be taken seriously by any thinking man.
@@costakeith9048an ideology???? Not at all. People have this so twisted bc they only know what they hear on tv. You can’t disagree with crt then turn around and support our legal system. Make it make sense
His point was that the pendulum never swings completely back to the starting point but progressively, gradually, recenters leftward. Perhaps a more apt metaphor would be a ratchet.
3:48 excellent 🎉 this is the why teachers can’t teach anymore. 5:17 blooms sucks but better than running to the top of the pyramid. 6:36 same. Zero knowledge. Too many exercises. Not enough memorization. No foundation of knowledge. 10:30 no basic skills. When I taught in a Doctorate program I was the only professor giving exams. Horrible program.
I am sorry but as a black man, that classical education is a European classic education which should be taught to white kids. It is not my story it is yours. I would want a classic education in the africa before the coming of the Europeans the great African empires, their philosophy, their political systems, their stories, their knowledge.I want to know where I come from. And feel proud of who I am.
Classical Education can still be taught to black kids, all you have to do is swap out the majority European history and thinkers with pan-african ones. Things like grammar, logic, and rhetoric is not really affected by what you're saying. These things should be taught to black kids. You could also create a hybrid Great Books liberal education, combining the western white classics with the Black Intellectual Tradition.
I was wondering the same thing too. But the man said that there’s a huge problem with textbooks. As literature and history are full of extraordinarily important figures, a wider platform for our black history, and I am white, but I’m well aware of the influence that our black history has had on all of our lives today - which I think is missed or overlooked when we talk about historically important black figures. We should not only see them as a change for black progress but for our shared progress. And if we changed the narrative to one which shows just how important the struggle and the fight for equality is and was and how that in itself was a benefit for all Americans, we may be able to chip away at a white v black preconception. As far as African history which is truly invaluable and I really hope what I write makes some sense, when we teach American history we don’t dive into a lot of British or French or Spanish history- just the history where the “discoverers" came from and what was happening when they came to Nth America. And so i think on that level, as difficult as it might be to navigate, we would also have to start with colonization of Africa and therefore what was happening in Africa when human beings - Africans - were being kidnapped and sold globally. This part of history is so expansive and so deep that it deserves its own course. But that being said, we cant shirk away from this part of American History. And if we started our children reading Dickens, or Shakespeare or Dumas we can certainly introduce African authors and history into early education as well. Personally i think if you stick any book into a childs hands and have them read it, they will. Kids should start with classics. period. You cant put bricks of gold in a penny purse.
![A Journey in Classical Education | Classical Et Cetera | [Ep. 001: Martin Cothran]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/uNsIu8qF0ds/mqdefault.jpg)
![A Journey in Classical Education | Classical Et Cetera | [Ep. 001: Martin Cothran]](/img/tr.png)
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Martin, Thank You for your hard work and dedication in education.
Education to fit the child. (Manchild/Peter Pan)
Vs.
Education to shape the child into a human being (courageously aiming towards the highest mode of being).
Giving kids the chance to exceed expectations rather than expecting the bare minimum from everyone.
Thanks for doing this interview. I have read Charlotte Iserbyt’s book “Deliberate Dumbing Down of America “ which I learned about John Dewey. I also learned about pragmatism and the history. It’s really tragic what is happening and evil because individuals are being made to commit crimes and other unlawful behaviour. It’s not just pragmatism but also the Hegelian Dialectic and the history of philosophy related to Francis Bacon and inductive reasoning. These people are social scientists
Exactly!
Nuts! You cut him off before he described the First Round of Progressivism in the 1920s. Groan! I wanted to hear that!
I wanted to hear that myself. Why would that be cut off? At least I know education has been bad since at least the 1920s and maybe a generation before it.
I would be interested in hearing that also! My understanding has always been that the disaster in USA education started with the Progressives in 1920s. Maybe he was going to talk about the Frankfurt School and the Prussian philosophers? My understanding is that's where it started and made it's way to USA in 1920s.
@@audella777 I've heard that, too. But I've also heard about other Communist and Socialist efforts in the 19th century.
The JBS series Myths vs. Facts provides some interesting insights.
It started when Horace Mann went to Prussia lol
Here locally, a proponent of educational progressivism successfully convinced one of our foremost educators that farmers did not need to know Latin and Greek. The reasoning was, when would they ever use it? That was in the 1920s or so. I imagine that argument was being repeated elsewhere.
Enlightening and well done!
8:33 I wish there was clarification on what they would have meant when saying, "You're framing the issue." I know it's sort of a throwaway point, but that seems like the only instance where we hear tangible pushback against the curriculum plan that is contesting them.
Thank you so much for this amazing video. I am not from the U.S. but I am graduating from a Liberal Arts College (as they say but that actually isn't) in English Education. Since the beginning, I knew something was wrong but I could not understand what and how it was wrong. Now it all made sense that my school is Liberal Arts only in the name and teaches all its education majors to be Progressive and child-centered educators. Again, thank you so much for clarifying all of this, now I can go back and ask for some explanations from my school about what they are doing!
You better be prayed up for the battle of minds!
1:56 this is exactly the problem but it also extends into medical school where students don’t learn the basics but then they’re supposed to apply these unknown facts and processes called “problem based learning“ or PBL.
At 13:00. It’s more than a “feeling” classical education is objective and based on objective truth, which is exactly the opposite of the post modernist swill that’s been pushed on the masses.
I get what you're saying, but the "feeling" is not a superficial thing he is talking about. It's "felt" DEEP within the soul. I'm 40 years old, and I grew up going to public schools and I knew even then, in the late 80's through 90's that something about the system was not right, but it was a "feeling" deep in my soul. That "feeling" is what made me pursue Philosophy studies at the college and graduate school levels. It's not a cheap feeling that he is talking about. It's not the kind of feeling that people in mainstream media and Hollywood and federal government sell us daily when they tell us how we should FEEL about something. It's not emotional on the surface. It's a FEELING deep into the soul. It's the awareness that what I'm looking at is an illusion, and the light is just beyond the cave. It's a feeling that this doesn't mean anything, and real meaning is outside of this institution, somewhere. You can pursue objective truth, and you can discover classical education, but the FEELING usually comes first--at least in the current society we're living in, in my humble opinion.
@@audella777 I understand exactly what you’re saying. I’m of the same generation and felt the same way. The education system did not point to the good, true and the beautiful. And the void created left of feeling, like bread crumbs in the forest, a call to a path leading to truth.
We need to keep fight
We need to completely re-do the accreditation and certification process; universities and the colleges which prepare teachers are utterly corrupt. One cannot give what one does not have. Homeschooling and private schools are a starting answer, but it cannot address the broader societal issue of public education; the public education system must be reformed, or - honestly - at this point - demolished and then rebuilt on classical, and proven, foundations.
I just had a debate with my boyfriend and his mom on the merits of classical education. They just lambasted me on like they have no use in today's time. I tried to tell them that it has merits because it gives you the tools so that you can think better and all that. They just didn't see the merits of it. They just kept saying you don't need it in your profession either but it is weird that they are both products of a classical education aka they aren't dumb, stupid aka not make arguments based on emotion.
It sounds like they're saying that you can make just as much money without it which is a low brow mentality if you ask me.
@@wintermatherne2524 it wasn't even about the money thing. Classical education makes responsible citizens. It is not just a mere means to an end but it allows people with classical education to be critical thinkers in other aspects of their lives especially in civics, culture and politics
I've been getting this argument from my parents as well. It comes down to having a materialistic way of looking at life IMO.
@@scarlettannep9137 how do you mean a materialistic way? Not for anything, a classical education brings up citizens that are critical thinkers and know how to decipher real truth from false truth. The argument they told me is that why do you have to repeat the same required classes that you've already taken in high school. Of course, I wasn't able to defend my stance because at that time it was 2 vs 1. In my opinion, the reason why that is, before, not everyone would go to college after high school. Back then, people started to be part of the work force either after high school or while in high school. Amd if you decided to get a certain position that requires a tertiary education, then, you go to college or a university. Imagine, let's say you go to college after 15 years of being on the force, your brain needs to be trained again so that you can retain and understand that concepts that you need to learn and in the long run, apply in the position that will be filling once you finish your college. College/university was not for the sake of getting a career or skill. Skill, you learn that on the job. Discipline, critical thinking, and learning certain theories needed when you start making decisions, those you develop with a classical education.
P.s. not everyone graduates high school. Some drop out and start working, therefore the need for classical education when one day they decide to get their GED and go to tertiary school.
@@mayac.1345 I'm talking about the modern mentality that if something doesn't necessarily equal more $ or public recognition then it must be useless. There's not enough emphasis on personal development; of having knowledge for knowledge sake. Of course these skills will probably help with material gain throughout life but I don't think it should be the main objective. My parents way of thinking is , just get through it and get the piece of paper and move on with life. "Life" meaning a new car in the driveway every five years and a nicer house than your neighbor and having a bunch of stuff you don't need.
This may be naïve but may I suggest people who share this classical education philosophy who have taught at schools be challenged to take over these problematic institutions( education training collages, text book publishing and those who establish standards.
You can’t use knowledge you don’t have.
We are at this fight again with critical race Theory except I don't think there's anybody like you fighting anymore I think we're about to lose
@L A It is a ideology that presupposes race is a real category and that it has a tangible impact on the world. It's an absurdity that could only arise in the post-enlightenment context of modern scientism and materialism, which is to say it is not a serious idea and not to be taken seriously by any thinking man.
There are those of us with common sense.
@@costakeith9048an ideology???? Not at all. People have this so twisted bc they only know what they hear on tv. You can’t disagree with crt then turn around and support our legal system. Make it make sense
You're starting to show your true colors on accident by the way
If the pendulum keeps swinging, doesn't that tell us that the end result is somewhere in the middle?
I dont think reasoning within the analogy alone is a good idea
His point was that the pendulum never swings completely back to the starting point but progressively, gradually, recenters leftward. Perhaps a more apt metaphor would be a ratchet.
3:48 excellent 🎉 this is the why teachers can’t teach anymore. 5:17 blooms sucks but better than running to the top of the pyramid. 6:36 same. Zero knowledge. Too many exercises. Not enough memorization. No foundation of knowledge. 10:30 no basic skills. When I taught in a Doctorate program I was the only professor giving exams. Horrible program.
I am sorry but as a black man, that classical education is a European classic education which should be taught to white kids. It is not my story it is yours. I would want a classic education in the africa before the coming of the Europeans the great African empires, their philosophy, their political systems, their stories, their knowledge.I want to know where I come from. And feel proud of who I am.
Classical Education can still be taught to black kids, all you have to do is swap out the majority European history and thinkers with pan-african ones. Things like grammar, logic, and rhetoric is not really affected by what you're saying. These things should be taught to black kids.
You could also create a hybrid Great Books liberal education, combining the western white classics with the Black Intellectual Tradition.
I was wondering the same thing too. But the man said that there’s a huge problem with textbooks. As literature and history are full of extraordinarily important figures, a wider platform for our black history, and I am white, but I’m well aware of the influence that our black history has had on all of our lives today - which I think is missed or overlooked when we talk about historically important black figures. We should not only see them as a change for black progress but for our shared progress. And if we changed the narrative to one which shows just how important the struggle and the fight for equality is and was and how that in itself was a benefit for all Americans, we may be able to chip away at a white v black preconception. As far as African history which is truly invaluable and I really hope what I write makes some sense, when we teach American history we don’t dive into a lot of British or French or Spanish history- just the history where the “discoverers" came from and what was happening when they came to Nth America. And so i think on that level, as difficult as it might be to navigate, we would also have to start with colonization of Africa and therefore what was happening in Africa when human beings - Africans - were being kidnapped and sold globally. This part of history is so expansive and so deep that it deserves its own course. But that being said, we cant shirk away from this part of American History. And if we started our children reading Dickens, or Shakespeare or Dumas we can certainly introduce African authors and history into early education as well.
Personally i think if you stick any book into a childs hands and have them read it, they will. Kids should start with classics. period. You cant put bricks of gold in a penny purse.
That's a dumbest thing I've ever heard in my life. Go get some Thomas Sowell, Pick, one of his 50+ books start reading and keep going
Egypt, one of the world's great ancient civilisations, is located in Africa.
@paulpetersen-iu1he Is Thamas Sowell the only black intellectual you know about
They still have common core .I don't think it helping kids .if your reading below levil in 4 grade and 8 grade math is not pass