First of all, the quality of this video is amazing. The message is fantastic as well. Presented in a clear and engaging way. I have been searching for a book like this after reading Milton’s “Tractate on Education.” Thanks so much for sharing and looking forward to reading it. Please keep up the amazing work!
I am 63. I am working through volume 1 of ATHENAZE and hope to begin vol 2 in 2025. I can currently read parts of the Gospels. I hope in years to come to be able to read Epictetus and other philosophers. I have proven to myself that learning languages is mostly about consistent effort over an extended period of time. Thank you for this great video. (I don't know if I will live long enough to make it to Latin. )
Perfect! I was employed in our local public school system for a total of 3 months. Within the first week I knew I needed to keep my kids away from the environment. With a first grader who loves to learn and a toddler on their way I found classical education prudent.
Please work to improve your local public school, for the sake of the betterment of the whole community. As citizens in a constitutional republic, we have a responsibility to make sure public education is excellent, too.
@@josephadkins549 I homeschooled, as well. Please consider attending school board meetings, looking through the public school curricula, and advocating for improvements. Lots of kids do not have parents who know the benefits of a classical education or are even paying attention. Your voice is invaluable for saving public education and, in many ways, the future of our republic.
I read the book and will recommend it to anyone who even slightly considers homeschooling or sending his/her child(ren) to a classical private school. I have homeschooled my now 12-year old son Arman in the Christian Classical Liberal Arts, in particular Latin and Greek, since the COVID-19 pandemic broke in 2020 and he was home without a school. I remembered my own classical education in Dutch Gymnasia in Alkmaar and Hengelo in The Netherlands now 60 years ago and how I had befitted from that classical education during my whole life. I realized that now I could pass on its truth, goodness and beauty to my young son. One tangible result: he earned a Maxima Cum Laude silver medal for his National (Beginning) Latin Exam this past Spring Semester. Moreover, he earned Excellent scores in his California Advanced Progress and Performance tests and even the Classical Learning Test 6. Again, read Livingstone's lovely book and learn why this all can come true for your child! Thank you, Tracy Lee Simmons, for this wonderful presentation. Well done!
I had an appalling comprehensive school education and didnt go to university, but around the age of 28 i discovered the classics and was immediately captivated by them. I would give anything in exchange for a classical education. I feel as though i have gone through life with a disability.
I'm an African American. I love this idea, especially Classic Education Lite mixed with a global review of literature. I feel both attached to the Greeks and Romans as well as Confucius, Buddha, and the proverbs of West African priest.
Thank you for this video! It inspires me to start learning Latin and Greek. I hope to persevere even with a busy schedule. Keep up the excellent content! 👏
May the restoration come! Isaiah 58 : 12! I dream of planting my own classical college in Kauai, with our own theatre to perform Greek, Roman, and Shakespearean plays. ❤. It will take me at least 7 years but with Jesus I can do it
I know this video is a bit older, but I just discovered it and wanted to thank you for posting it; I was unaware of this book until watching this video and immediately ordered it. I look forward to reading it upon arrival!
Superbly produced about a superb subject. I will listen to this over and over. I loved the statement about "It's not just about learning, but becoming." (He said it more elegantly, but it caught my attention.) It reminded me of Jo's fear when Laury set off to college. She understood that he would not come back the same.
why would you choose put a kindergarten through "classical" the whole point of the concept of kindergarten is that it is preschool. They believe they are restoring classical education but kindergarten is a modern concept based around play base education, to prioritize socialization, learning manners, while learning some basics. Schools in the old days did not start until the age of 6. Kindergarten was meant to get kids ready for school. Classical education doesn't fit with the premise. If used the term grade zero fine but its not a kindergarten.
Many thanks for letting me know about this book--it's now in my Amazon shopping cart! Sounds like it makes one argument for a classical education that I'd agree with (roots of Western Civ, whether you like Western Civ or not) and one I'd disagree with (Greeks and Romans have the best-ever prescription for MEN to live lives of virtue, i.e. MANLINESS).
Your discussion of certain chapters posing difficulty to modern readers calls to mind a chapter from The Closing of The American Mind entitled “From Socrates' Apology to Heidegger's Rektoratsrede.” That one was ROUGH! 😂
I’d love to become a classical education teacher. I a bit hesitant to go sign up for my local community college to get started do to not knowing if it’s even the training I’d want. I’m 45 starting this. I did do some classical education with my children through elementary school and a bit of middle school. Do you have any suggestions on where I could start?
I’ve been taking the Memoria Press courses on my own. I believe there’s an Introduction to Classical Studies textbook that you can use. For Latin, Lingua Latina For Greek, Athenaze
There is making a living and there is a classical education. In making a living as a doctor, accountant, engineer, nurse, etc. you need technical training. You will subsequently paid for the marketable skills you have acquired. There is nothing stopping someone from reading the classics. Socrates did not go to college. Spending time in college getting trained for something that has no market value is a very expensive mistake.
I freaking love it, like freakin love it love it you god dakn amazing creators, never stop making videos likw that, it feeds to my thirt for themes that are dark academia, mamma mia rombanalla mucho mucho✍️
This seems to miss the whole point of a truly classic education. That's grounded in the Trivium of grammar, rhetoric, and dialectic, the user's manual of the human mind, that teaches students how to think efficiently, quickly, and rightly. And in the Quadrivium of arithmetic, geometry, astronomy, and music, which teaches students how to apply those skills of thinking to understand, control, and improve the reality around us. The classic literature touted here is necessary, of course, but without an elementary education in those Seven Liberal Arts they are incomprehensible, even if one has been hammered into learning Greek and Latin.
Painless effective education probably does not exist. But people insist on these for one hundred years and blamed teachers. Now we see the results these days where the universities and politics are taken over by ideology and pure nonsenses. The societies consider college education irrelevant. Political discourses are just ways to get more funding for interest groups. Politicians are just political technicians or PR people.
Start reading the classics, and Hillsdale college has free online lectures that are the same quality/style of this video. Would recommend starting there. There are several lists which have the classics, one set is Mortimer Alders Great Books of the western world, you can also look at curriculum for classical schools such as St. John’s college.
Susan Wise Bauer has some good guides, as does Charlotte Mason. I concur with Mortimer Adler. E.D. Hirsch and Neil Postman, too. Read broadly. Read the Great Works. Read history.
That very question was asked around the beginning of the 20th century to Dr. Elliot the head of Harvard. He claimed that by reading three feet of books one could achieve a university education. The publisher Collier, who happened to be attending the lecture insisted Elliot name the books. After reflecting, Elliot supplied the list which measured five feet long and so was born the Harvard Classics.
Trigger warning: I'm an advanced Postmodernist. I love Classical Greek and Roman Literature. And I think it should be an option for first graders along with Diary of a Wimpy Kid. When Deconstructed, Aristotle's Rhetoric is The Bobby Fisher Teaches Chess of persuasive conversations, pick up and sales. However, what Modernists both infantile postmodernists and conservatives share but are unaware of, is that forcing people to read or learn a certain curriculum can only bring it's equal and opposite reaction. Don't worry, thousands of Latin, etc. readers worldwide are connecting on the internet and Latin is stronger than ever. There was also an insane pronoun culture war in early 19th Century Germany. The King of Prussia wanted a united German Church. But the Calvinists and Lutherans fought over; "God Bless Thee" or "God Bless Thou". It became quite heated as it was a common every encounter phrase at the time. By the way, In the Autobiography of Malcolm X he said that he read Herodotus. So, I picked it up and loved it. Every Ancient book after that was so good. It was like science fiction, a whole new genre opened to my eyes. I did it totally by myself in high school. I've read the works of European Philosophy, Literature and Black Literature. Indian and Chinese. I lived in the UK and France dans la légion étrangère françaiser. Relax Ecclesiastes 1:9
This is a wonderful defense for learning classical languages. For any interested in learning classical Arabic, Noorart offers the series "Access To Qur'anic Arabic" which contains a textbook, audio set, workbook and reading selections. It comes with a focus on religious studies, but that suites most classical Arabic learners.
Despite the classical virtue of making true, objective judgments, short shrift was given here to the many and varied reasons that admiration of Greece and Rome waned in the West. All changes from pre-modern culture are suggested to be something low, cheap, and vaguely communist. The limitations and weaknesses of traditional societies, their significant prejudices and injustices toward women, slaves, non-whites, non-Christians, and others did not break the serene surface of the presentation. The potential defects of democracy are alluded to, but not a gesture is made to the problems of aristocracy, of unmerited elitist exclusion. Amazingly, it's as if things were just ever so lovely throughout the whole of the classical and post-classical West until Lenin and company came along. Who could have possibly complained about anything except those "sleepy" yet "howling" souls unwilling to accept their assigned place in the natural or God-given order-and to learn Greek and Latin? Of course we have much to learn from the classics and their languages, but despising the new because it is new, or change because it is change, is no more valid than despising the old because it is old. Conservative politics should not be confused with respect for the classics. I believe Plato would be the first to say that his Socrates-executing society was not better than ours. And there was no "classical education" among οἱ πολλοί in ancient Greece; widespread, public education for rich and poor, male and female alike is a quite modern invention.
Thank you for this. You have exemplified here one of the great virtues of Western civilization: Its willingness to criticize itself. You even cite Plato, who, of course, was a great exemplar of this cultural trait. Not only that, but you have cited those human rights concerns that were articulated by Western thinkers, based on Western thought, which were appealed to again and again by the great leaders of social reform East and West, thinkers like Frederick Douglas, Martin Luther King, Jr., Ghandi, Nelson Mandela, etc., who all based their criticisms of injustice on the writings of Western thinkers. I agree with everything you say here.
@@martincothran Thanks for your reply. Yes, the video did not portray that virtue, in my view. But I'm curious about one aspect of your reply: Are you counting the Bible and other religious texts of Judaism, Christianity, or Islam as part of what you are calling Western thought or civilization? Many social reformers were especially inspired by Israelite Scripture, yet the video doesn't mentioned the need to learn Hebrew.
@@KingoftheJuice18 The original claim concerned the added benefit of reading foundational texts of Western Civilization in the original languages, hence prioritizing Latin and Greek. The counterclaim questioned why Hebrew was not included. My response was meant to show, as a priority, why Greek would rank higher: you not only get the great literature of Homer and the playwrights, and the philosophy, but also the New Testament, which is, I would argue, more relevant to Western development than "Israelite Scripture," at least marginally, and in terms of what could be gained from an original language study. So the utility of Greek is much higher than Hebrew in that regard. Islam is not Western. My personal view, however, is that reading in translation is good enough, with the right translation, and the study of comparative translations is a vast and fascinating pursuit.
Judging from his life and polity, I’m fully convinced that Donald Trump has read this book, and adheres to its precepts (he’s read “many books” - more books than anyone).
I really like this, and it certainly is not false, but what if it is critically incomplete? What if there is an even deeper foundation that reveals even more and shows something critically important missing from this view? With any knowledge of classical thought, you know its power is as expressed in this video, but how does that interact with another great power, instinct? Can you even consider instinct after the cultural blindness to it we exist in? Much of that comes from "The Church" teachings that humans have no instincts, because that would mean that they are animals instead of divine. Besides, our greatest tools of understanding are based on logic and reason of critical thinking, but instincts are based on the trial and error of evolution with its large component of chance. Reason may not help much with such a slippery topic. Just consider survival instinct, which should be our most powerful instinct. Oh, but you cannot consider it. You have no name for it. Heck, even the French have no name for it. Better still, you have even already forgotten that this paragraph is about instinct. It's just how people think... or don't and instinct does not fit in your mind. Still, it is your oldest and most powerful instinct, even more powerful than your moral instinct that decides what is right and wrong, based on the moral system it knows. It is your survival instinct that makes you choose right. As this video says, there is a great power to words. If you only knew that name of your survival instinct. it would strengthen and enlarge your world more than you would imagine. I am a biologist and was looking for how to release and strengthen our instincts enough to survive the massive changes occurring. Knowledge of the classics alone will not be enough. The essential truths of classical education might be though... if you could sift them out, even without the Latin or Greek. English evolved from them, contains them, and it is a great language that is richer than either. It is the essential lessons of classical education that matters, as they interact with instinct, that matters. The trick is to know what lessons those are. Philosophy can provide great knowledge, but it takes a knowledge of instinct (and biology) to tell what of that knowledge really matters to a human. ... Also, biology, ecology in particular, is what I use to describe the changes that humanity faces, and it shows some important new details that are not in the classical knowledge. Here's a fun part for you. I say the same things as the video does about the importance of classical education for the same reasons, as well as the critical need for releasing and developing instincts. I'll skip that discussion, but here is another. What happened to classical education might be different than you think. Civil War letters showed a mastery of classical knowledge. I found a 1910 grammar school syllabus that included philosophy. Whan did it become considered an archaic knowledge, as it too commonly is now? ... From my book: World War I demonstrated the power and wealth of science. The ancient war between science and religion was decisively won in the 1925 Scopes trial, but religion was not the only thing damaged. Philosophy was a collateral casualty. What if that victory by science was Pyric? Science is a jealous mistress. It claims all authority over knowledge and truth, even though it is not good at teaching understanding or even reason. STEM is almost all we teach now, besides perhaps art. (Luckily this is incorrect.) No Home Economics, no Civics, no Manual Arts... What else was lost and does it hurt science? It does. It hurts so many things. Philosophy used to be taught in grammar school. It needs to be again, for science, for healthy families, for mental health, for healthy societies, for so many things. It is the foundation our science, knowledge, government and even our civilization was built upon. They shall not endure without it. Yes indeedee, science killed philosophy. Now that would be some meme warfare for you. I'm currently writing an essay about how almost every social ill from population decline to the battle of the sexes to drug addiction could be solved by teaching philosophy along with reading and writing. It might even be true.
Ha, ha, Christianism, as most religions, tends to aim for orthodoxy, mostly by making stuff up. The Classical writers, for all their shortcomings, sincerely tried to get to the truth and would engage in free debate. That's why they always will remain superior. Sorry! The Classics will always be read. One day, Christanism will be nothing but a footnote.
Classical education tends to supplement Christians understanding of God with pagan writings from the Greeks and Romans. But you don't need Christianity to read works pre-Christian era.
I agree but when the this book was written most people in the western world were studying christianity via church which in this era were the center of community not government but none the less it was an oversight on the narrator's part
I'd be willing to listen to a defense of classical education, but -- after listening for a third of this -- the speaker just repeats that it's good, without feeling the need to support the claim. The movement toward democracy has made it no longer possible to sustain a society in which one percent of the population received an education. What about the Chinese? They seem to be impressive contributors to civilization, not excluding the many benefits immigrants from China have brought to the United States. Not a Latin or Greek scholar among them. Should we contemplate requiring Eight-Legged Essays on the Confucian Classics? -- they certainly were 'hard'. Just as we cannot continue to make do with an elite class of One-Percent, so we cannot continue to restrict "culture" to Western Europe. Western Europe gave us Auschwitz, and the atomic bomb dropped on two non-military targets. Genghis Khan, no slouch at conducting massacres, nonetheless listened to the value of not killing productive citizens. Neither Hitler nor Stalin did. Genghis did not have the benefit of classical education, while both Hitler and Stalin did. The latter even went to a seminary. So no, let us broaden our horizons about what is worthwhile in humane letters; let us study the history of the world, rather than that of a long-deceased belligerent empire.
I am European and evidence suggests that we have developed the most successful civilisation that ever existed. No doubt I will be accused of arrogance but tell me why people of all different backgrounds and races struggle and fight to move to countries which have their roots in European civilisation. In the Western world we should cherish our roots and teach all the achievements of the ancient world. That is our heritage. Then we can turn our attention to the history of the rest of the world.
If by "successful," @@HelenA-fd8vl , you mean industrialized, it is true that the Industrial Revolution took place in England in the last half of the 18th century, and nowhere else before then. Prosperity -- wealth -- is the reason for the immigration from non-European countries, Helen. That is, however, not a defense of Classical education, since quite a few non-European, non-Western nations these days are both industrialized and wealthy. Surely the benefit of a theological education was first-rate in the year 1100 AD, but not so much now. Similarly (and it's not even clear whether the Industrial Revolution depended crucially on the study of Latin and Greek) education might well be "better" in many ways now that virtually the entire world has adopted industrialization. Next, we are all mixed. Ought the over half of the population of London which is not of English origin study first their own history -- India, the Caribbean, East Africa -- before studying any English history, or ought everyone to receive the same, cosmopolitan, global history, with specific reference to the history of England?
Nobody said you must exclude eastern texts, but heavily focuses on western texts. And this argument is heavily cherry picked. Have you even read any Chinese or Japanese history? These warlords learned the ways of confucious and Lao tzu and not a bit of Aristotle, but commit the worst atrocities of mankind! Like Cao Cao, for example.
@@AsianAnticsOfficial We can agree that the gentlemen in question were innocent of Aristotelianism, but we may well differ on the subjective call of what constitutes the "worst atrocity of mankind". My understanding, if we count the number of dead civilians as the measure of atrocity, that the Tai-ping Rebellion, which leads the total of East Asian wars, had a death toll of 30 million (about the same as the Mongol Conquests -- see Wikipedia), while the Second World War killed some 80 million. And the 'leader' of the Taiping Rebellion was the younger brother of Jesus Christ, so -- definitely influenced by European culture. "Worst atrocity" is unavoidably subjective, though, and you may consider it worse if the death is accompanied by torture or rape or starvation.
"The Romans leave a desert and call it peace." Tacitus. This video is selective memory and arrogant snobbery at its worst. The Good-Old-Days trope is the contrast of the best of yesterday with the worst of today and then conjuring astonishment that the former wins such a comparison.
The classical type of education has existed ever since the 10th century, and has suited us well until the 19th century. Out of around a millenia's worth of history, what makes us so different? These people are no inferior nor superior by any means, rather we are on the same level as they are, and we are still humans either way, capable of understanding. So just because we have phones and computers, does it just mean we now somehow, "learn differently" or "have more advanced beliefs, does it mean we are beyond Aristotle and his time? No! We simply have different ways of thinking of things, but we are essentially still the same either way.
This is not a “Good Old Days” argument. The modern education system of Darwin and Dewey emphasized pragmatism, and believed it could produce sufficiently efficient armies of factory workers who weren’t meant to be great thinkers so much as they were meant to be acceptably functional in society. The end result was job holders over well educated minds. Information over formation. We are living with the 100 year consequences of such an experiment. It’s worthy of asking, were we to take a random sampling of students from an era of classical education and the same number of students randomly selected from the modern progressive model, which sampling would *overall* contain the more careful, thorough, capable thinkers?
The very quote from Tacitus completely demolishes your “argument” - (and as R.W. Livingstone has observed by way of Augustine, “sed nemo ibi audit vocantem, ‘Venite ad me qui laboratis’...”).
This make no sense. If Greek and Latin is so important to read the poems etc in original language, then the Bible must not be read other than in Hebrew. These languages consumed much precious time that should have been used for environment study, french etc.
![Classical Education vs. Modern Education | Martin Cothran | Classical Et Cetera [Ep. 008]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/MqLFUgstdRo/mqdefault.jpg)
![Classical Education vs. Modern Education | Martin Cothran | Classical Et Cetera [Ep. 008]](/img/tr.png)
First of all, the quality of this video is amazing. The message is fantastic as well. Presented in a clear and engaging way. I have been searching for a book like this after reading Milton’s “Tractate on Education.” Thanks so much for sharing and looking forward to reading it. Please keep up the amazing work!
Good to see you here
Crazy because your video on this book is what led me here!
This must be a first for me. I'm subscribed to your channel as well as this one!😊
@@darcyperkins7041 haha that is awesome! At least I am in good company!
@@Christ_is_King373 It was a good book. Tracy, who is in the video, has a great book out that I want to review soon. Glad you found us both!
Absolutely outstanding!
I am 63. I am working through volume 1 of ATHENAZE and hope to begin vol 2 in 2025. I can currently read parts of the Gospels. I hope in years to come to be able to read Epictetus and other philosophers. I have proven to myself that learning languages is mostly about consistent effort over an extended period of time. Thank you for this great video. (I don't know if I will live long enough to make it to Latin. )
Perfect! I was employed in our local public school system for a total of 3 months. Within the first week I knew I needed to keep my kids away from the environment. With a first grader who loves to learn and a toddler on their way I found classical education prudent.
Please work to improve your local public school, for the sake of the betterment of the whole community. As citizens in a constitutional republic, we have a responsibility to make sure public education is excellent, too.
I agree. However I have a responsibility to my family.
@@josephadkins549
I homeschooled, as well.
Please consider attending school board meetings, looking through the public school curricula, and advocating for improvements. Lots of kids do not have parents who know the benefits of a classical education or are even paying attention. Your voice is invaluable for saving public education and, in many ways, the future of our republic.
I read the book and will recommend it to anyone who even slightly considers homeschooling or sending his/her child(ren) to a classical private school. I have homeschooled my now 12-year old son Arman in the Christian Classical Liberal Arts, in particular Latin and Greek, since the COVID-19 pandemic broke in 2020 and he was home without a school. I remembered my own classical education in Dutch Gymnasia in Alkmaar and Hengelo in The Netherlands now 60 years ago and how I had befitted from that classical education during my whole life. I realized that now I could pass on its truth, goodness and beauty to my young son. One tangible result: he earned a Maxima Cum Laude silver medal for his National (Beginning) Latin Exam this past Spring Semester. Moreover, he earned Excellent scores in his California Advanced Progress and Performance tests and even the Classical Learning Test 6. Again, read Livingstone's lovely book and learn why this all can come true for your child! Thank you, Tracy Lee Simmons, for this wonderful presentation. Well done!
Whoever handles the lighting, set design, music, video, etc, knows exactly what they’re doing.
I had an appalling comprehensive school education and didnt go to university, but around the age of 28 i discovered the classics and was immediately captivated by them. I would give anything in exchange for a classical education. I feel as though i have gone through life with a disability.
Well said, very well said. I feel the same.
That is such an appropriate way to describe it!
Thanks for this video. I will read this Book Professor.
Wonderful!
This is absolutely beautiful. Well done, Memoria Press! ❤
I'm an African American. I love this idea, especially Classic Education Lite mixed with a global review of literature. I feel both attached to the Greeks and Romans as well as Confucius, Buddha, and the proverbs of West African priest.
Dear Alexander... do you mind me asking about how to find the works of West African priest?
Thank you!
@@joesouthborn2960 The Rebecca Crown Library has some great resources.
Sounds delightful! I am Asian myself, and I highly recommend eastern works.
I absolutely adore his use of a little legal speech; really the whole presentation is brilliant.
Thank you for this video! It inspires me to start learning Latin and Greek. I hope to persevere even with a busy schedule. Keep up the excellent content! 👏
May the restoration come! Isaiah 58 : 12! I dream of planting my own classical college in Kauai, with our own theatre to perform Greek, Roman, and Shakespearean plays. ❤. It will take me at least 7 years but with Jesus I can do it
Sir, your language does justice to the subject matter. Loved it.
This is so exciting! Climbing Parnassus was my favorite read of 2023.
Very inspiring!
Excellent, awesome and inspiring video. I have a new goal now, Greek and Latin, alongside the vocational study I’m doing, Cybersecurity.
Beautiful
I know this video is a bit older, but I just discovered it and wanted to thank you for posting it; I was unaware of this book until watching this video and immediately ordered it. I look forward to reading it upon arrival!
Superbly produced about a superb subject. I will listen to this over and over. I loved the statement about "It's not just about learning, but becoming." (He said it more elegantly, but it caught my attention.) It reminded me of Jo's fear when Laury set off to college. She understood that he would not come back the same.
Wonderful! Thank you for this very important discussion. TRUTH has been spoken here.
classical education is needed!
My Son aged 13 years is in The "Norwich School" but He's now off to Eton College. Thankyou for your presentation
Your Son’s Name wouldn’t happen to be Jesus, by any chance?
@@dorianphilotheates3769 more piss taking ?
Thank You Sir for reveal me the bok and the writer. Thank you again.🎉
I’m starting kindergarten this fall with the oldest of my three children. This is an inspiration!
why would you choose put a kindergarten through "classical" the whole point of the concept of kindergarten is that it is preschool. They believe they are restoring classical education but kindergarten is a modern concept based around play base education, to prioritize socialization, learning manners, while learning some basics. Schools in the old days did not start until the age of 6.
Kindergarten was meant to get kids ready for school. Classical education doesn't fit with the premise. If used the term grade zero fine but its not a kindergarten.
Yes!
A moving lecture! Superb!
well done
Excellent!!
Many thanks for letting me know about this book--it's now in my Amazon shopping cart! Sounds like it makes one argument for a classical education that I'd agree with (roots of Western Civ, whether you like Western Civ or not) and one I'd disagree with (Greeks and Romans have the best-ever prescription for MEN to live lives of virtue, i.e. MANLINESS).
Your discussion of certain chapters posing difficulty to modern readers calls to mind a chapter from The Closing of The American Mind entitled “From Socrates' Apology to Heidegger's Rektoratsrede.” That one was ROUGH! 😂
I’d love to become a classical education teacher. I a bit hesitant to go sign up for my local community college to get started do to not knowing if it’s even the training I’d want. I’m 45 starting this. I did do some classical education with my children through elementary school and a bit of middle school. Do you have any suggestions on where I could start?
I’ve been taking the Memoria Press courses on my own. I believe there’s an Introduction to Classical Studies textbook that you can use.
For Latin, Lingua Latina
For Greek, Athenaze
@@rasheedlewis1 Thank you for the information. I’ll check it out.
Step 1: Grammar
Bravo 😊
There is making a living and there is a classical education. In making a living as a doctor, accountant, engineer, nurse, etc. you need technical training. You will subsequently paid for the marketable skills you have acquired.
There is nothing stopping someone from reading the classics. Socrates did not go to college. Spending time in college getting trained for something that has no market value is a very expensive mistake.
Wonderful ❤
I freaking love it, like freakin love it love it you god dakn amazing creators, never stop making videos likw that, it feeds to my thirt for themes that are dark academia, mamma mia rombanalla mucho mucho✍️
In my opinion a lot of young men seek wise people who can be their mentor. But first they have to become aware of their longing for tutelage.
This seems to miss the whole point of a truly classic education. That's grounded in the Trivium of grammar, rhetoric, and dialectic, the user's manual of the human mind, that teaches students how to think efficiently, quickly, and rightly. And in the Quadrivium of arithmetic, geometry, astronomy, and music, which teaches students how to apply those skills of thinking to understand, control, and improve the reality around us. The classic literature touted here is necessary, of course, but without an elementary education in those Seven Liberal Arts they are incomprehensible, even if one has been hammered into learning Greek and Latin.
Aren’t you describing neoclassical?
Painless effective education probably does not exist. But people insist on these for one hundred years and blamed teachers. Now we see the results these days where the universities and politics are taken over by ideology and pure nonsenses. The societies consider college education irrelevant. Political discourses are just ways to get more funding for interest groups. Politicians are just political technicians or PR people.
Where would you recommend we start learning?
Start reading the classics, and Hillsdale college has free online lectures that are the same quality/style of this video. Would recommend starting there. There are several lists which have the classics, one set is Mortimer Alders Great Books of the western world, you can also look at curriculum for classical schools such as St. John’s college.
Susan Wise Bauer has some good guides, as does Charlotte Mason. I concur with Mortimer Adler. E.D. Hirsch and Neil Postman, too.
Read broadly. Read the Great Works. Read history.
@@hephaestusfortarier249 Homeric Greek by Clyde Pharr.
That very question was asked around the beginning of the 20th century to Dr. Elliot the head of Harvard. He claimed that by reading three feet of books one could achieve a university education. The publisher Collier, who happened to be attending the lecture insisted Elliot name the books. After reflecting, Elliot supplied the list which measured five feet long and so was born the Harvard Classics.
Trigger warning: I'm an advanced Postmodernist.
I love Classical Greek and Roman Literature. And I think it should be an option for first graders along with Diary of a Wimpy Kid. When Deconstructed, Aristotle's Rhetoric is The Bobby Fisher Teaches Chess of persuasive conversations, pick up and sales. However, what Modernists both infantile postmodernists and conservatives share but are unaware of, is that forcing people to read or learn a certain curriculum can only bring it's equal and opposite reaction.
Don't worry, thousands of Latin, etc. readers worldwide are connecting on the internet and Latin is stronger than ever.
There was also an insane pronoun culture war in early 19th Century Germany. The King of Prussia wanted a united German Church. But the Calvinists and Lutherans fought over; "God Bless Thee" or "God Bless Thou". It became quite heated as it was a common every encounter phrase at the time.
By the way, In the Autobiography of Malcolm X he said that he read Herodotus. So, I picked it up and loved it. Every Ancient book after that was so good. It was like science fiction, a whole new genre opened to my eyes. I did it totally by myself in high school. I've read the works of European Philosophy, Literature and Black Literature. Indian and Chinese. I lived in the UK and France dans la légion étrangère françaiser.
Relax Ecclesiastes 1:9
This is a wonderful defense for learning classical languages. For any interested in learning classical Arabic, Noorart offers the series "Access To Qur'anic Arabic" which contains a textbook, audio set, workbook and reading selections. It comes with a focus on religious studies, but that suites most classical Arabic learners.
Two words. Stoic and Trivium.
You had me until minute 13:00...
Hoc amo.
Despite the classical virtue of making true, objective judgments, short shrift was given here to the many and varied reasons that admiration of Greece and Rome waned in the West. All changes from pre-modern culture are suggested to be something low, cheap, and vaguely communist. The limitations and weaknesses of traditional societies, their significant prejudices and injustices toward women, slaves, non-whites, non-Christians, and others did not break the serene surface of the presentation. The potential defects of democracy are alluded to, but not a gesture is made to the problems of aristocracy, of unmerited elitist exclusion. Amazingly, it's as if things were just ever so lovely throughout the whole of the classical and post-classical West until Lenin and company came along. Who could have possibly complained about anything except those "sleepy" yet "howling" souls unwilling to accept their assigned place in the natural or God-given order-and to learn Greek and Latin?
Of course we have much to learn from the classics and their languages, but despising the new because it is new, or change because it is change, is no more valid than despising the old because it is old. Conservative politics should not be confused with respect for the classics. I believe Plato would be the first to say that his Socrates-executing society was not better than ours. And there was no "classical education" among οἱ πολλοί in ancient Greece; widespread, public education for rich and poor, male and female alike is a quite modern invention.
Thank you for this. You have exemplified here one of the great virtues of Western civilization: Its willingness to criticize itself. You even cite Plato, who, of course, was a great exemplar of this cultural trait. Not only that, but you have cited those human rights concerns that were articulated by Western thinkers, based on Western thought, which were appealed to again and again by the great leaders of social reform East and West, thinkers like Frederick Douglas, Martin Luther King, Jr., Ghandi, Nelson Mandela, etc., who all based their criticisms of injustice on the writings of Western thinkers. I agree with everything you say here.
@@martincothran Thanks for your reply. Yes, the video did not portray that virtue, in my view. But I'm curious about one aspect of your reply: Are you counting the Bible and other religious texts of Judaism, Christianity, or Islam as part of what you are calling Western thought or civilization? Many social reformers were especially inspired by Israelite Scripture, yet the video doesn't mentioned the need to learn Hebrew.
The more relevant New Testament is in Greek.
@@BobStock-n8h Did you mean that the more relevant reason to learn Greek is to read the NT?
@@KingoftheJuice18 The original claim concerned the added benefit of reading foundational texts of Western Civilization in the original languages, hence prioritizing Latin and Greek. The counterclaim questioned why Hebrew was not included. My response was meant to show, as a priority, why Greek would rank higher: you not only get the great literature of Homer and the playwrights, and the philosophy, but also the New Testament, which is, I would argue, more relevant to Western development than "Israelite Scripture," at least marginally, and in terms of what could be gained from an original language study. So the utility of Greek is much higher than Hebrew in that regard. Islam is not Western. My personal view, however, is that reading in translation is good enough, with the right translation, and the study of comparative translations is a vast and fascinating pursuit.
We have the cheap way out , the instant answer devoid of the fundamentals of meaning.
Judging from his life and polity, I’m fully convinced that Donald Trump has read this book, and adheres to its precepts (he’s read “many books” - more books than anyone).
An eloquent
An eloquent argument
Rockefeller education for the slaves...
Suddenly lots of these snake oil promotionals are showing up in my feed.
Selling lots of little dippers at the Pierian Spring ?
I really like this, and it certainly is not false, but what if it is critically incomplete? What if there is an even deeper foundation that reveals even more and shows something critically important missing from this view?
With any knowledge of classical thought, you know its power is as expressed in this video, but how does that interact with another great power, instinct? Can you even consider instinct after the cultural blindness to it we exist in? Much of that comes from "The Church" teachings that humans have no instincts, because that would mean that they are animals instead of divine. Besides, our greatest tools of understanding are based on logic and reason of critical thinking, but instincts are based on the trial and error of evolution with its large component of chance. Reason may not help much with such a slippery topic. Just consider survival instinct, which should be our most powerful instinct. Oh, but you cannot consider it. You have no name for it. Heck, even the French have no name for it. Better still, you have even already forgotten that this paragraph is about instinct. It's just how people think... or don't and instinct does not fit in your mind. Still, it is your oldest and most powerful instinct, even more powerful than your moral instinct that decides what is right and wrong, based on the moral system it knows. It is your survival instinct that makes you choose right. As this video says, there is a great power to words. If you only knew that name of your survival instinct. it would strengthen and enlarge your world more than you would imagine. I am a biologist and was looking for how to release and strengthen our instincts enough to survive the massive changes occurring. Knowledge of the classics alone will not be enough. The essential truths of classical education might be though... if you could sift them out, even without the Latin or Greek. English evolved from them, contains them, and it is a great language that is richer than either. It is the essential lessons of classical education that matters, as they interact with instinct, that matters. The trick is to know what lessons those are. Philosophy can provide great knowledge, but it takes a knowledge of instinct (and biology) to tell what of that knowledge really matters to a human. ... Also, biology, ecology in particular, is what I use to describe the changes that humanity faces, and it shows some important new details that are not in the classical knowledge.
Here's a fun part for you. I say the same things as the video does about the importance of classical education for the same reasons, as well as the critical need for releasing and developing instincts. I'll skip that discussion, but here is another. What happened to classical education might be different than you think. Civil War letters showed a mastery of classical knowledge. I found a 1910 grammar school syllabus that included philosophy. Whan did it become considered an archaic knowledge, as it too commonly is now? ... From my book:
World War I demonstrated the power and wealth of science. The ancient war between science and religion was decisively won in the 1925 Scopes trial, but religion was not the only thing damaged. Philosophy was a collateral casualty. What if that victory by science was Pyric? Science is a jealous mistress. It claims all authority over knowledge and truth, even though it is not good at teaching understanding or even reason. STEM is almost all we teach now, besides perhaps art. (Luckily this is incorrect.) No Home Economics, no Civics, no Manual Arts... What else was lost and does it hurt science? It does. It hurts so many things. Philosophy used to be taught in grammar school. It needs to be again, for science, for healthy families, for mental health, for healthy societies, for so many things. It is the foundation our science, knowledge, government and even our civilization was built upon. They shall not endure without it.
Yes indeedee, science killed philosophy. Now that would be some meme warfare for you. I'm currently writing an essay about how almost every social ill from population decline to the battle of the sexes to drug addiction could be solved by teaching philosophy along with reading and writing. It might even be true.
I like the Classical Education thing
Except I think it focuses too little on Christianity
A strong point.
Ha, ha, Christianism, as most religions, tends to aim for orthodoxy, mostly by making stuff up.
The Classical writers, for all their shortcomings, sincerely tried to get to the truth and would engage in free debate. That's why they always will remain superior. Sorry!
The Classics will always be read. One day, Christanism will be nothing but a footnote.
Classical education tends to supplement Christians understanding of God with pagan writings from the Greeks and Romans. But you don't need Christianity to read works pre-Christian era.
I agree but when the this book was written most people in the western world were studying christianity via church which in this era were the center of community not government but none the less it was an oversight on the narrator's part
@@rtsesmelisthat's a bold thing to say considering christianity rose in the bosom of ancient Rome's height of power and influence
I'd be willing to listen to a defense of classical education, but -- after listening for a third of this -- the speaker just repeats that it's good, without feeling the need to support the claim.
The movement toward democracy has made it no longer possible to sustain a society in which one percent of the population received an education.
What about the Chinese? They seem to be impressive contributors to civilization, not excluding the many benefits immigrants from China have brought to the United States. Not a Latin or Greek scholar among them.
Should we contemplate requiring Eight-Legged Essays on the Confucian Classics? -- they certainly were 'hard'.
Just as we cannot continue to make do with an elite class of One-Percent, so we cannot continue to restrict "culture" to Western Europe. Western Europe gave us Auschwitz, and the atomic bomb dropped on two non-military targets. Genghis Khan, no slouch at conducting massacres, nonetheless listened to the value of not killing productive citizens. Neither Hitler nor Stalin did. Genghis did not have the benefit of classical education, while both Hitler and Stalin did. The latter even went to a seminary.
So no, let us broaden our horizons about what is worthwhile in humane letters; let us study the history of the world, rather than that of a long-deceased belligerent empire.
I am European and evidence suggests that we have developed the most successful civilisation that ever existed. No doubt I will be accused of arrogance but tell me why people of all different backgrounds and races struggle and fight to move to countries which have their roots in European civilisation. In the Western world we should cherish our roots and teach all the achievements of the ancient world. That is our heritage. Then we can turn our attention to the history of the rest of the world.
If by "successful," @@HelenA-fd8vl , you mean industrialized, it is true that the Industrial Revolution took place in England in the last half of the 18th century, and nowhere else before then.
Prosperity -- wealth -- is the reason for the immigration from non-European countries, Helen.
That is, however, not a defense of Classical education, since quite a few non-European, non-Western nations these days are both industrialized and wealthy.
Surely the benefit of a theological education was first-rate in the year 1100 AD, but not so much now. Similarly (and it's not even clear whether the Industrial Revolution depended crucially on the study of Latin and Greek) education might well be "better" in many ways now that virtually the entire world has adopted industrialization.
Next, we are all mixed. Ought the over half of the population of London which is not of English origin study first their own history -- India, the Caribbean, East Africa -- before studying any English history, or ought everyone to receive the same, cosmopolitan, global history, with specific reference to the history of England?
Nobody said you must exclude eastern texts, but heavily focuses on western texts. And this argument is heavily cherry picked. Have you even read any Chinese or Japanese history? These warlords learned the ways of confucious and Lao tzu and not a bit of Aristotle, but commit the worst atrocities of mankind! Like Cao Cao, for example.
@@AsianAnticsOfficial We can agree that the gentlemen in question were innocent of Aristotelianism, but we may well differ on the subjective call of what constitutes the "worst atrocity of mankind". My understanding, if we count the number of dead civilians as the measure of atrocity, that the Tai-ping Rebellion, which leads the total of East Asian wars, had a death toll of 30 million (about the same as the Mongol Conquests -- see Wikipedia), while the Second World War killed some 80 million.
And the 'leader' of the Taiping Rebellion was the younger brother of Jesus Christ, so -- definitely influenced by European culture.
"Worst atrocity" is unavoidably subjective, though, and you may consider it worse if the death is accompanied by torture or rape or starvation.
You can't just live and let live, huh? Christians.
"The Romans leave a desert and call it peace." Tacitus. This video is selective memory and arrogant snobbery at its worst. The Good-Old-Days trope is the contrast of the best of yesterday with the worst of today and then conjuring astonishment that the former wins such a comparison.
The classical type of education has existed ever since the 10th century, and has suited us well until the 19th century. Out of around a millenia's worth of history, what makes us so different? These people are no inferior nor superior by any means, rather we are on the same level as they are, and we are still humans either way, capable of understanding. So just because we have phones and computers, does it just mean we now somehow, "learn differently" or "have more advanced beliefs, does it mean we are beyond Aristotle and his time? No! We simply have different ways of thinking of things, but we are essentially still the same either way.
This is not a “Good Old Days” argument. The modern education system of Darwin and Dewey emphasized pragmatism, and believed it could produce sufficiently efficient armies of factory workers who weren’t meant to be great thinkers so much as they were meant to be acceptably functional in society.
The end result was job holders over well educated minds. Information over formation.
We are living with the 100 year consequences of such an experiment.
It’s worthy of asking, were we to take a random sampling of students from an era of classical education and the same number of students randomly selected from the modern progressive model, which sampling would *overall* contain the more careful, thorough, capable thinkers?
The very quote from Tacitus completely demolishes your “argument” - (and as R.W. Livingstone has observed by way of Augustine, “sed nemo ibi audit vocantem, ‘Venite ad me qui laboratis’...”).
This make no sense. If Greek and Latin is so important to read the poems etc in original language, then the Bible must not be read other than in Hebrew. These languages consumed much precious time that should have been used for environment study, french etc.
“Climbing Parnassus”, eh? - I do it every day, but that’s because I’m a shepherd from a village near Delphi. 🏛🌿🇬🇷