I’ve only driven the new MG ZS EV twice, my only experience of EV’s & more than anything else, it was the sheer driving pleasure that made me buy it. I’m a fan of automatics anyway but the ev was a whole new ball game. I’m not buying it to save the world from emissions or that it might be cheaper to run, I’m buying it because it brings back enjoyment of pure driving pleasure & the ease of home charging. I fully understand now why you & others love ev’s so much, thanks Ryan.
How do you get on with the charging port? I tried to get the salesman to let me plug it in, but all he would say is I have no problem with it. I got fed up with him as he kept me dangling with a quote for my Zoe 41 kWh part exchange value. I've now put a deposit on a new Zoe 52 kWh.
Pure driving pleasure? So you didn't want to consider a Golf GTi, or a Renault V6, or an old or new Mini, or a Focus ST, or a Fiesta St, or a BMW M3, or an old Audi Quattro, or a Renault R5 turbo, or anything else that is a greater pleasure to drive than an EV?
computerbob06 don’t get me wrong, I’ve had some of these cars & yes they provide huge amounts of pleasure too but an ev is just exciting but in a different way.
no im pretty sure they are just going on his home electric, he may not really use public chargers specially as he states going to a petrol station is a inconvenience even though it takes no more than a few mins to fill up with petrol yet you would be sat there for maybe 30 mins charging the electric car which is way more of a inconvenience...lets be honest here you do not get much of a charge from shopping in lidl or aldi and keeping it on charge till you are done unless you are someone who purposely shops really slow just to get more free charge
Free charging is only useful if you have a Tesla or Zoe with it's up to 22kw charge speed as it's painfully slow with an onboard AC charger with the average 6-7 kw onboard charger.
I would love to buy an EV but my wife and I drive less than 3,000 miles a year. I cant justify a new EV, too expensive. As EVs are evolving quickly so used cars are a risk. I will have to wait till EVs get cheaper.
@@piotrgrzesik7870 non ev drivers don't realise that EV's aren't depreciating that much ... especially 2nd hand ones because of the demand. Some are keeping their value after 3 years so the cost of electricity is the main cost... if you do low mileage, get a cheap 2nd hand Leaf
Cost of the vehicle/finance/depreciation is the lions share of cost of ownership. No calculator can make an ev cheaper than an equivalent car over 10 years. Insurance and warranty seems higher on ev's while servicing an ev is still a regular cost that the dealer will not let go, even if it's not needed. At the moment the cost of the ev is too high to compete. I'm looking forward to the future where prices are similar but we are just not there yet. £60 per month in fuel saving won t make up for the additional upfront cost.
Totally agree, the 'buy-in' cost to EV is still prohibitive for many people at the moment. In 45 years of driving the most I've ever paid for a car is £6k and that was for my current car a 10-year-old Benz (estate) oil burner which is regularly used to tow, or transport 4-5 people and luggage on 500 mile round trips or used in estate mode as the family 'mr shifta'. I look forward to the day when there is an EV that I can afford and is capable of carrying out the tasks I regularly do. OK, I know a Tesla X (which I have driven) would do the job now, but I don't have £100k.
Yep. Why do a cost comparison and not included the cost of the car? We're on our 2nd leaf on pcp and pay £200 pm which is great value. Recently inquired about the new leaf and the price would now be £550 pm. Love EV's but not at those prices. Over £500 for a Nissan! Back to ice one our pcp ends next year.
I drive a 2014 Ford CMAX Energi Plug In Hybrid. I can drive all electric for 18 to 21 miles. I can drive to work and plug in and then drive home and plug in. I estimate I drive all electric 80% of the time. In 7000 miles I've only used 51 gals of gas (US) and have a combined gas/electric MPG of 74 to 84 over this last year. A plug in hybrid might be a good purchase for people who want to go electric but still need the range and convenience of a gas car. With that said, my next car will be 100% electric.
Great video , ive never missed ICE cars , i used to convert Aygo's to LPG , cheap as chips to run , but the noise ! EV everytime now , oh and today im filling up my leaf on sunshine for free ! Zappi and PV on my roof , whats not to like. Great video , keep em coming !
I think you are spot about the mileage thing. 12,000 miles yields big worthwhile savings. My situation is different - retired - 3000 miles per annum so the cost of petrol isn't an issue but the purchase price of an EV absolutely is. My automatic Honda Jazz (yes autos absolutely are the best - took me far too long to realise it) cost £12500 for a 9 month old car with a 400 mile range (essential for me despite my low mileage because I do a few longer trips). It's still horses for courses (although - lottery win and I'm having a Tesla!)
My wife & I are both pensioners, we have two cars between us, one just happens to be an Aygo & the other a Renault Grand Modus automatic. We would love to go electric BUT at the age of 73 & mortgage + debt free the thought of PCP or HP horrifies us, we fancy the Kia E Niro but at £36000+ we feel that it's just too much. If the Government was really serious about the populous moving towards EVs then a reduction of VAT to 5 or maybe 10% for EVs only would certainly help.
Doug Scott I think you may have had 1917 in mind😊. Not .me. My hope is for a meaningful tech revolution unhampered by politicians with a vested interest. Fat chance methinks. A pity, we could benefit mankind and the earth. Sticking to the existing technology of fossil fuels will damage everyone eventually. Perhaps I am already too old to see these dire consequences come true, but I do have concerns for future generations who will have to deal with these matters. If anything BEVs should be cheaper than fossil fuelled cars.
That wheezy old man impression I think is spot on what these engines sound like. 😁 From when I had a Smart ForFour petrol courtesy car to replace my EQ, that was horrible as well.
For some reason (I can't remember why) I recently did a similar calculation for my 2 Zoes. I did 14103 with my first 22 kWh in 2 years and so far in 18 months with the current Zoe I've done 18007 miles. That makes 32110 miles divided by an average m/kWh of 4.5 (never less than 3.8 or higher than 5.5) which equals 7135.56 kWs used. My electric was 12p/kW during that time, so multiply those and you get £856.27 which gives £0.03 per mile. That's not counting all the free charges on Ecotricity in the early days and the free charges on Polar with the Polar card from OVO (probably about 10%). I've recently switched to OctopusGo and charge overnight at 5p/kW. Servicing for first Zoe was £85 (didn't have second service, it was handed back a week before it was due) and current Zoe has 3 free (included) services. You don't need to pay a huge fortune for high range anymore. The new 52 kWh Zoe comes into the affordable bracket from just around £24grand for the mid-range model and the new interior is so plush. Worth a view when the demo model comes to your dealer.
@@Sofala As Gavin says an electric car may not suit everybody. The Zoe is what it is. Great for some, not so for others. I personally would prefer a smaller car as I'm retired and my family is all grown up, but I wouldn't discount an iPace if I had the money.
I drive a new Ecosport with 2670 on the Clock, I am an Old Man and drive like one. I rarely go more than 50 MPH on normal roads and 60 - 70 on a Motorway. Other cars race by me to get to a Roundabout or Traffic Lights but we normally leave these together. They leave the Roundabout or Traffic Lights quicker than I do but I generally catch them up at the next, I am, in fact, the ‘Boy Racers worst nightmare, apart from a Caravan? My car is an Automatic and I use the Cruise Control at every sensible opportunity. I leave my MPG set on its original setting and I achieve 35 MPG. I have put a Deposit on an MG ZS EV which I will get around the end of February next and I can’t wait. I know my Preamble was long and boring but I have been driving for over 60 Years and I am almost too late to Enter the Future of Motoring, In 25 Years Petrol and Diesel Vehicles will be on the way out and in 50 Years a memory.
Used EVs are fetching more now than they were one or two years ago, despite being older with more miles on the clock. Try buying one, then you’ll get a better idea of the EV market.
@@dougowt this won't last its due to demand and supply and new EV prices rising . True depreciation isn't know but I expect it to be the same as fossil fuels within 5 years , maybe more due to car manufacturers claiming to be able to makes EVs for same price as petrol by 2025
Paul Houghton Yes it is down to supply and demand. Personally I’ll be surprised if manufacturers will be matching demand in only 5 years. And once the general population get to realise the cost savings and driving experience, then values of ICE’d vehicles will plummet. The second hand market will have an even greater supply v demand gap in 5 years.
Slightly off topic. I drive a 9 year old Qashqai and had to use a brand new VW Golf 18 months ago for 6 weeks, both ICEs (it was a hire car supplied by my insurance company). It was a nice enough car, but getting back to what you are used to is a joy, even if it is an ICE with 60,000 miles on the clock after putting 700 miles on a shiny new car that was delivered with 100 miles on the clock.
I'm changing my old 20mpg hatch for something that my 17 year old son can drive in the new year. After watching your channel for the last year or so I'm convinced that a s/h Leaf is the answer - the only stumbling block is insurance. Quotes for the Leaf are twice the price of a Polo/Golf and completely wipe out the savings in running costs. I will shop around further when the time comes but I sincerely hoped that I had bought my last petrol powered car.
Simon Dykes fantastic news. Glad I could help. I think the problem with insurance for young people and new drivers is the extra power EVs have. Personally I didn’t see a difference in insurance costs but I’m old and have been driving since 17. I do hear a lot of people complain about the extra. I hope you can find a good compromise 👍
You are absolutely right It's impossible to put a price on the better driving experience of an EV. (You need to consider the cost of paracetamol needed after a long journey driving an ICE car!)
This discussion is completely one sided, and simply unfair. You are comparing cars in different categories, so obviously the Nissan Leaf is better to drive since it belong to the higher category. Difference in price between the cars make up for the savings in fuel. Toyota Aygo costs 10,495€ and a Nissan Leaf starts at 32,400€. Where are the savings? I don't see any.
Paulo Moniz I didn’t understand his comment that “the savings over 10 years was equal to the price of the Aygo therefore the Leaf was cheaper”. Total non sequiteur. As you point out it’s the difference in capital invested that is the factor to consider
You make some good points. Up here in Norway, the economics of it all is even more sensible. Trading in my 2013 Peugeot for an Ioniq a few weeks back, the amount of money I save on fuel and the small loan I had on the Pug is enough to pay the loan cost and fuel cost of the Ioniq. With service and repair costs being the actual savings in my personal economy. As for the driving experience, it is actually something of a letdown driving the fossil car we still have in our household. As that car is a Mercedes, those who haven't driven EVs yet can draw some conclusions from that little tidbit. I went EV due to the economy of it, but a few weeks in it is the driving experience that makes me conclude that EVs is the future, and that fossil cars deserves to go from being cars to becoming fossils.
That is exactly why I got my Chevy bolt for as I only drive less than 7 miles a day for work and only about maybe 20 miles or so for leisure activities. My wife is always upset that I could drive my ice car and only spend about $40 a month in gas while since I’ve gotten the bolt I’ve only spent about $12 in electricity over the entire month. So I’m definitely one fit it into going electric
Totally enjoying these videos. I'd like to see an adversarial opinion ie somebody who has a need for something that the 24 kwh Leaf couldn't cover. I think the greater majority of folks could live with the 24 kwh Leaf. My brother in law has a 55 mile commute. Leaf wouldn't work. He bought a Kona. 52000 Canadian dollars. That's a lot for us regular folks. I think he could have arranged for a level 2 charge at his place of work if he'd pursued it.
good video, personaly i have had my leaf for a month now, in my old passat (2007, b6) i was putting some 50 to 75 pounds a month in it, my leaf ... total 15 pounds, similar milage and useage
You can get a nearly new 2019 69 reg Aygo for £7k that's £700 a year or just £58 a month if you want to keep it for 10 years. Aygo comes with 5 years warranty and service costs less than £100 every 12k miles. Full tank of fuel costs £35 and it gives you 350-400 miles range real life depending on how many motorway miles you do. Now, let's calculate the cost of financing/servicing a Nissan Leaf, just curious to know.
Sorry this makes no sense but if we just go on purchase price Nissan Leaf is 28k after grants and a Automatic Aygo is under 13k, so basically what ever you saving in fuel does not even come close? Which ever way you look at it 5 or 10 years unless you doing lots of miles it’s still cheaper to get a petrol car.
So £8500 ‘saving’ plus £9000 for the Argo, that’s £17,500. That pales into insignificance compared with the £30,000 Leaf. Unfortunately EVs are still too expensive. Once they’re lower, I’ll switch.
I drive a 20 year old Peugeot 106 diesel. It does 80mpg, and cost me £500 to buy. I travel 110 miles round trip to work and back and as much as I would LOVE an EV there is no way I can justify the initial cost, and until the range is sorted out it's a no-no anyway from what I have seen......great video though.
As far as fuel goes i know i was using $250-$300 each month with gas, now with my Leaf i still drive same distance but electric use is $50-$55 a month...so been a big change for me. I have thought about if i need to bring my car in for repairs like you did if i could get an ev, if not will have to remember to stop at the rest stops..i mean gas stations :)
Totally agree with you but the iceing on the cake is if you are using solar to charge it as I do and on bad days my 5p a Kw Octopus Energy after midnight EV tariff then its a no brainer // As regards noise I don't even turn the radio on to spoiler the silence of motion
While I can only offer information for the U.S., the math does not support a mad rush to switch to EV's...at least not here in the States. Studies and cost analyses have shown that you only save $600-800 A YEAR for the inconveniences of having a car with slow recharge times, limited ranges and battery-crippling capacity in cold climates.Then there is the issue of the high upfront purchase price, many times upwards to 100% more than a comparably-sized and featured car. And let's not forget the 'invisible' white elephant that EV fans HATE to talk about - replacing the battery skate after 10 years; with a price between $8000-$12000. Once you factor that in, the savings paradigm goes right out the window.
jaro essa I agree that the states aren’t as forward thinking as other places in the world so gas is cheaper and subsidies less but some of your concerns are now outdated. Have a look at data on modern batteries. They won’t be needing replacing after 10 years 😁👍
Good video. Also worth adding that although the issue battery degradation seems exaggerated and out of date these days, even if it does happen, the vehicle is still usable. It just needs charging more often! A vehicle that can manage 40 miles still probably meets 90% of a user's driving needs on a single charge. Also note that rapid charging infrastructure will be utterly transformed in 10 years time - so it would be even less of a problem by then.
What about mentioning the cost of having to take time off work to take my wife's Volvo XC90 for service and repairs. Twice in for repairs in the first 2 years of ownership. Now have a recall on a faulty part so it has to go in again! Approximately $250 per service every 6 months as well. Plus it is premium fuel at $1.35 per litre (Yes I know we have it cheap in Canada) Over the past 2 years the volvo has cost $6200 all in and my tesla has cost $600 all in. You just can't beat an EV. I am keen to get my wife a tesla model Y as I honestly think you will be hard pressed to even GIVE your ice vehicle away in 5 years. No-one will want them, they will be too expensive to run, with all the service and repairs in comparison to an EV. Also I even think gas prices are going to be coming down in the next 3 years as less and less people will need it and as demand drops so will cost. Even with cheaper gas it will not be affordable compared to an EV. Ford might survive with their recent investment into Rivian, but I think GM and Chrysler will be bankrupt within 5 years. Time to move our your stock in those companies and invest in sustainable resources. Great video, Ryan. Keep them coming
David Walley that’s an interesting point. The world works on supply and demand. Will petrol and diesel hang on for a few more years as the price falls?
@@EVOpinion I'm sure petrol and diesel will be available for years to come but probably at less and less petrol stations, ready for "vintage" cars that run on old liquid fuels
Wow...and pardon my bluntness, but...you're getting hosed on your service charges. I have my car serviced every 6 months, at a certified automotive service center, and I only pay $52 A YEAR!! Might be time for you to start changing the oil and filters yourself every 6 months with rip-off prices like that.
Nice shot of St Catherine's chapel and the fleet 😊 I currently drive a mini cooper as so love the fun drive. I'm going to see the new mini electric in a couple of weeks time. I very nearly pressed the pre-order button for it. What stopped me was range. My parent's live 166 miles away ( not far from the Fleet!) and really I'd like a car to be able to do that trip in one go as I don't have access to other cars for longer trips. I am sure the mini-se won't which is a shame it'd be fine for my daily commute however.
I pay 5ppKw charging from 0030 to 0430 using Octopus so our savings using the Zoe Q90 will be huge !. But like most others the sheer enjoyment of driving electric over ice cars is wonderful...my other car is a TT roadster, auto !
I have a 24kwh Leaf, but wow that new non American 2020 Toyota Yaris hybrid will be an amazing car some claim up to 80mpg and will be an amazing price along with tech to the max and even will come in AWD.
Sir, I could not agree more with what you are saying! EVs rule all the way! Personally, I am one full year into owning a 2019 Chevrolet Bolt and it has been one of the most wonderful experiences in my whole life! First, it just does not break down. Having far less moving parts in an EV means a far smaller probability of malfunction. During the year just passed, my Bolt had no failures whatsoever. Zip. It just keeps going and going. This means fewer visits to your mechanics and spending way less time and money. Second, what you did not include in your calculations is maintenance costs that can be pretty significant. Oil, filters, sparks, belts, brake pads, exhaust gimmicks... you name it! An EV simply does not have any of that... except brake pads that you use very seldom - 99% of the time, I use the regenerative braking feature that slows down and stops my Bolt without any interference from the brakes while pumping energy back into the battery. Third, the ride quality that you mentioned. With practically no noise and vibration, with its non-existent gearbox and 200 hp of instant torque, my Bolt EV is a silent fighter jet. Depending on what you want from it, it can gently hover over the road or throw you back in your seat. All you have to do is slightly touch the accelerator pedal. This is to say nothing about the environmental footprint. Every once in a while, I receive an email from GM showing how much gas I DID NOT burn, how much oil I DID NOT use, how much CO2 I DID NOT emit, and how much brake dust I DID NOT throw in the air we all breathe. I don't know about you but it makes me feel better. EVs are the future and there is no way around it.
Some good interesting points and fair comparison However, then it just gets silly and it spoils it You talk about being sick of going to the petrol station ⛽️ You did 600 miles in all the time you had the Aygo My diesel does 700 miles to a single tank Taking the fact that an Aygo is much smaller, surely it could manage 300 miles to a tank at least - so that’s maximum 2 trips to a petrol station in the few weeks you had it What were you doing - sticking £5 in at a time ? Love your channel, but keep it real for us ICE people who are looking to learn from you regarding EVs Thanks 👍🏼
You can get 500 miles out of an Aygo (I have it's brother a C1) without too much trouble. If I drive it more enthusiastically I get more like 400 miles. He got very similar to that. So yes one fill-up when he got it and then probably on day 12. I'm pretty sure he visited a supermarket in that time that had a petrol station attached.
Great video, I am still dithering about going electric as there are few public charging points in the area where I live. It would be great to see more public chargers and less confusion about payment methods etc, if they all accepted contactless payments I am sure that would increase adoption of EVs.
I'm on the Octopus Go tariff and charge up for 4.72 pence per kWh. I'm currently averaging 5 miles per kWh. Less than a penny per mile on fuel. I think only cyclists can beat that!
I am getting rid of my hybrid and the only car I will replace my 10 year old Prius is with is an EV. NO OTHER vehicle will ever be purchased that runs of a combustible fuel ever again. I stopped at a petrol station after a fantastic meal and almost lost my lunch from the fumes. I won't miss going for oil changes, petrol or wondering how much something will cost me if anything goes wrong. My peace of mind alone will make owning an EV worth it and the benefit of not exposing myself or anyone else to those nasty smelly dangerous chemicals will be something I will be happen to contribute towards.
Interesting as ever but these kinds of comparisons are always fraught with difficulty. Firstly we end up comparing apples with oranges so to speak, secondly it is almost impossible to account for all costs as there are so many variables and usage patterns. This is just my opinion of course but my starting point would be to compare cars in the same size category, so either a Leaf equivalent ICE vehicle or an Aygo equivalent EV. Not easily done at the moment.
I was wondering if the insurance companies ever thought of compensating you for the extra money you spent on petrol you used. Could you rent for Just EV instead?
The Aygo/Leaf comparison is a tad biased towards the Toyota, and many EV owners will get off peak electricity deals. Mine is a standard 8p /kWh so my 2p/mile cost would give a 12k mile cost of £240, or £1080 pa saving, 10 years being £10,800...just another data point ..
I drive an aygo would love an electric version. Looked at the zoe and it's 23k with savings I'd still be better in a aygo. Kinda wish they were cheaper.
Eh? Did the Leaf cost the same as the Aygo? What about depreciation? Over 10 years & 120k miles, perhaps those cars would both be worth almost nothing.....so the Leaf cost a lot more overall, right? I love our KonaEV for the driving experience and home cheap charging (Octopus Go tariff!), but I would struggle to stretch those savings out compared with a small cheap ICE car!
Don't forget EV's have free road tax too so that's another saving. And the fact that they emit zero emissions has got to be one of the most important benefits they just make sense.
I can confirm your calculations after one year with the same model leaf. Sure it depends on the cost of the electric power which in Germany is about 0,30€ /kWh. To be fair the only downside is, that you have to substract your heat energy from the range as colder it gets outside. (depending at which cabin temperature you feel comfortable) On the other hand an EV is ready to use from the first meter and no motor has to be warmed up until it reaches his working condition and fuel consumption as promised in the technical facts. Depending on your daily trip to work not a less amount of the trip, is over the average fuel consumption which also result in unwanted exhausts. It makes a big difference especially on short trips to the next shopping center if I use our EV or the Ice car which motor temperature gauge laughing at me then while the average fuel consumption meter tells me stories about 11l / 100km
@@apangurra2775 at least the task of buying a car is a big loss in every case. I bought my EV used, but I bet that the EVs will reach the same level. At least for me it was the decision to drive electric and not to buy another dinosaur fuel burner.
You say you keep your cars for 10 years. Why? I would suggest that a common ICE car after 120,000 miles is "clapped out", After 10 years the ICE has lost performance, has developed leaks of oil and/or coolant. various parts such as alternators, starter motors and exhaust system are need of replacement, or have been replaced. in other words after !0 years, 120,000 miles an ICE typically is uneconomical to repair. An EV on the other hand should never lose performance. The electric motor either works or it doesn't. The inverter either works or it doesn't. The only thing in the drive train that deteriorates, wears, is the battery and that only affects range. I expect my Kona 64 kWh EV to last 20 years. I expect that I may only have 50% range left, or 32 kWh. That is still usable, particularly considering I will be 81 by then. It is the last car I will buy. Will I last another 20 years as a driver or will I be "clapped out" first!. I will own the Kona outright before I retire in 5.5 years. I am investing in it when I have the earning capacity. Yes there will be suspension parts that will wear and need replacing but all cars do that. Replacing CV joints, ball joints or shock absorbers is not a big task. I also expect battery refurbishment businesses will spring up offering economical refurbished battery packs in 10 years time. If battery technology ever gets down to US$50 per kWh replacing a battery pack will become a non event. Particularly if only the dud cells were replaced. Keep your Leaf for 15 years.
Robyn Edwards counterpoint- I drive a 32 year old truck and a 42 year old motorcycle. ICE cars can last too!. There is more built-in obsolescence in an EV than in just the battery - the heavy dependency on the computer management systems puts them at risk. Ever tried to get parts for a 10 year old PC?
Really enjoyed this one. At the start let me say, I AM AN EV FAN! :-) I sold my 3 year old diesel SUV at the beginning of the year and considered an EV, what I really want ultimately. The prices at the time for EV were still too high - the base Zoe here in Ireland is just shy of €26, 000 after the grant that's given here. I need a small car that will happily cruise the motoway frequently and reasonably quickly; I sit on said motorway and 'B' roads for 1 to 2 hours and on the motorway at 120/130 kilometres per hour. Due to cost I purchased a new Aygo in March of this year; it has a little more power than last years - the one I test drove in fact - and has revised suspension, steering and most significantly vastly improved sound proofing. Compared with one I tested its a refined cruiser and when accelerating actually sounds a 'bit' sporty, unlike the earlier version. Toyota have finally got it right. Not as quiet as the new Leaf my friend has, or any other EV, but it's now pretty good, a pleasant surprise. On the motorway run the biggest surprise has been economy; 60+ MILES per gallon and often heading towards 70 around town and country roads. The gear change is also nice, different again to last years version. On the road price was just under €16500. (Cars do cost more over here compared to UK) It's in for its first service this week, 15000km (faultless) on the clock in the 7 months I've had it, no issues to report. Typucal Toyota I guess. As for servicing costs the first 3 services are included, so no costs there. Its a superb little car that is great fun to drive, is very go-kart like and well put together. I really enjoy it and no one is more surprised than I am. I live in rural Ireland and chargers are not that numerous and often arent working, just the electricity company (ESB) providing them for now, Tesla excepted of course. Home charger would be all I need for the local trips but at the moment - for the reasons outlined above - an EV is not possible for me. Having said all that....my next car WILL be an EV, regrettably not just yet.
Hi, you said something that interested me.. you said your leaf has all of it's bars, (12) and it's a 24kwh battery, and you get a range of 70 miles... I've only had my 2013 Leaf since mid August, this year, it has a range ( on the GOM ) of 110 k ( 70 miles) , but it has only 9 bars. Maybe I don't understand, or I missed something. If I paid over $10,000 dollars I could get a new battery, and have 12 bars... but if I did that, would I still only get 70 miles? I might just keep this car for another 10 years to see how it goes, with the original battery. Thanks for your thought provoking video.
ok regarding replies if you want a direct comparison for the aygo how about the vw up top spec petrol up 13 thousand 400 hundred miles on full tank, electric up 20 thousand pounds 100 miles on a charge if your lucky 7 thousand difference when car dealers start producing electric cars at the same price as there petrol counterparts and with the same range i might buy one .
ok its fine to say the car costs less to run, the thing you didnt mention a new leaf will cost 30 thousand the aygo 13 £17.000 difference so after ten years your still out of pocket with a electric car.
You would more than likely buy a Zoe or similar as it is a more comparable car to the Aygo. In this case, your running costs would be even better. You seem to forget the servicing costs of an ice vehicle - cambelts, clutches, dual mass flywheels, exhausts, gearbox issues, injectors, oil changes, x4 more regular brake maintenance. This all gets very costly over 10 years.
Agree the price difference, but these are not comparable cars. A Leaf is a much bigger car, more comparable to a Ford Focus in terms of its size and with a much higher level of performance. Nevertheless, I agree prices are way too high. Government needs to intervene by increasing taxes on new fossil cars and reducing them on EV's. This would persuade more people to demand EV's and manufacturers would have to address that demand. Once production levels of EV's outstrip fossil production cost savings the change would be complete.
Something I’ve been thinking about is , do I need to think differently about how I buy my next car if it’s going to be electric. Currently I buy my cars using PCP , I pay small deposit then monthly for a couple of years then I chop it in for the next new car before I get any significant bills , it’s peace of mind motoring . The difference with an electric car is there aren’t any significant bills , hardly any wear and tear means the car will be ultra reliable for a lot longer than a couple of years , maybe I’ll be looking having the car for double or triple what I’m used to . Also everything I’m hearing about the way electric cars are going to designed suggests that facelifts will be a thing of the past too and over the air system updates like on an iPhone will be the new “facelift “ . Everything is pointing to me owning my electric car a lot longer which will mean my buying platform will be out of date . Will there be a new buying platform I wonder ?
nissan leafs are getting written off every day due to cost of electronic repairs, even if we forget the battery, the electronics are so complicated with power inverters and control systems that owning an ageing ev will be a very risky proposition. Dealers are charging silly prices just to diagnose these vehicles, so I wouldn't put an EV into a trouble free long lasting category. Have a check at some of the prices that tesla would have charged if out of warranty, frightening.
Fast chargers are nearer 30p per mile, so savings on longer runs requiring a fast charge are a lot less. And EV cars cost more in the first place. I’m not so sure that making savings is the biggest benefit of EVs. To me it is the driving experience that is the clincher.
I fancy changing to EV but I find the diferent methods of charging away from home totally confusing. Do you have to be signed up have a account, have a app or a card it just goes on and on even the different map apps are confusing. Any chance of a basic explanation to all the different methods in a way anyone can understand please.
Hi David. I had the same worries before I bought my Ioniq last year. My advice would be to visit zap-map.com and abetterrouteplanner.com and get familiar with how they work before you buy an EV. Zap-Map (which is also available as an app on your phone) allows you to filter the networks, and Instavolt, Engenie and Shell have contactless payments so no subscriptions, apps or RFID cards. A Better Route Planner allows you to plan a road trip and shows you how far you can go before you need to charge and where you can charge up (at the above mentioned networks). Oh, and get the Pod Point app because it allows you to charge for free at car parks and supermarkets. Mostly though, you'll end up charging at home overnight. (No standing with a nozzle in your hand in the freezing cold in winter.)
Petrol/diesel prices may increase more than electric not to mention cities charging or banning ice cars in the future makes electric cars a better choice if range and charging suit the daily commute Given time the infrastructure and range will improve
Ryan, seriously considering to buy my first EV, having watched many of your videos and others. With regard to the 30kwh Nissan Leaf, is a 3kw charging sufficient given that we only do approx 150 miles a week, in and around Dorset, or should I consider 6kw charging? regards Mike
would love a ev but not able to charge at home stops me .as i would have to travel 10 miles to nearest charger ,also would i be right in thinking only rapid charging the battery is not good for it
Hi just a point to note. I as yourself own a leaf I do approximately 12 to 13 thousand miles per year and my car is a 24kwh same as yours. My leaf has done 60k miles 60425 to be exact. I have lost one capacity bar and leaf spy indicates 82.14% state of health. I am not as confident as yourself to get to the ten year point with a usable range on my car. I’m not being negative I’m just not as confident as you. I still love my cheap to own electric car though.🤓
I just love electronic cars and that is the way we all need to go but I’m concerned,what happens when the battery is dead,how do they get rid of it?what I’m saying does the battery cause more pollution when the dispose of it ?
Nora Halkefs I am no expert but I do know that when a battery is no good from a car they get recycled into home storage batteries. They are also made up of lots of cells. Those individual cells can be replaced so just because one part of the battery fails doesn’t mean the whole lot needs scrapping. I think we need to look at the overall effect of building, running and scrapping a engine against a battery and I don’t know the answer but suspect a battery is better 😁
Batteries can be recycled for their valuable elements. It isn't economical at the moment because there aren't that many worn out batteries (from EV's or home storage). However, in 10 years time when older EV's come to the end of their life, I can see a whole new industry starting up in battery recycling.
This does not take into consideration higher new EV price. Would you try to get a similar comparison of brand new Hyundai Kona petrol vs brand new Kona electric? Total cost of ownership,
Problem is good used cars exist for only a few thousand pounds. You'd be long dead before you recoup the lower running costs. As more people go electric you can be sure the price of electric will go up and the novelty of free charging will be gone.
yes electric is cheaper. but the cost of having driveway or garage is more than the price of tesla. so ice is somewhat cheaper for those who is not fortunate enough to have driveway or garage
Shows how some of the prices from ecotricity and instavolt make. Ev charging more expensive than petrol and why it's best to charge at home wherever possible
domhnall dods instavolt is 35pkwh. So 40kwh leaf to full is £14, to do 150 miles. Say a petrol can do 600 miles, or 4 charges that £56. You can’t get 55l of petrol these days for £56 now can you :)
@@petercowdell1328 hmmm i don't get 150 miles. Yesterday I did Edinburgh to Aberdeen, 130 ish miles. Left at 100%, got to Dundee (63 miles) at 40%left. Recharged to 80% at 36p per kwh and reached Aberdeen (roughly another 65 miles) only 20% left. In a petrol car I'd have done it 40 minutes quicker too as I'd have done the trip without stopping.
Electric's cheaper except for a certain group. That is people who have very cheap cars and drive very few miles. My 15 year old Fabia cost me £500 pounds and eleven pence a mile to run in fuel. As I only drive about 4,000 miles a year that gives me 4,000 times seven pence a year in savings if I got say a Zoe. At £280 pounds a year it would take me twenty years to be ahead of the deal. As I actually really want a Zoe I keep doing the sums to try and make it work but as they seem to have completely stopped depreciating in the last two years I don't seem to be getting any closer. For just about anyone else just go out and do it. It'll make you happy, save you money and maybe leave a habitable planet for your grandkids :)
No doubt there are fuel cost savings to be had under the right circumstances, but the notion that EVs are cheaper to service then ICE equivalents simply isn’t true It should be true as less moving parts etc, but if like me you keep the servicing at a main dealer, they charge the same for an EV as they do for the equivalent ICE car It’s important we don’t mislead potential EV purchasers with this somewhat false declaration of cheap motoring
I have no place to charge I home. I use tesla supertchargers as they are currently free. I use polar plus at £7.85 per month, and pod point pay as you go. Polar is the cheapest pay service 12p kw at fast chargers, 15p at Rapids. So first month of use I've paid £10 for 1300 miles. Will cost more after 6 months when my free supercharging runs out. Main point is I can get by without charging at home. I was quoted a whopping £3.5k to have new fuse box and cabling installed. So not worth the money as thats 3 or more years of public charge fees and then I still have to pay the electric.
@@Walterp60 Good for you. It would not work out for me. I have a supercharger about 10 miles round trip from me but don't feel like spending an hour a day or more charging and waiting in the parking lot. Perhaps people in an urban setting can make it work though.
Just because you have all the bars, doesn't mean you have a healthy battery! My old phone was fine, but it just couldn't hold a charge anymore! For your 12k miles a year you must be charging your car at 170 times a year, so I wonder how many cycles it has left in it? It will be great if you keep the Leaf for another 5 years - yours could be the only channel to really stress test an EV. I'm thinking it'll get to a point where it falls off a cliff, and will only charge to about 30% capacity one day. Most EV drivers I watch on UA-cam always drive on motorways at 50mph etc, is it possible to do a range test at 70 to 80 mph?
see I am still on the fence, I need a new car next year, I have been driving since 2016 and ended up with a 2007 honda civic 2.2 diesel. I got the car when it had 125k on the clock and from me getting it till now it is on 138k so yeh you can tell I do not really drive far. The only electric car I would want as of now is the BMW i3 I just do not like the leaf or zoe, I was thinking of finance really as I can not afford to buy a car outright, it would be used and I can get the spec I want for around £265 a month pretty sure id be getting a REX version just incase I do need to travel further and for piece of mind and they are the 2016/66 models but my issue is public charging my area is beyond bad really and I always look at the few charging spaces at aldi etc and they are nearly always iced also the cost, of the car itself basically I would be getting my next car on PCP but I would be handing it back instead of paying the final big chunk of money then I can get another car but for the same price as this per month I could get a new shape A-class with 7k on the clock or a good spec allure 3008 these are the 3 cars really I keep looking at and have been doing for AGES so I am trying to weigh everything up seeing what is best and how much BANG I get for my BUCK, I know yeh the I3 is better for the environment but for me and most people that is not the main issue specially when you have limited money and want the best for that money. This is one of the reasons why its slow getting people in the UK to get a electric car...you get more for you`re money with a petrol car still...and yeh the charging up. Home charging wise I live with my family...wont be changing at all in the near future so if I got the I3 id have to put up with a normal wall socket to charge though I would end up with a wall charger I think, we have a drive but the caravans on it though I could pull the car onto the grass at the side....just no drop curb on that part of the path....see im thinking about tyres as they are horridly expensive on the I3 to replace...current tyres for my car £50 fitted I live in the Doncaster area and its pretty thin pickings for public charging stations more so in my part of the area, hell our main shopping centre frenchgate has a multi story carpark as well as parking all on the roof has ZERO charging stations for electric cars :/ it would help if I could test drive a I3 but there is nowhere near me I can do that really. I have been debating for well over a year haha...I only put £30 a month in diesel
marklola12 I think your comment just about sums up most people’s thinking. I would say don’t worry about local charging as you only ever charge at home, even with a three pinned plug. Do the sums and see if it works. If not wait a year and try again. At some point it will but don’t leave yourself out of pocket. Sometimes it’s cheaper to fuel the car you own than buy a EV on finance!
Hello from Seattle, USA, I visited Doncaster a few years ago and enjoyed my stay very much. I took a train from Cardiff to Doncaster spending a week with relatives there. We went on day adventures to Whitby and York across the Yorkshire Dales. We had lunch at The Barrel Inn on Sir Williams Road in the Peak District. They cooked me Yorkshire Pudding. I had a great time. I was impressed by your train service. In Seattle, we have ONE passenger train to Los Angeles a day and ONE passenger train to Chicago a day. You have passenger trains leaving for Kings Cross, London every 30 minutes on week days. That is amazing to me. After 40 years of driving petrol cars I now drive a 14 kwh battery EV with range extender. I charge at home and pay $20 extra a month in electricity plus $100 a year in petrol. My three old car is now worth 15000 pounds ($20000). Stats so far are... Total miles: 27721 Pure EV miles: 24070 Percent EV: 86.9 mpgE: 87.3 mpg: 312 Average miles per year: 9000. Average miles per day: 24 Granted its range extender petrol engine might not reach 30000 miles on it in my lifetime. (at 1000 miles a year times 30 years if I am lucky). Gets 60 miles of EV range in the summer, 50 miles of EV range in the winter.
Thanks, very interesting, but.... Petrol prices and electricity prices are manipulated by UK Gov. Elec has reduced Vat and no fuel Excise duty, wait until UK Gov loses too much revenue, then things may change. It wi however be a nightmare for the Gov to regulate, how to differentiate between domestic use of elec, and car fuel use, just get the extension lead from your domestic socket, job done. You make very valid points about driving experience, and avoiding hassle of filling stations, provided you charge at home. Thanks for the video.
Whilst I have no doubt that the driving experience of an electric car is better I tend to do longer trips and the hassle of having to stop to recharge would be unworkable. I did a road trip through France just this year. Did I see many recharging points? No. Where there any convenient charging places at the hotels and airbnb we stayed at ? No. Trying this trip in an electric car would have been awkward without planning carefully so I am sure things will get there but not for some years yet. I will leave it for others to sort the problems out. Also it appears that nissan leaf have severe battery problems as their batteries are not adequately cooled in hot climates leading to early battery failure something nissan seem unwilling to accept as their fault.
If you drive more than 2 hours without stopping, it's dangerous for you, for your passengers, and for other road users. You can use these stoppages to charge an EV. Stop, revive, and survive.
I was just wondering if you did your road trip without planning where you were going? I have done road trips with ICE's in the past and with an EV now, and have found no difference. You still have to have comfort breaks and stop for fuel. EV drivers can use abetterrouteplanner.com to show them the best route to their destination, and combine the refuelling stop with a comfort break.
Man this is not correct. This is not appropriate. Man I have a Toyota aygo 1.0 2008 and in average I am spending. 0.075 to 0.085 pences per mile or 4.5 to 5.1 to 5.3 litres per khm so on average something around 8 to 8.5 pences per mile.
Taxing an EV is nil as long as you don't go over £40k, if you want an auto ice car then that's another grand upwards, long term far more to go wrong with an ice car. I'm on the long waiting list for a Kona EV, can't wait .
@@PabloTBrave I would guess that when EV sales pass ICE sales then the government will start to tax EV's to recover lost revenue from road tax and fuel tax. I expect road tax to be higher than it is for ICE cars at the moment because I don't buy petrol or diesel. I'm just enjoying the free ride while it lasts. :)
@@alaneasthope2357without a doubt. rumours of scrapping road tax for all and the introduction of price per mile for all little box in the car that kind of thing. EVs don't polute but they cause congestion damage roads and run people of just like other vehicles.
If like myself you have an EV & no home charging due to no off street parking or garage the costs could ramp up some what. Public charging in Fife at the moment is free but they are soon to start applying a fee. If its more than a few pence over a standard home tariff I'm way out of pocket and the EV will have to go. Not much incentive for 20-30% of people in the UK with no home charging to go EV. That has to change if the government push forward with there green policies, but I guess it wont!....always after our hard earned money and the people will never win.
the elephant in the room is if you were paying the same amount of tax as a petrol car driver on their petrol you would find out that the petrol car would be cheaper in the long run..in the not to distant future you will find the government will put huge taxes on electric car to make up for the money lost on petrol cars which will run into billions. having said that im waiting for the price of electric cars to come down so I can afford one
Maybe the Chancellor will do the sums in due course. After all, excise duty in the UK is just under 58p/l for all road fuel, plus 20% VAT on top of the total commercial price+excise duty, whereas the VAT rate on domestic electricity is only 5% at present. They won’t like the loss of tax revenue if fuel oil becomes less popular.
Someone just bought back an Kia e niro cost too much money compared to a diesel over all u need to drive lots of miles to get ya money back they cost too much new
You will find plenty of willing buyers. It's a great car. The big problem is that all legacy manufacturers have a huge vested interest in keeping prices of EV's high so you will buy their very profitable fossil gobblers. In the meantime we continue to pollute. It's not the fault of the public that we are being overcharged. Blame governments for allowing legacy manufacturers to dictate what we buy by having unnecessarily high prices for EV's.
Where are your charging loses u lose about 10% from heat/resistance if not more also u don't have full power when your battery is low u can't compare apples to apples
Mark Williams get your facts right or don’t bother commenting. An EV is massively more efficient than an ICE powered vehicle. Spend £100 on fuel and watch over £70 get wasted on heat and friction. That’s without taking into account that the brakes are turning more energy into heat and wearing the brakes out at the same time. When does you ICE make its own fuel?
@Richard Wood The charging losses are included in the cost of charging the car. Just like the £70+ you lose in every £100 turning petrol/diesel into power with an ice. Maybe we should give that a mention too.
this is the worst comparison ever.... 1. you look only at people who literally do not drive their cars. 2. for someone like me who does 120 miles per day and then takes long journeys over weekends your pathetic leaf or majority of the cars are worthless 3. you deliberately for some reason do not talk about public charging costs and this is where your dishonesty starts. most public charging stations are 39p per kw that equal or more than what you pay for petrol you have to sit for an hour (if not more when you are waiting for someone) to charge your car you cannot guarantee that free charging or charging at work will be available since more people are conned into EV
I’ve only driven the new MG ZS EV twice, my only experience of EV’s & more than anything else, it was the sheer driving pleasure that made me buy it. I’m a fan of automatics anyway but the ev was a whole new ball game. I’m not buying it to save the world from emissions or that it might be cheaper to run, I’m buying it because it brings back enjoyment of pure driving pleasure & the ease of home charging. I fully understand now why you & others love ev’s so much, thanks Ryan.
How do you get on with the charging port? I tried to get the salesman to let me plug it in, but all he would say is I have no problem with it. I got fed up with him as he kept me dangling with a quote for my Zoe 41 kWh part exchange value. I've now put a deposit on a new Zoe 52 kWh.
Pure driving pleasure? So you didn't want to consider a Golf GTi, or a Renault V6, or an old or new Mini, or a Focus ST, or a Fiesta St, or a BMW M3, or an old Audi Quattro, or a Renault R5 turbo, or anything else that is a greater pleasure to drive than an EV?
computerbob06 don’t get me wrong, I’ve had some of these cars & yes they provide huge amounts of pleasure too but an ev is just exciting but in a different way.
Man with Zoe asked about plugging it in, it’s a poor design in that regard, no argument there.
@@computerbob06 You OBVIOUSLY have never driven an EV, Why are you even here?
Those figures did not include the free electric you can sometimes obtain at your local Tesco, Lidl and others.
no im pretty sure they are just going on his home electric, he may not really use public chargers specially as he states going to a petrol station is a inconvenience even though it takes no more than a few mins to fill up with petrol yet you would be sat there for maybe 30 mins charging the electric car which is way more of a inconvenience...lets be honest here you do not get much of a charge from shopping in lidl or aldi and keeping it on charge till you are done unless you are someone who purposely shops really slow just to get more free charge
We have three Lidl in Blackpool and not one of them has charging points for evs...
Free charging is only useful if you have a Tesla or Zoe with it's up to 22kw charge speed as it's painfully slow with an onboard AC charger with the average 6-7 kw onboard charger.
Greg Must disagree. I used several Lidl's that had free rapid charging for more than a year, supporting ChaDemo and CCS
@@stephenshannon3706 Well that is different I was talking about that most only offer free AC charging.
I would love to buy an EV but my wife and I drive less than 3,000 miles a year. I cant justify a new EV, too expensive. As EVs are evolving quickly so used cars are a risk. I will have to wait till EVs get cheaper.
Why used a risk?
@@piotrgrzesik7870 non ev drivers don't realise that EV's aren't depreciating that much ... especially 2nd hand ones because of the demand. Some are keeping their value after 3 years so the cost of electricity is the main cost... if you do low mileage, get a cheap 2nd hand Leaf
@@michaelherlihy2090 I have Toyota Aygo at the moment. I do 4000 miles per year. Ev cost run will similar money, but Aygo is less risk.
@@michaelherlihy2090 www.themoneycalculator.com/vehicle-finance/calculators/car-depreciation-by-make-and-model/NISSAN/LEAF/
Cost of the vehicle/finance/depreciation is the lions share of cost of ownership. No calculator can make an ev cheaper than an equivalent car over 10 years. Insurance and warranty seems higher on ev's while servicing an ev is still a regular cost that the dealer will not let go, even if it's not needed. At the moment the cost of the ev is too high to compete. I'm looking forward to the future where prices are similar but we are just not there yet. £60 per month in fuel saving won t make up for the additional upfront cost.
Totally agree, the 'buy-in' cost to EV is still prohibitive for many people at the moment. In 45 years of driving the most I've ever paid for a car is £6k and that was for my current car a 10-year-old Benz (estate) oil burner which is regularly used to tow, or transport 4-5 people and luggage on 500 mile round trips or used in estate mode as the family 'mr shifta'. I look forward to the day when there is an EV that I can afford and is capable of carrying out the tasks I regularly do. OK, I know a Tesla X (which I have driven) would do the job now, but I don't have £100k.
Yep. Why do a cost comparison and not included the cost of the car? We're on our 2nd leaf on pcp and pay £200 pm which is great value. Recently inquired about the new leaf and the price would now be £550 pm. Love EV's but not at those prices. Over £500 for a Nissan! Back to ice one our pcp ends next year.
I drive a 2014 Ford CMAX Energi Plug In Hybrid. I can drive all electric for 18 to 21 miles. I can drive to work and plug in and then drive home and plug in. I estimate I drive all electric 80% of the time. In 7000 miles I've only used 51 gals of gas (US) and have a combined gas/electric MPG of 74 to 84 over this last year. A plug in hybrid might be a good purchase for people who want to go electric but still need the range and convenience of a gas car. With that said, my next car will be 100% electric.
Great video , ive never missed ICE cars , i used to convert Aygo's to LPG , cheap as chips to run , but the noise ! EV everytime now , oh and today im filling up my leaf on sunshine for free ! Zappi and PV on my roof , whats not to like. Great video , keep em coming !
I think you are spot about the mileage thing. 12,000 miles yields big worthwhile savings. My situation is different - retired - 3000 miles per annum so the cost of petrol isn't an issue but the purchase price of an EV absolutely is. My automatic Honda Jazz (yes autos absolutely are the best - took me far too long to realise it) cost £12500 for a 9 month old car with a 400 mile range (essential for me despite my low mileage because I do a few longer trips). It's still horses for courses (although - lottery win and I'm having a Tesla!)
My wife & I are both pensioners, we have two cars between us, one just happens to be an Aygo & the other a Renault Grand Modus automatic. We would love to go electric BUT at the age of 73 & mortgage + debt free the thought of PCP or HP horrifies us, we fancy the Kia E Niro but at £36000+ we feel that it's just too much. If the Government was really serious about the populous moving towards EVs then a reduction of VAT to 5 or maybe 10% for EVs only would certainly help.
This Government is always bragging about being green, but it is a lot of BS. Their policies are completely inconsistent.
COME THE REVOLUTION, THEY'LL ALL STAND AGAINST THE WALL!!
Doug Scott I think you may have had 1917 in mind😊. Not .me. My hope is for a meaningful tech revolution unhampered by politicians with a vested interest. Fat chance methinks. A pity, we could benefit mankind and the earth. Sticking to the existing technology of fossil fuels will damage everyone eventually. Perhaps I am already too old to see these dire consequences come true, but I do have concerns for future generations who will have to deal with these matters. If anything BEVs should be cheaper than fossil fuelled cars.
That wheezy old man impression I think is spot on what these engines sound like. 😁 From when I had a Smart ForFour petrol courtesy car to replace my EQ, that was horrible as well.
For some reason (I can't remember why) I recently did a similar calculation for my 2 Zoes. I did 14103 with my first 22 kWh in 2 years and so far in 18 months with the current Zoe I've done 18007 miles. That makes 32110 miles divided by an average m/kWh of 4.5 (never less than 3.8 or higher than 5.5) which equals 7135.56 kWs used. My electric was 12p/kW during that time, so multiply those and you get £856.27 which gives £0.03 per mile. That's not counting all the free charges on Ecotricity in the early days and the free charges on Polar with the Polar card from OVO (probably about 10%). I've recently switched to OctopusGo and charge overnight at 5p/kW. Servicing for first Zoe was £85 (didn't have second service, it was handed back a week before it was due) and current Zoe has 3 free (included) services.
You don't need to pay a huge fortune for high range anymore. The new 52 kWh Zoe comes into the affordable bracket from just around £24grand for the mid-range model and the new interior is so plush. Worth a view when the demo model comes to your dealer.
Whilst I agree with most of your points the Renault Zoe is just not big enough for me and my family.
@@Sofala As Gavin says an electric car may not suit everybody. The Zoe is what it is. Great for some, not so for others. I personally would prefer a smaller car as I'm retired and my family is all grown up, but I wouldn't discount an iPace if I had the money.
Man with Zoe thanks for your comments. It’s always good to hear from others that my experiences are normal😁😁👍
@@manwithcorsae7738 I would love an ipace as well but like you money is the issue.
We use Octopus Energy on their agile tariff. Charge my Model 3 for around 6pkwh. Have charged for a cost as low as .3 of a penny on this tariff once 😎
I drive a new Ecosport with 2670 on the Clock, I am an Old Man and drive like one. I rarely go more than 50 MPH on normal roads and 60 - 70 on a Motorway. Other cars race by me to get to a Roundabout or Traffic Lights but we normally leave these together. They leave the Roundabout or Traffic Lights quicker than I do but I generally catch them up at the next, I am, in fact, the ‘Boy Racers worst nightmare, apart from a Caravan? My car is an Automatic and I use the Cruise Control at every sensible opportunity. I leave my MPG set on its original setting and I achieve 35 MPG.
I have put a Deposit on an MG ZS EV which I will get around the end of February next and I can’t wait.
I know my Preamble was long and boring but I have been driving for over 60 Years and I am almost too late to Enter the Future of Motoring, In 25 Years Petrol and Diesel Vehicles will be on the way out and in 50 Years a memory.
You need to add in the depreciation costs for both cars as that is the biggest factor. A Leaf loses around 50 to 60%% of it's value within 3 years!
So how do you account for them now selling for more than we paid for them at three years old.
Used EVs are fetching more now than they were one or two years ago, despite being older with more miles on the clock. Try buying one, then you’ll get a better idea of the EV market.
@@dougowt I just did! That's why I know that Leaf depreciation is 60% after 3 years!!!
@@dougowt this won't last its due to demand and supply and new EV prices rising . True depreciation isn't know but I expect it to be the same as fossil fuels within 5 years , maybe more due to car manufacturers claiming to be able to makes EVs for same price as petrol by 2025
Paul Houghton Yes it is down to supply and demand. Personally I’ll be surprised if manufacturers will be matching demand in only 5 years. And once the general population get to realise the cost savings and driving experience, then values of ICE’d vehicles will plummet. The second hand market will have an even greater supply v demand gap in 5 years.
Slightly off topic. I drive a 9 year old Qashqai and had to use a brand new VW Golf 18 months ago for 6 weeks, both ICEs (it was a hire car supplied by my insurance company). It was a nice enough car, but getting back to what you are used to is a joy, even if it is an ICE with 60,000 miles on the clock after putting 700 miles on a shiny new car that was delivered with 100 miles on the clock.
I'm changing my old 20mpg hatch for something that my 17 year old son can drive in the new year. After watching your channel for the last year or so I'm convinced that a s/h Leaf is the answer - the only stumbling block is insurance. Quotes for the Leaf are twice the price of a Polo/Golf and completely wipe out the savings in running costs. I will shop around further when the time comes but I sincerely hoped that I had bought my last petrol powered car.
Simon Dykes fantastic news. Glad I could help. I think the problem with insurance for young people and new drivers is the extra power EVs have. Personally I didn’t see a difference in insurance costs but I’m old and have been driving since 17. I do hear a lot of people complain about the extra. I hope you can find a good compromise 👍
This is my third year of owning my 30kw Leaf and I plan on keeping it 10 years. Excellent Video.
You are absolutely right It's impossible to put a price on the better driving experience of an EV. (You need to consider the cost of paracetamol needed after a long journey driving an ICE car!)
This discussion is completely one sided, and simply unfair.
You are comparing cars in different categories, so obviously the Nissan Leaf is better to drive since it belong to the higher category.
Difference in price between the cars make up for the savings in fuel. Toyota Aygo costs 10,495€ and a Nissan Leaf starts at 32,400€.
Where are the savings? I don't see any.
Paulo Moniz I didn’t understand his comment that “the savings over 10 years was equal to the price of the Aygo therefore the Leaf was cheaper”. Total non sequiteur. As you point out it’s the difference in capital invested that is the factor to consider
Im an EV fan but still need some balance
New prices
Aygo £15,000
Leaf £33,000
You make some good points. Up here in Norway, the economics of it all is even more sensible. Trading in my 2013 Peugeot for an Ioniq a few weeks back, the amount of money I save on fuel and the small loan I had on the Pug is enough to pay the loan cost and fuel cost of the Ioniq. With service and repair costs being the actual savings in my personal economy.
As for the driving experience, it is actually something of a letdown driving the fossil car we still have in our household. As that car is a Mercedes, those who haven't driven EVs yet can draw some conclusions from that little tidbit.
I went EV due to the economy of it, but a few weeks in it is the driving experience that makes me conclude that EVs is the future, and that fossil cars deserves to go from being cars to becoming fossils.
That is exactly why I got my Chevy bolt for as I only drive less than 7 miles a day for work and only about maybe 20 miles or so for leisure activities. My wife is always upset that I could drive my ice car and only spend about $40 a month in gas while since I’ve gotten the bolt I’ve only spent about $12 in electricity over the entire month. So I’m definitely one fit it into going electric
Totally enjoying these videos. I'd like to see an adversarial opinion ie somebody who has a need for something that the 24 kwh Leaf couldn't cover. I think the greater majority of folks could live with the 24 kwh Leaf. My brother in law has a 55 mile commute. Leaf wouldn't work. He bought a Kona. 52000 Canadian dollars. That's a lot for us regular folks. I think he could have arranged for a level 2 charge at his place of work if he'd pursued it.
good video, personaly i have had my leaf for a month now, in my old passat (2007, b6) i was putting some 50 to 75 pounds a month in it, my leaf ... total 15 pounds, similar milage and useage
You can get a nearly new 2019 69 reg Aygo for £7k that's £700 a year or just £58 a month if you want to keep it for 10 years. Aygo comes with 5 years warranty and service costs less than £100 every 12k miles. Full tank of fuel costs £35 and it gives you 350-400 miles range real life depending on how many motorway miles you do. Now, let's calculate the cost of financing/servicing a Nissan Leaf, just curious to know.
Sorry this makes no sense but if we just go on purchase price Nissan Leaf is 28k after grants and a Automatic Aygo is under 13k, so basically what ever you saving in fuel does not even come close? Which ever way you look at it 5 or 10 years unless you doing lots of miles it’s still cheaper to get a petrol car.
So £8500 ‘saving’ plus £9000 for the Argo, that’s £17,500.
That pales into insignificance compared with the £30,000 Leaf.
Unfortunately EVs are still too expensive. Once they’re lower, I’ll switch.
You could save even more money if you charged using solar and a Zappi charger.
Dave The fab which costs how much to install?
6K for my solar , but electricity has gone up 30% since it was fitted 4 years ago. Bought my Leaf to use my summer surplus power.
I drive a 20 year old Peugeot 106 diesel. It does 80mpg, and cost me £500 to buy. I travel 110 miles round trip to work and back and as much as I would LOVE an EV there is no way I can justify the initial cost, and until the range is sorted out it's a no-no anyway from what I have seen......great video though.
As far as fuel goes i know i was using $250-$300 each month with gas, now with my Leaf i still drive same distance but electric use is $50-$55 a month...so been a big change for me. I have thought about if i need to bring my car in for repairs like you did if i could get an ev, if not will have to remember to stop at the rest stops..i mean gas stations :)
Totally agree with you but the iceing on the cake is if you are using solar to charge it as I do and on bad days my 5p a Kw Octopus Energy after midnight EV tariff then its a no brainer // As regards noise I don't even turn the radio on to spoiler the silence of motion
Fully agree with most of what you said. Great video mate 😊
While I can only offer information for the U.S., the math does not support a mad rush to switch to EV's...at least not here in the States. Studies and cost analyses have shown that you only save $600-800 A YEAR for the inconveniences of having a car with slow recharge times, limited ranges and battery-crippling capacity in cold climates.Then there is the issue of the high upfront purchase price, many times upwards to 100% more than a comparably-sized and featured car. And let's not forget the 'invisible' white elephant that EV fans HATE to talk about - replacing the battery skate after 10 years; with a price between $8000-$12000. Once you factor that in, the savings paradigm goes right out the window.
jaro essa I agree that the states aren’t as forward thinking as other places in the world so gas is cheaper and subsidies less but some of your concerns are now outdated. Have a look at data on modern batteries. They won’t be needing replacing after 10 years 😁👍
@@EVOpinion well we have to take that on trust
Good video. Also worth adding that although the issue battery degradation seems exaggerated and out of date these days, even if it does happen, the vehicle is still usable. It just needs charging more often! A vehicle that can manage 40 miles still probably meets 90% of a user's driving needs on a single charge. Also note that rapid charging infrastructure will be utterly transformed in 10 years time - so it would be even less of a problem by then.
Sure you have, but have you considered Octopus Go? I am on it and really enjoy having 5p/kWh at night.
Plus, even at peak rate, less than 14p/kWh. May really help rack up those savings
What about mentioning the cost of having to take time off work to take my wife's Volvo XC90 for service and repairs. Twice in for repairs in the first 2 years of ownership. Now have a recall on a faulty part so it has to go in again! Approximately $250 per service every 6 months as well. Plus it is premium fuel at $1.35 per litre (Yes I know we have it cheap in Canada) Over the past 2 years the volvo has cost $6200 all in and my tesla has cost $600 all in. You just can't beat an EV. I am keen to get my wife a tesla model Y as I honestly think you will be hard pressed to even GIVE your ice vehicle away in 5 years. No-one will want them, they will be too expensive to run, with all the service and repairs in comparison to an EV. Also I even think gas prices are going to be coming down in the next 3 years as less and less people will need it and as demand drops so will cost. Even with cheaper gas it will not be affordable compared to an EV. Ford might survive with their recent investment into Rivian, but I think GM and Chrysler will be bankrupt within 5 years. Time to move our your stock in those companies and invest in sustainable resources. Great video, Ryan. Keep them coming
David Walley me thinks we are on the same thought pattern exactly.
David Walley that’s an interesting point. The world works on supply and demand. Will petrol and diesel hang on for a few more years as the price falls?
@@EVOpinion I'm sure petrol and diesel will be available for years to come but probably at less and less petrol stations, ready for "vintage" cars that run on old liquid fuels
Wow...and pardon my bluntness, but...you're getting hosed on your service charges. I have my car serviced every 6 months, at a certified automotive service center, and I only pay $52 A YEAR!! Might be time for you to start changing the oil and filters yourself every 6 months with rip-off prices like that.
My 2012 leaf 7 years old 45,000 miles and just dropped a battery bar now it has 8 left.
Nice shot of St Catherine's chapel and the fleet 😊 I currently drive a mini cooper as so love the fun drive. I'm going to see the new mini electric in a couple of weeks time. I very nearly pressed the pre-order button for it. What stopped me was range. My parent's live 166 miles away ( not far from the Fleet!) and really I'd like a car to be able to do that trip in one go as I don't have access to other cars for longer trips. I am sure the mini-se won't which is a shame it'd be fine for my daily commute however.
I drive a diesel Eos , I wish they had made this model as electric
I pay 5ppKw charging from 0030 to 0430 using Octopus so our savings using the Zoe Q90 will be huge !. But like most others the sheer enjoyment of driving electric over ice cars is wonderful...my other car is a TT roadster, auto !
I have a 24kwh Leaf, but wow that new non American 2020 Toyota Yaris hybrid will be an amazing car some claim up to 80mpg and will be an amazing price along with tech to the max and even will come in AWD.
Sir, I could not agree more with what you are saying! EVs rule all the way! Personally, I am one full year into owning a 2019 Chevrolet Bolt and it has been one of the most wonderful experiences in my whole life!
First, it just does not break down. Having far less moving parts in an EV means a far smaller probability of malfunction. During the year just passed, my Bolt had no failures whatsoever. Zip. It just keeps going and going. This means fewer visits to your mechanics and spending way less time and money.
Second, what you did not include in your calculations is maintenance costs that can be pretty significant. Oil, filters, sparks, belts, brake pads, exhaust gimmicks... you name it! An EV simply does not have any of that... except brake pads that you use very seldom - 99% of the time, I use the regenerative braking feature that slows down and stops my Bolt without any interference from the brakes while pumping energy back into the battery.
Third, the ride quality that you mentioned. With practically no noise and vibration, with its non-existent gearbox and 200 hp of instant torque, my Bolt EV is a silent fighter jet. Depending on what you want from it, it can gently hover over the road or throw you back in your seat. All you have to do is slightly touch the accelerator pedal.
This is to say nothing about the environmental footprint. Every once in a while, I receive an email from GM showing how much gas I DID NOT burn, how much oil I DID NOT use, how much CO2 I DID NOT emit, and how much brake dust I DID NOT throw in the air we all breathe. I don't know about you but it makes me feel better.
EVs are the future and there is no way around it.
Some good interesting points and fair comparison
However, then it just gets silly and it spoils it
You talk about being sick of going to the petrol station ⛽️
You did 600 miles in all the time you had the Aygo
My diesel does 700 miles to a single tank
Taking the fact that an Aygo is much smaller, surely it could manage 300 miles to a tank at least - so that’s maximum 2 trips to a petrol station in the few weeks you had it
What were you doing - sticking £5 in at a time ?
Love your channel, but keep it real for us ICE people who are looking to learn from you regarding EVs
Thanks 👍🏼
You can get 500 miles out of an Aygo (I have it's brother a C1) without too much trouble. If I drive it more enthusiastically I get more like 400 miles. He got very similar to that. So yes one fill-up when he got it and then probably on day 12. I'm pretty sure he visited a supermarket in that time that had a petrol station attached.
Great video, I am still dithering about going electric as there are few public charging points in the area where I live. It would be great to see more public chargers and less confusion about payment methods etc, if they all accepted contactless payments I am sure that would increase adoption of EVs.
I'm on the Octopus Go tariff and charge up for 4.72 pence per kWh. I'm currently averaging 5 miles per kWh. Less than a penny per mile on fuel. I think only cyclists can beat that!
Yes, not sure why he’s on such an expensive tariff
I get about 50-60 miles per KWh out of my electric bike.
I am getting rid of my hybrid and the only car I will replace my 10 year old Prius is with is an EV. NO OTHER vehicle will ever be purchased that runs of a combustible fuel ever again. I stopped at a petrol station after a fantastic meal and almost lost my lunch from the fumes. I won't miss going for oil changes, petrol or wondering how much something will cost me if anything goes wrong. My peace of mind alone will make owning an EV worth it and the benefit of not exposing myself or anyone else to those nasty smelly dangerous chemicals will be something I will be happen to contribute towards.
Interesting as ever but these kinds of comparisons are always fraught with difficulty. Firstly we end up comparing apples with oranges so to speak, secondly it is almost impossible to account for all costs as there are so many variables and usage patterns. This is just my opinion of course but my starting point would be to compare cars in the same size category, so either a Leaf equivalent ICE vehicle or an Aygo equivalent EV. Not easily done at the moment.
He did say at the beginning that it was his own personal experience he was comparing.
I was wondering if the insurance companies ever thought of compensating you for the extra money you spent on petrol you used. Could you rent for Just EV instead?
You could probably claim for the additional cost you incurred for fuel as an out-of-pocket expense as a result purely as a result of the accident.
The Aygo/Leaf comparison is a tad biased towards the Toyota, and many EV owners will get off peak electricity deals. Mine is a standard 8p /kWh so my 2p/mile cost would give a 12k mile cost of £240, or £1080 pa saving, 10 years being £10,800...just another data point ..
What was the cost of your Leaf?
I drive an aygo would love an electric version. Looked at the zoe and it's 23k with savings I'd still be better in a aygo. Kinda wish they were cheaper.
Eh? Did the Leaf cost the same as the Aygo? What about depreciation? Over 10 years & 120k miles, perhaps those cars would both be worth almost nothing.....so the Leaf cost a lot more overall, right?
I love our KonaEV for the driving experience and home cheap charging (Octopus Go tariff!), but I would struggle to stretch those savings out compared with a small cheap ICE car!
Don't forget EV's have free road tax too so that's another saving. And the fact that they emit zero emissions has got to be one of the most important benefits they just make sense.
I can confirm your calculations after one year with the same model leaf. Sure it depends on the cost of the electric power which in Germany is about 0,30€ /kWh. To be fair the only downside is, that you have to substract your heat energy from the range as colder it gets outside.
(depending at which cabin temperature you feel comfortable)
On the other hand an EV is ready to use from the first meter and no motor has to be warmed up until it reaches his working condition and fuel consumption as promised in the technical facts.
Depending on your daily trip to work not a less amount of the trip, is over the average fuel consumption which also result in unwanted exhausts.
It makes a big difference especially on short trips to the next shopping center if I use our EV or the Ice car which motor temperature gauge laughing at me then while the average fuel consumption meter tells me stories about 11l / 100km
matneu27 Well, did the EV cost more to buy than a small gasoline car? You have to include total cost otherwise it's false economy.
@@apangurra2775 at least the task of buying a car is a big loss in every case. I bought my EV used, but I bet that the EVs will reach the same level. At least for me it was the decision to drive electric and not to buy another dinosaur fuel burner.
@@matneu27 Still burning other fuels unless you went solar/wind.
I'm not embarrassed to admit I like helping save the planet
You say you keep your cars for 10 years. Why? I would suggest that a common ICE car after 120,000 miles is "clapped out", After 10 years the ICE has lost performance, has developed leaks of oil and/or coolant. various parts such as alternators, starter motors and exhaust system are need of replacement, or have been replaced.
in other words after !0 years, 120,000 miles an ICE typically is uneconomical to repair.
An EV on the other hand should never lose performance. The electric motor either works or it doesn't. The inverter either works or it doesn't. The only thing in the drive train that deteriorates, wears, is the battery and that only affects range.
I expect my Kona 64 kWh EV to last 20 years. I expect that I may only have 50% range left, or 32 kWh. That is still usable, particularly considering I will be 81 by then. It is the last car I will buy. Will I last another 20 years as a driver or will I be "clapped out" first!.
I will own the Kona outright before I retire in 5.5 years. I am investing in it when I have the earning capacity. Yes there will be suspension parts that will wear and need replacing but all cars do that. Replacing CV joints, ball joints or shock absorbers is not a big task.
I also expect battery refurbishment businesses will spring up offering economical refurbished battery packs in 10 years time. If battery technology ever gets down to US$50 per kWh replacing a battery pack will become a non event. Particularly if only the dud cells were replaced.
Keep your Leaf for 15 years.
Robyn Edwards counterpoint- I drive a 32 year old truck and a 42 year old motorcycle. ICE cars can last too!. There is more built-in obsolescence in an EV than in just the battery - the heavy dependency on the computer management systems puts them at risk. Ever tried to get parts for a 10 year old PC?
Really enjoyed this one. At the start let me say, I AM AN EV FAN! :-)
I sold my 3 year old diesel SUV at the beginning of the year and considered an EV, what I really want ultimately.
The prices at the time for EV were still too high - the base Zoe here in Ireland is just shy of €26, 000 after the grant that's given here. I need a small car that will happily cruise the motoway frequently and reasonably quickly; I sit on said motorway and 'B' roads for 1 to 2 hours and on the motorway at 120/130 kilometres per hour.
Due to cost I purchased a new Aygo in March of this year; it has a little more power than last years - the one I test drove in fact - and has revised suspension, steering and most significantly vastly improved sound proofing. Compared with one I tested its a refined cruiser and when accelerating actually sounds a 'bit' sporty, unlike the earlier version. Toyota have finally got it right.
Not as quiet as the new Leaf my friend has, or any other EV, but it's now pretty good, a pleasant surprise.
On the motorway run the biggest surprise has been economy; 60+ MILES per gallon and often heading towards 70 around town and country roads.
The gear change is also nice, different again to last years version.
On the road price was just under €16500. (Cars do cost more over here compared to UK)
It's in for its first service this week, 15000km (faultless) on the clock in the 7 months I've had it, no issues to report. Typucal Toyota I guess.
As for servicing costs the first 3 services are included, so no costs there.
Its a superb little car that is great fun to drive, is very go-kart like and well put together. I really enjoy it and no one is more surprised than I am.
I live in rural Ireland and chargers are not that numerous and often arent working, just the electricity company (ESB) providing them for now, Tesla excepted of course.
Home charger would be all I need for the local trips but at the moment - for the reasons outlined above - an EV is not possible for me.
Having said all that....my next car WILL be an EV, regrettably not just yet.
Hi, you said something that interested me.. you said your leaf has all of it's bars, (12) and it's a 24kwh battery, and you get a range of 70 miles... I've only had my 2013 Leaf since mid August, this year, it has a range ( on the GOM ) of 110 k ( 70 miles) , but it has only 9 bars. Maybe I don't understand, or I missed something. If I paid over $10,000 dollars I could get a new battery, and have 12 bars... but if I did that, would I still only get 70 miles? I might just keep this car for another 10 years to see how it goes, with the original battery. Thanks for your thought provoking video.
ok regarding replies if you want a direct comparison for the aygo how about the vw up top spec petrol up 13 thousand 400 hundred miles on full tank, electric up 20 thousand pounds 100 miles on a charge if your lucky 7 thousand difference when car dealers start producing electric cars at the same price as there petrol counterparts and with the same range i might buy one .
ok its fine to say the car costs less to run, the thing you didnt mention a new leaf will cost 30 thousand the aygo 13 £17.000 difference so after ten years your still out of pocket with a electric car.
You would more than likely buy a Zoe or similar as it is a more comparable car to the Aygo. In this case, your running costs would be even better. You seem to forget the servicing costs of an ice vehicle - cambelts, clutches, dual mass flywheels, exhausts, gearbox issues, injectors, oil changes, x4 more regular brake maintenance. This all gets very costly over 10 years.
Agree the price difference, but these are not comparable cars. A Leaf is a much bigger car, more comparable to a Ford Focus in terms of its size and with a much higher level of performance. Nevertheless, I agree prices are way too high. Government needs to intervene by increasing taxes on new fossil cars and reducing them on EV's. This would persuade more people to demand EV's and manufacturers would have to address that demand. Once production levels of EV's outstrip fossil production cost savings the change would be complete.
Something I’ve been thinking about is , do I need to think differently about how I buy my next car if it’s going to be electric. Currently I buy my cars using PCP , I pay small deposit then monthly for a couple of years then I chop it in for the next new car before I get any significant bills , it’s peace of mind motoring . The difference with an electric car is there aren’t any significant bills , hardly any wear and tear means the car will be ultra reliable for a lot longer than a couple of years , maybe I’ll be looking having the car for double or triple what I’m used to . Also everything I’m hearing about the way electric cars are going to designed suggests that facelifts will be a thing of the past too and over the air system updates like on an iPhone will be the new “facelift “ . Everything is pointing to me owning my electric car a lot longer which will mean my buying platform will be out of date . Will there be a new buying platform I wonder ?
nissan leafs are getting written off every day due to cost of electronic repairs, even if we forget the battery, the electronics are so complicated with power inverters and control systems that owning an ageing ev will be a very risky proposition. Dealers are charging silly prices just to diagnose these vehicles, so I wouldn't put an EV into a trouble free long lasting category. Have a check at some of the prices that tesla would have charged if out of warranty, frightening.
Fast chargers are nearer 30p per mile, so savings on longer runs requiring a fast charge are a lot less. And EV cars cost more in the first place. I’m not so sure that making savings is the biggest benefit of EVs. To me it is the driving experience that is the clincher.
Also if you was on the special EV tariffs such as Octopus Go you will only be paying 5p per Kw for hours at night making it even cheaper
I fancy changing to EV but I find the diferent methods of charging away from home totally confusing. Do you have to be signed up have a account, have a app or a card it just goes on and on even the different map apps are confusing. Any chance of a basic explanation to all the different methods in a way anyone can understand please.
Hi David. I had the same worries before I bought my Ioniq last year. My advice would be to visit zap-map.com and abetterrouteplanner.com and get familiar with how they work before you buy an EV. Zap-Map (which is also available as an app on your phone) allows you to filter the networks, and Instavolt, Engenie and Shell have contactless payments so no subscriptions, apps or RFID cards. A Better Route Planner allows you to plan a road trip and shows you how far you can go before you need to charge and where you can charge up (at the above mentioned networks). Oh, and get the Pod Point app because it allows you to charge for free at car parks and supermarkets. Mostly though, you'll end up charging at home overnight. (No standing with a nozzle in your hand in the freezing cold in winter.)
Petrol/diesel prices may increase more than electric not to mention cities charging or banning ice cars in the future makes electric cars a better choice if range and charging suit the daily commute
Given time the infrastructure and range will improve
8:57 :-D I got Aygo.
Ryan, seriously considering to buy my first EV, having watched many of your videos and others. With regard to the 30kwh Nissan Leaf, is a 3kw charging sufficient given that we only do approx 150 miles a week, in and around Dorset, or should I consider 6kw charging?
regards Mike
very informative:))
would love a ev but not able to charge at home stops me .as i would have to travel 10 miles to nearest charger ,also would i be right in thinking only rapid charging the battery is not good for it
Kev Jones the odd rapid charge seems to do it good but I don’t think solely rapid charging would be good
Hi just a point to note. I as yourself own a leaf I do approximately 12 to 13 thousand miles per year and my car is a 24kwh same as yours. My leaf has done 60k miles 60425 to be exact. I have lost one capacity bar and leaf spy indicates 82.14% state of health. I am not as confident as yourself to get to the ten year point with a usable range on my car. I’m not being negative I’m just not as confident as you. I still love my cheap to own electric car though.🤓
I just love electronic cars and that is the way we all need to go but I’m concerned,what happens when the battery is dead,how do they get rid of it?what I’m saying does the battery cause more pollution when the dispose of it ?
Nora Halkefs I am no expert but I do know that when a battery is no good from a car they get recycled into home storage batteries. They are also made up of lots of cells. Those individual cells can be replaced so just because one part of the battery fails doesn’t mean the whole lot needs scrapping. I think we need to look at the overall effect of building, running and scrapping a engine against a battery and I don’t know the answer but suspect a battery is better 😁
Thank you for the valuable information.
Batteries can be recycled for their valuable elements. It isn't economical at the moment because there aren't that many worn out batteries (from EV's or home storage). However, in 10 years time when older EV's come to the end of their life, I can see a whole new industry starting up in battery recycling.
This does not take into consideration higher new EV price. Would you try to get a similar comparison of brand new Hyundai Kona petrol vs brand new Kona electric? Total cost of ownership,
Problem is good used cars exist for only a few thousand pounds. You'd be long dead before you recoup the lower running costs. As more people go electric you can be sure the price of electric will go up and the novelty of free charging will be gone.
Not here for me. I can save $2,000/year in petrol but the car costs $20,000 more.
PS I love EVs and hate combustion engines particularly diesels as they stink but we need to be subjective
Mark Williams Then where does this 20% reduced power BS come from?!
yes electric is cheaper. but the cost of having driveway or garage is more than the price of tesla. so ice is somewhat cheaper for those who is not fortunate enough to have driveway or garage
Shows how some of the prices from ecotricity and instavolt make. Ev charging more expensive than petrol and why it's best to charge at home wherever possible
domhnall dods instavolt is 35pkwh. So 40kwh leaf to full is £14, to do 150 miles. Say a petrol can do 600 miles, or 4 charges that £56. You can’t get 55l of petrol these days for £56 now can you :)
@@petercowdell1328 hmmm i don't get 150 miles. Yesterday I did Edinburgh to Aberdeen, 130 ish miles. Left at 100%, got to Dundee (63 miles) at 40%left. Recharged to 80% at 36p per kwh and reached Aberdeen (roughly another 65 miles) only 20% left. In a petrol car I'd have done it 40 minutes quicker too as I'd have done the trip without stopping.
Avoid ecotricity, yes it is often cheaper to buy Petrol than Elec. ABC= always be charging, ABCAH= always be charging at home.
@@johndoyle4723 so few ecotricity units around that I've only ever used them once
Hi 👋🏾
I live outside a public charger 🔌
I’m buying a electric ⚡️ mini
Will I be ok ?
I do 80 miles per day
I think the Minis range might be an issue. Have you considered the new Zoe?
If I charge daily.... is this ok?
Electric's cheaper except for a certain group. That is people who have very cheap cars and drive very few miles. My 15 year old Fabia cost me £500 pounds and eleven pence a mile to run in fuel. As I only drive about 4,000 miles a year that gives me 4,000 times seven pence a year in savings if I got say a Zoe. At £280 pounds a year it would take me twenty years to be ahead of the deal. As I actually really want a Zoe I keep doing the sums to try and make it work but as they seem to have completely stopped depreciating in the last two years I don't seem to be getting any closer. For just about anyone else just go out and do it. It'll make you happy, save you money and maybe leave a habitable planet for your grandkids :)
What do you think of Nissan's new concept release of the Ariya EV?
Michael concept you say... ;)
I've been working on lithium powered EVs since 2011
Mark Williams you seem to be very ignorant of the facts re EV driving/ownership. Forgive me for not believing you.
No doubt there are fuel cost savings to be had under the right circumstances, but the notion that EVs are cheaper to service then ICE equivalents simply isn’t true
It should be true as less moving parts etc, but if like me you keep the servicing at a main dealer, they charge the same for an EV as they do for the equivalent ICE car
It’s important we don’t mislead potential EV purchasers with this somewhat false declaration of cheap motoring
It is true. Toyota Prius - £220. Hyundai Ioniq - £79.
If I had no place at home to charge I would not want an electric car.
I have no place to charge I home. I use tesla supertchargers as they are currently free. I use polar plus at £7.85 per month, and pod point pay as you go. Polar is the cheapest pay service 12p kw at fast chargers, 15p at Rapids. So first month of use I've paid £10 for 1300 miles. Will cost more after 6 months when my free supercharging runs out. Main point is I can get by without charging at home. I was quoted a whopping £3.5k to have new fuse box and cabling installed. So not worth the money as thats 3 or more years of public charge fees and then I still have to pay the electric.
@@Walterp60 Good for you. It would not work out for me. I have a supercharger about 10 miles round trip from me but don't feel like spending an hour a day or more charging and waiting in the parking lot. Perhaps people in an urban setting can make it work though.
Just because you have all the bars, doesn't mean you have a healthy battery! My old phone was fine, but it just couldn't hold a charge anymore! For your 12k miles a year you must be charging your car at 170 times a year, so I wonder how many cycles it has left in it? It will be great if you keep the Leaf for another 5 years - yours could be the only channel to really stress test an EV. I'm thinking it'll get to a point where it falls off a cliff, and will only charge to about 30% capacity one day. Most EV drivers I watch on UA-cam always drive on motorways at 50mph etc, is it possible to do a range test at 70 to 80 mph?
The U.K. SPEED LIMIT IS 70 mph.
see I am still on the fence, I need a new car next year, I have been driving since 2016 and ended up with a 2007 honda civic 2.2 diesel. I got the car when it had 125k on the clock and from me getting it till now it is on 138k so yeh you can tell I do not really drive far.
The only electric car I would want as of now is the BMW i3 I just do not like the leaf or zoe, I was thinking of finance really as I can not afford to buy a car outright, it would be used and I can get the spec I want for around £265 a month pretty sure id be getting a REX version just incase I do need to travel further and for piece of mind and they are the 2016/66 models
but my issue is public charging my area is beyond bad really and I always look at the few charging spaces at aldi etc and they are nearly always iced
also the cost, of the car itself basically I would be getting my next car on PCP but I would be handing it back instead of paying the final big chunk of money then I can get another car but for the same price as this per month I could get a new shape A-class with 7k on the clock or a good spec allure 3008
these are the 3 cars really I keep looking at and have been doing for AGES
so I am trying to weigh everything up seeing what is best and how much BANG I get for my BUCK, I know yeh the I3 is better for the environment but for me and most people that is not the main issue specially when you have limited money and want the best for that money. This is one of the reasons why its slow getting people in the UK to get a electric car...you get more for you`re money with a petrol car still...and yeh the charging up.
Home charging wise I live with my family...wont be changing at all in the near future so if I got the I3 id have to put up with a normal wall socket to charge though I would end up with a wall charger I think, we have a drive but the caravans on it though I could pull the car onto the grass at the side....just no drop curb on that part of the path....see im thinking about tyres as they are horridly expensive on the I3 to replace...current tyres for my car £50 fitted
I live in the Doncaster area and its pretty thin pickings for public charging stations more so in my part of the area, hell our main shopping centre frenchgate has a multi story carpark as well as parking all on the roof has ZERO charging stations for electric cars :/
it would help if I could test drive a I3 but there is nowhere near me I can do that really.
I have been debating for well over a year haha...I only put £30 a month in diesel
marklola12 I think your comment just about sums up most people’s thinking. I would say don’t worry about local charging as you only ever charge at home, even with a three pinned plug. Do the sums and see if it works. If not wait a year and try again. At some point it will but don’t leave yourself out of pocket. Sometimes it’s cheaper to fuel the car you own than buy a EV on finance!
Hello from Seattle, USA, I visited Doncaster a few years ago and enjoyed my stay very much. I took a train from Cardiff to Doncaster spending a week with relatives there. We went on day adventures to Whitby and York across the Yorkshire Dales. We had lunch at The Barrel Inn on Sir Williams Road in the Peak District. They cooked me Yorkshire Pudding. I had a great time. I was impressed by your train service. In Seattle, we have ONE passenger train to Los Angeles a day and ONE passenger train to Chicago a day. You have passenger trains leaving for Kings Cross, London every 30 minutes on week days. That is amazing to me.
After 40 years of driving petrol cars I now drive a 14 kwh battery EV with range extender. I charge at home and pay $20 extra a month in electricity plus $100 a year in petrol. My three old car is now worth 15000 pounds ($20000). Stats so far are... Total miles: 27721 Pure EV miles: 24070 Percent EV: 86.9 mpgE: 87.3 mpg: 312 Average miles per year: 9000. Average miles per day: 24 Granted its range extender petrol engine might not reach 30000 miles on it in my lifetime. (at 1000 miles a year times 30 years if I am lucky). Gets 60 miles of EV range in the summer, 50 miles of EV range in the winter.
So, what's different now?.......... Is it, a better calculator?
Thanks, very interesting, but....
Petrol prices and electricity prices are manipulated by UK Gov. Elec has reduced Vat and no fuel Excise duty, wait until UK Gov loses too much revenue, then things may change.
It wi however be a nightmare for the Gov to regulate, how to differentiate between domestic use of elec, and car fuel use, just get the extension lead from your domestic socket, job done.
You make very valid points about driving experience, and avoiding hassle of filling stations, provided you charge at home.
Thanks for the video.
For now we don't know much but mazda gonna laught a mx-30 with a 35.5kw..
you forgot the extortionate annual petrol price rises when calculating your 10 year costs...
Fuel prices will go lower in the future as less demand. Always supply vs demand economics.
Whilst I have no doubt that the driving experience of an electric car is better I tend to do longer trips and the hassle of having to stop to recharge would be unworkable. I did a road trip through France just this year. Did I see many recharging points? No. Where there any convenient charging places at the hotels and airbnb we stayed at ? No. Trying this trip in an electric car would have been awkward without planning carefully so I am sure things will get there but not for some years yet. I will leave it for others to sort the problems out. Also it appears that nissan leaf have severe battery problems as their batteries are not adequately cooled in hot climates leading to early battery failure something nissan seem unwilling to accept as their fault.
If you drive more than 2 hours without stopping, it's dangerous for you, for your passengers, and for other road users. You can use these stoppages to charge an EV.
Stop, revive, and survive.
I was just wondering if you did your road trip without planning where you were going? I have done road trips with ICE's in the past and with an EV now, and have found no difference. You still have to have comfort breaks and stop for fuel. EV drivers can use abetterrouteplanner.com to show them the best route to their destination, and combine the refuelling stop with a comfort break.
Man this is not correct. This is not appropriate. Man I have a Toyota aygo 1.0 2008 and in average I am spending. 0.075 to 0.085 pences per mile or 4.5 to 5.1 to 5.3 litres per khm so on average something around 8 to 8.5 pences per mile.
Taxing an EV is nil as long as you don't go over £40k, if you want an auto ice car then that's another grand upwards, long term far more to go wrong with an ice car. I'm on the long waiting list for a Kona EV, can't wait .
How long will zero tax on EVs last ? The government needs is money some how you have 5 years of this tops .
@@PabloTBrave I would guess that when EV sales pass ICE sales then the government will start to tax EV's to recover lost revenue from road tax and fuel tax. I expect road tax to be higher than it is for ICE cars at the moment because I don't buy petrol or diesel. I'm just enjoying the free ride while it lasts. :)
@@alaneasthope2357without a doubt. rumours of scrapping road tax for all and the introduction of price per mile for all little box in the car that kind of thing. EVs don't polute but they cause congestion damage roads and run people of just like other vehicles.
If like myself you have an EV & no home charging due to no off street parking or garage the costs could ramp up some what. Public charging in Fife at the moment is free but they are soon to start applying a fee. If its more than a few pence over a standard home tariff I'm way out of pocket and the EV will have to go. Not much incentive for 20-30% of people in the UK with no home charging to go EV. That has to change if the government push forward with there green policies, but I guess it wont!....always after our hard earned money and the people will never win.
the elephant in the room is if you were paying the same amount of tax as a petrol car driver on their petrol you would find out that the petrol car would be cheaper in the long run..in the not to distant future you will find the government will put huge taxes on electric car to make up for the money lost on petrol cars which will run into billions. having said that im waiting for the price of electric cars to come down so I can afford one
Maybe the Chancellor will do the sums in due course. After all, excise duty in the UK is just under 58p/l for all road fuel, plus 20% VAT on top of the total commercial price+excise duty, whereas the VAT rate on domestic electricity is only 5% at present. They won’t like the loss of tax revenue if fuel oil becomes less popular.
Someone just bought back an Kia e niro cost too much money compared to a diesel over all u need to drive lots of miles to get ya money back they cost too much new
You will find plenty of willing buyers. It's a great car. The big problem is that all legacy manufacturers have a huge vested interest in keeping prices of EV's high so you will buy their very profitable fossil gobblers. In the meantime we continue to pollute. It's not the fault of the public that we are being overcharged. Blame governments for allowing legacy manufacturers to dictate what we buy by having unnecessarily high prices for EV's.
Where are your charging loses u lose about 10% from heat/resistance if not more also u don't have full power when your battery is low u can't compare apples to apples
Mark Williams get your facts right or don’t bother commenting. An EV is massively more efficient than an ICE powered vehicle. Spend £100 on fuel and watch over £70 get wasted on heat and friction. That’s without taking into account that the brakes are turning more energy into heat and wearing the brakes out at the same time. When does you ICE make its own fuel?
@Richard Wood The charging losses are included in the cost of charging the car. Just like the £70+ you lose in every £100 turning petrol/diesel into power with an ice. Maybe we should give that a mention too.
El car yes is cheaper, then other's, if! charged at home, one.
Cecondly, maintenance, is, quite less cost.
I don't charge at home and make massive savings.
Now try very cold areas of the world where you could lose 40-50% of your charge in winter months
Erm u think a lithium ion battery will last 10 years without any battery conditioning erm yer ok the Nissan leaf doest have any battery cooling
this is the worst comparison ever....
1. you look only at people who literally do not drive their cars.
2. for someone like me who does 120 miles per day and then takes long journeys over weekends your pathetic leaf or majority of the cars are worthless
3. you deliberately for some reason do not talk about public charging costs and this is where your dishonesty starts.
most public charging stations are 39p per kw that equal or more than what you pay for petrol
you have to sit for an hour (if not more when you are waiting for someone) to charge your car
you cannot guarantee that free charging or charging at work will be available since more people are conned into EV
This opinion really sucks!