He's trying to execute that concept for a flow bench first, but seems he wants to execute the same concept down the line for a land speed record bike that this engine will be fitted to.
You are watching a guy glue himself back together. I watch him and recognise the struggle that people like myself have with hyper focus, and how when we get stressed or over stimulated, trying to explain even simple things, turns into a battle in your mind.
This is turning into the most Rube Goldberg supercharging setup I have ever heard of. All because you can't find a compressor suited for such a low flow rate.
@@carnage77 How so? If you restrict the pressure side too much, it can surge. But if restrict the inlet side, only max flow rate will be lower? Similar fashion that they use turbo restrictors in rally etc. And i can't really see how compressor surge is 'that bad' when it only fcks up the bearings/impeller? Its nothing compared to having turbojet between your legs :d
@@kese5593 if the turbo impeller gets unhappy it will head off to the cylinder to make some mcnuggets if you know what i mean also once your compressor stalls it can't maintain max pressure anymore, so you loose boost.
@@kese5593 It doesn't work that way, adding a restrictor to the intake of a compressor moves the operating point to the left on the compressor map. The region where you're more likely to hit compressor surge. Exactly what you don't want to do.
I have zero opposition to "crazy" ideas (I am after all running a VGT turbo from a 6.7L diesel, with the VGT actuator controlled via CAN network, on my 2.7L gasoline powered car that predates CAN networks by some years, in large part "just because"). But as soon as the success of one subsystem of the overall concept depends on the success of another subsystem, things get infinitely more difficult, and usually impossible! For example, when the crank power 50cc engine needs to be sufficient to power the supercharger, and the supercharger's angular velocity needs to be appropriate to create the appropriate pressure/flow to maintain combustion into the turbine of the turbocharger, and the fuel supply to the turbojet needs to be sufficient to maintain that combustion, that combustion needs to impart sufficient shaft power and appropriate angular velocity into the compressor of the turbo, which needs to create sufficient pressure and flow to feed the 50cc engine while avoiding surge... all of a sudden the stars will need to align to get the entire system working at all, let alone making significant excess crank power to achieve your overall goal. That doesn't mean it won't work! But for development to succeed, you have to break the interdependencies of the subsystems and make them independent from each other, figure out how each works and how to optimize it for your overall goal, then put the pieces together with the knowledge gained. If you do that, I think you'll succeed, particularly because you are highly motivated, creative, love doing this, and maybe most importantly, *you're one person with unilateral design decision-making power*. Maintain clarity of vision, combine it with objective, evidence-based decision-making, and you will likely create novel, record-breaking stuff! To go back to the jazz analogy, handing instruments out to a group a people that have no musical knowledge will not result in free jazz in any reasonable timeframe, most likely never at all. They'll just get bored and frustrated after feeling overwhelmed. But giving some technical and theory training to each of them, figuring out what they're talented at and what they enjoy, figuring out how to get them into a situation where they can do what they're good at and what they enjoy - THAT will make it much more likely that they'll make nice music together, maybe even some nice jazz. In this analogy the aspiring musicians are each subsystem, not the music director, to be clear :)
👆🏻What this person says. One variable at a time. A little bit slower progress initially, but the time saved in successive iterations will far more than make up for it. Really, I don’t know enough about 2-stroke engines to offer any specific suggestions. I have done some experimental work (so long ago we had to watch out for pterodactyls), and usually, the ‘change one thing and test, test, test’ folks would come up with the best result before the ‘all at a single whack, test, change a random amount of stuff [up to everything] all at once, repeat’ folks. Once in a while, the second group would either get lucky, or had a team that had the specific knowledge to try the right combo early, then, they would beat the first group by a huge margin. I love the unique combinations you try. I love the idea of a supercharged 50cc!
Agree... I have been experimenting with a 150cc to 185 - 205 - 225 - 251cc air cooled 4 stroke, over the last 11 years.. almost have it sorted out 🤪 13000 rpm 12.5 : 1. Was 11.5 : 1 @ 12000 rpm 2 months ago. Step by step after my wild attempts at 14 : 1 and 30+ forged (melted) pistons later 😂 Went great but only lasted a few months. Shooting for 45-50hp reliably out of a 251cc SOHC air cooled KLX 140 bored, balanced with oversized everything... My OCD continues 🤙
I agree with another users comment. An electronic blower would be a reliable option for testing and verifying your current theory. But without the need to create a compound turbo jet engine turbo system which may cause unreliable test results. Although it would be worth a try once you have verified the engine produces the power numbers you are after with an electric blower.
from there you could a stator and flywheel from a snowmobile to produce power efficiently for an electric blower and some logic to have variable speeds to make it behave properly
Good suggestion. You would need a surprisingly beefy electric blower. I wonder if just testing with an airline would be suitable. Which made me think why not have a solenoid connected to an air tank at pressure that opens at the correct crankshaft timing. The compressed air could come from the cylinder on over run in practice.
@@tomscum61 Beefy, but nothing too crazy - a turbo usually needs maybe 10% of the engine's power to run, let's say for a centrifugal supercharger 20% due to additional mechanical losses. If he wants to make 30hp net at the 50cc crank, and have the blower driven by the 50cc crank, he needs about 7.5hp going into the blower (37.5hp gross before supercharger losses). The rotrex might be much more mechanically efficient than that, I don't know for sure.
agree, get the engine performing with a known flowrate then try to engineer a solution to match that. you can then reengineer to minimise losses as that is the 'ideal'
I would like to see more "regular" stuff. Like getting the engine running and dyno showing correct results. Its cool to play with big parts and crazy ideas but getting some actual results is what ive been waiting for a long time.
I think the only problem with this idea is that it's no longer a 50cc engine. You are adding additional combustion volume external to the main engine. I think the real solution might be to try and work with rotrex or someone to just make a custom supercharger.
Imagine an engine that is being boosted by a supercharger which is being run by an electric motor - do we need to add the battery capacity or the electric motor HP to the final power output? Nope. Same idea as an electric car with a small battery AND a small petrol engine that generates electricity, charging the battery.
@@carnage77 I disagree you do need to add in the external power, it's functionally the same as adding another gas engine. The only way your example works is if you generate all the power in the battery with the gas engine. This can work but you can't charge up a big battery on the side and then just consume it. His ultimate goal is a Landspeed attempt with the "Most powerful 50cc 2 stroke. You can't have a 50cc then strap on jet turbine and call it the same. Turbo's and Supers are different because they are powered by the engine. It takes horsepower to run a turbo or super. The bonus is if sized correctly they end up adding more power than they consume. Primarily by shoving more air into the cylinder which lets you add more fuel for a bigger bang.
Love your ideas, but I am not sure it would count as a 50cc two stroke.. You could just use electric supercharging, or run another IC engine just to provide the compressed air but isn't that cheating?
I've been watching these videos for some time now and I don't think I ever found out why he doesn't use nitrous. Unless it's some weird law where he's at. A jet engine could work like when Subaru made the jet engine exhaust for constant anti-lag, but maybe not, I'm not a college graduate. If he'd be okay with the idea of an electric supercharger, then maybe he could integrate the throttle for the supercharger with the throttle for the engine, and if there's still a surge I'd like to see if a blow off valve would help
There's a guy in the UK Nick Mann who runs a hill climb single seater called Mannic Beatie. He uses a gas turbine to spin a turbocharger up to feed air into the engine ( Ford BD T I think). The idea is that there is no lag whatsoever therefore increasing acceleration. It's a bit nuts, there's film of it on YT.
I've been reading about Russian turbo charged ww2 aircraft! They eliminated lag by blocking up the turbos intake! Like how when you are using a hoover and block the intake, the hoover motor rpm greatly increases.
Im afraid that the changing rpm of the engine running the 1st compressor will make it difficult to create stable jet engine. How about running just the turbo as jet and siphoning some of its pressure for the 2stroke?
You could use a roots blower and turbocharger compound setup. The roots blower output is connected to the crankcase and is driven from the engine at an "efficient" pressure ratio, maybe 1 bar. The turbocharger driven from the exhaust gas from the engine feeds in to the roots blower input at maybe 2 bar. Then you have 4 bar fore example. That solves the difficult starting problem and the inefficiency problems.
@@painlessadventureis correct, most of the old 2 stroke Detroit diesels would not start without the supercharger setup. I suspect it won't be much different here.
He has already tried that in the past i believe. Only just a roots type supercharger. That poor old supercharger did not like the RPM it was getting. In this current design he won't be using the crankcase as a manifold as he will be running rotary valves on top of the cylinder.
you can also check out how volvo penta use turbo compressor on some engines with a flapper valve between the compressor and turbo, also using magnetic coupling to the compressor to increse efficency
If you are going to jet super charge the engine the you can use the pressure of the first compressor, direct it to a combustion chamber and have that the power the turbo and use the internal waste gate of the turbo to keep pressure in check. If you use any car turbo and you can actually get it to spin 180k per min you will have way more then you need as pressure for the 50cc you want to fill. But personally I would go with the compressor and Electronic adjustable bleed valve for 1st test and optimize flow in engine en see where it will blow first. Because with 2-3bar it will. It will be a great video!
Oh. My. God. This is the best "but why" project ever. Please continue with it. Also please don't snap when you are trying to get it all to run together properly. You're the hero we need, but we don't deserve.
You may want to shoot an email to the SCTA about your idea. They may interpret the rocket as a second combustion chamber of much higher volume than the cylinder. Never the less i am excited to see the idea developed.
With 2 Scuba tanks I calculate that at 20,000 Rpm you would get about 30 Sec run time on a 50CC engine. Pressure is virtually unlimited. Would that be enough to do the course? Seems that would be a lot Lighter and less complicated than what you are planning.
Before committing to building a turbo, which can be laborious to optimize for efficiency, consider starting with a compressed air compressor for testing.
Using your pressure gauge and MAF sensors using a simple adjustable dump valve you could vary the dump to get numbers that the engine actually likes and then change drive ratios to get it there.
I hope you will have a working engine soon. Have been waiting for a couple of years now. Come on. Get something to work soon. Live the effort you have. Ceep up the good ideas and drive to keap doing it ❤
Makes sense somehow... I presume that the first compressor is a positive flow type - in other words for each revolution it moves a fixed volume of air and the air cannot flow "backwards". Then that drives the second "turbo" compressor where the "drive air" does not necessarily make the turbine turn at speeds directly proportional to the volume of air being received. That will help keep the pulsing experienced after the 2nd compressor down because if the pressure is too high momentarily, some of the compressed sit will "bleed back" through the turbine thus not making the "pulsing" so pronounced... I think... A hybrid inlet air compressing device - a HIAC device if you will. Think so... it might... maybe... Oh well, we will find out one way or another in a future video won't we.
I really get it that your into having a totally new idea, or concept, thats great! But sometimes success needs to be more gradual. There is HUGE potential for being the first to have variable port timing on a turbocharged two stroke. The size of the turbo you will be able to spool will be well beyond what most think is capable. You also need 50% or more compressor flow than on a 4 stroke. Pipe design, variable intake and exhaust timing (youll get around to doing that imo) All put together will net you the 50cc horsepower Champ no doubt. Too many different concepts combined will be a long road. You need a big win! Retarding ignition timing = makes turbo party🎉
@@v4skunk739 yeah. its a really cool design. They built a sustained combustion chamber in the exhaust system right before the turbo. I dont recall if any extra air or fuel was added into the exhaust outside of what the engine provides, but it would spool the turbo like it was a turbo jet.
As you are running in the compressed air you need to consider the air meter, it is a hot wire device and the calibration is set for air at a normal atmospheric temperatures, normally up to 65C. When you compress the air in a supercharger the temperature goes way above this, so the calibration will be way off. A better solution would be to use a flap air meter from a much older EFI system as these are much less affected by temperature changes, something like this Bosch Air Flow Meter 0 280 200 024. Some modern diesel engines use compound pressure charging with two stage turbos, with one small and one large unit. Does the addition of the 'turbo jet' device count in the size of the engine? It is generating power (to drive the compressor) so does it count in engine size calculation? Might be an issue with the 50cc capacity limit if it does.
You are going to lose so many followers with the madness, you are so cleaver and have a better understanding of 2 stroke and tuning than I ever will. Just go back to the 50cc PIP engine and get back out to the salt planes. How on earth could you get all of that crap on your bike. Complete waste of time, money and progress. if you have to wait for the cylinder to be ready then get back work on the dyno
That is cheating. You put in energy by combustion of the turbojet. I think the turbo or compressor must be driven by the 50cc engine to call it the most powerful 2 stroke. Otherwise you could also put some extra rockets on your bike. You could also gear down the compressor to reduce flow rate and save energy losses. Just find the sweet spot in rpm, pressure and flowrate.
I appreciate the impulse to explore but I think you're chasing your own tail at this point; is it really a 50cc engine if there are 2 combustion chambers in the intake? I think you'd be better off with a big electric motor that you can control more precisely to run the centrifugal compressor, get it running at the airflow you're trying to prove, then tune the compressor/intake to be efficient enough to run off parasitic power from the actual engine. Change one variable at a time, not all of them.
Just an idea, you can the route blowoff valve from the supercharger into the turbo this should be able to spin up a garrett gt06 turbo. Then route the presure side of the turbo into the inlet of the supercharger. This way you can get rid of extra air volume and have a compound setup reaching higher levels of boost. In my head this makes sense😅😅
For your engine dyno and testing, you could consider having a air compressor and air tank with a large volume to feed the engine. Constant pressure without turbo/super charger losses. Cosworth and ford did this in the 80s on their F1 engines. Need a big enough tank to last a run tho! And when your engine is performing how you want, you can move on to actually setting up the method of creating boost.
One idea is just to have compressed air and feed the engine for testning purpose and then when you know all the parameters you can design a turbo yourself. I would never stop watching no matter what but I think the concept of 50cc is lost with external combustion to feed the engine
resistance equals pressure more resistance more pressure, i have to say that as a mechanic myself and build many turbosystems i cannot get a hold of this. of course the components of the setup have to be made for higher pressures, but still without flow and resistance there isn't any pressure, if you take out some of the flow pressure will gain slower, or in a running setup like this, it will never get high.
MAF needs to be before the compressor, measuring only the air entering the engine doesn't tell you how much is leaked off, so you have no idea if you are really out of surge or into choke etc. You need to plot maf before compressor and map after compressor, to calculate the pressure ratio and flow through the compressor and set the bleed air after the compressor to sit in the place you want in the compressor map
For testing purposes! What if you first use a standard air compressor to fill some tanks to 10 bar, and then use some large adjustable pressure valves to pressurize the intake with the desired pressure? This way, you can test the engine on the dyno with x number of bars before you spend a lot of time creating the madness of compressor-fed jet propulsion of a turbo.
How is it practical to have 2 engines 2 fuel systems 2 ignition systems not to mention the turbojet consumes allot of fuel(diesel kerosine or jet A). I think you are loosing focus.
Carrying on with the stupid, could you test the brute force idea with a dive tank and reg. A dive tank is at 3000 psi but a reg can reduce it down to a desired level.
Your brilliant idea is on the right track, some brilliant engineers played with this sort of thing with the aero engines circa WW2 just about when the jet engine came in. You can also just compound the waste gas from the supercharger onto a crank drive although that wouldn't be making extra boost just harvesting waste energy.
This problem was solved just in the past. The solution is an external reciprocating piston compressor driven by the engine. High pressure ratio with fixed displacement per revolution.
@@franciscoerjavec3155pressure mean nothing it just a measurement of restrictions running high pressure is not efficient you always want to flow the required CFM for the HP goal at the lowest pressure possible I could put a a cap on the turbo outlet and poke a 2 mm hole and get 100psi or a could remove the restriction completely and have 0 psi at the same flow tell my why they used them in Detroit 2 stroke Diesel engine root type supercharger are fixed displacement and like a said pressure is just a measure of restrictions not a measure of flow turbo are generally rated in lbs/minute a 80lbs/minutes turbo is capable of roughly 800hp they don't say 800hp at 50 psi turbo don't like high flow/low boost or low flow/high boost vs shaft speed ie surge and choke line on a compressor map or the point of this video If you add a second piston the engine is no longer a 50cc single so that defeats the purpose Sure you could but a 100cc piston feeding a 50cc piston but in the end you got a 150cc engine, piston and valve associated to it produce alot of heat try to touch the head of a air compressor just for fun lol
I'm no expert at all but had the thought: why not pass the excess air at the exhaust of the engine to help more efficiently clear exhaust gasses, with the additional bonus of higher flow to the turbo?
I was thinking something similar, trying to go over it in my head, but, I'm not 100% on if it will work. Unless you have match pressures, if the exhaust gets to over pressured, you'll bog the engine out, would it not?
I was thinking a few months ago that a system similar to this could work well for a 1000 cc 2 stroke. The only difference was I was going to try and add a rocket combustor like Subarus rally car where it used the hot fuel rich 2 stroke exhaust (with extra fuel too) to make pressure to scavenge a 2 stroke without needing crankcase scavenging
Had you considered using a high pressure Air tank with a small heater and regulator feeding into the motor, OK mileage would be bad, but you should do the 1/4 mile OK 👍
I think if you analyze the idea with the laws of physics in mind, it will prove to be even more inefficient than the roots blower. As for a turbojet, then just build a turbine engine and eliminate the piston
Like others have mentioned, buy or build a separate air compressor / gas generator that meets your required flow rate at your required pressure(s) independent of the engine with a separate power source. Then test your engine configurations. You may need your new intercooler to help get a stable air density for testing. When you get your engine the way you like it then figure out how to get the engine to power its own compressor. Maybe you will need a tank of compressed air to aid in remote starting until the engine can develop its own air flow/pressure.
Please please please stop the madness! Stick to a PIP engine please. I won't be watching anymore of this untill you go back to some form of sense?!?**?!*?!*
He has been going backwards for a few years now. I'm with you get back to basics it all went to crap starting with the nitro. The progressively went in reverse.
Check with rulemakers for the land speed events first. That jet engine will still produce some amount of thrust, and I don't know how they would feel about your '50cc' bike also getting some amount of thrust (however small) from a jet engine. If they're OK with it, it might honestly be easier to just buy a more powerful 4 stroke engine and use that to run a supercharger and turbocharger purely to feed your 2 stroke - it's the same concept, just not as cool as a jet, obviously, but more reliable. Or use a 2 stroke purely to drive supercharger(s). It stands to reason they'd be OK with either route if they're OK with the jet engine. Honestly I think it might be easier to take a turbocharger compressor of the proper size, remove the turbine, and gear it to spin at the proper RPM via a belt drive. The weight of a system like you describe wouldn't be an issue for a land speed bike, but the sheer amount of extra systems required could be an issue for reliability. I've built a jet out of a turbocharger before - you need to add an oil pump, a fuel pump, another ignition driver, another oil cooler, etc. Those additional pumps are a decent bit of extra load compared to just using a second carbureted piston engine which doesn't require them - you could even run your electrical systems off the second engine to remove that drag from the 50cc.
Yes very good point - not just about the thrust, but "displacement" as well. Or even engine type - I imagine there are classes for jet-powered vehicles that use the jet's shaft power to drive wheels as the primary vehicle drive source.
I agree. I wonder if compressed air supercharging would be legal. The compressed air might be an extra energy source but at least all gas goes through the engine
If you are talking about making a turbo why not make a new compressor for the Rotex and cut out the middle man, you need to think of weight too. so look to calculate the volume you need at xxxx rpm then can cellulate the Rotex output rpm and from there you can calculate the size of turbine to give you the Psi and volume you need.
I love were this is going, it's completely mad. Why not use a model aircraft turbine to drive a turbocharger or bleed air directly somehow if possible for superchargering?
You could just use bottled compressed air. 250cc x15k rpm =3750L/min. At 300 bar the bottle volume would be 12.5L per minute of wide open runtime. No compressor energy needed and extremely cool charge air at whatever pressure you need. You could have a checkvalve to allow for atmospheric idle to save on air. A big steel bottle for testing and carbon fibre bottle for racing, 12L is a reasonable 700€ and 11kg.
There is a company named compressed air supercharging doing this, they have videos on youtube and a good website, so this would not be totally uncharted territory and information and parts to do this are available by the way
You shouldn't struggle with compressor at this point. You should have one which can deliver everything you ever need. My friend once find an old lamellar compressor from junkyard and paid something like 200€ from it. We find it be in perfect shape. It had 7.5kW three phase electric motor in it and enoug air flow for your need for sure. It also had adjustable pressure from somewhere around 0.5 bars to 8bar. He used it with concrete sprayer and pressure control was so good it didn't need any storage tank or regulator. Such thing would be pretty handy for you too, and it didn't waste much power if air was not needed. Idling power was around 1kw.
What a waste of PATREON MONEY another far out not realistic idea and in a couple off months hes starts back over without achieving anything that performs. Seems to keep him self busy with side quests, 4 stroke, now a diy turbine engine. Im sure im watching someone loosing his sanity beyond repair.
stop giving and quit watching take your opinions with you . -------------closed mouth -or --encourage, support, suggest, inform, teach, constructivly criticise,--or closed mouth...........
They use pounds per min to figure turbo sizing here in the states. 50cc times 15000 rpm should give you a volume that is convertible to kilos of air, then look for a turbo that provides the multiple you're looking for.
You are absolutely nuts in a very entertaining and in completely offensive way. That is some achievement - great work! A roots charger + turbo combination should solve all your problems, shouldn't it? I do like the idea of using a jet though... that's absolutely mad.
I’ve been thinking for a while since you’ve been talking about what to do with the excess air from the pro charger… how about dumping the excess air right to the exhaust side of the engine to create a scavenging effect on the engine?
Brilliant, I suggest you size the compressor of the turbo large enough to supply the 2 stroke engine and the turbojet system. Eliminate the weight, drag and complexity of the AMR supercharger. The only use of the AMR supercharger would be to ignite the turbojet system, I am sure there could be other ways to get it spinning. What do airplane turbojet engines use to start? I don't get 'stupid', but I question 'economically viable'. I understand that cost of operation is not the challenge here, so I think you are dreaming up a winning combo and I love watching you build these crazy things.
OOO this is exciting! I made a turbo jet with a friend many years ago: ua-cam.com/video/kKptM8cS9n8/v-deo.html Is there something to be said for just making a turbo jet (without the rotrex), just a normal turbo based jet engine, then bleed off a smal portion of the air from the compressor for the piston engine. It might be simpler to control, just fueling to alter to vary the pressure. The piston engine changing speed as you go through the gears will make controlling the boost more complex with the rotrex involved. Awesome work though, take my suggestion with a pinch of salt. Your idea is far more credible as you have the energy and know how to see it through. Really enjoying the videos
if i understand you correctly. your goal here is to ultimately end up with enough airflow to make 4 bars of pressure at the engine inlet? if thats so. Then i think a better option is a compound turbo setup (not to be confused with turbo compounding) a turbo jet sounds alot cooler thoug. but maybe you can take subarus wrc antilag system and combine that with a compound turbo setup?
Alex, great channel, great work. here's a concept you might want to research. Electric supercharger, There are a few youtube videos out. The blower is driven by an electric rc motor on a separate circuit and not driven by crank rpm
You can't get out more power than you put in. For an electric blower to produce 1hp, it's going to take more than 1hp to drive it due to the inefficiencies of the conversion from electrical to mechanical energy. If it was a feasible idea, manufacturers would be using them in current engines.
@@EddieTheH For some reason, people keep saying that for land speed records weight doesn't matter much? Maybe cuz they have already accelerated when they hit the measured distance? In some classes it may even be benefitial to be "heavy" for added traction on the salt, it seems. Not my words, just what I feel like I have heard from time to time. That's what he's building towards and whether it happens or not we don't know yet, but that's the goal and framework.
Electric driven compressor is not the solution, the problem is still the design of the comp wheel which does not match the air consumption of the engine.
Also, with a Centrifugal Supercharger, you can tune with pulley combinations EXTERNALLY and it's boost pressure will rise with it's input RPM, so that you can pulley 'tune it' to start boosting AFTER PEAK TORQUE while pulling Timing to match. It will still boost in the lower RPM ranges, but you can set it with pulley sizes to only make BIG BOOST after peak torque to keep things safe, such as 0.25 - 0.5 BAR under 8,000 RPM, then have it reach 1 BAR+ when it's over 10,000 RPM and AFTER peak TQ has been reached, in order to keep cylinder pressure in check.
Right...Let's take something simple and make it even more complicated and get even more flow than the initial supercharged set up. The turbo jet will flow 5 times the air = more surge? JUST BLEED THE AIR AND AVOID THE SURGE FROM THE ORIGINAL SET UP. THATS WHAT A BLOW OFF DOES ANYWAY.
This project gone take Years , upcoming issues ,intake ,detonation ,exhaust-timing/chain-drive , piston-ring , crankshaft-seals ,big-end bearing , injection . Or am I thinking wrong?
Hi Alex, I am concerned you are perhaps overthinking all of this or something else is going on here. Maybe slow down and reaccess what your aim is. I say that as I am confused after watching this video and not sure what the goal is any more. Is it the most powerful Two Stroke (HP/CC) or the most powerful 50cc Engine? You mentioned avoiding inefficiency, my definition of inefficiency relates to unnecessary complexity. For either/both of these I honestly can't see why you need 4-5 BAR to achieve either of those goals as 1.5 BAR would do the trick. At that, you only need to control the Air Volume, and that is doable with this Rotrex. As I said earlier, it all comes back to what you want to, ultimately, achieve/build. Take Care of yourself Pete
So let me get this straight,
A turbojet powered 2 stroke?
I have no idea what that is, but I'm excited
He's trying to execute that concept for a flow bench first, but seems he wants to execute the same concept down the line for a land speed record bike that this engine will be fitted to.
@lucky7s94 looks like it's gonna be a complicated mess, but, I'm all in and eager to learn
The scientist got even more mad.
He needs 1.21 giggawatts 😂
The line between a madman and a genius is thin as a paper
I dont know im missing the red thread now a bit...
Part of me likes watching these videos. Part of me feels like I'm watching a guy coming unglued
Anyone who does this kind of work (myself included) are a bid mad by nature.
The line between genius and insanity is very fine
You are watching a guy glue himself back together. I watch him and recognise the struggle that people like myself have with hyper focus, and how when we get stressed or over stimulated, trying to explain even simple things, turns into a battle in your mind.
I’m fighting my problem on two k24 engines and the timing problem I have with both….. my brain is twisted on a few problems.
Its ok he will just jb weld himself back together.
There is nothing more fun than trying to explain a crazy assed idea to others.
I hope this turns out. It would be crazy awesome.
If you can't explain it in simple terms, you don't understand what you're saying
This is turning into the most Rube Goldberg supercharging setup I have ever heard of. All because you can't find a compressor suited for such a low flow rate.
And if flow rate is the only problem, why not go the simple way and add air restrictor to intake side of supercharger?
@@kese5593 That would cause compressor stall. Which is very bad when sitting on a machine that has a compressor between your legs.
@@carnage77 How so? If you restrict the pressure side too much, it can surge. But if restrict the inlet side, only max flow rate will be lower? Similar fashion that they use turbo restrictors in rally etc.
And i can't really see how compressor surge is 'that bad' when it only fcks up the bearings/impeller? Its nothing compared to having turbojet between your legs :d
@@kese5593 if the turbo impeller gets unhappy it will head off to the cylinder to make some mcnuggets if you know what i mean
also once your compressor stalls it can't maintain max pressure anymore, so you loose boost.
@@kese5593 It doesn't work that way, adding a restrictor to the intake of a compressor moves the operating point to the left on the compressor map. The region where you're more likely to hit compressor surge. Exactly what you don't want to do.
I have zero opposition to "crazy" ideas (I am after all running a VGT turbo from a 6.7L diesel, with the VGT actuator controlled via CAN network, on my 2.7L gasoline powered car that predates CAN networks by some years, in large part "just because"). But as soon as the success of one subsystem of the overall concept depends on the success of another subsystem, things get infinitely more difficult, and usually impossible!
For example, when the crank power 50cc engine needs to be sufficient to power the supercharger, and the supercharger's angular velocity needs to be appropriate to create the appropriate pressure/flow to maintain combustion into the turbine of the turbocharger, and the fuel supply to the turbojet needs to be sufficient to maintain that combustion, that combustion needs to impart sufficient shaft power and appropriate angular velocity into the compressor of the turbo, which needs to create sufficient pressure and flow to feed the 50cc engine while avoiding surge... all of a sudden the stars will need to align to get the entire system working at all, let alone making significant excess crank power to achieve your overall goal.
That doesn't mean it won't work! But for development to succeed, you have to break the interdependencies of the subsystems and make them independent from each other, figure out how each works and how to optimize it for your overall goal, then put the pieces together with the knowledge gained. If you do that, I think you'll succeed, particularly because you are highly motivated, creative, love doing this, and maybe most importantly, *you're one person with unilateral design decision-making power*. Maintain clarity of vision, combine it with objective, evidence-based decision-making, and you will likely create novel, record-breaking stuff!
To go back to the jazz analogy, handing instruments out to a group a people that have no musical knowledge will not result in free jazz in any reasonable timeframe, most likely never at all. They'll just get bored and frustrated after feeling overwhelmed. But giving some technical and theory training to each of them, figuring out what they're talented at and what they enjoy, figuring out how to get them into a situation where they can do what they're good at and what they enjoy - THAT will make it much more likely that they'll make nice music together, maybe even some nice jazz. In this analogy the aspiring musicians are each subsystem, not the music director, to be clear :)
👆🏻What this person says. One variable at a time. A little bit slower progress initially, but the time saved in successive iterations will far more than make up for it.
Really, I don’t know enough about 2-stroke engines to offer any specific suggestions. I have done some experimental work (so long ago we had to watch out for pterodactyls), and usually, the ‘change one thing and test, test, test’ folks would come up with the best result before the ‘all at a single whack, test, change a random amount of stuff [up to everything] all at once, repeat’ folks. Once in a while, the second group would either get lucky, or had a team that had the specific knowledge to try the right combo early, then, they would beat the first group by a huge margin.
I love the unique combinations you try. I love the idea of a supercharged 50cc!
Agree... I have been experimenting with a 150cc to 185 - 205 - 225 - 251cc air cooled 4 stroke, over the last 11 years.. almost have it sorted out 🤪 13000 rpm 12.5 : 1. Was 11.5 : 1 @ 12000 rpm 2 months ago. Step by step after my wild attempts at 14 : 1 and 30+ forged (melted) pistons later 😂 Went great but only lasted a few months. Shooting for 45-50hp reliably out of a 251cc SOHC air cooled KLX 140 bored, balanced with oversized everything... My OCD continues 🤙
I agree with another users comment. An electronic blower would be a reliable option for testing and verifying your current theory. But without the need to create a compound turbo jet engine turbo system which may cause unreliable test results. Although it would be worth a try once you have verified the engine produces the power numbers you are after with an electric blower.
from there you could a stator and flywheel from a snowmobile to produce power efficiently for an electric blower and some logic to have variable speeds to make it behave properly
Good suggestion. You would need a surprisingly beefy electric blower.
I wonder if just testing with an airline would be suitable. Which made me think why not have a solenoid connected to an air tank at pressure that opens at the correct crankshaft timing. The compressed air could come from the cylinder on over run in practice.
this is the way, I think
@@tomscum61 Beefy, but nothing too crazy - a turbo usually needs maybe 10% of the engine's power to run, let's say for a centrifugal supercharger 20% due to additional mechanical losses. If he wants to make 30hp net at the 50cc crank, and have the blower driven by the 50cc crank, he needs about 7.5hp going into the blower (37.5hp gross before supercharger losses). The rotrex might be much more mechanically efficient than that, I don't know for sure.
agree, get the engine performing with a known flowrate then try to engineer a solution to match that. you can then reengineer to minimise losses as that is the 'ideal'
I would like to see more "regular" stuff. Like getting the engine running and dyno showing correct results. Its cool to play with big parts and crazy ideas but getting some actual results is what ive been waiting for a long time.
. -------------closed mouth -or --encourage, support, suggest, inform, teach, constructivly criticise,--or closed mouth...........
I was under the impression he was going to use the 4 stroke as a baseline for the dyno not try to run the supercharged
I think the only problem with this idea is that it's no longer a 50cc engine. You are adding additional combustion volume external to the main engine. I think the real solution might be to try and work with rotrex or someone to just make a custom supercharger.
It's kinda like anti-lag, don't know about the rules regarding it are though
@jordanthedove its like the time subaru did that in rally. There is a video here on yt that explains this concept really well
Imagine an engine that is being boosted by a supercharger which is being run by an electric motor - do we need to add the battery capacity or the electric motor HP to the final power output? Nope.
Same idea as an electric car with a small battery AND a small petrol engine that generates electricity, charging the battery.
@@LuxGamer16 Nissan did similar in the 80s with the K10 March/Micra Super Turbo.
@@carnage77 I disagree you do need to add in the external power, it's functionally the same as adding another gas engine. The only way your example works is if you generate all the power in the battery with the gas engine. This can work but you can't charge up a big battery on the side and then just consume it. His ultimate goal is a Landspeed attempt with the "Most powerful 50cc 2 stroke. You can't have a 50cc then strap on jet turbine and call it the same. Turbo's and Supers are different because they are powered by the engine. It takes horsepower to run a turbo or super. The bonus is if sized correctly they end up adding more power than they consume. Primarily by shoving more air into the cylinder which lets you add more fuel for a bigger bang.
Now I really want to see that intercooler installed on a bike frame, 100% !
Love your ideas, but I am not sure it would count as a 50cc two stroke.. You could just use electric supercharging, or run another IC engine just to provide the compressed air but isn't that cheating?
I've been watching these videos for some time now and I don't think I ever found out why he doesn't use nitrous. Unless it's some weird law where he's at. A jet engine could work like when Subaru made the jet engine exhaust for constant anti-lag, but maybe not, I'm not a college graduate. If he'd be okay with the idea of an electric supercharger, then maybe he could integrate the throttle for the supercharger with the throttle for the engine, and if there's still a surge I'd like to see if a blow off valve would help
There's a guy in the UK Nick Mann who runs a hill climb single seater called Mannic Beatie.
He uses a gas turbine to spin a turbocharger up to feed air into the engine ( Ford BD T I think).
The idea is that there is no lag whatsoever therefore increasing acceleration.
It's a bit nuts, there's film of it on YT.
I was about to comment exactly this.
Well remembered.
I've been reading about Russian turbo charged ww2 aircraft! They eliminated lag by blocking up the turbos intake! Like how when you are using a hoover and block the intake, the hoover motor rpm greatly increases.
ua-cam.com/video/6EMleegZQLw/v-deo.htmlsi=5U7Z4SVDjeXVUT37
This should be top comment
he removed the turbo years ago. its direct from the turbine now
Im afraid that the changing rpm of the engine running the 1st compressor will make it difficult to create stable jet engine. How about running just the turbo as jet and siphoning some of its pressure for the 2stroke?
This makes infinitely more sense. Although neither really are a better idea than a properly sized compressor. Please like this comment.
You could use a roots blower and turbocharger compound setup.
The roots blower output is connected to the crankcase and is driven from the engine at an "efficient" pressure ratio, maybe 1 bar.
The turbocharger driven from the exhaust gas from the engine feeds in to the roots blower input at maybe 2 bar.
Then you have 4 bar fore example.
That solves the difficult starting problem and the inefficiency problems.
Thats how the Detroit 2 stroke diesels were made.
@@painlessadventureis correct, most of the old 2 stroke Detroit diesels would not start without the supercharger setup. I suspect it won't be much different here.
I think this is a great idea. Compound turbo/supercharging has a long history and was used in several ww2 fighters that needed crazy power to weight.
He has already tried that in the past i believe. Only just a roots type supercharger. That poor old supercharger did not like the RPM it was getting. In this current design he won't be using the crankcase as a manifold as he will be running rotary valves on top of the cylinder.
you can also check out how volvo penta use turbo compressor on some engines with a flapper valve between the compressor and turbo, also using magnetic coupling to the compressor to increse efficency
If you are going to jet super charge the engine the you can use the pressure of the first compressor, direct it to a combustion chamber and have that the power the turbo and use the internal waste gate of the turbo to keep pressure in check.
If you use any car turbo and you can actually get it to spin 180k per min you will have way more then you need as pressure for the 50cc you want to fill.
But personally I would go with the compressor and Electronic adjustable bleed valve for 1st test and optimize flow in engine en see where it will blow first. Because with 2-3bar it will.
It will be a great video!
My friend made a small cc diesel land speed car. he found the small cc engines stuggle to spool up a turbo to output much pressure.
Oh. My. God. This is the best "but why" project ever. Please continue with it. Also please don't snap when you are trying to get it all to run together properly. You're the hero we need, but we don't deserve.
i started laughing so hard when he said 'afterburner', this is pure comedy.
I think that A careful re-reading of the Bonneville Speed-Record RULES will end all of these distractions.
It was fun for a while though...
Maybe... just hook-up your air compressor to the intake plenum and run the motor at regulated pressures to see how the engine will perform.
with all this complexity might attach a stirling engine to the exhaust just to squeeze out more efficiency
You may want to shoot an email to the SCTA about your idea. They may interpret the rocket as a second combustion chamber of much higher volume than the cylinder. Never the less i am excited to see the idea developed.
He's looking for free efficiency. He may as well just direct couple a 250cc 2 stroke to his 50cc 2 Strokes crankshaft to drive it😂
With 2 Scuba tanks I calculate that at 20,000 Rpm you would get about 30 Sec run time on a 50CC engine. Pressure is virtually unlimited.
Would that be enough to do the course?
Seems that would be a lot Lighter and less complicated than what you are planning.
Before committing to building a turbo, which can be laborious to optimize for efficiency, consider starting with a compressed air compressor for testing.
Using your pressure gauge and MAF sensors using a simple adjustable dump valve you could vary the dump to get numbers that the engine actually likes and then change drive ratios to get it there.
Why don't you make a 100cc version to count for the bigger supercharger? I know 50cc moped ecc but for testing purposes?
I hope you will have a working engine soon. Have been waiting for a couple of years now. Come on. Get something to work soon. Live the effort you have. Ceep up the good ideas and drive to keap doing it ❤
You and everyone else that's been subscribed for ever watching zero progress.
Well I'm here for the ride.. finished or not...
Makes sense somehow...
I presume that the first compressor is a positive flow type - in other words for each revolution it moves a fixed volume of air and the air cannot flow "backwards".
Then that drives the second "turbo" compressor where the "drive air" does not necessarily make the turbine turn at speeds directly proportional to the volume of air being received.
That will help keep the pulsing experienced after the 2nd compressor down because if the pressure is too high momentarily, some of the compressed sit will "bleed back" through the turbine thus not making the "pulsing" so pronounced...
I think...
A hybrid inlet air compressing device - a HIAC device if you will.
Think so... it might... maybe...
Oh well, we will find out one way or another in a future video won't we.
I really get it that your into having a totally new idea, or concept, thats great! But sometimes success needs to be more gradual. There is HUGE potential for being the first to have variable port timing on a turbocharged two stroke. The size of the turbo you will be able to spool will be well beyond what most think is capable. You also need 50% or more compressor flow than on a 4 stroke. Pipe design, variable intake and exhaust timing (youll get around to doing that imo)
All put together will net you the 50cc horsepower Champ no doubt.
Too many different concepts combined will be a long road. You need a big win!
Retarding ignition timing = makes turbo party🎉
Research the Subaru "rocket turbo" was like a pulse jet in the header using excess boost, exhaust and fule keeping turbo spinning always
I think VISORACER did a vid on this.
@@asrcav8r this is what anti lag is in any turbo setup
@@blainemacdonald6929 The Subaru solution is very innovative and unique though. Nothing like a conventional anti lag system.
@@v4skunk739 cool I'll check it out!
@@v4skunk739 yeah. its a really cool design. They built a sustained combustion chamber in the exhaust system right before the turbo. I dont recall if any extra air or fuel was added into the exhaust outside of what the engine provides, but it would spool the turbo like it was a turbo jet.
As you are running in the compressed air you need to consider the air meter, it is a hot wire device and the calibration is set for air at a normal atmospheric temperatures, normally up to 65C. When you compress the air in a supercharger the temperature goes way above this, so the calibration will be way off. A better solution would be to use a flap air meter from a much older EFI system as these are much less affected by temperature changes, something like this Bosch Air Flow Meter 0 280 200 024. Some modern diesel engines use compound pressure charging with two stage turbos, with one small and one large unit.
Does the addition of the 'turbo jet' device count in the size of the engine? It is generating power (to drive the compressor) so does it count in engine size calculation? Might be an issue with the 50cc capacity limit if it does.
First! What a great way to celebrate friday!🎉
You are going to lose so many followers with the madness, you are so cleaver and have a better understanding of 2 stroke and tuning than I ever will. Just go back to the 50cc PIP engine and get back out to the salt planes. How on earth could you get all of that crap on your bike. Complete waste of time, money and progress. if you have to wait for the cylinder to be ready then get back work on the dyno
I think the EGT of the turbo jet will be a huge issue. Don't forget that you'll have to have some way to cool and lube the turbo bearing.
That is cheating. You put in energy by combustion of the turbojet. I think the turbo or compressor must be driven by the 50cc engine to call it the most powerful 2 stroke. Otherwise you could also put some extra rockets on your bike.
You could also gear down the compressor to reduce flow rate and save energy losses. Just find the sweet spot in rpm, pressure and flowrate.
I appreciate the impulse to explore but I think you're chasing your own tail at this point; is it really a 50cc engine if there are 2 combustion chambers in the intake? I think you'd be better off with a big electric motor that you can control more precisely to run the centrifugal compressor, get it running at the airflow you're trying to prove, then tune the compressor/intake to be efficient enough to run off parasitic power from the actual engine. Change one variable at a time, not all of them.
Just an idea, you can the route blowoff valve from the supercharger into the turbo this should be able to spin up a garrett gt06 turbo. Then route the presure side of the turbo into the inlet of the supercharger. This way you can get rid of extra air volume and have a compound setup reaching higher levels of boost. In my head this makes sense😅😅
For your engine dyno and testing, you could consider having a air compressor and air tank with a large volume to feed the engine. Constant pressure without turbo/super charger losses. Cosworth and ford did this in the 80s on their F1 engines. Need a big enough tank to last a run tho! And when your engine is performing how you want, you can move on to actually setting up the method of creating boost.
One idea is just to have compressed air and feed the engine for testning purpose and then when you know all the parameters you can design a turbo yourself.
I would never stop watching no matter what but I think the concept of 50cc is lost with external combustion to feed the engine
resistance equals pressure more resistance more pressure, i have to say that as a mechanic myself and build many turbosystems i cannot get a hold of this. of course the components of the setup have to be made for higher pressures, but still without flow and resistance there isn't any pressure, if you take out some of the flow pressure will gain slower, or in a running setup like this, it will never get high.
MAF needs to be before the compressor, measuring only the air entering the engine doesn't tell you how much is leaked off, so you have no idea if you are really out of surge or into choke etc. You need to plot maf before compressor and map after compressor, to calculate the pressure ratio and flow through the compressor and set the bleed air after the compressor to sit in the place you want in the compressor map
For testing purposes! What if you first use a standard air compressor to fill some tanks to 10 bar, and then use some large adjustable pressure valves to pressurize the intake with the desired pressure? This way, you can test the engine on the dyno with x number of bars before you spend a lot of time creating the madness of compressor-fed jet propulsion of a turbo.
I think, even a second cylinder as a reciprocating compressor would be more efficient than this multi stage compound turbo setup.
How is it practical to have 2 engines 2 fuel systems 2 ignition systems not to mention the turbojet consumes allot of fuel(diesel kerosine or jet A). I think you are loosing focus.
Carrying on with the stupid, could you test the brute force idea with a dive tank and reg. A dive tank is at 3000 psi but a reg can reduce it down to a desired level.
The rotrex is too big. Its a beautiful peice of equipment but trying to make it work in wild ways is counter productive.
Be wonderful if it works but feels like you are drifting into a technical labyrinth from which you may never escape.
Some garden water pump are using flow passage components (jet centrifugal pump)
If jet centrifugal pump works with water, why it wouldn't work with air?
I get the idea but I'm wondering😅 did you ever do LSD testing for the CIA?
On yourself? 😉
Alex I fear a mental meltdown if you don't step back and breathe, you need to learn to stop you brain from racing
Your brilliant idea is on the right track, some brilliant engineers played with this sort of thing with the aero engines circa WW2 just about when the jet engine came in.
You can also just compound the waste gas from the supercharger onto a crank drive although that wouldn't be making extra boost just harvesting waste energy.
This problem was solved just in the past. The solution is an external reciprocating piston compressor driven by the engine. High pressure ratio with fixed displacement per revolution.
Just use a root type supercharger
Just like he used before fix displacement
@@legros731 root type compressor is not adequate for high compression ratio and pulsating flow.
@@franciscoerjavec3155pressure mean nothing it just a measurement of restrictions running high pressure is not efficient you always want to flow the required CFM for the HP goal at the lowest pressure possible
I could put a a cap on the turbo outlet and poke a 2 mm hole and get 100psi or a could remove the restriction completely and have 0 psi at the same flow
tell my why they used them in Detroit 2 stroke Diesel engine
root type supercharger are fixed displacement and like a said pressure is just a measure of restrictions not a measure of flow
turbo are generally rated in lbs/minute a 80lbs/minutes turbo is capable of roughly 800hp they don't say 800hp at 50 psi
turbo don't like high flow/low boost or low flow/high boost vs shaft speed ie surge and choke line on a compressor map or the point of this video
If you add a second piston the engine is no longer a 50cc single so that defeats the purpose
Sure you could but a 100cc piston feeding a 50cc piston but in the end you got a 150cc engine, piston and valve associated to it produce alot of heat try to touch the head of a air compressor just for fun lol
Imagine if he only got the right size charger from the get go. Like aren't there any that you can buy used or something?
I'm no expert at all but had the thought: why not pass the excess air at the exhaust of the engine to help more efficiently clear exhaust gasses, with the additional bonus of higher flow to the turbo?
I was thinking something similar, trying to go over it in my head, but, I'm not 100% on if it will work. Unless you have match pressures, if the exhaust gets to over pressured, you'll bog the engine out, would it not?
@boziewz6125 Yeah, that thought occurred to me too.
This is getting out of control, internal combustion engines will be outlawed before this is ever successful
I was thinking a few months ago that a system similar to this could work well for a 1000 cc 2 stroke. The only difference was I was going to try and add a rocket combustor like Subarus rally car where it used the hot fuel rich 2 stroke exhaust (with extra fuel too) to make pressure to scavenge a 2 stroke without needing crankcase scavenging
You're not allowed to use thrust to augment the power delivered to the wheels. So no turbojet exhaust.
Had you considered using a high pressure Air tank with a small heater and regulator feeding into the motor, OK mileage would be bad, but you should do the 1/4 mile OK 👍
This sounds like a really long way around to just install a smaller compressor wheel 😂
I think if you analyze the idea with the laws of physics in mind, it will prove to be even more inefficient than the roots blower. As for a turbojet, then just build a turbine engine and eliminate the piston
Get yourself a script for your videos.
Please.
I would ❤ that !
If you use an engine to boost your engine…. You are no longer building a 50cc engine….
2 videos in two days.You don’t need to make us that big of a present😅😁Your videos are fire,keep up the work man❤
Compound rotrex intro the roots blower? Then neither will have to be at too high pressure.
wouldn't the turbojet technically count as a second engine on the bike?
it sounds like a too big supercharger dumping a lot of air is lot of additional loss
Like others have mentioned, buy or build a separate air compressor / gas generator that meets your required flow rate at your required pressure(s) independent of the engine with a separate power source. Then test your engine configurations. You may need your new intercooler to help get a stable air density for testing. When you get your engine the way you like it then figure out how to get the engine to power its own compressor. Maybe you will need a tank of compressed air to aid in remote starting until the engine can develop its own air flow/pressure.
Stick with the supercharger because the 2 stroke won't be efficiently vented.
Please please please stop the madness! Stick to a PIP engine please. I won't be watching anymore of this untill you go back to some form of sense?!?**?!*?!*
He has been going backwards for a few years now. I'm with you get back to basics it all went to crap starting with the nitro. The progressively went in reverse.
Check with rulemakers for the land speed events first. That jet engine will still produce some amount of thrust, and I don't know how they would feel about your '50cc' bike also getting some amount of thrust (however small) from a jet engine. If they're OK with it, it might honestly be easier to just buy a more powerful 4 stroke engine and use that to run a supercharger and turbocharger purely to feed your 2 stroke - it's the same concept, just not as cool as a jet, obviously, but more reliable. Or use a 2 stroke purely to drive supercharger(s). It stands to reason they'd be OK with either route if they're OK with the jet engine.
Honestly I think it might be easier to take a turbocharger compressor of the proper size, remove the turbine, and gear it to spin at the proper RPM via a belt drive.
The weight of a system like you describe wouldn't be an issue for a land speed bike, but the sheer amount of extra systems required could be an issue for reliability. I've built a jet out of a turbocharger before - you need to add an oil pump, a fuel pump, another ignition driver, another oil cooler, etc. Those additional pumps are a decent bit of extra load compared to just using a second carbureted piston engine which doesn't require them - you could even run your electrical systems off the second engine to remove that drag from the 50cc.
Yes very good point - not just about the thrust, but "displacement" as well. Or even engine type - I imagine there are classes for jet-powered vehicles that use the jet's shaft power to drive wheels as the primary vehicle drive source.
I agree. I wonder if compressed air supercharging would be legal. The compressed air might be an extra energy source but at least all gas goes through the engine
He already has a belt driven centrifugal compressor.
@@MiG21aholic it's too big.
@@IFRYRCE indeed, sorry my point was he has the belt drive and speed increase gearing already for a turbo compressor
If you are talking about making a turbo why not make a new compressor for the Rotex and cut out the middle man, you need to think of weight too. so look to calculate the volume you need at xxxx rpm then can cellulate the Rotex output rpm and from there you can calculate the size of turbine to give you the Psi and volume you need.
I love were this is going, it's completely mad.
Why not use a model aircraft turbine to drive a turbocharger or bleed air directly somehow if possible for superchargering?
How can you not love this channel?
I think you need to get a working engine first...
You could just use bottled compressed air. 250cc x15k rpm =3750L/min. At 300 bar the bottle volume would be 12.5L per minute of wide open runtime. No compressor energy needed and extremely cool charge air at whatever pressure you need. You could have a checkvalve to allow for atmospheric idle to save on air. A big steel bottle for testing and carbon fibre bottle for racing, 12L is a reasonable 700€ and 11kg.
There is a company named compressed air supercharging doing this, they have videos on youtube and a good website, so this would not be totally uncharted territory and information and parts to do this are available by the way
You shouldn't struggle with compressor at this point. You should have one which can deliver everything you ever need.
My friend once find an old lamellar compressor from junkyard and paid something like 200€ from it. We find it be in perfect shape. It had 7.5kW three phase electric motor in it and enoug air flow for your need for sure. It also had adjustable pressure from somewhere around 0.5 bars to 8bar. He used it with concrete sprayer and pressure control was so good it didn't need any storage tank or regulator.
Such thing would be pretty handy for you too, and it didn't waste much power if air was not needed. Idling power was around 1kw.
why don't you put a brusles motor?
Consider reading up on hyperbar engines, that's the route you are in to.
What a waste of PATREON MONEY another far out not realistic idea and in a couple off months hes starts back over without achieving anything that performs. Seems to keep him self busy with side quests, 4 stroke, now a diy turbine engine. Im sure im watching someone loosing his sanity beyond repair.
stop giving and quit watching take your opinions with you . -------------closed mouth -or --encourage, support, suggest, inform, teach, constructivly criticise,--or closed mouth...........
@@aricnorman8558 scammer !
Very refreshing to read constructive comments... you have a great audience Mr Stuffing
They use pounds per min to figure turbo sizing here in the states. 50cc times 15000 rpm should give you a volume that is convertible to kilos of air, then look for a turbo that provides the multiple you're looking for.
With the 4 bars that would be about 3,75kg /8 pounds per min but there is short circuiting in a two stroke so it coulb be quite a bit more.
Just make a full on turbo jet and steel a little bleed air to boost your 2stroke
Great idea!
Maybe add a drive by wire throttle body for boost diversion?
You need ems!
You are absolutely nuts in a very entertaining and in completely offensive way. That is some achievement - great work!
A roots charger + turbo combination should solve all your problems, shouldn't it? I do like the idea of using a jet though... that's absolutely mad.
AFTERFUCKINGBURNER?! LOL
I’ve been thinking for a while since you’ve been talking about what to do with the excess air from the pro charger… how about dumping the excess air right to the exhaust side of the engine to create a scavenging effect on the engine?
So you are making a hyperbar turbocharger like the V8X SACM the Leclerc tank uses.
This video could have been a whiteboard... but I'm glad it wasn't. Lol!
It is now confirmed: You are a crazy person
Robert Maddox... The world needs to see the two of you guys get together on a project!!!!
Yah that would be fun!!
Brilliant, I suggest you size the compressor of the turbo large enough to supply the 2 stroke engine and the turbojet system. Eliminate the weight, drag and complexity of the AMR supercharger. The only use of the AMR supercharger would be to ignite the turbojet system, I am sure there could be other ways to get it spinning. What do airplane turbojet engines use to start? I don't get 'stupid', but I question 'economically viable'. I understand that cost of operation is not the challenge here, so I think you are dreaming up a winning combo and I love watching you build these crazy things.
OOO this is exciting! I made a turbo jet with a friend many years ago:
ua-cam.com/video/kKptM8cS9n8/v-deo.html
Is there something to be said for just making a turbo jet (without the rotrex), just a normal turbo based jet engine, then bleed off a smal portion of the air from the compressor for the piston engine. It might be simpler to control, just fueling to alter to vary the pressure. The piston engine changing speed as you go through the gears will make controlling the boost more complex with the rotrex involved.
Awesome work though, take my suggestion with a pinch of salt. Your idea is far more credible as you have the energy and know how to see it through.
Really enjoying the videos
Check out the 1949 Napier Nomad, it had an axial flow turbo charger.
if i understand you correctly. your goal here is to ultimately end up with enough airflow to make 4 bars of pressure at the engine inlet? if thats so. Then i think a better option is a compound turbo setup (not to be confused with turbo compounding) a turbo jet sounds alot cooler thoug. but maybe you can take subarus wrc antilag system and combine that with a compound turbo setup?
I think he's lost it.
Alex, great channel, great work. here's a concept you might want to research. Electric supercharger, There are a few youtube videos out. The blower is driven by an electric rc motor on a separate circuit and not driven by crank rpm
Thought the exact same thing but maybe not allowed?
Weight becomes the issue then. Extra batteries. There's a reason electric supercharging hasn't taken off.
You can't get out more power than you put in. For an electric blower to produce 1hp, it's going to take more than 1hp to drive it due to the inefficiencies of the conversion from electrical to mechanical energy. If it was a feasible idea, manufacturers would be using them in current engines.
@@EddieTheH For some reason, people keep saying that for land speed records weight doesn't matter much? Maybe cuz they have already accelerated when they hit the measured distance? In some classes it may even be benefitial to be "heavy" for added traction on the salt, it seems. Not my words, just what I feel like I have heard from time to time.
That's what he's building towards and whether it happens or not we don't know yet, but that's the goal and framework.
Electric driven compressor is not the solution, the problem is still the design of the comp wheel which does not match the air consumption of the engine.
Your SO FAR from what this channel is about, your going to LOSE IT!! ..It's SUPPOSED to be anout building a 50cc LAND SPEED RACING BIKE!!!!!!!!!!🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬
Also, with a Centrifugal Supercharger, you can tune with pulley combinations EXTERNALLY and it's boost pressure will rise with it's input RPM, so that you can pulley 'tune it' to start boosting AFTER PEAK TORQUE while pulling Timing to match. It will still boost in the lower RPM ranges, but you can set it with pulley sizes to only make BIG BOOST after peak torque to keep things safe, such as 0.25 - 0.5 BAR under 8,000 RPM, then have it reach 1 BAR+ when it's over 10,000 RPM and AFTER peak TQ has been reached, in order to keep cylinder pressure in check.
I want to see this idea come to fruition
I think you would be better off modifying the rotorex compressor housing and wheel
To change the map
Maybe talk to pro turbo in Finland
Right...Let's take something simple and make it even more complicated and get even more flow than the initial supercharged set up. The turbo jet will flow 5 times the air = more surge? JUST BLEED THE AIR AND AVOID THE SURGE FROM THE ORIGINAL SET UP. THATS WHAT A BLOW OFF DOES ANYWAY.
This project gone take Years , upcoming issues ,intake ,detonation ,exhaust-timing/chain-drive , piston-ring , crankshaft-seals ,big-end bearing , injection . Or am I thinking wrong?
Hi Alex, I am concerned you are perhaps overthinking all of this or something else is going on here.
Maybe slow down and reaccess what your aim is.
I say that as I am confused after watching this video and not sure what the goal is any more.
Is it the most powerful Two Stroke (HP/CC) or the most powerful 50cc Engine?
You mentioned avoiding inefficiency, my definition of inefficiency relates to unnecessary complexity.
For either/both of these I honestly can't see why you need 4-5 BAR to achieve either of those goals as 1.5 BAR would do the trick.
At that, you only need to control the Air Volume, and that is doable with this Rotrex.
As I said earlier, it all comes back to what you want to, ultimately, achieve/build.
Take Care of yourself
Pete