The hardest thing for Disney/Lucasfilm to figure out about Star Wars is actually quite simple.
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- Опубліковано 27 вер 2024
- In this video I discuss what makes a great villain and if too many redeemed characters is a problem in Star Wars.
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How ironic when Deborah Chow said she was inspired by the Obi-Wan novel by John Jackson Miller, yet she never took notes from it.
The irony is delicious
Maybe she was inspired by its existence lmao
It was a surface level inspiration.
"We have no source material to draw from!"
No, it was inspired by Stuart Beattie. Fun fact, Darth Maul was supposed to be the big bad guy. Glad that didn’t happen; Solo and Rebels completed his story.
I think a more introspective Kenobi series would have been absolutely amazing. I envision something that follows Obi-Wan surviving on Tatooine, and follows Vader on his various missions for the Empire in parallel, while the show periodically steps into flashbacks that also parallel what they’re respectively doing.
The focus would be on comparing their lives post-Mustafar and the choices/worldviews that led them to that point. Themes could include reconciling guilt over the past, service vs servitude, resolving conflict, reflection vs rumination, etc.
In the prequels they used stunt blades then added the saber effect with computers. In Kenobi they used pixel sabers. The LEDs when recorded produce a blade effect to the pc edited one. Its what created the glow effect. The thing is Disney pixel blades kinda suck. If they used a good neopixel lightsaber the effect wouldve looked far better.
The downside of neopixel and similar designs is that constant hard contacts during the choreography (run repeatedly for multiple takes) has a higher risk of damage to the LEDs. This can produce dead spots in the lighting effect.
The shows also (so far, at least) don't need any of the flashier blade effects. They just need a single solid color and possibly a few basic effects (like ignition and pulse). So they would want to use a different design from neopixel, focused on how the props are used and abused for filming as opposed to cosplay.
Lightsabers have just looked off since Disney. The tip is too rounded, the length and coloured inconsistent, and they looks exactly like a neopixel or proffie saber on camera with no added effects.
I like the way they did it previously with a metal stunt blade and the lightsaber being added in later. With the new sabers the blades don’t blend or slow to reflect blasted shots etc. the blade used to be light in the sense that it looked slow down in super quick motion, now it’s not there anymore….just a light tube.
@empac8631 yeah, it used to look like light locking together, and it still does in the animated shows, but in live action they bounce and it's just weird.
@JoRoq1 exactly. As a collector I love my neopixel lightsabers, but when I watch Star Wars anything I want to see the best looking lightsabers and for that they need to go back to how the prequels did them.
It's a problem that when you're watching Star Wars, the lightsabers literally look like a fan sword fight on UA-cam. It makes them look like glow sticks.
The prequels really got the lightsabers perfect. The lack of glow makes them look more unnatural and unique
I think Ahsoka kind of harms a Vong storyline, since a big part of their story is that they've been traveling for thousands of years. But now you can just pop over to the next galaxy
God, I'd _despise_ it if Filoni came within a million light-years of the Vong, especially with his pet waifu character.
One of the main reason we’ve been continuously getting lackluster Star Wars stories at best is because the people in the studios are not interested; They openly or otherwise dislike or aren’t interested in Star Wars and keep bringing in directors who have this open dislike or apathy for Star Wars. So far they still haven’t brought in a director who remotely likes Star Wars. That alone will be a breath of fresh air on its own
I feel like Favreau genuinely likes the property, or at least has tremendous respect for it.
Honestly, Andor did NOT feel like Star Wars to me, but it wasn’t due to a lack of lightsabres or spectacle, it was more to do with the tone and the themes.
That said, judged as a show on its own merit, it was REALLY good, and I liked it a LOT. It’s easily (imo) the best thing Disney has done with the property (though of course that’s a low bar and makes it seem as if I am damning the show with faint praise, which is not my intention).
I think the answer is... both.. You need good writing.. but it also needs to FEEL like Star Wars.
You can have variation, but if you just want sci-fi stuff that isn't Star Wars-ey.. then why tell it under the Star Wars IP?
For bait.
💯
If it's a good story that can fit within Star Wars then why not tell it in the SW universe
@@istari0 Exactly. Feeling like "Star Wars" should be a priority for things directly connected to the main saga storyline (like Rogue One and Kenobi), but purely side stories (like Andor and The Mandalorian) can have the freedom to explore different aspects and approaches.
For BRAND APPEAL. That's the _real_ answer.
I think it’s treating characters and factions/groups like plot devices rather than how they should exist in the universe. This is my biggest issue with how the Mandalorians are treated in Mando season 3. They lacked the complexity that the Mando factions should have had at that point. There should straight up be Mandos who want Bo Katan unalived because of her past actions (including giving up the darksaber to Gideon). Stop using individual characters and groups as a means to move the plot forward. Ask yourself, how would things naturally take place in this galaxy between these variables? Stop trying to come up with a point in the story you want and trying to rush things together.
THIS
There should have been a Mandalorian Civil War between Din’s group and Bo’s group
@@chasehedges6775 I think Din should have been the new Mandalore since he has a knack for diplomacy and badassery in the first two seasons. He’d perfectly fit the archetype of a reluctant ruler. I totally thought they were setting that up when he got the dark saber.
But this is Dave Filoni. Besides Ahsoka, he doesn’t plan things out ahead of time, just on a sloppiness level.
@@doolicious 💯👍
Apparently, the lightsabers nowadays are actually light sticks. In previous Star Wars films there were just sticks and the light and other effects were added after. It seems like with this new tech the CGI artists aren't doing much to lightsabers and just leaving them as is.
They are still covering the lightsaber blades with CGI. Even with tiny LEDs, the high-definition digital cameras and theater/tv screens would show distinctions in the light sources (similar to how a filmed raw tv screen looks). The LEDs do well to provide the surrounding lighting effects, but still need to be visually covered over to look like a solid energy mass.
As another example, look at the Tesseract in the Marvel movies. The real, physical device was a clear cube with a set of bright lights inside, then painted over with CGI to look like it does on screen in post.
Possibly worst of all, is that they bounce on stormtroopers and other lightsabers instead of sticking like they would in the films.
That's on of the big things that make them look off to me. That and that you can see they are a tube. Especially in Kenobi
Even though the CGI the lightsabers, the glow in the surrounding area gives away to the audience that they're just glow sticks. It messes with the immersion
I love Andor, it's the best Disney had to offer for me. Rogue One was pretty awesome too
I agree. Part of the reason why I love them so much is ironically because I was going into them very pessimistically, making their high quality even more noticeable.
Saber problem seems to be they using glowsticks, and add a little glow, where earlier they really put some work into it that made the sabers flicker and look alive..
Correct. They cast too much ambient light on the actors and sets, Obi's blue is too blue and dark, the original was a very light blue. The light is too even and needs a rougher organic flicker. Star Wars was always about the details, these marxist/activists making these now just don't care, they are merely vehicles to sell the 'message'.
For all of their issues, I think the sequels nailed the lightsabers. They weren't oversaturated like what we see nowadays, yet still had an environmental glow to them. I know his was unstable, but they way they did Kylo's was sick lol
@@jameslikesit I much prefer the prequels. The glow is too much even in the sequel movies. They look like glow sticks. It was much better when they didn't really emit colored light
My problem with Andor is the same problem I had with Solo, disney likes doing prequels too much! Andor was a good character in Rogue One, but not this great character that deserved a TV Series! The problem with prequels is that sometimes the people that make them create parts that don't fit with the future of the character! Han Solo is this cocky guy that thinks so highly of himself and his only concern is his reputation and Chewbacca, I'm supposed to believe that the guy in Solo fits that. Look at what they did with Boba Fett! There are a lot of good characters in the Star Wars canon, but Disney keeps making a lot of cheap bootlegs to replace stablished characters! Don't forget about all the ret-conning that "writers", "producers" and "directors" love to do!
Obi-Wan acting on his own saving Sabine in The Cline Wars was the Obi-Wan storyI wanted to see in live action. ENERGY, Humor, Sarcasm, Quips, that Episode II attitude. Would’ve been awesome to have temporarily enlisted the help of that 501st trooper.
Knights of the Old Republic is a video game and it was more in depth than all of these shows and movies.
Well, that was back when Lucasfilm hired people based on their merits and how well they thought they could do, and when they cared about Star Wars. They don't care about it anymore, lol.
@saberiandream316 it wasn't even lucasflim. It was LucasArts who created with passion rather data sheet.
@@bloodysimile4893 Bioware wrote the story. Lucasarts just provided consultation on the aliens, creatures, and planets.
The 12 parsecs Han mentions ANH does refer to distance. As explained in the Solo trilogy from the EU, the Kessel run involved navigating past large group of black holes. Most shop captains took fairly conservative routes staying back from the Black holes and thus increasing their distance traveled. Han, on the other hand, flew the Falcon very close the Black holes and thus completed the run in less than 12 parsecs.
I've never seen the Solo movie, so I can't comment on how they explained it. I would definitely recommend the EU trilogy, having read it several times, because it tells a great back story for Han.
The thing is in Star Wars, or A New Hope if you prefer, the look on Obi WAN’s face after Han says that tells you that he immediately knows Han is lying, which makes sense. He just doesn’t care.
Who else would like to See Thor do a Long form video once a week or so. Like Podcast level, 2 hours of talking about Star Wars and other IPs?
I can't get through two hour podcasts I tried but man I think it's just too much, but that's me.
@@Deuteromis For me it really depends on the topic, I do 3 to 4 hours without realizing it and have downed 6-8 hour ones on long days or art or travel.
With the lightsabers looking weird, yeah I agree. Disney has gotten their look right a few times (the lightsabers look really dang good in TFA and when Luke rescues Grogu), but they usually look short and the colors are washed out. I like to think lightsabers are bright, loud, and have vibrant colors. But there are genuinely times when I can’t tell if a saber blade is supposed to be orange or red and blue or white.
I haven't watched Andor, so I don't know what might lead folks to think it's not "Star Wars". However, if you go to a restaurant that historically served great burgers and you instead get a plate of excellent hamburger steak, you might be a bit confused (even annoyed), regardless of how good the hamburger steak is. You might point out that hamburger is still the main dish, and that it's excellent, but the two are still different experiences. I think that mixing it up isn't a bad thing, but it's understandable that some might feel a bit off-put by the shift, depending on their expectations.
Andor not feeling "Star Wars" is a legitimate thing, but also depends on what it is that makes "Star Wars" for you. There are no Jedi and no epic action battle pieces. Andor brings in difficult moral shades of gray rather than outright Good vs. Evil, to explore what it takes for a person to turn against their beliefs (engaging in espionage, sabotage, theft, assault, murder, and lies) and how far are they willing to go to achieve their goals. The audience is left to consider whether the ends are justifying the means, and that not all the "Bad guys" are necessarily fully "Bad".
Regarding the lightsabers, they’ve been using neopixel blades for a while now, which is tech that became available in the saber collectible community maybe 8 to 10 years ago. It’s awesome for collectors, choreography, etc., but definitely not on par for theatrical productions. They still do effects in post, but apparently not enough.
Hey Thor! What's your opinion on the First Order? I think the only good thing in the sequels was the First Order in The Force Awakens. It was similar to the Empire, so people still recognized stormtroopers, TIE Fighters, Star Destroyers, etc and could relive the OG triology in a new way. In my opinion it was reasonable in-universe that a new "empire" will rise after the New Republic, and as once you said, this is a cycle, there will always be good guys ruling, then an evil empire ruling, Star Wars history repeats itself. Then in The Last Jedi, everything changed, the First Order used awful tactics, got a dreadnought shot down by some old bombers, General Hux turned into a joke, rather than a determined strong leader, the whole Snoke thing was awful. The Rise Of Skywalker made it much worse with Hux being the "spy", and the First Order just suddently turned into the Last Order because they said so, and then they made a star destroyer that was bigger and stronger, just to launch them into a cool space battle with horses and horrible tactics, the once First Order turned into laughable bad guys that only existed to make the good guys win. What do you think?
As for the low Andor viewership: There are two kinds of entertainment.
First, there’s bowling night; happens every Thursday, and it wouldn’t be bowling night without all the shenanigans you and your friends get up to.
Then, there’s the exotic vacation; an opportunity you might only experience once or twice in your life, but that’s okay - better, even. The experience sticks with you for the rest of your life, and you always remember it fondly.
Andor is the latter of the two.
Imagine it’s both aesthetically appealing and well written 🤯🤯 seems like a no brainer for Disney. Weird it’s one or the other versus two sides of the same coin!
Time dilation doesn’t happen because they don’t travel at relativistic velocities. Hyperspace allows ships to shortcut between the folds of spacetime without any actual acceleration, “lightspeed” is a slang term.
Regards the lightsabers i think it's cause they actually use glowing sticks now, it's just one light-stick now, and the visual effects department don't seem to be actually adding in the visual on the light for the "lightsaber" much. It's like they're just relying solely on the light-stick the actors are given to use now.
I agree about these Disney+ starwars shows lacking real substance. Remember that scene where Luke heads to the garage part of the homestead in ANH checking for the Droids, and you hear that little "Hope" starwars theme tune, it's just very subtle. It feels exciting abit, i want these shows (and the movies) to get back to the exact same feel that little part in ANH with that music gave me. That's *Star Wars* to me; it's hard to explain in words, but i miss that feeling.
My main issue with Star Wars is that when Disney decides to focus on classic Star Wars, they fumble the bag mostly due to it not having good writing or substance but when they focus on non-classic Star Wars, they actually put some effort into it.
It makes me a bit mad at the non-classic stuff they do cause they clearly know how to do it right but they keep letting down the fans like me who want both the spectacle and the substance for no reason (and we're stuck waiting for them to try again on vain).
The Yuuzahn Vong would be PERFECT!
No. Just no. The Vong are a classic example of grimderp being mistaken for depth, and overcompensation of supposedly "kiddy" franchise.
Maybe we need a little dark, tbh.
Star Wars is everyone, not just kids, man.
The Grysk don't seem as intimidating as the Yuuzhan Vong.
I stopped reading thr novels when they introduced the Vong. For me that's when they jumped the shark. If they were going to introduce the Vong, I think they need a serious overhaul.
I'd keep their assault on just one system and not make them from another galaxy. Just make them from a planet that used to be owned by a mega corporation that used it as a toxic dumping ground to bypass regulations. Originally the planet was something like Pandora where the lifeforms could connect to one another and the entire planet mutated and they want revenge on the corporation.
I think if Andor has some force users in it, most of those nay-sayers would end up digging it to some degree. I think it's short-sightedness that keeps them from seeing the deeper themes that it wrestles with in SW even though it also draws from other sci-fi in various ways as well.
If TG had made Kenobi...now that is something I need a 'Sliders' portal to go check out...
I find it odd everyone says Andor is so well written, but no one ever quotes the show or names of the characters?
I could quote it and name all the characters but what’s the point? Andor is fantastically written and is of great quality in every aspect. That’s all that needs to be said about it. There’s been countless breakdowns of it and its brilliance as well.
@@oXRaptorzXo I just find it odd, I didn't critique the show Im sorry I triggered your feelings. But yet you left no quote only backing up what I said. Anyone from my father to random strangers could quote the OT. The force is my ally, and a powerful ally it is. Do or do not there is try. Like my father before me, Luke, use the force. I don't disagree it was well written, it's just forgettable.
@@jonmorgan7621 I can quote it for days. “One way out.” “What have I sacrificed? Everything!” “Fight the Empire!” And many many more. The thing is, while I named the basic quotes, but of the lines in Andor are pretty complex and while they are memorable the exact wording isn’t.
Good writing makes sense. I don't think it's too much to ask that people being run through the gut or chest with a lightsaber be at least critically injured if not killed. You can create a live action SW story with lots of spectacle and geared towards kids that doesn't insult anyone's intelligence. In fact, Disney can look with the best of its own or Pixar's animated films to see that (if well written) even young children are quite capable of understanding and appreciating complex themes and situations.
Absolutely… and because the depth of stories these shows feel like nothing happens from episode to episode… if you edit a big pile of nothing into 8 small piles of nothing… it feels like even more nothing… does that makes any sense?
Hey Thor...
I am one of the admitted few who liked the Kenobi show. There was a lot of promise that they certainly missed out on, and a lot of stuff that they didn't need. Firstly, Reva could have been a good villain if they didn't tie her backstory into some kind of revenge hunt on Vader. Had she just been a mean-ass Inquisitor, it would have been fine. I don't need her backstory. Another missed opportunity that they did set up is Luke showing his first Force usage. Owen told Obi Wan that he didn't care how Luke was doing, he wanted to know if he was "showing". I think it would have been a perfect time for Luke to use his first Force power (Force speed) when he was running from Reva. He would have been so scared, he wouldn't have even realized how fast he was running... And if Flea made it more evident that they were just toying with, and trying to horrify Leia (being bullies) when they "couldn't catch her"... Those small adjustments, along with Owen shooting Reva in the head at the end, would have made the story a good one. What do you think?
I get that you like it, and that's fine. But what you're essentially saying is: it would have been good if it were better. Not to mention that, for many that didn't like the show (including me), there many more and worse problems than just those
@@SuicV You must fall into that Non-Star Wars Andor camp... that's fine if you like being bored to death with no action and no SW stuff. Good for you bro!
@@JoeVulgamoreAuthor It says a lot that you decided to try and attack me in an unrelated topic, based on a random assumption, and even more so considering I was stating my opinion in a non-confrontative manner
@@SuicV I'm sorry you felt attacked. You were not. Had I attacked you, it would be quite evident and easily recognized. In fact, it was YOU who came on here judging my opinion. You made no attempt to start a discussion. You flat out ragged my opinion. If you can't handle a mild response such as I provided to you, in relation to how you answered me, then your skin is very thin and you have a victim mentality.
1. Hire competent, creative writers who know and appreciate the Star Wars lore.
2. Don't let the clueless management at Disney remove all of these writer's creative ideas.
Andor's new creative direction in terms of tone, intrigue, and pacing, would have been received quite well if fans had also been getting good or even "OK" traditional Star Wars. Lacking the latter, many fans had no patience to give a fair chance to former. I'll add that Andor would more likely have broken through if it had been at least a little more action oriented with faster pacing. A "slow burn" is OK, but requires a more suspenseful plot, not just a slowly unfolding plot. There was not enough suspense to justify the slowness of the burn, so to speak. The same basic story, but faster pace with more twists and turns and a bit more action and some comic relief likely would have broken through to the general fan audience. I say this as one who liked Andor a lot -- certainly by far the best Disney Star Wars live action TV show (including Mando seasons 1&2). But it could have been better.
The Obi-Wan show was what broke my son, he tapped out, he won't watch any Disney Star Wars content now. I'm done too. We are not coming back, not even bothering to hate watch stuff. The new light up saber props they use for filming are terrible. The light effect caused issues with cameras for that Obi-Wan Vader fight so they had to darken the whole scene. As the light sabers are fragile the actors can't go as hard at it either which makes the fights feel off. Anakin vs Ahsoka in TWBW can you clearly see Hayden pulling his swings back a little, partly because his timing was so much better but also so he doesn't break the prop. They need to go back to how they did it in the PT, green metal rods out of the hilt and add the light saber affect in post. I vividly remember seeing Hayden straitening out one of his props in the ROTS BTS footage because he'd hit so hard with it, it had bent.
The lightsabers, Im pretty sure they are now using the dueling grade sabers cosplayers buy and "fight" with, and they dont do a lot of VFX over the top of them. You can actually see the blades flex when they hit each other.
I think we covered the lightsabers in a chat once. They have switched to onset LED blades and I want to say additionally effect them post. The Roto-Scope technique is no longer used.
PRISM's Star Wars fan stories are amazing. The Kenobi stuff is blowing my mind.
Hey Thor, Jedi: Fallen Order and Jedi: Survivor (given it's a game series) is both spectacle and substance that does feel like Star Wars. At least for Disney era it's better than what they're doing with the shows.
Anyway, when you talking about Star Wars EU more and Legacy Comics?
Mandalorian S1 and S2, Andor and Rogue one have been good but that’s it.
Ahsoka I thought was good personally.
You're excluded the animated shows why exactly?
@@ct-1177 Perhaps because Filoni was never as great as legions of deluded fanboys think he is.
@@saberiandream316 I can sense the disrespect to me
Number 1! Number 1!!!
For me it is sort of a question mark.
The first point it needs... Is to be written well.
The EU has its good books and its bad books... Everyone remembers the good ones and then pretends the bad books do not exist.
A sort of self pruning fandom where profits and quality marks what is allowed to grow and what is allowed to die.
Was it messy? Yes, but it worked.
As for making it feel Star Wars... It both feels rather broad and yet simple.
Good verse Evil at its basics. Then expand for whatever theme or idea.
Bad Batch felt like Star Wars to me even if 'in the long run' it meant nothing.
It had no Jedi, few important space battles, and even if some parts felt odd... It was generally accepted as a good thing.
It told a tale different than the originals, the prequels, or some of the other content, but it felt right and well written.
Rebels was a mixed bag... As some of it felt good and other bits felt really off.
So despite it having most of the Star Wars bits, lightsabers, good vs evil, rebels verse Empire... I can see why some people didn't agree with it.
As for the sequels... It was worse than nothing.
You can see that by the lack of anything past it.
No books, no comics, no games, no tv shows... It is a black hole that exists and consumes everything that reaches that point in time.
Why? Because nobody can make anything from it even if it gets retcon out of existence.
Even the fandom focused on the second movie and simply writing a new third movie and a new ending... Rather than write past that event horizon.
I live in the balkans, and Lucas SW felt universal and not location based, whereas Disney SW FEELS like it is set in the US, if that makes sense. I no longer see the story, but the writers.
I think the reason why the Disney Plus lightsabers look off compared to the movie ones is because they use physical blades with LED lights rather than colored metal poles that they used in the movies. The metal poles were drawn over and animated in post to create the lightsaber effect and could be probably be tweaked to make things look more natural as needed. This is also probably why the lighting and blade length look off in some scenes using the LED ones, they're just using what's actually in the footage, and if it looks off based on the perspective of the camera or for any other reason, there's not much that can be done.
The biggest criticism I have of Star Wars television is that I can always tell its a set. For a company like Disney and a pop culture phenomenon like Star Wars. This is simply unforgivable.
It totally takes you out of the Star Wars world.
Especially given the huge costs of these productions, it's baffling that they're wasting so much resources on something that looks subpar, especially when you compare it to cable sci-fi shows like Stargate, and you realize they could make do with less and still look awesome.
Hey Thor, what do you think about the order in which star wars content is released, i very much believe that if things were released more chronologically then far more stories would have satisfying character arcs and conclusions. E.g - andor season 1&2 before rogue one would make Cassian's death a much better scene, TCW before ROTS would make Anakin's turn far more heartbreaking and the clones "betrayal" for more emotional. pretty much all star wars is told out of order and i think it very much hurts to potential of the stories like the new republic being destroyed, THEN getting NR content, Dooku and Grievous being killed in ROTS, THEN TCW comes out to develop them so we know why its such a big deal they die etc. ofc some things would need to be changed like palpatine's reveal in ep 3 but i just wanted to hear ur thoughts.
The fans saying that Andor was dull......are the same fans who's attention span is that of 15 garbage YT or Tik Tok videos. It's obvious that KK was on vacation during Andor production and the writers, producers, directors, and actors actually had talent.
We got lightsabers and Force usage in Ahsoka but the results were mostly awful excepting the role of Baylan and his apprentice.
We also got lightsabers and Force usage in Obi Wan......that no one really wanted, and it broke canon of DV and OWK having faced each other between ROTS and ANH. Add in the ridiculousness of a young Leia......a terrible bad person who was very miscast and to yell her lines and OWK show was trash....excepting Ewan who always gives it his all on the screen.
Andor is the only SW series I have rewatched and it's even better the second time around. Full stop.
I agree with you that something more introspective would have been great. I would have liked to see Obi Wan struggle with his conscience about what happened to Anakin, Padme, losing Satine and the failures of the Jedi. All while watching over Luke from afar.
At the end of the day, Star Wars is an action and adventure series. It doesn't matter how well written the show is or how introspective it's characters are. If there is no action and adventure, people don't really care to watch it.
Now if we can get good writing mixed in with the lightsaber duels and gun battles, then you're sitting on a gold mine.
The biggest thing that Lucasfilm needs to learn is how to write moral complexities like how Andor and Rogue One did. Dawn of the Jedi would be the perfect outlet for such things
Next thing you'll know, they'll botch it up, don't get your hopes up.
@@mazkeraid4039 I’m cautiously optimistic, but I’m also prepared to be disappointed
We already have the perfect story from Jon Ostrander. That will always be Dawn of the Jedi to me, not Lucasfilm's crap to try and bury the EU.
@@saberiandream316 I’ve not read those books yet
I think the Grysk and whatever theyre supposedly planning in the 2nd new galaxy might be a sort of canon version of the Vong.. maybe setting something up for the post sequel era
I'm okay with them taking inspiration from the Vong when adapting the Grysk into Disney Star Wars stories. I'd also prefer that if Filoni, who's been asking to do something with the Vong for _years_ (I cringe at the very thought), ever does, that it's simply with the Grysk and NOT the Vong. He'd rewrite them to be what HE wants and change them completely, then justify that by claiming George Lucas _told_ him to do it, lol, what a pathetic little man he is.
Hey Thor,
Fan of the channel, and long time follower of the old EU. I was willing to give Disney a shot but I feel they’ve seriously dropped the ball with the SW IP. What’s worse is that there has been no new additions to the old EU as a result.
I always felt that it would have been wiser to fit the new canon AROUND the old EU rather than stamping it out so as to not alienate fans such as myself that had a vested interest in the ongoing stories of the old EU. Do you believe this could have worked with careful writing and dedicated lore specialists steering the ship? Would this have been more profitable? What do you think needs to happen for Disney to concede and start green lighting new stories in the old EU (novels)?
With respect to the lightsabers looking different under Disney vs George Lucas..
The obvious answer is that theyre using neopixel/illuminated/light up sabers vs dowels wrapped in film tape from the OT, or the aluminum rods wrapped in film tape from the PT that get mocked up in post-production.
That being said, im so torn. I like that the Disney sabers have more "real world" illumination, the photorealism of using actual practical light cannot be beat by CGI.
But i think thats the problem. Its almost "too real". You can tell that its basically a light up plastic stick under there now.
whereas before, despite them not looking "photorealistic," lightsabers felt and looked like some almost "magical" or "impossible" weapon. They felt like they looked like a combination of a beam of plasma that has heat and power behind it, a ray of light that looked and moved almost like it was weightless (i know they were actually "heavy" in canon) and almost "unnatural" in the way that it didnt reflect its own light to the degree it should... like it was something thats incompatible with the laws of nature or physics.
I dont know if i agree with the characterization the OP made saying they feel "stiff" - because the blades in the OT and PT were, i think, just as "unyielding" in their rigidness. Compare it to animation, where it almost looks like the sabers "bend" as theyre moving (Maul vs Ahsoka in CW s7 was the most "bendy" imo) - which is a whole other debate. But, i think its more that they just look.... More real now. And i like how it looks practically. The lighting IS beautiful. But i dont like it because its not how they "should" look to me. They shouldnt look real. They should look like the impossibility that they actually are "made real".
Thats my take. Hope it made sense or even maybe helps people put their finger on why they "dont like them" - even if we dont agree!
Hey, Thor.
Do you think the Sequels could have worked better if they took place at least a hundred years after the OT? And we get a final holocron/segment in episode 7 of the original cast doing one final hurrah that inspires the new characters and gives them some sort of critical information.
"It is a tale Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury Signifying nothing."
Think Disney Star Wars lack humor and optimism, as in "default state" Rey have no humor nor is she optimistic, she only is, and Luke is depressed. Have not seen Obi-Wan, but my understanding is that he is miserable, and Andor is a dystopi. Is there any major character that is genuine happy as "default state" ?
I agree that things ought to ”feel like” star wars. I can also agree that SW is generally a kids show/marketed to young viewers. But what does “meant for kids” actually mean?
Cause you can take ATLA, or many other shounen manga and say they are geared towards young (male) audiences. Even clone wars is a “kids show”
But none of these examples make a mockery of story telling or compelling characters. Now yes many mangas have flaws and not all of clone wars/rebels was perfect. But the belief in the audience to understand the story, learn the morals/lessons, yet still be entertaining is the crux of it all.
SW is space opera/fantasy, it needs that mystical element. But that doesnt mean it has to water down the story, butcher legacy characters, or destroy the continuity that it comes from-all to sell a “story” that isnt entertaining or coherent.
I do want lightsaber clashes, i do want laser gun fights and big ships and high stakes good vs evil. But i also want all of that thru characters that i can respect love and see grow.
Kids shows and character are beloved by their target audiences not merely for the “cool” aspect, but because their characters resonate with the audience the growth and attachment is so important.
That comes from good story writing. And right there is where all of this needs to circle back to.
Balance should’ve lasted longer. I think TROS should have done better at explaining things like that. Like they could’ve made it that Rey was protecting the balance Anakin already brought instead of making her bring balance again. Though I guess by TFA that doesn’t work since the Empi- I mean First Order took control of the galaxy. So, I guess balance was kind of doomed from the start. And they could’ve explained the Holdo maneuver by saying that it only works on ships with hyperspace tractors as the technology they use to track ships through hyperspace manipulates the ship around them to be partially in that reality, or something like that. It’s not scientific at all, but in this universe where science isn’t its strong suit anyway it would at least be an in universe explanation that doesn’t contradict things from the past. It’s an easy explanation, and then it makes the new hyperspace tracking technology a strength that has weaknesses making things more interesting. As a fan, I think it’s easy to explain some of the things in the sequels but then the next movie comes along and messes that up. Balance is ruined when they should’ve stayed away from mentioning it altogether, and also should have had the First Order against the New Republic and not a broken Rebel- I mean resistance so that balance could at least be threatened but not something that is lost. It would have been cooler seeing Rey protect the balance. It would be cool knowing how the Holdo maneuver would not be used all the time. It would be cool knowing how Palpatine returned and actually having set up for it, or maybe just not bringing him back at all and doing something new and different having Kylo be the main bad guy who does not get redeemed to make him stand out as a character who was tormented by both sides but solidifies himself into the darkness because he wants to. It was clear that not deep fans of the universe wrote the sequels. Rian Id say is more of a fan, but JJ Abrams definitely was not that deep of a fan and he should never be allowed to write a script ever again. He’s a fine director and producer, as Castle Rock season 2 showed. But he cannot for the life of him make a script. Kathleen Kennedy’s idea for a rehash of the OT and yet pushing for newer characters at the neglect of the legacy characters doomed the sequels from the start. The sequels have good concepts and ideas, and I love a lot of things in them. But the potential they had were wasted and the execution was so poor.
I can get over the lightsabers coloring/glow, but how short they are irritates me every time. In the obi wan flashback training duel it looks like they are fighting with daggers.
What’s off about the lightsabers is that they’re using LED blades now and they’re doing little to no rotoscoping for the effects. That saves money and time during post, which sacrifices the quality we’re used to seeing in the movies.
Hey thor,
My theory as to why the lightsabers look off or don't look as good as the movies is that it's intentional. Disney wants the lightsaber in their shows to look more like the lightsaber props patrons can buy at their parks. To incentivize fans to buy the merchandise sabers. They even use the same ones in the shows. Both to save money on visual effects and also to have the same sabers that you can buy Represented on the screen. So fans don't buy a lightsaber and are disappointed that it doesn't look like it does in the movies. So, as real world knock off toys, they are shorter, less vibrant, and lacking the white core and casting glow.
The difference in the look of the lightsabers is in how they are made. In the movies, they were rotoscoped in. Basically painted in, then animated. In the D+ shows, they are actually using illuminated blades, then cgi enhanced. Oddly enough, the D+ stuff is more realistic in its illumination. Their light is reflected off other bodies and objects.
Also when it came to how long it takes to travel through lightspeed I think it was Kennedy who said they just let the writers decide that.
@thorskywalker The Lightsabers are too Tubular instead of Transparent. They have have the opacity too high so they look like nerf bats in glowly paint instead of a visible laser there also a lack of noise around the Lightsaber there not meant to have a pure tube of light its a modulating pulse Like when Vader light his blade in the Rebel show. It hums and the blade isnt a perfect tube to pulses
A good story is what matters most, but i do to an extent agree that the ''spectacle''; specifically lightsabers and the force is what makes Star Wars.
As great as Andor is, if you applied the same level of writing, character development and dialogue to the Kenobi series and The Book of Boba Fett, they would kind of automatically be better than Andor.
Two things that would help Star Wars. They need a more mature animated series and the live action needs to have reasonable budgets and longer seasons. I miss the days when Stargate sg-1 would have 20 episodes in a season.
Disney has it easy.. messy with non effort stories to start and give a lot of cool names from the past and a lot of saber fights.. with just that you will have all the fandom happy and salivating, what to make a good show like andor or the first/second mandalorian seasons for? its easier to use luke for a weekend with grogu, or name leia in another show, or put c3po.. people who want something good with no fanservice have to accept that sometimes along the ways will find something good.. i keep hope in the acolyte, keep rocking man, and stay safe, your videos are really good and senseful
It's so lazy, it amazes me they could be so arrogant that they hate and dismiss the low-IQ audience who keeps them in business.
Just make a Knights of the Old Republic series, but make each season focus on a different story, like how AHS is.different each season. There are so many content in that era and vastly different timelines.
People need to stop asking for this! One, it's going to take place in Disney Star Wars, not the EU, which means huge changes to accommodate the Disney Star Wars canon. Two, why do you trust these people after all of their constant screw-ups and how horribly they've managed Star Wars?
Lore! Lore! Thor, cover more lore questions!
Those saying Andor is not real Star Wars probably dont recognize Nolan's Dark Knight series because it's not Adam West doing POWs! and BAMs! in a cheap costume along with driving a 60s style batmobile😅
I don't like Andor and yeah, out of Nolan's trilogy I only liked Batman Begins. The old Adam West stuff is a bit too silly for me but I do prefer that OTT quality over the dour overbearing depressing sludge that you apparently need to score review points these days.
Hey Thor. What would you think about a small, tightly plotted Obi-Wan season 2, that perhaps involved Obi-Wan having to deal with some of the criminal element in Mos Eisley, and showed why he later told Luke about the place, "You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy"? Part of the plot could involve Obi-Wan avoiding the use of his lightsaber in order to prevent outing himself as a Jedi, so the combat scenes could finally display Jedi unarmed combat capabilities and associated force powers - something like some of the Wu Xia Chinese martial arts movies and TV shows (like "Demi-gods and Semi-devils", which you can find here on UA-cam). Maybe it could even introduce us to other types of Force users beyond Jedi and Sith - Maz Kanata seemed to indicate that there were people besides those two groups who used the Force, right? Does that sound like something you'd be interested in?
Note sure how LucasFilms decides what's successful or not. I watched Andor about 3-4 times. It was so well written and acted, it just mesmerized me. Does Disney look at figures for the release day only?
Yes, the ST was a net negative for SW, as was Kenobi. SW would be better off if they never existed. Much of the other Disney/Lucasfilm SW content has been mediocre at best and its failure to live up to the standards established early on also serves to diminish the brand. As of yet, there is no sign of things being turned around.
If anything, it looks to be getting worse with time.
I too am not a fan of the new glow stick lightsabers. While I agree with Disney that lightsabers should have some luminance, they WAY overdid the effect. The Prequels and OT's lightsabers don't light their surroundings, allowing for beautiful moody shots in the Bespin, Throne Room, and Mustafar duels. By contrast, in Kenobi's duels Vaber and Obi-Wan are colored red and blue respectively by their sabers. Personally, I thought this ruined the lighting of those scenes. Disney doesn't need to return to the old stunt sabers but they should tone down the brightness of their prop blades so they aren't so overpowering.
I ddidn't Andor bad, but overall stretched and boring. Sorry, I have to admit for me Star Wars is always about the Force. And everything other is side-story, support character asf. Star Wars not revolving around Sith and Jedi is nothing I care for. I mean, each to his/hers, but *shrug*. Just don't care about random normal folks. Other IPs do that better.
Likely an unpopular opinion but they need to bring back the spectacle and the special feel of Star Wars or just focus on the Andor fans and make Star Wars whatever that is. I've loved SW since seeing the original in 77 when I was a kid gawking up at the screen forgetting I even had popcorn due to the awe it inspired in me. They have tons of stories that could be made. Epic wars with epic Sith to put on screen but they seem to be focused on really boring side quests.
I agree that Andor was a masterpiece.
I want to see light savers, space ships with glowing exhausts, laser battles,😅 weird, non-kid oriented creatures and a gripping, non-politically motivated story.
I think the mistake is more that people are assuming Disney will make a sequel or 2nd series of anything that's successful. When what Obi Wan actually does do is show that this is not the case. As you say the viewing figures for Obi Wan were very high. And chances are a 2nd series likely would have high figures also. So why ain't they making a 2nd series? Who knows whats going on creatively at Lucasfilm. I don't think they are driven by success as much as people think. At least not to the point they are desperate to hold onto whatever works and keep doing that over and over. Plus they straight up said Obi Wan was a limited series from the start. Even though the trilogy pitch they had originally had for Obi Wan was for 3 movies. And This show was basically 30% of the 3 film story they originally had.
TBH I don't think Disney are incredibly worried about Star Wars. There is nothing that feels like they are desperately grasping for whatever works. They have been spending years greenlighting movie projects and then cancelling them. They apparently feel they can afford to be picky with the projects.
I really think because they have access to Disney's banks, Lucasfilm is doing what they have for over ten years now, which is focusing on what THEY want to do and not what WE as the fans want them to do. Shit, that Rey's coming back definitively showcases that, as merchandising sales for the sequel trilogy _were not good,_ they weren't good at all, and yet she's coming back for some reason, because Lucasfilm is THAT invested in her for who knows what reason. Meanwhile, EU fans have been reduced to begging for scraps and still get very little after ten years. Which is a terrible abuse of some of the most loyal Star Wars fans in the community's history. A shame all around.
Start Wars should follow the Legend of Zelda approach. Similar conflict loosely connected one main hero per era.
Wasn't the Tarentatek also something that basically drained and killed Force users? Aren't the Levelers basically the same thing but less Rancor-like? lol
Btw my favorite things in Star Wars at this point are probably KOTOR, The Force Unleashed, then episode 3 and The Clone Wars... as you can probably tell, I quite like the spectacle... but also depth. I mean, The Mandlorian Wars should be a series or movie trilogy that basically just ends with Revan finding the Star Forge map and going off to do his own thing. Obviously, not quite the end. Idr how the war ended... but like, the main purpose is to add some spectacular depth to the lore, show some cool action, and re-canonize Revan fully. Not just name a ship after him. Sort of like the most important Easter egg of all time. I don't even think he should be named. And at the time, I think Malak had his jaw. So basically, the mask will be the only clue. They were even Jedi at the time, so no red lightsabers. Basically a "true fans only" moment. But also an important setup for another trilogy or something, potentially... it's sort of like the Thanos scene in Avengers 1... it'll only matter if and when we get to Infinity War... but it'll be cool af for the fans anyway.
You like depth, but TCW dumbs down the EU it touches, and because of Filoni, they were adding EU at a far more rapid rate than George Lucas ever did for his movies, and it hurt the EU because the EU was FORCED to accommodate those changes.
Agreed. I felt that Obi-Wan Kenobi, the sow, was too much Star Wars an not enough Obi-Wan. Kinda like how Captain America: Civil War was basically an Avengers movie more than it was a Captain America movie.
Not sure if that’s quite the comparison I would make. Captain America: Civil War is one of my favourite MCU films and a great event film to kick off Phase 3. Obi-Wan Kenobi I thought was pretty naff relying on age old Disney/Star Wars cliches that have become stale at this point and the fact that Kenobi had to rescue child Leia *twice* over the course of the show shows that there wasn’t enough story to fill six episodes.
@@theanonymouscritic1710 I'm definitely not comparing the quality of Kenobi and Civil War. I just think they are both mis-branded. Civil War was largely about Iron Man and advanced his story, as well as introducing Spider-Man and Black Panther, both on Iron Man's team. There was so much going on that didn't really pertain to Captain America's story that I just felt it should have been an Avengers movie. It's still one of my favorites.
In Kenobi, I thought it focused too much on stuff pertaining to the Skywalker Saga. I think it should have focused on Obi-Wan living on Tatooine. It could have shown things like him mourning Anakin's loss at Shmi's grave begging forgiveness that he failed her. It could have shown him establishing his life in the hut we see him living in in A New Hope. It could have featured Qui-Gon as a Force ghost. I tihnk the physical conflict in the show could have been something a little more...local. Maybe have A'Sharad Hett back on Tatooine as a Tusken Warlord and he's waging war on another force on Tatooine. Obi-Wan manages to somehow get involved. Something more about Obi-Wan and not about the over-arching story.
I'm with you on Civil War though. One of my favs!
Hey Thor, I get that there are people who don't like midichlorions, saying they apparently break the universe and ruin the force. Some say they don't like the idea that not everyone can use the Force and that it all it should take is for you to believe in it. I've been thinking on that for a while and personally, I can't stand the idea that literally anyone can use the Force for a number of reasons. The first is my biggest issue with this idea and that is the massive plot hole this could cause, arguably one bigger than the holdo manuver. If everyone has the potential to use the force, then why don't we see more Force users than just the jedi and sith? Why don't we see bounty hunters use it, or why don't vader or the emperor train their military to use the force? Instead of manufacturing a clone army, why didn't the jedi train regular people to use the force against battle droids? I'd argue that would give them pretty good odds. Also, instead of thousands of jedi, why aren't there millions?
Another reason is that I feel this undermines the importance of the jedi. I know you don't want jedi to become superheroes, and believe me, I don't either, but one attribute they have that can apply to the jedi is that the reason they stand up to great evils or a major threat is because no one else can. If everyone has the capability of becoming a Force user, why do they even need the jedi? Why even protect a galaxy when it can protect itself. It also makes the jedi seem selfish for not sharing this power with other people so they won't need them anymore. It could've been done a thousand generations ago and it probably would have prevented conflicts or prepare people for them.
The last reason is that I find it less spiritually meaningful. Imagine the honor and privilege of being gifted a power most people don't have. By making it accessible to everyone you essentially water it down and it becomes less special. It's what syndrome said in the incredibles, "If everyone's super, no one will be." Overall, I find "you don't choose the force, the force chooses you" more meaningful than "you get the force, you get the force, and you get the force." Plus, with this I think you can make a pretty interesting dynamic between the jedi and sith. The jedi believe that because the force chose them, that gives them a sense of responsibility to protect the galaxy and safeguard the peace, whereas the sith have a sense of entitlement, seeing themselves above others and that because the force chose them, that makes them the rightful rullers of the galaxy. It plays perfectly into the theme of selfless vs selfish.
I also want to say that by having force users be a minority in a galaxy if trillions, it better explains why han didn't believe in the force. Darth bane believed that tales of the jedi were greatly exaggerated and were the stuff of legend, which is pretty easy to assume if most people can't use the force.
Before I end this comment, I want to say yes, I am aware of the 'karate' quote that George Lucas said in 1983. But, correct me if I'm wrong, I don't think he has said anything else to support this idea since. I think it's more likely that he may have changed his mind overtime, because the prequels seem to contradict this idea. Where I stand is, if it was said a long time before the rest of the story was finished and it didn't make it into the final product as a whole, then it can be disregarded. Overall, thoughts?
2:15 I think star wars fans want compelling stories with drama, and fun memorable sequences involving characters we like. As well as a more dark space opera tone like revenge of the sith or empire strikes back. The last Jedi ruined the tone of star wars by making the darkest chapter of the trilogy filled with terrible out of place comedy
Hidetaka Miyazaki writing for Star Wars would be a dream come true 😂
I like how the entire Star Wars creative team just discovered classic samurai movies and pretend to be big fans
What Star Wars needs to be again is FUN, which neither Andor nor Obi-Wan were. Lucas always remembered that it was ultimately a galactic adventure for all ages, even when he did Revenge of the Sith. I didn't like Obi-Wan but Andor is something I can tell from miles away I have absolutely zero interest in so I haven't watched it.
We need a Kenobi: Remastered. Ewan McGregor and Hayden Christensen deserve better. They're clearly still interested in doing Star Wars, so it would be a win for everybody
I did not watch "Andor." Not because I thought it was bad (how could I think that without having watched it?), and not because I thought it wasn't "real Star Wars." I didn't watch "Andor" because I had no interest in its story. To me, it was a prequel to a prequel -- a footnote to a footnote. I don't mind exploring down a level -- "Rogue One" was entertaining -- but not two, at least not with tertiary characters.
Hey Thor: LIGHTSABERS!
I think the reason lightsabers look so bad in modern t canon Disney Star Wars is because they are using physical lightsaber replicas not special effects drawn in. The scale is all wrong and when characters fight you can see blade 'Bounce' which subconsciously I believe people are seeing something off.
Thoughts?
Considering that the only thing your average Star Wars fan clamors for nowadays is prequel-era content and cameos from the exact same characters over and over again (*cough cough* Ahsoka), Lucasfilm execs have to be so confused when the shows they put out end up being bad. That said, I don’t think that excuses their poor quality. Regardless of what show or film you make, you should make it the best it can be.
They could have gone with straight forward stories and each one of them would have been a hit. Instead, they hired a bunch of people who wanted to leave their mark and further their own careers.
Hey Thor, do you think that legends handled Palatine somehow returning, and an almost endless state of war with no lasting peace even in the force from Anakin's sacrifice better?
I notice it basically does a lot of the same things I see the sequels criticized for, and while I agree the sequels were hot garbage, and the EU was much better, it feels like the EU fell into some of the same traps when trying to take the story forward. After all, taking the wars out of Star Wars might not go so well or be interesting.
And I've also always wondered what a snow trooper mask looks like under the hood, is there a canon representation? I imagine a little rebreather looking face mask to complete the helmet or something.
Well if they are using the pixel blades now it’d explain one of the reasons why saber fights are meh. Guarantee the ones Disney makes are of poorer quality and more fragile than 3rd party’s make. Also I feel the actors just don’t want to put in the work to choreograph a fight.
I don't really care that much about how the lightsabers look. My problem is that nobody really dies by them, it's become a useless weapon
Hey Thor I am just wondering why do you think Disney is taking basically forever to make a Star Wars movie because personally for me at this point a Star Wars movie shouldn’t be hard but easy at least in my opinion.
I don't know, why has it taken five years to get new Legends? Because Lucasfilm doesn't care and only do what THEY want to do. And because of Disney's banks, they'll never fail.
@@saberiandream316 figures
The Hardest thing for #DEIDismalDisney to figure out is how not to keep fucking up everything !
Suggesting that people didn't think Andor was real Star Wars because it lacked lightsabers is such a strawman argument that just attacks the people who have a different opinion from yourself. Most of the people felt the endless shades of grey in Andor did not respect the classic good vs evil story of Star Wars, not that they just wanted pretty flashing lights.
We would rather retcon the Sequels out of existence than just to have something for the sake of having the Sequels...
The Lightsabers not looking as "good" or whatever... is such a minute nitpicky fanboy thing to point out... there are so many problems with Star Wars to worry about if the white corona of a Lightsaber blade is enough...seriously. Even in the OT, the Lightsabers sizes/shapes/colors were not consistent.
Andor was great storytelling, but SLOW! It could have had more flash, aliens, etc. But, the lack thereof wasn't as bad as the pacing. We just want good stories, that FIT into the larger SW story without continuity issues.
Modern Disney/Kennedy Lucasfilm has mismanaged the brand hard.