There is A LOT of interesting conversations around the adaptation of this moment, I think the change is totally justified, but I also can understand people being a bit upset, because it was one of the more iconic moments from the stream. I think one important difference is that in the show it was the first time (I assume) twins met their father after they left him, in the campaign twins already had their first awful interaction with the dad (granted it was before the stream), so I think it was important for the show to clearly establish just how much of a dick Syldor is (and I remember him being a bit more soft in the campaign) so it would make Vex's conflicted feelings even more interesting. Also in the campaign twins pretty much resolved their arc with the dad with this interaction, but in the show we clearly going to get some kind of resolution later.
If I had to hazard a guess, it'll be towards the end of the Conclave arc, as in S3. To see his children, despite being half bloods, saving the very realm from catastrophe.
in the reaction stream last night that was something laura and talis talked about how in the stream it worked because of the fact they had met before and had worked some stuff out somewhat, and the general suprise matt had as the DM to that. but that in character syldor wouldnt care so they changed it for those reasons
as a person who hasn't watched the campaign but has watched the show the show did it better in my opinion. Also based off of your comment I would say that it was a good choice
i just wish they'd kept the 'if i could tear your blood from my veins i would' in the same context, saying it to Syldor's face was such a goddamn power move
I totally agree that it's the DM talking, not Syldor, when Matt accepts the change. As a DM you don't want to spit on a fun dramatic choice from a player in that scenario. You want to reward them for doing something cool. However... On stream, this is a total Percy moment. It's all Taliesin. No one knew this was coming. Just look at Laura's face lol. Percival is sticking his neck out in front of a powerful figure for Vex's sake. I think the dissatisfaction from some people comes from the fact that because of the change the show replaces a dramatic act of love with more "FuCk YoU dAd!" angst. It doesn't feel as satisfying, even if this is probably how all the characters WOULD behave.
Love both versions, but the animated one serves its purpose better, in my opinion. Percy's goals for bestowing the title were as follows: 1. Let Vex know he has her back. 2. Stick it to Vex's dad. He accomplishes both in both scenarios, but in the animated version, Vex's dad is so much more annoyed, and Vex has the opportunity to return the favor to Percy by then defending him from her father's petty remarks. Therefore, since the father is more bothered, and Percy/Vex's relationship is that much more reinforced, this is the most meaningful outcome for PERCY himself. The game version is also awesome, but it focuses on catharsis for the players who are rewarded for roleplaying in the game well. The game version is less focused on developing the actual characters themselves and is more so a congratulatory concession for Taliesin's cleverness. In the animated series, the players are no longer factors in the experience, so I totally believe the character oriented direction was the correct move. Either way, I'm VERY glad both exist.
@@Kadel___ Both wrong! That was very clearly an intimidation check. Percy was using his authority as a nobleman and his care for Vex to force his wishes upon someone else. A clear intimidation tactic.
This animated series has a lot of moments of: what the DM wished he would have said, if it wasn't all improvised. But then again, a lot of things actually worked out in the table game.
The most important part of that whole interaction in both the campaign and the show has always been what the title meant for Vex and Percy, not Syldor. Changing his reaction to suit the pacing of the show is totally reasonable and loses nothing in the meaning of the moment.
Also what i really like is another very little but cute detail: the reaction of Laura. the animator took this reaction she had on the stream and put it into the screenplay. It isn't exact the same but it fits so well!
Only thing I didn't care for was the fact her father didn't have to initially choke it down and change it right then..lol.. so much more satisfying than they having to come back again to get it amended.
They spoke of his reaction on the watch party for this episode. Matt was surprised at the table so he reacted. This version of Slydor is a total a hole and has no respect for humans especially a minor noble like Percy. Matt, and Troy Baker, made the choice to have Syldor dismiss the title as another dig at Vex.
I did kinda miss Vex's excitement with the title in the show. In the campaign, she hugs Percy and even kisses him on the cheek. Then when Percy loses memory of giving the title, Vex is visibly upset because she lost a moment between the two of them (later regained). I get not adding the excitement in the show. Made sense she was in a somber mood after confronting her dad. And I liked their moment in the Feywilde. But I do hope we get the see their relationship really bloom so when they get to a certain moment with Percy involving R (👀) and Vex realizes how much she loves him, it'll feel totally earned.
I really don't get why some people are dissatisfied with how they portrayed this scene... it's perfect. The only reason they are disappointed is because there isn't an audience to whoop and holler. This is exactly how it would have played out, their father is a horrible person, and he isn't just going to let them have this moment over him.
It's because the stream had more punch behind the moment. When I firat saw it, I wasn't sure about it either. But after rewatching it a few times, I've grown to like it more as it does make more sense and it moves the spotlight from Percy to Vex.
I'm dissatisfied with this scene because the animated show reframed everything Percy did in the Feywild as a failure lol. He went from being a useful team member with questionable ethics to being incompetent comic relief this season. They're setting up for future seasons, that much is obvious. But as it stands this scene was such a letdown for me
It feels really different with the different outcome. Why did their father take them in when he obviously didn't want to? He felt he had the obligation to care for them, and by taking them in and being a massive 💩🕳️ he _technically_ cared for them. Amending the name on the scroll is consistent with that attitude - bare minimum effort to be technically correct.
The only thing I didn't liked it is because, in the animation, their father is just mean for the sake of being mean, while in the show he seems mean because he is to attached to tradition, politics and etiquete. A man like that would not challenge the tittle of a noble in a social visit like that. That's why he amend the document in the show. In the animation he had no reason to act like that. He was mean just for the sake of the character, and it's not a well written thing.
@@amodelmannequin I prefer comic relief Percy, to be honest. It takes off some of the edge that made me... not like him as much in the previous season.
I actually appreciate the change. One weakness from Matt is that the man can't play an unredeemable asshole with a bitter ending. Unless the abusive/cruel/evil parent from the backstory is going to be a central villain (ukatoa/kevdak/ikithon), the relationships all end up repaired and the characters are a lot more chill from how they're introduced. "My father is a hell warlock who murdered a dozen people and tore my family apart and sold me off to slavery..." 20 episodes later, the dad opens the front door, offers them tea and asks how he can apologize for what he did.
Wish I could have seen the livestream back in the day, because I'd 100% would be cheering with everyone else after Percy gave Syldor a royal burn and stood up for Vex. That was my exact reaction while watching the series - and my inner Grog made me wish they punched Syldor in the face!
I think it's because the father thinks it is not real and Percy is lying or pretending it means more then it does. Also not hearing people cheer in the background takes a little "oomf" out of a burn.
They made much more a point about her father being a total ass in the show, as opposed to the stream, so it made more sense for him to be dismissive. They are trying to set up a 'character growth' moment for Vex, instead of Percy essentially handing it to her in the form of a title. In the show the father completely dismisses her achievements, of which there are many already in the lore (and the show), and I would probably expect to see a "I don't need your approval moment" or "I will help my father no strings attached, unlike you" moment to show this. When you think about it for a moment if his approval had just been given after hearing a title, from a city he's never heard of (or knows is corrupt), it would have been so flat. Why would he have? Who is Percy? What even is Whitestone to him? And why would that title matter? Giving Vex a change to grow and Syldor a chance to come to a realisation, in the face of overwhelming evidence, he was wrong is the right thing to do for the screen imo.
I love in the live play how sildore takes it in stride and respects, i get why they changed it for the cartoon just one of the more little things that couldve stayed
Could be many things: Disagreements with the director(s), producers or the studio itself. There are many people involved with this project with their own opinions on what makes the best impact, as well as people with strong opinions on messaging in story telling. And maybe most important: The difficulty of telling such a long and comprehensive story with nuanced and well written characters, with so short episodes. Also been poking around the web, and I don't think any of the original CR crew were among the executives on this project. Which usually means less creative control.
@@0That_Guy0 if you watch the credits they're all listed as executives. they have control over what does and does not make it in to the show. which means they made the decision to turn percy into something of a buffoon this season and i can't say i'm super thrilled with the outcome
@@whitemoonwolf13 That surprised me to hear. I haven't watched the show, so I looked around on different sites to see the list of creators etc. Obviously the ones I found were either incomplete or outright wrong, so thanks for the info. It makes it all the more strange to me, though. You'd think the people who practically lived the characters, understood them well enough to not alter things so much that it creates a divide in the fandom. Being familiar with some of Amazon's projects, I'd expect it from them, but not the team from Critical Role.
@@0That_Guy0 from what i can gather it's all because of streamlining. they have a limited amount of episodes to tell 400~ hrs of story. but some changes truly do baffle me. the aforementioned bumbling with percy's character, the changes to scanlan's backstory, the removal of some characters completely... these are things that didn't need to be changed as they wouldn't affect the pacing, but they did and i feel s2 suffered a bit because of it. because of some changes i do wonder if percy is even going to die in this version.
idk about that, if we're gonna count the broad universe as a whole and not just the animated series so far, Otahan Thull seems to be going for the season 3 title, after 3x38. Then of course, there's Lorenzo...
@@NathanielTavington I am not down with Thull. She is a puppet of a bigger villain from Campaign 2 Ludenes: a man who put fear into Beau. ( Now that he is about I worry about Beau and Caleb). Bell's Hells has moments, but they have not hooked me like the Mighty Nein did.
Change I think is a good one adds more weight to the story and tension during the fight with the archfae later on when Vex is under his charm but nice to know daddy dearest wasn’t a complete total dick head in e cmapaign at that point
I was really unsatisfied with her father's reaction in the animated show But it was still really well captured, i was wondering if they'd would animate this iconic moment
The show lessened the impact of what Percy did by having Shalador not be surprised or caught off guard. I'm glad we have the livestream because the show failed to do this moment justice.
Not gonna lie, I wished they saved the bomb later on. I was expecting like either they retreived the bow or maybe after defeating one of the dragons. I'm all for changing a bit from the source material since this just feels a bit non-cathartic.
Having watched the Prime series but not the original campaign, I thought maybe Derolo rolled poorly on a deception check. I liked the campaign one better than the series.
As a person who never saw the first campaign, but saw this clip many times without the proper context, I was excited to see that scene play out in full and in the end it felt very anticlimactic. I this (and I suspect “my heart belongs to another” line later, because in the show it makes very little sense) indicates a certain weakness with the show - combination of desire to keep all fan-favourite epic moments in the campaign with economical inability to fit the larger context for it. Fans of the campaign would still be excited that its there and people completely new can glance over it, but to someone in my place the mismatch stands out.
Their trip to the fey wild was really the only thing I didn't like about season 2. This scene in particular, and also I was really hoping they'd animate the moment when Vex and Vax finally stood up to Syldor and Vex talking about pulling his blood from her veins. She still got to say it, but she said it to whats-his-face in the Shademurk, so it didn't hit as hard as it could have.
I’m still wondering why LOVM made the choice to add that bullshit from the dad. He was much softer originally and didn’t say anything like that to P at the end. Am I remembering right?
I hear you! To me Syldor always came across as cold, distant, and, maybe, uncaring towards his half-blodded children, but never a total dick. To be honest the whole batch of previous episodes (7-9) was a bit of a letdown to me. They completely changed Syldor, changed the mechanics of Craven Edge and made Grog puny for some reason (to set up those low rolls during 1v1 with Kevdak?), changed Scanlans backstory even - like, why does he not know Dr. Dra? What's the point of taking away Scanlan's mentor? If they had recognized each other during the surprize meeting, it wouldn't have changed a single thing, so why?
I feel like this is how Tolkien fans must have felt watching LOTR. The characters in the books, while flawed, are often far more polite and understanding. The movies went out of their way to breed conflict and disagreements, so character arcs would feel bigger. Boromir and Elrond are way nicer in the books, as is Tree Beard's first meeting with the Hobbits. So far we've had Season 1 Vex, Kash, and Zara all act like way bigger jerks then the stream. And now Syldor isn't just detached, he's straight up cruel. It's jarring, but when you have less time, it's understandable that you have to go bigger with personalities to leave an impact.
Because some of the fandom kept defending him and saying he's a good dad and not toxic. Since people couldnt understand nuance and they dont have that much time in the show they made it simpler
@@chrisw2307 There is also the fact that a lot of character growth happened BEFORE the Briarwood arc, character development that wouldn't make sense to people who didn't watch all of campaign 1. We got to watch them grow more confident over time, more compassionate, and more thoughtful of the world around them (especially after Orion left), whereas with the animated series it's basically starting all over, for them and for the audience. It wasn't a lightly made decision, Matt and his players made it together when writing out the show, giving them all something of a soft reset. For those of us who know the characters from the beginning, it can be frustrating, but from the standpoint of a storyteller, adjusting it for a much larger audience, it makes sense.
did he just succeed on the cha roll in the game or was that the main difference between the game and the show? dad's more of an ass but i also like hi int low cha percy he's such a fancy loser
Obviously Percy gets the last laugh in the grand scheme of things (no spoilers) but the one thing Percy's good at is verbal takedowns and we couldn't even get that 🙄
@@Boostocalypse probably because in the early days, the crowd they gathered for their live show was way smaller than it is now, so it was more the size of a normal sitcom studio audience.
The only thing I didn't liked it is because, in the animation, their father is just mean for the sake of being mean, while in the show he seems mean because he is to attached to tradition, politics and etiquete. A man like that would not challenge the tittle of a noble in a social visit like that. That's why he amend the document in the show. In the animation he had no reason to act like that. He was mean just for the sake of the character, and it's not a well written thing.
The animated show is so utterly inferior to the campaign in so many moments like this. I really feel sorry for the people who experience the story like this instead of from the D&D campaign. And no, it has nothing to do with changing Syldor's reaction in this moment, but to do with pacing, tone, and impact of the scene. In the original, this is *Percy's moment*. It's not about Vex, or what it means to Vex, or how Syldor reacts. This is a moment that both shows both *Percy's love for Vex* and *his political cunning*. He understands how men like Syldor work, and how fickle their perceptions of others are. That something that PERCY understand to be meaningless - a title - will force someone who takes aristocracy seriously - like Syldor - to change his behaviour, even if just a little. Percy knows he can't give Vex the love of her unloving father, but he can, if just for a brief moment, give her his respect. It is *demanded* by the social rules that Syldor lives by, and he will do it even if begrudgingly, which it clearly is in the original scene. It's a masterful moment and one of Percy's best character moments in the entire show. In the animated series, Percy is made to look like a fool instead. Syldor dismantles him for doing something he calls "beneath him" and it makes it look as though Percy has no idea what he is doing and merely fumbling his way around aristocracy. It makes him look incredibly weak. To make matters worse, Vex immediately then steals the spotlight from Percy, and the moment becomes entirely about her and her father. Percy fades into the background of what was supposed to be HIS scene. The added dialogue is also INCREDIBLY generic and reduces Syldor to a generic "bad dad" and Vex's putdown of him to just saying "you're a bad dad", and the overall pacing of the scene is so fast that we're not even given time, as an audience, to process what Percy has done for Vex, or what it means to either of them. It's cool to see the show brought to life in animated form, but the writing for the show (as in, where they have to adjust things to fit the new format) is abysmally bad. The first series was plagued by this problem as well and it's a shame no lessons were learned for season 2.
Because it was recorded live in front of an audience. Your not the first to comment this and wont be the last, feel free to delete your original if you wish?
@@TPBurrow lol I noticed it a bit later into the video when they cut to the audience lol At first I was really offput by it but then had an "AHA" moment lol
The only thing the animated version couldn’t keep was Travis’ excitement 😂 captain of the perc’ahlia ship forever and always
His obvious delight really does elevate an already-great moment. 🥰
The best husband is the one who ships your characters the most
Yeah perch'alia enjoy ua-cam.com/video/JKNNNj1tdSM/v-deo.html
I hope maybe with future ship moments they keep Grog in the background squealing with giddiness. 😆
3:12 Travis: "You should _thank_ Percy"
-dispite your relationship with her, do watch your manners. (PERCY'S BEST QUOTE)
I love that they kept the line as originally delivered, it's such a badass quote.
Laura: This is a belt buckle why are handing it to me....
Liam: Shh we are playing pretend.😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅
There is A LOT of interesting conversations around the adaptation of this moment, I think the change is totally justified, but I also can understand people being a bit upset, because it was one of the more iconic moments from the stream.
I think one important difference is that in the show it was the first time (I assume) twins met their father after they left him, in the campaign twins already had their first awful interaction with the dad (granted it was before the stream), so I think it was important for the show to clearly establish just how much of a dick Syldor is (and I remember him being a bit more soft in the campaign) so it would make Vex's conflicted feelings even more interesting. Also in the campaign twins pretty much resolved their arc with the dad with this interaction, but in the show we clearly going to get some kind of resolution later.
If I had to hazard a guess, it'll be towards the end of the Conclave arc, as in S3. To see his children, despite being half bloods, saving the very realm from catastrophe.
in the reaction stream last night that was something laura and talis talked about how in the stream it worked because of the fact they had met before and had worked some stuff out somewhat, and the general suprise matt had as the DM to that. but that in character syldor wouldnt care so they changed it for those reasons
as a person who hasn't watched the campaign but has watched the show the show did it better in my opinion. Also based off of your comment I would say that it was a good choice
i just wish they'd kept the 'if i could tear your blood from my veins i would' in the same context, saying it to Syldor's face was such a goddamn power move
I totally agree that it's the DM talking, not Syldor, when Matt accepts the change. As a DM you don't want to spit on a fun dramatic choice from a player in that scenario. You want to reward them for doing something cool. However...
On stream, this is a total Percy moment. It's all Taliesin. No one knew this was coming. Just look at Laura's face lol. Percival is sticking his neck out in front of a powerful figure for Vex's sake. I think the dissatisfaction from some people comes from the fact that because of the change the show replaces a dramatic act of love with more "FuCk YoU dAd!" angst. It doesn't feel as satisfying, even if this is probably how all the characters WOULD behave.
And we were all that guy near the front row with his hands over his mouth.
😂😂🎉🎉
Damn that scene was so impactful in the show I had no idea it was originally performed in front of an audience holy shit!!!
Although I do think him refusing to edit it in the show is a greater demonstration of his character as a massive POS lol
Love both versions, but the animated one serves its purpose better, in my opinion.
Percy's goals for bestowing the title were as follows:
1. Let Vex know he has her back.
2. Stick it to Vex's dad.
He accomplishes both in both scenarios, but in the animated version, Vex's dad is so much more annoyed, and Vex has the opportunity to return the favor to Percy by then defending him from her father's petty remarks. Therefore, since the father is more bothered, and Percy/Vex's relationship is that much more reinforced, this is the most meaningful outcome for PERCY himself.
The game version is also awesome, but it focuses on catharsis for the players who are rewarded for roleplaying in the game well. The game version is less focused on developing the actual characters themselves and is more so a congratulatory concession for Taliesin's cleverness.
In the animated series, the players are no longer factors in the experience, so I totally believe the character oriented direction was the correct move. Either way, I'm VERY glad both exist.
Im with you, i love both and the Cartoon hit its purpose of showing How they Care for each other already (Vex and Percy)
Animated Percy failed the Deception check.
Technically it was persuasion.
@@Kadel___ Both wrong! That was very clearly an intimidation check. Percy was using his authority as a nobleman and his care for Vex to force his wishes upon someone else. A clear intimidation tactic.
This animated series has a lot of moments of: what the DM wished he would have said, if it wasn't all improvised.
But then again, a lot of things actually worked out in the table game.
Lord Grog Stonejaw Strongjaw, Duke of the first house of peanut butter, eater of the crunch, thanks you for your service.
Grand Poobah de Doink of All of This and That
👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
The most important part of that whole interaction in both the campaign and the show has always been what the title meant for Vex and Percy, not Syldor. Changing his reaction to suit the pacing of the show is totally reasonable and loses nothing in the meaning of the moment.
Also what i really like is another very little but cute detail: the reaction of Laura. the animator took this reaction she had on the stream and put it into the screenplay. It isn't exact the same but it fits so well!
Now get in a canoe.... 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣
Only thing I didn't care for was the fact her father didn't have to initially choke it down and change it right then..lol.. so much more satisfying than they having to come back again to get it amended.
I love that we don’t get the satisfaction of him amending it. It is a bit of an obvious move
I wish Syldor was shocked and surprised like in the original. This moment was a big cathartic moment and we didn’t get that in the animation
They spoke of his reaction on the watch party for this episode. Matt was surprised at the table so he reacted. This version of Slydor is a total a hole and has no respect for humans especially a minor noble like Percy. Matt, and Troy Baker, made the choice to have Syldor dismiss the title as another dig at Vex.
@@binder38us is Percy a minor noble? I feel like whitestone is an important city, no?
Everything is surprising when you're improving. Plus Matt needed to wait for the audience to settle down.
It's more realistic. Syldor, a diplomat by trade, would see through that trick in an instant.
@@madnessends2477 Sometimes no matter what the setting, elves dont give a fuck.
I did kinda miss Vex's excitement with the title in the show. In the campaign, she hugs Percy and even kisses him on the cheek. Then when Percy loses memory of giving the title, Vex is visibly upset because she lost a moment between the two of them (later regained).
I get not adding the excitement in the show. Made sense she was in a somber mood after confronting her dad. And I liked their moment in the Feywilde. But I do hope we get the see their relationship really bloom so when they get to a certain moment with Percy involving R (👀) and Vex realizes how much she loves him, it'll feel totally earned.
I really don't get why some people are dissatisfied with how they portrayed this scene... it's perfect. The only reason they are disappointed is because there isn't an audience to whoop and holler. This is exactly how it would have played out, their father is a horrible person, and he isn't just going to let them have this moment over him.
It's because the stream had more punch behind the moment. When I firat saw it, I wasn't sure about it either. But after rewatching it a few times, I've grown to like it more as it does make more sense and it moves the spotlight from Percy to Vex.
I'm dissatisfied with this scene because the animated show reframed everything Percy did in the Feywild as a failure lol. He went from being a useful team member with questionable ethics to being incompetent comic relief this season.
They're setting up for future seasons, that much is obvious. But as it stands this scene was such a letdown for me
It feels really different with the different outcome. Why did their father take them in when he obviously didn't want to? He felt he had the obligation to care for them, and by taking them in and being a massive 💩🕳️ he _technically_ cared for them. Amending the name on the scroll is consistent with that attitude - bare minimum effort to be technically correct.
The only thing I didn't liked it is because, in the animation, their father is just mean for the sake of being mean, while in the show he seems mean because he is to attached to tradition, politics and etiquete. A man like that would not challenge the tittle of a noble in a social visit like that. That's why he amend the document in the show. In the animation he had no reason to act like that. He was mean just for the sake of the character, and it's not a well written thing.
@@amodelmannequin I prefer comic relief Percy, to be honest. It takes off some of the edge that made me... not like him as much in the previous season.
sIGH this makes me miss live shows so much (even though I've never been to one yet
I am going to one in London in October, the first they have ever done outside the US.
ahh i hope you have fun! :D @@TPBurrow
We will certainly try:) @@katherinelikesstuff
I actually appreciate the change. One weakness from Matt is that the man can't play an unredeemable asshole with a bitter ending. Unless the abusive/cruel/evil parent from the backstory is going to be a central villain (ukatoa/kevdak/ikithon), the relationships all end up repaired and the characters are a lot more chill from how they're introduced. "My father is a hell warlock who murdered a dozen people and tore my family apart and sold me off to slavery..." 20 episodes later, the dad opens the front door, offers them tea and asks how he can apologize for what he did.
Wish I could have seen the livestream back in the day, because I'd 100% would be cheering with everyone else after Percy gave Syldor a royal burn and stood up for Vex. That was my exact reaction while watching the series - and my inner Grog made me wish they punched Syldor in the face!
They made him MORE of a dick in the show than in the campaign, I didn’t think that was possible 😂
I always thought Matt Mercer and Troy Baker sounded alike and this only compounds that idea. Thought it was Matt voicing him in my first watch.
I wish they'd have kept some semblance of surprise or embarrassment from her father. The dismissal was so unsatisfying 😞
I view it as a dismissal made in embarrassment. He doesn't strike me as someone who takes being one-upped like that kindly
I think the surprise and embarrassment was Matt, not Syldor.
Maybe it's not done yet
I think it's because the father thinks it is not real and Percy is lying or pretending it means more then it does. Also not hearing people cheer in the background takes a little "oomf" out of a burn.
felt more in character though.
They made much more a point about her father being a total ass in the show, as opposed to the stream, so it made more sense for him to be dismissive. They are trying to set up a 'character growth' moment for Vex, instead of Percy essentially handing it to her in the form of a title. In the show the father completely dismisses her achievements, of which there are many already in the lore (and the show), and I would probably expect to see a "I don't need your approval moment" or "I will help my father no strings attached, unlike you" moment to show this.
When you think about it for a moment if his approval had just been given after hearing a title, from a city he's never heard of (or knows is corrupt), it would have been so flat. Why would he have? Who is Percy? What even is Whitestone to him? And why would that title matter? Giving Vex a change to grow and Syldor a chance to come to a realisation, in the face of overwhelming evidence, he was wrong is the right thing to do for the screen imo.
I forgot this was live. This vid will do well for you (except for the people who think you put a laugh track to CR and drop (like I almost did.))
This was Percy proposing to her.
I love in the live play how sildore takes it in stride and respects, i get why they changed it for the cartoon just one of the more little things that couldve stayed
See! It's like reading a book, then watching the movie!
The people who played this Wrote it
Why are there So many differences!
Could be many things: Disagreements with the director(s), producers or the studio itself. There are many people involved with this project with their own opinions on what makes the best impact, as well as people with strong opinions on messaging in story telling. And maybe most important: The difficulty of telling such a long and comprehensive story with nuanced and well written characters, with so short episodes.
Also been poking around the web, and I don't think any of the original CR crew were among the executives on this project. Which usually means less creative control.
They also have to squeeze hundreds of hours into 30 minute episodes.
@@0That_Guy0 if you watch the credits they're all listed as executives. they have control over what does and does not make it in to the show. which means they made the decision to turn percy into something of a buffoon this season and i can't say i'm super thrilled with the outcome
@@whitemoonwolf13 That surprised me to hear. I haven't watched the show, so I looked around on different sites to see the list of creators etc. Obviously the ones I found were either incomplete or outright wrong, so thanks for the info.
It makes it all the more strange to me, though. You'd think the people who practically lived the characters, understood them well enough to not alter things so much that it creates a divide in the fandom.
Being familiar with some of Amazon's projects, I'd expect it from them, but not the team from Critical Role.
@@0That_Guy0 from what i can gather it's all because of streamlining. they have a limited amount of episodes to tell 400~ hrs of story. but some changes truly do baffle me. the aforementioned bumbling with percy's character, the changes to scanlan's backstory, the removal of some characters completely... these are things that didn't need to be changed as they wouldn't affect the pacing, but they did and i feel s2 suffered a bit because of it.
because of some changes i do wonder if percy is even going to die in this version.
It is close for me who is the most hated NPC in the CR universe: Syldor or Trent Inkathon
idk about that, if we're gonna count the broad universe as a whole and not just the animated series so far, Otahan Thull seems to be going for the season 3 title, after 3x38. Then of course, there's Lorenzo...
@@NathanielTavington I am not down with Thull. She is a puppet of a bigger villain from Campaign 2 Ludenes: a man who put fear into Beau. ( Now that he is about I worry about Beau and Caleb). Bell's Hells has moments, but they have not hooked me like the Mighty Nein did.
Change I think is a good one adds more weight to the story and tension during the fight with the archfae later on when Vex is under his charm but nice to know daddy dearest wasn’t a complete total dick head in e cmapaign at that point
The verbal backhand.
I was really unsatisfied with her father's reaction in the animated show
But it was still really well captured, i was wondering if they'd would animate this iconic moment
He would always be a piece of shit to them honestly
The show lessened the impact of what Percy did by having Shalador not be surprised or caught off guard. I'm glad we have the livestream because the show failed to do this moment justice.
I forgot this was during a live show lmao
mhmm go on be honest, did you almost post a comment about the laugh track? lol so many people do that
@TP Burrow I questioned it for a moment then saw the set up and was like..... oh yeah lol
That “well you didn’t know”😶
Not gonna lie, I wished they saved the bomb later on. I was expecting like either they retreived the bow or maybe after defeating one of the dragons. I'm all for changing a bit from the source material since this just feels a bit non-cathartic.
Percy and Vex sitting in a tree 😊
Having watched the Prime series but not the original campaign, I thought maybe Derolo rolled poorly on a deception check. I liked the campaign one better than the series.
Unfortunately anyone who just watches the animated series not gonna understand the Grey Hunt part but thats ok.
As a person who never saw the first campaign, but saw this clip many times without the proper context, I was excited to see that scene play out in full and in the end it felt very anticlimactic. I this (and I suspect “my heart belongs to another” line later, because in the show it makes very little sense) indicates a certain weakness with the show - combination of desire to keep all fan-favourite epic moments in the campaign with economical inability to fit the larger context for it. Fans of the campaign would still be excited that its there and people completely new can glance over it, but to someone in my place the mismatch stands out.
Not sure why you didn't think that scene made any sense in the show. I've watched multiple reactions and everyone seems to get it just fine.
I was unfamiliar with this part of the campaign and I didn't glance over it. It seemed like a significant character moment to me.
I was hoping they'd include the poly machina scene.
Their trip to the fey wild was really the only thing I didn't like about season 2. This scene in particular, and also I was really hoping they'd animate the moment when Vex and Vax finally stood up to Syldor and Vex talking about pulling his blood from her veins. She still got to say it, but she said it to whats-his-face in the Shademurk, so it didn't hit as hard as it could have.
Im just sad they cut the content from their little sister. Abbreviated for time.
"Momma, what does 'fuck you' mean?" I had to pause at that point, Keyleth's face.....
All I got to say Percy came in clutch for that
I thought the live audience was added in post
you are not the first and wont be the last
Where can i watch the full video of this live session?
ua-cam.com/video/Ok4ZW9cNupc/v-deo.html
@@TPBurrow thanks
I’m still wondering why LOVM made the choice to add that bullshit from the dad. He was much softer originally and didn’t say anything like that to P at the end. Am I remembering right?
I hear you! To me Syldor always came across as cold, distant, and, maybe, uncaring towards his half-blodded children, but never a total dick. To be honest the whole batch of previous episodes (7-9) was a bit of a letdown to me. They completely changed Syldor, changed the mechanics of Craven Edge and made Grog puny for some reason (to set up those low rolls during 1v1 with Kevdak?), changed Scanlans backstory even - like, why does he not know Dr. Dra? What's the point of taking away Scanlan's mentor? If they had recognized each other during the surprize meeting, it wouldn't have changed a single thing, so why?
@@DumbNumbThumb agree.
I feel like this is how Tolkien fans must have felt watching LOTR. The characters in the books, while flawed, are often far more polite and understanding. The movies went out of their way to breed conflict and disagreements, so character arcs would feel bigger. Boromir and Elrond are way nicer in the books, as is Tree Beard's first meeting with the Hobbits.
So far we've had Season 1 Vex, Kash, and Zara all act like way bigger jerks then the stream. And now Syldor isn't just detached, he's straight up cruel. It's jarring, but when you have less time, it's understandable that you have to go bigger with personalities to leave an impact.
Because some of the fandom kept defending him and saying he's a good dad and not toxic. Since people couldnt understand nuance and they dont have that much time in the show they made it simpler
@@chrisw2307 There is also the fact that a lot of character growth happened BEFORE the Briarwood arc, character development that wouldn't make sense to people who didn't watch all of campaign 1. We got to watch them grow more confident over time, more compassionate, and more thoughtful of the world around them (especially after Orion left), whereas with the animated series it's basically starting all over, for them and for the audience. It wasn't a lightly made decision, Matt and his players made it together when writing out the show, giving them all something of a soft reset. For those of us who know the characters from the beginning, it can be frustrating, but from the standpoint of a storyteller, adjusting it for a much larger audience, it makes sense.
did he just succeed on the cha roll in the game or was that the main difference between the game and the show? dad's more of an ass but i also like hi int low cha percy he's such a fancy loser
liked the campaign version better tbh
Then watch the campaign. Its not fucking rocket science
@@chand911 are you this angry every time someone presents an opinion
Obviously Percy gets the last laugh in the grand scheme of things (no spoilers) but the one thing Percy's good at is verbal takedowns and we couldn't even get that 🙄
Why the laugh track?
Really?
It's... not a track, they performed it live and the crowd laughed.
@@fabplays6559 ah ok i see.Thanks! Yeah I even looked up the episode and the first comment says it makes it sound like a sitcom lol.
@@Boostocalypse probably because in the early days, the crowd they gathered for their live show was way smaller than it is now, so it was more the size of a normal sitcom studio audience.
@@Whiskypapa Fast forward a few years and they're in fucking Wembley Stadium in England.
The only thing I didn't liked it is because, in the animation, their father is just mean for the sake of being mean, while in the show he seems mean because he is to attached to tradition, politics and etiquete. A man like that would not challenge the tittle of a noble in a social visit like that. That's why he amend the document in the show. In the animation he had no reason to act like that. He was mean just for the sake of the character, and it's not a well written thing.
The animated show is so utterly inferior to the campaign in so many moments like this. I really feel sorry for the people who experience the story like this instead of from the D&D campaign.
And no, it has nothing to do with changing Syldor's reaction in this moment, but to do with pacing, tone, and impact of the scene.
In the original, this is *Percy's moment*. It's not about Vex, or what it means to Vex, or how Syldor reacts. This is a moment that both shows both *Percy's love for Vex* and *his political cunning*. He understands how men like Syldor work, and how fickle their perceptions of others are. That something that PERCY understand to be meaningless - a title - will force someone who takes aristocracy seriously - like Syldor - to change his behaviour, even if just a little.
Percy knows he can't give Vex the love of her unloving father, but he can, if just for a brief moment, give her his respect. It is *demanded* by the social rules that Syldor lives by, and he will do it even if begrudgingly, which it clearly is in the original scene. It's a masterful moment and one of Percy's best character moments in the entire show.
In the animated series, Percy is made to look like a fool instead. Syldor dismantles him for doing something he calls "beneath him" and it makes it look as though Percy has no idea what he is doing and merely fumbling his way around aristocracy. It makes him look incredibly weak.
To make matters worse, Vex immediately then steals the spotlight from Percy, and the moment becomes entirely about her and her father. Percy fades into the background of what was supposed to be HIS scene.
The added dialogue is also INCREDIBLY generic and reduces Syldor to a generic "bad dad" and Vex's putdown of him to just saying "you're a bad dad", and the overall pacing of the scene is so fast that we're not even given time, as an audience, to process what Percy has done for Vex, or what it means to either of them.
It's cool to see the show brought to life in animated form, but the writing for the show (as in, where they have to adjust things to fit the new format) is abysmally bad. The first series was plagued by this problem as well and it's a shame no lessons were learned for season 2.
Jesus Christ I could not disagree with you harder
@@bitter-bit Deadass I’m like are we watching the same show??
Why is there a laugh track......
this happened at once of their live shows, idiot. did you not notice that camera pan to the audience? or are you just blind?
Because it was recorded live in front of an audience. Your not the first to comment this and wont be the last, feel free to delete your original if you wish?
@@TPBurrow lol I noticed it a bit later into the video when they cut to the audience lol At first I was really offput by it but then had an "AHA" moment lol
Show was better.