Inverter Reverse Neutral Error Fix?
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- Опубліковано 12 вер 2024
- This video is intended to demonstrate how "I personally fixed a reverse neutral error i got when i tested an OFF-GRID 12v 3500W Inverter socket outlets with a tester. Chances are if you have an inverter you will know that there is often no reference to ground. This will result in a neutral live reversed error when you use a socket tester. The inverter I use in this video has internal galvanic isolation, check with your inverter manufacturer as to its construction and suitability for earthing via RCD, some inverters are bonded internally to neutral, some aren't and you may have to use a ground rod TT if it is not legal / safe in your area to use DNO earth. What are your thoughts on this as a solution? Do you have a better way? comment below. Naturally I accept no responsibility for what you do. Electricity in any form is dangerous to life! If in doubt always consult a professional.
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This maybe the most important video on YT.
Since these inverters are IT (no reference to earth), they are best suited to class 2 (double insulated) devices. The earth pin is unwired.
As I understand it, a single class 1 (earthed) device is utterly safe, but a pair (or more) could, during a fault, have a potential difference across them. Touching both could, therefore, give a shock.
However, if the two class 1 devices were some distance apart, contact would be unlikely.
An RCD is a common sense solution and this video is the elegant solution I have spent weeks looking for.
DC Guy, you are the bomb.
One note on the choice of RCD - type AC is probably not correct anymore because excessive dc earth leakage can saturate the RCD and prevent it from working. DC earth leakage meters are £300 and up, so that sucks. So while we're all waiting for type B to become affordable (around £250), try type A.
Lastly, by connecting to your consumer unit earth, you are likely to be connecting to the incoming neutral. Even if it looks like you have a TN-S system, work done between you and the transformer in more recent times will usually be TN-C-S (earth and neutral combined).
Once again, thanks for the vid, you're a star.
Thanks for watching and taking time to comment 🙏 it's appreciated.
This particular inverter has Galvanic separation, so an AC type RCD should not be a problem.
For anyone venturing into the world of DIY solar this is the most important and valuable video you will find on you tube .... DC guy thank you 👍👍
Thank you for watching and taking time to comment 🙏 it's appreciated
@@DCGUY Having watched this video and read the comments below am i correct in saying that in this video your Inverter AC outlet has changed from (IT) to (TN-C-S) ?
I have checked the Grid supply to my house at the meter point and it is (TN-C-S) live & neutral with a separate Earth/ground wire , i do not have any separate ground/earth rods buried on my property, i plan on paying an electrician to install a changeover switch for my petrol powered generator, could i safely connect my solar inverter (IT) to my house consumer unit via changeover switch by bonding my inverters Neutral terminal to a in ground earth rod ??
Any advice would be much appreciated .
Hi, there are a few variables to consider on the earthing question which can usually be clarified by the manufacturers of the equipment you plan to use. E.g does your inverter have an island mode? Is it internally bonded to neutral etc. In theory you can use a suitable changeover unit to switch between grid and external power sources e.g a generator but you need to either make sure there is no back feeding to the grid or if you do intend to feed excess to the grid that you have DNO approval e.g G98 G99/100. Your electrician will know this and no doubt advise accordingly. Contact the manufacturers of your products to obtain clarification if its not clear in any manuals. In my own situation I don't connect to any grid supply and installed a separate consumer unit with new cabling to outlets I need.
@@DCGUY Thanks again for replying you are a great source for great information, i will contact the solar inverters manufacturers and ask above questions, re back feeding my solar inverter has an AC in connection that can be used for charging batteries or as a bypass in the event of an appliance drawing more power than the inverter can provide, also i have no plans to feed any excess electricity into the utility grid. I will probably use my solar inverter as above to power an independent consumer unit in my house with circuits for a few appliances and lighting.
Again many thanks S 👍
@@DCGUY Hi, I made changes linking earth and negative which worked fine. However, I'm using an Automatic Transfer switch and probably made a real rooky mistake. When the battery level dropped and switched over to the public mains it damaged the inverter. The inverter is Novopal 3000 Pure Sine Wave. I'm guessing I have put mains voltage onto the dc side of the inverter? Ant feedback welcome.
If mobile you have no earth. It's the neutral to earth ( cpc) bond upstream of the rcd that allows tripping as you illustrated.
An earth - loop impedance test would confirm this. (Ze)
Problem in a campervan is when connected to ehu ( shore power) and the outdoor rcd nuisance trips.
I'm gonna install a contactor for inverter only via a 4 pole transfer switch.....
Cheers
Update.
A make break make transfer switch can have neutral bonded to earth at the switch because the grid changeover breaks the neutral to earth link.
Sorted.!
Appreciate your feedback.
You saved my bacon. This fault on my hybrid inverter was driving me nuts. Thanks for fixing it
Being a hybrid inverter when in grid mode the relay should automatically provide reference to earth during AC mode, in battery only mode and depending on the inverter model you can usually modify either by removing an internal bond screw or adding an additional relay. I wouldn't do anything until you've been guided by the inverter manufacturers.
@@DCGUY it's not grid tied. Purely off grid. So go grid options
This is a fantastic video. I've been thinking about connecting my MET to my negative busbar for ages but I'm worried the inverter will go pop. In the meantime I've kept my entire installation a Class 2 because of the IT earthing.
Hello.
Sorry if someone has already asked this, it's basically what you've been talking about in the video anyway...
So. I have a hybrid inverter which I only use with a battery (not connected to the grid, never connected there...).
When I measure voltages between terminals I get:
L+N=220V
L+G=160V
N+G=60V
I was wondering if you could assure me a bit more that it's safe for the inverter to bridge ground with neutral.
I have seen a video of another guy doing the same thing, I talked with him and he was very confident that it's ok to do so. But I am also looking for more than one opinion 😐
Unfortunately any electrician I have asked here in Greece, knew nothing regarding how to properly ground an inverter... Even guys that work with inverters as a hobby (or even gone professional) for a long time, don't know how to properly ground them O_O.
This is getting annoying... So far, the only real answer I have gotten is from your and another video talking about ground/neutral bridging...
But you know... It's a video on UA-cam... Do I wanna bet my safety or the health of my inverter on it? Not really... But it seems that I might have no other choice 😐
If you are also pretty confident about ground/neutral bridging, please let me know. I need some more encouragement before I pull that trigger 😅
Thank you you have solved my problem which was driving me crazy
Glad you found the video useful. Thanks
Thanks for this video I've copied it and now I've got my greenhouses safely ground Earth😄👍
Thanks for the tutorial, it was really easy to understand. I am building a stand alone offgrid system (UK) without connection to grid and have a question: should I connect the AC ground from the consumer unit (breaker panel) to a new, separate earth rod, or should I bond it to a DC earth busbar which is connected to earth rod and have only one earth/ground rod in the system? Thanks.
While I can't claim to be an expert on the subject, my own understanding is that it is better to have a single point of earth reference. So your ground rod should suffice.
Excellent video, thank you! Lack of RCD protection has been a worry!
My consumer unit (after the inverter) is in my garage, as is a small consumer unit powered from the house main CU, to power garage lighting and our central heating boiler.
Rather than running all the way to the main CU in the house,
If I run an earth from the inverter CU, to the earth in my lighting/boiler CU, or my boiler copper pipework, will that serve?
Yes that will be fine Den as long as the pipework is bonded to earth. Thanks for watching and taking time to comment 🙏
Thank you for that, yes the pipework is bonded. That's great,! I've been looking online for a answer (I could grasp! lol) for months, even contacted the manufacturer of my inverter without success. Your channel rocks :)
thanks budy, your video surly gide my path way, again thanks.
Glad to help
Very cool - cheers.
Thanks for the information, very useful and fully understood. however, how does this translate to a campervan where there is no earth at all when off grid? (big metal box resting on rubber tyres) I have a renogy inverter feeding the same consumer unit that in turn feeds several loads through a 6A and 10A MCB. presumably the RCCB in the consumer unit is useless as there is no earth so would RCBO's offer some protection?? thanks.
This is a common issue people tend to face with mobile applications. There are some factors such as do you ever use grid supplied electricity via hookup at campsites. Also I know renogy aren't great at support but I'd still try get details from them. As it stands as long as you are connected to chassis you should be perfectly fine. Use a decent gauge cable. Again, depends on the inverters internal set up on how it handles a short. Majority of appliances are class 2 so that eliminates any shock hazard.
Question? Why can you not just bridge the Earth bus bar to the Netural bus bar instead? Wont the RCD ''trip'' and be functional if the ''bridging'' was done this way instead? would it be the wrong side of thr RCD as it were?
I would not connect an offgrid inverter to the houses Earthing system. it’s a seperate source. Just add two busbars for earth and neutral and continue as you did and bond N & PE via the RCBO.
That's interesting 🤔 so if there were a fault where would the current go?
@@DCGUYThe RCBO trips instantly as all circuits following the RCBO are protected.
@@DCGUYHooking Earth up to the house negates being able to bond Earth and Neutral or one risks a ground loop only one bond can be done and that is typically at the Main service panel, any bond subsiquent to that will open an alternate path for a fault current which is dangerous. Treat it like a seperate service entry panel so you can bond it without causing a loop.
I really need some advice.
I bought a cheap UPS inverter 120 VAC / 24 VDC. Right out of the box, the battery terminals were lose. So I opened it up and found another surprise inside. The 120 input [a grounded plug] and the [grounded] outputs have nothing connected to the ground post. Just the hot and neutral have wires. Ido not see anything on the board marked "ground" Can i run my own ground wire to those input /outputs and to the metal case. That is how my other, different, UPS inverter is. That way it will be grounded while plugged into the home power and still grounded when the power is out. I also use a GFCI on the outputs .
I worried about no real ground.
Great video mate.
Thanks 👍
Great video..
but could you just clarify the outputs from the inverter on the rear. you have hard wired into the centre terminals... is this a separate output to the 2 x 13 amp plug sockets either side ?
tia
Hi, thanks for watching and taking time to comment 🙏 The hardwire outlet is the direct AC feed outlet & the 2 sockets are spurred from this point. I've put up a video showing inside the inverter ua-cam.com/video/6b_6QnshTGg/v-deo.html
@@DCGUY thats great.. thank you. big respect...
but one more question please, The new video shows you contemplating fitting an RCD type cut out... but these only work if the Neutral is referenced to the earth...
so they can detect an imbalance in Live/neutral current flow....
but you don't discuss this aspect... I'm intrigued why you would use an RCD in this situation..
Hi, thanks for watching and taking time to comment. Currently the hardwire outlet is spurred to feed the 2 sockets. When hardwire is connected to a consumer unit I can get a true earth neutral bond at the RCD input and as the inverter is internally grounded to the chassis, my theory is to run a ground from chassis, undo the spurs and install the main inverter positive / earth & neutral into a rcd then connect the 2 sockets from the rcd out. In theory this would then protect the inverter sockets and give correct signal if I plug in a socket tester. It's just theory at the moment. It would be great if inverter manufacturers supplied them configured for use, even a 13a plug with a single earth wire from the inverter that would connect you to the existing earth circuit. Again, all theory for now. Would it work is the big question. 🤔
@@DCGUYinteresting.... Does your inverter allow you to connect the Neutral output to the Earth terminal/Earth stake without damaging it ?..
@@garyhellend8592 That's what I want to discover. I've contacted the manufacturer but no response yet. Won't attempt anything until I get clarification.
Have you tried testing the RCD with an RCD tester?
Have you tried bridging the Neutral to Earth without the earth connection to the house?
Hi, yes I have tested the RCD using a plug in RCD tester as well as the actual test button. Even with no physical earth connection these tests will still trip the rcd, however in a true fault condition any energy needs somewhere to go.
Hi again, i ended up buying a Edecoa 4500W 24v Hybrid Inverter. I have a issue at the moment with 135v on both Live and Neutral coming from the Input connection of the inverter. Why would voltage be coming out of the Input ?. This video was helpful i'm going to do this, maybe it could solve my issue?. Thanks for taking the time to make this video.
Don't do anything until you speak to the manufacturer. I am not familiar with your inverter, it may be internally bonded with a relay switch over. This video is only relevant for the model shown for safety earthing via RCD
@@DCGUY Thanks have emailed the supplier.
If you touch the wires coming out of the inverter Will I get electrocuted?
What would common sense tell you?
Great video. Do you see any issue connecting two inverters' neutral to earth? Both of them are off-grid inverter, but the earth system is shared with the regular 220V. I don't see any apparent issue, but I may be wrong. Thanks!!
Many off grid inverters are designed for parallel use and in theory it should be ok but really depends what inverters you're using. The manufacturer is best placed to advise you though to clear any doubt.
Hi, please give me some advice about grounding the photovoltaic installation. My entire 8KW system is totally separate from the main system. We have made a separate dedicated grounding installation for this system + dedicated sockets for vital consumers. Question: Do I connect the inverter and solar panels + battery bank together to this ground? My doubt is about the inverter- I don't know if it should be connected to the main grounding system. Thanks
Not being an electrician I can't really advise on the best way to properly ground your system. You need to check the inverter manufacturer manual to see if its bonded internally. There are some good forums full of information on the subject but if in doubt you should consult a professional electrician.
Hi DC Guy .Great video and explanation.
Just a quick question : Could that link be mate between Neutral bar and Earth bar in your consumer unit or definitely need to be made between Earth bar and RCD income Neutral terminal as you shown it?
Many thanks .
RCD input as shown. The rcd protection is critical on the consumer unit output. If in doubt always consult a professional 👌
If you link the neutral and earth bars together it will trip the RCD because the neutral bar is on the output side of the RCD.
@@DCGUY You are correct in saying that a type B RCD is the correct choice but I think the RCD in your demonstration is a type A, I don't think BG manufactures a type B yet, correct me if I'm wrong.
Hi. Great video. Thank you. Presumably if you had taken power from the inverter to the CU via one of the inverter plug in sockets, with the other end of the cable wired into the CU, your bridge would have worked as well? Many thanks
Yes that's correct, but for my personal needs I used the hard wire output as the maximum AC output is about 16 Amps, so presumably 8A safely from each socket.
@@DCGUY Thank you
In my work van I want to set up some sockets inside it ro charge batteries on the go, but I also want to use my chop saw in the van or my table saw to save me hauling all my tools out to a driveway in the winter months. All connected Ted to my festool extractor. Is this possible. Thanks in advance for any advice.
Ian
Yes, its all possible. Calculate your power draw expectations, that will give you an idea of inverter wattage and battery requirements. A dc to dc charger would be more efficient for charging batteries on the move.
Sorry to clarify, pressing the yellow button on the RCD itself does not prove that your circuit actually works for a ground fault. It's just tests that the RCD unit has not burned out. Cheers.
Correct, that's why correct earthing is essential from CU
Offgrid here.
My breaker at the house is grounded.
My enverter at the powerhouse ( panels and batteries and enverter) is not and says (Open ground ).
Some say not to ground .it would creat a ground loop ! ?
That makes sense. You couldn't share the same consumer unit as your AC system is using, hence i have a separate system, including wiring. Earth loops can happen if there is 2 earth points in the same proximity, It can get very complicated for sure!
My Eco Worthy 3000W off grid inverter won't charge my EV until I bond neutral and earth at AC breaker, but once connected direct plug into inverter also works (with no bonding inverter on L to N 233v L to E and N to E both 0v).
Did you connect N and E together on the inverter? i have same inverter when i plug EVSE in it says ground fault.
Useful, thanks.
Thank you
Thanks, this has solved the issue with my inverter in my van. Everything seems to be working now.
My inverter has an option for bypass mode, which I have currently disconnected due to the bonding.
With the neutral and earth bonded, will this matter when the inverter is in bypass mode? Essentially, will it bond the neutral and earth on the ring main of the house?
Thanks
Many inverters with internal bonding will only bond neutral and ground when in bypass mode, or when using grid power to charge the batteries and when in inverter mode there is no bonding which causes the reverse neutral error. If you have removed the bonding in the inverter then the bonding will take place at the consumer unit when in inverter mode only. I am assuming you have the inverter connected to the grid via a separate consumer unit for charging via a dedicated RCD / MCB and if so the inverter will use that bond during charge and when it switches to inverter it uses the upstream consumer unit. If it were to go into bypass mode for any reason the chances are the RCD from main consumer feed may trip as it will see the upstream RCD and bond. Every Inverter is different and I haven't personally trialled this scenario but would be interested to know what your own findings are as it may help others as I only know my own unit in detail.
@@DCGUY Thanks for your reply.
I will do some testing tomorrow to better understand the behaviour of my setup. Just to confirm, I am using a Renogy 2000W inverter. When the inverter is in bypass mode, it runs via another RCBO, which is also used for the battery charger.
My Question:
If the upstream RCD/MCB (or RCBO in my case) detects the second bonding, will it trip, or could it remain live, potentially running with a ground loop?
I’ll share my findings with you once I have tested it.
Thanks again for your help!
I please let me know your findings, I have wanted to actually test this inverter in this exact situation to see what occurs.
@@DCGUY Hi, I just popped out and tested. It does trip the house's RCD. Have you seen this video ua-cam.com/video/xzDEyC_zpaU/v-deo.html Renogy told him to bond earth with the 12V negative, but then the UPS feature will no longer work however RCD protection is working.
I have looked at getting a transfer switch to solve my problem. I have been considering one from Offgridtec, and the manual says:
"Do not connect the neutral conductor on the consumer side to earth or protective earth conductor; as the consumer sockets in particular have no protective multiple earthing (i.e., connection of PE-grounding wire with the neutral connector)."
"If the inverter has no earth connection, the battery terminal which is connected to earth must be connected to the protective earth conductor."
I think this essentially means earthing at the CU to the chassis, similar to what the guy did in the video.
Any thoughts about bonding earth to the 12V negative instead of the 240V neutral?
@prldoyle I will need to research this more. Many thanks for the feedback, it is very much appreciated 👏
How many mm is that blue neutral wire please?
From AC out, I'm using 2.5mm twin and earth
Brilliant video Fella, I was having this problem on my setup since it started but doing what you have done has cured it, my only problem now is I have a hybrid invertor and when there is heavy rain it trips the rcd in the house which is supplying power to it, the power from the house to my shed goes to a small consumer unit which in turn goes to another consumer unit in my solar shed which powers the inverter, have you any thoughts on what could be causing this, all connections in the solar panels are dry and out of the rain ( all undercover ) the inverter works fine but as soon as I plug it into the mains it will trip the rcd in the house but not the 2 consumer units in the sheds, and they are the same rcd specs as the one in the house, I'm still using it but I have to make sure the batteries do not go under the charge before it turns its self off, any help would be greatly appreciated as I am lost, thanks Brian
Interesting issue. By hybrid I'm assuming it has input from the grid. If so it most likely has an internal bond to neutral and uses the same earthing line. Best check with the manufacturer to clarify. You may end up having to go with a TT earth, but again I can't be certain. Weird why it trips rcd when it's raining, obviously some leakage in the cabling from house to shed, so double check the cables. A simple nick in the insulation may be allowing water ingress.
@@DCGUY Hi, thanks for the reply, the cable that goes to the shed from the house is underground and in conduit, all the cable is new and no nicks or any loose connections, all the sockets have been tested and there are no faults in any of them, I just don't understand how the rcd's in the two small consumer units do not trip but the house one does, if I unplug the inverter from the socket supplying ac from the house everything is fine, I guess it must be the inverter, it has live, earth and neutral connections for the house ac going in but only live and neutral connections for the ac coming out with a small connection on the case for earth, could I connect the earth from the case also to the earth on the ac input or would that make things worse, its a pain at the moment, so much so I am thinking of getting a battery charger to charge the batteries up when they get low on a night and also on cloudy days and just use the inverter for ac out and to charge the batteries when there's enough sun, sorry for banging on ☹
Doesn't explain why it trips if its raining. Sounds like the inverter is internally bonded. The rcd is detecting a difference in voltage between earth and neutral either from or too the inverter. Ask the manufacturer about the internal bonding. Some can be safely removed but again check with the manufacturer and goes without saying don't do anything if in doubt. A local sparky may be able to check the bonding for you.
@@DCGUY Hi, thank you, I bought the inverter off flea bay last year for £280, bad move I know but I'm learning fast, buy cheap, buy twice, I tried to get InTouch with them but surprise, surprise, no reply, the ac output and solar works fine now after I followed your instructions for the plug tester and how to fix it ( thanks again ) but would it be possible to buy a battery charger and charge the batteries on a night or in low cloud so i can attach more things to the solar side, thanks Brian
You could, but it wouldn't be very efficient due to the inverters losses.
Hi DC guy and ty for video. I have followed your solution to the earthing when using my inverter. When I switch on the 240v output from the inverter my socket tester briefly shows the correct earthing on the socket, however, within a second the inverter cuts off the output. I think what’s happening is the inverter is seeing the neutral to earth short circuit and shutting down the power output. Have you come across this before? Any ideas how I may get round this?
Are you using this exact inverter from edecoa? Are you hardwired to a consumer unit using an RCD? Are your sockets from mcb wired in the correct polarity? E.g neutral/live in correct order?
More questions than answers at the moment, but the more info the better. Cheers 🍻
@@DCGUY hey there ty for reply. No not the same inverter. I’m sure I have my wiring correct as triple checked it also the socket tester shown as correct for the second it’s lit up. RCD and MCB’s are all correctly wired as well. It just the inverter that appears to be setup to shut down the power when it sees the neutral to earth short circuit. I’m thinking the inverter can only be used for an IT earthing system and the one output socket. If I remove the neutral to earth bind the inverter works fine but of course I have an unsafe installation due to no bond to true earth and no return earth path.
Thanks for the reply. It may be what they call a center tapped inverter which as you stated are IT specific. Some can be modified by removing the centre tap, but you will need to ask the manufacturer specifically what tap to remove.
Very intuitive!👍..Thank you very much
You are very welcome
Hi. Really useful video. I have the same inverter. Does this mean, by doing this, I can take more than one socket off my consumer unit. Can I now connect the lighting circuit and socket ring main to my consumer unit in ky static caravan. Thank you.
Hi, thanks for watching and taking time to comment 🙏 it's appreciated. Yes, as long as the CU is not connected to mains power
@@DCGUY Thanks again. I have my earthing rod connected from my consumer unit, which I presume is all I need to earth my whole system and inverter. One other question you may be able to help me with. We use a generator as back up and to run the washing machine. If this is earthed from another earthing rod could it cause any issues if there is a fault. I have read elsewhere to be wary of having more than one earthing point in case a charge could go through equipment to get to the earthing rod. Am I unduly concerned. Thanks again dcguy.
I'm afraid I can't say for sure as it's not something I've personally done and would refer to the manufacturer of the generator for guidance. Also www.hse.gov.uk/foi/internalops/ocs/400-499/oc482_2.htm gives some details.
AFAIK the neutral in those inverters is 120v out of phase with the L which is also 120v
L to N = 240v
L to E = 120v
N to E = 120v
So if you connect the inverters neutral to it's earth at the RCD are you not introducing a voltage of 120v across everything in your house that is connected to earth when the inverter is on? If so this doesn't sound like a good idea?
While I understand your logic, indeed it's a very topical subject but in simple terms there is no current flowing along the earth as it is floating from the inverter to the cu. It is essentially the same as the power coming into your home from the grid. Earth leakages can and do occur in some systems but not in my set up. The rcd is there to detect any leakages which would trip instantly in such a case. Lots of reading materials online on the subject but it will probably give you a headache 😀
OK humour me for a minute. Your RCD triggers. The circuit breaker triggers. Live is cut off. BUT neutral isn't because it's connected to the earth of your house system and because the inverter basically uses neutral as a 2nd live @120v out of phase with 1st live (L) the earth wire is the same 120v and none of the protection has changed this@@DCGUY That's my worry? What about connecting the earth to the other side of the RCD on the Neutral. That way if things trip both L1 and L2(Neutral) from the inverter are blocked from everything. ??
Electricity as like water will always take the path of least resistance and the logic is to divert any Electricity to a place that won't kill you in the event of a fault. Inverter manufacturers work on the principle that no one will touch both live and neutral at the same time just like the dno in a way and while 120v will give you a kick it isn't enough to kill you, least in theory. This is why they bond ground to the neutral to divert the flow at the cu rcd which only kills power downstream from there. The inverter will still invert but it can't use the earth as a path and if the fault is within the inverter itself, its internal safety features should kick in too This may be something better explained in video than words. Also check . electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/277741/confusion-with-rcd-principle-of-operation and the other info out there and on solar forums where its covered in more and better details than I can provide here. It is a very confusing topic. Also check out Roland w on youtube.
Thanks for the replies much appreciated. My understanding is that in order to make devices 'safe' when plugged in to sockets after the rcd and breaker you've had to make the earth of your home like a finger stuck in the N of the inverter which is not a true N but a 2nd live at 120v which won't kill in theory. I'll just stick to using devices with plenty of plastic around them I think :-)
@@Gravitational234 I have no concerns with anything downstream of the rcd and cu but these days almost everything is class 2
Hi, do you think this inverter would run a well pump 1.5kw, 1hp ?. Thanks
I don't see why it wouldn't as long as the start surge is below the peak 7000w look at the pumps surge ratings.
@@DCGUY Thank you 🙂
I got a growatt inverter in aus and it has a bonded neutral earth in the inverter when in battery mode, not sure if that changes if its passing through from the mains/generator input so will have to test it.
Can you share your findings please as it will help others. Cheers 🍻
So I got time to check it today.
When inverter has ac input connected (without ground) and inverter is off:
L to E reads 82V, N to E reads 93V, L to N reads 11v, input voltage is 249V (seems high here 🤷♂️)
When I turn on inverter (still without mains ground connected) L to E reads 121V, N to E reads 127v, L to N 249V. Seems the internal bond is disconnected.
Now with mains ground connected and inverter off L to E 6.2V, N to E 2.7V, L to N 6.2V.
Now with inverter switched on, L to E 249V, N to E 2.5V, L to N 249V.
The above was with no battery or solar connected. It's a growatt SPF 3500 es
Thanks for that 🍻
how is best to earth a 2000w inverter for use in the outdoors using a battery.. its to move about different places incl camping etc. so wont have any permanent true earth points many thanks
There's not much choice, If not in a vehicle where the chassis can be used, you'll be relying on the battery negative and where possible use class 2 equipment e.g most appliances including TVs, hair dryers etc don't have exposed metal parts, unlike larger class 1 items like fridges.. This mitigates some risks as will the inverter as it will likely have some internal protections.
@@DCGUY many thanks for getting back to me. its for general outdoor use... and also running a heater or dehumidifier on a boat parked dry on land.. would a rcd plug be beneficcial to plug into the inverter ac output , i just want to prevent any nasty shocks of course. also can the inverter itself become electrified if not earthed.. resulting in a shock if i touch it when for example turning it off , or am i overthinking this. many thanks 👍 i will be running a 2000w pure sine on a 105ah 12v lifepo4... and may also run 2 of in series , or 2 in parallel depending on my uses... just trying to keep safe and do things right.. ive had 1 too many shocks in my life (from unrelated circumstances) 😅
@@craigmorton644 Yes, probably over thinking things, but safety is obviously important. An rcd won't do anything unless the inverter is center tapped, most aren't. Batteries in parallel voltage stays the same but amp hours increase. Series connection will double the voltage, amp hours stay the same. If its a 12v inverter you can't use a series connection using 2 x 12v batteries Only do this if the inverter is a 24v one. Most inverters do have internal protection against leakage.
@@DCGUY perfect many thanks. yes its a 12v inverter... i would only switch to 24v battery setup for running a 24v outboard direct from battery... or getting more solar watts into the battery using my victron 100/20 mppt as from what i remember the output capability on these doubles as your battery bank volts increase 12/24/36/48.. as you say overthinking isn't the best, but at least it keeps you safe from making any silly dangerous mistakes that could cost you dearly 😅👍 appreciate you buddy!
Thanks for the video. I don’t think I understand this still. I will watch more to make sure I do. I have renogy inverter\charger 2in1 unit. Feeds off shore power and a 12v battery as well. No idea how to wire it up safely and where to put my rcbs. One before and one after the inverter? Someone told me there is no point putting it after. I’m confused(I know get professional help, but I also don’t trust something somebody do for me I don’t understand myself) I believe my inverter has no neutral ground bond. I also not sure what internal protection is present if any. 😓🤯 going deeper down the rabbit hole
I'm not familiar with that inverter/charger. Saying that though if it accepts shore power there must be internal bonding. Again hard to say for certain but is it currently grounded to chassis? Does it currently have hardwire option or are you intending to feed a supply off the existing inverter socket outlets. It's not wise to run extension cables from an inverter socket despite what some youtube channels suggest. So please be careful. RCDs protect downstream from main electrical supply e.g mains power or inverter. So sequence is just like your homes energy supply. Mains come in and feed via a main fuse to a meter and then onto a consumer unit. The main supply feeds an RCD which in turn supplies the Busbar that holds MCBs, surge protection etc. Each MCB feeds a run of cable which is rated for intentions. E.g lights, cookers, tumble dryer, shower etc etc. Each is rated in amps, cable must be able to handle x current as does the mcbs. Remember Fuses protect cables. Don't do anything if you aren't sure. Electricity is dangerous to life. Better to pay a pro once and youll sleep easier.
@@DCGUY thanks for getting back to me. I appreciate it you are genuine guy!
@@DCGUY so according to another UA-cam comment regarding Renogy inverter/charger issue: “I'm installing this and when on shore power my AC outlet tester shows everything is wired correctly. When I take it off shore power and it runs on my battery the AC tester shows open ground error" this is my worry , what would you recommend ?
It's a pity the inverter/charger has no internal transfer switch over. Many do, but sounds like yours lacks this function. As such I would look at adding a transfer switch, 4 pole, 2 normally open, 2 normally closed. I'm sure there will be a how too on the Internet regarding set up as I'm sure this is a common issue people face. Let me know how you get on, sorry I can't give specific instructions.
Connecting the House earthing to the CU as shown in the video is pointless.
No electricity will flow through the house earthing, unless there’s another connection between the house earthing and the inverter.
The inverter is also bonded to the system.
Why do i get 80 v ac on my ground my zinc shack?. On one hybrid i got one volt on ac input. Sp my other cant push ac charge out. As voltage measured it cuts out. One 48 v solar array hybrid . Other 25 wind solar hybrid. 24 v side i was wanting ac charge. But instead put in ac switchover. To breaker box. But why the big voptages ground on machine to zinc siding. Same to ground rod from ac hot 80 v. 160 v nuetral
DC guy I need see the video on how you wired consumer unit to inverter
Hi, can you elaborate a liitle? What connection are you unsure about?
I’m using Type ST and 10 AWG cable going from the inverter to a transfer switch
How would you do this in a campervan ,
This is a slightly different set up and depends on the inverter your using, what AC items you use and their class ratings. Vast majority of items are class 2 these days and as such true earthing isn't required. Some inverters can simply be bonded to chassis some don't need to be so best check with the manufacturer for specific info.
@@DCGUYthanks for the great content and the camper has a factory setup but I am going to put a 3000w renogy inverter with a 240v pass through so just need to make sure it’s all safe cheers
Hi could you email me a detailed diagram or pix of how you have it wired up as I'm not convinced i have my system earthed probably I'm totally off-grid and no earth from mains only a rod in the ground about a foot and a half deep any pix or diagram would be much appreciated if you don't mind cheers 👍
It's probably wiser to consult your inverter manufacturer for info, they are so different and there is no one fix for all.
@@DCGUY ok cheers
Found the full video 😁👍
Be carefull, there are some inverters around, usually older ones, on which the ground is not floating, but really is in the middle of phases.
In this case, you will create a shortcut doing what you are showing. You can still make it work, but then you will have to disconnect the ground wire from the inverter and isolate the housing from the rest of your system. Not a very elegant solution. You could also leave your ground as it is and not bond the neutral, your rcd will still work just as it is in split phase systems. If you switch over from grid to inverter you must also switch the neutral. But you should do that anyway. I have such an inverter running on solar in the shed, and switching over to the grid sometimes. For the rest, nice video.👍
Thanks for watching and taking time to comment. I like to think that people wouldn't attempt anything i do without knowing what they are doing or doing their homework. Your correct in saying not all inverters are the same, so this is why its important to know your inverters set up. Cheers !
Hi! I had a small solar system I stall that worked very well. After a couple of years the inverter died and I’m replacing it with the ame Edecoa 3000watt inverter. Unfortunately I did not take photos before I removed the old one and can’t remember how to connect the three wires (white, green and black from a Type ST AWG cable) into the front-center Output AC 120V. This cable connects to a transfer switch so I can power almost everything I need during power outages (except a/c, tankless water heater and stove)
If I have a cable with a white wire, a black wire and a green wire, which wire should go to L (left side inlet) which one should go to N (right side inlet) and which would go the middle inlet?
White is normally neutral, black is the hot or live and green is usually earth on 120v systems. You can double check if in doubt using a multi meter or have an electrician do this for you. The terminals are usually clearly marked to show what wire goes where.
White is usually neutral, black is live or hot, green is earth. If in doubt get an electrician.
Any idea if the Eco worthy inverter is like this? As I've been worried about the safety aspect on my set up.
I'm afraid I don't know the answer Adrian. Sorry.
@@DCGUY just an update that might help (maybe) it's a 1500w PSW inverter 24vdc - 220vac.
L-N is 220vac
L-E is 19.95vac
N-E is 1.90vac
My socket tester just shows an earth fault.
A continuity test between the inverter case and the earth pin (in the socket) show no continuity between the two.
Any further thoughts or advice would be helpful.
Thanks
@@adrianmaguire5459 I can't find definitive answer as to who manufacturers the actual inverter board, but what you say is a typical floating earth. The AC output is limited to 2 outlets, no hardwire option and has no true earth bond option without making changes to the board (not advisable). Seems that most manufacturers side step the issue as they presume they will most likely be used with class 2 appliances which are double insulated e.g televisions. In the unlikely event of a true earth fault the isolation transformer inside the inverter will cut power as in class 3 scenarios. So in essence as long as you use the inverter as designed you need not do anything or have concern. Some, but not all inverters will have a small external grounding point clearly marked and I doubt yours will but if there is one, it can be attached to a vehicle chassis or battery negative. Sorry I can't really say much more, its a minefield when discussing grounding inverters.
@@DCGUY shame! Most items that are plugged in are class 2 but when the sun is up I like to plug the fridge in (class 1) and some of the power tools I use are also class 1
You said in one other post there are forums covering this subject! Can you name any so I can research further.
Thanks for your response and a great video.
@@adrianmaguire5459 diysolarforum.com while mostly American has lots of info. If you Google inverter grounding you will get lots of info, I personally wouldn't be concerned about using power tools or refrigerator etc as the inverter is designed to prevent electrical shock.