Thompson Grinder Restoration: Making and Installing a Pair of Spur Gears for the Table Feed
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- Опубліковано 10 вер 2023
- Thompson Grinder Restoration: Making and Installing a Pair of Spur Gears for the Table Feed
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Right, wrong, or indifferent................I never get tired of watching you manufacture your own gears from scratch.😊👍
Plainly, I just love these "lets make some parts" movies :-). Nothing better as early morning entertainment with at nice cup of coffee.
Thank you for your videos Keith, I get great Solice watching you.
Watching you make gears is one of my favorite things on your channel. It's just so satisfying.
Same I have enjoyed watching Keith make gears. ;)
Another great vidoe. I like the format of being able to get the whole project segment into one time fream.
Love watching your work and you look healthier!
I thought the editing of this video was great, smooth transitions, told the story very well, and just the right amount of machining time.
A trick we used to use whem making gears that need to mesh together well, we would put a bit of lapping compound on the teeth and run them against each other and that will smooth out any high spots or chatter on the face. Then of course clean all the grit off and lubricate them and away you go....
thats how they finish ring and pinion gears to make them quiet.
A little oil on everything upon assembly would go a long way to a smooth mechanism too.
love watching you make gears keith
I would say you are right, that hand wheel shaft is probably bent. After all that gear trauma I would not be surprised. 😊
Hope you have a great day today thanks for sharing
I liked the explanation for the details about your order of operations
watching you cut gears never get old. love it. thanks Keith
Keith loves to make gears. Guess that someone else might be happy to get the old ones to remake. Win-win-win.
Nice watching.
Another good video as usual. Just a couple of weeks ago I replace the 13 tooth pinion gear that meshes with the rack on my, new to me, Rockwell lathe. It was cheaper to get a set of cutters and make the gear my self than to have a shop do a one off. Your other gear cutting videos convinced me I could do it.Thanks so much.
I just love the gear making parts. I know how difficult gear making can be; I did it yrs ago when I was a young machinist starting out.
Thank you Keith it is a pleasure as always. 😊
G'day mate, greetings from down under.
Another great video. 👍
Your weight loss program is definitely showing results, I'm sure your good wife and co are happy. 😊👍
I know you love making new gears to replace damaged ones but I'd love, just once, see you repairing a gear - please!
Have a look in Keith's back catalogue, he has done quite a few bronze repairs and re cutting of gear teeth, I think it is the slimmer version that likes making new ones 😂
Thanks for the vide Keith, Nice job on the gear making. It is always a surprise to see what you are doing next,
That grinder is a beast. It’s looking good.
Thank you Keith!
Here's a thought Keith. It's obvious how those gears were messed up somebody left it in the up position while the table ran. Maybe you could do something like painting it red when it's turned into position and green when it's turned down or design some fail safe system like a rod sticking up above the table that would be obviously in the way so that you won't have to make new gears again. Just an ideal cause its pretty obvious what boogered everything up to begin with
Thanks Keith
As a bonus, now you are sure those jaws are hardened.
Man, I see you doing this and the night mare of one of my efforts in making a gear, 70 years ago, was "Do you want one big tooth or two little ones?" Fortunately the boss forgave my mess and told me to go make another one. I got the second one right.
Nice work Keith.
I agree with you decision to make the new gears.
There definitely is a bind going on with the shaft and drive gear.
Great idea to make a new one.
It will be like new then.
The Thompson is looking great.👍
Thanks for sharing.
Have a great day.
Looking very slim and trim Keith. Good job.
yeah he's just quietly gotten smaller the last year.
I noticed that too. 👍 well done Keith
The grinder looks really nice, like brand new.
the repair and making the new gear is probably nearly equal. but. making a new piece is just satisfying. and you know its gonna last. plus it makes a cool video!! thanks keith!!
The manual control is great for fussy work. Wish my Thompson had that. As it is now mine is really only good for flat work.
I'm not a machinist, but I love it when people make gears! At 7:23, when you were machining the blanks, I saw a spark. Mostly, on UA-cam videos at least, a spark means a broken cutter. However, in this case the cutter was not damaged. It did look like there was something on the outer surface of the cast-iron blank. Was there perhaps a hard spot or an embedded chunk of grit?
I think he hit the chuck jaw.
@@MikeB0001definitely nicked the jaws, happens to the best of us eventually
Keith, something I wanted to suggest for a while now: Try to go without the text panel at the beginning of the videos and open with your introductory shot right away. Monitor what it does to your UA-cam numbers for maybe 1-2 month. If you want to reference the project the video belongs to, do it with a banner at the bottom of the screen. I think it will improve things as far as viewers are concerned that get randomly suggested your videos by UA-cam.
its a fierce competition and your suggestion would probably help.
very interesting , I like your work. Thank you
You are doing a lot of work to make that grinder nice again, to that point, I think you need to make that small shaft and gear for the handwheel. There are a lot of jobs in a shop that are worse than sitting and cutting gears, even 88 tooth little 0.8 mod metric gears, it's kind of relaxing.
One observation that may be a cause of the binding is that the pre ream hole (with the dull drill) was wobbling a bit and therefore the reamed hole also had some runout causing the gears to mesh too tight at one spot. Just my two cents but it might not be the small gear. Great video! Thank you!
Bore runout is not an issue as the blank is mounted on an arbor for gear cutting, so gear teeth are coaxial with the bore.
@@martinchabot_FRoops, you are right. I missed that detail in the video, thanks for the correction. Still seems like the large gears are binding but it will be interesting to see a closer investigation.
Thank you for sharing.👍
2nd gear shaft is rotating with the nut on the front side, meaning it must be locked with the gear
it would be nice to see a process of wearing in new gears to work smoother though
Looking good.
Most excellent.
Good job.
As much as I love your channel and the things you do, I would be eternally grateful if you could share how you have lost so much weight! As a retired machinist I have tried just about every diet/exercise program on the planet with very little success. Thanks for the content, Great job!!
I lost 91lbs. Keep a journal of everything that you consume and it's caloric.values
Also avoid eating "white" things.....sugar, bread, rice, potato, milk ,cheese, butter.
I eat 2 meals per day 10:30 brunch and 5:00 dinner. The meals should have lots (4x) of colorful vegetables and fruit plus a lean meat. Chicken breast, pork loin , fish are good. Flavor your food with spices rather than sauces. Olive oil is low calories. Avoid coffee shops, fast food ,packaged junk and booze as they very high empty useless calories.....worked for me it only took 5 months and you will feel great while you save money! I lost my diabetes, high blood pressure, sleep apnea, lower back pain and now have more energy and feel 110 %
Look at Keith!
I lost 50 lbs just using the weight watchers app. I appreciated that I never felt like I was being told I’m “not allowed” to eat certain things, it just helped me create a budget of my daily “point” intake and be aware that if I chose to indulge myself in the moment I’d just have to pay for it later by maybe forgoing that beer after work that I wanted.
Think about what you eat and what foods you truly enjoy, versus the kind of food you just eat for convenience and as something to fill your stomach, and consider whether what you’re thinking of eating is going to be so good it’s worth the point intake. For me, many times I realized whatever it was just wasn’t that good - pizza, burgers, fast food in general; also soda and floofy coffee drinks from the likes of Starbucks.
My proteins of choice tended to be chicken, fish, and eggs; all of these are low points and filling. Get your green vegetables in. Carbs like rice and potatoes are ok in moderation, they fill you up and give you a nice energy boost. Also, maybe try to find a fruit of some kind that you like that you can keep a stash of for when you need a snack, because portion control will get to you sometimes 😅 juice is not your friend no matter how many vitamins and minerals it supposedly has, but some cut up whole fruit is free.
Decide what your vice is going to be; saying you’ll cut everything is unrealistic and discouraging. Mine was booze, so I made sure to save up some points so I could have a beer or a whiskey if I wanted.
And you know, if you do decide to splurge, don’t feel bad about it, just get back on the wagon the next day. You won’t see quick results; it took me about 9 months, but one foot in front of the other, one day at a time, eventually you’ll get there and it’s totally worth it. I got my blood chemistry back to normal, felt a lot better, and felt like I looked a lot better.
With respect to the debates you get into over whether or not to replace an entire gear rather than recut teeth. Surely they are your machines, you are using traditionally used skills, manufacturing items from traditional materials on machines that would have traditionally been used to make the original items in the first place. That's about as good as its going to get! Keep on mate, you do what you think is best.
Wonderful job! The only thing I would have done differently, would have been to use a boring bàr for the shaft hole in the gear, as just a drill and reamer does not necessarily mean the bore is perpendicular to the gear sides . Using the boring bar would have insured that. A good chuck and dialed in tailstock helps, but for my setup, the boring bar is the deal .
I agree. Watching the video you could see the drill wobble indicating the hole not being on center. And not screwing the gear onto the mandrel. As soon as the gear stopped going smoothly onto the mandrel he should have stopped and removed any burrs on the threads. The bushing is now damaged unless he replaced it without showing it.
Very interesting video! I have a bit of experience on gear manufacturing so I know that giving the right backlash isn’t a funny thing. It seems that if you would had cut deeper the bigger gear you would have fixed the stiffness in rotating. I believe that it would worth trying to straighten the hand-wheel shaft. Nice job and beautiful machine.
Good morning Keith. Looking very nice. Thanks for the videos.
Hi there I watch avidly your vids. I was indentured in the UK working in the machine shops and then the DO. After 50 years in engineering we never tire of these type of vids. Do you think that when setting the blank in the chuck you could have put the reamer in the tail stock and the blank on the reamer and offered them up to the the chuck rather than the tapping method?
That was fun:) I was thinking about the other machine you were working on where a young engineer was helping you come up with a way to power and control it. I don't remember a conclusion to the series. Did I miss it? Can anyone point me to it?
I checked and found the Monarch 10EE Drive Conversion playlist. The last video on there was almost a year ago and things weren't quite working then. I wonder if there's progress that didn't make it into a video or a video that didn't make it into the playlist.
Found a video Monarch 10EE DC Drive Retrofit: Project Update and Testing the DC Drive Under Load from 6 months ago that just isn't in the playlist. Still not the end, though. Didn't find anything since. Hope the project is still going:)
as far as i recall. the 10ee is still in the works. he just hasnt made videos on it. when i was at his shop on the work day i saw it getting torn apart for repairs and the electronics being worked on. i agree i hope to see it in another vid.
About the damage, it was probably some metal falling down between the gear that ruined it.
Maybe some cover would be a good idea.
Did you notice the stub/pinion shaft directly above the engagement cam (36:30-37:00) was rotating in the housing? Pretty sure THAT ain't supposed to happen, since it doesn't ride in a bushing in the housing. Might be part of the problem with the assembly not turning smoothly. Honestly, I would key those shafts to the housing and use the nuts on the exterior face to adjust the tension on the gears using spring washers. Just a thought/idea. Splendid work as usual though!!!
Did you catch the chuck jaw with that Keith? Think we've all done it. That iron turns nice
Keith, maybe check the order of the gears, it would be more of a reduction if the two gear were switched
Glen
It's early in the viseo ,but are you gonna put the set screws in it ?
Hey Who's that skinny crop scientist making gears! 8-) Looking good Keith!
Your lathe cutters seem like they could use a little honing these days.
Question; Why a bushing in the compound gear. Could you have saved a step and made the spear gear to fit the I.D. of the larger gear?
Which sharpening process do you use for your drill bits? THX! St Marys, GA🇺🇸⚓️
what about valve grinding compound between to offending stiff gears as long as you clean it all off after you run them in?
You weren't taking pictures when you took this thing apart?
What kind of oil do you use when you are cutting on the lathe and milling machine?
Yes, next video - new shaft and new gear. Keith would go bonkers using the grinder the way it is. 😡
Nice!! :-)
Really nice camera work! Please forgive a possibly stupid question: Did I understand you to say that the gear pitch on the large gear and the small gear was different, which was why you needed a different cutter for each one? Wouldn't they need to be the same to mesh correctly? Thank you.
Diametral pitch and the pitch diameter of a gear are different things. Pitch diameter is the size of the circle inscribed where the gear teeth mesh. Diametral pitch is the number of teeth per inch of gear circumference which should match in meshing gears. Pitch diameter is the actual size of the gear which is different.
@@millwrightrick1 I see. Thank you.
There’s just something about gear cutting. I only wish I could find the 22DP 20PA cutters I need…
Love the videos with the gear cutting Keith. Must say that the dividing head is one big one.
I have to say you need to go shopping for some new tee shirts, I have gone down by 50lb over the last 5 months and I'm in a similar position, though I'm waiting to get rid of the next 28lbs before I buy some new ones.
Small gear is pressed in a bushing the other is brass bearing
When you tightened everything up I hope you noticed that not on that gear in the front was spinning.
Keith, if the original in cast iron spectacularly failed, what is your reasoning for making the new gear wheel from the original material, which is liable to secondary failure, when surely the better decision would have been to make the new component from high tensile steel.
Design question, The original gear was presumably broken by having the manual drive engaged when the table was on automatic feed. That is clearly not an impossible accident, as their seems to be no interlock preventing it. In such an event the gear stripping is fairly limited damage. If that gear was stronger, and an unstoppable force met an immovable object the gear train may fail in a more expensive place, like the rack on the bottom of the table, which would be a much more expensive repair, and put the machine out of action completely, rather than simply spoiling the manual motion control. Such design/development experience will have been lost long ago. Thus Keith's preference for maintaining the original material is a very wise one. Making a part stronger than the original design is something to do with considerable care and understanding of the original design decisions. Especially as there does not seem to be any sheer pin or other planned failure point in that drive chain.
@@harrymoyes5069 I was curious if there could be some kind of interlock function because the cam is keyed to the shaft it is on, & that shaft turns with the cam. So, it could be connected to an interlock inside (even just turning the hydraulic table feed on with that shaft) - if so, this should be checked, something could be damaged/missing, & really should be working. So many details come out with everyone watching the process!
👏
probably used the handle to strap it down(straining the shaft)
Daft question, Keith - Would you know if David Richards is OK - Not seen anything from him in the last 6 months.
I'm thinking that a gear is always repaired then you probably don't need half the machines in the shop. Besides why take the easy way out? Where's the fun in that!
Bore is not concentric with the stub that gets pressed in. Should have used a boring bar and done all operations at once. The face of the gear is less important.
yeah, he gonna be remaking that tiny pinion gear.... but, it make sense. Obviously that gear train had a big crash, locked up two gears and that tiny pinion, besides being worn out... bent under the pressure ever so slightly to make it a headache. yeah, he gonna be remaking that pinion gear.
If you only had a bench vise to hold that assembly.
Another satisfying video. Thank you.
awesome Keith but you know your going to manufacture a new gear and shaft for the drive gear so………………..
Nice job...is the diresta band saw complete?
Lack of maintenance and grinding swarf will eat gears for lunch.
I notice that sometimes you lube the bits and sometimes you don’t, please explain
Looks like you are slimming up.... :-)
8:42 That's way too fast and it put hole off center
Wait... didn't you put those gears on in the wrong positions?!
As you've assembled it, the (single) middle gear is just an idler. Surely the large end of the double gear should engage with the input shaft, then the single gear engages with the small end of the double gear. That way it's a compound gear train, and you'd get a bigger reduction ratio.
I think you're effectively stuck in high gear!!
I think you (briefly) held it in the correct position @31:10, but then assembled it in a different order starting from @31:26
Additionally - if it had previously been assembled the way that you've put it back together - then the "bad" gear would have damaged the input shaft's gear, which doesn't appear to be the case.
I wonder if it's intentionally designed so that you can assemble it either way? I.e. to have both "high" and "low" gear ratio options?
18:24 - Thank you! No need to repeat the entire process; go back and learn.
20:31 - Hate cast iron swarf! A rare-earth magnet under an aluminum foil 'pan' will collect it.
36:56 - Looks like some gear eccentricity there,
Funny to see that you don’t like reengineering stuff… I , as an mechanical engineer, always reengineer stuff that I see broken. 70% of stuff that brakes is a bad engineering. Because factory’s engineer to a budget , not to the best solution . And cast iron gears are cheaper then steel, surface hardened gears
Though cost and availability have always been considerations in developing products, that, in its day, was a premier piece of equipment. Given there does not seem to be an interlock preventing engaging the manual gear train while the powered traverse is active, this is probably not the first installation of this type to "crash" in this way. The lack of an electrical or mechanical interlock, or a sheer pin or other designed point of failure is probably the "bad engineering". Strengthening that gear would be unwise, as it's a fairly low impact failure, affecting the manual traverse only. Consider that the rack on the bottom of the table is also probably cast iron (and possibly cast into the table). A repeated accident of this type would then potentially lead to the failure of that rack, and the need to replace the table. The original manufacturer very probably encountered similar issues, probably once the kit was out in the hands of customers. Their best solution then was probably to leave as is, since retro fitting a real fix, by preventing the accident, would require extensive modifications. I wonder if one of those keys in the gear train could be replaced by a suitable sheer pin, or a safety switch fitted on the cam that engages manual feed, to shut of power to the powered traverse. Unfortunately, if that manual feed is engaged while the table is traversing at speed, I doubt simply dropping the power would prevent the crash. Lots of inertia in a cast iron table traversing at speed. So other than a better designed planned failure point in that drive train, retaining the brittle gear and being aware of the danger is probably the only practical solution.
@@harrymoyes5069 doesn’t fix the problem. You need to put the interlock. Just because it’s just cast gear doesn’t mean it’s safe. So it’s unlikely that the material that they chose is for safety.
Keith: I went on McMaster-Carr and ordered this piece.
Keith's Audience: Booooo
Keith: I too this hunk of iron and fabricated this piece.
Keith's Audience: Yay !!!
I love your dental work Kieth. All those teeth.
09:00 it is not your drill, your cutting speed is too fast
Repairing gears is for people who can't make their own replacements. 😁
don't talk so d33w33 much
Hi, you are so slim and trim, what’s your secret
It's off centre...as usual ffs Keith