Tormach AF50 bandsaw review
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- Опубліковано 8 вер 2024
- I have had this saw for about 2 months and while I am still figuring it out I think it is time for a review video. I have it running fairly well but I think there is still a little room for improvement. As soon as I made it I started getting length swings of .03"-.04". The fix was to increase the flow on the table feed cylinder on both ends. I then was getting my parts back to +/-.005" until the last two, which increased by .01". This thing is real picky about air pressure, it has to be just right. I also found out the pressure gage is about 30 psi off compared to the one on my compressor. I trust the one on the compressor more as it is decent quality made in the U.S. vs the China one that I have to tap with a piece of aluminum to get it to move.
If you get one of these then I suggest getting:
1) Extra fuses, it only comes with 2.
2) A M12x3mm acme nut to help the adjusting nut stay in place. McMaster #2198N12 for $15.17
3) Extra blades.
After I did this video I then sawed up 1/4"x1" bars, 12 at a time. Most of the parts were 3.394-8" with random 3.385"-3.405" swings that I haven't figured out yet, but I suspect fiddling with air speed and pressure may help. I am going to play with the gap for the proximity sensors too.
One pain in the ass issue is the smaller the stock the more it wants to rise in the saw clamps as the bars progress through them. I am having to push the stock down occasionally as the bars get cut, or else they raise 1/2"+ in the vise. This definitely keeps it from running unattended!
Thanks for the videos -I’m picking mine up friday
So glad to see an honest and detailed review! Thank you!
All the problems you mentioned are very common with Tormach equipment. I had the same experience with one of their mills. I had to fix a lot of stuff. They don't really sell machines. They sell hastily assembled kits that need to be adjusted, adapted, rebuilt, finished and fiddled with. Ultimately, you can make their stuff work in certain circumstances, but it rarely functions as easily or consistently as advertised. I appreciate you sharing your experience. I was hoping that since this is a much simpler machine than a mill, and since it's been several years since my purchase, they might have improved their quality, but seeing that blade bounce down into your stock does instill much confidence. I had to laugh when I saw that you had to hang plastic to keep the coolant from spraying all over the place. I had to hang two shower curtains inside my mill's full enclosure to keep coolant from drooling all over the floor.
Yeah, what I got was not a surprise but it is the right size for what I need, anything bigger wouldn't fit. Your description of a pre-assembled kit that needs to be fully inspected and adjusted is dead on. I had been designing a smaller version of this saw in my head for several years before it came out so I was expecting to modify it anyway. All in all I am quite happy with what I got for the price paid, but if they would just do a little better job in a few spots it would make it a far better saw.
I can't imagine having one of their mills. For the same price you can get an older high quality used VMC that's still in great shape. Do call the MTB up to find out how much support they will offer and how much it will cost. With Enshu it is $750 and excellent support. With Kitamura it is free and excellent. This isn't the case with everyone.
Helpful tip, have your compressor run at the max pressure it is rated for, then use a regulator to reduce pressure for each machine. That way you always have constant pressure. i.e. my compressor runs between 120~150 but is regulated to 100psi right after the tank, then each machine has another regulator/dryer/separator to reduce further.
I have it set to run 80-150 to reduce cycling when running my Kitamura. It uses a LOT of air so typically my compressor runs for 4 minutes and is off for 7. Both of my mills are Japanese so they want 60psi air. This is the only thing in my shop that wants higher air pressure.
You need to add a solid nylon or delrin roller, 1.5-2" dia on an arm that you can swing down on top of the stock back where the stock is feeding into the vise. Maybe even incorporate a stiff spring into it so there downward pressure but it allows some give.
That is what I was thinking but I would put it right above the rear roller, with a cantilevered weight to hold it down. There are nice mounting locations and holes right in front of that roller on both sides. But, after the last run of stock I am thinking that the vises are much of the problem and I should try to fix them first to see how much that helps.
1) The moving vise jaw on the saw lifts a lot, .075", so I am going to add a lock on it's stop so I can clamp it tight to the bed vs just using the lead screw to hold it in place. Similar to the lock on the shuttle vise. There are a few "issues" with the lead screw and crank wheel assembly so it should not be used to hold the jaw stop in place. Watching the jaw clamp the stock with the slop I can see the jaw lift quite a lot, lifting the stock in the process.
2) The flat head screws that hold the moving jaw to the air cylinder body on the shuttle are proud about .02" so I need to fix that and check all jaws to be sure they are perpendicular to the shuttle and saw beds, or tilted a tad to help push the stock down.
While I like the saw there are a few of those cheap Chinese sloppy hacks that need fixing.
what do they use to regulate the feed ram speed is the needle valve rite on the cylinder? i am in the middle of doing a diy version of this but with a evo saw!
That's what it looks like. It takes quite a few turns to make a difference. I would think it is a standard accessory for air cylinders. Probably a needle valve for the incomming air would be fine, no need to control both directions independantly.
So based off your video, and your reply on another question I asked you, I purchased one. I have it set up, sort of. Seeing how you have been using this thing for a bit, what pressure do you have your vice at? Tormach doesn’t say anything. Also, how did you slow down your shuttle vise? My SLAMS around….
I generally run my vises around 40 psi for what I cut and haven't had anything move so far. To adjust the speed of the air cylinders turn the metal knob with the locknuts on the fittings that the hoses press into. Not too fast and not too slow, it has to be juuuust right. I haven't been using the fastest blade speed but the second fastest. It seems to cut better with the extra torque. The motor just doesn't have the power to really use the fastest setting.
I need it to cut 1" thick steel flat bar 4 to ,6" wide
No problem as long as you slow the blade speed down, even sawing them laying down in the vise. I no longer use it's highest speed even cutting aluminum as it just doesn't have the power. Once I got it to run full bars fine, after fixing the loose fixed jaw clamp mount, I no longer care how long it takes to cut so have been running it at it's slowest speed after cutting some steel. It isn't much slower and the motor doesn't heat up as much. It still cuts up parts far faster than I can run them on my Brother R650. Load up enough bars to fill a 5 gallon bucket, push the green button, come back when I know it is done, and repeat. There is a lot of room for improvement on this saw but it does work fine. I have no regrets buying this saw, I just wish Tormach would do a little more to make it a lot better.
First thank you for doing the video, not many on this machine to be found. My question for you is, what would you say your average accuracy is? I know at one point you said it is .005 but at another point you said it was .010
I would say over half of my parts are +/-.003" when set up well. It is sensitive to shuttle speed, not too slow or fast. I am sure it can do better but I still need to check the vises and do a bit of work to the fixed one to solve some issues with it.
Knowing what you know now, would you buy it again?
Yes, absolutely. There are a few things that I need to fix but I think the basic machine is sound, considering the price. Since the video I cut 1,100 lbs of aluminum into 6,400 parts. After the first few cycles I never changed anything. I did have my corse Starrett blade crack so I ended up with a finer pitch blade than was optimum. I have since purchased a few 4 tpi blades to try on the next run.
@@cgpmachining Yeah, anything beats cutting through solid aluminum on a chop saw. That's why I was looking at it. I have the same base bandsaw. (The Tormach saw is the same model Harbor Freight sells for $1,100.) I find it to be underpowered for solid aluminum. You'll never get through the 6 by 8 inches of solid stock Tormach claims in its specs, without upgrading to a 2 or 3hp motor with a better torque curve for the rpms. (More fiddling!)
@@grappler185 Agreed about it being seriously underpowered with a 1 China hp motor, think Haas power. The solution for now is to use the second fastest speed most of the time. It really isn't any slower but at least you can take the correct chip load. The biggest cut so far was 2"x8" 6061 bar and it did it fine, in 3rd gear, laying flat so it was an 8" cut.
I do wonder if the gear box could handle 2-3 hp? Mine gets fairly hot after a few minutes of work.