I think players are still figuring out how to optimize resource management, which contributes to the "randomness". Players are just not good at this right now. They make inconsistent decisions if you look at it from the drive/super resource perspective. I really think this will be a defining component of what makes for a top player in the years ahead. I think the corner carry and consistent conversions are the main culprit here. This game snowballs incredibly hard in a way that Street Fighter traditionally has not. AND YET with the snowballing, one correct guess allows you to completely reverse momentum to where you're literally never out of it unless you're checkmated with no resources. And I have a feeling the spectator/esports angle has something to do with the design of it.
Counter is hitting the opponent during their attack, punish counter is hitting them during the recovery frames of the attack, that part of the game is very predictable.
I you misunderstood his point. He was saying there's literally a 1 frame difference between a punish counter and a regular counter. The reward you get for a PC is dramatically higher than the reward you get for a CH. This makes neutral VERY unpredictable, I can throw a button to stop you from moving forward but if I get clipped i might lose 10% OR 40%. It's not the CH itself thats unpredictable, its the results from the type of CH itself that are unpredictable.
@Tinfoiltomcat well with that logic there is a 1 frame difference between blocking and getting hit so that must be random. The attack has start up and active frames. Get hit during them and it's counter if you get hit after them during the recovery frame it's a punish counter. It's simple and consistent.
@oboroshogun no, that's not "by that logic" at all. I think you're misunderstanding again. The idea is that once the attack is out, there is a 1 frame difference between a CH and a PH. Getting counter hit is a given, thats the predictable part. The unpredictable part is what type of counter hit it is. Being able to identify why it was a PC over a CH does not make the interaction any less random. I can identify that gravity will make a coin fall after i flip it in the air, but the side facing up is random. This distinction is new to the series with SF6. Situations that used to result in 5% damage like a cr.mk or counter poke in neutral can now SOMETIMES convert to 40% instead. Yes we know WHY they got a 40% conversion, but the interaction that created it was random
@Tinfoiltomcat that's seem like a problem that he is having and maybe you as well. Getting a punish counter is super predictable. The only thing that can be tricky is going for a punish counter and having them block your attack when the timing is tight. Say it's a minus 4 and you were late on the jab, well you are going to miss the window but that's a user error. After a block it's literally always a punish counter if the move was unsafe. It's as consistent as it gets. As for if you try to whiff punish too early well you are likely going to get a trade if you are lucky or probably get countered yourself because you press a button too early and are going to run into their attack's active frames. It's as straight forward as it gets. Confirming a regular counter can be tough but you just have to try to set them up with frame traps and look for the huge counter hit notice that pops up on your side.
@oboroshogun im done repeating myself lol. You arent understanding thr argument. You keep getting caught up on the wrong side of the probability equation. Good talk man.
it is balanced, but thats not why. if there was good skill expression, there would be more consistent top placements. Just look at basically any other high level esport
@@RequiemOfSolo top placements in big tournaments are consistent. Definitely more consistent than many other games. You didn't say "relative" by the way, just gave vague example of "any other esport".
@@SecretCrocodile yeah, other eSports implies that it's relative to those. Are you ok? And no, top placements are not consistent at all relative to other eSports. If UA-cam allowed links this could be easily disproven by a cursory glance at liquipedias for major tournaments
I definitely agree with a lot of this - I think the core problems with the game revolve around the economy of the drive gauge. A good example is when you pointed out jab string being negative allowing opponent to take a turn with cmk drive rush. That's not necessarily a problem by itself. But the problem is that the opponent pretty much always has meter to do that so it's not really much of a decision at all. If doing cmk drive rush on block came with a harsher consequence --- like it was harder to get that meter back, you are worried about wasting those 3-bars into burnout, you only choose to do that if you want to take a risk --- then this would be a lot more interesting of an interaction. Right now the game is just, spam meter, spam meter, spam meter for neutral skips, stand back at midscreen and throw a few fireballs while it regenerates.
Merge counters/punish counters into just "counter" and nerf the damage bonus/scaling by 50%. Should be some damage reward, but the real reward is getting the opportunity for a combo off it.
I stopped the video when you said punish counters are random. And said 1 frame can determine counter or punish counters. Umm no. Punish counter is a bonus for whiff punishing. It is taking advantage of the recovery of a move. Counter is the startup of a move Crush counters were actually a lot more random. You clearly don’t play SF6 and it shows
I don't think that the downsides of meter spending being "abstract" means the game is random, I think it means the game is hard. Any randomness comes much more from the insane oki on everything, and defensive options being swingy. But I don't think this game is any more random than SFV.
I beat people who are better than me more frequently in this SF than in any other past iteration. As you mentioned, it happens because random hits can leads to 40% damage.
does the general japanese player population like the game? and do the japanese pros like the game or do they play it because it's their job? i find myself wanting to play sf6 more and more when i watch videos critical of the game. idk why. not a fan of the ken vs aki match. the yolo stuff is hard to watch
The game is really snowbally and the core mechanics and homogenization of the pokes don't help. Fireball wars are way less important because of parry and EX fireballs.The corner is oppressive with all the checkmate scenarios and how coin flippy the offense is with the drive rush and drive impact. Neutral can be skipped with unreactable drive rushes. Corner to corner combos are also a problem, and the super system is flawed since most of them are used as combo fillers or desperate reversals. The game is designed to play offensively and gamble attacking and snowball from there. I have 5 characters in Masters and everyone feels more or less the same, fish for pokes into rush to the corner and gamble on offense from there while the guy on defense try to reverse the tides.
Also add shitty retarded mechanics like throw loops and the fact that the characters play in a very controlled and little to no creativity on combos and neutral and you have a game that it's uninteresting and boring to play. It's designed for e-sports
![My Autistic Guide to SF6 for all skill levels PART 1: [The Re-Up]](/img/n.gif)
Are u ok bro
I think players are still figuring out how to optimize resource management, which contributes to the "randomness". Players are just not good at this right now. They make inconsistent decisions if you look at it from the drive/super resource perspective. I really think this will be a defining component of what makes for a top player in the years ahead. I think the corner carry and consistent conversions are the main culprit here. This game snowballs incredibly hard in a way that Street Fighter traditionally has not. AND YET with the snowballing, one correct guess allows you to completely reverse momentum to where you're literally never out of it unless you're checkmated with no resources. And I have a feeling the spectator/esports angle has something to do with the design of it.
nah, sf6 is just ass. I didnt think it could get worse than sfv(riseup)
Sf2 says hi.
@@Rehhhhhhhhhhhhh nah you just too stupid to realize the bad decision making players do with their drive gauge
No, the game just sucks.
@@kylejames8471 a u skill issue
This guy sounds like DSP
Counter is hitting the opponent during their attack, punish counter is hitting them during the recovery frames of the attack, that part of the game is very predictable.
I you misunderstood his point. He was saying there's literally a 1 frame difference between a punish counter and a regular counter. The reward you get for a PC is dramatically higher than the reward you get for a CH.
This makes neutral VERY unpredictable, I can throw a button to stop you from moving forward but if I get clipped i might lose 10% OR 40%.
It's not the CH itself thats unpredictable, its the results from the type of CH itself that are unpredictable.
@Tinfoiltomcat well with that logic there is a 1 frame difference between blocking and getting hit so that must be random. The attack has start up and active frames. Get hit during them and it's counter if you get hit after them during the recovery frame it's a punish counter. It's simple and consistent.
@oboroshogun no, that's not "by that logic" at all. I think you're misunderstanding again.
The idea is that once the attack is out, there is a 1 frame difference between a CH and a PH. Getting counter hit is a given, thats the predictable part. The unpredictable part is what type of counter hit it is.
Being able to identify why it was a PC over a CH does not make the interaction any less random. I can identify that gravity will make a coin fall after i flip it in the air, but the side facing up is random.
This distinction is new to the series with SF6. Situations that used to result in 5% damage like a cr.mk or counter poke in neutral can now SOMETIMES convert to 40% instead.
Yes we know WHY they got a 40% conversion, but the interaction that created it was random
@Tinfoiltomcat that's seem like a problem that he is having and maybe you as well. Getting a punish counter is super predictable. The only thing that can be tricky is going for a punish counter and having them block your attack when the timing is tight. Say it's a minus 4 and you were late on the jab, well you are going to miss the window but that's a user error.
After a block it's literally always a punish counter if the move was unsafe. It's as consistent as it gets. As for if you try to whiff punish too early well you are likely going to get a trade if you are lucky or probably get countered yourself because you press a button too early and are going to run into their attack's active frames. It's as straight forward as it gets.
Confirming a regular counter can be tough but you just have to try to set them up with frame traps and look for the huge counter hit notice that pops up on your side.
@oboroshogun im done repeating myself lol. You arent understanding thr argument. You keep getting caught up on the wrong side of the probability equation.
Good talk man.
How many sodas did you drink while filming this
Anyone know what this guy's MR is? Don't want to watch 2 hours before I know.
Its because the game is balanced thats why
it is balanced, but thats not why. if there was good skill expression, there would be more consistent top placements. Just look at basically any other high level esport
@@RequiemOfSolo there are consistent top level placements. Same players consistently perform and reach top 8.
@@SecretCrocodile do you know what relative is
@@RequiemOfSolo top placements in big tournaments are consistent. Definitely more consistent than many other games. You didn't say "relative" by the way, just gave vague example of "any other esport".
@@SecretCrocodile yeah, other eSports implies that it's relative to those. Are you ok?
And no, top placements are not consistent at all relative to other eSports. If UA-cam allowed links this could be easily disproven by a cursory glance at liquipedias for major tournaments
I definitely agree with a lot of this - I think the core problems with the game revolve around the economy of the drive gauge.
A good example is when you pointed out jab string being negative allowing opponent to take a turn with cmk drive rush. That's not necessarily a problem by itself. But the problem is that the opponent pretty much always has meter to do that so it's not really much of a decision at all. If doing cmk drive rush on block came with a harsher consequence --- like it was harder to get that meter back, you are worried about wasting those 3-bars into burnout, you only choose to do that if you want to take a risk --- then this would be a lot more interesting of an interaction.
Right now the game is just, spam meter, spam meter, spam meter for neutral skips, stand back at midscreen and throw a few fireballs while it regenerates.
Merge counters/punish counters into just "counter" and nerf the damage bonus/scaling by 50%. Should be some damage reward, but the real reward is getting the opportunity for a combo off it.
I stopped the video when you said punish counters are random. And said 1 frame can determine counter or punish counters. Umm no.
Punish counter is a bonus for whiff punishing. It is taking advantage of the recovery of a move.
Counter is the startup of a move
Crush counters were actually a lot more random.
You clearly don’t play SF6 and it shows
I don't think that the downsides of meter spending being "abstract" means the game is random, I think it means the game is hard. Any randomness comes much more from the insane oki on everything, and defensive options being swingy. But I don't think this game is any more random than SFV.
I beat people who are better than me more frequently in this SF than in any other past iteration. As you mentioned, it happens because random hits can leads to 40% damage.
does the general japanese player population like the game? and do the japanese pros like the game or do they play it because it's their job?
i find myself wanting to play sf6 more and more when i watch videos critical of the game. idk why.
not a fan of the ken vs aki match. the yolo stuff is hard to watch
The game is really snowbally and the core mechanics and homogenization of the pokes don't help. Fireball wars are way less important because of parry and EX fireballs.The corner is oppressive with all the checkmate scenarios and how coin flippy the offense is with the drive rush and drive impact. Neutral can be skipped with unreactable drive rushes. Corner to corner combos are also a problem, and the super system is flawed since most of them are used as combo fillers or desperate reversals. The game is designed to play offensively and gamble attacking and snowball from there. I have 5 characters in Masters and everyone feels more or less the same, fish for pokes into rush to the corner and gamble on offense from there while the guy on defense try to reverse the tides.
Also add shitty retarded mechanics like throw loops and the fact that the characters play in a very controlled and little to no creativity on combos and neutral and you have a game that it's uninteresting and boring to play. It's designed for e-sports
Add 5 frames of recovery to whiffed buttons while in burnout?
Is this satire
No lies told
"broski"
ahh yes, lets make discussion out of twitter/X engagement farmers that often often make inflammatory comments for reach on the platform
Are you a gold player 😂😂😂😂
I'm master rank and I don't think he's wrong.
This game is trash that’s why