Always interesting to see a new SaveOrcas strategy, although this one seems particularly dubious, at least vs. Elf, where the shaman timing is so crucial
2:47 this annoys me a lot in your games vs demon, you have mana, he will burn you you can just windwalk away, he always burns you and even if you do not want to run you could just hit him for that windealk bonus damage. This happens a lot. You just wait for him to burn you. I am not pro so this may be some elaborate plan bit I would just use my mana before he burns me
I think it depends, the thing is yea you can damage hypothetically, but the mana to moonwell ratio is worse than the mana to hp ratio - so its kind of more expensive for him to burn.
If you can't afford to delay your 1st Shaman for a Witch Doctor, what about using the Bestiary instead, to make a Bat 1st? They have really good sight range and move fast, so you could keep 1 Bat hanging out over tries and darting from one grove to the next to keep tabs on the opponent's army, and unless they put up a Sentinel Owl or made an air unit they'd never see it hanging out over the trees. Keep the Bat far enough away from the edge of the trees so that it never auto-attacks the opponent's army unless you have your own army there, in which case you can move it a bit closer for a bit of extra damage to Unarmored units that get too close to the trees.
i have no idea but in theory vision is helpful to avoid them and just hit and run? 2nd game looked good until 22:00 where vision baited you to him but ig you wanted to fight @ 50 anyways?
I have been curious for a bit after my wife commented "Someone has been watching Grubby" when I was singing the jingle, why is the notification for a subscriber play "Under da Sea"?
I love your try hard uploads man, thank you so much for putting in the effort to battle high mmr players for our entertainment, while still challenging yourself during your pension years
You should have to play some minimum number of games with a race before you're allowed to complain about that race. It might help to avoid comments like this one
@@bryansweeney3077 Grubby has played *thousands* of games with NE and even reached Grandmaster status with NE, and he absolutely thinks Elf is OP against Orc. Does the opinion of a 2 time WCG World Champion count?
I'd want to see you play a strat, now that you've tried League. I want you to try the Duel Hero mindset, and play them like ADC support. So you always make sure you have one hero that works as Damage source, I.E Range. And let him free cast as much as possible for Steady DMG output. And use your other hero ontop of your choice of best units for the job, to Peel your "ADC" your own rules apply here
14:35 how is he losing as level 2 to a level 1, i know there is one warrior with him, but is leveling up heroes so pointless? in league of legends if someone is level 2 and the other one is level 1 its a big difference
Heroes do get stats at every level in WC3, but it's not so pronounced as in League. The bigger power spikes in WC3 tend to be at level 3 and 5, which is when you can level up your main ability to level 2 and 3
WC3 is a completely broken game. I have no interest in playing this game anymore. As Orc players, we used to have 1 average/decent matchup Vs Human, a tough matchuo Vs UD and a completely broken matchup Vs Elf where you had to hope for fhe Elf to make a big mistake for you to have even 25% chance of winning. Now, the matchup Vs Elf continues to be as broken as ever, the matchup Vs UD got even tougher since UD can expand easier now, and the 1 decent matchup that we had Vs Human is now worse than ever because of buffs to peasants and Devotion Aura. Only Lyn still has 50% win rate or higher Vs Humans(and even Lyn gets stomped hard Vs Elf and UD). I only play custom games in WC3 now because melee is not worth it anymore. I watch and study carefully replays of my losses and for literally 80% of my losses I made less mistakes than the other guy. My best matchup by far is Orc mirror at 70%. The other matchups I am 40% now. I wonder why the only matchup where I win mosf of the time is the one where opponent has the sme heroes and units than me? hmmm...makes you wonder, doesn't it? I really hope Grubby would read this and say something publicly about this because it's ridiculous at this point. Hitman retired since he can't beat anyone besides fellow Orcs. FoCus is now 60% losses across tournaments. Lyn lost 3-0 to Happy in 30 minutes, and also lost 4 series to 120 in the past six months. As the most iconic and beloved Orc player of all times, Grubby needs to say something about the state of Orc. Even the top Orc pros of Asia are frustrated that Grubby won't say anything about this. Soin expressed frustration that Grubby mentioned moon wells which wasn't enough, but didn't say anything about the matchup Vs Undead, which is almost unwinnable for Orc at this point(Lyn said that, even with a perfect early games, you are dependent on great item drops to have a chance of winning Vs UD).
Staff and moonwells should have a casting time. The ability to evacuate your most important unit instantly, and to completely restore it, also instantly, goes beyond what any other race has access to. Even holy light has a slight delay compared to moonwells. Nelf player has to make a series of mistakes to make dh actually vulnerable. Makes you wish to see a lvl 3 shockwave and some raiders tear those wells apart
@@ambion19 Oh trust me, raider lame is the *only* viable strategy Vs Elf in this the most broken matchup ever. But you need to have a perfect early game and get your SH to level 3 without losing more than 1 grunt, so as to not level the Elf heroes to much, and to have enough gold to get 6-7 raiders from 1 base while the Elf is mining from 2 bases. Then, you need to have those 6-7 raiders hit before the 8 minute mark before DOTCs have master training and you get reked by bears. It's ridiculous! Like Hitman said: "It's literally impossible for Elf to lose to Orc if the Elf player has a working brain."
Orc got buffs in the most recent patch, and it does seem to have helped vs. Elf, based on the W3Champions Grandmaster-level stats: Orc vs. Elf last patch (1.36.0) - 46.3% WR Orc vs. Elf current patch (1.36.1) - 49.3% WR Notably, that's the only matchup that shows a less-than-50% WR for Orc this patch. Other matchups: 50.4% vs. Human 52.0% vs. Undead These statistics are certainly not a perfect indicator of balance, but I'll trust them over extremely biased takes such as yours any day
@@bryansweeney3077 It's mostly Lyn winning most matches Vs Elf at the *highest* level. Even Grandmaster(2,200-2,500 MMR) is below top #10 player which is 2,500+ MMR. Orc can't win anything FoCus and Hitman *never* won major tournaments. Lyn is the only active Orc that has been able to win World Titles, and his win rate Vs both Haopy and 120(not just Happy) is less than 40%. Orc got only 2 buffs, and both of them are *pathetic* .The buff to SW is only useful in the matchup Vs Human, and is 100% irrelevant Vs both Elf and UD because destroyer not only dispells but eats spirit link. The "buff" to head hunters is not even a buff, but a reverse nerf, and HH are still weaker now than they were 2 patches ago. Orc is in *terrible* shape, with only Lyn winning anything. Lyn also doesn't really count because he's an extreme outlier. This is the guy, after all, the guy that reached 2,450 MMR with UD in less than 100 guys and that once defeated Colorful 3-0 in Elf mirror(yes, he beat Colorful 3 to nothing off-race against Colorful's main race). Lyn might be the most skilled player to ever play this game together with Infi, so his results don't matter. It is important to point out that Lyn had a 72% win rate Vs Happy before the 2 nerfs to Far Seer, the 3 nerfs to head hunters and the nerf to critical strike. At the WCG Winter 2019, he beat Happy 3-1 on LAN ping. Now, he wins only 33% of matches Vs Happy. It's not like Happy improved masssively since then he already had been World Champion 6 months before and his win rate Vs top pros was actually slightly higher in 2019 than it is now. It's just that Orc got nerfed into the ground.
the last fight BM did 3 auto attack, half of the time he was been path blocked.... just auto click and grub would have won that fight as the lv3 bm would have attacked 6 more times... No towers when losing, no working towards heal ward as orc, not even invo potion on bm... just goes to show you what a defeatist salty mindset does to a skilled player.
@@m4xecution151 bruh... it's so cringe that you completely missing the point... it's the lack of adapabiilty, long term plan, and salty mentality that costed him the game.
It's definitely very useful to have enough information to know when you have no shot at coming back.
2nd game was good. Self creeping was the right decision. Grubby lost when he lost blademaster, which was avoidable.
I feel like having a raider with ensnare is much more valuable to restrain DH than having useless info (in this case).
"He took my ring" - Grubby Smeagol
I imagine save orca as vision ward on Grubb stream, he watch and thinking about strats
Always interesting to see a new SaveOrcas strategy, although this one seems particularly dubious, at least vs. Elf, where the shaman timing is so crucial
2:47 this annoys me a lot in your games vs demon, you have mana, he will burn you you can just windwalk away, he always burns you and even if you do not want to run you could just hit him for that windealk bonus damage. This happens a lot. You just wait for him to burn you. I am not pro so this may be some elaborate plan bit I would just use my mana before he burns me
DH has immolation, so him using mana burn slows the creeping. DH is also at full heal so it is not very efficient to regen with moon wells.
@@luminica_nelves creep fast enough anyway. Getting nana burned isn't what you want
I think it depends, the thing is yea you can damage hypothetically, but the mana to moonwell ratio is worse than the mana to hp ratio - so its kind of more expensive for him to burn.
Grubby wanted the DH to chase him, use his mana on burn not immolation, and so he does'n creep
@@POINTS2 nelves can creep with ancients of war and archers anyway. Meanwhile getting your blade mana burned and poked locks the entire orc army
When Grubby started listing the 3 things that SaveOrcas likes, at first I heard the first one as "save Orcs".
If you can't afford to delay your 1st Shaman for a Witch Doctor, what about using the Bestiary instead, to make a Bat 1st? They have really good sight range and move fast, so you could keep 1 Bat hanging out over tries and darting from one grove to the next to keep tabs on the opponent's army, and unless they put up a Sentinel Owl or made an air unit they'd never see it hanging out over the trees. Keep the Bat far enough away from the edge of the trees so that it never auto-attacks the opponent's army unless you have your own army there, in which case you can move it a bit closer for a bit of extra damage to Unarmored units that get too close to the trees.
remember when Stasis Ward used to stun every unit (friend and enemy) for 12 seconds?
12sec of awkwardness on both sides.
i have no idea but in theory vision is helpful to avoid them and just hit and run? 2nd game looked good until 22:00 where vision baited you to him but ig you wanted to fight @ 50 anyways?
I have been curious for a bit after my wife commented "Someone has been watching Grubby" when I was singing the jingle, why is the notification for a subscriber play "Under da Sea"?
they should def make a tele staff rework
may b its better against other races?
I love your try hard uploads man, thank you so much for putting in the effort to battle high mmr players for our entertainment, while still challenging yourself during your pension years
NE gameplay: use mana burn and a-click with occasional staff usage.
NE, no skill race. Friendly to all newbies 😂
UD gameplay: coil+nova
@@mojotmn can't do it if your mana is burnt :P
You should have to play some minimum number of games with a race before you're allowed to complain about that race. It might help to avoid comments like this one
@@bryansweeney3077 Grubby has played *thousands* of games with NE and even reached Grandmaster status with NE, and he absolutely thinks Elf is OP against Orc. Does the opinion of a 2 time WCG World Champion count?
The defeatist attitude from the start till the end kinda kills the mood for this video ngl. Maybe the stress has gotten to Grubby that day.
you have played that strat yourself many years ago on b-net under one of your training smurfs ...i think it was " headache ".....
Buy more clarity potions sir. Big fan. It's cool here.
Nelves don't like being outmaneuvered and think they can kite forever. Wards change that
I'd want to see you play a strat, now that you've tried League. I want you to try the Duel Hero mindset, and play them like ADC support. So you always make sure you have one hero that works as Damage source, I.E Range. And let him free cast as much as possible for Steady DMG output. And use your other hero ontop of your choice of best units for the job, to Peel your "ADC"
your own rules apply here
14:35 how is he losing as level 2 to a level 1, i know there is one warrior with him, but is leveling up heroes so pointless? in league of legends if someone is level 2 and the other one is level 1 its a big difference
Katana > crescent blades
(crit passive)
Heroes do get stats at every level in WC3, but it's not so pronounced as in League. The bigger power spikes in WC3 tend to be at level 3 and 5, which is when you can level up your main ability to level 2 and 3
What happened to the League content?
quit
@@Marvelous0414 Why
Too pity in second 😢
No tp unfortunately for bm..
mod map with ful viability
WC3 is a completely broken game. I have no interest in playing this game anymore. As Orc players, we used to have 1 average/decent matchup Vs Human, a tough matchuo Vs UD and a completely broken matchup Vs Elf where you had to hope for fhe Elf to make a big mistake for you to have even 25% chance of winning. Now, the matchup Vs Elf continues to be as broken as ever, the matchup Vs UD got even tougher since UD can expand easier now, and the 1 decent matchup that we had Vs Human is now worse than ever because of buffs to peasants and Devotion Aura. Only Lyn still has 50% win rate or higher Vs Humans(and even Lyn gets stomped hard Vs Elf and UD).
I only play custom games in WC3 now because melee is not worth it anymore. I watch and study carefully replays of my losses and for literally 80% of my losses I made less mistakes than the other guy. My best matchup by far is Orc mirror at 70%. The other matchups I am 40% now. I wonder why the only matchup where I win mosf of the time is the one where opponent has the sme heroes and units than me? hmmm...makes you wonder, doesn't it?
I really hope Grubby would read this and say something publicly about this because it's ridiculous at this point. Hitman retired since he can't beat anyone besides fellow Orcs. FoCus is now 60% losses across tournaments. Lyn lost 3-0 to Happy in 30 minutes, and also lost 4 series to 120 in the past six months.
As the most iconic and beloved Orc player of all times, Grubby needs to say something about the state of Orc. Even the top Orc pros of Asia are frustrated that Grubby won't say anything about this. Soin expressed frustration that Grubby mentioned moon wells which wasn't enough, but didn't say anything about the matchup Vs Undead, which is almost unwinnable for Orc at this point(Lyn said that, even with a perfect early games, you are dependent on great item drops to have a chance of winning Vs UD).
All facts. Also staff + moonwells just doesn’t feel like it has a place in wc3. So obvious the devs played ne
Staff and moonwells should have a casting time. The ability to evacuate your most important unit instantly, and to completely restore it, also instantly, goes beyond what any other race has access to. Even holy light has a slight delay compared to moonwells.
Nelf player has to make a series of mistakes to make dh actually vulnerable.
Makes you wish to see a lvl 3 shockwave and some raiders tear those wells apart
@@ambion19 Oh trust me, raider lame is the *only* viable strategy Vs Elf in this the most broken matchup ever. But you need to have a perfect early game and get your SH to level 3 without losing more than 1 grunt, so as to not level the Elf heroes to much, and to have enough gold to get 6-7 raiders from 1 base while the Elf is mining from 2 bases. Then, you need to have those 6-7 raiders hit before the 8 minute mark before DOTCs have master training and you get reked by bears. It's ridiculous! Like Hitman said:
"It's literally impossible for Elf to lose to Orc if the Elf player has a working brain."
Orc got buffs in the most recent patch, and it does seem to have helped vs. Elf, based on the W3Champions Grandmaster-level stats:
Orc vs. Elf last patch (1.36.0) - 46.3% WR
Orc vs. Elf current patch (1.36.1) - 49.3% WR
Notably, that's the only matchup that shows a less-than-50% WR for Orc this patch. Other matchups:
50.4% vs. Human
52.0% vs. Undead
These statistics are certainly not a perfect indicator of balance, but I'll trust them over extremely biased takes such as yours any day
@@bryansweeney3077 It's mostly Lyn winning most matches Vs Elf at the *highest* level. Even Grandmaster(2,200-2,500 MMR) is below top #10 player which is 2,500+ MMR. Orc can't win anything FoCus and Hitman *never* won major tournaments. Lyn is the only active Orc that has been able to win World Titles, and his win rate Vs both Haopy and 120(not just Happy) is less than 40%.
Orc got only 2 buffs, and both of them are *pathetic* .The buff to SW is only useful in the matchup Vs Human, and is 100% irrelevant Vs both Elf and UD because destroyer not only dispells but eats spirit link. The "buff" to head hunters is not even a buff, but a reverse nerf, and HH are still weaker now than they were 2 patches ago.
Orc is in *terrible* shape, with only Lyn winning anything. Lyn also doesn't really count because he's an extreme outlier. This is the guy, after all, the guy that reached 2,450 MMR with UD in less than 100 guys and that once defeated Colorful 3-0 in Elf mirror(yes, he beat Colorful 3 to nothing off-race against Colorful's main race). Lyn might be the most skilled player to ever play this game together with Infi, so his results don't matter. It is important to point out that Lyn had a 72% win rate Vs Happy before the 2 nerfs to Far Seer, the 3 nerfs to head hunters and the nerf to critical strike. At the WCG Winter 2019, he beat Happy 3-1 on LAN ping. Now, he wins only 33% of matches Vs Happy. It's not like Happy improved masssively since then he already had been World Champion 6 months before and his win rate Vs top pros was actually slightly higher in 2019 than it is now. It's just that Orc got nerfed into the ground.
I am playing a game against someone who has roughly the same amount of mmr as I HAVE. 00:01 . Now my whole night is ruined :(
i don't think i like the teleportation meta
double staff is kind of goofy lol
Fun fact: elf players have daddy issues and also was not being loved by their mothers.
Staff is such bullshit...
the last fight BM did 3 auto attack, half of the time he was been path blocked....
just auto click and grub would have won that fight as the lv3 bm would have attacked 6 more times...
No towers when losing, no working towards heal ward as orc, not even invo potion on bm...
just goes to show you what a defeatist salty mindset does to a skilled player.
"just auto click and have heal wards" 🤦♂
this whole comment is so cringe
@@m4xecution151 bruh... it's so cringe that you completely missing the point...
it's the lack of adapabiilty, long term plan, and salty mentality that costed him the game.
Wow night elves really get all the bullshit mechanics don’t they
1st
Bro, se que tu fuerte es w3, pero trata de subir full contenido de stormgate pls.
Staff is the gayest item in the game
Prove me wrong