The Biggest Problem With MMOs Today | Asmongold Reacts
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- Опубліковано 26 бер 2023
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Honestly, the leveling experience is the mmo experience for me. I love leveling, getting new gear and skills, but when I hit max I find myself falling off in most games. Gear grinding isn't as fun to me as leveling.
Can you help level my alts❓💯
I find leveling really enjoyable in games too. Not in all games though but to use lost ark as an example, I developed way more of a bond with a character if i actually leveled it.
I did the story like 6 times at least leveling different classes and genuinely dont feel interested when Games offer boosts for me. It is definitely a big part of an mmo to have fun growing with your character instead of Just having end Game content. Ff14 is another one where i spent so much time leveling and the devs know its part of the appeal for a lot of people to get more gameplay out of the game.
I love both.
irronically thats how i used to play POE, in hardcore. then i realized how many more builds specifically excel in the endgame and how much more fun i can have not playing hardcore on a laggy pc lol yay RIP 2012-2014 noob playthru
I feel this too. If I wanna grind items/equips I rather play PoE or Diablo
I think the biggest reason why MMOs were huge back in the day was because A) there weren't nearly as many gaming options back then so u didn't feel like u were missing out no lifing an MMO and most importantly, B) it was an actual adventure. I remember exploring in game used to be so fun and everyone just wanted to do new shit and get cool looking gear. Now it's all about being meta and getting from a to b as fast as possible
Also doesnt help that wowhead and such datamine everything in advance. Blizz should encrypt everything.
The games used to be different. In EverQuest if you died you'd lose a massive amount of experience. If you were on a PvP server you were paranoid all the time. The game was amazing.
C) Because of A you had a lot of people you know playing the same game, which is what makes MMOs great
@@Desolaytorewowhead and theorycrafting killed wow for me. Back in vanilla and tbc there was more mystery to the game. Once the dataminers and optimizers got big the game became little more than ticking certain boxes and doing the exact same thing that site X says is the optimal way to play the game. It ceased to be fun, and just became a task to be completed as fast as possible.
Leveling in classic WoW also felt good because back then nobody thought you could miss out on content. Expansions weren't a regular occurrence yet. Endgame was just there, waiting for you. Then when BC came out and the vast majority of players simply skipped the classic raids the attitude many people had changed from "I like that there are plenty of things I haven't done yet." to "You have to make sure I don't miss out on anything."
@@cattysplat Absolutely, catch up gear shrinks the game down to the current patch level. WoW's downfall comes from like 1 or 2 bad ideas, that may not seem like bad ideas at first, piling on top of each other until the quality of the game couldn't hold it up.
Like, I believe catch up gear was first added in LK through their highly accessible token system which led to "Wrath Shock" in Cataclysm when the difficulty of 5-mans was restored to a more TBC level of difficulty WHICH was a healthy thing for the game; unfortunately, the casuals won the day but brought about the downfall of WoW.
This would be a systemic mentality for Blizzard to prioritize gear acquired per hour rather than experiencing an adventure that wasn't always perfectly optimized.
@@daroaminggnome Yeah, that's another argument against RDF
@@SacredCASHcow Because you are paying for it, one way or another, you should get to experience it. If I have to keep paying for expansions... which I do.. then the state of the game as it progresses should not make every expansion before it so trivial it isn't fun, so aggravating to find groups it's not fun, or in some cases straight up unable to be played at all because new stuff broke it and the devs don't feel like fixing old content. If there is anything I truly praise FFXIV for it's the fact the system they setup means old content is always playable and fun. ARR came out 10 years ago, people are still running everything in ARR. And not as a goof or a one off fun time to reminisce. People are still genuinely enjoying it. Everything is still valid. How much of WoW is actually valid to a play experience? A brand new level 1 character inside of WoW is fast tracked into levels and gear so fast it trivializes everything in past WoW expansions to the point they aren't fun. They may not even be aware what could actually be their favorite piece of content in the entire game exists until they are so powerful it can't be fun. It's just stupid how WoW treats all the old content they took years creating.
@@SacredCASHcow Okay. But what term are we supposed to use for all the stuff in a game like WoW that is functionally unplayable? That's an honest question. If I'm walking around in an older zone in WoW and see something and want to go do it but I can't, what is that? What term do I use? Cause WoW has lots of that. Or, what term do I use if I'm walking around in WoW and see something that could be fun if I wasn't so unbelievably overpowered for it that it turns the experience into a snooze? I see a thing, I want to do a thing, but it is not enjoyable specifically because of how Blizzard handles anything over than 2 years old? What do I call that? Because that's what WoW is to me. It's that experience over and over and over again. 20 years worth of old stuff that no longer works or is made boring. The game is constantly showing me interesting stuff and then saying I can't have fun with it. It is constantly fighting against me to do the one thing games are supposed to do. Have fun playing them. So what term should I use for that? Content is the only term we have. Stop arguing the semantics.
that is just the tbc classic, actuall classic was vastly different.
I miss class uniqueness. I miss that classes used to have a niche that only they could fulfill. It meant you needed to know people that played certain classes for certain things. I remember having to sap an enemy almost every pull (and this was when it had a chance to fail) and the mage had to sheep another. Or you needed a warlock for the raid group to get everyone there and setup your raid wipe protection. You needed hunters for MC for the big doggy fight. I get that the new system makes it more accessible but I think that made the social aspect work, you had to talk to people to make friends to build groups and raids.
When cc actually mattered and you didnt just tank entire pulls and aoe it down.
This reminds me of when dire maul came out. Playing that dungeon under geared was awesome.
@@adamnagel7436they STILL haven't brought CC back? Jesus. I quit when they finally fixed the AoE spam meta in Cata and then nerfed it back
in vanilla wow. i remember going to deadmines and getting your first blue item
it felt so good. you felt like you upgraded a lot with getting a blue at that level :)
In vanilla wow, I got a blue 2-handed axe in deadmines at level 20... And I kept it during the next 20 levels because I couldn't find better.
Gear quality back then was really significant.
I havent played WoW in about 10 years and even when i did play I was incredibly nooby, I just got back into WoW but decided to play Wotlk and I have to say this feeling is still real for me even today, just got level 22 which took me 3 basically full days. It's quite hard for me to find dungeon parties but when I do its an absolute blast and usually end up doing another few dungeons with the same people because its nearly impossible to find other people doing them
Wailing Caverns was my first dungeon and it was fun because I asked people in Org if they wanted to and they joined up and we had a good time; compared to stupid random dungeon finder " ooh I get an extra reward? " yeah the reward is getting votekicked and racial slurred at for "not dealing enough dps" lmao 🤡
It's hard to make an adventure like you're talking about feel meaningful when your character has evolved into a god slaying, world breaking celebrity known by every being in existence. For me, the difference people describe in experience between classic and modern is that your character is "just another guy", and actually feels like your avatar. You're both learning as you go, both about yourself and your abilities and the world you're exploring.
Exactly
Well, a little more than "just another guy" - because on the field of battle you beat NPCs (except the big names, but that's expected)...still I get it, but on the other hand like in a pen and paper RPG the more you level up, the more you should get noticed (if you've "beaten the game" and people still treat you like a nobody? Then that sucks, too!)
I personally like that your character has developed into a god slaying famous hero, cos that's exactly what would happen. If you've been playing since the beggining then over the years you've faced untold odds and taken down the most badass enemies. To not have that acknowledged I think would be kinda crazy.
@@David-qo3wm Most of the time it doesn't make in-game sense though. NPCs get all the credit when it really matters, and on the other hand they call you "the Chosen One" when you are standing in a hub area next to a hundred other people doing the same quest. The modern mmo storylines rarely do anything for immersion and instead act more like singleplayer stories.
@@PastaAivo what makes sense in multiplayer rpgs? If you bother about NPCs calling every people you see "Chosen One" then you are probably angry about how that 1 NPC gives every person a quest of killing rats in his basement. What a messy basement that is xD. Or telling people to collect apples from the same tree... That tree is a miracle with neverending fruits :D
Yep. Leveling in older games like GW1 and FFXI was the bulk of the experience. Just the idea of combinations of abilities you could mesh after maxing subclasses was massively rewarding.
GW1 was incredible. Way better than GW2 which disappointed me bigtime after I was hyped for so long for it to come out. I guess a lot of people like GW2 so that's my spicy take of the day. But the systems and ideas (and implementation, for that most part) in GW1 were so much better.
@@EB-bl6cc Nah I can agree to an extent. I like GW2 more overall and its leveling experience wasn't terrible but it is focused on the story and just leveling to progress in the story. Where as in GW1 you had to explore to progress the story and you leveled along the way. Granted I started in Factions which was known to have a quicker grind to 20 compared to the other expansions so I was max well before I finished the campaign.
Leveling on FFXI back in the day was the best!
Yeah getting a good party was a big high in that game.
I think another big change in the current style of MMOs vs things like Classic WoW was back in the day your character would go out and do a bunch of stuff you wanted to do, nowadays it's more you go around and watch named NPCs do things and have fancy cinematics.
Yes and no. Most modern MMOs really get into the "champion, you are the chosen one, you must save the universe" mindset.
Took me like 4-6 months to hit 60 back in vanilla and those days are some of my favorite WoW memories.
I’ve never paid for a boost ever.
It was so flipping fun. I had wanted to play again then I heard about Cat and was like I’ll never play again
Classic Hardcore has a completely different feel traditional classic. It is entirely knowledge based, what the dangerous quests are, whats the dangerous routes to a dungeon, dangerous boss's etc etc. When you see people out in the world or in the guild you have a level of respect for people who get over level 30+ or 45+ (depending on the class). Close encounters get your heart going, escorts get your heart going. Because there is no 'wowhead' for hardcore, you also find yourself engaging with the community more.
To add to that: I think that if exactly that knowledge you are talking about is missing, that recreates the fun I had back in the day, when I had an even shallower knowledge.
Back then I knew nothing about anything in WoW and was intrigued. Now I know a lot, but I don‘t know if I can take on these 2 Pillagers at lvl 14. And upping the stakes in HC with the delete on death seems to almost perfectly balance my knowledge of the game with its difficulty.
When WoW first came out I remember just running deadmines to get the Defias set and forgot the objective was to level up. I was just having fun with the content at level 10-18 and was excited to move zones to see what it had to offer. Point being is that I loved playing the game and leveling was a tertiary objective.
I remember meeting a guy, having fun (we were in crossroads I think, so around lvl 20?), and deciding to go to explore, ending up in feralas and ran all the way to decolace. All this was of course without any mounts, and dying some times on the way.. Being amazed at the forest scenery when we first saw it etc.
First time levelling in Wow back in 2004 was some of my best gaming gaming experiences ever.
My first VC we got stuck at the elites and I randomly messaged a level 55 NE rogue for some help. He came over feralas to help us noobs clear the boat of elites, And we became friends after that, Vanilla was the best
I did the same thing with the WC leather set. Was still running it as a druid at like level 28. Kept it in my bank until MoP.
@@Kristjan_N same, met two guys in elwynn zone first day of playing, one guy at lvl 3 declared he wanted to explore and go to orgrimmar. He got corpsecamped and myself and the other guy, as big strong lvl 7s, started travelling over to try help him! It took so long to travel we logged out in an inn in Kalimdor and happened to log in the next day at the same time. Still friends with that guy 15 years later! i loved classic but it can’t top the original experience
Giving retail a go after leaving in Cata was an eye opener for me. My GF and I looked at each other after about an hour, and were both like ‘are you bored?’… it felt completely meaningless.. wasted time.. yet playing classic didn’t.
@@masterpain7742 You don't deserve oxygen
This is why I like SWTOR, making alts and playing through the story is always fun, PVP is available from level 10 and is always great, group play is always avaialble. Only content that is not available until max level is basically raiding and hardmodes.
SWTOR is the reason we don't have KotOR 3.
100% this
SWTOR's leveling experience is saddled beside the main and side story as opposed to being the main appeal of it.
What's even better is that there's like eight different main story lines to follow and you can now be whatever class you can be for those stories. EG: A lightning hurling Sith under going the Jedi Knight story line.
The flavor stand point is just superb.
Kinda like in eso where after you get lvl 10 you can do pvp or bgs. There is normal dungeons and pretty good story and you can do any zone in any order
He's warped by vanilla WoW first MMO syndrome and nostalgia. He talks about modern MMOs treating the leveling experience as nothing but a chore and uses the two worst examples of that possible. Swtor and ESO. Swtor puts more effort and money into the leveling experience than any other game. Its a fully voice acted experience from start to finish with plenty of side stuff to do whenever you want. This is also why they did a unique story for each class, so it would be replayable. ESO lets you do whatever you want to level and does a decent job of making the quests immersive. WoW has and always did have the most bare bones questing experience and to this day the methods available to level in WoW are still extremely restricted compared to other MMOs which give you way more choice, whether you treat it as a chore or not.
@@EmpyreanDreamer I’ve actually picked SWTOR back up recently while taking a break from HC WOW and it gets old kind of fast to me. Part of the issue is that the world doesn’t feel that powerful around you. It’s certainly better than retail WOW in that way, but only a little. Another issue is the dungeon scaling for low levels. It feels pretty useless to be a level 20 healer that is scaled up to lvl 80. FFXIV does this particular thing much better by scaling back the higher level players instead of scaling up the lower level ones.
Even simply traversing through areas in classic wow had to be done with care unless you wanted to get dismounted and potentially killed. This gives every area its own unique character that you had to understand and conquer. Modern MMOs havent figured that one out yet.
The unfortunate reality is that they had figured that out long before wow existed, and figured out that it was less profitable then shoveling dopamine into people's faces.
One of the most MMOs moments of my life was walking to Scarlett Monastery for the very first time when the game was new. Me and my party running through mob packs and pvp interactions from Southshore to Tirisfal. We walked through the plaguelands cuz we had no idea that we could go across Silverpine.
That walk alone was so much fun.
Classic WoW truly was a survival MMO lol
Yeah the world felt alive. I remember swimming from Ratchet to Dustwallow Marsh and getting killed by this huge hydra underwater. It slowly emerged and one shot me. I think I screamed out loud irl lol.
@dingding12321 hm maybe I'm missing some of the criteria but I just never got that vibe from it. Maybe how food and water restored stats? All the danger came from the monsters so never felt the same.
I had never played WoW before, I started with Classic when I was 18 and it was the last time I've felt like a little kid again while playing a game since then. I wasn't even there back in the day for the original WoW release but Classic WoW still gives me a feeling of nostalgia. It makes me sad that it's not the same anymore, and it feels like there will never be anything like that again. Something about that game was just completely different from everything else. I miss it a lot, not gonna lie
If you want a classic experience where you can do anything you want within the game: you should jump on the Ascension train
if you haven't read it already, staats' the wow diaries may interest you
I just love the WoW locations, zones like Azuremyst, Bloodmyst, Eversong, Elwynn, Westfall, Duskwood, Tirisfal, etc., are so incredibly atmospheric with such a great music, I can play through them dozens of times and it never gets old.
Leveling for the first time as a Dwarf Hunter just like on the Box wow was sold in, felt magical, no flying, trudging through snow outside of Iron Forge. To me wow had an infinite landscape, more zones than I thought I'd ever see, many zones I'd yet to hear about at the time. Power creep wasn't too apparent, computer controlled enemies would die, or I would. I'd problem solve how I could over come this new enemy, eventually triumph and continue exploring. I saw two players with red names and skulls adorning their healthbars, unknown were their level, but I knew they must be very powerful. They killed a player in a flash and mounted their giant dragons and quickly vanished over the mountains. I was awe struck, and hooked. The mystery is what kept me engaged with the content at the time. I knew nothing, researched nothing, and had a blast. Flash forward to MoP, I'm a rogue and a blood DK, absolutely murdering folks in BGs for kicks, avoiding quests like a plague.
This is why I miss games like Everquest, where it took so long to reach max level that it was more about the journey instead of the destination. You also talked to people instead of having some tank running a marathon through low level dungeons as the dps 2 second KOs each mob. It's not fun.
Yeah but I hated those placeholder npc while waiting for the real npc that had a chance to drop what you wanted. Plus hated that mobs chased you to the zone .
@@hamanu666 Those things were aspects that most people agree were not the greatest. I recall camping a mob for over a week for an epic drop. It's lucky that I was in High School and it was summer or else I may have never even been able to progress that quest.
Also, no mob leashing is meh. But take those out and a lot of what made the game good doesn't change.
This^ this is what I miss
project1999 is waiting for you. i highly recommend it to any vanilla wow fans. it's literally vanilla wow with the vanilla turned up
@@hamanu666You hate mobs that chase you?
To me, the BIG difference is. In Vanilla, it was all about you. As a person. Your character. Your story. It might have been simple, but it was personal. It was meaningful to you. Simple things, simple landscapes. You just living in the world.
In the expansions such as Dragonflight, Shadowlands etc. it's always about something else. Something very GRAND BIG and EPIC happening to the world itself, an entire race, massive consequences and so on. It's so disconnected. Your own character and the personal connection was lost along the way. It lost the meaning of "RPG" a long time ago.
I mean you litteraly kill gods in classic it's not exactly simple and your not just some character
@@poekpally You're very much just some character. Gods are killed all the time in Warcraft lore. It's not a big event. Yes, there are grand schemes but in the end you're just a pawn. In fact, in some cases your moral standing is very ... questionable. Especially when you raid cities, murder dragons and basically just spend your time defending the status quo (Stormwind vs. Defias)
@@sputnik7472 I like how in Classic/Vanilla, you’re literally just another “soldier” of the race you pick. You go questing and start making a name for yourself. It’s not “AH YES OUR GREAT HERO!” I liked the feeling as a kid in old WoW of seeing everyone else running around on quests all of just trying to level and get stronger. Even after they brought back classic, it just doesn’t hit the same as back when I was a kid just amazed at seeing people online on the same journey i was. Was something special, i remember when Mr.T was doing the commercials lol
I feel like old wow had mystery to its style a sense of large dangerous myserious place. When I log into wow today it feels like i’m playing a disney game. Why is everone look like they are on steroids? Like why is everyone running around looking like the last boss of a raid
swtor at launch was the best mmo leveling experience imo. the importance of class quests made every class play through unique. you felt compelled to level every class to see the whole story.
I’m old and I remember playing Everquest when the level cap was 50 and every death was a huge thing cause you lost experience and had to recover your corpse to get your equipment back. And when you got to the end of dungeon there wasn’t any teleport out you had to then kill your way back out or train everyone else in the same zone.
The leveling in FF 14 almost had me quit between ARR and HW. It took me about as much time to get to lvl 51 as it took me to go from 1-50. This was back before the reworked the questline and made it more streamlined, I made it through and thoroughly enjoyed the experience after but I hated doing 100+ quests and not getting any xp because I was locked into my lvl until I got to the expansion.
The mystery back in vanilla , while leveling, was awesome. The difference moving from zone to zone was huge, and nobody had seen the maps in that first few weeks, so there was tons of true mystery to explore that they never captured again. Think how it was to move from doing some quests in duskwood to finally being able to go down into stranglethorn, it was mysterious, deadly and amazing, and totally immersive. And they never got that back in any of the later expansions. Some in BC, but all was lost to me after that. Didn't feel it at all with the boring zones in wrath or legion etc.
Vanilla was designed to be enjoyed while leveling, everything after that was designed to be great AFTER it was maxed out. No mystery in that. no mystery in the loot now. Now its all just gear score, and everyone going exactly to the content that raises it and nothing else. Nobody goes and picks on towns in outer world pvp or anything anymore, all the fun is lost since its all gear score and better gear is in arenas. So now everyone has great gear, but not much fun.
long story long: I just play GW2 now.
Wrath had some beautiful zones but exploring them became very logical, from subzone A to subzone B, etc. Big golden icons on the map. TBC zones was the last time for me where discovering a new zone felt really immersive though.
@@mithrandirthegrey7644 I am a zoomed playing through retail for the first time and my experience sounds exactly like the one you are reminiscing on. I haven’t even done a raid yet. I don’t think it’s the games fault necessarily
Classic feels way less scripted and directional. It didn't just let you go off the beaten path, it barely showed you an animal trail as to where to go, and having to go back and forth between zones as different "subzones" of them had mobs almost 10 or 20 levels higher in case of STV, and just go and do what you wanted.
Cataclysm was hated for viewing the zone variety and mystery as one of the game's greatest failings. They just had to "correct" it. Like how Delbert Grady from the Shining "corrected" his wife and kids...
For me, DAoC had that same magic, where the leveling was just as fun as the end game. Zone exploration, open world dungeons full of people, tons of classes for replayability, 3 different realms with distinct environments and styles... even the travel, where you had to hop a "taxi" horse and ride the length of the map, which made the game feel so big.
DAoC felt like an adventure because quests were so few and far between. A quest was just getting to the dungeon alive lol
Will this dude ever try GW2?
@@Avrelivs_Gold
Lmfao
I still vividly remember the night one son and I got our mounts, and then we helped another son with his warlock quest to get his mount, what a time, and many others still unmatched to this day.
Friends I've known who started with retail haven't cleared the leveling experience because they felt it was meaningless and boring. But the same two guys are stuck on classic wrath the last two months slowly grinding, working on their professions, making dungeon groups and loving it. No matter how many times I create a new char in classic, it's felt like a challenge and every small step forward felt rewarding.
Sadly I can't "go back" - because I'd miss to many things I already had during WotLK! I'd do it if I could get my characters as they were when WotLK ended, because I had loads of content left! I hadn't cleared Ulduar, much less Ice Crown, but I don't have the time to farm everything again (I had all my lvl 80 characters in T9 through the badges from heroic dungeons, I had the netherdrake mounts on most of them and fast flying etc. etc:)
Okay here is my experience with Classic leveling: solo. That’s it.
Literally no one willing to group, no one willing to do low dungeons, no one willing to do group quests. Spammed Org and the Classic “LFG” for hours. Literally nothing.
Don’t know where you Classic people are going on about how great leveling is, but it’s a fucking joke. At least on Retail, LFG is actually worth a damn.
@@Ceece20 I ran 8 dungeons in the passed 24 hours. Use /who to ask for people.
@@031limit031 that is stupid. Just make LFG that’s in retail. It’s fucking easy and doesn’t require going around like an aggressive sales person. I did 10 dungeons in the afternoon for timewalking on 2 separate characters.
Easy as hell and quick to do.
@@Ceece20 It's so stupid, yet it works for everyone else. Not hard to say "Want to heal SFK?" to a person. It creates communication and forms bonds. LFG just created a system where nobody really communicates with each other, creating the trash that is modern-day retail WoW.
Been playing hardcore classic for a bit, love it. I’d recommend going for the easier classe (casters/huntard) at first then if you reluctantly hit 60 maybe try warrior if you are feeling ballsy.
My favorite part is the gear grind much more satisfying in early wow xpacs though could actually see the improvement in damage or healing from one item.
with classic one of the things that i think helps with the immersion is the fact there is no giant dot on the mini map of where your going next. You talk to the npc "there is a cave to the northeast" you dont know where the hell it is how far to the northeast or even if the cave your in is the right cave to the northeast. I think to me that drastically raises that idea of exploration and finding something and having that Oh wow! moment. my issue with current day stuff its just so layed out go here do this do that now go here repeat follow golden icon on map there is no reason to look around or check around a corner.
Be it dailies, weeklies, world quests or even instance lockouts, so long as time gating exists within the game players will have good reason to despise open world exploration and navigational challenges
Sadly those golden icons were used in many other open world games as well, such as Witcher3 and Assassin's Creed games. Exploration then feels like going through a check list, a zone you have to quickly ''finish'', and where you play it logically, from A to B to C to D. I remember back in vanilla WoW the leveling experience was very chaotic. From Duskwood to Stranglethorn, to a handful quests in Desolace, to going back to Stranglethorn to do higher lvl quests, etc. It was messy and that made it good.
And even then, after you say "Screw the Golden Ping, I'm going on an adventure!" you're met with:
-insufficient skill X
-not enough item Y
-that place is meant for a quest later on
Why would I go on an adventure, if the only thing I know, is that I won't waste time by following The Golden Ping?
and thats why runescape is one of the best mmo's , the game is fun at all levels and every level feels meaningful and it gives a sense of progression
@RJ That's pretty much every MMO lol. I think that's the beauty of it though. Runescape is very upfront about what kind of game it is while other games are trying to pretty much trick you into their grindfests.
@RJ "big giant dopamine simulator" That's the core of all games, you want them to be fun... they aren't jobs or real life simulators.
One thing i always liked about WoW was being able to spec swap. I remember i was shaman dps and healer so it opens up activities and changes things a bit especially with raids. Also addons were awesome. I got sick of everything being subscription and stopped right before cataclysm. Games now are half finished/early access and all about how much they can squeeze out of the players. Graphics may have gotten much better since then, but games now lacking in many areas
They lack substance, it's all about flashy stuff, numbers and instant gratification now.
What I loved was the gear drops ... A bow with 3 dps more ... that was huge. It was like my hunter unlocked easy mode for the next 2-3 levels and then it got outdated again and you was waiting for a drop again to bring you that feeling back or you do the dungeon because there could be a item in there what would help you the next few levels. That kept me going until I reached 52 ... then I only did alterac and was gearing with pvp and leveling.
I remember that first few months when WoW first released. When I went to each new zone, I fully explored it, read all the quests, farmed the named mobs for hours at a time, completed everything I could. I never had so much fun leveling a character. I also remember on my Rogue getting together with Druid and Rogue friends, and sneaking into UBRS to farm bosses for the nice blue drops in there. And we'd be on Ventrilo joking and drinking like old poker buddies, even though we met just a few weeks ago. Fun times that I wish I could recreate somehow.
Even as a casual player classic hardcore vanilla is fun. For the first time in WOW I actually feel like professions matter. The current function when it comes to professions is to create few end game items that will be replaced with raid items in Classic and on Retail the current system is a bit better but even in DF you just create few pieces e.g. Lariat or a weapon/weapons if you're a melee then just upgrade them as you climb the +M ladder.
This is why Runescape is unironically one of the best mmos ever made. Leveling is rewarding. It's not easy, especially if you're new, but damn is it gratifying. Most people play Runescape without ever even desiring to get to max level, and it's still fun.
Yeah if you like to grind like a sweatshop worker.
@@Geologese Implying that 99% of MMOs including WoW and FFXIV aren't different?
I do remember when getting to 60 meant something. I think though this is always going to be a issue when you have a game that is open all the time the players will soon have gaps as those who play 24/7 outperform those who can only play 4-8 hours a week. I think the struggle is with WoW is that 1st week of a expansion every one is on a level playing field and then it’s really fun. Then a few months later that buddy you haven’t seen too much is 40 ilvls behind you so you have to wait for them to catch up.
i have fond memories of lvling a character in classic tbc. it was very slow and i only hit like level 36. still i have a lot of good memories of it. nothing like rushing to max lvl in a new expansion. it was a very calm experience
Tbh, leveling in most mmos and arpgs tend to be boring now because it’s easy to the point of beeing guaranteed. In classic the 3rd wolf you ever fight has a chance to chain pull 2 more and actually kill you while in retail you can just run through hordes of mobs and kill em all in like 2 buttons. Same with D4. I remember in Diablo 2 getting killed by blood raven or rakinishu. It felt like I better be ready when I open doors because who knows what could be on the other side! I tried D4 this weekend and, just like D3 I felt basically invincible from the get go with the difficulty up as high as the game would let me! Ffxiv was the same story! Got to like level 45 and hadn’t died once! Like… I’m not a masochist or anything, I don’t need sekiro levels of difficulty or some kind of brutal gauntlet, but I’d like things to be challenging enough to actually engage my brain a bit and take 30 seconds to plan things out with my party instead of just chain pulling the entire dungeon without a worry in the world!
I'm sad to hear that D4 does the same mistake as D3 in that the mobs are not dangerous. D2 in Normal isn't particularly difficult, but at least the mobs are more dangerous and you can be killed if you don't pay attention and look which modifiers the colored mobs have etc. I just wanted a modern D2 with better combat, more endgame etc.
In Lineage 2 leveling was the game. You needed to play months to get to max lvl. Coming form that game the approach of "game starts at max lvl" was unusual for me.
Lineage 2 is nightmare if we talking about leveling 😂😂😂😂
Lineage leveling was the biggest fucking grind ever.
Something I loved about Fiesta online was that you could stop at pretty much any level for hoever you wanted to do the content at that level, sadly it was heavily P2W but at the same time getting good gear was very, very rare. It made it so that it took time to earn everything, you felt like you were working towards something at pretty much all times and leveling up was a huge accomplishment. ( Although I'll be honest leveling after about level 50 was dreadfully slow unless you could either solo or could find a good group and even worse once you hit 100. )
It's a very old game but had so much potential, sadly the creators ran it into the ground.
One of the most satisfying mages in any game I've played.
Man I would love a classic+. Not seasonal, not a rush to only raiding but actually enjoying leveling, having class balance, and connected servers, maybe even war mode. I'm on the fence on quitting retail wow but that? That would be fun. I miss just being a simple adventurer, not the "chosen one" among so many other chosen ones, crafting armor that makes a noticeable difference, and actually grouping up to do quests!
leveling in The Division 1 was great
Loved that game
still play it to this day
This is very true, when the grind and bulletspongefest starts at max level I tapped out. The whole idea was fucking neat until then
I had too much fun to focus on any issues in Division 1. They need to come out out with 3 with 1 in mind.
Leveling in WoW classic is still my all time favorite time sink.
I've been playing hardcore in Last Epoch, and I've been loving it. The hardcore experience in games is different. There is a chance you could lose your character, and no one wants that. I feel like I am min/maxing more as I level.
In Classic while in a group, the word 'Aggro' actually meant something. It wasn't just about spamming a perfect rotation over and over to infinity... you had to actually watch how you were dps'ing as a mage because if you pulled aggro, chances were, you died lol. Remember the day when they gave us ways to drop aggro and it was glorious? (shout out to the aff locks of old having no way to drop aggro but that fear came in handy). In Retail a tank can virtually just auto attack and hold aggro...
And the social conditioning makes it so that if threat were a real factor everyone would hate it.
You clearly don't play retail wow if you don't think tanks can't lose agro.
Back in the day if your friend played WoW, the first question you asked them was "What's your level" xD
"You play wow?"
"Yeah"
"Are you horde or alliance"
"Horde"
"What level are you?"
God, this takes me back xD Honestly I miss that part of WoW. People wondering which level you're at and cheering you on, log on to help you with quests if they could etc.
Levelling isn't core gameplay in modern MMOs. It's just a tutorial that you need to go through to learn the game.
True but in that case that tutorial should be fun in and of itself.
And you dont even learn half the stuff you need at max lvl xD. At least thats how it feels with retail WOW xD.
I think it's part of what I always loved about RS, the game *is* the leveling process.
I always loved WoW cause the leveling up in the zones had their own little plots and stories that made it fun to be there. Every new character I made I caught myself thinking of what zone I wanted to level up in next to see new quest lines or to experience my favorite quests again. Plague lands is still a huge one for me due to the traveling wagon of the wargen lady and the dwarf and blood elf paladins you meet right at the entrance of the zone. You help them and learn their desire to become New Argent members. As you travel through the zone's main road it felt so natural to stop at the places you do for your next quest hub meeting new interesting characters who follow and tag along with you. Hours later you reach the Argent keep, help them become members and the quest line plot doesn't stop there.
The experience of that huge zone cut up into smaller more enjoyable bite sizes play sessions made it almost feel like a table top campaign and the time it took to make it enjoyable made me care for that dwarf and blood elf buddy.
But the MMOs I've played that hit consoles felt so hollow where many treated the leveling up zones like just one big road that had no open exploration and more 'do the quest idiot and keep walking where we tell you.' Trying to rush you to max level where all their attention and money went to keep players attention on that late game grind.
guild wars 1 had a simular leveling expierence even though it's not a MMORPG
Nice video. Just never ever listen to the endgame andies. Leveling and questing is fun - if you want it and you let it.
If you're having fun in Shadowfang Keep, if you're having fun in Wailing Caverns - without speedrunning it, then you're doing it right.
So many things made vanilla different:
The style of gamer. Vanilla had a lot of casuals who enjoyed the leveling. Classic was filled with people who wanted to rush to endgame. The faster pace of Classic effectively removed some parts of the game. In Vanilla there was a period where the Arcanite Reaper was considered a great weapon. In classic people were clearing Molten Core the first week completely skipping over the phase of the game where weapons like the Arcanite Reaper were useful.
The lack of information outside the game. It was there in Vanilla but you had to seriously hunt for it. Find a vendor with a limited supply recipe? You could turn that into a way of making money. Now everyone just looks up where to go buy it. The best builds and gear are known.
There were also a lot of little things that got lost because Classic started at the final patch level of Vanilla. One example, in Vanilla the drop rates of elemental essences were different. Water and fire were fairly abundant but Air was extremely rare. This created an economy and an alchemist could make decent money with transmutes if they bothered to get the recipes. Transmute water to air required a long quest line in Scholomance which was made even harder because until it was nerfed most people would only run that instance as a raid and you couldn't do the quests. In Classic the drop rates were all roughly the same, essence of air was easy enough for people to obtain for their needs. Not to mention that the harder dungeons like Scholomance and Stratholme started in their nerfed status.
I loved ALL the Undead quest line and knew all the lore by heart BECAUSE of those awesome quests. Tirisfal Glades > Silverpine Forest > Hillsbrad Foothills = Absolute love!
I have a goddamn lump in my throat when I remember how happy those areas and quests made me feel.
One thing I've been doing that made my leveling experience better was after leveling my main for end game content etc, I'd level the rest through questing and without flying... It definitely takes longer but getting to do and read those random quests that most people will never do because they are not part of the campaign, exploring that random cave I saw as I was going to complete my next quest really made me appreciate the leveling more, it was no longer just a chore I had to speedrun through, it was a part of the game that I missed on my race for end game.
WoW was not only good cus' it was challenging, but becuase u actually felt a progression. People wonna feel that they are developing, when they are investing their time in a game. But aswell the shared feeling of struggle combined with developing ur char. is the best recipe for a good MMO.
Today I installed WoW for the first time since 2008. I levelled a human warlock up to level 5 in Classic and then did the same in retail in a zone I’d never seen before (exiles reach). The difference is amazing. I had so much fun in the Classic version. I was kiting mobs taking chances and using all the abilities I had available. In the retail version I just ran about and everything I touched just died. I was guided everywhere. No thought required. No challenge, just boredom.
Levelling is a huge part of the game, it’s the journey. It needs to be engaging and compelling. Seems like Blizzard have totally forgotten this.
I am playing WotLK classic now and leveling professions as you progress is so engaging, I'm kinda pumped to finally mine the iron nodes, such simple things really do make the game more engaging compared to guided rush to max level
In FF11, The leveling experience was a massive part of the game. It was the core of the game. And it was amazing.
Im ast like 73 or something as dancer, and its just became such a drag in the end and stopped playing at that point - it do need to shave down a bit
FF11 back in the ToAU era was just amazing.
I really like leveling in guild wars 2, it can be kind of boring under level 15 but there are so many dynamic events and world bosses everywhere, and I'm not even level 80 yet. Next is all the expansions and raids etc.
Totally agree, I remember vividly that I leveled all classes to 80 before I ever started seriously participating in any endgame activities. discovering new stuff, areas, events and world bosses, discovering easter eggs and jumping puzzles just was so much fun.
@@Vimalth yeah, for me none of my friends like mmos and guild wars 2 is the only game I've had fun playing solo. As there are so many events and chances to play with other players, I've barely touched the story there's so much stuff.
Same thing, bro! I have started playing like a month ago, and I'm already 150 hours in. Such a beautiful and mesmerising experience this game is.
@@shadence2001 oh damnn you must be fairly high level. I've only got about 60 hours in so far, getting closer n closer to level 80 :)
@@harryjd0_0 yeah, i am level 80 on my ranger now. around 70% world map completion. Decided to complete full story up to LW Season 1 and also to clear the whole map (+diving goggles, jumping puzzles and some other stuff). Having SOOO MUCH FUN!
The thing older MMOs have that new ones doesnt, is a sense of danger from mobs, in modern MMOs you pretty much breeze trough mobs like its nothing. You wont really encounter anything that will challenge you in retail WOW until your first normal/HC raid, and at that point you havent learned anything. Classic WOW atleast tries to teach you some tactics, and its a gradual increase in dificulty. Already in your starting zone you have to thing about how you are going to pull a mob to not have more of them than you can handle. You need some pain points to get the satisfaction out of a game. When I play retail wow I`m half asleep, because nothing is requiring my attention. I would say FFXIV is one of the ones that is better that this, but it just doesnt feel the same. I think its because of the delay in movement and skill use, kinda feels like you are moving trough water at all times. But I`m also a guy that mainly plays survival games, so that might be why I like Classic more than all other modern MMOs.
The world feeling so dangerous was what made FF11 so compelling for me compared to FF14 which bores me out of my mind.
I still recall getting a travelers backpack drop while leveling from 59 to 60 in winterspring trying to get my rep up with the wintersabers.
What I like about classic is the ability to forge your own path, you can go where u want and quest the order u want for your level, no linear path. The concept isnt even that complicated, when you go through hardships the reward feels better.. just like in real life, shocker.
the problem is again most of the progression got shifted from leveling to gearing in mmos. A 2 level gap especially near the high end used to be a massive power difference. Granted that is from the era where the grind for levels was massive. It would take days or weeks of grinding to gain a single level. Now you spend weeks grinding to get a small increase to you gear score.
Punishing Open World, 100% agree this needs to be brought back. Dying in MMO's now feels more like an inconvenience now. Vanilla WoW and even Guild Wars 1, the world really felt like it could PUNISH you at anytime, which made that adventure feeling feel good every step you progressed. Strategy on attacking, which mobs to aggro, and what materials to prioritize for gear were all big decision making moments. Also the gameplay experience did feel different every time you made a new character or class. The destination is still the same, but the journey might have multiple roads to take.
I think a major part of burnout as well is the fact that players will ALWAYS consume content at a faster pace than the developers release.
Once you have every endgame goal done, you end up creating goals out of thin air to kill the downtime before another update, and this honestly works very well when you have communities that focus on specific parts of the game. OSRS I think does all those points in the video the best comparing to all MMO's.
No. Not all mmos are rpgs . I am tried of rpg mmos.
I don't mind a slow process once or twice if I have enough to be engaged. The largest chunk of my time is seldom spent playing the game but rather tinkering with what I can do. Mostly builds.
Give me stuff to interact with, rewards for good positioning or tactics, and enough synergies/combos to make learning my kit worth more than a burnt piece of toast.
GW2 did a good job with those instant max level items on my 3rd+ character but it was a tad ridiculous when I had 70 instant max level items but only 8 character slots even after unlocking more. Also did a good job with the combo system and trait system. Until they didn't.
Possible simple solution:
-> Select Xp rate dinamically in-game (x0.5, x1) to make leveling up less rushed to ppl who like it, or normal to ppl who dislike it.
-> Select PvE difficulty in-game.
Classic Hardcore is definitely not just a creator bubble of "Oh I have to level again to keep viewers". It's legitimately fun and you see a lot of people die every day in HC, and it especially hurts when someone you dungeoned with or know well dies, but everyone shouts "WE GO AGANE" and cheers them on to reroll another character. People legitimately love doing it over and over and getting hopefully a bit further each time. I know some people who have died upwards of 20 times and are still playing. It's legitimately fun and I know Asmon despises the idea of leveling in classic again but if you like challenge, and you like breathing the social aspect of WoW back into it, HC WoW is definitely good fun.
I think he despises leveling just because of how much he got griefed while doing it. If Asmon tried HC anonymously he’d probably have a lot of fun.
@@Layman927 100% agree with this. And a Hardcore server is the only way Asmon could try Hardcore, because the griefers will be very ineffective, because the cost for them is the same. Even simply levelling a rogue to get stealth level 1 and then standing on a flight master like in booty bay would be hard because you have to actually get there without dying.
man, MMO thats fun leveling, get yourself some Guild Wars 2, man, the leveling is in Gw2, eve now a decade after launch, is still phenomenal even when compared to modern MMOs especially compared to games like WoW
man wotlk classic was such a refreshing experience for me after me quitting wow when pre bfa dropped and I absolutely love experiencing wotlk again
i used to be a warlock main but leveled a shaman this time, actually being hyped for dualwield at lvl 40 and wearing mail instead of leather and i havent had this feeling in YEARS
all i could think of all day was "man i really wanna level up my shaman more i wanna hit lvl 40" and it felt so GOOD hitting it and I still enjoy playing this class at max lvl.
I am super casual now tho unlike back in original wotlk days or legion but i still enjoy it.
DF on the other hand feels so... fast. it mostly feels like im playing a singleplayer game with almost no player interactions in dungeons or raids because everyone just focus on gearing up fast and their parsings. leveling feels very bad, even DF because nothing matters and there is nothing i wanna work towards because there is no rewarding feeling like I had with hitting 40 on my wotlk shaman because it just doesnt fucking matter.
I still enjoy DF so far but its just a complete different game in comparison to old wow up until late cata.
I hope they release TBC classic servers again and keep WotLK servers up so i can play TBC again and still play WotLK
To me the most fun I've ever had on wow was leveling from 1-60 the first time, I heard about raiding at max level but never really cared and don't even now.
Asmon should play through SWTOR, it was one of my favorite leveling experiences ever
Cept the combat, holy cow what a joke. 1, 2, 3, everything falls over dead. The concept of enemy groups was great though.
“You want big aoe, get a mage! You want big absorb shields… actually you could roll mage! Big damage… ya know what? You should probably just roll mage!”
Tubesusm, yeah I was thinking the same thing😂
@@edwardhatfield5360 It's the golden rule of any blizzard game "he who can cast Blizzard shall be forever blessed and OP!"
@@cattysplat No that's Paladin, or Warlock during MC.
I remember back in Classic how I as a rogue took down hogger as a level 14.
Ain't no sticking gnoll going to force me to group up.
Though my favourite part about classic wow was probably how simple it was.
My best WoW memory is being a warrior start in the eastern kingdoms on my first character and winning a 1v20 against Murlocs in the swamps as a lvl 6. It was a very intense moment, and felt awesome seeing all the corpses littered about and almost dying twice if it weren't for those potions I bought.
The most fun i ever had in a game, was leveling and exploring the world of vanilla WoW. Every level i gained meant something. Every new talentpoint, every new drop, every new dungeon, every new epic, even getting a mount even mattered! Today, is pewpew-ruahed from level 1-endgame (high keys and myhic raiding).
Classic WoW leveling was the most boring shit i have ever experienced
@@einfachtoll haha 😂
Classic? Or vanilla?
@@mrtbc77 too bad u didn't enjoy it. I loved it !:)
I got bored in WoW Vanilla in 2005 after waiting for the release of the game for almost two years. Never made it above lvl 44 and I quit WoW after three characters all around lvl 40. I expected a game like Diablo 2, where the mechanic would hook me right from the beginning. Questing felt so boring, I would only login when I would catch a buddy to play with. But once they hit a higher level, I never got motivated to level solo.
Exactly my experience, the quests just confused me and I played a tauren warrior lol it was so slow and weak, played d2 allt before that
I loved leveling in TBC. The game at the end felt more like a grind than play most of the time. I mean the cool thing was to try your gear and skills on the BG after spending so much time leveling and grinding but it ultimately was a grind. During leveling you get something tangible with each level - new skill, new weapon, something. I would compare leveling to training/college and metagame to work at a corporation. Which turns interesting activities into endless hours of paperwork. I would play some BGs from time to time with my friends but in the meantime i liked leveling new characters even doing the same quests over and over. In TBC there was a lot of them so you didnt have to do all of them, you could skip a few.
Another thing is that they were able to capture a lot of 'feel' in the leveling zones. The rustic of Elwyn Forest. Old man and the sea in Westfall. Indiana Jones and being a pirate in Strangleton Vale. I really liked it.
And the adventure aspect was amplified by the distances and times needed to walk to do quests. Having to walk across two continents for the succubus quest was scarry and exciting at the same time.
From what I remember from when I played back around the cusp of TBC, I loved leveling the first time or so, when it felt brand new. I also liked staying with my main character and gearing him up for raiding a few times a week with a great group of like-minded players.
Because leveling in wow classic is challenging and rewarding, it doesnt separate itself from the lategame. New unlocks actually matter, you became stronger not only to take shit on low lvl mobs, but it unlocks the ability to kill something you couldnt before. Now you pretty much can zoom though anything with autoattacks the more ablities you get, the harder game actually gets, you dont feel reward other than hitting the max lvl.
SWTOR is one of the best in engaging you from Day One. After making a character, the first thing you get is that massive Star Wars musical sting and scrolling text...just for you. You are immediately injected into a storyline that is going to grow and expand for every level you gain...and beyond. The NPCs are interesting, the dialogue is good, and if you get bored there are always side quests and stories around you.
Loved that game! The stories to go along with the dungeons (or whatever they called them) and the stories with your npc companions were such a good addition.
The leveling journey in that game is top tier. The feeling when you stola a spaceship as a bonty hunter and the whole galaxy opened up... Fucking ace. Ironic that late game was lacking in that game...
SWTOR is barely an MMO if we are being honest.
@@XarkoCZ I don’t know. It feels like an MMO about as much as any other MMO right now. Mostly solo play with others playing around you and occasionally grouping for dungeons. Certainly not on the level of like classic WOW.
@@cobra7282 which isn't a bad thing. Problem with old school style MMOs is the time sink, requiring having hours per day and knowing just the right group of people being on at the same time. And not all players can do that. SWTOR allows for both group and solo play, without penalizing you for doing either.
This dude wants his childhood back.
Who doesn’t?
@shaftgrasper6695 True. I'd take it back in a second, but making leveling 'important' is making it take forever.
@helmutsalvatore7989 I'd be interested in a game that you consider the leveling to be top tier that doesn't include classic wow.
@helmutsalvatore7989 my favorite game for leveling has gotta be skyrim. Not really easy or short depending on what you want to do.
@helmutsalvatore7989 I actually dusted it off 4 days ago. Going full thief. I didn't play classic I am a BC baby so I won't know that feeling but I imagine it was the same ish to my bc experience. First mmo will always be bench mark. The truth is you won't put in the same effort into a new mmo so therefore it isn't good. Ashes or riot whatever that comes out could have an awesome meaningful leveling system but you won't get into it and you know it. Cause you're too damn old. I got so hyped for ashes during pandemic that i backed it. I think eventually I'm going to regret that for the things mentioned. People like narc say they want something new and fresh but they don't. They just want that feeling back. Have a wonderful night!
The real problem about MMOs doing this thing where the leveling experience isn't fun is, well, you're not just contending with every other MMO. You're contending with ANYTHING the player could do instead. Why would I spend 100 hours leveling up to get to the fun part of an MMO when I could just pop an old favorite game into a system and have fun right away? Instead of spending 100 hours on WoW leveling up, I could put that 100 hours into the latest RPG masterpiece, whether it be a Final Fantasy, Persona, or The Witcher. Instead of spending 100 hours on WoW leveling up to get to the fun, I could play Doom, Mega Man, or some beloved new indie game everyone's talking about, such as Pizza Tower. I could immediately be having a good time with any of these games instead of having to earn my fun. Even worse, MMOs need to remember that if I need to put 100 hours in to get to the fun, well, you're also charging me to play during that time. Not only am I not having fun right away, I'm PAYING YOU so I can... not have fun. And if I'm paying a service that isn't giving me what I want from it, ie a good time... why am I paying for that service? Perhaps I should cancel that service, since it's not serving for me.
I remember every like 10-20 levels I would do a dungeon, and the most satisfying thing was to obtain the mount(back then it wasnt even flying) just because I felt like I cut my running simulator time in half.
I left wotlk, came back for warlords, don't remember playing 1 dungeon. It felt like I was pressured to rush to max level, so I had to pay for a level boost to get me on the same level as everyone else, then all I did was quests and farm until I made max level. Then what, now I get to enjoy dungeons? then raids? I never enjoyed that change.
If you want adventure, play Divinity original sin 2
dude a hardcore wow could be really interesting, actually. The idea of getting to max level and then trying to raid all without dying. talk about hype. if you saw a level 60 with BWL or AQ gear on hardcore, that would be sick.
Go outside
Leveling in classic is already a shitty experience, especially if you do it more than once. Wiping and losing the multitude of hours spent just to get where you were is an awful idea. Its a mode meant for people who dont value their own time and will likely be DoA.
@Helmut Salvatore yes
Leveling in Final Fantasy is integral to the game…the story is the game, the raids are the community, which share their love of the game.
Yeah crafting your own gear and also like bartering with other players like gathering linen and asking in gen if someone can make bags for you, and then giving them a little extra linen for the service and wanting to be generous like you were treating them like another human being in real life felt good.
I liked being invested in every level and wanting to be well geared, not like twinked out, but well geared each level and then see how much stronger I was defeating enemies versus someone who wasn't crafting their own gear.
Maybe that person ultimately got to level 60 before me, but I was having fun, and that's what kept me subscribed.
Same but I eventually moved on to DDO and ended up staying there to this day. Glad that game is still releases expansions.
Vanilla WoW has a formula that no other dev team, not even Blizzard themselves, has been able to re-create. It's nuts
The formula is Lineage 2... in Warcraft.
I still firmly believe flying is a big part of what killed wow. As soon as that became a world wide thing you stoped seeing people. I personally believe thats what lead them to start making characters able to solo almost everything because now there was never some random who showed up to help
Can anyone help. I just started building twinks on the wow dragonflight lvl 20 trial. Any tips or links to find guides specifically for that purpose. All I can find are guides for classic and the talent tree is not how I remember it. I play so many other games I don't have the thousands of hours I had in van- wotlk but I wanted to get back into wow. Dragonflight may be the trigger for me to get back in tho lol. Just based on the trial the game just looks beautiful.
I'm not a hardcore player so the leveling experience is everything for people like me. I've played every expansion since TBC only to max out a character because I like the world and the classes. I completely agree with this video and actually didn't play this last expansion because of it.
To me it's all about difficulty. You could die in vanilla wow's starting zones if you pulled too many mobs. The spider cave in the undead starting zones, as a new player, you had to be careful. Mindful of your surroundings.
Now it's just try to tag and pull as many mobs as possible and nuke them down whilst being at full heath. Obviously it's just mindless button mashing, no strategy, so there's no fun. In Vanilla Wow you really felt your character grow stronger.
Another garbage aspect of modern MMOs is scaling. I personally like the idea of going to a higher level area and just getting wrecked by crocodiles you weren't ready for. It gives SOUL to the world.
Yepp. And when u managed to clear that cave, u felt good, u felt like you actually achieved something 👌
People today counter your argument by saying it's not difficult, it's just tedious. I disagree, because if it's really so easy then there's no point in HC and people wouldn't die. Besides, having situational/environmental awareness is a skill. Sure, pulling 1 mob at a time isn't difficult, but do you know of the respawns behind you? The patrols? Do you know the aggro distance, which abiltiites the mobs have etc
Yes good take 👌🏼👌🏼
Why do I feel like you’re talking about running your lvl 10 night elf through wetlands.
Honestly I think ARR was great to level in and the end game became the slog that kinda sucked but was still enjoyable.
Havent played in YEARS so I don't have a clue what its like now.
Its not an slog . ARR is easy and quick to do and you have MSQ. Nixxion is wrong and baised if he thinks wow classic is better.
U literally play a story from lvl 1 in FF and not grind some stupid xp bars and he praises classic WoW with the most boring leveling ever
@@fredy2041 When it gets a bit gear grindy in late game is all im saying which is normal for an mmo if you wanna be good.
doesn't take away the game is still a blasty blast and combat is actually real good for an mmo.
Yeah I think a big one is with old wow it was very difficult and gear you would get would be very impactful and it might be several weeks before you got an upgrade. Now it's like you're constantly getting upgrades as you level up and it really makes it less exciting because I've got like a slight upgrade now instead of getting 10 strength I get 12 strength
Going back further when I was playing Everquest (back in the Rok/SoV era) there really wasn't a "End Game". I mean there were things that only guilds could do (Plane of Hate, Plane of Fear, Lord Nagafen or Lady Vox) but they were just things that guilds could do without needing for everyone to be even close to max level let alone be geared up the wazoo. There was stuff to do from L1 to L60 and getting to max level took months if not years of playing. Levelling, grouping and questing in the world WAS the game. You'd spend weeks gaining a level and it was so momentous that when you did gain that level you'd announce "Ding!!" to the zone and get a hearty congratulations from everyone because it was an actual event, particularly from about level 30 onwards.
To be honest, i convinced my mother too to play FF14, and she had fun, hit max level, did extremes and even one ultimate with me, but she also confessed, if i would have stopped playing, she would too. I guess asmon mum kept it up, cause she does it mainly for him. Which is a good thing :)
@@aaronclay4665 I’ve played FF14 for 7 years, and last fall I fell off. Then in January my oldest daughter (14) begged me to level a character with her. I didn’t really want to, but I really wanted to spend the time with my little girl. And I’ve been having so much fun because of her. She’s about to start Stormblood, and to be honest I’m starting to dread her hitting the ??????
I always love asmongold's way of doing reviews he speaks his mind and is respectful but straight forward.
He states ifs his opinion but makes it not as fake facts like some others are doing it.
Thank you for your great videos and keep going strong! ❤
A game that really nailed the leveling experience for me was Runes Of Magic, yes that wow clone, the leveling feelt like end game content, every zone had like 1-2 dungeons/raids and you had to get the items from those raids to go to the next zone because even if you had the level, you did not have the power to even beat normal enemies consistently without dying, so you really had to go to dungeons in each zone, so you where basically doing dungeon and raid mechanics from the first leveling zone, with each zone putting more difficult mechanics. Quests also forced you to go the dungeons and do stuff, and some quests were made difficult enough that you had to at least had some equipment from the dungeons to complete them with huge XP as reward, the XP that normal quest gave you was also not enough to get all the xp to get to the next zone so there were daily quests, the idea was that instead of rushing through the quests, you alternated it with leveling up professions and getting gear from the dungeons as you leveled up and every day you did the dailies first before doing the normal quests and by the time you were geared up, finished the normal quests and had your professions leveled up you could go to the next zone.
Basically the leveling experience felt like a mix of the best of the end game experience and the best of the normal leveling experience, it was cohesive.
There was not really endgame as developed as wow but it did not need endgame, leveling was a lengthy business, by the time the medium of players were at max level the next expansion was on the horizon.
I feel that that is a healthy MMO, as MMO should have few players at max level, with those at max level diverging to do other things like running a guild, and with the majority of the player base on the mid levels, when too much players reach the max level is time for the next expansion, basically the median player should never reach max level, max level should be an achievement by the most dedicated players that have outrunned the content of the game, for example is the max level at a given point is 60, by the time the median player hits 59, the next expansion is released and max level now is 80, by the time he reaches 79, the next is released and now is 100, maybe some above average player manager to hit 60 before it was increased, by the time he finishes gearing up, the level has increased. The only ones that should sit comfortably in those levels are the most dedicated players that play the best and play quick, with these few players being able to assemble a guild around them due to their early power and game knowledge.
Leveling should not be a tutorial to play your class, leveling should be an integral part of the game for every moment for the average player, there shouldn't be a moment for the average player that they can no longer level up and can only gear up.
This also means that dungeons and power levels should be made takin in to account different levels, like a level 32 and a level 38 could be in the same dungeon and while the level 39 will be better, the level 31 will not be useless, power levels should spike between zones but kind of plateu inside a zone.
MMOs don't need a good story, in fact i would say that a good story kind of takes away from an MMO, the point of the MMO is for emergent stories to appear from the way the players interact with the environment and other players, narrative needs to be good enough to not be boring but not good enough to take away from the player experience.
Lets take a look at single player RPGs, those games are not like MMOs, leveling is a integral part of the game, not a gate to play the real game, the real game is from level 1 to level MAX., MMOs should be like that as well, with the leveling experience being long enough for the developers to have time to make new content
not only that but they had bosses you could fight and that were near the starting zones and i remember chest spawns in multiple starting zones