Not everyone needs isolation. If you have a concrete subfloor with thick carpet and a thick carpet pad, you probably don't need the added cost of the isolation. Including them would raise the price. If you have a noisy wood subfloor, it can be a well needed improvement. Such is the case with my floor. Definitely worth the upgrade for the money. They are needed in my case, I don't consider them a luxury, but a necessary element. That's just my particular case. The feet in the isolation kit look simple, and you can find some that look just like them, but they are rock hard and serve no useful purpose. These have well researched elastic properties. More or less "give" might not be as effective. Much like springs on a car, there is a narrow window of usability. Super hard springs would be detrimental. So would super soft springs. Similar concept. I think they are well worth it, it's a stealthy system. Cleaner looking than other types of isolation. If I had a concrete subfloor and thick carpet, I might not see the same value in the system.
Great vid! Thank you for reviewing the SVS isolators - I got myself one for my sub. However, I want to point out that its wrong to say that the decouplers/isolators prevent less energy to be "wasted", although it is correct that they prevent less energy to be transferred to the floor. The "cleaner" bass you hear is because of less floor and adjoining walls/furniture vibrations and NOT because less energy was "wasted". The subwoofer output efficiency remains the same regardless.
My thoughts are if they really help and they make the sub sound better then why doesn't SVS already have them included on all their subs without the additional cost. Also, $50 seems steep for just four of those "feet" ($100 for two subs). I guess we know the answer.. more $$$
Everything costs money. Adding them to the subs would make them more expensive, it wouldn't be free for them to "just add it", so it would probably need to be reflected in the price. You'll notice the PC-2000 is the only cylinder sub that does not come at a discount to it's box counterpart, so it seems that they reduce prices where they can, otherwise there would be no price break for the other cylinder subs. Also, not everyone may need it or want it, then you'd get people complaining that they are paying extra for something they don't want. I'm not saying they shouldn't add it as a standard feature, it's great that the PC-2000 comes with them. I'm saying that these days, no matter what you do, someone's going to complain about it. There are even people who complain about the free shipping. You can't please everyone, as hard as you might try, and I think they try pretty hard. I think SVS generally offers a solid value, it's one of the many reasons I wanted to be their 1st affiliate. These aren't $200-$500 per set, and they are right in line with other popular isolation executions. amzn.to/2k1KPpi amzn.to/2iP4hZe
Falconsfan 71 same thing can be said about everything MONEY makes the world go around, lol I BOUGHT 2x custom design fs104 they were £300 a pair 2 years ago they came with spikes but no shoes so I had to spend another £90 on shoes for the spikes £45 for 8 shoes I needed 16, then I had to use inert filler in each stand at £35 x4 attacam attabites, not done yet then to sit each speaker on I had to get attacam isolation gel pads £20 x 2 for 16 gel pads. now for something that I thought was only going to cost £600 only ended up spending £870 and yet I'm considering getting acoustic top plates at £90 a pair I'm gonna need 2. and this was with out the cost of my speakers dali zensor 3 x 2 pairs at £300 a pair connected by QED silver anniversary xt speaker cable at 10 meters x 4 at £135 per cable who said home cinema was cheap but one thing I honestly can say is doing all that its been worth it cause now my back speakers can out do my dali zensor 7 what the HELL its true Bass is so smooth and plenty off it but in complete controll, it's same drivers that are in zensor 7 but benefit is extra 2 tweeters on left and right and there not enclosed in one unit. more space to breath
I'm on ceramic tiles ontop of a concrete slab. The soundpath isolation feets actually decreased the output on the 40hz band for my pair of SB2000s. I mean, rattling was already pretty much non-existent in my room other than the ceiling fan. So no, there was no benefit whatsoever in terms of sound quality with the soundpath feets on concrete. 20hz bass will still travel through the ground regardless and cause reverbs around the house. Physics cannot be beaten. The one thing it DOES do however is that it stops my SB2000 from bouncing all around the place (it's one thing I dislike about the SB2000, the weight). But to be frank, I could have just used some bluetack or something which would have cost significantly less anyways.
I checked with Ed Mullen at SVS since I don't have a concrete floor to test on, and he confirmed your point. These really are best for wood floors/sub-floors. Basically, if you can stomp your foot and create a decent sound (you really can't on concrete) then these would be good. Certainly explains a lot of the controversy, people with concrete floors must think it has no benefit at all, aside from keeping some subs from dancing. Isolation does not stop ANY sound energy, but instead reduces the physical energy coming off of the box from being transmitted into the floor. Much less of a problem with concrete.
I immediately noticed a difference when I installed them on my pb1000 in my hardwood floor living room. There were so many rattles before, now they're almost non existent. It's allowed me to turn my sub level up to very satisfying levels lol.
Make sure you order the box of six for the pd16. I own the sb16 and 4 is all that is needed. Those soundpath really work well for me. I have wood floors.
JD Air suspension for subwoofers? Could work I suppose. Gotta get the right "action", but I could see something like that working. That's an interesting idea, made me think!
Good morning I recently bought 1 sennheiser ambeo soundbar which I am really happy with. I would like to add 1 subw model svs sb4000 or svs pb4000 for more bass. I would like to ask you if by inserting one of these two models I can improve the bass sound more or given the high costs of the models described above, I only keep the soundbar? we are talking about € 2399 and € 2899. for this reason I ask you if by adding 1 subw I really gain from listening to both music and movies. Thanks for your answer
Just a heads up SVS actually recommend removing the metal housing of the Feet on the PB 2000 and timber floors, I removed mine when I installed the feet on my PB 2000. Nice video.
Nice vid. Obvious statement but to me, vinyl is only worth it if you are going to use it. If the romantic idea of spinning records is something that really excites you, try it out on a small budget to see if it sticks. I have a nice setup at home with a larger collection, but I rarely use it. Digital is just so convenient now, and you can stream, cast or play completely uncompressed. Still, it's nice to have when I feel like it. And you do have a following, so it's another topic of conversation and a nice visual in the backdrop. I run about 5-6 setups in my shop that incorporate turntables, and sometimes, when done just right, a demo will give people the chills or even bring about strong emotional responses. There's just something about analog sound mixed with nostalgia which brings that out in people.
Forgot your second question: I've had good luck with the popular Carbon Debut from Pro-Ject at or around $399. Their entry tables have unfortunately given me reliability issues, so I couldn't recommend them. Maybe others have had better luck with them or another brand at a lower price point. You can also pick up a great vintage table if you are lucky to find an example in good working order. Head over to audiogon and see what's floating around.
That's where I'm at, I want to start with a decent player, not cheap, but not crazy. If it sticks, it sticks. If not, I haven't invested thousands for more expensive ways to collect dust. I've heard some good things about Pro-Ject, but good to know about the entry level stuff. Great feedback!
I like you vids I have a project debut carbon dc and to me it sound great I upgrade the platter to the acrylic and improves the sound too I seen some people having issues with the turntable but not me. cheers
I feel Auralex's Baby Gramma/Sub Dude series is a better buy then just getting 4 rubber feet. I have them on my subs. Is the bass better? Maybe, maybe not, depends where and what your sub is sitting on. The biggest difference I noticed was the lower amount of bass leaking from my bedroom. It will help a bit with rattling but if there is a lot of bass energy/high SPL, stuff will still rattle.
Does the Sub Dude allow the sub to wiggle like that? I haven't tried one yet. I don't think it's fair to just call these rubber feet. They have a specific compound and intent, and they do their job well. You could say you drive around on rubber balloons, but it seems to diminish the thought that went into the tires, even if it's a true statement. How much it helps will depend on how "impressionable" your sub-floor is, I agree. If I stomp on my floor, it's going to make a big sound because it's wood. If I stomp on a concrete floor, you don't hear much in comparison.
With the Sub Dude it raises the sub much higher as you still use the subs included feet. That should help a bit more with reflections from the floor. Also for down-firing subs it's a bit more useful as it provides carpeted MDF to fire off of. Neither product will probably sound much different, I would just pay for a platform versus paying for feet. Also the Sub Dude can be used with any sub. Hell people use it for turntables, guitar amps, anything.
“The SVS SoundPath Subwoofer Isolation System works with nearly every subwoofer brand and model to improve bass performance while reducing floor and wall vibrations, noise artifacts and complaints from neighbors or roommates”, SVS quote. If so you would think the isolation system would be included with all SVS subwoofers post development❓💰❓
Subwoofer 101,true, the PC 2000 is a down fire sub, without the extra height there wouldn’t be much down fire space? If someone chooses to opt for different solution, great but wouldn’t you think SVS would want to provide their subs, in their own words, with the optimal “improvements”. The customers always has a choice but at least he knows that SVS provided the best subwoofer that included their best technology? Even if SVS added 50 bucks, they can’t be accused of not putting out SVS’s best product. I side with what I am, the customer. I do not feel I am being critical, I feel like I am attempting to encourage SVS to put out their best which is a win win. As it stands now, one may be lead to believe the separate purchase “choice” is revenue related which is fine but don’t tell me I am receiving the best SVS has to offer. What would be wrong with SVS including the current spikes and the iso system, give the customer a couple of choices you speak of. I really enjoy your videos and part of the reason is that you enjoy making them and your integrity.
Make sure you order the box of six for the pd16. I own the sb16 and 4 is all that is needed. Those soundpath really work well for me. I have wood floors.
I actually have the Auralex platform now under my Martin Logan sub. I got it for less than $40 on eBay. I'm not sure that it really makes any difference… not without running any tests.
Hi sir, would you recommend pb 1000 VS an sb 2000? Living room is connected to the dining room. Also I can't really play too loud as I am in the 2nd floor. And I can't have the pb 2000 it's just too big
PB1000 is pretty powerful given it's size and price. Unless you want massive bass or have a huge room, it's likely more than powerful enough for your use case especially since you can't it very loud anyways.
I'm sorry I missed this. Yes, dual PB-1000's would be my pick. PLENTY of output for you, and you can alter the gain to make it more dynamic, or less dynamic for your neighbors.
I bought the sb 1000 and returned it for the pb and I like it more. And even in modest volume I am very happy (though my kef q150 is pretty decent in bass). Should keep me happy for a while. Thanks
Just purchased 2 for the SVS and valodyne. Will do tests and review. I also do the vinyl resales in the milwaukee Chicago area for the 3 big retailers in the area for acquiring used vinyl and new for under $30 for an 180 gram audiophile LP pressing. I also love to compare the same musicians track on vinyl and then cd then to digital to analog converter at 44 to 48khz with a high bit 32 sabre dac, dragonfly or specifically the RIAA amplifiers using vacuum tubes. using the 12au7 tubes made in Japan... it brings the preamplifier capabilities to new levels or can reduce your 60 hz hum or grounding issues. I find that the sound from my cheap audiotechnica at lp60 uses an automatic moving coil turntable with either a phono output as well as a line level output for straight RCA analog connections to preamplifier or solid state amp or even vacuum tube amplifier.
Subwoofer 101 certainly digital sounds better than vinyl although that is a result of not properly matching phono equipment. If you take the same track on each vinyl and digital, you could with more expensive equipment make the vinyl sound much better. I have to admit there are properties of digital that just seem to sound better with less equipment. As opposed to using a phono preamp and a stereo amplifier. My opinion is vinyl takes on a hands on approach with all the tweaks and eqs such as pitch 60hz and 50hz anti skating and matching cartridge to tonearm... can get complicated, although it is the act of placing the stylus where you prefer it, selecting a track based on seeing the record spinning, instead of relying on a screen.
With a 28 hertz bottom end, it doesn't go deep enough for me. 80 watts seems a little under-powered too. Cool looking design though, and I like the fact that it has on-board EQ's.
I have no idea, another viewer said no, and I don't have a concrete floor. I assume the tile is over concrete, or is it over a wood sub floor? With a wood subfloor, I think it would help. If it didn't help, you could always return them, so I guess you could try it to see.
I have a boston subwoofer CSSUB10 11, down firing, oriented to the floor, but I do not hear many basses, what if I have is vibrations in floor windows and furniture, this product will solve this? And if it is better to put a carpet on it? Or directly on the clean floor
Will these work on carpet? I live in a town house, and I'm trying to keep sub vibrations from going through the walls, my neighbors go nuts when I watch movies or play games like call of duty or battlefield with tons of explosions going off.
It is great on carpet! Just keep in mind that you could get a slight bump in output as a result, something I definitely didn't expect. It can help reduce rattles, but every situation is unique. I think it's a good idea, just keep in mind that you might have to account for potential increase in output and reduce the gain accordingly. I only saw .4-.8 dB increase in output, so not massive, but it was unexpected.
@@Subwoofer101 funny, I heard the opposite from sound a vision's review of these feet they said they had to turn their subs up. I when ahead and ordered 2 sets of them for my Klipsch subs, hope they work out for me, I basically have to turn my subs off currently.
Yeah, it depends on the subfloor and a few other factors. On a concrete subfloor, you could lose some output. My floor is so bad that I saw a slight increase. You can also check out my "apartment tips" video, one of the tips is to alter the gain structure, essentially the opposite of the "Gain Hack". Generally you want to increase dynamics, but that's worse for shared wall situations.
@@Subwoofer101 thanks I'll take a look, Shane from spare change lives in an apartment and has people above and below him and used acoustic absorption treatments on his walls, but my room is a shared room with the kitchen and dining room, and my girlfriend won't put up with me making our downstairs sound like an anechoic chamber or look like one 😂
Since the subwoofer moves around a lot, wouldn’t this cancel out a lot of the bass by moving the opposite direction of the woofer? I’m on the fence about this product for my klipsch sw-115. I have wood floors with an unfinished basement below. The sw115 is really boomy and can shake my entire house if I want to push it. But I feel like I need tighter bass. Do you think these would help me?
Svs claims that the feet are tuned in such a way that the frequency response is the same as without and nothing is cancelled out, despite the wobble. Firmer of softer rubber could change the sound significantly
I was just wondering how useful do you think something like this would be in a down firing subwoofer. Since a vast amount of the energy in a down firing is going into the floor from the woofer would these (or in my case super spikes) be of any use in reducing rattles? In answer to your question I am not running vinyl. Although I like the idea of it and I agree their is something very "comforting" about the idea of putting on a record. My very first music device was a second hand record player and I loved it. Still have 15 or so records from that time collecting dust now in the attic. Sadly I barely have enough money to buy the music I want in digital format let alone spend extra on a vinyl copy so it's not something I am considering at the moment or in the near future. Edit: Oh, it looks lime I can get the SVS isolation feet from Amazon.co.uk. I'll have to see if my sub is compatible.
The energy you're trying to isolate is the physical energy of the sub, not the sound energy. So orientation "shouldn't" matter too much. If you have a wood floor, or carpeted with wood sub floor, I think those situations offer the greatest benefit. If you have concrete, some have said they didn't notice much difference, but I still don't know myself. The rattles that were resolved in my room were from physical energy of the box that was transferring into the floor, not the sound energy. I still have other rattles far away from the subs that haven't changed, and that's from the sound energy. The isolation does not change that. I would also suspect that the weight of the moving mass of the driver vs the weight of the entire sub would make a difference as to how much of an effect you get out of it. As for vinyl, I have considered the extra involvement and cost, and it's certainly more time consuming and expensive. Buying albums is not cheap. The sound is what I'm curious about. What are the differences, is there more of a "feeling" from it? The intangible stuff. I'm curious about it, and far from set on it. Mostly, I just want to hear vinyl on a good setup at my leisure, not in some store taking up someone's time. Good feedback, thanks!
Ok, thanks for the reply. I'll definitely add these to my wishlist as reducing the number of rattles would be nice. There is just one bass frequency where something in my shelving unit goes bonkers and rattles very loudly - sort of distracts from the movie. Be nice to eliminate that or reduce if possible.
Another great video as usual. I have this system that I bought at the same time as I purchased my first SVS product, the PB-1000 so I have no idea what it sounded like without it. All I know is the PB-1000 sounds incredible. I live in a wall to wall carpeted condo and I wonder if it helps with the neighbors but I have no way of knowing.
I used a hack where you take muffin tins, racket balls, insert the balls in the muffin pan , put a neoprene or rubber mat under the muffin pan , place the subwoofer on the racket balls, for pb 2000 you will need a 12 muffin pan, for the sb2000 a 9 muffin pan, this sounds funny but it works better then svs's overpriced option. 20 dollars for enough trays for 8 subwoofers, you cant see them either, unless you lay on the ground
If they were basic cabinet feet, you would be right. But they aren't. Those feet are hard and do not isolate. These are more like motor mounts, dampening the vibration. If you have a noisy floor, like my wood floor, they are worth it.
Myself and others value your tips generally, but I've never heard you mention a top-10 or top-5 budget subwoofer list. And while I do agree that SVS and the other marquis brands do make great aspirational subs, only a small fraction of your viewers can afford them, so the others would appreciate options in the $200-300 budget, which is where the average person lies. So let's see you go out of your pocket and showcase the regular Joe's subwoofers along with your great tips and tricks. Afterall you are 'subwoofer 101'.
I know you buy almost all your stuff new but I would never recommend that anyone gets into vinyl with a new turntable. The prices of new turntables are just far too much when compared to the used market. I buy almost all of my equipment used and I have bought several turntables and have had very good luck. One turntable was an NAD 5080 which I bought for $10 from Goodwill. I also bought a phono preamp at the same time for $3. I eventually gifted this to my brother for Christmas, but for $13 this is an excellent sounding turntable. Another turntable I have is a Kenwood KD-3100. I paid $25 for this and then paid $70 for a new Shure M97xe cartridge. I have directly compared this to the Project Debut Carbon ($400) and my Kenwood performs much better. I have one record in particular which is very demanding to playback. The Project just kept getting to one part and skipping over and over on this perfectly new record. The Project was properly setup, it just couldn't handle this test. If you have time, you should check places like Goodwill and Habitat for Humanity for deals. If you don't like putting in that much effort, then I would check Craigslist for a good used Technics. I love listening to records, but honestly I only think vinyl is worth it if you buy mostly used records for
Good feedback, I'm a little worried about having a bad experience and relaying it to my audience, but it may be worth doing after a good baseline, I don't doubt what you're saying. I'm not against used audio, but I don't want to inadvertently disparage an entire audio segment over a worn stylus or something I don't yet understand. If I get a decent quality turntable and think it stinks, that would be more reliable. I don't expect it to stink, or I wouldn't be considering it, but I appreciate your opinion.
I'm a vinyl collector. It's TOTALLY worth it. The sound speaks for itself. Digital output distorts, while analog doesn't. I myself have a Teac TN=300 in a gloss white finish. Set me back about $350 but it's everything I was looking. For and more. The stock isolation feet are amazing and can handle my. Audioengine A8 subwoofer without knocking the stylus around. Vinyl is the best way to enjoy music.
try Disney world of wow bluray vibration test very good for showing u what vibrates. I use 8 attacam isolation gel pads just on my dali vocal then on my back 4 speakers dali zensor 3 I have on custom design fs104 stands but I sit each speaker on 4 attacam isolation gel pads each. in each stand I have 7.5 kg of attacam attabites but the stands are on spikes on shoes with blutack underneath to stop them moving and absorb vibration, my dali zensor 7 are spiked on shoes and blutack. for my dali ef12 sub I have sitting on 12 visual pads. all helps your enjoyment of movies, everthing on my stand is isolated.
The Attacama look to be a UK only item, bummer. The Disney Blu Ray is $60-90 on Amazon right now, ouch. I'll keep an eye out for it though, good feedback!
Subwoofer 101 np I had to get the region 1 version but wort it. another good one for calibrating your tv is Spears & Munsil High Definition Benchmark, 2nd Edition but for calabrating tv to get most perfect And accurate picture.that your tv is capable of producing better than paying someone £250 to calibrate your tv. lol I'm still trying to finish my home cinema room/living room, I'll send you pictures of what it looks like. if you have book shelf speakers custom design do amazing sounding stands. but don't know if you can get them in usa
Subwoofer 101 can I give you another tip on my denon x4200 I've turned display to off so when u watching a movie u don't see the display front. but when you hit volume it brings it up for couple sec. looks much better shame you can't do same thing on the denon 3313ud 😈
Subwoofer 101 just was watching your video again. could I give you couple tips, I've been into home cinema from when DVD started and my first player was Sony 735. now I'm up to denon 3313ud. I have a 7.1 set up the your speaker wires need to be a bit more well maintained, i.e. power wire and speaker wires crossing each other. I use QED genesis silver spiral on fronts and center and QED silver anniversary XT on my back 4 channels. I still try and keep each speaker and power cable apart from each other. I also use Monster Cable GreenPower MP HDP 850G 8-Outlets Surge Suppressor for clean and controlled power to my equipment to protect it look it up you should get it. I use two, one if for bluray player amp console. no set top box cause more wires and interferance lol and the second one I use for my subwoofer only but from a different power outlet
Sorry I cannot pick one, I have albums over 50 years old and I love them. Digital should be quit and not harsh. A quit new album is so good to hear, But I have no problem with noise on them.
LOL, raising your sub a few inches magically changed your FR? 1/4 wavelength @ 20hz is 56.5 ft.... How does raising the sub up a few inches change the amplitude enough to effect this...? I'd like to see REW graphs of before and after.
Sounds like placebo and snake oil. "Decoupling" the subwoofer from the floor will not eliminate that. I'm not sure what's better, AudioQuest cables or these. How about Acoustically induced vibrations at the high SPL? Without measurements to back up any of this, it's a matter of personal opinion. I didn't see a single graph of before and after either. You can also buy cheaper feet for close to these for like $1 each from Parts express. All I smell, feel and hear is snake oil dripping.
My take is that the feet are meant to keep the energy that the driver is making from vibrating the floor, so you have a lower noise floor (less things in the room rattling) and so more of the energy that is normally transferred to the floor stays in the driver/cabinet which should result in more spl at certain low frequencies and even result in a "tighter" sound. The effect is probably pretty subtle, so seeing it on graphs along with some objective a-b blind testing would be nice.
***** The floor will vibrate regardless if the sub is on rubber feet. That's how sound waves work. "The effect is probably pretty subtle" Why isn't every other subwoofer manufacture/ID company adding these with all their subs? Why doesn't SVS add them to all their subs and not just their cylinders? $$$$. "Tight" sound. What is that?
I wondered why they weren't standard on all svs subs too. Don't know why they aren't, I don't work at svs. Also, I was talking about the energy of the moving parts inside the sub. Most of that energy is turned into sound and some escapes through whatever the sub is physically touching, no? Just like the top of a tightly wound drum, a speaker can sound "tighter" or "punchier". Well, at least based on what I've heard. Totally a subjective opinion though.
Subwoofer 101 I live in apartment and I use styrofoam and does the job I got a velodyne DD 18 the soft black styrofoam does a good job on the Sunfire subwoofer
Experienced audiophiles know that the better coupled the subwoofer is to a concrete floor or walls, the tighter and better the bass will be. What this isolation system does is attenuate the bass from the subwoofer by allowing it to "float" above the floor, partially cancelling the cone's movement and turning it to heat. Some people have reported a loss of up to 2 dB in bass level, confirming the above. Losing 2 dB is equivalent to losing 37% of bass power! So yes, you are transmitting less vibration to your walls and floor, but you are also losing bass power. That is a deal-breaker in my book.
6:03 "You can actually, really see it moving!" Question: Since when is a subwoofer cabinet movement modulated by the incoming signal has been a good thing? Answer: Never has. Never will.
Couple of things. If you have a concrete floor, you likely won't see any benefit. People with concrete floors may believe, understandably so based on their own experiences, that there is no benefit to isolation. I discovered this after I made the video. If you have a very active floor like mine, which is fairly loud when you stomp on it, then you should notice a positive difference. I did not take concrete floors into account when I did this video. My experience was that it was a very positive upgrade in every way, but now I understand that it may not be good for everyone. I also understand the controversy a little better, once having shared your beliefs. I tried a few other forms of isolation, mostly foam pads of varying thickness and density, and didn't notice anything at all. I expected the bass to be quieter too, but that wasn't the case with these. I've also had a lot of "experienced audiophiles" tell me that dual subs are purely a marketing ploy, that deep subs "can't possibly" sound good with music, or good at all in some cases, and a host of other things that I completely disagree with. Having experience does not mean you can't be mistaken or otherwise be missing something, myself included. Rather than lose db as you suggest, I gained between .4 and .8 db just by adding the feet. I measured a bass heavy song, "Antidote" several times with feet on and feet off, no other changes. Reliably, output was higher with isolation. The more inert the floor is (like concrete or an extremely tight wood subfloor), the less likely you are to see a gain. When I first installed them, I found that I could run the AVR subwoofer trim about .5 to a full db lower than without. Obviously, I found this impressive, and would like to think that anyone would. I'm currently running without isolation, (the PB 16 Ultra requires 2 more feet per sub) and around the subs there are absolutely more rattles now, which as you can imagine takes away from the experience. Fewer rattles and more output, it really seemed like a slam dunk to me. Across the room, there is no noticeable difference. It has no effect on the traveling sound waves. It seems to have an effect on the physical energy being transferred into an active floor. If you've ever seen a dancing subwoofer (I've seen an SB-2000 do it under 20 hertz), then you've seen the physical energy that it isolates. The argument that isolation might stop sound waves would be bogus. These are more like modern automotive motor mounts, versus the rock hard motor mounts that left you feeling the engine in older cars. It has no effect on the exhaust note, but cars sure rattle less these days. Here are the measurements I took. It may not be conventional, but it's demonstrative of the difference that I heard. facebook.com/subwoofer101/posts/1655931894707758 Never have I claimed to know it all, or even to be the foremost expert. I'm a layperson, and I share my learning experiences as I go. I make mistakes and I own them. Take a look at my "No Atmos" video if there is any doubt, most self proclaimed "audiophiles" would NEVER admit to a tragic mistake like that, much less publish it. I don't take myself too seriously, and by publishing my mistakes it helps others avoid them. So to answer your question, as far as the sub moving around on isolation, in my environment, yes, it is absolutely a very good thing. You've heard the expression "never say never", right? Could it actually take some response away on an inert (concrete) floor? I honestly have no idea, but I have no trouble conceding that it's possible. I don't think this video was a mistake or wrong, it was my honest experience. A little incomplete? Yes, but the product works for my situation, and I'm confident that my measurements are repeatable on a floor as active as mine. Hopefully this will change the conversation from "cool aide drinking fools" vs "dinosaur doubters" to a more friendly and productive discussion of "active floors" vs "inert floors". That has been the source of the whole controversy, as far as I can tell.
Dear Subwoofer 101, you say that the product might not be effective for concrete floors. So, if my sub is still rattling what would be the cause of that? Would isolators have any impact on a sub rattling if it is on concrete?
I've been toying with the idea of getting them, but I have two subs on terracotta tiles sitting on concrete. They never move. I keep thinking that if I added the feet, it would take away from some of the output.
I loved your early vids. But since you sold out to SVS by becoming their affiliate, you labor to find good things to say about overpriced scammy garbage like these things, but not all of us are fools. Is it worth it to sell your soul for a few thousand bucks worth of goods from SVS?
I pushed for the affiliate program, something that didn't exist at SVS until I asked for it, and I put a lot of work into making it happen, so for you to call me a "sell out", as one might imagine, is EXTRA irritating. It took well over a year to make this happen, and we're still ironing things out. I could have signed up as a Velodyne affiliate in 5 minutes, with better terms and far better brand recognition. Snap of the finger, super easy. In terms of selling out, I could get a lot more money going with any number of common brands. Instead, I spent over a year to get the SVS affiliate program going. Why? They make great subwoofers, some of the best in the world. They were on my "Best Subwoofers" list well before I ever spoke with them, so it's not like I'm Forrest Gump selling ping pong paddles that I don't use. I absolutely stand by this review based solely on the merits of the performance that I experienced. I take issue with the suggestion that I would fabricate an opinion AT ALL, much less that I would choose to do so on such a low priced item. If I was going to sell out, why not a Velodyne DD18+ for $5,700? Better affiliate terms and brand recognition. Not to pick on Velodyne, but if I was just in it for the money, I could have made some better decisions financially. The really funny thing about the Subwoofer Isolation System is that it actually works, especially on wood sub-floors. The measurements I took easily back up what I heard. facebook.com/subwoofer101/posts/1655931894707758 Not only could you see in the video that the subwoofer clearly moves a lot more than it would with regular feet or no feet at all, but on a wood sub-floor the difference in sound was pretty clear to me. You may not get as much of a benefit on concrete subfloors, but I think they are a worthwhile upgrade with a floor like mine. Just to be clear, SVS has not "comped" me ANY equipment, it's all on loan and not mine to keep. It all goes back unless I decide to purchase something. Being an affiliate does not mean I'm required to say nice things about their products. What it does allow me to do is monetize products that I think are good, and would spend my own money on. As you know well, UA-cam doesn't pay well until you're huge. I still can't justify my efforts with the few paychecks I receive from Adsense, Amazon, SVS etc.., it's almost a volunteer thing at this point, but the channel is growing and I like the subject matter. As I understand it, SVS sells more sealed subwoofers than ported. If I was in it just for the money, the smart money would have me pitching those, but I prefer ported subs. See my "SB-2000" video or "ported vs sealed" if there is any doubt. Great subs for sure, but I prefer ported. You can see that on "The List", there is not a sealed sub to be found. No Velodyne, Klipsch, or Bose either. Maybe not the most lucrative decision on my part, but it's genuine. www.subwoofer101.com/best-subwoofers/ I could recommend a lot of subwoofers through Amazon. I could make a LOT more by pointing to well known, top selling brands. The affiliate program was just to give me better "odds" with SVS products than I previously had with Amazon. I was pointing traffic to SVS products on Amazon long before I ever had any communication with them. I will say that, had it not been for SVS allowing me to demo their products, I would easily have less than 50% of the content I have now, and probably less than 200 subscribers. Their support (letting me tinker with their equipment and talking with their experts) has had a major impact on the quality and quantity of content I've produced. I never would have known just how important dual subs are had they not sent out that first set of PB-1000's. Now I view duals as a priority for quality bass. I'm really proud of the affiliation, it's an accomplishment for such a small channel like mine. I may have put my heart in this, but my soul was never for sale.
I take back my words/nasty accusation and admit I was wrong, but I still think these things are total scams. You could accomplish the same thing with pieces of rubber from AC Moore e.g.
I appreciate that. Keep in mind, I wouldn't bother making a video if I didn't think these were a good product, and the measurements backed up what I was hearing. Yes, you can build your own solution, and you may or may not accomplish the goal of this product. I've seem similar looking feet, but they were hard and do absolutely nothing to actually decouple the sub from the floor. This design is deceptively simple. In terms of pricing, they are on par with other isolation systems, like this option: amzn.to/2oCk6Ef I think these have a nice stock appearance and don't draw attention to themselves. Even people on concrete floors will use them on sealed subs like SB-2000's as they can "walk" during heavy deep passages. For people like me with wood subfloors, these provide a real, rather elegant solution, and the louder the floor is when you stomp on it with your foot, the more of a benefit you will likely realize. Right now I don't have them installed (the PB-16 Ultra has 6 feet instead of 4, so I'm waiting for another set), and I can definitely tell. The floor is a lot more active without the isolation, and not in a good way in my opinion. For what it's worth, in all of my experience with SVS, they don't seem to be the kind of company to leverage their name on an ineffective product for the sake of a buck. Their customer base, many being hardened audio consumers painfully aware of the vast snake oil problem, wouldn't put up with it. With this product come issues. A wood floor person will say it's excellent, where a concrete floor person will not notice as drastic of a difference, if any at all. You can imagine the ensuing arguments and proclamations that result when people have totally different experiences with the exact same product. Intelligence starts getting insulted. I'm not trying to convince you to go buy a set, for whatever reason you are turned off by them, and that's fine. But to call them a scam is simply not true. They work as designed, and are clearly competitively priced.
Absolutely, too much rambling. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate you reviewing this product, but it certainly didnt need to be 15 mins. Especially when the video was mainly a static camera without an actual demo (yes I understand this is UA-cam and perhaps not the best place for sound demos)
I get a lot of people thanking me for my "gabbing". Usually, people find my channel very useful for improving their sound in their home. It's not for everyone though. Some people demand to hear what a 1500 watt subwoofer sounds like through their laptop speakers, which is 100% impossible. You might not appreciate the value my channel provides, but others do. I'm sorry it didn't work out for you.
Makes me wonder why manufacturers just don't include these with the subs. Especially these high end subwoofers.
So they can overcharge the customers.
Not everyone needs isolation.
If you have a concrete subfloor with thick carpet and a thick carpet pad, you probably don't need the added cost of the isolation.
Including them would raise the price.
If you have a noisy wood subfloor, it can be a well needed improvement. Such is the case with my floor. Definitely worth the upgrade for the money.
They are needed in my case, I don't consider them a luxury, but a necessary element. That's just my particular case.
The feet in the isolation kit look simple, and you can find some that look just like them, but they are rock hard and serve no useful purpose.
These have well researched elastic properties. More or less "give" might not be as effective.
Much like springs on a car, there is a narrow window of usability.
Super hard springs would be detrimental. So would super soft springs. Similar concept.
I think they are well worth it, it's a stealthy system. Cleaner looking than other types of isolation.
If I had a concrete subfloor and thick carpet, I might not see the same value in the system.
@@Subwoofer101 not everyone uses the charger that comes with their phone, but still should be included.
Great vid! Thank you for reviewing the SVS isolators - I got myself one for my sub. However, I want to point out that its wrong to say that the decouplers/isolators prevent less energy to be "wasted", although it is correct that they prevent less energy to be transferred to the floor. The "cleaner" bass you hear is because of less floor and adjoining walls/furniture vibrations and NOT because less energy was "wasted". The subwoofer output efficiency remains the same regardless.
My thoughts are if they really help and they make the sub sound better then why doesn't SVS already have them included on all their subs without the additional cost. Also, $50 seems steep for just four of those "feet" ($100 for two subs). I guess we know the answer.. more $$$
Everything costs money. Adding them to the subs would make them more expensive, it wouldn't be free for them to "just add it", so it would probably need to be reflected in the price. You'll notice the PC-2000 is the only cylinder sub that does not come at a discount to it's box counterpart, so it seems that they reduce prices where they can, otherwise there would be no price break for the other cylinder subs.
Also, not everyone may need it or want it, then you'd get people complaining that they are paying extra for something they don't want. I'm not saying they shouldn't add it as a standard feature, it's great that the PC-2000 comes with them. I'm saying that these days, no matter what you do, someone's going to complain about it. There are even people who complain about the free shipping. You can't please everyone, as hard as you might try, and I think they try pretty hard.
I think SVS generally offers a solid value, it's one of the many reasons I wanted to be their 1st affiliate. These aren't $200-$500 per set, and they are right in line with other popular isolation executions.
amzn.to/2k1KPpi
amzn.to/2iP4hZe
Falconsfan 71 same thing can be said about everything MONEY makes the world go around, lol I BOUGHT 2x custom design fs104 they were £300 a pair 2 years ago they came with spikes but no shoes so I had to spend another £90 on shoes for the spikes £45 for 8 shoes I needed 16, then I had to use inert filler in each stand at £35 x4 attacam attabites, not done yet then to sit each speaker on I had to get attacam isolation gel pads £20 x 2 for 16 gel pads. now for something that I thought was only going to cost £600 only ended up spending £870 and yet I'm considering getting acoustic top plates at £90 a pair I'm gonna need 2. and this was with out the cost of my speakers dali zensor 3 x 2 pairs at £300 a pair connected by QED silver anniversary xt speaker cable at 10 meters x 4 at £135 per cable who said home cinema was cheap but one thing I honestly can say is doing all that its been worth it cause now my back speakers can out do my dali zensor 7 what the HELL its true Bass is so smooth and plenty off it but in complete controll, it's same drivers that are in zensor 7 but benefit is extra 2 tweeters on left and right and there not enclosed in one unit. more space to breath
Iso Acoustics stands are even MORE expensive.
Sir, it would be great if you showed us how to go about fitting those to the subwoofer.
They just screw in
I'm on ceramic tiles ontop of a concrete slab. The soundpath isolation feets actually decreased the output on the 40hz band for my pair of SB2000s. I mean, rattling was already pretty much non-existent in my room other than the ceiling fan.
So no, there was no benefit whatsoever in terms of sound quality with the soundpath feets on concrete.
20hz bass will still travel through the ground regardless and cause reverbs around the house. Physics cannot be beaten.
The one thing it DOES do however is that it stops my SB2000 from bouncing all around the place (it's one thing I dislike about the SB2000, the weight). But to be frank, I could have just used some bluetack or something which would have cost significantly less anyways.
I checked with Ed Mullen at SVS since I don't have a concrete floor to test on, and he confirmed your point. These really are best for wood floors/sub-floors. Basically, if you can stomp your foot and create a decent sound (you really can't on concrete) then these would be good.
Certainly explains a lot of the controversy, people with concrete floors must think it has no benefit at all, aside from keeping some subs from dancing. Isolation does not stop ANY sound energy, but instead reduces the physical energy coming off of the box from being transmitted into the floor. Much less of a problem with concrete.
I immediately noticed a difference when I installed them on my pb1000 in my hardwood floor living room. There were so many rattles before, now they're almost non existent. It's allowed me to turn my sub level up to very satisfying levels lol.
+pitis2flie Right? I had to turn the trim down to get back to normal, but then turned it back up. Let's you have a little more of the good stuff.
I bought them for my dual SB-2000's. They perform great but I was disappointed that they are so expensive.
They are about on par or cheaper than what's out there. They deliver what they promise, I know those SB-2000's can dance when it gets really low.
How do to it like the sb 2000 sir? Currently choosing between sb 2k or pb 1k
Make sure you order the box of six for the pd16. I own the sb16 and 4 is all that is needed. Those soundpath really work well for me. I have wood floors.
What about putting a small bike tube below it, with it inflated
JD Air suspension for subwoofers? Could work I suppose. Gotta get the right "action", but I could see something like that working. That's an interesting idea, made me think!
Good morning I recently bought 1 sennheiser ambeo soundbar which I am really happy with. I would like to add 1 subw model svs sb4000 or svs pb4000 for more bass. I would like to ask you if by inserting one of these two models I can improve the bass sound more or given the high costs of the models described above, I only keep the soundbar? we are talking about € 2399 and € 2899. for this reason I ask you if by adding 1 subw I really gain from listening to both music and movies. Thanks for your answer
Just a heads up SVS actually recommend removing the metal housing of the Feet on the PB 2000 and timber floors, I removed mine when I installed the feet on my PB 2000.
Nice video.
Didn't know that, interesting! Thanks!
Nice vid. Obvious statement but to me, vinyl is only worth it if you are going to use it. If the romantic idea of spinning records is something that really excites you, try it out on a small budget to see if it sticks. I have a nice setup at home with a larger collection, but I rarely use it. Digital is just so convenient now, and you can stream, cast or play completely uncompressed. Still, it's nice to have when I feel like it. And you do have a following, so it's another topic of conversation and a nice visual in the backdrop. I run about 5-6 setups in my shop that incorporate turntables, and sometimes, when done just right, a demo will give people the chills or even bring about strong emotional responses. There's just something about analog sound mixed with nostalgia which brings that out in people.
Forgot your second question: I've had good luck with the popular Carbon Debut from Pro-Ject at or around $399. Their entry tables have unfortunately given me reliability issues, so I couldn't recommend them. Maybe others have had better luck with them or another brand at a lower price point. You can also pick up a great vintage table if you are lucky to find an example in good working order. Head over to audiogon and see what's floating around.
That's where I'm at, I want to start with a decent player, not cheap, but not crazy. If it sticks, it sticks. If not, I haven't invested thousands for more expensive ways to collect dust. I've heard some good things about Pro-Ject, but good to know about the entry level stuff. Great feedback!
I like you vids I have a project debut carbon dc and to me it sound great I upgrade the platter to the acrylic and improves the sound too I seen some people having issues with the turntable but not me.
cheers
I feel Auralex's Baby Gramma/Sub Dude series is a better buy then just getting 4 rubber feet. I have them on my subs. Is the bass better? Maybe, maybe not, depends where and what your sub is sitting on. The biggest difference I noticed was the lower amount of bass leaking from my bedroom. It will help a bit with rattling but if there is a lot of bass energy/high SPL, stuff will still rattle.
Does the Sub Dude allow the sub to wiggle like that? I haven't tried one yet. I don't think it's fair to just call these rubber feet. They have a specific compound and intent, and they do their job well. You could say you drive around on rubber balloons, but it seems to diminish the thought that went into the tires, even if it's a true statement.
How much it helps will depend on how "impressionable" your sub-floor is, I agree. If I stomp on my floor, it's going to make a big sound because it's wood. If I stomp on a concrete floor, you don't hear much in comparison.
With the Sub Dude it raises the sub much higher as you still use the subs included feet. That should help a bit more with reflections from the floor. Also for down-firing subs it's a bit more useful as it provides carpeted MDF to fire off of. Neither product will probably sound much different, I would just pay for a platform versus paying for feet. Also the Sub Dude can be used with any sub. Hell people use it for turntables, guitar amps, anything.
Hi is this good for tower speakers.
“The SVS SoundPath Subwoofer Isolation System works with nearly every subwoofer brand and model to improve bass performance while reducing floor and wall vibrations, noise artifacts and complaints from neighbors or roommates”, SVS quote. If so you would think the isolation system would be included with all SVS subwoofers post development❓💰❓
Some people might want to use a different solution for isolation. That said, a few models come with it, like the PC-2000's.
Subwoofer 101,true, the PC 2000 is a down fire sub, without the extra height there wouldn’t be much down fire space? If someone chooses to opt for different solution, great but wouldn’t you think SVS would want to provide their subs, in their own words, with the optimal “improvements”. The customers always has a choice but at least he knows that SVS provided the best subwoofer that included their best technology? Even if SVS added 50 bucks, they can’t be accused of not putting out SVS’s best product. I side with what I am, the customer. I do not feel I am being critical, I feel like I am attempting to encourage SVS to put out their best which is a win win. As it stands now, one may be lead to believe the separate purchase “choice” is revenue related which is fine but don’t tell me I am receiving the best SVS has to offer. What would be wrong with SVS including the current spikes and the iso system, give the customer a couple of choices you speak of. I really enjoy your videos and part of the reason is that you enjoy making them and your integrity.
I ordered two sets from svs via your link, love the content. Curious - do those come stock on pb16 ultra?
I really appreciate that! The isolation doesn't come stock on the box subs, but they do come on the PC-2000 and PC-4000 cylinder subs.
Make sure you order the box of six for the pd16. I own the sb16 and 4 is all that is needed. Those soundpath really work well for me. I have wood floors.
I actually have the Auralex platform now under my Martin Logan sub. I got it for less than $40 on eBay. I'm not sure that it really makes any difference… not without running any tests.
facebook.com/subwoofer101/posts/1655931894707758
Hi sir, would you recommend pb 1000 VS an sb 2000? Living room is connected to the dining room. Also I can't really play too loud as I am in the 2nd floor. And I can't have the pb 2000 it's just too big
PB1000 is pretty powerful given it's size and price. Unless you want massive bass or have a huge room, it's likely more than powerful enough for your use case especially since you can't it very loud anyways.
I'm sorry I missed this. Yes, dual PB-1000's would be my pick. PLENTY of output for you, and you can alter the gain to make it more dynamic, or less dynamic for your neighbors.
I bought the sb 1000 and returned it for the pb and I like it more.
And even in modest volume I am very happy (though my kef q150 is pretty decent in bass). Should keep me happy for a while. Thanks
Just purchased 2 for the SVS and valodyne. Will do tests and review. I also do the vinyl resales in the milwaukee Chicago area for the 3 big retailers in the area for acquiring used vinyl and new for under $30 for an 180 gram audiophile LP pressing. I also love to compare the same musicians track on vinyl and then cd then to digital to analog converter at 44 to 48khz with a high bit 32 sabre dac, dragonfly or specifically the RIAA amplifiers using vacuum tubes. using the 12au7 tubes made in Japan... it brings the preamplifier capabilities to new levels or can reduce your 60 hz hum or grounding issues. I find that the sound from my cheap audiotechnica at lp60 uses an automatic moving coil turntable with either a phono output as well as a line level output for straight RCA analog connections to preamplifier or solid state amp or even vacuum tube amplifier.
Right on. Overall, what sounds better to you, Vinyl or digital?
Subwoofer 101 certainly digital sounds better than vinyl although that is a result of not properly matching phono equipment. If you take the same track on each vinyl and digital, you could with more expensive equipment make the vinyl sound much better. I have to admit there are properties of digital that just seem to sound better with less equipment. As opposed to using a phono preamp and a stereo amplifier. My opinion is vinyl takes on a hands on approach with all the tweaks and eqs such as pitch 60hz and 50hz anti skating and matching cartridge to tonearm... can get complicated, although it is the act of placing the stylus where you prefer it, selecting a track based on seeing the record spinning, instead of relying on a screen.
have you reviewd Ologe acoustic Twenty? if not, you should.
I wanna see a video about that sub.
With a 28 hertz bottom end, it doesn't go deep enough for me. 80 watts seems a little under-powered too. Cool looking design though, and I like the fact that it has on-board EQ's.
Would this fit a Polk HTS12 ?
anyone know how many feet are on the pc13ultra?
Do you think this will help or improve performance on a tile floor?
I have no idea, another viewer said no, and I don't have a concrete floor. I assume the tile is over concrete, or is it over a wood sub floor? With a wood subfloor, I think it would help. If it didn't help, you could always return them, so I guess you could try it to see.
I have a boston subwoofer CSSUB10 11, down firing, oriented to the floor, but I do not hear many basses, what if I have is vibrations in floor windows and furniture, this product will solve this? And if it is better to put a carpet on it? Or directly on the clean floor
I think sub-floor matters more, but haven't tried specifically on carpet. It should help regardless.
Will these work on carpet? I live in a town house, and I'm trying to keep sub vibrations from going through the walls, my neighbors go nuts when I watch movies or play games like call of duty or battlefield with tons of explosions going off.
It is great on carpet! Just keep in mind that you could get a slight bump in output as a result, something I definitely didn't expect. It can help reduce rattles, but every situation is unique.
I think it's a good idea, just keep in mind that you might have to account for potential increase in output and reduce the gain accordingly. I only saw .4-.8 dB increase in output, so not massive, but it was unexpected.
@@Subwoofer101 funny, I heard the opposite from sound a vision's review of these feet they said they had to turn their subs up. I when ahead and ordered 2 sets of them for my Klipsch subs, hope they work out for me, I basically have to turn my subs off currently.
Yeah, it depends on the subfloor and a few other factors. On a concrete subfloor, you could lose some output. My floor is so bad that I saw a slight increase.
You can also check out my "apartment tips" video, one of the tips is to alter the gain structure, essentially the opposite of the "Gain Hack".
Generally you want to increase dynamics, but that's worse for shared wall situations.
@@Subwoofer101 thanks I'll take a look, Shane from spare change lives in an apartment and has people above and below him and used acoustic absorption treatments on his walls, but my room is a shared room with the kitchen and dining room, and my girlfriend won't put up with me making our downstairs sound like an anechoic chamber or look like one 😂
I totally get that! The trick is to make the treatments look like art. Not that I've done it, but that's the way to go about it for mixed use rooms.
have them on both my sb2000 in an apartment. In Europe don't come cheap but are amazing products. no rattles anywhere, period!
+Cristian Tolbaru Rattles will drive you crazy quickly.
Since the subwoofer moves around a lot, wouldn’t this cancel out a lot of the bass by moving the opposite direction of the woofer? I’m on the fence about this product for my klipsch sw-115. I have wood floors with an unfinished basement below. The sw115 is really boomy and can shake my entire house if I want to push it. But I feel like I need tighter bass. Do you think these would help me?
Svs claims that the feet are tuned in such a way that the frequency response is the same as without and nothing is cancelled out, despite the wobble. Firmer of softer rubber could change the sound significantly
I was just wondering how useful do you think something like this would be in a down firing subwoofer. Since a vast amount of the energy in a down firing is going into the floor from the woofer would these (or in my case super spikes) be of any use in reducing rattles?
In answer to your question I am not running vinyl. Although I like the idea of it and I agree their is something very "comforting" about the idea of putting on a record. My very first music device was a second hand record player and I loved it. Still have 15 or so records from that time collecting dust now in the attic. Sadly I barely have enough money to buy the music I want in digital format let alone spend extra on a vinyl copy so it's not something I am considering at the moment or in the near future.
Edit: Oh, it looks lime I can get the SVS isolation feet from Amazon.co.uk. I'll have to see if my sub is compatible.
The energy you're trying to isolate is the physical energy of the sub, not the sound energy. So orientation "shouldn't" matter too much. If you have a wood floor, or carpeted with wood sub floor, I think those situations offer the greatest benefit. If you have concrete, some have said they didn't notice much difference, but I still don't know myself. The rattles that were resolved in my room were from physical energy of the box that was transferring into the floor, not the sound energy.
I still have other rattles far away from the subs that haven't changed, and that's from the sound energy. The isolation does not change that. I would also suspect that the weight of the moving mass of the driver vs the weight of the entire sub would make a difference as to how much of an effect you get out of it.
As for vinyl, I have considered the extra involvement and cost, and it's certainly more time consuming and expensive. Buying albums is not cheap. The sound is what I'm curious about. What are the differences, is there more of a "feeling" from it? The intangible stuff. I'm curious about it, and far from set on it. Mostly, I just want to hear vinyl on a good setup at my leisure, not in some store taking up someone's time. Good feedback, thanks!
Ok, thanks for the reply.
I'll definitely add these to my wishlist as reducing the number of rattles would be nice. There is just one bass frequency where something in my shelving unit goes bonkers and rattles very loudly - sort of distracts from the movie. Be nice to eliminate that or reduce if possible.
Another great video as usual. I have this system that I bought at the same time as I purchased my first SVS product, the PB-1000 so I have no idea what it sounded like without it. All I know is the PB-1000 sounds incredible. I live in a wall to wall carpeted condo and I wonder if it helps with the neighbors but I have no way of knowing.
Thanks for the feedback. I never heard the PB-1000's with the isolation, wish I had.
Hugely into vinyl. SVS in my home theater. REL in my audio system.
which gives cleaner and louder low bass? (10hz-20hz) rel or svs?
Pioneer just made a technics recreation turntable really want two myself
I used a hack where you take muffin tins, racket balls, insert the balls in the muffin pan , put a neoprene or rubber mat under the muffin pan , place the subwoofer on the racket balls, for pb 2000 you will need a 12 muffin pan, for the sb2000 a 9 muffin pan, this sounds funny but it works better then svs's overpriced option. 20 dollars for enough trays for 8 subwoofers, you cant see them either, unless you lay on the ground
are these good for carpeted floors as well?
I don't see why not.
Yes good on carpet.
50.00 for some subwoofer feet is ridiculous.
If they were basic cabinet feet, you would be right. But they aren't. Those feet are hard and do not isolate. These are more like motor mounts, dampening the vibration.
If you have a noisy floor, like my wood floor, they are worth it.
They should just include it instead of paying for feet on subs
Extra business
If they were included with every sub that would raise the price. And Not everyone needs them.
Myself and others value your tips generally, but I've never heard you mention a top-10 or top-5 budget subwoofer list. And while I do agree that SVS and the other marquis brands do make great aspirational subs, only a small fraction of your viewers can afford them, so the others would appreciate options in the $200-300 budget, which is where the average person lies. So let's see you go out of your pocket and showcase the regular Joe's subwoofers along with your great tips and tricks. Afterall you are 'subwoofer 101'.
It's been 3 years can you afford them yet
@@carlossantiago6642 i got two Bic America Acoustech PL-200ii and I'm loving them
I know you buy almost all your stuff new but I would never recommend that anyone gets into vinyl with a new turntable. The prices of new turntables are just far too much when compared to the used market. I buy almost all of my equipment used and I have bought several turntables and have had very good luck.
One turntable was an NAD 5080 which I bought for $10 from Goodwill. I also bought a phono preamp at the same time for $3. I eventually gifted this to my brother for Christmas, but for $13 this is an excellent sounding turntable.
Another turntable I have is a Kenwood KD-3100. I paid $25 for this and then paid $70 for a new Shure M97xe cartridge. I have directly compared this to the Project Debut Carbon ($400) and my Kenwood performs much better. I have one record in particular which is very demanding to playback. The Project just kept getting to one part and skipping over and over on this perfectly new record. The Project was properly setup, it just couldn't handle this test.
If you have time, you should check places like Goodwill and Habitat for Humanity for deals. If you don't like putting in that much effort, then I would check Craigslist for a good used Technics.
I love listening to records, but honestly I only think vinyl is worth it if you buy mostly used records for
Good feedback, I'm a little worried about having a bad experience and relaying it to my audience, but it may be worth doing after a good baseline, I don't doubt what you're saying. I'm not against used audio, but I don't want to inadvertently disparage an entire audio segment over a worn stylus or something I don't yet understand. If I get a decent quality turntable and think it stinks, that would be more reliable. I don't expect it to stink, or I wouldn't be considering it, but I appreciate your opinion.
I'm a vinyl collector. It's TOTALLY worth it. The sound speaks for itself. Digital output distorts, while analog doesn't. I myself have a Teac TN=300 in a gloss white finish. Set me back about $350 but it's everything I was looking. For and more. The stock isolation feet are amazing and can handle my. Audioengine A8 subwoofer without knocking the stylus around. Vinyl is the best way to enjoy music.
Haha I have quite a bit of dust on my PB-2000 as well.
=)
try Disney world of wow bluray vibration test very good for showing u what vibrates. I use 8 attacam isolation gel pads just on my dali vocal then on my back 4 speakers dali zensor 3 I have on custom design fs104 stands but I sit each speaker on 4 attacam isolation gel pads each. in each stand I have 7.5 kg of attacam attabites but the stands are on spikes on shoes with blutack underneath to stop them moving and absorb vibration, my dali zensor 7 are spiked on shoes and blutack. for my dali ef12 sub I have sitting on 12 visual pads. all helps your enjoyment of movies, everthing on my stand is isolated.
The Attacama look to be a UK only item, bummer. The Disney Blu Ray is $60-90 on Amazon right now, ouch. I'll keep an eye out for it though, good feedback!
Subwoofer 101 np I had to get the region 1 version but wort it. another good one for calibrating your tv is Spears & Munsil High Definition Benchmark, 2nd Edition but for calabrating tv to get most perfect And accurate picture.that your tv is capable of producing better than paying someone £250 to calibrate your tv. lol I'm still trying to finish my home cinema room/living room, I'll send you pictures of what it looks like. if you have book shelf speakers custom design do amazing sounding stands. but don't know if you can get them in usa
Subwoofer 101 can I give you another tip on my denon x4200 I've turned display to off so when u watching a movie u don't see the display front. but when you hit volume it brings it up for couple sec. looks much better shame you can't do same thing on the denon 3313ud 😈
Subwoofer 101 just was watching your video again. could I give you couple tips, I've been into home cinema from when DVD started and my first player was Sony 735. now I'm up to denon 3313ud. I have a 7.1 set up the your speaker wires need to be a bit more well maintained, i.e. power wire and speaker wires crossing each other. I use QED
genesis silver spiral on fronts and center and QED silver anniversary XT on my back 4 channels. I still try and keep each speaker and power cable apart from each other. I also use Monster Cable GreenPower MP HDP 850G 8-Outlets Surge Suppressor for clean and controlled power to my equipment to protect it look it up you should get it. I use two, one if for bluray player amp console. no set top box cause more wires and interferance lol and the second one I use for my subwoofer only but from a different power outlet
Thanks
I still play My albums/Cassettes, slowly ripping them server.
What do you like better, digital or vinyl?
Sorry I cannot pick one, I have albums over 50 years old and I love them. Digital should be quit and not harsh. A quit new album is so good to hear, But I have no problem with noise on them.
I bet nostalgia is a huge part of it. Good feedback!
Subwoofer 101 look up custom design on there web site you'll find isolation stands for vinyl players and home cinema systems there
LOL, raising your sub a few inches magically changed your FR?
1/4 wavelength @ 20hz is 56.5 ft.... How does raising the sub up a few inches change the amplitude enough to effect this...?
I'd like to see REW graphs of before and after.
+Cody Y It's not about just raising the sub off of the ground. It's about limiting the transfer of energy into the floor. Did you watch the video?
Sounds like placebo and snake oil. "Decoupling" the subwoofer from the floor will not eliminate that. I'm not sure what's better, AudioQuest cables or these. How about Acoustically induced vibrations at the high SPL?
Without measurements to back up any of this, it's a matter of personal opinion. I didn't see a single graph of before and after either.
You can also buy cheaper feet for close to these for like $1 each from Parts express.
All I smell, feel and hear is snake oil dripping.
My take is that the feet are meant to keep the energy that the driver is making from vibrating the floor, so you have a lower noise floor (less things in the room rattling) and so more of the energy that is normally transferred to the floor stays in the driver/cabinet which should result in more spl at certain low frequencies and even result in a "tighter" sound.
The effect is probably pretty subtle, so seeing it on graphs along with some objective a-b blind testing would be nice.
***** The floor will vibrate regardless if the sub is on rubber feet. That's how sound waves work.
"The effect is probably pretty subtle"
Why isn't every other subwoofer manufacture/ID company adding these with all their subs? Why doesn't SVS add them to all their subs and not just their cylinders? $$$$.
"Tight" sound. What is that?
I wondered why they weren't standard on all svs subs too. Don't know why they aren't, I don't work at svs.
Also, I was talking about the energy of the moving parts inside the sub. Most of that energy is turned into sound and some escapes through whatever the sub is physically touching, no?
Just like the top of a tightly wound drum, a speaker can sound "tighter" or "punchier". Well, at least based on what I've heard. Totally a subjective opinion though.
Poor Angel
We can't wait to get that cone off.
Subwoofer 101 I live in apartment and I use styrofoam and does the job I got a velodyne DD 18 the soft black styrofoam does a good job on the Sunfire subwoofer
talk less and shoe more hands on demo plz
Yess ,im so bored too😂
Experienced audiophiles know that the better coupled the subwoofer is to a concrete floor or walls, the tighter and better the bass will be. What this isolation system does is attenuate the bass from the subwoofer by allowing it to "float" above the floor, partially cancelling the cone's movement and turning it to heat. Some people have reported a loss of up to 2 dB in bass level, confirming the above. Losing 2 dB is equivalent to losing 37% of bass power! So yes, you are transmitting less vibration to your walls and floor, but you are also losing bass power. That is a deal-breaker in my book.
6:03 "You can actually, really see it moving!"
Question: Since when is a subwoofer cabinet movement modulated by the incoming signal has been a good thing?
Answer: Never has. Never will.
Couple of things. If you have a concrete floor, you likely won't see any benefit. People with concrete floors may believe, understandably so based on their own experiences, that there is no benefit to isolation. I discovered this after I made the video.
If you have a very active floor like mine, which is fairly loud when you stomp on it, then you should notice a positive difference. I did not take concrete floors into account when I did this video. My experience was that it was a very positive upgrade in every way, but now I understand that it may not be good for everyone.
I also understand the controversy a little better, once having shared your beliefs. I tried a few other forms of isolation, mostly foam pads of varying thickness and density, and didn't notice anything at all. I expected the bass to be quieter too, but that wasn't the case with these.
I've also had a lot of "experienced audiophiles" tell me that dual subs are purely a marketing ploy, that deep subs "can't possibly" sound good with music, or good at all in some cases, and a host of other things that I completely disagree with. Having experience does not mean you can't be mistaken or otherwise be missing something, myself included.
Rather than lose db as you suggest, I gained between .4 and .8 db just by adding the feet. I measured a bass heavy song, "Antidote" several times with feet on and feet off, no other changes. Reliably, output was higher with isolation. The more inert the floor is (like concrete or an extremely tight wood subfloor), the less likely you are to see a gain. When I first installed them, I found that I could run the AVR subwoofer trim about .5 to a full db lower than without. Obviously, I found this impressive, and would like to think that anyone would.
I'm currently running without isolation, (the PB 16 Ultra requires 2 more feet per sub) and around the subs there are absolutely more rattles now, which as you can imagine takes away from the experience. Fewer rattles and more output, it really seemed like a slam dunk to me.
Across the room, there is no noticeable difference. It has no effect on the traveling sound waves. It seems to have an effect on the physical energy being transferred into an active floor. If you've ever seen a dancing subwoofer (I've seen an SB-2000 do it under 20 hertz), then you've seen the physical energy that it isolates. The argument that isolation might stop sound waves would be bogus. These are more like modern automotive motor mounts, versus the rock hard motor mounts that left you feeling the engine in older cars. It has no effect on the exhaust note, but cars sure rattle less these days.
Here are the measurements I took. It may not be conventional, but it's demonstrative of the difference that I heard.
facebook.com/subwoofer101/posts/1655931894707758
Never have I claimed to know it all, or even to be the foremost expert. I'm a layperson, and I share my learning experiences as I go. I make mistakes and I own them. Take a look at my "No Atmos" video if there is any doubt, most self proclaimed "audiophiles" would NEVER admit to a tragic mistake like that, much less publish it. I don't take myself too seriously, and by publishing my mistakes it helps others avoid them.
So to answer your question, as far as the sub moving around on isolation, in my environment, yes, it is absolutely a very good thing. You've heard the expression "never say never", right?
Could it actually take some response away on an inert (concrete) floor? I honestly have no idea, but I have no trouble conceding that it's possible. I don't think this video was a mistake or wrong, it was my honest experience. A little incomplete? Yes, but the product works for my situation, and I'm confident that my measurements are repeatable on a floor as active as mine.
Hopefully this will change the conversation from "cool aide drinking fools" vs "dinosaur doubters" to a more friendly and productive discussion of "active floors" vs "inert floors". That has been the source of the whole controversy, as far as I can tell.
Dear Subwoofer 101, you say that the product might not be effective for concrete floors. So, if my sub is still rattling what would be the cause of that? Would isolators have any impact on a sub rattling if it is on concrete?
I've been toying with the idea of getting them, but I have two subs on terracotta tiles sitting on concrete. They never move. I keep thinking that if I added the feet, it would take away from some of the output.
I loved your early vids. But since you sold out to SVS by becoming their affiliate, you labor to find good things to say about overpriced scammy garbage like these things, but not all of us are fools. Is it worth it to sell your soul for a few thousand bucks worth of goods from SVS?
I pushed for the affiliate program, something that didn't exist at SVS until I asked for it, and I put a lot of work into making it happen, so for you to call me a "sell out", as one might imagine, is EXTRA irritating.
It took well over a year to make this happen, and we're still ironing things out. I could have signed up as a Velodyne affiliate in 5 minutes, with better terms and far better brand recognition. Snap of the finger, super easy. In terms of selling out, I could get a lot more money going with any number of common brands. Instead, I spent over a year to get the SVS affiliate program going.
Why? They make great subwoofers, some of the best in the world. They were on my "Best Subwoofers" list well before I ever spoke with them, so it's not like I'm Forrest Gump selling ping pong paddles that I don't use.
I absolutely stand by this review based solely on the merits of the performance that I experienced. I take issue with the suggestion that I would fabricate an opinion AT ALL, much less that I would choose to do so on such a low priced item. If I was going to sell out, why not a Velodyne DD18+ for $5,700? Better affiliate terms and brand recognition. Not to pick on Velodyne, but if I was just in it for the money, I could have made some better decisions financially.
The really funny thing about the Subwoofer Isolation System is that it actually works, especially on wood sub-floors. The measurements I took easily back up what I heard. facebook.com/subwoofer101/posts/1655931894707758
Not only could you see in the video that the subwoofer clearly moves a lot more than it would with regular feet or no feet at all, but on a wood sub-floor the difference in sound was pretty clear to me. You may not get as much of a benefit on concrete subfloors, but I think they are a worthwhile upgrade with a floor like mine.
Just to be clear, SVS has not "comped" me ANY equipment, it's all on loan and not mine to keep. It all goes back unless I decide to purchase something. Being an affiliate does not mean I'm required to say nice things about their products. What it does allow me to do is monetize products that I think are good, and would spend my own money on.
As you know well, UA-cam doesn't pay well until you're huge. I still can't justify my efforts with the few paychecks I receive from Adsense, Amazon, SVS etc.., it's almost a volunteer thing at this point, but the channel is growing and I like the subject matter.
As I understand it, SVS sells more sealed subwoofers than ported. If I was in it just for the money, the smart money would have me pitching those, but I prefer ported subs. See my "SB-2000" video or "ported vs sealed" if there is any doubt. Great subs for sure, but I prefer ported. You can see that on "The List", there is not a sealed sub to be found. No Velodyne, Klipsch, or Bose either. Maybe not the most lucrative decision on my part, but it's genuine. www.subwoofer101.com/best-subwoofers/
I could recommend a lot of subwoofers through Amazon. I could make a LOT more by pointing to well known, top selling brands. The affiliate program was just to give me better "odds" with SVS products than I previously had with Amazon. I was pointing traffic to SVS products on Amazon long before I ever had any communication with them.
I will say that, had it not been for SVS allowing me to demo their products, I would easily have less than 50% of the content I have now, and probably less than 200 subscribers. Their support (letting me tinker with their equipment and talking with their experts) has had a major impact on the quality and quantity of content I've produced. I never would have known just how important dual subs are had they not sent out that first set of PB-1000's. Now I view duals as a priority for quality bass.
I'm really proud of the affiliation, it's an accomplishment for such a small channel like mine.
I may have put my heart in this, but my soul was never for sale.
I take back my words/nasty accusation and admit I was wrong, but I still think these things are total scams. You could accomplish the same thing with pieces of rubber from AC Moore e.g.
I appreciate that. Keep in mind, I wouldn't bother making a video if I didn't think these were a good product, and the measurements backed up what I was hearing. Yes, you can build your own solution, and you may or may not accomplish the goal of this product. I've seem similar looking feet, but they were hard and do absolutely nothing to actually decouple the sub from the floor. This design is deceptively simple.
In terms of pricing, they are on par with other isolation systems, like this option: amzn.to/2oCk6Ef
I think these have a nice stock appearance and don't draw attention to themselves. Even people on concrete floors will use them on sealed subs like SB-2000's as they can "walk" during heavy deep passages. For people like me with wood subfloors, these provide a real, rather elegant solution, and the louder the floor is when you stomp on it with your foot, the more of a benefit you will likely realize. Right now I don't have them installed (the PB-16 Ultra has 6 feet instead of 4, so I'm waiting for another set), and I can definitely tell. The floor is a lot more active without the isolation, and not in a good way in my opinion.
For what it's worth, in all of my experience with SVS, they don't seem to be the kind of company to leverage their name on an ineffective product for the sake of a buck. Their customer base, many being hardened audio consumers painfully aware of the vast snake oil problem, wouldn't put up with it.
With this product come issues. A wood floor person will say it's excellent, where a concrete floor person will not notice as drastic of a difference, if any at all. You can imagine the ensuing arguments and proclamations that result when people have totally different experiences with the exact same product. Intelligence starts getting insulted.
I'm not trying to convince you to go buy a set, for whatever reason you are turned off by them, and that's fine. But to call them a scam is simply not true. They work as designed, and are clearly competitively priced.
it's a good product!
You talk to much , cut your talking down.
Absolutely, too much rambling. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate you reviewing this product, but it certainly didnt need to be 15 mins. Especially when the video was mainly a static camera without an actual demo (yes I understand this is UA-cam and perhaps not the best place for sound demos)
15 min of staring at a subwoofer listening to bs
Too much gabbing no help whatsoever
I get a lot of people thanking me for my "gabbing". Usually, people find my channel very useful for improving their sound in their home.
It's not for everyone though. Some people demand to hear what a 1500 watt subwoofer sounds like through their laptop speakers, which is 100% impossible.
You might not appreciate the value my channel provides, but others do. I'm sorry it didn't work out for you.
have you reviewd Ologe acoustic Twenty? if not, you should.
I wanna see a video about that sub.