It was the first I noticed when I got my Twinpig. I could see and feel it. And the first time on the Mountain I could hear it too when going sideways and it rides so much better than my Burton Descendant without any structure.
Great explanation! I'm wondering if there are any specific things to keep in mind when waxing a snowboard that has a structured base. How do you ensure you've removed all the wax from all the low spots of is it even necessary??
Our work holds yearly alpine races for us to compete. We got the swix guy to sprouk some race waxes. Race waxing is another world. But he said correct structure for the conditions is worth 5 points out of 200, and that all his wax products were worth 2.5 points. And yea that's coming from the guy trying to sell me stuff.
Just brought my board (same one in this video) back from the shop. They decided to destroy the beautiful structure and put in a linear one, so you could say I am also an angry snowboarder
Structure works. It's nice to have. Most shops here do a crap job with stone grinds especially if the board has a spoon shaped nose and tail. I figure with how bad the work often is that you've got a 50-50 chance of it improving things.
Hi Angry, I got a 23/24 Ultrafear camber to replace my 21/22 DOA for park riding at BigSnow, but it is very slow. The depth and lines of the structure are noticeably less on my Ultrafear compare to DOA(quantum base vs super base?) Can I ask a shop to remove/restructure the base of my Ultrafear, what type of structure would you recommend; linear, cross, or something else? TIA
is there a video about different types and what ones are beneficial for what type of conditions.. i have a fine stone ground in mine, i don't know what that means though
Structure is easy to put on a board that is flat, but a great many companies don’t Stone grind because their boards aren’t totally flat. K2 & Ride have great medium structure. Asking a tech (that’s me) to add structure can be tough but you can put it on any board. It’ll displace more water & make that zipping sound when you ride.
I like the idea of the zipping sound that seems fun. I ride Eastern ice and man-made snow mostly and when it gets warm, my libtech TNT base is stickier than I would like. Do you think this would work for me? Previously I rode the waxed Sintered and base. Waxing the TNT base doesn't seem to do much or last more than a day or two
Getting a base grind on my Marhar Lumberjack soon and I am curious if that could cause any issues on the base with the lifted edges / convex shape it has. Thoughts?
Fifteen years ago I was etching a razor blade from tip to tail every cm across the base of my boards worked like a charm in the Pacific Northwest slush that we enjoyed more often then not
@@galehess6676 I'd take it in to a shop if its a board you like. If its an old peice of crap you want to experiment with I'd say try taking a razor to it.
@@homealone5087 Right. I took it in last night. Biggest shop on the East Coast (is what it is lol), they have a Montana machine which grinds and removes all the fuzzies and does cross hatch (or linear). So, I am pretty pumped. Supplied my Hot Sauce wax of choice. $72 and done in $72 hours, full tune grind n edges. Buckman's in PA, 7 locations, can drop at any and spec where to pick it up. I'll put up a video showing the results on Friday.
You can make a jig. Clamp a razor between 2 pieces of wood so you can set a constant depth. Set a piece on wood in the length of your snowboard. Wove it along, move wood and repeat
Thanks for the explanation! How do you make sure the wax is removed from the structure after waxing it? And scraping would not damage the structure? My party platter has structure and I'm afraid I will damage it if I scrape it with an acrylic scraper. (I know you don't wax, but you probably know the process)
If you're aggressive with a metal scraper sure it would damage it. Then again why are you even waxing it's pointless, just maintain the structure. But if you're going to wax get a good set of brushes similar to this: amzn.to/2PCvuwu
I have a sintered structure base and I’m thinking the same thing, when time comes to waxing the base, what would be your recommended process? Cheers in advance
@@AngrySnowboarder Where did your anti-wax mindset come from? It seems pretty relevant when you are forced to traverse flat terrain and it's definitely saved me from bootpacking out of a flat pow zone plenty of times. P.S., I think people would benefit from you doing a more elaborate video on what structure will help in wet spring snow vs dry powder.
Anything to look out for when getting base done on a board with a 3 degree bevel? Can any tune guy take care of it or should someone really specific only do it?
Hello! Great video! Are there any suggestions or tips on how to wax better structured boards at home? I wax my own boards, but I have never waxed a structural board! I bought a Capita DOA with a structure and now I'm afraid to damage it!
@@AngrySnowboarderwhy not? if i use a brush? also what if i ptex some holes, do i need to brush it so it fill follow the orginal structure? or i am overthinking it?
Avran, what is a reasonable price to have this done? I went to a shop yesterday and this concept was unheard of to the tech. I spoke to. Then I was talking with my friend about it, and we likened this whole concept to laces on footballs, divots in golf balls, and the wobble of spherical bullets from a musket and so on and now it makes perfect sense. I need to try out your no wax theory too because if getting structure put in and not waxing is the thing to do then I gotta do that.
Just got structure in my board from your recommendation. Is it supposed to run from tip to tail? My shop did it just in the middle and wonder if its wrong
@@AngrySnowboarder the structure only runs between the contact points. the tip and tail hasnt been done, is that normal? basically what I'm asking is if the entire base should be structured
So if the board has that structure made on the base, does it need waxing? I haven't encountered with this so far, and my GF's Volkl Savvy 2017, and its base is making that sound. Even when I wax it and scrape it, I can still hear it and its not perfectly smooth and flat
Great for warm snow, but I find all the structure I've ever had in a base is terribly slow in cold or man-made snow, especially when your board is sliding sideways. Makes every non-carved turn feel terrible. Minimal structure for me unless it's spring riding!
Would a wet belt sander be able to add structure to a base? Recently took my board to a shop for a stone grind. Guys at the shop said they do a belt grind with wet sand paper on boards and it would give the same result. Got my board back and there was no structure pattern whatsoever, just a smooth base. So in the end did I get screwed over?
Ok Angry, do you think this would help my EJack knife glide better over wet and manmade Snow? I can go without wax if it works. I only wax to make it faster and if I don't need it with structure I won't bother
@@olecranonrebellion9976 I’m a ski/snowboard technician and you’re wrong. 9 days ago you commented on an angry snowboarder video titled “5 reasons you’re not progressing”. You said yourself you’re a beginner. You need years of research and experience snowboarding before you can give snowboard related advice/knowledge to anyone. Wax always
I put a combination of race wax and normal wax on my board, thinking I'd be super fast. 🙈. I went slower. So I took it to a shop on the mountain to get it professionally done, for the conditions. But the conditions went to below -10 the next day 🙄, so I ended even slower and even came to an abrupt dead stop in places. In the end, I had a full service including having structure put into the board. It was fast for a day or so, mostly because the edges were ninja sharp. I've never had this problem with any other board.
So I have a bataleon goliath, which came with a structured base. I took it to a snowboard shop to get it waxed and I got it back with no structure.... Is that normal or was it a crap shop? Are you supposed to get your board restructured every so often?
@@AngrySnowboarder I understand how wax works; maybe I wasn't clear enough in my question unless you're saying the wax filled in the structure. Every other time I've waxed, you could still feel the structure with your nail. Now it's as smooth as a baby's butt. I'm wondering if they belt-sanded the base to tune it and ground down the structure before they waxed it.
Maybe im doing something wrong but i did never experience a base loosing structure that much, you would recognize. Further information given: i have about 80-100 days per season and get myself one new board (Capita indoor survival) in the beginning of every season or at least as soon as it is available. How does structure get out of the base?
@@klnrtrzn4449 Structure removes some base. Its a process that takes time and machine, which is why top tier boards have it from factory. Some boards at just ran over a flat belt. This is much faster.
Sports Basement destroyed my Lib Tech E-Jack Knife. I purchased a full tune/grind, and DPS Phantom installed. Out the door $254. My board is 30%+ slower and with race was 35%+ slower. GPSed speed runs. My $150 amazon park noodle POS is faster now. That board could not touch my Lib Tech before I had the work done. Any ideas WTF happend? Only 5 days and 25 hours physically snowboarding down a run/line.
I don't know why you got a grind if you put DPS on it as that is an epoxy like chemical that hardens to the base. Stone grind seems excessive since it was covered over. My guess is they didn't put it on right but I have 0 experience doing so take that with a grain of salt.
So I have a premium stone ground base I get a small core shot on 2nd day of use. Make mistake of thinking local shop could do a better job than I could at home.. Not only do they do a shitty p tex repair they burn the crap out of the base with some old or dry belt sander. A better shop cant get the stone grind pattern across the board blaming the hack shop.. What is the best way to undo burnt base damage?
I think it actually makes them real faster on the turns and it's not a problem. I was able to get rid of the base burn on the edges with super sharp steel scraper light touch and lots of patients it's actually better than before now.
@@AngrySnowboarder yea I didn’t agree with the tech that I talked to while I was there. I’ll just have to search for a shop around me that is up to the task. I live in Delaware. I’m going to try Danzeisen & Quigley next, then Buckmans in PA. I’ve been to shops in Delaware and Maryland so far.
A video where you talk all day about different patterns actually sounds like an excellent idea.
Nice. I think this is literally the thing most people are clueless on.
It was the first I noticed when I got my Twinpig. I could see and feel it. And the first time on the Mountain I could hear it too when going sideways and it rides so much better than my Burton Descendant without any structure.
Great explanation! I'm wondering if there are any specific things to keep in mind when waxing a snowboard that has a structured base. How do you ensure you've removed all the wax from all the low spots of is it even necessary??
Thanks for another video with quality info!
Our work holds yearly alpine races for us to compete. We got the swix guy to sprouk some race waxes. Race waxing is another world. But he said correct structure for the conditions is worth 5 points out of 200, and that all his wax products were worth 2.5 points.
And yea that's coming from the guy trying to sell me stuff.
Just brought my board (same one in this video) back from the shop. They decided to destroy the beautiful structure and put in a linear one, so you could say I am also an angry snowboarder
Structure works. It's nice to have. Most shops here do a crap job with stone grinds especially if the board has a spoon shaped nose and tail. I figure with how bad the work often is that you've got a 50-50 chance of it improving things.
Just go mach 10 down the mountain into the dirt parking lot. Free stone grind and random structure pattern.
Can’t wait to tryout that super pig, thx for the info Avran xD
Just picked up a new Mercury, it's the first board I've ever had with it. We'll see how much difference it makes this season.
I got one last session and I will tell you that it is awesome and fast!
I have structured base in my new DOA. I thought something wrong with the board. Thanks for the explanation
I had a Salomon with structure base, I like the sound it makes
Awesome video. Love the series and please do more. And yes, talk about the different patterns of structure!
My Ride and Seek i believe came with structure. My korua pencil did not, but I put it in!
@@horacionochetto8454 hey how did u get t structure in afterwards? Probably will buy a korua for nxt season. Tried out t pencil+ and dart last season.
@@CMBBC I paid for it to get done at a shop.
Hi Angry, I got a 23/24 Ultrafear camber to replace my 21/22 DOA for park riding at BigSnow, but it is very slow. The depth and lines of the structure are noticeably less on my Ultrafear compare to DOA(quantum base vs super base?) Can I ask a shop to remove/restructure the base of my Ultrafear, what type of structure would you recommend; linear, cross, or something else? TIA
You can, ask them what they recommend.
Popped over here to bump this for those who don't know what you're ranting about in the new videos
I have a yes pick your line that has a fast base. Would you recommend I get structure added to it?
is there a video about different types and what ones are beneficial for what type of conditions.. i have a fine stone ground in mine, i don't know what that means though
And i always thought that drag i felt on the slushy days was a wax issue.
Structure is easy to put on a board that is flat, but a great many companies don’t Stone grind because their boards aren’t totally flat. K2 & Ride have great medium structure. Asking a tech (that’s me) to add structure can be tough but you can put it on any board. It’ll displace more water & make that zipping sound when you ride.
I like the idea of the zipping sound that seems fun. I ride Eastern ice and man-made snow mostly and when it gets warm, my libtech TNT base is stickier than I would like. Do you think this would work for me? Previously I rode the waxed Sintered and base. Waxing the TNT base doesn't seem to do much or last more than a day or two
Getting a base grind on my Marhar Lumberjack soon and I am curious if that could cause any issues on the base with the lifted edges / convex shape it has. Thoughts?
You'll be fine.
Yes my ride super pig glides on snow like nothing else love it
Any recommendations for a reputable tune shop that's along the front range, west of Denver that can put structure in my base?
Monocera in Dillon.
I'm still new but I got the hang of it, am I missing out if I don't have structure or is it only really for the gnarliest of riders?
No, it just makes things that much better when you're riding.
Fifteen years ago I was etching a razor blade from tip to tail every cm across the base of my boards worked like a charm in the Pacific Northwest slush that we enjoyed more often then not
Did you just freehand it?
@@homealone5087 exactly. so. how does one do this... .. .
@@galehess6676 I'd take it in to a shop if its a board you like. If its an old peice of crap you want to experiment with I'd say try taking a razor to it.
@@homealone5087 Right. I took it in last night. Biggest shop on the East Coast (is what it is lol), they have a Montana machine which grinds and removes all the fuzzies and does cross hatch (or linear). So, I am pretty pumped. Supplied my Hot Sauce wax of choice. $72 and done in $72 hours, full tune grind n edges. Buckman's in PA, 7 locations, can drop at any and spec where to pick it up. I'll put up a video showing the results on Friday.
You can make a jig.
Clamp a razor between 2 pieces of wood so you can set a constant depth. Set a piece on wood in the length of your snowboard. Wove it along, move wood and repeat
Thanks for the explanation! How do you make sure the wax is removed from the structure after waxing it? And scraping would not damage the structure? My party platter has structure and I'm afraid I will damage it if I scrape it with an acrylic scraper. (I know you don't wax, but you probably know the process)
If you're aggressive with a metal scraper sure it would damage it. Then again why are you even waxing it's pointless, just maintain the structure. But if you're going to wax get a good set of brushes similar to this: amzn.to/2PCvuwu
I have a sintered structure base and I’m thinking the same thing, when time comes to waxing the base, what would be your recommended process? Cheers in advance
Waxing, hahahaha!
@@AngrySnowboarder Where did your anti-wax mindset come from? It seems pretty relevant when you are forced to traverse flat terrain and it's definitely saved me from bootpacking out of a flat pow zone plenty of times.
P.S., I think people would benefit from you doing a more elaborate video on what structure will help in wet spring snow vs dry powder.
@@AngrySnowboarder Thanks, I really appreciate your time!
Anything to look out for when getting base done on a board with a 3 degree bevel? Can any tune guy take care of it or should someone really specific only do it?
Like the base has a 3 degree bevel or the base edge has a 3 degree bevel?
@Angry Snowboarder base edge bevel. To be specific it would be regarding the DC PLY.
If a shop doesn't know how to put a bevel on a boards edge you probably shouldn't be taking it there to be tuned.
Riding copper next weekend. What tune shop do you recommend in the area.
Monocera in Dillon, Gravitee in Copper.
@@AngrySnowboarder 🙏🏾
Hello! Great video! Are there any suggestions or tips on how to wax better structured boards at home? I wax my own boards, but I have never waxed a structural board! I bought a Capita DOA with a structure and now I'm afraid to damage it!
Waxing, HAHAHA. Don't bother.
@@AngrySnowboarder cant tell if srs
@@AngrySnowboarderwhy not? if i use a brush? also what if i ptex some holes, do i need to brush it so it fill follow the orginal structure? or i am overthinking it?
Avran, what is a reasonable price to have this done? I went to a shop yesterday and this concept was unheard of to the tech. I spoke to. Then I was talking with my friend about it, and we likened this whole concept to laces on footballs, divots in golf balls, and the wobble of spherical bullets from a musket and so on and now it makes perfect sense. I need to try out your no wax theory too because if getting structure put in and not waxing is the thing to do then I gotta do that.
Depends on the shop and what not but typically it's between 45 to 100 bucks depending on where you go.
Just got structure in my board from your recommendation. Is it supposed to run from tip to tail? My shop did it just in the middle and wonder if its wrong
What?
@@AngrySnowboarder the structure only runs between the contact points. the tip and tail hasnt been done, is that normal? basically what I'm asking is if the entire base should be structured
Yeah that's fine.
So if the board has that structure made on the base, does it need waxing? I haven't encountered with this so far, and my GF's Volkl Savvy 2017, and its base is making that sound. Even when I wax it and scrape it, I can still hear it and its not perfectly smooth and flat
I don't wax.
@@AngrySnowboarder any reasoning behind that? I would love to learn more about it, do you have any literature to read about it?
Great for warm snow, but I find all the structure I've ever had in a base is terribly slow in cold or man-made snow, especially when your board is sliding sideways. Makes every non-carved turn feel terrible. Minimal structure for me unless it's spring riding!
Sounds more like you can't ride.
Can you give a list of brands that do ( or don't, what ever list is shorter) give structure out of the factory?
Ride, K2, Capita.
I scratched up my megamerc on early season rocks...will a base grind mess up that capita omnitune they marketing or nothing to worry about?
Depends on how deep your scratches are and how much you take off.
@@AngrySnowboarder Thank you!…looking at christys or evo in Denver to take it in…who has better techs or all the same?
I don't go to Denver ever.
@@AngrySnowboarder Someone has to do it
Would a wet belt sander be able to add structure to a base? Recently took my board to a shop for a stone grind. Guys at the shop said they do a belt grind with wet sand paper on boards and it would give the same result. Got my board back and there was no structure pattern whatsoever, just a smooth base. So in the end did I get screwed over?
No, they're lying to you.
they're lazy and don't know crap. leave them an appropriate review.
I need a new base on one of my boards, took a sander to it. Lol any links to where I can get this done ?
lmgtfy.com/?q=local+snowboard+tune+shops&s=l
Can structure be put into any snowboard base (extruded or sintered)?
Yes.
Ok Angry, do you think this would help my EJack knife glide better over wet and manmade Snow? I can go without wax if it works. I only wax to make it faster and if I don't need it with structure I won't bother
Wax always
@@morgue1130 No wax on structure.
@@olecranonrebellion9976 I’m a ski/snowboard technician and you’re wrong. 9 days ago you commented on an angry snowboarder video titled “5 reasons you’re not progressing”. You said yourself you’re a beginner. You need years of research and experience snowboarding before you can give snowboard related advice/knowledge to anyone. Wax always
What are the situations where wax is preferable?
I put a combination of race wax and normal wax on my board, thinking I'd be super fast. 🙈. I went slower.
So I took it to a shop on the mountain to get it professionally done, for the conditions. But the conditions went to below -10 the next day 🙄, so I ended even slower and even came to an abrupt dead stop in places.
In the end, I had a full service including having structure put into the board. It was fast for a day or so, mostly because the edges were ninja sharp.
I've never had this problem with any other board.
@angry snowboarder How does wax affect a structured base?
The same as a regular base.
So I have a bataleon goliath, which came with a structured base. I took it to a snowboard shop to get it waxed and I got it back with no structure.... Is that normal or was it a crap shop? Are you supposed to get your board restructured every so often?
Wax is heated up to liquid form then it cools down and solidifies.
@@AngrySnowboarder I understand how wax works; maybe I wasn't clear enough in my question unless you're saying the wax filled in the structure. Every other time I've waxed, you could still feel the structure with your nail. Now it's as smooth as a baby's butt.
I'm wondering if they belt-sanded the base to tune it and ground down the structure before they waxed it.
Or they just didn't brass brush it.
@@AngrySnowboarder I'll just that a shot; hopefully that's it! I appreciate your insight 🙂
Hi Angry! What brands has the fastest bases on the market, top-5?
Whichever ones actually structure there base. Right now Capita, Ride, K2, Burton all seem to be doing it right.
@@AngrySnowboarder what about Bataleon… I believe you mentioned Never Summer doesn’t (is that true for all their boards or just lower $$$ lines?)
Nice! if a board has structure, does waxing fills those little gaps? Is that ok ? I have a Capita board.
Just use a brass brush after waxing on it.
Best structure pattern for east coast groomed hardpack?
Really depends on the moisture content of the snow but for safety sake a medium to aggressive cross hatch.
@@AngrySnowboarder what type comes on the Mercury? I could tell my very first run.
Yes! I learned what it is. Thank you. Went to check my new board and it has it haha.. 🎉 puh..
I have yet to notice “structure”. Had it done on one of my 2 boards and when the wax wore off the structured board had a bit slower base actually.
That's because you got it waxed.
Is structure directional?
It can be depending on what pattern you run on it, but generally no.
Instead of one wide board couldn't you just use two narrower ones?
Fuck off skier.
😂
Maybe im doing something wrong but i did never experience a base loosing structure that much, you would recognize. Further information given: i have about 80-100 days per season and get myself one new board (Capita indoor survival) in the beginning of every season or at least as soon as it is available. How does structure get out of the base?
What are you asking?
@@AngrySnowboarder how does it happen that you need a new stonegrind? How do you get structure out of the base?
@@klnrtrzn4449 Structure removes some base. Its a process that takes time and machine, which is why top tier boards have it from factory. Some boards at just ran over a flat belt. This is much faster.
Hitting rocks, jibbing, normal abuse, random freak scraping accident.
Sports Basement destroyed my Lib Tech E-Jack Knife. I purchased a full tune/grind, and DPS Phantom installed. Out the door $254.
My board is 30%+ slower and with race was 35%+ slower. GPSed speed runs.
My $150 amazon park noodle POS is faster now. That board could not touch my Lib Tech before I had the work done.
Any ideas WTF happend?
Only 5 days and 25 hours physically snowboarding down a run/line.
I don't know why you got a grind if you put DPS on it as that is an epoxy like chemical that hardens to the base. Stone grind seems excessive since it was covered over. My guess is they didn't put it on right but I have 0 experience doing so take that with a grain of salt.
Grinded then DPS. I'm figuring it out. I was just looking for input. Thanks
So I have a premium stone ground base I get a small core shot on 2nd day of use.
Make mistake of thinking local shop could do a better job than I could at home..
Not only do they do a shitty p tex repair they burn the crap out of the base with some old or dry belt sander.
A better shop cant get the stone grind pattern across the board blaming the hack shop..
What is the best way to undo burnt base damage?
Sounds like both shops suck ass. A good stone grind with an edge tune will take it down to fresh material.
what made the ptex repair shitty? I literally did the same thing as you on my new board this season
@@AngrySnowboarder Actually upon further research it turns out that both of my K2 simple pleasures the 1920 and the 2021 are both concave.
I think it actually makes them real faster on the turns and it's not a problem.
I was able to get rid of the base burn on the edges with super sharp steel scraper light touch and lots of patients it's actually better than before now.
Have you ridden that Stalefish?
Yes.
Structure >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>wax.
there's no hope for me, great video.
At least you recognize that.
If the boards a sintered one from mervin its pretty much essential as 99% of the time the bases are so badly finished it is more furry than my cat....
And that's why you gotta take it to the local shop to have it groomed.
@@AngrySnowboarder lol
You forgott: how to getstructure in your board...
Pay a Stoner
@@genegraves6963 Tnx but i dont smoke weed ;)
CMBBC relax no weed smoking required.
@@genegraves6963 ahahh this convo right here
I drove an hour to a shop today that said my lib tech already had structure in the base. I was not happy to hear that.
I doubt it has structure.
@@AngrySnowboarder yea I didn’t agree with the tech that I talked to while I was there. I’ll just have to search for a shop around me that is up to the task. I live in Delaware. I’m going to try Danzeisen & Quigley next, then Buckmans in PA. I’ve been to shops in Delaware and Maryland so far.
@@aaronpeople101 I’d go to Buckmans first and maybe check the Loft outside Tannersville PA as well.
@@AngrySnowboarder thank you for the recommendations
Why you so angry bro?!!!
Why are you so unoriginal you think this is a witty comment? Are you a fucking troglodyte?
@@AngrySnowboarder lol