I think you were a bit harsh with the asteroids. I think it deserves low c-tier because one, with Astro drill or any asteroid card it is really strong, so it's edge cases where it's really good should factor in, I think F tier should be reserved for cards that are never the best prelude and there are enough cases of it being ridiculous. Also it is not terrible most of the time, even at its worst there are a few of preludes that I would take it over.
I mean, even with Astrodrill I wouldn't say that Main Belt Asteroids is crazy. In that case you're using one Prelude and your corp ability to basically just get a bunch of titanium prod.
Hi! You have been randomly chosen to win the giveaway :) To give me you address it's probably best to write a dm on twitter. Alternatively you can add me on discord - I can give you my username when you react here. If you have any other suggestion on how to exchange addresses let me know. Also, if you don't want / need the cards after all, just let me know and I'll choose someone else :)
I was gone for the weekend while this video released, so here are the five promo cards I will be giving away: Robot Pollinators Supercapacitors 16 Psyche Directed Heat Usage Icy Impactors As I said in the video, you can participate in the giveaway by liking the video, subscribing to my channel and leaving a comment here. I'll choose the winner on 10.10.2024 and contact you here on UA-cam. If you decide you do not want the cards after all, I'll just choose someone else. Thanks for you amazing support lately :)
Loved the video: RE: Old Mining Colony - while the value is similar to Donation, it is rare to actually find those cards that give that 10 ME value for a titanium production and 15 ME for a colony, so I think there is an underrated opportunity value there. I so agree with your assessments of everything. Nice work putting together such a massive video!
Just shocked about project eden, I really do wish they'd do a balance/update pack, like 10 euros to make the bottom 15 cards better and top 15 a bit less broken (projects/preludes/corps). I'd take that in a heart beat
Frankly, some of these preludes are insane and show that the devs don't know what their game is about half the time. - Corridors of power should be about chairman and it would be more palatable; when I heard you say it was party leader I was incredibly confused. Applied Science and Focused research i think could share: applied science gets resource exchange with no limits and a wild tag, and focused research allows you card recycling and that's it (card recycling is powerful, but it needs a card enigne to work, and you don't always have it,and even then it would still be very powerful, maybe make it so it only recycles on Science tags like Mars U, if it's still too strong). - Industrial complex is insanely expensive. The devs really underestimate the neccesity of focused production. I don't think it should be free, but the cost should certainly be reduced, maybe to -10 or even -6 since it gives you a lot of things you don't care about) - Main belt asteroid needs to be free, at the very least, if not actually give MC or tit prod instead to make it viable. - Nobel prize is basically research network, with one less card, and 2 VP and a wild tag in exchange. Why...? - Preservation program is so bad! I don't even know what kind of bonus would warrant losing so much money and VP. maybe make it so your TR is converted to 2 Mc prod instead? That would keep the flavor and give youa unique way of playing where you will have a big economy but needs to rely on other sources of VP. - Project Eden... what the heck is wrong with balance? It's like they heard that cities are underwhelming so they went overboard on the other side. At least remove the greenery and make it a big placer prelude with a plant tag. I don't know, I just don't know. - Space lanes and all the rebate/discount prelude cards are neat, they give you a direction and areward for it. Space lanes needed more titanium to make it worth it, and venus needed much more power to make it valuable... maybe make it give more venus cards so it's easier to get them, and turn the rebate into a discount. - Venus Li shade really needed a venus tag. Also, note the 3 venus means you're close to the extra card from the tracker. - World governement advisor is rush: the prelude. Also, gives everyone else stress through control of the trackers. - Established methods shows us that the devs assume stadard project values when abalncing resources. They think power prod is valued at 11 and so on, otherwise this card is horribly underpowered. And of courtse, in reality, it is horribly underpowered. - Strategic base planning; finally a city prelude that is very decent! Shame we can't reverse engineer the older ones.
Yes, with some of these cards I'm also not sure if they were ever playtested :D Some notes: Corridors of Power is significantly weaker the higher the playercount - I was mainly factoring in 2p, but in 4p for example, becoming party leader is way less common. Industrial Compley: I think they shot themselves in the foot when designing Society Support. That prelude is trash, but they don't want to invalidate it with Industrial Complex. Project Eden: This still baffles me the most - it's so obviously op. Everybody and their grandma can quickly add together the value of the included components and will immediately notice that something's wrong. World Government Advisor: I love this prelude so much!
Great video! I just got my German version of Prelude 2 from SPIEL in Essen. I guess, my gaming group and I will houserule Preludes like Project Eden to come with an additional -15MC fee (or anything along those lines, we'll see how this plays out) because this is just ridiculous. Anyways, I love the new content which is available now. The new maps also bring some more replay value!
Oh man I would've loved to go to SPIEL again. I went in 2022 with a few friends and it was a blast. Sadly, this year and last year it overlapped with our yearly boardgame getaway :(
I played Main Belt Asteroids and put down Comet Aiming in the first gen, and it worked out well. I got to place an ocean for free once per gen for the first three or four gens (as the other players raced to get rid of their ocean cards). After that I was able to place a full victory point on the prelude and gain an extra titanium every gen. Not a game breaker, but a good return on the 25 MC upfront cost. But, just like Astrodrill, I probably wouldn't play MBA if I didn't have a good asteroid card in my initial hand.
Floating trade hub can be a bit like Biosphere support, giving you a guaranteed greenery gen 5. It is also an easy way to get Overlord. Not that it makes it really strong or anything, but it has some use. I'm pretty sure industrial complex will see some play, given it gives something to do if you have nothing worth to play gen 1 in your starting hand. Paying 18MC to get 2 prelude worth of prod isn't the worst deal you can have. It would be interesting to do the math to compare the 2 cards with requirements of Nobel prize vs the 3 cards of Research network. Research will win, but may be not with a big margin, at least not a margin worth much more than early 2 VP. Double down Preservation Program is quite fun, you start with 30 TR. Project Eden with Tharis is also quite fun
True, Industrial Complex can be something to do for Credicor, Teractor or other rich corps if you've got nothing to do. I'd probably still take most other production Preludes over it still, since they do not slow you down in gen 2 that hard, but you're right. I did not think of the Double Down + Preservation Program combo...if the effect does not combine to prevent your second TR step each gen, it could be quite good.
@@marsexpert4276 yeah it doesn't prevent your second TR step each gen, double down only copy direct effects of its target not the passive effect or action, so a big start with 10TR !
Applied Science could be used to add asteroids to Rotator Impacts, Directed Impactors, Comet Aiming, or Icy Impactors and do a step of terraforming every gen. It also might be useful with Martian Zoo, if you know there will be two cities going down right away.
I too think asteroids make applied science busted. Like actually really busted. Had it with astrodrill and it was practically +3 titanium prod on a prelude. Unfortunately, quite a few ratings are unfair bc it didnt take account of the synergies that truly maximizes certain preludes.
For Atmospheric Enhancers, something worth noting - as per the game's rules you can perform the actions in any order, so you can (and should) always draw the two floater cards first and select your bumps accordingly - it is very possible, especially in all expansions, to draw *Jovian* floater cards which do not care about the Venus scale at all, or likewise to draw similar Venus cards, in which case you might be encouraged to take the heat or oxygen bumps depending on context. Still not a great prelude either way.
Preservation Program only gives Pristar 3 terraform rating because of the auto -.2 on the corporation. It's likely that after generation 1 or 2, other players will be past that!
What are you thoughts on playing with the maps with the expanded global parameters and rush strats? I realize it makes the game longer for the engine player to build up, but there is also more TR up for grabs for the terraformer, or does that not matter since the game drags too long? Even though I like the expansions, I always find myself coming back to Prelude + Base since it offers opportunities for both strategies to shine, where rush just falls off so hard with more expansions added with the lack/dilution of terraforming cards. Project Eden with Mining Guild would be so satisfying.
I feel like a straight rush is almodt unfeasible when playing with all expansions...the expansions add almost now really strong terraforming cards. They lack good plant / heat producers and most importantly space events like GIA or Deimos. And since you need to draw the perfect cards as an engine player to outrush an engine opponent, the diluted deck kills this strat. The extended map basically requires you to play the expansions, so I'd say rushing on it is really bad. Sure if you play with 5 players (as recommended), games can still go quite fast, but just because everyone helps a bit.
@@marsexpert4276 Yeah, I thought so, but still a confirmation is more than welcome, thank you! When can we expect the "How good are the new Corporations in Prelude 2" video? :)
I feel like what you miss about a lot of these (e.g. space lanes) is discounted cash flows, the idea that cash in the future is worth less than cash now, if I get the money now, I can develop earlier and get more value...
I think I reference this concept a lot in my videos. I value a card like Allied Bank much higher than a card like Business Empire. Maybe it didn't feel like it with some of these placements, but I definitely try to take it into account.
Played Project Eden on Terra Cimmeria with Colonies, and I went first. I grabbed the spot that lets you place a colony for 5 MC and the two spots that give two titanium. I put the colony on Triton, gaining three more titanium. Then I played Space Port Colony for 7 Ti + 6 MC to grab a colony on Luna. Add in the cost of the three useless cards I had to buy, and that's two of the best colonies and two TR for 20 MC in my first turn. Yeah, Project Eden can be kinda busted.
Just a few things I wanted to point out from this video: I think a big factor in how they balance cards like celestic and floating trade hub are they usually give you a very easy hoverlord so even though the value is below par I think this will often make up the difference. I agree that project eden is completely overturned but I think the baselines you used to evaluate it were overestimating it a little. Based on other preludes a city is valued at about 12mc (early settlement), an ocean about 10-11 mc (great aquifier) and a greenery seems to be about 15mc (experimental forest) which puts it at about 38-9=29mc in value which is still broken but not quite so much if you are using these more reserved estimations. I think you valued Venus at 12 on giant solar collector which just seems a bit off since tr on most other preludes is valued at 6-7mc and as you mentioned earlier Venus LI shade isn't exactly an op prelude.
You're forgetting the placement bonuses which can easily be on top of what you said: 4M + 2 card draw + 2 plants + 1 titanium (which is exactly what I got on a game I played today on one of the new maps). And the plant badge is really useful. Crazy value. Completely broken
I mean yeah, if you compare Project Eden to other Preludes and assume their value to be 21MC you get those values. But this method would still put Project Eden above every other prelude in the game, since you just assumed their value to be 21. But Great Aquifer for example is not a 21MC value prelude in my opinion. In fact, I rank it in A to S since I think it is worth more. So how do I get my values? I look at the most basic project card that grants the effect in question. For the greenery I take Plantation (15+3=18) and add one MC since Plantation has a requirement. This matches the basic rule that a standard project is 4MC more expensive than it should be. For the ocean I take Subterranean Reservoir (11+3), again matching SP - 4MC. For the city I take the SP and subtract 4MC of inefficiency and 4-5MC of value for the MC prod to get to 16-17MC. This means Great Aquifer would be worth 28MC for me, explaining at least partly why I like it so much. And that's also how I get to 41MC for Project Eden.
@@gregorygirbeau8459 Placement bonuses have already been taken into the account in the prizes of cities, greeneries and oceans in the cards and Standard Projects. That's why they are more expensive than for example raising temperature.
Played a game recently with main belt asteroids, plus comet aiming and rotator impacts in my opening hand. Later in the game I managed to play asteroid deflection system. Even with all that I didn't do so well points-wise, but it was fun tossing asteroids all over the place. Overall I'd agree it's a low tier card.
i think you rated Corridors of Power this high because you rated it as a 2 player game, but at more it will be harder to take the party leader position without extra cards like martian media centers and each gen, after most of the party leader positions have been contested, there will be at most one party that is free, but you also can't contest hard some party leader position because of their ruling policy and ruling bonus. So i think corridors of power is not that strong, it's still a solid card, but not that high and thank you for organizing this giveaway
So project Eden vs Corridors of power? I think PE is better, but what really bothers me is that you don't even have to play well with it to make it amazing, it just is always amazing. Whereas COP I can see people missusing it and actually gaining less than its worth. So I really like the design of COP, and hate the design of PE, but I think in terms of value PE is better.
Yeah, I think you analyzed it perfectly. CoP offers a lot of potential. If you're using it right and it's a long 2p game you can get so much out of it. Project Eden on the other hand is just insane raw value.
Nice video, ty 🙂 I get Industrial Complex cost is due to giving generalist gen 1 (but I personally would never pay 18 Mc for that crap). WIth Established method you could sell 2 cards for a net 26 money which isnt bad.
Fryxgames specified on BGG that Established Methods does not allow you to just sell 2 cards. It says "pay and perform" and when selling cards you're not paying for anything.
I disagree with the evaluation of floating trade hub. 16:48 When Venus is included, Hoverlord for 7 floaters is always a milestone. I'm more than happy to take a guaranteed milestone in a box for a prelude, plus it can then be converted into 8 plants for a greenery or 8 titanium for 24 cash. Then, you build it up for a few more turns. If the game is ending gen9, you cash in for whatever is most valuable, or any longer and you can easily take more greeneries from this. For this reason, I see it as *almost* 2 plant/titanium production, but can be even better with cheap floater dropping cards to pump it up faster.
About Project Eden , shouldnt you put the ocean first , then city and then greenery ? in order I useally read the text and do all this in order cause this could be even more busted
All effects of a card (excluding costs and requirements) and even secondary effects on other cards that you trigger can be performed in an order chosen by the player. You can even play Moss without having a plant, if you have Viral Enhancers down already. So in this case you can choose the order of the tiles and discard the cards last.
@@marsexpert4276 ohh really , i never tried that myself with moss , is that inside the rules cause if it is i totally never played it that way or overlook it for placement cause useally game are pretty clear and strict about following rules order
@@marsexpert4276 also i have the game in french translation so some of them are weird translate cause ya am french canadian to begin with , we did check a few rules on the english version to be sure back in like 2019 or something. Cause you know translation somehow can get confusing :)
author already talk about adding expansion on the base game without corporate era, you can do it but expansions were made for the base game + corporate era
I noticed Venus preludes getting downranked because they are only relevant for Venus strategies but Colony preludes don't even though they depend on a Luna, Pluto or Ceres being in the game.
Yeah, as Tomas said: Colonies-based preludes are always good since with at least 4 colonies in the game there will alway be at least 1 or 2 useful tiles. Even without Luna or Pluto, placing a colony there will help you greatly.
Hello, Thanks for the content ! Would love to get a promo card. Still waiting for my prelude 2 and local shop said it wont be any sooner than December :D
I think you were a bit harsh with the asteroids. I think it deserves low c-tier because one, with Astro drill or any asteroid card it is really strong, so it's edge cases where it's really good should factor in, I think F tier should be reserved for cards that are never the best prelude and there are enough cases of it being ridiculous. Also it is not terrible most of the time, even at its worst there are a few of preludes that I would take it over.
I mean, even with Astrodrill I wouldn't say that Main Belt Asteroids is crazy. In that case you're using one Prelude and your corp ability to basically just get a bunch of titanium prod.
Hi! You have been randomly chosen to win the giveaway :)
To give me you address it's probably best to write a dm on twitter. Alternatively you can add me on discord - I can give you my username when you react here. If you have any other suggestion on how to exchange addresses let me know.
Also, if you don't want / need the cards after all, just let me know and I'll choose someone else :)
Sounds great
How do I add you on discord?
Thank you for all the content over the years!
No worries and thanks for your support :)
I was gone for the weekend while this video released, so here are the five promo cards I will be giving away:
Robot Pollinators
Supercapacitors
16 Psyche
Directed Heat Usage
Icy Impactors
As I said in the video, you can participate in the giveaway by liking the video, subscribing to my channel and leaving a comment here. I'll choose the winner on 10.10.2024 and contact you here on UA-cam. If you decide you do not want the cards after all, I'll just choose someone else.
Thanks for you amazing support lately :)
Loved the video:
RE: Old Mining Colony - while the value is similar to Donation, it is rare to actually find those cards that give that 10 ME value for a titanium production and 15 ME for a colony, so I think there is an underrated opportunity value there.
I so agree with your assessments of everything. Nice work putting together such a massive video!
So glad I found your channel. You’ve really helped my gameplay improve. So cool that we are still getting more expansions for the game!
I'm glad I was able to help out! Thanks for your support :)
I started playing Terraforming Mars with my roommates about a month ago, and your videos have helped me win some games. Thanks for that!
No worries!
Nice overview! I think Space Lanes and Terraforming Deal are my favorites.
I think after playing with it for the first time, I like Focused Organization the most, but Terraforming Deal is also super fun!
I appreciate all of the Terraforming Mars content.
Just shocked about project eden, I really do wish they'd do a balance/update pack, like 10 euros to make the bottom 15 cards better and top 15 a bit less broken (projects/preludes/corps). I'd take that in a heart beat
A balance pack would be great (and I would love for them to do that), but I doubt it'll ever happen :(
Thanks for the reviews. It's nice to see others' opinions.
Frankly, some of these preludes are insane and show that the devs don't know what their game is about half the time.
- Corridors of power should be about chairman and it would be more palatable; when I heard you say it was party leader I was incredibly confused. Applied Science and Focused research i think could share: applied science gets resource exchange with no limits and a wild tag, and focused research allows you card recycling and that's it (card recycling is powerful, but it needs a card enigne to work, and you don't always have it,and even then it would still be very powerful, maybe make it so it only recycles on Science tags like Mars U, if it's still too strong).
- Industrial complex is insanely expensive. The devs really underestimate the neccesity of focused production. I don't think it should be free, but the cost should certainly be reduced, maybe to -10 or even -6 since it gives you a lot of things you don't care about)
- Main belt asteroid needs to be free, at the very least, if not actually give MC or tit prod instead to make it viable.
- Nobel prize is basically research network, with one less card, and 2 VP and a wild tag in exchange. Why...?
- Preservation program is so bad! I don't even know what kind of bonus would warrant losing so much money and VP. maybe make it so your TR is converted to 2 Mc prod instead? That would keep the flavor and give youa unique way of playing where you will have a big economy but needs to rely on other sources of VP.
- Project Eden... what the heck is wrong with balance? It's like they heard that cities are underwhelming so they went overboard on the other side. At least remove the greenery and make it a big placer prelude with a plant tag. I don't know, I just don't know.
- Space lanes and all the rebate/discount prelude cards are neat, they give you a direction and areward for it. Space lanes needed more titanium to make it worth it, and venus needed much more power to make it valuable... maybe make it give more venus cards so it's easier to get them, and turn the rebate into a discount.
- Venus Li shade really needed a venus tag. Also, note the 3 venus means you're close to the extra card from the tracker.
- World governement advisor is rush: the prelude. Also, gives everyone else stress through control of the trackers.
- Established methods shows us that the devs assume stadard project values when abalncing resources. They think power prod is valued at 11 and so on, otherwise this card is horribly underpowered. And of courtse, in reality, it is horribly underpowered.
- Strategic base planning; finally a city prelude that is very decent! Shame we can't reverse engineer the older ones.
Yes, with some of these cards I'm also not sure if they were ever playtested :D Some notes:
Corridors of Power is significantly weaker the higher the playercount - I was mainly factoring in 2p, but in 4p for example, becoming party leader is way less common.
Industrial Compley: I think they shot themselves in the foot when designing Society Support. That prelude is trash, but they don't want to invalidate it with Industrial Complex.
Project Eden: This still baffles me the most - it's so obviously op. Everybody and their grandma can quickly add together the value of the included components and will immediately notice that something's wrong.
World Government Advisor: I love this prelude so much!
Love your videos, really helped me understand strategies I'd been sleeping on. Keep the videos coming!
Thanks for the support! I'll keep it up :)
I really enjoy your content, can't wait to catch you live!
Thanks mate! Glad you're enjoying it :)
Great video! I just got my German version of Prelude 2 from SPIEL in Essen. I guess, my gaming group and I will houserule Preludes like Project Eden to come with an additional -15MC fee (or anything along those lines, we'll see how this plays out) because this is just ridiculous. Anyways, I love the new content which is available now. The new maps also bring some more replay value!
Oh man I would've loved to go to SPIEL again. I went in 2022 with a few friends and it was a blast. Sadly, this year and last year it overlapped with our yearly boardgame getaway :(
Thanx for all your content. Really enjoy watching it.
No worries! Thanks for the support :)
The first game I saw Industrial Complex, I also had Metals Company in my prelude hand. It was a fairly easy choice!
Understandably :D
Big fan of your commentaries!
I played Main Belt Asteroids and put down Comet Aiming in the first gen, and it worked out well. I got to place an ocean for free once per gen for the first three or four gens (as the other players raced to get rid of their ocean cards). After that I was able to place a full victory point on the prelude and gain an extra titanium every gen. Not a game breaker, but a good return on the 25 MC upfront cost. But, just like Astrodrill, I probably wouldn't play MBA if I didn't have a good asteroid card in my initial hand.
Yeah it really relies on getting a good asteroid card to combo it with, but considering how rare those are, MBA is not great.
Appreciate your content, helped me get a much deeper appreciation for this game, only problem is I'm now too good for all my friends!
Thanks a lot and sorry for that :D
Floating trade hub can be a bit like Biosphere support, giving you a guaranteed greenery gen 5. It is also an easy way to get Overlord. Not that it makes it really strong or anything, but it has some use.
I'm pretty sure industrial complex will see some play, given it gives something to do if you have nothing worth to play gen 1 in your starting hand. Paying 18MC to get 2 prelude worth of prod isn't the worst deal you can have.
It would be interesting to do the math to compare the 2 cards with requirements of Nobel prize vs the 3 cards of Research network. Research will win, but may be not with a big margin, at least not a margin worth much more than early 2 VP.
Double down Preservation Program is quite fun, you start with 30 TR.
Project Eden with Tharis is also quite fun
True, Industrial Complex can be something to do for Credicor, Teractor or other rich corps if you've got nothing to do. I'd probably still take most other production Preludes over it still, since they do not slow you down in gen 2 that hard, but you're right.
I did not think of the Double Down + Preservation Program combo...if the effect does not combine to prevent your second TR step each gen, it could be quite good.
@@marsexpert4276 yeah it doesn't prevent your second TR step each gen, double down only copy direct effects of its target not the passive effect or action, so a big start with 10TR !
@@snaksnak792 that might be quite a strong combo then...
really love the videos keep them coming :)
Applied Science could be used to add asteroids to Rotator Impacts, Directed Impactors, Comet Aiming, or Icy Impactors and do a step of terraforming every gen. It also might be useful with Martian Zoo, if you know there will be two cities going down right away.
I think asteroids are the best use for Applied Science, but research lab is the most fun. :D
I actually used Applied Science with Martian Zoo in a game already. It was quite fun but also didn't feel suuuper useful.
I too think asteroids make applied science busted. Like actually really busted. Had it with astrodrill and it was practically +3 titanium prod on a prelude. Unfortunately, quite a few ratings are unfair bc it didnt take account of the synergies that truly maximizes certain preludes.
Always enjoy your videos
Great Video
For Atmospheric Enhancers, something worth noting - as per the game's rules you can perform the actions in any order, so you can (and should) always draw the two floater cards first and select your bumps accordingly - it is very possible, especially in all expansions, to draw *Jovian* floater cards which do not care about the Venus scale at all, or likewise to draw similar Venus cards, in which case you might be encouraged to take the heat or oxygen bumps depending on context. Still not a great prelude either way.
Yeah, I forgot to mention that but it's 100% correct.
Preservation Program only gives Pristar 3 terraform rating because of the auto -.2 on the corporation. It's likely that after generation 1 or 2, other players will be past that!
Exactly, it's definitely a playable option for Pristar and maybe some heavy engine builds (especially with Double Down).
It's risky to play for Pristar if you want to get the Reds into power gen 1, but as you said it still can work for that corp.
What are you thoughts on playing with the maps with the expanded global parameters and rush strats? I realize it makes the game longer for the engine player to build up, but there is also more TR up for grabs for the terraformer, or does that not matter since the game drags too long?
Even though I like the expansions, I always find myself coming back to Prelude + Base since it offers opportunities for both strategies to shine, where rush just falls off so hard with more expansions added with the lack/dilution of terraforming cards.
Project Eden with Mining Guild would be so satisfying.
I feel like a straight rush is almodt unfeasible when playing with all expansions...the expansions add almost now really strong terraforming cards. They lack good plant / heat producers and most importantly space events like GIA or Deimos. And since you need to draw the perfect cards as an engine player to outrush an engine opponent, the diluted deck kills this strat.
The extended map basically requires you to play the expansions, so I'd say rushing on it is really bad. Sure if you play with 5 players (as recommended), games can still go quite fast, but just because everyone helps a bit.
How would you rule Space Lanes when it comes to the cards having multiple planet tags? Would it be cumulative discount?
100%! A card like Sister Planet Support would be discounted by 4MC. Valley Trust discounts Research by 4MC, so Space Lanes works exactly the same way.
@@marsexpert4276 Yeah, I thought so, but still a confirmation is more than welcome, thank you! When can we expect the "How good are the new Corporations in Prelude 2" video? :)
@@robc9337 No problem :)
That video will release in the first week of November!
I feel like what you miss about a lot of these (e.g. space lanes) is discounted cash flows, the idea that cash in the future is worth less than cash now, if I get the money now, I can develop earlier and get more value...
I think I reference this concept a lot in my videos. I value a card like Allied Bank much higher than a card like Business Empire. Maybe it didn't feel like it with some of these placements, but I definitely try to take it into account.
Played Project Eden on Terra Cimmeria with Colonies, and I went first. I grabbed the spot that lets you place a colony for 5 MC and the two spots that give two titanium. I put the colony on Triton, gaining three more titanium. Then I played Space Port Colony for 7 Ti + 6 MC to grab a colony on Luna. Add in the cost of the three useless cards I had to buy, and that's two of the best colonies and two TR for 20 MC in my first turn. Yeah, Project Eden can be kinda busted.
Omg what a start hahahaha
Just a few things I wanted to point out from this video:
I think a big factor in how they balance cards like celestic and floating trade hub are they usually give you a very easy hoverlord so even though the value is below par I think this will often make up the difference.
I agree that project eden is completely overturned but I think the baselines you used to evaluate it were overestimating it a little. Based on other preludes a city is valued at about 12mc (early settlement), an ocean about 10-11 mc (great aquifier) and a greenery seems to be about 15mc (experimental forest) which puts it at about 38-9=29mc in value which is still broken but not quite so much if you are using these more reserved estimations.
I think you valued Venus at 12 on giant solar collector which just seems a bit off since tr on most other preludes is valued at 6-7mc and as you mentioned earlier Venus LI shade isn't exactly an op prelude.
So project Eden could be quite balanced if it discarded 5 cards.
@@tomaszvexling I think so - and then you would be more likely to have tough decisions for what to discard from your start hand.
You're forgetting the placement bonuses which can easily be on top of what you said: 4M + 2 card draw + 2 plants + 1 titanium (which is exactly what I got on a game I played today on one of the new maps). And the plant badge is really useful. Crazy value. Completely broken
I mean yeah, if you compare Project Eden to other Preludes and assume their value to be 21MC you get those values. But this method would still put Project Eden above every other prelude in the game, since you just assumed their value to be 21. But Great Aquifer for example is not a 21MC value prelude in my opinion. In fact, I rank it in A to S since I think it is worth more.
So how do I get my values? I look at the most basic project card that grants the effect in question.
For the greenery I take Plantation (15+3=18) and add one MC since Plantation has a requirement. This matches the basic rule that a standard project is 4MC more expensive than it should be.
For the ocean I take Subterranean Reservoir (11+3), again matching SP - 4MC.
For the city I take the SP and subtract 4MC of inefficiency and 4-5MC of value for the MC prod to get to 16-17MC.
This means Great Aquifer would be worth 28MC for me, explaining at least partly why I like it so much. And that's also how I get to 41MC for Project Eden.
@@gregorygirbeau8459 Placement bonuses have already been taken into the account in the prizes of cities, greeneries and oceans in the cards and Standard Projects. That's why they are more expensive than for example raising temperature.
Would love to have them!!
Du bekommst sie ganz sicher nicht
Played a game recently with main belt asteroids, plus comet aiming and rotator impacts in my opening hand. Later in the game I managed to play asteroid deflection system. Even with all that I didn't do so well points-wise, but it was fun tossing asteroids all over the place. Overall I'd agree it's a low tier card.
They look pretty fun 🤔😁
I wait for this video
i think you rated Corridors of Power this high because you rated it as a 2 player game, but at more it will be harder to take the party leader position without extra cards like martian media centers and each gen, after most of the party leader positions have been contested, there will be at most one party that is free, but you also can't contest hard some party leader position because of their ruling policy and ruling bonus.
So i think corridors of power is not that strong, it's still a solid card, but not that high
and thank you for organizing this giveaway
Yeah, you might be right. I mainly play 2p these days and kinda viewed it through that lense. In 4 or 5p it is way weaker for sure.
So project Eden vs Corridors of power? I think PE is better, but what really bothers me is that you don't even have to play well with it to make it amazing, it just is always amazing. Whereas COP I can see people missusing it and actually gaining less than its worth. So I really like the design of COP, and hate the design of PE, but I think in terms of value PE is better.
Yeah, I think you analyzed it perfectly. CoP offers a lot of potential. If you're using it right and it's a long 2p game you can get so much out of it. Project Eden on the other hand is just insane raw value.
I wonder if you could use CEOs Favorite Project to get an extra prelude by adding another resource to Board of Directors.
You can!
Nice video, ty 🙂
I get Industrial Complex cost is due to giving generalist gen 1 (but I personally would never pay 18 Mc for that crap).
WIth Established method you could sell 2 cards for a net 26 money which isnt bad.
Fryxgames specified on BGG that Established Methods does not allow you to just sell 2 cards. It says "pay and perform" and when selling cards you're not paying for anything.
@@marsexpert4276 Ok I get it. They could have been more clear tho specifying "2 standard projects BUT selling cards..." :-). TY
@@s.d.d.6063 For sure. Specifying is always better than having to explain it in an online forum!
I disagree with the evaluation of floating trade hub. 16:48
When Venus is included, Hoverlord for 7 floaters is always a milestone. I'm more than happy to take a guaranteed milestone in a box for a prelude, plus it can then be converted into 8 plants for a greenery or 8 titanium for 24 cash. Then, you build it up for a few more turns. If the game is ending gen9, you cash in for whatever is most valuable, or any longer and you can easily take more greeneries from this.
For this reason, I see it as *almost* 2 plant/titanium production, but can be even better with cheap floater dropping cards to pump it up faster.
Yes, more or less guaranteeing Hoverlord is an asset. Maybe I underestimated this. I need to try it out to see how it feels.
About Project Eden , shouldnt you put the ocean first , then city and then greenery ? in order I useally read the text and do all this in order cause this could be even more busted
All effects of a card (excluding costs and requirements) and even secondary effects on other cards that you trigger can be performed in an order chosen by the player. You can even play Moss without having a plant, if you have Viral Enhancers down already.
So in this case you can choose the order of the tiles and discard the cards last.
@@marsexpert4276 I didn't realise this, that can make such a huge difference wow
@@marsexpert4276 ohh really , i never tried that myself with moss , is that inside the rules cause if it is i totally never played it that way or overlook it for placement cause useally game are pretty clear and strict about following rules order
@@marsexpert4276 also i have the game in french translation so some of them are weird translate cause ya am french canadian to begin with , we did check a few rules on the english version to be sure back in like 2019 or something. Cause you know translation somehow can get confusing :)
let's go!!!
Re Established Methods: "Sell patents" is a Standard Project.
It says pay and perform and you can't pay for sell patents
@@phgames2032 Yes you can, by discarding a card.
@@WoJoFeIt has been clarified multiple times on BGG. “Sell patents” does not qualify as a standard project for this prelude
Yeah, I guess "pay" means paying MC.
@@CorP7 If they ruled it on BGG I concede. But from the text alone I'd say pay is whatever is left of the red arrow.
Project eden if you use the doubler prelude you better not lose that game
hahaha yeah - but in that case it definitely could be difficult to find enough cards to discard :D
Why is not Industrial complex not part of Corporate era? You start with 1 of each production if you dont play with Corporate era.
author already talk about adding expansion on the base game without corporate era, you can do it but expansions were made for the base game + corporate era
You are the reason why I destroyed my friend who played this game many more times then I did while it was my second all expansions game in my life.
Nice! Glad I was able to help :D
I noticed Venus preludes getting downranked because they are only relevant for Venus strategies but Colony preludes don't even though they depend on a Luna, Pluto or Ceres being in the game.
They're good in any game and strategy. With top tier Colonies they're just stronger.
Yeah, as Tomas said: Colonies-based preludes are always good since with at least 4 colonies in the game there will alway be at least 1 or 2 useful tiles. Even without Luna or Pluto, placing a colony there will help you greatly.
@@marsexpert4276 But not in the beginning, which especially the 3 power resource from the start prelude was about.
Hello, Thanks for the content ! Would love to get a promo card. Still waiting for my prelude 2 and local shop said it wont be any sooner than December :D
Oof that's rough...
It wouuld be a pleasure to win some cards🎉😮
Industrial complex sounds good in theory, but in practice its terrible... I think project Eden is good value for 9mc if ur starting hand is bad
Yeah, Project Eden is insane...
loving your content!!! id love to get those promos too!!!