@@lovethyneibor22736 Because this very wise thinker in the youtube comments said so. Also a psichiatrist, able to determine someones trauma only through a phrase.
Do something physical, work or go to a gym. Move your muscles and don’t dwell on your thoughts. You are creating your thoughts and emotions. Just observe your thoughts and don’t attach any danger to them.
Makes sense. When I was depressed and at my breaking point, I didn't want to die necessarily, I just didn't want to exist anymore because I was suffering so much in this existence. I'm glad I stuck it out though. Ultimately I decided to make a drastic change before killing myself, which was to leave my old life behind to travel with no money and few possessions. Many shifts in perspective happened and I was able to come back to the old life as a new, more resilient self.
That’s exactly how I describe the state I’m in, I don’t want to kill myself but I don’t want to exist anymore. I’m not suicidal, I don’t dare to do such a thing but most importantly, I care way too much of the effect that would have on my children if I were to do it. sometimes I wish I could just give up and nobody would be affected by it. Ultimately, Im more grateful I have reasons to exist. My kids existence has saved my life more than they will ever know
@@gmack. hitchhiking, busking (street musician in case you're unfamiliar with the term) for cash. It would be more appropriate to say "no savings" instead of "no money" in general. I only acquired money when I needed it.
How long and where'd you go? I had a similar journey and fell in love with all that travel. This is a phase of life that can bear tremendously rich fruit.
@@geekvinos down to Florida once and then back and forth across the US a few times. But I spent most of my time traveling up and down the west coast. I was on the road for about 2 years. It was the longest 2 years of my life in a good way.
"And I declared that the dead, who had already died, are happier than the living, who are still alive. But better than both is the one who has never been born, who has not seen the evil that is done under the sun." -Bible
@@lovethyneibor22736Islam has no issue subjugating females, Catholics are against contraception, they seek power control and spawn large families. That's population creation. While plenty of westerners prefer to not to exist in poverty or be bothered with the mess and drag kids into it, religious people will still be here making babies for their cause.
I'm currently going through a major crisis and this video did more to help me and clear up some things than the last four and a half hours of several self-help and psychology videos.
I'm with you! We struggle collectively, we must acknowledge that. But dont worry, this is just the cocoon state of metamorphosis.. darkness incubates growth of the soul! You will transcend!
Anyone who climbed high up on a mountain or building has at one time or another an idea or feeling of: "how about you jump from here" or "what will happen if you jump". In my experience and of others whom i talked about it, this happens not only when you feel down or depressed but also when youre feeling good. did anyone here experienced this?
Interesting thought I haven’t ever quite thought “how about I jump” but I’ve always been petrified of heights and especially standing near balconies or railings because I’ve always had a weird feeling of not being able to trust myself to not slip off/have a weird urge to get closer to the ledge and lean my body over and fall to my death the closer I am to them and or if I touch a rail or balcony rail I start to get stressed and feel like either I’m going to get pushed over by someone or do it to myself and my body completely takes control over everything while my brain is stuck thinking wtf dont jump idiot? lol so I just avoid being anywhere near them now
I've experienced this. My boyfriend at the time had the keys to give him access to the roof of his 16 storey apartment building since he was on the board. We went up there to enjoy the views and he got on his stomach and lay near the edge to briefly look down at the street below. He asked if I was ok with laying next to him. I refused to go near the edge. I told him I would find a way to jump or roll off the edge if I stood that close. The urge was strong for some reason. My life was and still is great. Have good family, friends and relationship. I'm happy, financially doing well, enjoy my job, never had depression. Yet...I have that curiosity of what will happen next? Dr. Edith Eva Eger's story described surviving the Holocaust due to her drive to live through curiosity. Wondering what was still in store for her life. For me, this curiosity is sometimes linked to the opposite. More about knowing so much about this life and wondering what comes after it.
I think you can expand on this as a natural Human drive we have. We are self destructive by nature if you look at Humans as a whole. A specific "group" of people will oftentimes bring Humanity down as a whole in the aims to increase the standing of their "group" over others. The best example would be either of the World Wars and some of the worst results, nuclear armament. By all intents and purposes self destruction is the most likely future of Humanity unless we can overcome what at least seems to be in our very nature. Edit: This comment was before I watched the video btw
@@MonkeyLiggaScrumptiousNan Same here and a few others I know. I thought originally that it was a latent feeling from when we were tree dwellers jumping tree to tree as I am drawn to the edge but also fear it. Just going to the roof of a tall building provokes all sorts of contradictory feelings and impulses. Had an office on the 22nd floor. Kept the blinds closed almost always. To see another person on the top of another building doing some maintenance without a tether was too much. Old pictures of people working in perilous conditions on skyscrapers with little or no safety precautions taken is too much to look at and it gets worse with age. I would be paralyzed in certain situations.
I spent most of my life being self destructive. I've stopped, but it is a struggle to be kind to myself. So odd. Now I try to do things that will have a positive impact when I'm no longer here. Such as planting trees.
@@Vapourwear I do things that are kind to myself such as not drinking alcohol, respecting myself, spending time in nature, prioritizing sleep, etc. Doing things that will benefit others and the planet helps me because it adds meaning to my life .
@@higherlove8886 That is called conscious evolution.Your are breaking free from your "little-big me" identification and expanding and including all around : others, animals, plants ...
@@higherlove8886this is great! It really makes a difference for others! I try as well. Even just smiling at people especially those who need it (homeless, or look angry, etc) I think the best thing for us all is to adopt veganism. Think of the holocaust that happens every minute to innocent animals. We could stop that! And the byproduct would be feeling much nicer towards each other, knowing we aren't responsible for such harm to conscious creatures. And think of how many trees we could plant then! Like 80%of land use is for farming animals. All that land could become forest and homes for many wild animals! People often just feel better in this diet too! The only downside is being aware and trying to convince others it's a worthy endeavor. It can be depressing how people treat you for just wanting less suffering to happen to innocent animals (we are often the most hated people in the planet). Still, I will never stop advocating because I truly believe it the next step in our awakening! On a different note, I also think having a creative pursuit is highly important. It's the opposite of self destructive! I paint, do photography, and play music just for myself. They make me much happier!
as someone who dealt with self destructive habits for way too long + mental illness. ive come to a point where i feel like i enjoy in self destructive habits and making myself feel like shit. which is why i even watched this but hey, this was quite enlightening
Hearing that there were philosophers that saw things the way I see them is refreshing. I never wanted kids because I could see how much suffering life has to offer
To desire the absence of suffering is to desire the destruction of all things, everything is connected through a bond of both suffering of the soul and elation of the soul. Even if you wish to deny the world, the world will never deny you. Your flesh and bones will return to nothingness , the cycle, sure. But the universe is always moving , changing therefore if we bring that to its absolute conclusion you will still contribute to "suffering" by simply being, you WILL always come back and be *something* after all, so it makes no difference. But you harp to much on this side of the coin, life and death the natural and unatural, thanatos and Eros are something you must acquire in balance. Together. If you are weighed down by one side or the other, it will only perpeuate a cycle that continues to affect *you* (the royal YOU) even after your death, placing you into a cycle for eons you might not even be aware of. So to chose the future of humanity is only natural. And the future is something you cannot disassociate from.
@@Paradox1012If your parents wouldn't have had you then you wouldn't be you. Sure your energy would have become something else but it would not be you. So when people decide not to have children they are still sparring them the pointless suffering.
@@JohnSmith-fo5cx Jesus H. Christ, proof of an eternal consciousness that permeates all things and is all? What a pillock. Go and read every religious text ever written. That's your PROOF. What an idiotic comment.
@@JohnSmith-fo5cx You can’t disprove a negative claim regarding metaphysics. People who lean on materialist science for some reason don’t disregard all of science in physics because science can’t prove that there was nothing before the Big Bang. But I would suggest watching some of philosopher Bernardo Kastrups videos/discussions here on YT. He makes logical arguments for the world being mental instead of actual physical stuff.
What Freud said about the ' death drive' is true for all humans, be you rich or poor. I find the concept both easy to understand but complex at the same time. What really come to my mind is Pink Floyd 's " comfortably numb" .Thanks Einzelganger, hope you are doing good.
@@lorenzog7811 Yes, if the rich are a psychopath. I personally won't be able to bare the weight of guilt, knowing I exploit, scam, and manipulate people to get rich. Probably will down in alcoholism.
@@daddy6757 ill take the money thanks. This world is a shit hole might as well enjoy it with money. Without it youre nothing but a slave. Not my fault "God" made it this horrible way
I use to be very happy go lucky. Then I began getting deep into smoking weed at 22 and drinking. I’ve never been the same. I’m no longer happy nor lucky. I’ve just screwed my life up time and time over in the last 5 years. So many mistakes financially, physically, and socially. I’m about to be 11 months sober but the damage is done. I’ve dug a real deep hole and I fear never making it out. I had a bright future. I really fucked up. Please, don’t do drugs. Being strong and healthy is the best thing you can do for yourself. The rest will follow if you take care of your health and then maybe we wouldn’t wonder if we would be better off dead. Exercise, read, eat your vitamins and say your prayers.
@willcross5512 I started smoking weed at 17 but it got out of control from 22-27. Made a lot of bad decisions and got behind in life. I was born and raised in the hood and feel ashamed that I haven’t been able to get out. Gang violence all around. I’m 5’10 but last year got way over weight. I blew up to 250 lbs. In a short amount of time. I’m now 190 but I have stretch marks all over. Everywhere. The ones on my stomach hurt me the most because even if I ever get back into shape, get all cut and lean then I’ll still have these ugly stretch marks on my abs. Not to mention everywhere else. I can’t even look at my arms or thighs without getting depressed and anxious because I can’t help but to be reminded about the mistake I made of gaining so much weight. I feel so unattractive. I know it’s vain but still. Before I felt like I could get any women in the world even if it wasn’t true. I guess you can say I’m a pretty handsome guy but now I feel hideous since I’m out of shape and have stretch marks everywhere. Im broke as shit. In huge debt with high interest rates. No car. Live with my parents but my dad hates me. Siblings not too fond of me anymore either. My mom, idk, she’s my mom but I know it’s not like before anymore. I have periodontal disease because I failed to take care of my oral health during the last 5 years of going off the rails smoking every day and eating like shit. Idk man I know I still have a lot to be grateful for and I listen to and read lots of motivational inspirational things but I’m just so ashamed of who I am and what I’ve become. It’s so embarrassing. I use to be an athlete. Lean. Responsible. But I just got out of control with the drugs and partying and haven’t amounted to anything so far. I have a bachelors. But haven’t really done shit with it. I’m going to be 28 at the end of the year and just feel like a fucking loser. Thank you for your insight though. It means a lot. You have definitely been through the ringer. I just feel like I’ve fucked myself up way too much at this point. It’s like I’ve said game over because I’m no longer physically attractive. The stretch marks really traumatized me and I fear never recovering from that. In all honestly that’s what bugs me the most and I know it’s pathetic. I’m balding a bit too. But nothing too crazy yet. But yeah I feel I threw my 20s away and my looks are gone too cus my skin is all fucked up.
@@scoobydooby6180the only way is up my brother. We all start somewhere, its time to start. For better or for worse. Make a change. You will thank yourself later, trust me. Work out, get fresh air, read. Who cares what anybody thinks…I know it sounds cliche but its very true. This change will be for you and only you. Head up chest out one day at a time. You’ve got this, I believe in you.
@@scoobydooby6180 Ayo thats pretty much me as well so at least know you not alone. At the end of the day it is what it is better start changing now than later. And we gotta let go of being attractive there are a lot of guys out here that never know what its like to be sought after at least you did. Find joy in other things in life
As with all things profound, the intellect complicates as well as elucidates. People aren't designed. Rather we are the emergent consequence of a number of "successful" systems. It makes total sense to want to live, to fight for your life but simultaneously feel so weary that you'd be happy if it were all over. People are not rational actors
@@sebastianelytron8450 It's witty, but not genius. Genius is realizing that no physical body has experienced nothingness, so they could not genuinely market the experience.
yes i think self isolation is a manifestation of death drive…i found my peace with death a long time ago when i watched my dad, my only secure attachment, die when i was 12. he taught me to make peace with his dying while he himself was making peace with it. i have never been afraid of death, but since pandemic i have embraced it more as a good thing that i look forward to, and its no coincidence ive been self isolating. i dont honestly enjoy life, but i try to make the best of it as long as i have to be here.
I feel the exact same way. I really never enjoyed life much tbh. But these days, I absolutely hate it. Nothing in this world brings me any happiness anymore
I watched a movie about a virus and was more disturbed by it than being in hospital because of covid, having lung inflammation and problems breathing. There was a dead body on the floor next to bathroom, people seemed to be mad at the guy for being dead. Nurses were smoking 🚬 in some room on the floor (Eastern Europe).We would close window because it was cold, they would open it every time. They gave me wrong medication, i didn't care. It was so silly.
As someone who struggles with the whole living thing. This made me feel so much better and would go as far as saying cheered me up. This explained something I have always felt but could never put into words
Me too I guess. I suppose it is also a topic of taboo. Telling someone that you would prefer to not exist often often raises concerns with people. They try to convince you that there is so much to live for.
It is actually fear of death. Everyone is anxious about their own certain death. They flee it, in to everyday banality, where one is to busy to be concerned. Death is a basic transcendental structure of your Being, humans are the only creatures in the universe that knows some day they must die. Wishing for it is a bit more structurally consistent than covering it up. But your thrown in to feeling the way you do, a throwness you can not get before. So accept your structured condition and choose from the way you feel it, don’t try to flee from it.
The public thinks it will never die. The language we share reflects this fleeing of death. So thinking about death, which involves the use of language is often an aversion of it. Feel your own death and within that mood choose what life you want to live.
That was a beautiful video. You make some of the best videos on youtube. I wonder if it is ethical to bring life into this world also, but at least your video brought me joy.
@@nothanks9503 Everyone can do better I suppose. It's probably whether you did good or bad. Maybe the subjective ego goes away and you're left to confront who you really are objectively with out any defences. No repression, no amnesia, no justifications, no dissociation.
I'm not sure about this death drive, but throughout my entire life, from a child on, I've often struggled and had thoughts like, "Not being here would be better." I had a hard time understanding people's optimism for life, even now. Guess they have mostly that life drive. But for me, I feel like truly analyzing the world for what it is as a whole leads to the conclusion that pains do outweigh pleasures, as Schopenhauer recognized. And most of our pleasures are shortlived from moment to moment, or even lead to deeper pain, which always reaffirms my conclusions. I think optimistic people often shy away from the sheer pain of existence as a defense mechanism. It's overbearing for them to look at the ugliness of existence. So they talk themselves into "bubbly talk."
I look into systemic corruption and psychology every day. It's certainly baffling how many people have their heads buried in the sand ignoring atrocities or People that buy happiness with random consumerism. People are isolated and don't trust in each other. But we are physical beings, not some consciousness separate from everything. Our emotions dictate our logic just as our logic dictates emotions. Sometimes all I see is a burning fire that is our world's past and future. It's hard to even coax myself to do anything. Yet even with all the pain in the world, when I'm working with community, taking care of myself mentally and physically ECT I find life worth living. I don't believe in a god. But I still think the miracle of life is worth trying to preserve. Life doesn't have meaning and we're slaves to our condition. But that doesn't mean we can't make our own meanings and try to be more conscious and do what we can
It's not so much abandonment for me, as much it's disappointment. To be disappointed, to disappoint others. Alone, I can only be disappointed in myself. I can deal with that.
I feel both of you. I avoided relationships alot as a kid for fear of hurting them and being hurt. I prefer to be by myself alot but if people have similar interests I can tolerate being around them but not for a long time.
@@NIL0S yes !! That too! My fears of abandonment actually begin with Disappointment… My negative core beliefs are: -I’m a disappointment -Disappointment leads to being abandoned, either emotionally or physically. So, Eventually I will disappoint a person in my life that I’ve attached to. I’m not a clingy attachment style, I’m mostly an anxious and somewhat avoidant attachment style, so in play it cool but inside the fear of loss is equivalent to fear of death almost. And that disappointment will make them like/love me less (emotionally abandoning me) and then leave me one day. So now I isolate myself to just avoid all that inevitable pain.. but on the conscious level, I know all of that is not true and that the real danger is my isolation but my subconscious and core beliefs have hijacked the drivers seat, driving us over the cliffs thinking it’s keeping me safe lol and im trying to regain some control
This makes so much sense to me. I absolutely think biology has a part to play in it as well--think of all the animal species that are programmed to destroy themselves or their mates after certain events have transpired. I also think this drive has to be much more prominant in some humans than others, otherwise it wouldnt be so controversial. Fascinating. Im always looking for reasons to explain why i seem to want to die all the time 😃
Biology actually is a kind of simulation or game, everything is interconnected through relationship of life and death..Ouroboros, preservation of life, chaos is a human perception. A story, game woven in cosmic entertainment industry
I do not want to die all the time but there is a part of me that enjoys flirting with disaster. In putting myself in dangerous situations, throwing caution to the wind and saying '"f it", there is something truly badass and exhilarating about it. I've come close to death a few times and in those final seconds before either death or miracle, I felt a strange sense of calm and a kind of acceptance. That being said, I do have a slight fear of death at other times but this could relate more to the "unknown" aspect of it.
For a complimentary perspective I might recommend a Jungian psychoanalyst writer named Donald Kalsched who has written two brilliant insightful books related to early life trauma. His first book is The Inner World of Trauma Archetypal Defense of the Personal Spirit. It explores how early life trauma can act in unconscious ways that thwart our ability to manifest a healthy inner world leading to addiction, depression and yes the death wish. It does this through a self care system that though it may have aided us in early life it becomes a tyrannical inner presence that has seemingly its own life force. Anyway I highly recommend it for those wondering why they keep repeating the same destructive patterns their whole life. Be forewarned that sometimes greater truth brings greater frustration. It's one thing to know something intellectually and quite another to bring it down to an emotional level as I feel sure many of you know.❤
I grew up in and out of prison drug addict. Ed got clean and relapse, many times and got my life back together. I don’t think one little video is going to send me over the edge.
Thank you for your video. Being alone in a negative sense relating to the death drive scenario for me, is when I am not present, and get involved with thinking that is irrational. This happened a lot when I was left alone as a kid, for hours. It was and is now a very negative state, which I don’t wish to continue. I notice it as it is coming on, and get out of it by working out, being around others, cleaning the house and being kind towards myself.
I’m no expert but I think a lack of self love gives rise to self sabotage. I’m sure other things do too, but a lack of self love definitely does in my experience. I also believe that Unresolved inner pain drives us to self medicate or self isolate, or both. It also causes us to “go back” and revisit painful, negative feelings. These feelings, often generated by past trauma don’t just “go away.” They must be allowed to be, acknowledged, observed and accepted. In my experience, when I practice that, I find that eventually that pain and those uncomfortable feelings simply pass by/float away. Much like a cloud does. I’m learning not to go “chasing clouds!” Namaste. 🙏
I think your introspection is laudable, and is many steps past lying on a couch with someone asking about your mother. What you said here affirms what I've thought for many years.
@@minkorrhBeing in therapy and self acceptance are not necessarily mutually exclusive. It depends whether the motivation is self loathing or self care.
I don't think love--even self love--is something good in and of itself. There are many things about each of us that we ought to hate. I can't for the life of me understand how you could possibly have complete self-love and not be victim of complacency. The minute you have only self love and have shed all self hatred is the minute that you actually are dead. I don't want anyone to die, but I don't see why you would have nothing but self love and then have any motivation to do anything but sit there and rot. Without acknowledging your deficiencies, there can be no motivation for improvement--or becoming more than what you are. If you're not becoming more--improving, then how can you possibly be in a state of enjoying who you are--who you are to become? There cannot be self love without self hatred--not because hatred makes you appreciate love, but instead because you're limiting the potential of who you might become.
@@NicholasRees-ic8jx I personally believe unconditional, gracious love is a much healthier motivator. I certainly wouldn’t hate my child for their shortcomings. That doesn’t mean I don’t acknowledge their shortcomings and immaturity, I do. Same for myself. But with, patience, kindness and acceptance of the present condition. Self Love doesn’t motivate me to go into denial or complacency, it motivates me to keep growing and have some joy during the process. ✌️
@@WorkingMan1177 Why would your child have a desire to change if you didn't express your dissatisfaction with their behavior? I'm not saying that you got to beat your child for doing something wrong--far from it. However, I see no reason to express love for something that you clearly have disgust for. If you see a shortcoming, then that is literally something that you do not like--and it ought to be expressed. That's not unconditional love--far from it. As I see it, the idea of unconditional love is nonsensical and inherently self-refuting, and I don't see how you're doing anything except asserting that self love is a greater motivator. Wishing something to be true does not make it true.
Shoutout to however produced this. The background track is PERFECT for the subject matter and is at a perfect level where it draws you in and enhances the experience by making the content more engaging while avoiding being obnoxious and distracting. Tik tok content creators, THIS is how you do it
i think a part not being discussed is the programming that comes along with trauma. it trains, or programs you to believe something traumatic is normal
As one with mental illness I have one main theory with Death Drive… some of us lack the innate lust for life, be it by some genetic deficiency or environmental trauma. And I can’t help but feel like maybe we use the Death Drive to actually find that lacking lust or desire for life. When ya exist in a feeling of nonexistence, meaningless or numbness akin to a walking corpse… well maybe becoming aware of mortality, actually embracing one’s ability to die through intimate dances with danger, one finds a true desire to live. I mean dead things can’t die, and if ya feel as though ya are living death then ya can’t truly engage with nor enjoy and embrace life as a living creature. But awareness of one’s ability to die forces one to accept their status as living and perhaps ignites to desire to preserve that… just ponderings based on my own experience and perhaps full of shit but worth noting
well said!!! Embracing the ability to die I think also leads to the acceptance of suffering in the present & (ultimately/hopefully) taking ownership over it and therefore your own life. so this to me, means: acceptance of death => acceptance of ongoing suffering => ownership of our temporary life Miyamoto Musashi wrote "generally speaking, the way of the warrior is the resolute acceptance of death". I think he is right here, be it man or woman, it takes a warrior's fighting spirit to bear the suffering which ignites the will to die. This philosophy (I guess you could call it) has me in the gym. Has me taking down my hoodie in pouring rain.. to remind myself to accept it & try my best to live on. but feel free to excuse my waffle & crack pot talk.. there is clearly something to this imo.
You’re not mentally ill. You figured out how to access Memento Mori. Read your last few sentences. Lean into that as your source of power. Then evolve it into the authentic and authoritative version of what you believe yourself to envy in others. Use the genuine stoic version.
I ponder this concept a lot, as I go through bouts of low emotion due to my circumstance and the ways I've suffered to get ahead but ultimately lost all my progress multiple times into my late 30's due to reasons out of my control. A lot of my friends have self deleted, and the only reason I havn't is because of my religious upbringing and physical appearance that has granted me access to a lot of women. I've never considered self deletion as a means of ending my suffering, but I do often wish that I could just not exist. A mantra I keep close to me that always revamps my enthusiasm is the concept of how unlikely it is that I were to be born in this era. Being 36, I got to witness all of modern's technological advancement, and in that same time I've observed the cultural family structure unravel to the point where I know for certain that in 20 years the family structure will become a government who controls it's herd of dumbed down citizens. For this I want to make it as far as I can, so I can share the information I've watched to those born to a new form of society with lack of historical reference. Mental toughness is hard, no matter how down you get, you always have to BELIEVE, not think, but know for certain, that you will make it up again, even if you don't have the answers now, you simply have to put one foot infront of the other every day, until opportunities show up for you to take advantage of. Also life sometimes just isn't fair and you have to accept that you might just die in a car crash before you achieve your goals, and that's how it goes.
It’s crazy that freuds thoughts are so relevant today. How he talks about listening to a sad song. I also relate to addiction and going back to things I say I hate over and over. Like two entities live within me simultaneously.
It's a gift to be young and in good health; to be devoid of pain , both physically and mentally. Losing that makes one wish for death. 'If the game isn't fun any more, switch it off.'
Your comment reminds me of a quote I saw that read “ A man can die at 25 and won’t be buried until he’s 75.” It signifies that life ends quick long before death arrives. The only thing that’s living between that gap is the death drive through habitual escapism.
00:00-3:10 the death drive 15:38-16:08 the death drive > seeking relief from life’s tensions; peace 18:08-18:24 the death drive as a manifestation of thoughts arisen by society
I appreciate this video. Rather than attempting to discuss solutions & teach lessons for how to be better, taking the time to discuss destructive tendencies satisfies my desire for life saving truth & facing my shadow despite it's efforts to stay locked up. To have this topic laid out like this is masterful; not that I expect anything less from this wonderful channel.
How do you personally cope with a darker part of yourself that wants to express itself in socially unacceptable ways? Currently struggling with this myself
The death drive isn't real. Evolutionarily it can't exist. Instead, this phenomenon you're describing is simply still the pleasure drive. It only takes on this extreme from when one's life is so terrible there is no pleasure, then death seems like the ultimate step to finding peace at last. Also, in the case of masochism, look up the definition. It's seeking PLEASURE from pain. Same as listening to sad music. You're feeling something. Sadness yes, but you are still feeling one of the great aspects of life: Feelings... Which you clearly value more than numbness or else you would not listen to feel them.
Why can’t it exist exactly? Being fittest may mean dying at the right time. Apoptosis keeps you alive by killing the individual cell. It makes perfect evolutionary sense that a death drive may exist in a larger organism.
You are mistaken that evolutionarily it can't exist--it absolutely can, and does. I suggest you look into the sizeable research that exists on animal species with self-destruction built into their genetics.
As a miserable man I can assure you that I'm a pain seeker, of course, but I also seek those painful moments through some pleasure such as drugs and stuff. So, with that in mind I don't see two different aspects of human behavior, hedonism and self destruction, I just see one and it's the same thing.
Where a lot of people get it wrong is assuming that all pleasures are in service of things that support life. Some things like drug abuse can actually be more likely to lead to death, but they give pleasure just the same. It's not even as simple as that. Some things simultaneously lead to life and death. On the individual level, the most pleasurable foods to eat are often "junk foods," which provide some nutrients necessary for life (caloric energy if nothing else), but at the same time when frequently consumed can lead to disease and death from excess sugars, fats, etc. On the level of life as a species, reproduction (or simply sexual gratification) has its risks, especially for women. It sometimes happens that in trying to bring one new individual into the world, a preexisting individual is taken out of it (often taking the new-person-to-be out with her).
Artie Shopenhaur cracks me up. He's my favorite. In his old age when he finally achieved some noteriety,a young admirer came to visit. He asked Artie," If it's so miserable,why do you endure it?". He replied,"Because it's so fascinating!".
I have been on a path of self destruction last 30 years.... finally after 6 months of therapy I realized my Death Drive which I never let go off since I was 10 years old...
The David Benatar quote about fearing children suffering in their life is pretty spot on for me. It has kept me up regularly since my first child was born. All a parent can do is make their childhood good and try to raise children able to survive the trials ahead, ideally in a healthy way. I am also trying to raise them to not have my inherent recklessness.
I do not think there is a death drive, because the ones that are the most active in expressing the behavior you associate with death drive are also the ones that fear death the most. The longing to end the suffering is to me a much more plausibele explanation. And every addiction provides a relief to that anxiety, at least initially.
This is the comment I was looking for. *There is no such thing as Death Drive* . As for those people who choose to isolate themselves from others, many of them remain their own best friends. Nothing to do at all with wanting to end their lives.
To me death drive is the symptom of spiritual suffering. Just like how our body projects its issues out by showing abnormal conditions, our consciousness and spiritual form would give similar signals to alert you that something is wrong. Try to get to the bottom of your addictions and harmful behaviours, you'll understand what's wrong with you mentally. And yes, sometimes death drive don't mess with you, it instead pushes you into situations where others can hurt you/or you hurt others and be punished for the actions. It's like you're constantly in a mind game with your own consciousness, and the only way to win is to lose.
Began smoking 10 years ago as a plan to shorten my existence and can't abandon that plan even though I know things changed for the better because it is still not worth existing.
@@lancerussell755You don't get it bro, it's also not that rewarding. Life = snore. Not to mention the fact that you have no idea what other people have been through. Your privilege is showing.
🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation: 00:53 🧠 Sigmund Freud proposed two opposing drives: Eros (life drive) and Thanatos (death drive). The death drive suggests irrational, self-destructive tendencies in human behavior, leading to actions that can cause harm or violence. 04:35 💭 Freud observed repetitive, self-destructive behaviors in individuals, attributing them to a deeper unconscious desire for self-destruction. This drove him to propose the concept of the death drive. 05:38 ⚖️ While life is generally cherished, various philosophers like Schopenhauer, Benatar, and Cioran have emphasized the inherent suffering in life, advocating for the idea that non-existence may be preferable to existence. 11:10 💔 Freud's death drive suggests that there may be an unconscious force within humans that longs for annihilation, leading to behaviors like self-destruction and substance abuse as expressions of this inner longing. 14:54 🔁 Freud's concept of "repetition compulsion" highlights the tendency to repeat self-destructive patterns, even when they lead to further pain and tension, providing evidence for the existence of the death drive. 16:14 ⚔️ Freud believed the death drive also manifests as aggression towards others, representing a desire for destruction outside of oneself. He linked sadism and masochism to this concept, as expressions of the death drive. 18:32 🤔 The concept of the death drive challenges us to confront our self-destructive tendencies and consider whether they are driven by conditioning, trauma, or an inherent force longing for self-destruction or death. Made with HARPA AI
Top vid, cheers. I am 61, have no teeth, mainly from gritting them. I can only say, smile while you still have teeth. If you don't suffer you don't learn, ignorance is bliss. I kind of relate to Icarus as 'bipolar'. I never listen to sad music it is torture. But I am entirely self destructive, have anger for the outside world for being so dumb and not seeing what I see and completely isolate myself so I don't get hurt or hurt anyone else. Thoughts can be very dangerous, I look at it like a trai, a train of thought. Get off the bad thought train and get a new one add good thoughts to the engine. Good luck everyone, all I know is if you can laugh about it, whatever it is, even maniacally, 😅, it makes it better, as do trees and sunshine. Take care of your brains they were good enough to watch this, so you are sound 😊
Oh, man! This study really helps me! I'm amazed. I am at the juncture between wanting to live well and wanting oblivion. I like that you pose both as valid. Thank you for the video. It's already helping me. It will continue to affect me. My conclusion right now is that I want to want to enjoy my life. It'll take real effort to cultivate a good life again, but, for now, it's the opportunity before me! Thank you again for your thorough exploration of the crucial matters of thought, feeling, and decision.
5:41 - Terror management runs very deep. In this context, even just in childhood, having responsibilities of any kind is already a ward against the death drive. To see yourself as the guardian of your own well being and seeing your own well being as your responsibility, also a massive protection from it. All of these systems end up in confusion though if one finds themselves in a place where death would be preferable, especially in mid-life and even early adulthood. This is where people put such a distance on it, not only based on fear of death but death = failure, failure = bad, failure = status destruction, all of that rolls up.
Always believed that every human has a death wish, whether they realize it or not. It is beyond consciousness. The story of Icarus was always one of my favorites~
@@evadebruijnI agree 100%. Homesick is the best way to put it. I always felt the exact same way. I hope there’s a real “place” we all came from, but there could just be nothing after this 🤷♂️
I have been offline for a year and a bit now only have UA-cam to stay somewhat in the loop. I went through a stage where being alone was very difficult and I craved attention couldn’t be on my own. But as time passed I found some beautiful and comfort being alone, being with my thoughts understanding and realising who my true friends are and building strong relationships with the people around me. It’s okay to be alone pain is apart of the process of being the best version of you. Make sure you reach out if you need help good luck and lots of love.
I love this channel, always gives me something to think about. I imagine the "call of the void" might fit quite nicely within the definition of a death drive. Might even be one of the better examples, because it's one of the few times you have a chance to consciously recognize your own thought patterns. It's always a weird shock to the psycho-system that makes me think "why do I think that?"
This is quite pertinent. As a 55 year old man, I have a penchant for beer which only has manifested itself within the past 4 years, since my mother died, Dad was 9 years prior. I can drink 6-8 hi test beers per night (6-8% abv), even on a workday, and have often wondered if I'm doing it on purpose, as I know the results and issue that come with excessive alcohol consump[tion. This is a daily occurrence, and It needs to stop.
Bro. I’d stop. I was a severe alcoholic for 15 years…. 15-30 years old too, so my body was in its prime. It was the nastiest disease and one of the most MISERABLE ways a human can exist. I wouldn’t wish alcoholism on my very worst enemy. You will either die and quick, or have to get sober. Both are extremely painful. I’d pick ANY other drug than alcohol to abuse… just so you know.
I went through a hellish time when my wife and I divorced, she alienated my kids from me and took every measure she could to destroy me ,it would’ve been so easy just to buy alcohol and get wasted , but I chose to buy a new gravel bike and get fitter than ever , that’s the best middle finger to her and the system.
Our brains/bodies have not evolved to respond functionally to intense, prolonged painful stimulus like one is exposed to in war, military occupation, or genocide. We are stunting our collective development with these sorts of violences and we (and all other life) lose precious steps for becoming better than we currently are. An end to war, an end to polarization across various demographics, an end to constant extraction of the earth - these are necessary for our sustained life. I hope we collectively understand this as soon as possible.
I have been contemplating this concept in my entire career of self-destructive behaviors. I called it microsuicide dan then found out it was a real terminology used.
“But at the bottom, the immanent philosopher sees in the entire universe only the deepest longing for absolute annihilation, and it is as if he clearly hears the call that permeates all spheres of heaven: Redemption! Redemption! Death to our life! and the comforting answer: you will all find annihilation and be redeemed!” ― Philipp Mainländer, Die Philosophie der Erlösung
I have this drive very powerfully. It is held tightly to my curiosity. Insatiable hunger for knowledge. This is why I can't go just yet. I am so fortunate to exist at this time when I can explore, learn and create with this device I hold in my hand. Death is always here, smiling and offering her hand. I smile back.
Yes! True for me as well. I’ll spare you my long, painful backstory, but the only reason I keep deciding to “be here” really comes down to being curious what tomorrow looks like. I’ve learned to “weaponize” that curiousity against the SI and ramifications of major chronic medical burdens. Even if tomorrow comes and is as miserable as the last, holding out curiosity from what the next day may bring regardless. It’s one thing I can say to those younger than me to urge them to hang in there. Life can throw some terrible curveballs, but there are also good people out there willing to help “lift you up” if you ask for help. One woman (a stranger then) unexpectedly helped me out and was incredibly generous to me, at a time when I thought it was all over, and she helped “prove” to me that, in darkest times, it was worth it to hold on and be curious for better days and chance for something new, relief from physical & mental pain, or another fleeting moment of contentment. Today, I’m happy to have connected with your comment about the effect of curiosity on this mentality, and that I’m not alone in that sentiment. Even if I don’t choose to end things, my incurable brain & spine tumor might any day w/o warning. With the pain and symptoms it can be hard to be grateful to still be alive sometimes, but curiosity, that comes much easier. ❤
One concept that always comes to mind when speaking on the subject of death is that of Ernest Becker, and The Denial of Death. I'm wondering how the two concepts of death drive and death denial can work within the same frame of metaphysics. Has anyone talked about that? Great video, it's going to have me thinking for many hours to come!
Denial of Death is often the tandem of an amazing high you get from seeking thrills. Just knowing when to stop is what's crucial! Some just don't, or they're bad at weighing out the pros and cons 😅😝
@@Smelly-water Being impulsive when it comes to anything. Prime example being something as simple as gambling, taking a narcotic, it's like people say to themselves "Oh, I'll only do it once", or "It's nothing major", then they get a little high, and it becomes addiction to them, where they're haemorrhaging money, or life...
Thank you for this. I have new understanding about why it is so hard to be human. It is the pervasive tension that makes me want to be inert. I will look into the thinkers you mention here. I am a big Schopenhauer fan already. What a grump!
Boom, you drop the bomb of loneliness and social isolation right at the end. I was feeling all smug and detached. Surely my circumstance is the result of measures beyond my control. But now I’m going to have to review my choices
This was my introduction to your content. Technology is too invasive, and this was recommended to me. I'm 40 and I struggle pretty hard with drugs and alcohol, I'm rather blasted currently to be honest. Nonetheless I'm commenting that with what I already told you about myself, that this did seem to naturally resonate with me. I'll be sure to catch more of your vids, thank you.
3:00 struggling mentally? It's my life story. Bring it on... I'm not pulling the plug on life only because I know that my perception is totally falsified, so... I learn to function along with my brain chemical imbalance, knowing that I can't trust no one to really understand my own demise.
Went to a metaphysical therapist once who opened me to the concept of being happy for sad and sad for happy. It explains itself if you think about it as a subconscious drive. That there be fulfillment at the prospect of pain and destruction as well as feeling bereft when the joys of life come. She meant it was a curse.
@@krampusthunderstick3729 that's all the information you can offer, maybe it's not a subconscious drive but what else is under the surface making us act in ways we're not aware. Only on the subconscious can happy be made sad.
When I have depression episodes I realize that I live in reality again. People that never have trouble with it live in dream world chasin hedonism. But at some point we all realize what life is about: suffering.
I have in the past... The main solutions for me are nature, creativity (art or music), and exercise. You can even mix them together! Just try to think outside your box. The Tao de Ching is immensely helpful with that IMHO Cheers
Suffering through depression myself for a while, but I was able to ignore it after I got into a relationship which I can only explain as extremely blissful. Well either way no matter how good my partner was, I never changed and my mental state and it ruined the relationship; causing its end. Even though I had so much, I still developed self destructive behavior. My depression is back and at an all time high, currently figuring out if I am weak enough to admit that I am not able to endure life’s smallest challenges.
I feel that living in the past is a form of death. The constant pursuit to consume things and relive old moments that once made you feel alive then just to numb you out now. Kind of what Dr. Joe Dispenza would say, living in old programming. When the world keeps spinning forward, you want to go backwards because the comforts of the past can’t hurt you. At this point, I want to look at death as a new beginning. Accept in full that the past is dead but not forget. Upgrade the new programming and have new experiences. Maybe doing past stuff in some moderation is fine, but living in it needs to be out of the question. Your video gave me more clarity on some real life stuff I’ve been dealing with. Thank you.
What Freud observed in those soldiers is called PTSD. There's also this thing called Complex PTSD. In CPTSD you don't have visual flashbacks you have emotional flashbacks. Just a smell or the tone in someone's voice can put you in a depressed, anxious, fearful, disgusted... state and you have now ideea what just happened or where that came from. It's a complex topic .... Pete Walker (if I remember correctly) wrote an amazing book about it.
Yes, Pete Walker is his name, the title is CPTSD from surviving to thriving. He has a disclaimer somewhere in the book that thriving is not in the cards for everyone, no matter how hard they work on healing. So I guess it is back to acceptance again? I'm still not sure what I truly think/feel about the quote but it intrigues me: Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. Other highly recommended authors on cptsd are Judith Herman (iirc she was the first) Bessel Vanderkolk and Gabor Mate. ✌️
Im terribly happy with my life, but also the thought of death gives me a lot of peace. At the end of an argument with someone, my mantra to let all the tension go is thinking, "one day I will die", and that kinda flushes the accumulated energy from the discussion. I feel we are used to fear death because of indoctrination , but regardless of it being an after life, or just dissolving into the universe, it sounds peaceful. I loved this video.
Nice vid. The thing you missed about death is fundamentally, that death does not bring relief. One does not *feel* the absence of pain, and with that, peace and relief. People have the tendency to imagine a weight falling off of them, as if to be released from their burdens. However death does not give this release. You may simply suffer until you are gone.
What’s always kept me optimistic about living is the fact that I am conscious, I can think, and I can feel. I can wonder about life and reality’s many curious quirks. If I am dead, I can’t do any of those things. Who’s to say I wouldn’t wish to go back to living once I am dead, should I be given the chance to have that wish? I am young, so I look forward to a long and memorable life. Internal and external expectations of me are slowly killing me though. Wish me good fortune and health.
"Returning to the inanimate" that is a very good way of putting it. We are all born from the interstellar dust of dying stars, and it is there we shall return someday. No pain, no awareness, but in fact, nothingness. Although personally, the fact that some of the molecules/atoms that were once me might someday provide light, life, and hope by way of being a star is comforting.
My death drive is so strong. I just realized that the reason I went through so much trauma is that I gave up on myself and felt like it doesn’t matter because I’m already broken. You can say that my need for validation has led me to places I wouldn’t go with a gun😂 I’m doing much better now, I feel like I cracked the code to letting go of trauma.
From one recovering addict to (it sounds like) another, thank you for this video and the example of addiction as a possible manifestation of the death drive. I never knew there was literature on the matter, but it’s something that I personally noted throughout my life, particularly in addiction, but also preceding the use of drugs. I wasn’t usually suicidal exactly, but I always had a drive towards death. It’s with me still at 40, but it’s less noticeable.
My view on why people go out of their way to cause more pain is because their unconscious is trying to force them to look at the pain to resolve it. Dealing with my childhood trauma has been like this. It becomes less painful the more I confront and alter my view of my past. Before, it was always overpowering and I would try to avoid it but it just turned into chronic insomnia because my brain didn't want to lose consciousness and be beholden to stressful dreams telling me I had damage I needed to repair. I think this is also why people continue dating terrible people. There is something inside them that is trying to work through the pain and problems but the conscious is actively distracting out of fear of the pain. Find the traumas that are lurking deep inside, the traumas you try to escape. Re-analyze them from the safety of the future moment and diminish their power. That is the only way I have found to remove this death drive or depression.
Talking about death drive, it could very well be stemming either from a traumatic incident or straight up boredom from life. The latter may sound a bit absurd, but it is true, infact much worse. When you have learnt so much about life and nothing really seems to interest you anymore, especially if you have lost your faith, the tendency to indulge in such behaviours is likely to change. Finding a strong and meaningful purpose may help, however as Albert Camus stated, “The soul who suffers too much develops a taste for misfortune.” If you have reached that point, it is best to seek help. When you stop finding a point in it, seek help from a professional. That is all that can help.
The logical error in the drive towards death to avoid suffering, is that we make suffering itself wrong. When we can stand apart from our experiences of suffering, and watch them from a meta state of observer awareness, it’s much like watching a dramatic movie- we experience the drama of the movie, but we know we aren’t the movie. Why be so enthralled into our story? Today I’m experiencing sadness… I watch myself experiencing sadness-I ask myself If I want to experience sadness- I realize that my sadness is based on specific opinions or beliefs- I realize that I can change those beliefs if I don’t want to experience sadness. - We are too immersed in our movie to remember that we are actually the watcher of the movie.
Very well said, thank you. This is exactly how I deal with life, too...observing myself from outside, and not getting swallowed up by whatever negative emotion comes along.
00:53 Icarus' flight towards the sun may not have been just youthful impulsiveness; Sigmund Freud introduced the concept of the death drive, suggesting humans have irrational, self-destructive tendencies. 03:13 Freud observed a human tendency to replicate and repeat traumatic events, even before World War I, leading to the idea of the death drive, an unconscious desire for self-destruction. 06:08 While most cultures value life, there's inherent suffering in existence; thinkers like Buddha, Cioran, and Schopenhauer explored the idea that life may not be as desirable as we think. 10:48 Freud's death drive is an unconscious force that longs for annihilation and non-existence, alongside the conscious desire to survive and thrive. 12:34 The death drive isn't just a direct wish for non-existence but manifests in irrational forms of destructiveness, including repetition compulsion and aggression toward others. 18:32 The concept of the death drive challenges us to confront our self-destructive tendencies and the irrationality behind them, with ongoing debates and interpretations by various thinkers.
I think most of those philosophers were depressed. During my depressive episodes i think life is suffering, i'd be glad to not exist. But during my happy episodes i enjoy life, even the most simple things
I feel the death drive! Sometimes when I meditate I try to be in a kind of "void" of no thoughts, feeling, sensory input etc. Try to get as close to not existing as I can. I quite prefer it to being conscious, having the responsibilities of life, etc. Jung would have a field day with me.
Wow..just...Wow!, literally the most important video I have ever witnessed on UA-cam. It looks at our shadows deepest spark of thought. Is this 'game' worth it in this moment? A question so unsettling most never dare to Glace at it, let alone analyze that which is in all of us. Respect!😮
It's a question worth answering! Overcome your fear of death and you can truly be alive in this finite experience! Samurai used to meditate on their death every day. I think that's how they lived so fearlessly!
@@MattAngiono, I truly agree, if You go deep enough into it _ you find only freedom and a joy for a real unfettered life. It's hard to explain to certain people's but having death as a true friend makes every day a gift! That's the real brain scrambler...but we learn from dichotomy, that's a key, and if you want to know life... know it's twin. 🤠
I tend to think isolation is a protection mechanism to avoid further hurt from or to others.
classic hedgehog dilemma
Yes😊😊😊
🤝
Hell is other people 😊
💯
“No one recovers from the disease of being born, a deadly wound if there ever was one.”
― Emil Cioran
I bet he hated his mother.
why? @@Em-mr6wu
@@lovethyneibor22736 Because this very wise thinker in the youtube comments said so. Also a psichiatrist, able to determine someones trauma only through a phrase.
😀@@repolhoazulado1028
I'm pretty sure Cioran had good relationships with his parents despite his philosophical views about birth and life
@@repolhoazulado1028
My guy, my mental struggle is precisely why I’m watching this video
Poor guy
We all experience this. Pls hit the gym it does help. The shadow realm. Is coming soon enough. Be the best version of you for now.
Improve your diet drink more water go for a nap.
After that for a walk.
Same lol😆
Do something physical, work or go to a gym. Move your muscles and don’t dwell on your thoughts. You are creating your thoughts and emotions. Just observe your thoughts and don’t attach any danger to them.
Makes sense. When I was depressed and at my breaking point, I didn't want to die necessarily, I just didn't want to exist anymore because I was suffering so much in this existence.
I'm glad I stuck it out though. Ultimately I decided to make a drastic change before killing myself, which was to leave my old life behind to travel with no money and few possessions. Many shifts in perspective happened and I was able to come back to the old life as a new, more resilient self.
That’s exactly how I describe the state I’m in, I don’t want to kill myself but I don’t want to exist anymore. I’m not suicidal, I don’t dare to do such a thing but most importantly, I care way too much of the effect that would have on my children if I were to do it. sometimes I wish I could just give up and nobody would be affected by it.
Ultimately, Im more grateful I have reasons to exist. My kids existence has saved my life more than they will ever know
@@gmack. hitchhiking, busking (street musician in case you're unfamiliar with the term) for cash. It would be more appropriate to say "no savings" instead of "no money" in general. I only acquired money when I needed it.
How long and where'd you go? I had a similar journey and fell in love with all that travel. This is a phase of life that can bear tremendously rich fruit.
Youre an Alchemist. You are stronger than 99% of the rest. Just AMAZING!!!!
@@geekvinos down to Florida once and then back and forth across the US a few times. But I spent most of my time traveling up and down the west coast. I was on the road for about 2 years. It was the longest 2 years of my life in a good way.
"And I declared that the dead, who had already died, are happier than the living, who are still alive. But better than both is the one who has never been born, who has not seen the evil that is done under the sun."
-Bible
The book Ecclesiastes it's quite nihilistic, so I think that guy had a bias for a topic like this.
? @@kyonlupus3951
Reason to not have children, Islam wants world domination anyhow.
@@lovethyneibor22736Islam has no issue subjugating females, Catholics are against contraception, they seek power control and spawn large families. That's population creation. While plenty of westerners prefer to not to exist in poverty or be bothered with the mess and drag kids into it, religious people will still be here making babies for their cause.
the real question is:
would you bring ur own kids into a world full of religious breediots?
@@terrorists-are-among-us
I'm currently going through a major crisis and this video did more to help me and clear up some things than the last four and a half hours of several self-help and psychology videos.
My first step
Was accepting that I am not the first person to go through this
And they made it
So why can't I
Good luck with your struggles, and know that you aren't alone. Being able to express yourself, to yourself, or other people is a great help.
They're filling market interest
I'm with you! We struggle collectively, we must acknowledge that. But dont worry, this is just the cocoon state of metamorphosis.. darkness incubates growth of the soul! You will transcend!
How are you doing?
My survival actions are not about wanting to live or avoid death, they are about avoiding suffering and to a lesser extend, obtaining pleasure.
agree
Wanting to avoid suffering leads me to thoughts of death.
Nietzsche argued that humans do not avoid suffering, but seek it
“…joy is only a symptom of the feeling of attained power…one does not strive for joy…joy accompanies.”
@@lucre113it seems many women do .
Anyone who climbed high up on a mountain or building has at one time or another an idea or feeling of: "how about you jump from here" or "what will happen if you jump". In my experience and of others whom i talked about it, this happens not only when you feel down or depressed but also when youre feeling good. did anyone here experienced this?
Call of the Void
Interesting thought I haven’t ever quite thought “how about I jump” but I’ve always been petrified of heights and especially standing near balconies or railings because I’ve always had a weird feeling of not being able to trust myself to not slip off/have a weird urge to get closer to the ledge and lean my body over and fall to my death the closer I am to them and or if I touch a rail or balcony rail I start to get stressed and feel like either I’m going to get pushed over by someone or do it to myself and my body completely takes control over everything while my brain is stuck thinking wtf dont jump idiot? lol so I just avoid being anywhere near them now
I've experienced this. My boyfriend at the time had the keys to give him access to the roof of his 16 storey apartment building since he was on the board. We went up there to enjoy the views and he got on his stomach and lay near the edge to briefly look down at the street below. He asked if I was ok with laying next to him. I refused to go near the edge. I told him I would find a way to jump or roll off the edge if I stood that close. The urge was strong for some reason. My life was and still is great. Have good family, friends and relationship. I'm happy, financially doing well, enjoy my job, never had depression. Yet...I have that curiosity of what will happen next?
Dr. Edith Eva Eger's story described surviving the Holocaust due to her drive to live through curiosity. Wondering what was still in store for her life.
For me, this curiosity is sometimes linked to the opposite. More about knowing so much about this life and wondering what comes after it.
I think you can expand on this as a natural Human drive we have. We are self destructive by nature if you look at Humans as a whole. A specific "group" of people will oftentimes bring Humanity down as a whole in the aims to increase the standing of their "group" over others. The best example would be either of the World Wars and some of the worst results, nuclear armament.
By all intents and purposes self destruction is the most likely future of Humanity unless we can overcome what at least seems to be in our very nature.
Edit: This comment was before I watched the video btw
@@MonkeyLiggaScrumptiousNan Same here and a few others I know. I thought originally that it was a latent feeling from when we were tree dwellers jumping tree to tree as I am drawn to the edge but also fear it. Just going to the roof of a tall building provokes all sorts of contradictory feelings and impulses. Had an office on the 22nd floor. Kept the blinds closed almost always. To see another person on the top of another building doing some maintenance without a tether was too much. Old pictures of people working in perilous conditions on skyscrapers with little or no safety precautions taken is too much to look at and it gets worse with age. I would be paralyzed in certain situations.
I spent most of my life being self destructive. I've stopped, but it is a struggle to be kind to myself. So odd. Now I try to do things that will have a positive impact when I'm no longer here. Such as planting trees.
How is that being kind to yourself? It’s the equivalent of sending flowers to your own funeral attendees. Nice and all, but not really for you.
@@Vapourwear I do things that are kind to myself such as not drinking alcohol, respecting myself, spending time in nature, prioritizing sleep, etc. Doing things that will benefit others and the planet helps me because it adds meaning to my life .
@@higherlove8886 That is called conscious evolution.Your are breaking free from your "little-big me" identification and expanding and including all around : others, animals, plants ...
@@higherlove8886 Sou desu ne
@@higherlove8886this is great!
It really makes a difference for others!
I try as well.
Even just smiling at people especially those who need it (homeless, or look angry, etc)
I think the best thing for us all is to adopt veganism.
Think of the holocaust that happens every minute to innocent animals.
We could stop that!
And the byproduct would be feeling much nicer towards each other, knowing we aren't responsible for such harm to conscious creatures.
And think of how many trees we could plant then!
Like 80%of land use is for farming animals.
All that land could become forest and homes for many wild animals!
People often just feel better in this diet too!
The only downside is being aware and trying to convince others it's a worthy endeavor.
It can be depressing how people treat you for just wanting less suffering to happen to innocent animals (we are often the most hated people in the planet).
Still, I will never stop advocating because I truly believe it the next step in our awakening!
On a different note, I also think having a creative pursuit is highly important.
It's the opposite of self destructive!
I paint, do photography, and play music just for myself.
They make me much happier!
as someone who dealt with self destructive habits for way too long + mental illness. ive come to a point where i feel like i enjoy in self destructive habits and making myself feel like shit. which is why i even watched this but hey, this was quite enlightening
Hearing that there were philosophers that saw things the way I see them is refreshing. I never wanted kids because I could see how much suffering life has to offer
We don’t need ur children
Correct why bring in new life when the world is garbage anyway, humanity had it’s time and we failed.
To desire the absence of suffering is to desire the destruction of all things, everything is connected through a bond of both suffering of the soul and elation of the soul. Even if you wish to deny the world, the world will never deny you. Your flesh and bones will return to nothingness , the cycle, sure. But the universe is always moving , changing therefore if we bring that to its absolute conclusion you will still contribute to "suffering" by simply being, you WILL always come back and be *something* after all, so it makes no difference. But you harp to much on this side of the coin, life and death the natural and unatural, thanatos and Eros are something you must acquire in balance. Together. If you are weighed down by one side or the other, it will only perpeuate a cycle that continues to affect *you* (the royal YOU) even after your death, placing you into a cycle for eons you might not even be aware of. So to chose the future of humanity is only natural. And the future is something you cannot disassociate from.
@@Paradox1012If your parents wouldn't have had you then you wouldn't be you. Sure your energy would have become something else but it would not be you. So when people decide not to have children they are still sparring them the pointless suffering.
lol what a cope. cat woman. :D
The death drive is a subconscious drive to return to the one consciousness that is the center of all things.
proof?
@@JohnSmith-fo5cx Jesus H. Christ, proof of an eternal consciousness that permeates all things and is all? What a pillock. Go and read every religious text ever written. That's your PROOF. What an idiotic comment.
@@JohnSmith-fo5cxbruh, are you serious? Source: he made it up
yes, this might well be
@@JohnSmith-fo5cx You can’t disprove a negative claim regarding metaphysics. People who lean on materialist science for some reason don’t disregard all of science in physics because science can’t prove that there was nothing before the Big Bang. But I would suggest watching some of philosopher Bernardo Kastrups videos/discussions here on YT. He makes logical arguments for the world being mental instead of actual physical stuff.
What Freud said about the ' death drive' is true for all humans, be you rich or poor. I find the concept both easy to understand but complex at the same time. What really come to my mind is Pink Floyd 's " comfortably numb" .Thanks Einzelganger, hope you are doing good.
I'll tell you one thing. Life is much better rich
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@@lorenzog7811 Yes, if the rich are a psychopath. I personally won't be able to bare the weight of guilt, knowing I exploit, scam, and manipulate people to get rich. Probably will down in alcoholism.
@@daddy6757 ill take the money thanks. This world is a shit hole might as well enjoy it with money. Without it youre nothing but a slave. Not my fault "God" made it this horrible way
Ah there is a reason Roger Waters, freely and fearlessly express his opinion.
I use to be very happy go lucky. Then I began getting deep into smoking weed at 22 and drinking. I’ve never been the same. I’m no longer happy nor lucky. I’ve just screwed my life up time and time over in the last 5 years. So many mistakes financially, physically, and socially. I’m about to be 11 months sober but the damage is done. I’ve dug a real deep hole and I fear never making it out. I had a bright future. I really fucked up. Please, don’t do drugs. Being strong and healthy is the best thing you can do for yourself. The rest will follow if you take care of your health and then maybe we wouldn’t wonder if we would be better off dead. Exercise, read, eat your vitamins and say your prayers.
@willcross5512 I started smoking weed at 17 but it got out of control from 22-27. Made a lot of bad decisions and got behind in life. I was born and raised in the hood and feel ashamed that I haven’t been able to get out. Gang violence all around. I’m 5’10 but last year got way over weight. I blew up to 250 lbs. In a short amount of time. I’m now 190 but I have stretch marks all over. Everywhere. The ones on my stomach hurt me the most because even if I ever get back into shape, get all cut and lean then I’ll still have these ugly stretch marks on my abs. Not to mention everywhere else. I can’t even look at my arms or thighs without getting depressed and anxious because I can’t help but to be reminded about the mistake I made of gaining so much weight. I feel so unattractive. I know it’s vain but still. Before I felt like I could get any women in the world even if it wasn’t true. I guess you can say I’m a pretty handsome guy but now I feel hideous since I’m out of shape and have stretch marks everywhere. Im broke as shit. In huge debt with high interest rates. No car. Live with my parents but my dad hates me. Siblings not too fond of me anymore either. My mom, idk, she’s my mom but I know it’s not like before anymore. I have periodontal disease because I failed to take care of my oral health during the last 5 years of going off the rails smoking every day and eating like shit. Idk man I know I still have a lot to be grateful for and I listen to and read lots of motivational inspirational things but I’m just so ashamed of who I am and what I’ve become. It’s so embarrassing. I use to be an athlete. Lean. Responsible. But I just got out of control with the drugs and partying and haven’t amounted to anything so far. I have a bachelors. But haven’t really done shit with it. I’m going to be 28 at the end of the year and just feel like a fucking loser. Thank you for your insight though. It means a lot. You have definitely been through the ringer. I just feel like I’ve fucked myself up way too much at this point. It’s like I’ve said game over because I’m no longer physically attractive. The stretch marks really traumatized me and I fear never recovering from that. In all honestly that’s what bugs me the most and I know it’s pathetic. I’m balding a bit too. But nothing too crazy yet. But yeah I feel I threw my 20s away and my looks are gone too cus my skin is all fucked up.
@@scoobydooby6180the only way is up my brother. We all start somewhere, its time to start. For better or for worse. Make a change. You will thank yourself later, trust me. Work out, get fresh air, read. Who cares what anybody thinks…I know it sounds cliche but its very true. This change will be for you and only you. Head up chest out one day at a time. You’ve got this, I believe in you.
@@scoobydooby6180 Ayo thats pretty much me as well so at least know you not alone. At the end of the day it is what it is better start changing now than later. And we gotta let go of being attractive there are a lot of guys out here that never know what its like to be sought after at least you did. Find joy in other things in life
@@scoobydooby6180 Be kind to yourself, forgive yourself. Its all in your head.
As with all things profound, the intellect complicates as well as elucidates. People aren't designed. Rather we are the emergent consequence of a number of "successful" systems. It makes total sense to want to live, to fight for your life but simultaneously feel so weary that you'd be happy if it were all over. People are not rational actors
I love the quotation marks with successful 😄👍
Natalist: Nothing is better than being alive.
Antinatalist: Yes, nothing IS better than being alive.
I literally stood up and clapped. This is genius 👏
@@sebastianelytron8450 It's witty, but not genius. Genius is realizing that no physical body has experienced nothingness, so they could not genuinely market the experience.
☠🎶💥😜...yes
Pls explain the difference 😭
I'd rather feel than not, I'd rather breathe than not, I'd rather grow slowly if not at all, when i die I'll wither, not feel, rot. Find something.
yes i think self isolation is a manifestation of death drive…i found my peace with death a long time ago when i watched my dad, my only secure attachment, die when i was 12. he taught me to make peace with his dying while he himself was making peace with it. i have never been afraid of death, but since pandemic i have embraced it more as a good thing that i look forward to, and its no coincidence ive been self isolating. i dont honestly enjoy life, but i try to make the best of it as long as i have to be here.
Sorry
I feel the exact same way. I really never enjoyed life much tbh. But these days, I absolutely hate it. Nothing in this world brings me any happiness anymore
@@oldmanhendo7183
Same here ! How do you get going?
@@lobiaking8318 I’m trying lately just to really get into some of my hobbies. It’s the only thing that at least brings me a little excitement
I watched a movie about a virus and was more disturbed by it than being in hospital because of covid, having lung inflammation and problems breathing. There was a dead body on the floor next to bathroom, people seemed to be mad at the guy for being dead. Nurses were smoking 🚬 in some room on the floor (Eastern Europe).We would close window because it was cold, they would open it every time. They gave me wrong medication, i didn't care. It was so silly.
As someone who struggles with the whole living thing. This made me feel so much better and would go as far as saying cheered me up. This explained something I have always felt but could never put into words
Me too I guess. I suppose it is also a topic of taboo. Telling someone that you would prefer to not exist often often raises concerns with people. They try to convince you that there is so much to live for.
It is actually fear of death. Everyone is anxious about their own certain death. They flee it, in to everyday banality, where one is to busy to be concerned. Death is a basic transcendental structure of your Being, humans are the only creatures in the universe that knows some day they must die. Wishing for it is a bit more structurally consistent than covering it up. But your thrown in to feeling the way you do, a throwness you can not get before. So accept your structured condition and choose from the way you feel it, don’t try to flee from it.
The public thinks it will never die. The language we share reflects this fleeing of death. So thinking about death, which involves the use of language is often an aversion of it. Feel your own death and within that mood choose what life you want to live.
That was a beautiful video. You make some of the best videos on youtube. I wonder if it is ethical to bring life into this world also, but at least your video brought me joy.
I imagine that when I'm dying, I will be happy and relieved that the horrors of life will evaporate along with my own existence.
Reminds me of my theory that heaven and hell exist in the last moments of life
@@nothanks9503wonder if that results from whether one has a good conscience or a bad conscience 🤔
@@alextomlinson yeah like final moment when you look back at your life will you think to yourself “I did good” or “I could have done better”
@@nothanks9503 Everyone can do better I suppose. It's probably whether you did good or bad. Maybe the subjective ego goes away and you're left to confront who you really are objectively with out any defences. No repression, no amnesia, no justifications, no dissociation.
@@alextomlinson Yeah I mean you don’t need the defense strategies anymore if you’re dying
“Oh, yeah.
Life goes on…
long after the ‘thrill’
of livin’ is gone.”
-John Cougar
Melloncamp
I'm not sure about this death drive, but throughout my entire life, from a child on, I've often struggled and had thoughts like, "Not being here would be better." I had a hard time understanding people's optimism for life, even now. Guess they have mostly that life drive. But for me, I feel like truly analyzing the world for what it is as a whole leads to the conclusion that pains do outweigh pleasures, as Schopenhauer recognized. And most of our pleasures are shortlived from moment to moment, or even lead to deeper pain, which always reaffirms my conclusions. I think optimistic people often shy away from the sheer pain of existence as a defense mechanism. It's overbearing for them to look at the ugliness of existence. So they talk themselves into "bubbly talk."
Rose colored glasses……
I look into systemic corruption and psychology every day.
It's certainly baffling how many people have their heads buried in the sand ignoring atrocities or People that buy happiness with random consumerism. People are isolated and don't trust in each other.
But we are physical beings, not some consciousness separate from everything. Our emotions dictate our logic just as our logic dictates emotions.
Sometimes all I see is a burning fire that is our world's past and future. It's hard to even coax myself to do anything.
Yet even with all the pain in the world, when I'm working with community, taking care of myself mentally and physically ECT I find life worth living. I don't believe in a god. But I still think the miracle of life is worth trying to preserve.
Life doesn't have meaning and we're slaves to our condition. But that doesn't mean we can't make our own meanings and try to be more conscious and do what we can
100% feel that.
@@RayneNikolevery valid points
“To bear children into this world is like carrying wood to a burning house.”
― Peter Wessel Zapffe
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sounds like a morbid joke lol
@@melissabadaoui986 spammer
Well how else are you going to rebuild it after it burns down?
@@melissabadaoui986💩💩☣️
If I am alone, no one can abandon me.
My fear of abandonment is so deeply ingrained in me that I overlook the real dangers in order to avoid it
It's not so much abandonment for me, as much it's disappointment. To be disappointed, to disappoint others. Alone, I can only be disappointed in myself. I can deal with that.
I feel both of you. I avoided relationships alot as a kid for fear of hurting them and being hurt. I prefer to be by myself alot but if people have similar interests I can tolerate being around them but not for a long time.
@@NIL0S yes !! That too! My fears of abandonment actually begin with Disappointment…
My negative core beliefs are:
-I’m a disappointment
-Disappointment leads to being abandoned, either emotionally or physically.
So, Eventually I will disappoint a person in my life that I’ve attached to. I’m not a clingy attachment style, I’m mostly an anxious and somewhat avoidant attachment style, so in play it cool but inside the fear of loss is equivalent to fear of death almost. And that disappointment will make them like/love me less (emotionally abandoning me) and then leave me one day.
So now I isolate myself to just avoid all that inevitable pain.. but on the conscious level, I know all of that is not true and that the real danger is my isolation but my subconscious and core beliefs have hijacked the drivers seat, driving us over the cliffs thinking it’s keeping me safe lol and im trying to regain some control
This makes so much sense to me. I absolutely think biology has a part to play in it as well--think of all the animal species that are programmed to destroy themselves or their mates after certain events have transpired. I also think this drive has to be much more prominant in some humans than others, otherwise it wouldnt be so controversial. Fascinating. Im always looking for reasons to explain why i seem to want to die all the time 😃
How interesting.
Biology actually is a kind of simulation or game, everything is interconnected through relationship of life and death..Ouroboros, preservation of life, chaos is a human perception. A story, game woven in cosmic entertainment industry
I do not want to die all the time but there is a part of me that enjoys flirting with disaster. In putting myself in dangerous situations, throwing caution to the wind and saying '"f it", there is something truly badass and exhilarating about it. I've come close to death a few times and in those final seconds before either death or miracle, I felt a strange sense of calm and a kind of acceptance. That being said, I do have a slight fear of death at other times but this could relate more to the "unknown" aspect of it.
For a complimentary perspective I might recommend a Jungian psychoanalyst writer named Donald Kalsched who has written two brilliant insightful books related to early life trauma. His first book is The Inner World of Trauma Archetypal Defense of the Personal Spirit. It explores how early life trauma can act in unconscious ways that thwart our ability to manifest a healthy inner world leading to addiction, depression and yes the death wish. It does this through a self care system that though it may have aided us in early life it becomes a tyrannical inner presence that has seemingly its own life force. Anyway I highly recommend it for those wondering why they keep repeating the same destructive patterns their whole life. Be forewarned that sometimes greater truth brings greater frustration. It's one thing to know something intellectually and quite another to bring it down to an emotional level as I feel sure many of you know.❤
🙏 thnx for sharing 👍
Does the book also give advice on how to get over it and start actually living life?
Thanks. 💙
I grew up in and out of prison drug addict. Ed got clean and relapse, many times and got my life back together. I don’t think one little video is going to send me over the edge.
Thank you for your video. Being alone in a negative sense relating to the death drive scenario for me, is when I am not present, and get involved with thinking that is irrational. This happened a lot when I was left alone as a kid, for hours. It was and is now a very negative state, which I don’t wish to continue. I notice it as it is coming on, and get out of it by working out, being around others, cleaning the house and being kind towards myself.
I'm exactly the same, friend. Consistent routine and habits staves off the existential dread.
I’m no expert but I think a lack of self love gives rise to self sabotage. I’m sure other things do too, but a lack of self love definitely does in my experience. I also believe that Unresolved inner pain drives us to self medicate or self isolate, or both. It also causes us to “go back” and revisit painful, negative feelings. These feelings, often generated by past trauma don’t just “go away.” They must be allowed to be, acknowledged, observed and accepted. In my experience, when I practice that, I find that eventually that pain and those uncomfortable feelings simply pass by/float away. Much like a cloud does. I’m learning not to go “chasing clouds!” Namaste. 🙏
I think your introspection is laudable, and is many steps past lying on a couch with someone asking about your mother. What you said here affirms what I've thought for many years.
@@minkorrhBeing in therapy and self acceptance are not necessarily mutually exclusive. It depends whether the motivation is self loathing or self care.
I don't think love--even self love--is something good in and of itself. There are many things about each of us that we ought to hate. I can't for the life of me understand how you could possibly have complete self-love and not be victim of complacency. The minute you have only self love and have shed all self hatred is the minute that you actually are dead. I don't want anyone to die, but I don't see why you would have nothing but self love and then have any motivation to do anything but sit there and rot.
Without acknowledging your deficiencies, there can be no motivation for improvement--or becoming more than what you are. If you're not becoming more--improving, then how can you possibly be in a state of enjoying who you are--who you are to become?
There cannot be self love without self hatred--not because hatred makes you appreciate love, but instead because you're limiting the potential of who you might become.
@@NicholasRees-ic8jx I personally believe unconditional, gracious love is a much healthier motivator. I certainly wouldn’t hate my child for their shortcomings. That doesn’t mean I don’t acknowledge their shortcomings and immaturity, I do. Same for myself. But with, patience, kindness and acceptance of the present condition. Self Love doesn’t motivate me to go into denial or complacency, it motivates me to keep growing and have some joy during the process. ✌️
@@WorkingMan1177
Why would your child have a desire to change if you didn't express your dissatisfaction with their behavior?
I'm not saying that you got to beat your child for doing something wrong--far from it. However, I see no reason to express love for something that you clearly have disgust for. If you see a shortcoming, then that is literally something that you do not like--and it ought to be expressed. That's not unconditional love--far from it.
As I see it, the idea of unconditional love is nonsensical and inherently self-refuting, and I don't see how you're doing anything except asserting that self love is a greater motivator.
Wishing something to be true does not make it true.
Shoutout to however produced this. The background track is PERFECT for the subject matter and is at a perfect level where it draws you in and enhances the experience by making the content more engaging while avoiding being obnoxious and distracting. Tik tok content creators, THIS is how you do it
i think a part not being discussed is the programming that comes along with trauma. it trains, or programs you to believe something traumatic is normal
As one with mental illness I have one main theory with Death Drive… some of us lack the innate lust for life, be it by some genetic deficiency or environmental trauma. And I can’t help but feel like maybe we use the Death Drive to actually find that lacking lust or desire for life. When ya exist in a feeling of nonexistence, meaningless or numbness akin to a walking corpse… well maybe becoming aware of mortality, actually embracing one’s ability to die through intimate dances with danger, one finds a true desire to live. I mean dead things can’t die, and if ya feel as though ya are living death then ya can’t truly engage with nor enjoy and embrace life as a living creature. But awareness of one’s ability to die forces one to accept their status as living and perhaps ignites to desire to preserve that… just ponderings based on my own experience and perhaps full of shit but worth noting
well said!!! Embracing the ability to die I think also leads to the acceptance of suffering in the present & (ultimately/hopefully) taking ownership over it and therefore your own life.
so this to me, means:
acceptance of death => acceptance of ongoing suffering => ownership of our temporary life
Miyamoto Musashi wrote "generally speaking, the way of the warrior is the resolute acceptance of death". I think he is right here, be it man or woman, it takes a warrior's fighting spirit to bear the suffering which ignites the will to die. This philosophy (I guess you could call it) has me in the gym. Has me taking down my hoodie in pouring rain.. to remind myself to accept it & try my best to live on.
but feel free to excuse my waffle & crack pot talk.. there is clearly something to this imo.
You’re not mentally ill. You figured out how to access Memento Mori. Read your last few sentences. Lean into that as your source of power. Then evolve it into the authentic and authoritative version of what you believe yourself to envy in others. Use the genuine stoic version.
I ponder this concept a lot, as I go through bouts of low emotion due to my circumstance and the ways I've suffered to get ahead but ultimately lost all my progress multiple times into my late 30's due to reasons out of my control. A lot of my friends have self deleted, and the only reason I havn't is because of my religious upbringing and physical appearance that has granted me access to a lot of women. I've never considered self deletion as a means of ending my suffering, but I do often wish that I could just not exist.
A mantra I keep close to me that always revamps my enthusiasm is the concept of how unlikely it is that I were to be born in this era. Being 36, I got to witness all of modern's technological advancement, and in that same time I've observed the cultural family structure unravel to the point where I know for certain that in 20 years the family structure will become a government who controls it's herd of dumbed down citizens. For this I want to make it as far as I can, so I can share the information I've watched to those born to a new form of society with lack of historical reference. Mental toughness is hard, no matter how down you get, you always have to BELIEVE, not think, but know for certain, that you will make it up again, even if you don't have the answers now, you simply have to put one foot infront of the other every day, until opportunities show up for you to take advantage of. Also life sometimes just isn't fair and you have to accept that you might just die in a car crash before you achieve your goals, and that's how it goes.
Well I hope you don't feel this way at age 50 as I do now. Never desired self deletion until about now.
This video is one of the most amazing pieces of work! Excellent insight! Very few people discuss this concept.👍🏻
Thank you :)
this has given me so much clarity. thank you for all your work and effort.
It’s crazy that freuds thoughts are so relevant today. How he talks about listening to a sad song. I also relate to addiction and going back to things I say I hate over and over. Like two entities live within me simultaneously.
It's a gift to be young and in good health; to be devoid of pain , both physically and mentally. Losing that makes one wish for death. 'If the game isn't fun any more, switch it off.'
Your comment reminds me of a quote I saw that read “ A man can die at 25 and won’t be buried until he’s 75.” It signifies that life ends quick long before death arrives. The only thing that’s living between that gap is the death drive through habitual escapism.
00:00-3:10 the death drive
15:38-16:08 the death drive > seeking relief from life’s tensions; peace
18:08-18:24 the death drive as a manifestation of thoughts arisen by society
Excellent video. Thank you.
I needed to hear this today. Thanks!
I appreciate this video. Rather than attempting to discuss solutions & teach lessons for how to be better, taking the time to discuss destructive tendencies satisfies my desire for life saving truth & facing my shadow despite it's efforts to stay locked up. To have this topic laid out like this is masterful; not that I expect anything less from this wonderful channel.
How do you personally cope with a darker part of yourself that wants to express itself in socially unacceptable ways? Currently struggling with this myself
The death drive isn't real. Evolutionarily it can't exist. Instead, this phenomenon you're describing is simply still the pleasure drive. It only takes on this extreme from when one's life is so terrible there is no pleasure, then death seems like the ultimate step to finding peace at last. Also, in the case of masochism, look up the definition. It's seeking PLEASURE from pain. Same as listening to sad music. You're feeling something. Sadness yes, but you are still feeling one of the great aspects of life: Feelings... Which you clearly value more than numbness or else you would not listen to feel them.
It's a false sense of having "control", sad things will happen but at least this (listening to sad music) I can control
Why can’t it exist exactly? Being fittest may mean dying at the right time. Apoptosis keeps you alive by killing the individual cell. It makes perfect evolutionary sense that a death drive may exist in a larger organism.
You are mistaken that evolutionarily it can't exist--it absolutely can, and does. I suggest you look into the sizeable research that exists on animal species with self-destruction built into their genetics.
You don't know what you're talking about.
As a miserable man I can assure you that I'm a pain seeker, of course, but I also seek those painful moments through some pleasure such as drugs and stuff. So, with that in mind I don't see two different aspects of human behavior, hedonism and self destruction, I just see one and it's the same thing.
This sounds really profound.
Where a lot of people get it wrong is assuming that all pleasures are in service of things that support life. Some things like drug abuse can actually be more likely to lead to death, but they give pleasure just the same. It's not even as simple as that. Some things simultaneously lead to life and death. On the individual level, the most pleasurable foods to eat are often "junk foods," which provide some nutrients necessary for life (caloric energy if nothing else), but at the same time when frequently consumed can lead to disease and death from excess sugars, fats, etc. On the level of life as a species, reproduction (or simply sexual gratification) has its risks, especially for women. It sometimes happens that in trying to bring one new individual into the world, a preexisting individual is taken out of it (often taking the new-person-to-be out with her).
I think you're incredibly correct. Hedonism isn't enjoying life, its denying it.
Okay, William S. Burroughs.
Artie Shopenhaur cracks me up. He's my favorite. In his old age when he finally achieved some noteriety,a young admirer came to visit. He asked Artie," If it's so miserable,why do you endure it?". He replied,"Because it's so fascinating!".
TRUE!!! 👏
Rule of Boring seems to apply to this world lmao
I have been on a path of self destruction last 30 years.... finally after 6 months of therapy I realized my Death Drive which I never let go off since I was 10 years old...
The David Benatar quote about fearing children suffering in their life is pretty spot on for me. It has kept me up regularly since my first child was born. All a parent can do is make their childhood good and try to raise children able to survive the trials ahead, ideally in a healthy way. I am also trying to raise them to not have my inherent recklessness.
Teaching them about the probable pain love can bring is important
Feeling peaceful at having found this message so kindly articulated and presented. Thank you.
I do not think there is a death drive, because the ones that are the most active in expressing the behavior you associate with death drive are also the ones that fear death the most. The longing to end the suffering is to me a much more plausibele explanation. And every addiction provides a relief to that anxiety, at least initially.
This is the comment I was looking for.
*There is no such thing as Death Drive* .
As for those people who choose to isolate themselves from others, many of them remain their own best friends. Nothing to do at all with wanting to end their lives.
To me death drive is the symptom of spiritual suffering. Just like how our body projects its issues out by showing abnormal conditions, our consciousness and spiritual form would give similar signals to alert you that something is wrong. Try to get to the bottom of your addictions and harmful behaviours, you'll understand what's wrong with you mentally.
And yes, sometimes death drive don't mess with you, it instead pushes you into situations where others can hurt you/or you hurt others and be punished for the actions. It's like you're constantly in a mind game with your own consciousness, and the only way to win is to lose.
Began smoking 10 years ago as a plan to shorten my existence and can't abandon that plan even though I know things changed for the better because it is still not worth existing.
Damn, thats ruff.. yall need help, life is not that hard..
@@lancerussell755You don't get it bro, it's also not that rewarding. Life = snore. Not to mention the fact that you have no idea what other people have been through. Your privilege is showing.
@@bobbydigital8056 Everyone alive is privileged
@@lancerussell755Maybe yours isn’t. Congrats.
@@bobbydigital8056It’s no use explaining something to someone who can’t see.
🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation:
00:53 🧠 Sigmund Freud proposed two opposing drives: Eros (life drive) and Thanatos (death drive). The death drive suggests irrational, self-destructive tendencies in human behavior, leading to actions that can cause harm or violence.
04:35 💭 Freud observed repetitive, self-destructive behaviors in individuals, attributing them to a deeper unconscious desire for self-destruction. This drove him to propose the concept of the death drive.
05:38 ⚖️ While life is generally cherished, various philosophers like Schopenhauer, Benatar, and Cioran have emphasized the inherent suffering in life, advocating for the idea that non-existence may be preferable to existence.
11:10 💔 Freud's death drive suggests that there may be an unconscious force within humans that longs for annihilation, leading to behaviors like self-destruction and substance abuse as expressions of this inner longing.
14:54 🔁 Freud's concept of "repetition compulsion" highlights the tendency to repeat self-destructive patterns, even when they lead to further pain and tension, providing evidence for the existence of the death drive.
16:14 ⚔️ Freud believed the death drive also manifests as aggression towards others, representing a desire for destruction outside of oneself. He linked sadism and masochism to this concept, as expressions of the death drive.
18:32 🤔 The concept of the death drive challenges us to confront our self-destructive tendencies and consider whether they are driven by conditioning, trauma, or an inherent force longing for self-destruction or death.
Made with HARPA AI
Top vid, cheers. I am 61, have no teeth, mainly from gritting them. I can only say, smile while you still have teeth.
If you don't suffer you don't learn, ignorance is bliss. I kind of relate to Icarus as 'bipolar'.
I never listen to sad music it is torture. But I am entirely self destructive, have anger for the outside world for being so dumb and not seeing what I see and completely isolate myself so I don't get hurt or hurt anyone else.
Thoughts can be very dangerous, I look at it like a trai, a train of thought. Get off the bad thought train and get a new one add good thoughts to the engine.
Good luck everyone, all I know is if you can laugh about it, whatever it is, even maniacally, 😅, it makes it better, as do trees and sunshine. Take care of your brains they were good enough to watch this, so you are sound 😊
This is the most meaningful video I ever heard...... We are all trying to escape from realty
Oh, man! This study really helps me! I'm amazed. I am at the juncture between wanting to live well and wanting oblivion. I like that you pose both as valid. Thank you for the video. It's already helping me. It will continue to affect me. My conclusion right now is that I want to want to enjoy my life. It'll take real effort to cultivate a good life again, but, for now, it's the opportunity before me! Thank you again for your thorough exploration of the crucial matters of thought, feeling, and decision.
thank you for your videos. Always so accurate
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5:41 - Terror management runs very deep. In this context, even just in childhood, having responsibilities of any kind is already a ward against the death drive. To see yourself as the guardian of your own well being and seeing your own well being as your responsibility, also a massive protection from it. All of these systems end up in confusion though if one finds themselves in a place where death would be preferable, especially in mid-life and even early adulthood. This is where people put such a distance on it, not only based on fear of death but death = failure, failure = bad, failure = status destruction, all of that rolls up.
There is something beautiful knowing you didn't ask to come into this world but you and you alone have the choice to end it all......
Always believed that every human has a death wish, whether they realize it or not. It is beyond consciousness. The story of Icarus was always one of my favorites~
To me it feels like homesickness, to a place I don't know where it is or even whether it even exists, but a homesick type feeling nonetheless.
@@evadebruijnI agree 100%. Homesick is the best way to put it. I always felt the exact same way. I hope there’s a real “place” we all came from, but there could just be nothing after this 🤷♂️
I have been offline for a year and a bit now only have UA-cam to stay somewhat in the loop. I went through a stage where being alone was very difficult and I craved attention couldn’t be on my own. But as time passed I found some beautiful and comfort being alone, being with my thoughts understanding and realising who my true friends are and building strong relationships with the people around me. It’s okay to be alone pain is apart of the process of being the best version of you. Make sure you reach out if you need help good luck and lots of love.
I love this channel, always gives me something to think about. I imagine the "call of the void" might fit quite nicely within the definition of a death drive. Might even be one of the better examples, because it's one of the few times you have a chance to consciously recognize your own thought patterns. It's always a weird shock to the psycho-system that makes me think "why do I think that?"
Thanks!
This is quite pertinent. As a 55 year old man, I have a penchant for beer which only has manifested itself within the past 4 years, since my mother died, Dad was 9 years prior. I can drink 6-8 hi test beers per night (6-8% abv), even on a workday, and have often wondered if I'm doing it on purpose, as I know the results and issue that come with excessive alcohol consump[tion. This is a daily occurrence, and It needs to stop.
Bro. I’d stop. I was a severe alcoholic for 15 years…. 15-30 years old too, so my body was in its prime. It was the nastiest disease and one of the most MISERABLE ways a human can exist. I wouldn’t wish alcoholism on my very worst enemy. You will either die and quick, or have to get sober. Both are extremely painful. I’d pick ANY other drug than alcohol to abuse… just so you know.
I went through a hellish time when my wife and I divorced, she alienated my kids from me and took every measure she could to destroy me ,it would’ve been so easy just to buy alcohol and get wasted , but I chose to buy a new gravel bike and get fitter than ever , that’s the best middle finger to her and the system.
This video was fantastic, I needed this, thank you ❤. I feel like I understand this wholly
Our brains/bodies have not evolved to respond functionally to intense, prolonged painful stimulus like one is exposed to in war, military occupation, or genocide. We are stunting our collective development with these sorts of violences and we (and all other life) lose precious steps for becoming better than we currently are. An end to war, an end to polarization across various demographics, an end to constant extraction of the earth - these are necessary for our sustained life. I hope we collectively understand this as soon as possible.
I have been contemplating this concept in my entire career of self-destructive behaviors. I called it microsuicide dan then found out it was a real terminology used.
“But at the bottom, the immanent philosopher sees in the entire universe only the deepest longing for absolute annihilation, and it is as if he clearly hears the call that permeates all spheres of heaven: Redemption! Redemption! Death to our life! and the comforting answer: you will all find annihilation and be redeemed!”
― Philipp Mainländer, Die Philosophie der Erlösung
I have this drive very powerfully. It is held tightly to my curiosity. Insatiable hunger for knowledge. This is why I can't go just yet. I am so fortunate to exist at this time when I can explore, learn and create with this device I hold in my hand. Death is always here, smiling and offering her hand. I smile back.
Yes! True for me as well. I’ll spare you my long, painful backstory, but the only reason I keep deciding to “be here” really comes down to being curious what tomorrow looks like. I’ve learned to “weaponize” that curiousity against the SI and ramifications of major chronic medical burdens. Even if tomorrow comes and is as miserable as the last, holding out curiosity from what the next day may bring regardless. It’s one thing I can say to those younger than me to urge them to hang in there. Life can throw some terrible curveballs, but there are also good people out there willing to help “lift you up” if you ask for help. One woman (a stranger then) unexpectedly helped me out and was incredibly generous to me, at a time when I thought it was all over, and she helped “prove” to me that, in darkest times, it was worth it to hold on and be curious for better days and chance for something new, relief from physical & mental pain, or another fleeting moment of contentment.
Today, I’m happy to have connected with your comment about the effect of curiosity on this mentality, and that I’m not alone in that sentiment. Even if I don’t choose to end things, my incurable brain & spine tumor might any day w/o warning. With the pain and symptoms it can be hard to be grateful to still be alive sometimes, but curiosity, that comes much easier. ❤
One concept that always comes to mind when speaking on the subject of death is that of Ernest Becker, and The Denial of Death. I'm wondering how the two concepts of death drive and death denial can work within the same frame of metaphysics.
Has anyone talked about that? Great video, it's going to have me thinking for many hours to come!
Was thinking the same. Please share if you make any progress regarding this question.
Denial of Death is often the tandem of an amazing high you get from seeking thrills. Just knowing when to stop is what's crucial! Some just don't, or they're bad at weighing out the pros and cons 😅😝
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@@Johny40Se7en Can you give a negative example of this? The not being able to weigh out the pros and cons
@@Smelly-water Being impulsive when it comes to anything. Prime example being something as simple as gambling, taking a narcotic, it's like people say to themselves "Oh, I'll only do it once", or "It's nothing major", then they get a little high, and it becomes addiction to them, where they're haemorrhaging money, or life...
Thank you for this. I have new understanding about why it is so hard to be human. It is the pervasive tension that makes me want to be inert. I will look into the thinkers you mention here. I am a big Schopenhauer fan already. What a grump!
Boom, you drop the bomb of loneliness and social isolation right at the end. I was feeling all smug and detached. Surely my circumstance is the result of measures beyond my control. But now I’m going to have to review my choices
Beautiful video ❤ love the upbeat atmosphere you bring out
This was my introduction to your content.
Technology is too invasive, and this was recommended to me.
I'm 40 and I struggle pretty hard with drugs and alcohol, I'm rather blasted currently to be honest.
Nonetheless I'm commenting that with what I already told you about myself, that this did seem to naturally resonate with me.
I'll be sure to catch more of your vids, thank you.
3:00 struggling mentally? It's my life story. Bring it on... I'm not pulling the plug on life only because I know that my perception is totally falsified, so... I learn to function along with my brain chemical imbalance, knowing that I can't trust no one to really understand my own demise.
"This video is not intended to be helpful or anything like that." Perfect, that's exactly what I'm looking for.
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Same here
That is a lacking statement.
Went to a metaphysical therapist once who opened me to the concept of being happy for sad and sad for happy. It explains itself if you think about it as a subconscious drive. That there be fulfillment at the prospect of pain and destruction as well as feeling bereft when the joys of life come. She meant it was a curse.
No, it doesn't explain itself if you think about it as a subconscious drive.
@@krampusthunderstick3729 that's all the information you can offer, maybe it's not a subconscious drive but what else is under the surface making us act in ways we're not aware. Only on the subconscious can happy be made sad.
I see death as something that is beautiful. Everything is a cycle.
You might be a psychopath.
I go back and forth on this...
Even that's a cycle lol
I have depression so this is a great video for me!
When I have depression episodes I realize that I live in reality again. People that never have trouble with it live in dream world chasin hedonism. But at some point we all realize what life is about: suffering.
I have in the past...
The main solutions for me are nature, creativity (art or music), and exercise.
You can even mix them together!
Just try to think outside your box.
The Tao de Ching is immensely helpful with that IMHO
Cheers
Suffering through depression myself for a while, but I was able to ignore it after I got into a relationship which I can only explain as extremely blissful.
Well either way no matter how good my partner was, I never changed and my mental state and it ruined the relationship; causing its end. Even though I had so much, I still developed self destructive behavior.
My depression is back and at an all time high, currently figuring out if I am weak enough to admit that I am not able to endure life’s smallest challenges.
This is making me fret so deeply within ❤ fr I just truly appreciate this narrative perspective! Smile😊
I’ve just been learning about the death drive. It’s so fascinating.
I feel that living in the past is a form of death. The constant pursuit to consume things and relive old moments that once made you feel alive then just to numb you out now. Kind of what Dr. Joe Dispenza would say, living in old programming. When the world keeps spinning forward, you want to go backwards because the comforts of the past can’t hurt you.
At this point, I want to look at death as a new beginning. Accept in full that the past is dead but not forget. Upgrade the new programming and have new experiences. Maybe doing past stuff in some moderation is fine, but living in it needs to be out of the question.
Your video gave me more clarity on some real life stuff I’ve been dealing with. Thank you.
What Freud observed in those soldiers is called PTSD. There's also this thing called Complex PTSD.
In CPTSD you don't have visual flashbacks you have emotional flashbacks. Just a smell or the tone in someone's voice can put you in a depressed, anxious, fearful, disgusted... state and you have now ideea what just happened or where that came from. It's a complex topic ....
Pete Walker (if I remember correctly) wrote an amazing book about it.
Yes, Pete Walker is his name, the title is CPTSD from surviving to thriving.
He has a disclaimer somewhere in the book that thriving is not in the cards for everyone, no matter how hard they work on healing. So I guess it is back to acceptance again? I'm still not sure what I truly think/feel about the quote but it intrigues me: Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.
Other highly recommended authors on cptsd are Judith Herman (iirc she was the first) Bessel Vanderkolk and Gabor Mate.
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Im terribly happy with my life, but also the thought of death gives me a lot of peace. At the end of an argument with someone, my mantra to let all the tension go is thinking, "one day I will die", and that kinda flushes the accumulated energy from the discussion. I feel we are used to fear death because of indoctrination , but regardless of it being an after life, or just dissolving into the universe, it sounds peaceful. I loved this video.
Nice vid. The thing you missed about death is fundamentally, that death does not bring relief. One does not *feel* the absence of pain, and with that, peace and relief. People have the tendency to imagine a weight falling off of them, as if to be released from their burdens. However death does not give this release. You may simply suffer until you are gone.
What’s always kept me optimistic about living is the fact that I am conscious, I can think, and I can feel. I can wonder about life and reality’s many curious quirks. If I am dead, I can’t do any of those things. Who’s to say I wouldn’t wish to go back to living once I am dead, should I be given the chance to have that wish?
I am young, so I look forward to a long and memorable life. Internal and external expectations of me are slowly killing me though. Wish me good fortune and health.
> Who’s to say I wouldn’t wish to go back to living once I am dead
To a rotten world like this?
@@brindlekintales I’m sorry to hear that’s been your experience so far
Very good one 👏👏👏 definitely super interesting.
I can really relate to thinking birth is negative. Life forced upon us and forced to continue
"Returning to the inanimate" that is a very good way of putting it. We are all born from the interstellar dust of dying stars, and it is there we shall return someday. No pain, no awareness, but in fact, nothingness. Although personally, the fact that some of the molecules/atoms that were once me might someday provide light, life, and hope by way of being a star is comforting.
My death drive is so strong. I just realized that the reason I went through so much trauma is that I gave up on myself and felt like it doesn’t matter because I’m already broken. You can say that my need for validation has led me to places I wouldn’t go with a gun😂 I’m doing much better now, I feel like I cracked the code to letting go of trauma.
How did you crack the code? Have u got any advice for those struggling?
From one recovering addict to (it sounds like) another, thank you for this video and the example of addiction as a possible manifestation of the death drive. I never knew there was literature on the matter, but it’s something that I personally noted throughout my life, particularly in addiction, but also preceding the use of drugs. I wasn’t usually suicidal exactly, but I always had a drive towards death. It’s with me still at 40, but it’s less noticeable.
Thanatos.... from a whisper to a scream, his words get louder every day.
My view on why people go out of their way to cause more pain is because their unconscious is trying to force them to look at the pain to resolve it. Dealing with my childhood trauma has been like this. It becomes less painful the more I confront and alter my view of my past. Before, it was always overpowering and I would try to avoid it but it just turned into chronic insomnia because my brain didn't want to lose consciousness and be beholden to stressful dreams telling me I had damage I needed to repair. I think this is also why people continue dating terrible people. There is something inside them that is trying to work through the pain and problems but the conscious is actively distracting out of fear of the pain.
Find the traumas that are lurking deep inside, the traumas you try to escape. Re-analyze them from the safety of the future moment and diminish their power. That is the only way I have found to remove this death drive or depression.
Amazing essay Einzelgänger. Not a topic I particularly agree with but never the less it was beautiful to listen to.
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Talking about death drive, it could very well be stemming either from a traumatic incident or straight up boredom from life.
The latter may sound a bit absurd, but it is true, infact much worse. When you have learnt so much about life and nothing really seems to interest you anymore, especially if you have lost your faith, the tendency to indulge in such behaviours is likely to change.
Finding a strong and meaningful purpose may help, however as Albert Camus stated, “The soul who suffers too much develops a taste for misfortune.” If you have reached that point, it is best to seek help. When you stop finding a point in it, seek help from a professional. That is all that can help.
The logical error in the drive towards death to avoid suffering, is that we make suffering itself wrong.
When we can stand apart from our experiences of suffering, and watch them from a meta state of observer awareness, it’s much like watching a dramatic movie- we experience the drama of the movie, but we know we aren’t the movie.
Why be so enthralled into our story?
Today I’m experiencing sadness… I watch myself experiencing sadness-I ask myself If I want to experience sadness- I realize that my sadness is based on specific opinions or beliefs- I realize that I can change those beliefs if I don’t want to experience sadness.
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We are too immersed in our movie to remember that we are actually the watcher of the movie.
Very well said, thank you. This is exactly how I deal with life, too...observing myself from outside, and not getting swallowed up by whatever negative emotion comes along.
Thanks for the heads up. I’ll check it out when I’m feeling better
For years I could only fall asleep while visualizing my death . I would recreate it every night . Something comforting about the thought of death.
00:53 Icarus' flight towards the sun may not have been just youthful impulsiveness; Sigmund Freud introduced the concept of the death drive, suggesting humans have irrational, self-destructive tendencies.
03:13 Freud observed a human tendency to replicate and repeat traumatic events, even before World War I, leading to the idea of the death drive, an unconscious desire for self-destruction.
06:08 While most cultures value life, there's inherent suffering in existence; thinkers like Buddha, Cioran, and Schopenhauer explored the idea that life may not be as desirable as we think.
10:48 Freud's death drive is an unconscious force that longs for annihilation and non-existence, alongside the conscious desire to survive and thrive.
12:34 The death drive isn't just a direct wish for non-existence but manifests in irrational forms of destructiveness, including repetition compulsion and aggression toward others.
18:32 The concept of the death drive challenges us to confront our self-destructive tendencies and the irrationality behind them, with ongoing debates and interpretations by various thinkers.
The reason I heard for reliving trauma was that you want to master the trauma and have it end differently (as in better).
@@johnnyearp52 real
I think most of those philosophers were depressed. During my depressive episodes i think life is suffering, i'd be glad to not exist. But during my happy episodes i enjoy life, even the most simple things
That is why 99% of philosophers and therapist even study the fields. They are super depressed, and they want to figure out why and how to change it.
Thank you for another amazing video 🙏🏼
I feel the death drive! Sometimes when I meditate I try to be in a kind of "void" of no thoughts, feeling, sensory input etc. Try to get as close to not existing as I can. I quite prefer it to being conscious, having the responsibilities of life, etc. Jung would have a field day with me.
Wow..just...Wow!, literally the most important video I have ever witnessed on UA-cam. It looks at our shadows deepest spark of thought. Is this 'game' worth it in this moment? A question so unsettling most never dare to Glace at it, let alone analyze that which is in all of us. Respect!😮
It's a question worth answering!
Overcome your fear of death and you can truly be alive in this finite experience!
Samurai used to meditate on their death every day.
I think that's how they lived so fearlessly!
@@MattAngiono, I truly agree, if You go deep enough into it _ you find only freedom and a joy for a real unfettered life. It's hard to explain to certain people's but having death as a true friend makes every day a gift! That's the real brain scrambler...but we learn from dichotomy, that's a key, and if you want to know life... know it's twin. 🤠