Very interesting way of doing a recap. Was quite enjoyable because sometimes some skaters/teams are skipped over but this allowed us to hear thoughts on everyone in an equal, thoughtful way!
thanks for making such an effort, this really felt like the first take, fresh and energetic, all the points for that. jonathan, don't feel ashamed to give 10s to shoma and virtue/moir, I am with you on that one.
Thank you! As a lifelong fan of figure skating who can't stand up on the ice, I found this so informative. It made me wish we could ask the judges on and have them explain their marks.
I really enjoyed the new format for This and That. It was professional, intelligible, informative, without losing the sense of humor and entertainment. As I've said before there are so few discussion avenues for us skating fans that we simply have to take whatever we can get. Which is not much at that. I really don't mean to offend, but there are times when I personally think This and That focus more about back stage gossip than skating. There's nothing wrong with that it just can be a bit much at times and so what off putting. I think by having this format, you guys are creating a sense of balance. I really hope you stay with for worlds. May be you can do top 5. Thank you
I appreciate the detail you went into with this. Hearing some TES discussion would be entertaining too, but I know there are time constraints and you guys already gave much of your time.
that Shoma Uno love, preach! I disagree about Mai Mihara, I think she has a lightness and enthusiasm to her skating that are really compelling to watch. I don't think her program is great but i don't think she, herself is forgettable.
Daphen axa I disagree. I totally thought of some other Japanese name when trying to remember who won. That free skate in like a water down version of Polina programs.
i disagree with your disagreement :) Mai has better technique than Polina with fantastic jumps, no UR issues and no edge issues. She also has better skating skills than her, with great speed and good edges. I think her programs are more interesting and compelling. She is still a rough, unrefined performer with superficial interpretation and no real emotional commitment to her performance, but I think the talent and promise are very impressive and it is weird to label her as forgettable. Polina stood out at some point because she was a reliable competitor in a sea of American ladies ready to bomb any competition. But then to each their own.
I think Nathan's training in ballet benefits him a lot. I could see the classical feel in his skating, which is seldom seen in other skaters' programs (perhaps only Patrick and Jason have that feel).
Thanks for such an interesting and detailed break down of the scoring system! It made it much clearer to me how the scores are (supposed to be) awarded, and it was really interesting to hear the differences in personal interpretations vs the judges scores. Please do this again in the future :)
Have they really looked at the footwork of Hanyu and Shoma? Do they have eyes? Hanyu has full of steps and turns throughout the program while Shoma is doing more two foot skating and crossovers. Shoma's program is more energy saving than Hanyu's, although they may not look so. I think Hanyu should have earn more points on PCS!
Yuzuru has zero transitions? I find his long program bland too, but that's just not true. You hashtagged Yuzu's name on Twitter to bait his fans, only to tell outright lies about him. Sleazy. If you're going to spew ~alternative facts~ about him, at least don't use his name to gain clicks and traffic.
agreed. I actually agree with a lot of their points about Yuzuru performance and interpretation at 4CC, and I also don't particularly like his FS, but i find it very disingenuous to put him on the same level as Nathan Chen in terms of transitions.
Thank You Jonathan, Do The Big Jumps With The Music! In the case of Nathan Chen, the kid grew quite a bit very quickly and his muscles are a little behind...He'll gain hat and fill out as well as increase his coordination over the next year and be serious challenge the Olympic Gold as well as in 5 years!!!
Based off of what we saw and know from Europeans and 4CC I would agree that Virtue/Moir and the French are clearly the top 2 teams just as they've been all season, with Virtue/Moir somewhat easily the top team (the international judges this year clearly really really really want to give it to them). I would then say the Shibutani's are solidly in third by a fairly comfortable margin. I wouldn't even bother grouping them with Chock/Bates as they do here. This video doesn't discuss it, but I think it's interesting and probably pretty telling how much the Shibutani's beat out Chock/Bates here (and in a late season event in which both teams had 2 pretty clean skates). And when was the last time Chock/Bates won an entire event over the Shibutani's? It's been quite some time, with the Shibutani's coming out on top the second half of last season and so far all of this season if I'm recalling correctly. Something i find kind of interesting.. if I remember right, the Shibutani's FD score at 4CC beats out the French's FD score at Europeans, again both skates were done late in the season and both free dances were relatively clean as far as I can remember. This lead to the Shibutani's having a higher total competition score over the French as well when comparing Europeans to 4CC. Yes I know there were different judging panels at each event so it's not fair to make apples to apples comparisons but it's certainly interesting. And we already know the Shibutani's short dance has the potential to outscore the french's as they did it already at the GPF (and may of done so when comparing Europeans to 4CC, I can't remember either teams score off the top of my head but I do remember the French finished in 3rd at the Europeans, a much weaker ice dance field than 4CC this year, and the Shibutani's finished in 2nd). Having said all this, I still won't go so far to say the Shibutani's will outscore the French at worlds, I'm just not willing to break the clear consensus on the top two teams.. but I do think the Shibutani's may not be all that far from catching the number 2 team and could be closer to reaching them than most think (looking at just seasons best scores puts them well in the hunt). Like I said earlier though there's no way of them catching Virtue/Moir, I think they've got this Worlds clinched barring unforeseen disaster.
I agree that Hanyu looks down a noticeable amount of time, and I feel that he executes some of his choreography half-heartedly/not full out/not with the level of commitment of other skaters.
I know they weren't elegant, but I felt Little Talks and Titanic were much more Mariah than the Nancy Kerrigan thing that they are trying to do to her. Also, I think that people have revisionist history when it comes to Polina a little bit. It's a much deeper field now, and when she was a "solid 8", Kanako and Rika were still beating her (plus she has high base value but gets the unders too).
Dave, the hands behind the back is a technique that was given to Lubov into all her jumps to keep her upper body still. I'm guessing they had to just incorporate that into the program and they made Dylan match her. Notice they do it in the short too.
Why does Ghost get a bad rap? I could see if you use over-the-top voiceovers like Ilinykh & Katsalapov that it can become too much, but I think Alexa & Chris's music is pleasant and has variety. The big elements are placed well on the swells of the music, which Jonathan had just gotten done criticizing Meagan & Eric for not doing. If you know Alexa & Chris's previous couple long programs, you know this is a considerably better vehicle for them. I came away feeling really good after watching them. Jonathan knows more about music than I do, but I like the Ghost selections they are using.
It's just personal preference. They chose the most beautiful parts of the Ghost soundtrack IMO. Their version of Unchained Melody is really pretty. Some people dislike music or programs that make any reference to love (in that case I wonder why they're watching pair skating). These are some of the same people who criticize skaters for not showing enough chemistry lol. Lori Nichol has done great work, but then you also have people who don't like the work she's done with skaters like Gracie Gold. There are mixed opinions on virtually every choreographer and music selection. You can never please everyone.
I like their music. And Nathan Chen's music. And I'm a little difficult to please with music. Their LP works well for them and while I'm not sure about every change they made to their SP, that one works well for them too. After so much missed training time, they were impressive. Strong pair event here.
I personally like Ghost when it's done right, which in this case, I believe it is. And I like what they did with the Come What May music too, by adding a little instrumental section.
I'm glad someone else said it. I don't like Hanyu Free Skate at all. The short is okay not bad but that long is hell of boring!!! Uno I love both of his programs and I'm shocked that the judges don't give him more PCS. Of course some of the categories are less than Hanyu but still.... Nathan is like all of our little brother that we will throw all the points at in the US because we haven't had a top guy that can do Quads and get barely by with artistry since dare I say it Timothy Goebal or Michael Weiss..... Which neither guy was that strong in artistry. Of course Nathan is a much better skater than Jin but he's an solid 7.75 to 8.25 skater.
Jhonasan!, You rock! I completely agree with you about Shoma's 95!! His skating is so smooth,his back straight,beautiful from head to toe. I guess judges are giving higher PCS to Hanyu due to past performance record as Tara said. Hope Judges will judge the performance not the past achievement.
interesting format of commentary-- but can you guys post the scores on the screen as you talk? I lose track of each score and how they compare with the same scores from other teams.... maybe a running table at the bottom?
After watching the nhk review with Sandra I'm more forgiving with the miss programs this season, but will judge the programs next season extra seriously tho.
Agreed. Mai is a solid canvas right now...she just needs some good paint! Better music, better costumes, better programs. She's packaged like a junior this year and that's what she comes off looking like. She has lovely jumps and decent consistency; she could be a factor. It's just that her vehicle this season is snoozeville. It'd love to see her work with Akiko on choreography and expression. That would really bring her skating to another level..
Tom Z. seems to have a habit of watering down the choreography for the routines of his skaters. He did the same thing with Max's Swan Lake program. I think Mirai should switch to Kori and Rohene
In general, skaters often get programs choreographed and then end up modifying the choreo once they do run-throughs with all the elements. Mirai may feel she needs to water down the choreo in places for the sake of the technical elements. And some skaters can handle more choreo than others. Mirai has had underrotation issues, so she might be trying to save up extra energy. It's easy to just blame a coach, but a lot goes into something like this.
I've worked with several modern dance Choreographers...although the pantomime exists in the dance world as well, it is often frowned upon as the "Obvious" choice. I get why they do it...it just seems too predictable for my taste. I feel like there would be a way to show the same idea with a more sophisticated idea.
Jonathan Beyer I want to say I love listening to your point of view. It is very refreshing and knowledgable. I want to explain that the majority of my dance experience has been in the competitive world which is different in than the professional world. Your comment about miming was followed by..something like "this is a dance". It is commonplace in competitive dance to see a dance place her hands over her eyes when the song says something about being blind or seeing...or touch their heart, or place their hand over their mouth. Even professional commercial choreographers use it at times. You will see it often in Travis Walls work especially the stuff he does for competitions. His Emmy nominated piece wind beneath my wings heavily uses the "wing shapes" and the partner beneath the wings. It is a lovely piece but is a good example of relying on the words to produce the shapes. That being said, cheesy as it may be, if the words in the music say rise up, I don't want you going down in a lunge.
Dave is great, but I like how every year Kirsten's partnership is "not working", but the bottom ranked US team is always "promising". Ashley C would be considered tall even in singles. And it affects everything, including her posture. A short guy could be a good basketball player, but you don't see them in the NBA. Only with Sui and Han the smaller difference isn't so noticable, and even they started out with a big differential. Maybe they're not perfect matches but at least Canadian pairs have the one foot height difference thing down.
Dear The skating Lesson, Your assessment of Mai Mihara is unfair and rather harsh, as she has just made an amazing comeback from a crippling arthritis condition that kept her sidelined for over a year. . She skates with speed, flow and with an assurance that she will definitely land her jumps. Her program was technically flawless, and her jumps the highlights. And she did a great job. She is still very young. and in time her presentation can and should improve. There is room and enough time for her to grow, but her athletic ability puts her in a world class league.
I think Dave and Jonathan were unduly harsh on their scoring of Mirai. It is true that Mirai was very serious throughout most of the program, showing some emotion only towards the end. But that should only affect one mark- Performance/Execution. And her transitions were not non-existent. They weren't fancy or intricate, but they were there, except for a few jumps at the end. Personally, I would rather see Mirai jump like she did at this event even if it means she has to leave out some meaningless moves that are there only to get points. Here is how I would have scored her overall: SS-8.5 (good speed, multi-directional, one-foot skating) Tr-7.75 Comp.-8.5. P/E-8 I-8.5 (She did interpret the music, even if she didn't have a fake grin pasted on throughout the program, which is what people seem to want) Total-66 I think this would have given her the gold.
Thanks for your analysis of Mirai's PCS. It's nice to see and I do think she should have gotten higher PCS, I just think 66 is a tad bit high. I probably would feel comfortable giving her something around 64. She got around 62, Which is her highest PCS score for a free skate to date. If she would have gotten the 66 PCS you mentioned it only would have bumped her up to silver. Unfortunately, her slip up in the SP hindered her chances of getting the gold over Mai. She would've needed a full five points more if she had hoped to win the gold. But I hope she could win the 4cc gold at some point. Perhaps next year.
Re: Gracie's failure-to-thrive... This is a slightly hypothetical question, but whyyy do so many skaters/coaches/choreographers, like, fail to change X or Y when it's very very very clearly not working? Gracie's footwork-into-3T has, as Johnny Weir mentioned at Nationals, not worked for her all season. Why does no one say Heyyyy let's change that! What're these skaters' paying for if not to have a team of experts available to work with them and their programs throughout the entire season?
I would love to see Ashley Cain with Eric Radford - talk about matching lines. His natural elegance would look fantastic next to her. Tim LeDuc is great but his line doesn't quite match Ashley's as well (it's close) and there's not enough height difference. Still, Cain & LeDuc are doing very well and have come so far in such a short time.
SayYesToAwesome if there are specific things you would like discussed or addressed or something specific you'd like in terms of A/V, please let us know. Jenny is certainly talented and has chosen to focus on school.
Hi - I just re-read my post and was like, damnnnn I'm a bitch! I didn't intend to be so bitchy - just that I missed Jenny. I didn't need to throw any shade your way. I would say that since Jenny left, the sound quality is not as good - sometimes the sound is a little muffled. I have watched so many of your videos. Thanks for making so many of them!!! Sorry for the shade!
evaekvall143 I feel pretty convinced of something like this. A "the ranch" like atmosphere at times during the year. Being a classically solitary sport, this team-like training environment may be a shock to the USFS system but could do wonders! We lack a cohesive group of solid skaters on the world stage. Polish and train technique and skating skills, to give the US the best chance to have 3 spots in all disciplines. Would really like to see this happen!
Next time, Google it. Each criteria is worth 10.00 max (Judges can differentiate the scores in 0.25. ie. there is no scores like 9.14, 9.35... must be like: 7.00, 7.25, 7.50, 7.75... so on). For Mens, criteria is factored by 2 & Ladies is factored by 1.6. Thus, Mens can earn maximum 100 points ([5 criterias] x [10.00 max] x [factor of 2] = 100) and Ladies can earn up to 80 points (5 criteria x 10 points max s factor by 1.6 = 80).
Am I the only one who doesn't get why Virtue and Moir are considered so much better than the rest of the field. I prefer the precision of the Shibutanis and the passion of Chock and Bates. I saw some mistakes by Scott in their programs. Do they get a pass?
idolfan9495 Agreed! Also - unpopular opinion but, I still don't get what V/M's program is about, what is it they're trying to tell me. Their FD is heavily PapCiz inspired (they're basically doing what P/C did last year, only to different music) and I don't think it suits them.
Their skating skills are great and Tessa dance really well, but I agree they are not so above of the rest. And God, the FD is terrible, poor guys. I hope next season they get the programs they deserve.
I don't see the US keeping those 3 spots. The field is too deep at worlds this year. 3 Russians, at least 2 Japanese, 1 American, 1 Italian and 2 Canadians. That's 9 spots. Sad to say I have zero faith in Karen Chen. I think Mariah Bell could pull it off but she'd need to knock it out of the park in both programs to have a shot. Last year 8th place scored 200+ in total score. Neither Mariah nor Karen (nor Mirai) have hit that number internationally. It's not looking good people...
Leave it to Dave to reduce Arvo Part's highly celebrated and respected by actual classical musicians "Spiegel im Spiegel" to music from a car commercial. Here's some reading: crosseyedpianist.com/2012/06/23/infinite-reflections-parts-spiegel-im-spiegel/
![[UA] NAVI проти G2 Esports | Blast Premier Fall Final](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QWlIm4FGESQ/mqdefault.jpg)
The sound is great in this video! Nicely balanced. Thank you so much for all the hard work you do!
Jonathan Beyer is sooooo funny, thank you so much for the recap
Very interesting way of doing a recap. Was quite enjoyable because sometimes some skaters/teams are skipped over but this allowed us to hear thoughts on everyone in an equal, thoughtful way!
thanks for making such an effort, this really felt like the first take, fresh and energetic, all the points for that. jonathan, don't feel ashamed to give 10s to shoma and virtue/moir, I am with you on that one.
Shoma Uno's freeskate is my favourite this season ❤ I'd give him a 10 too 👍🏼
0~ Ice Dance
31:37 Pairs
1:02:35 Mens
1:20:27 ladies
thank you
Origami S Thank you
bless u omg
You are the best!
Origami S thanks! Big life saver
Thank you! As a lifelong fan of figure skating who can't stand up on the ice, I found this so informative. It made me wish we could ask the judges on and have them explain their marks.
"she's dragged in a variety of positions." bless.
Honestly this apply to Gabriella P. too.
NO it does not. Gabby has improved. She is skating with and performing with Guilliame this season.
cumbresbo I don't think you've seen her skate this season. The improvement is tremendous.
+Alena Hoskova. Believe me, I saw her this season, at live, twice.
cumbresbo So have I, at Europeans a few weeks ago. Didn't feel like she was dragged around. Her and Guillaume dance as one, the magic is real.
Dragged in a variety of position = coffee spitting. Thank you!
I really enjoyed the new format for This and That. It was professional, intelligible, informative, without losing the sense of humor and entertainment.
As I've said before there are so few discussion avenues for us skating fans that we simply have to take whatever we can get. Which is not much at that.
I really don't mean to offend, but there are times when I personally think This and That focus more about back stage gossip than skating.
There's nothing wrong with that it just can be a bit much at times and so what off putting. I think by having this format, you guys are creating a sense of balance. I really hope you stay with for worlds. May be you can do top 5.
Thank you
So critical on Nathan. I actually really love both of his programs. I also love Hanyu's long program. It reminds me of Yuri on Ice.
JonathanOhHey Hanyu's long program is tragic. So boring and doesn't do him justice at all.
I appreciate the detail you went into with this. Hearing some TES discussion would be entertaining too, but I know there are time constraints and you guys already gave much of your time.
I personally really liked Yuzuru's FS music, I think it really depends on personal preference. As for Uno...I find his jumps problematic...
He has this weird technique where it seems like he's "saving" all his jumps, especially all the quads, not sure. It's weird.
that Shoma Uno love, preach!
I disagree about Mai Mihara, I think she has a lightness and enthusiasm to her skating that are really compelling to watch. I don't think her program is great but i don't think she, herself is forgettable.
Daphen axa I disagree. I totally thought of some other Japanese name when trying to remember who won. That free skate in like a water down version of Polina programs.
i disagree with your disagreement :) Mai has better technique than Polina with fantastic jumps, no UR issues and no edge issues. She also has better skating skills than her, with great speed and good edges. I think her programs are more interesting and compelling. She is still a rough, unrefined performer with superficial interpretation and no real emotional commitment to her performance, but I think the talent and promise are very impressive and it is weird to label her as forgettable. Polina stood out at some point because she was a reliable competitor in a sea of American ladies ready to bomb any competition.
But then to each their own.
I think Nathan's training in ballet benefits him a lot. I could see the classical feel in his skating, which is seldom seen in other skaters' programs (perhaps only Patrick and Jason have that feel).
you saw the classical training in that free skate?? honestly i am surprised
in short and ex actually...I like the short much better than the free^^
oh then i agree. I like the short too
Thanks for such an interesting and detailed break down of the scoring system! It made it much clearer to me how the scores are (supposed to be) awarded, and it was really interesting to hear the differences in personal interpretations vs the judges scores. Please do this again in the future :)
Did you say no transitions in Hanyu's FS? Give me a break. Sorry guys! I can't agree with you on that.
Have they really looked at the footwork of Hanyu and Shoma? Do they have eyes? Hanyu has full of steps and turns throughout the program while Shoma is doing more two foot skating and crossovers. Shoma's program is more energy saving than Hanyu's, although they may not look so. I think Hanyu should have earn more points on PCS!
While I don't agree with everything, I agreed with a lot of it and I like any discussion on skating that is detailed and thoughtful.
Excellent work! I think this might be my favorite TSL yet. More PCS analysis in the future.
Agree with your MKMoment. Sui and Han were sublime! Great analysis btw - you guys are critical but mostly constructively so. Keep up the good work!
Yuzuru has zero transitions? I find his long program bland too, but that's just not true. You hashtagged Yuzu's name on Twitter to bait his fans, only to tell outright lies about him. Sleazy. If you're going to spew ~alternative facts~ about him, at least don't use his name to gain clicks and traffic.
agreed. I actually agree with a lot of their points about Yuzuru performance and interpretation at 4CC, and I also don't particularly like his FS, but i find it very disingenuous to put him on the same level as Nathan Chen in terms of transitions.
Thank You Jonathan, Do The Big Jumps With The Music! In the case of Nathan Chen, the kid grew quite a bit very quickly and his muscles are a little behind...He'll gain hat and fill out as well as increase his coordination over the next year and be serious challenge the Olympic Gold as well as in 5 years!!!
Karen needs to change coaches...Yesterday!
Based off of what we saw and know from Europeans and 4CC I would agree that Virtue/Moir and the French are clearly the top 2 teams just as they've been all season, with Virtue/Moir somewhat easily the top team (the international judges this year clearly really really really want to give it to them). I would then say the Shibutani's are solidly in third by a fairly comfortable margin. I wouldn't even bother grouping them with Chock/Bates as they do here. This video doesn't discuss it, but I think it's interesting and probably pretty telling how much the Shibutani's beat out Chock/Bates here (and in a late season event in which both teams had 2 pretty clean skates). And when was the last time Chock/Bates won an entire event over the Shibutani's? It's been quite some time, with the Shibutani's coming out on top the second half of last season and so far all of this season if I'm recalling correctly.
Something i find kind of interesting.. if I remember right, the Shibutani's FD score at 4CC beats out the French's FD score at Europeans, again both skates were done late in the season and both free dances were relatively clean as far as I can remember. This lead to the Shibutani's having a higher total competition score over the French as well when comparing Europeans to 4CC. Yes I know there were different judging panels at each event so it's not fair to make apples to apples comparisons but it's certainly interesting. And we already know the Shibutani's short dance has the potential to outscore the french's as they did it already at the GPF (and may of done so when comparing Europeans to 4CC, I can't remember either teams score off the top of my head but I do remember the French finished in 3rd at the Europeans, a much weaker ice dance field than 4CC this year, and the Shibutani's finished in 2nd).
Having said all this, I still won't go so far to say the Shibutani's will outscore the French at worlds, I'm just not willing to break the clear consensus on the top two teams.. but I do think the Shibutani's may not be all that far from catching the number 2 team and could be closer to reaching them than most think (looking at just seasons best scores puts them well in the hunt). Like I said earlier though there's no way of them catching Virtue/Moir, I think they've got this Worlds clinched barring unforeseen disaster.
I went back to watch S/H's LP again and they actually had real transitional moves going into the 3 Toes.
I agree that Hanyu looks down a noticeable amount of time, and I feel that he executes some of his choreography half-heartedly/not full out/not with the level of commitment of other skaters.
I think that was true here at 4CC because he was changing his program along, but i don't think it is true in general.
I know they weren't elegant, but I felt Little Talks and Titanic were much more Mariah than the Nancy Kerrigan thing that they are trying to do to her. Also, I think that people have revisionist history when it comes to Polina a little bit. It's a much deeper field now, and when she was a "solid 8", Kanako and Rika were still beating her (plus she has high base value but gets the unders too).
Dave, the hands behind the back is a technique that was given to Lubov into all her jumps to keep her upper body still. I'm guessing they had to just incorporate that into the program and they made Dylan match her. Notice they do it in the short too.
Why does Ghost get a bad rap? I could see if you use over-the-top voiceovers like Ilinykh & Katsalapov that it can become too much, but I think Alexa & Chris's music is pleasant and has variety. The big elements are placed well on the swells of the music, which Jonathan had just gotten done criticizing Meagan & Eric for not doing. If you know Alexa & Chris's previous couple long programs, you know this is a considerably better vehicle for them. I came away feeling really good after watching them. Jonathan knows more about music than I do, but I like the Ghost selections they are using.
It's just personal preference. They chose the most beautiful parts of the Ghost soundtrack IMO. Their version of Unchained Melody is really pretty. Some people dislike music or programs that make any reference to love (in that case I wonder why they're watching pair skating). These are some of the same people who criticize skaters for not showing enough chemistry lol. Lori Nichol has done great work, but then you also have people who don't like the work she's done with skaters like Gracie Gold. There are mixed opinions on virtually every choreographer and music selection. You can never please everyone.
I like their music. And Nathan Chen's music. And I'm a little difficult to please with music. Their LP works well for them and while I'm not sure about every change they made to their SP, that one works well for them too. After so much missed training time, they were impressive. Strong pair event here.
I personally like Ghost when it's done right, which in this case, I believe it is. And I like what they did with the Come What May music too, by adding a little instrumental section.
I'm glad someone else said it. I don't like Hanyu Free Skate at all. The short is okay not bad but that long is hell of boring!!! Uno I love both of his programs and I'm shocked that the judges don't give him more PCS. Of course some of the categories are less than Hanyu but still.... Nathan is like all of our little brother that we will throw all the points at in the US because we haven't had a top guy that can do Quads and get barely by with artistry since dare I say it Timothy Goebal or Michael Weiss..... Which neither guy was that strong in artistry. Of course Nathan is a much better skater than Jin but he's an solid 7.75 to 8.25 skater.
Jhonasan!, You rock! I completely agree with you about Shoma's 95!! His skating is so smooth,his back straight,beautiful from head to toe. I guess judges are giving higher PCS to Hanyu due to past performance record as Tara said. Hope Judges will judge the performance not the past achievement.
interesting format of commentary-- but can you guys post the scores on the screen as you talk? I lose track of each score and how they compare with the same scores from other teams.... maybe a running table at the bottom?
MrSk8ingfan will do this for future episodes. Was in a hurry to get this up.
The commentators are obviously so biased and I doubt whether they know what transitions are...
It'll be a miracle if the us gets 3 spots
The prayer circles need to begin NOW
So basically for Nathan is look up, have energy, good posture, and add more transitions.
Dave,Can u send this video to those judges since we all know their names now? And then can you send it to the IJS council?--traci
After watching the nhk review with Sandra I'm more forgiving with the miss programs this season, but will judge the programs next season extra seriously tho.
Btw I think Mai Mihara should go to Akiko Suzuki for choreographies for next season. I'm sure she would be a lot easier to improve than Rika Hongo...
Agreed. Mai is a solid canvas right now...she just needs some good paint! Better music, better costumes, better programs. She's packaged like a junior this year and that's what she comes off looking like. She has lovely jumps and decent consistency; she could be a factor. It's just that her vehicle this season is snoozeville. It'd love to see her work with Akiko on choreography and expression. That would really bring her skating to another level..
Tom Z. seems to have a habit of watering down the choreography for the routines of his skaters. He did the same thing with Max's Swan Lake program. I think Mirai should switch to Kori and Rohene
In general, skaters often get programs choreographed and then end up modifying the choreo once they do run-throughs with all the elements. Mirai may feel she needs to water down the choreo in places for the sake of the technical elements. And some skaters can handle more choreo than others. Mirai has had underrotation issues, so she might be trying to save up extra energy. It's easy to just blame a coach, but a lot goes into something like this.
If you skate to east of eden, you are always competing against MK. You will always lose to her. Stop the madness.
YES!
Coach Planner True!!!
I happen to think tanako machida's East of Eden is pretty majestic
Kwan's East of Eden program was my favourite for years, until Machida skated to that music, now his performance is the best for me.
Jonathan have you watched competitive contemporary dance? They are always motioning things like falling and other stuff like this.
I've worked with several modern dance Choreographers...although the pantomime exists in the dance world as well, it is often frowned upon as the "Obvious" choice. I get why they do it...it just seems too predictable for my taste. I feel like there would be a way to show the same idea with a more sophisticated idea.
Jonathan Beyer I want to say I love listening to your point of view. It is very refreshing and knowledgable. I want to explain that the majority of my dance experience has been in the competitive world which is different in than the professional world. Your comment about miming was followed by..something like "this is a dance". It is commonplace in competitive dance to see a dance place her hands over her eyes when the song says something about being blind or seeing...or touch their heart, or place their hand over their mouth. Even professional commercial choreographers use it at times. You will see it often in Travis Walls work especially the stuff he does for competitions. His Emmy nominated piece wind beneath my wings heavily uses the "wing shapes" and the partner beneath the wings. It is a lovely piece but is a good example of relying on the words to produce the shapes. That being said, cheesy as it may be, if the words in the music say rise up, I don't want you going down in a lunge.
Dave is great, but I like how every year Kirsten's partnership is "not working", but the bottom ranked US team is always "promising". Ashley C would be considered tall even in singles. And it affects everything, including her posture. A short guy could be a good basketball player, but you don't see them in the NBA. Only with Sui and Han the smaller difference isn't so noticable, and even they started out with a big differential. Maybe they're not perfect matches but at least Canadian pairs have the one foot height difference thing down.
I agree about Mariah.
Dear The skating Lesson, Your assessment of Mai Mihara is unfair and rather harsh, as she has just made an amazing comeback from a crippling arthritis condition that kept her sidelined for over a year. . She skates with speed, flow and with an assurance that she will definitely land her jumps. Her program was technically flawless, and her jumps the highlights. And she did a great job. She is still very young. and in time her presentation can and should improve. There is room and enough time for her to grow, but her athletic ability puts her in a world class league.
I think Dave and Jonathan were unduly harsh on their scoring of Mirai. It is true that Mirai was very serious throughout most of the program, showing some emotion only towards the end. But that should only affect one mark- Performance/Execution. And her transitions were not non-existent. They weren't fancy or intricate, but they were there, except for a few jumps at the end. Personally, I would rather see Mirai jump like she did at this event even if it means she has to leave out some meaningless moves that are there only to get points. Here is how I would have scored her overall:
SS-8.5 (good speed, multi-directional, one-foot skating)
Tr-7.75
Comp.-8.5.
P/E-8
I-8.5 (She did interpret the music, even if she didn't have a fake grin pasted on throughout the program, which is what people seem to want)
Total-66
I think this would have given her the gold.
Thanks for your analysis of Mirai's PCS. It's nice to see and I do think she should have gotten higher PCS, I just think 66 is a tad bit high. I probably would feel comfortable giving her something around 64. She got around 62, Which is her highest PCS score for a free skate to date. If she would have gotten the 66 PCS you mentioned it only would have bumped her up to silver. Unfortunately, her slip up in the SP hindered her chances of getting the gold over Mai. She would've needed a full five points more if she had hoped to win the gold. But I hope she could win the 4cc gold at some point. Perhaps next year.
66 is what the numbers (factored) add up to. Which component do you think should be lower?
Re: Gracie's failure-to-thrive... This is a slightly hypothetical question, but whyyy do so many skaters/coaches/choreographers, like, fail to change X or Y when it's very very very clearly not working? Gracie's footwork-into-3T has, as Johnny Weir mentioned at Nationals, not worked for her all season. Why does no one say Heyyyy let's change that! What're these skaters' paying for if not to have a team of experts available to work with them and their programs throughout the entire season?
I would love to see Ashley Cain with Eric Radford - talk about matching lines. His natural elegance would look fantastic next to her. Tim LeDuc is great but his line doesn't quite match Ashley's as well (it's close) and there's not enough height difference. Still, Cain & LeDuc are doing very well and have come so far in such a short time.
I really miss Jenny Kirk. A LOT. TSL has definitely decreased in quality since her departure. Sad!
SayYesToAwesome if there are specific things you would like discussed or addressed or something specific you'd like in terms of A/V, please let us know. Jenny is certainly talented and has chosen to focus on school.
SayYesToAwesome don't be a fucking bitch. TSL is awesome
Hi - I just re-read my post and was like, damnnnn I'm a bitch! I didn't intend to be so bitchy - just that I missed Jenny. I didn't need to throw any shade your way. I would say that since Jenny left, the sound quality is not as good - sometimes the sound is a little muffled. I have watched so many of your videos. Thanks for making so many of them!!! Sorry for the shade!
I totally earned that bitch comment because I completely sounded like one. Sorry for my Gracie-Gold-Diva-Esq moment. I love TSL.
SayYesToAwesome nah I'm just protective of TSL. I love it!
A Marta karolyi system would be great
evaekvall143 I feel pretty convinced of something like this. A "the ranch" like atmosphere at times during the year. Being a classically solitary sport, this team-like training environment may be a shock to the USFS system but could do wonders! We lack a cohesive group of solid skaters on the world stage. Polish and train technique and skating skills, to give the US the best chance to have 3 spots in all disciplines. Would really like to see this happen!
That didn’t age well...
can someone explain to me how the pcs scores work? like how it goes from the 5 criterias to the final score?
Next time, Google it.
Each criteria is worth 10.00 max (Judges can differentiate the scores in 0.25. ie. there is no scores like 9.14, 9.35... must be like: 7.00, 7.25, 7.50, 7.75... so on). For Mens, criteria is factored by 2 & Ladies is factored by 1.6. Thus, Mens can earn maximum 100 points ([5 criterias] x [10.00 max] x [factor of 2] = 100) and Ladies can earn up to 80 points (5 criteria x 10 points max s factor by 1.6 = 80).
Am I the only one who doesn't get why Virtue and Moir are considered so much better than the rest of the field. I prefer the precision of the Shibutanis and the passion of Chock and Bates. I saw some mistakes by Scott in their programs. Do they get a pass?
idolfan9495 Basically!!!!
idolfan9495 Agreed! Also - unpopular opinion but, I still don't get what V/M's program is about, what is it they're trying to tell me. Their FD is heavily PapCiz inspired (they're basically doing what P/C did last year, only to different music) and I don't think it suits them.
sharon is on your side ;)
Their skating skills are great and Tessa dance really well, but I agree they are not so above of the rest. And God, the FD is terrible, poor guys. I hope next season they get the programs they deserve.
yes you are
I don't see the US keeping those 3 spots. The field is too deep at worlds this year. 3 Russians, at least 2 Japanese, 1 American, 1 Italian and 2 Canadians.
That's 9 spots. Sad to say I have zero faith in Karen Chen. I think Mariah Bell could pull it off but she'd need to knock it out of the park in both programs to have a shot. Last year 8th place scored 200+ in total score. Neither Mariah nor Karen (nor Mirai) have hit that number internationally.
It's not looking good people...
Leave it to Dave to reduce Arvo Part's highly celebrated and respected by actual classical musicians "Spiegel im Spiegel" to music from a car commercial. Here's some reading: crosseyedpianist.com/2012/06/23/infinite-reflections-parts-spiegel-im-spiegel/