Any time I tried to express myself or my needs, I was told I was causing drama, or he would respond "ugh this again" or "this is boring". He had me questioning myself and my intentions over and over. It became clear that I could never say the right thing. He would then subject me to lengthy periods of silent treatment. It was beyond hurtful and humiliating.
My husband works with cancer and had the privilege of attending a yearly conference of the world's best/leading cancer professionals in Lyon, France. These are the scientists who determine treatments worldwide and publish in prime medical journals. My husband was astonished by how HUMBLE and pleasant these learned professionals were throughout the event. Truly gifted/intelligent people are not show-offs. They don't need to be.
I could see doctors being more psychopathic than narcissistic. Psychopaths will be kind, humble, etc......for a price. 😈 Most of them probably do love their doctor jobs and don't mind helping people because they usually get a lot of money/prestige/power. Narcissists are the type that are like "me, me, me", and "aren't I great?" and "I'm the best person ever!" Narcissists are usually more nurses or care aids. (Note: there are empath nurses too, but I'm just saying it's a mixed pot usually) And Narcissists don't make good doctors. Psychopaths, meanwhile, can put their "ego" aside for the greater good, IF it benefits them, of course. Which it does, because they get $$$$$$$ and power. I'd imagine if there was a "the official CEO doctor of France" or "the best scientist doctor of Denmark" (sorry I'm bad with doctor terms) then I'm pretty sure a psychopath would love to be known by that title in their country.
@@specialtwice4975 In my 60+ yrs of life, I've encountered both Narcissists and Empaths in those Fields. I've had Narcissistic Doctors and A couple Empathic ones. I've got a Very Empathic Nurse Daughter and a Very Narcissistic Nurse Sister In Law. Every Profession has variety of Personality Types.
I have a neighbor who is a cheerful Narc. Only wants to talk about her concerns, gets bored or seems distracted when it's your concern, is fake while conversing with others, remembers or keeps score with who did what then wants to collect on it etc. Very deceptive where you wonder when the shit is gonna hit the fan! Always on edge with this person. Had to release the Narc!
When someone tosses word salad at you - they are doing so to make themselves look smart. A truly intelligent person scales their language and description to the audience, but if someone shows interest/knowledge they will up the level of discourse. Anyone who acts like they shouldn't have to explain themselves, or that something is correct because they said it - is NOT THAT SMART - they are insecure and are covering up their lack of knowledge with bluster. As some have said about education, "if you can't explain it, then you don't really know it." One of my favorite quotes is "The fool is happy they know so much, while the wise person is sad they know so little" - if a theoretically smart person is proud of their knowledge - you might be dealing with a fool. A very smart and credentialed fool - but a fool none the less.
I would add “victim narcissist” to this list. They have a long list of how they’ve been hurt, attacked, abandoned, triggered. They project a feeble brave front in the face of all their tragedy but they never ever take even a slice of responsibility for any part in any of it. If you get involved with them you will eventually become one of their ‘abusers’. They are so proficient with their mask of sad victimhood that you feel like a terrible person for suspecting they might be manipulators.
I think Dr. Ramani refers to that as the “covert narcissist.” She describes it in detail in other videos. Basically, they feel entitled to special treatment, attention, opportunities, etc without investing time and effort to earn those things. They feel sullen and resentful and act like a victim when they don’t get the things they feel entitled to. They lack empathy toward the hard work that other people invest to earn the good stuff they have.
@@CD_RN_Independent_VoterJust remember all narcs are actually capable of exhibiting (both) overt & covert behaviors depending on the 🎯/situation/time/place.They may even heavily lean into 1 or the other but they can dip into the other type of behaviors too😬.
This is my only sibling - a 'sister', with whom I have gone no contact. She's tried to hoover me three times to no effect. The last time, about two months ago, she was waiting for me outside of my chiropractor's office like a spider. I only felt revulsion. She asked how I was and I replied 'good'. I asked how she was. She stood up and said 'better than I was'. I replied 'good' and walked right past her, got in my car and drove away. No hoovering since then.😊
I also find it suspicious and troubling when people keep the focus on me without saying much about themselves. It feels more like an invasion of ones privacy, especially when they don't reciprocate by sharing much about themselves.
Too many busy-bodies out there, and usually out of jealousy they'll interrogate you, searching for something to bring you down, in their devious attempts to build themselves up. Wolves in sheep's clothing
I recently made friends with a woman who dominates conversations everytime we are together. Gradually she has become aggressive if you ask a question or contribute to the conversation. She'll say "I don't care its about me" or "I''m not interested"Recently she called when i was having lunch with my son. at a restaurant, She asked what I was doing. Shortly afterward she showed up uninvited. She tried to triangulate my son against me. Later she became verbally abusive when alone. I'm so done with her. I refuse to return her calls.
Being socially anxious as a child I can remember when contributing to a conversation that I'd always make it about me and it would seem as if I was trying to 1 up people, when inside I was desperately trying to show that I could relate with a similar experience. Tough social lesson learned. 🙂 ❤
This is actually a very common way neurodivergent people communicate and connect. There is nothing wrong with that. Actually most people I regularly converse with this is more the norm rather than an exception
I did grow up like this. I am 71 years old. Since my parents both have passed, I reflect on my whole life and still struggle with scars that are imbedded in my mind. My sister, who is the queen of Narcism has found it necessary to disown me after my parents passed. I have spent about 4 years of grieving the loss. Watching your podcast have been so helpful in healing from her abuse. Thank you!
Please know that your sister isn't worthy of your time, and she did YOU the favor. Having to appease someone all the time, and only receiving crumbs from them gets tiring. Live out your new life now, without her toxins. Stay busy with hobbies, and treat yourself like you would treat someone like you!
My mom is a narcissist. I always knew something was off, but didn't have the language or knowledge to know what it was until I was 54. As a young person, I had a hard time emotionally regulating and needed to learn social skills. Being a good listener and not bringing the conversation back to myself was one of those skills that I had to learn, because it wasn't modeled to me. Thank you for all you do, Dr. Ramani.
I learned to be a really good listener because of my narc mother. I am just realizing and I am 64. I am just glad I am finally understanding. There has always been a fog of confusion about my mom for me. Thanks for your share. It helped.
Most people relate a topic to themselves when speaking. Basically relaying their personal experience with the topic. The difference is that some people refuse to listen to anyone else.
omg the fall asleep on the phone happened to me ,one hour later i picked up the phone and they were still talking ,It made me smile so wide that my presence wasnt even needed
When you wanna vent to a friend and they are grossed out beyond rational thinking and then they say exactly how they don't have that problem because.... blah blah. They only can brag about their perfect children, perfect marriage that is long gone, their perfect teenage social life, etc etc etc Several times told that 99% of people love them so anyone who doesn't is wrong. Contempt for anything they feel like, especially when driving... dumb drivers. And then repeating their issues ad nauseum... "Can you believe it?"... and off they go again.
The "I have to go somewhere" as an excuse to end a conversation is a classic narcissistic trick. My ex does this all the time: "I have to get to work" is typically his way of slithering out of a conversation that is not going his way.
Not just a narc move. It helps to see the toxic level is too much, so as a target, you can excuse yourself, too. "Ok, time to go." Is my escape words. Where am I going? I don't explain, just repeat or say, "See you " Sometimes, I just get the heck out of there without a word. The narc just sits there, mouth gaping, or maybe gaslighting, raging, or hoovering. I don't care, I'm out of there.
I've stayed somewhat isolated for the last few years, but in a healthy way, where I enjoy my hobbies and just being away from other's drama. When I do get out to meet with a small group for dinner, I feel excited to share in the conversations, but at the same time I'm cognizant about not over sharing or one-upping anyone.
My PhD supervisor at an Ivy legue university was a cerebral narcissist. I survived...barely. Spent 20 years working in that environment. In private practice now. Best transition I ever made. Never again.
Thank goodness you’re free. I can imagine your work environment is much happier now and better for overall wellbeing. Hopefully, I will also find a way to break free of my narcissistic work environment, so I can feel happier and healthier. It’s not cerebral narcissism, but it’s antagonistic, self-serving, gaslighting, coercive, cold, and merciless.
Hallelujah! Same here. I had to get EMDR therapy to recover from the trauma of academia. Not pursuing work in that environment was a life affirming and joyful decision 🎉
My mother was a severely depressed alcaholic , drug addict who was always self medicating with drugs and alcahol. When coming down off her high she would Rage at anybody snd everybody withIn her Reach, and , frequently, she would often Rage or Rant falsely accusing me of something I did Not Do and sometimes did Not even Know about, until Later, so her drug addicted rages often ended up. with " and it's All Your Fault !" So in general conversations, I found myself frequently Oversharing, Constantly feeling the need to Explain myself, or Over explain myself, always on edge, tiptoeing on eggshells, I was constantly apologizing until people started commenting on it. In my urgency to explain myself and be clear, I often Overshared, and interrupted a Lot . This is something I Still find myself doing and I Struggle with it, and it makes me Cringe to even think of it.
I cringe at the conversational thing because my ADHD makes me prone to saying 50 things about myself or my experience when I really should've said 1. It is honestly just verbally following my inner experience in realtime, which is rather like a golden retriever at a dog park 😅.
RE: conversational narcissists. My ex-FIL (very overt narcissist) once asked me if I liked horses. I recall thinking to myself -- "Wow, he's asking something about me, how cool and unusual!" So, I bit, and said, yes, I really did, thinking we were, for once, going to have an actual conversation. But he immediately followed up with "Well, we just met this woman who ownshorses, blah blah blah." I felt like Charlie Brown and Lucy with the football. WHY did I fall for it?? So relieved that when I divorced my husband I no longer had to deal with his very toxic family.
One of the ways it seems one could discern the difference between a cerebral narcissist and a super smart nerd seems to be the joy that the nerd shares information. Even if it's over your head it still, they pique your interest and inspire curiosity and joy of learning.
One of my three Marine sons is such a humble individual, with his degree in aerospace engineering. His ability to captivate an audience, having them wanting more is such an experience to behold. Brains and Braun, and the most selfless individual.
You are right. I'm a professor. My best students, of whom I am immensely proud, were all extremely enthusiastic about their fields and topics, and they went on to become academic authorities in their fields. They did sound a bit arrogant at 20, but who doesn't? They were safe with me - unfortunately there are colleagues who feel threatened by this kind of kid. Because it's very different to see a smart, hard-working 20 year old boldly confronting "the adults" to argue passionately in favor of their hypothesis, and to see a 50 yr old full professor doing the same thing. One is a cool kid, the other is a narcissistic asshole.
Supplemental: ADHD is an *interest-based neurology.* That’s ok. The downside is if a person’s biggest interest is theirself - It’ll come across as narcissism. So I’d encourage anyone with ADHD to learn to care about others because your emotions are on your sleeve. 💙 If you primarily focus on others then find yourself zoning out, it may mean you need time for self care. There’s nothing wrong with you. You just need more self check-ins. Don’t fall over backwards for others either.
Well said. A friend who is diagnosed ADHD and on medication for it explained how it works in his head, how he feels in conversation, that he´s bursting to say something and finds it difficult to restrain from taking over the conversation, which then comes across as narcissistic.
Thank you! I told my therapist I think I'm a narcissist because I love to share my personal stories in social settings and think I need/have to provide 'entertainment' to be accepted. I'm always working on ways to stfu and let others have equal time. It's damn hard!! 😅😢 My therapist laughed so hard coz I have extreme adhd. Nope, I'm not a narcissist. Just need to constantly rein it in.
Fascinating! I always try to control how much I talk about myself because it can be a real issue due to my isolated career. One of the ways I deal with this is to ask people questions about themselves
My ex and I are both writers, scholars and academics, and what my ex would do is not so much bring the conversation back to his own experience, as bring it back to his own area of expertise, so that any conversation became a conversation about the thing that he had the most to say about, that he was the authority on-or that he liked to *pose* as the authority on. He was desperate to be seen as an authority.
While being a PhD student, I met a professor in a conference here in Canada. I was with a Bolivian colleague, and during a conversation, the narcissist professor mentioned that the Bolivian guy must be having a hard time in winter as he is used to the tropics. When I told the professor that La Paz is above 4,000 meters altitude and winters can be cold there, the narcissist became arrogant towards us due to his mistake.
The self righteous narcissist definitely fits with what I experienced. It truly was miserable. I never knew when I would do something that wasn’t “the right way” and get criticized or corrected for it. There was always something new that I didn’t know. Thank you for this video!!
I have social anxiety very bad and iv noticed when extremely nervous I do accidentally interrupt sometimes cause I'm trying to be part of the conversation , and I know it comes across as narcissistic if people don't know me.
I'm not sure how anyone Accidentally blurts out subjects, maybe say what you'd like to say in your mind first. Then at a pause say what you think or ask a question ❤❤❤❤❤
@annajezkova1517 I wasn't giving advice, I was simply pointing out what Dr. Romani stated was true, ppl with social anxiety can come across that way too.
@@KoolTNope… No one accidentally does… But people who are very busy talking about themselves and dominating the conversation rarely give pauses long enough for anyone to contribute and feel a part of the socializing… So it seems like blurting if you are trying to be involved and the rest of it is going so fast. I’ve watched situations like this go on and it usually also happens because the narcissist has expressed issues with the fact THAT THE OTHER PEOPLE are not involved in the conversation enough… Meanwhile they never take a breath and allow it. LMAO
I gain so much knowledge from the comment section as well…I value your data as well as your audiences data they share in the comments…it helps one realize how abundant the narcissistic personality type is in the world and that what I’ve lived through isn’t an isolated thing….there are people out there that do know what it’s like and know it’s not an exaggeration and that does help so much…so thank you and your audience for all your help…
There may also be social problems involved, but I think sometimes people are trying to empathize to the other person that they do understand by giving examples from their life.
I was introduced to an actor who dominated the conversation for the next half hour then said, "well enough about me, what do you think of me." I almost laughed because I thought he was kidding, but he wasn't. Thank you for doing this video. You point out that people who talk about themselves, know a lot, are very cheerful or have a lot of rectitude can also be empathic, humble and caring. Looking at the overall personality and it's relationship and effect on others is key. This is very helpful to me.
I did the wedding photography for a Self Righteous Communial Narc.... many years ago... I didn't have the "words" to describe her personality.... She to this day, loves the stage, at Churches~~ loves the AWARD CEREMONY, where she is high and lifted up as Super Altruistic Woman! Yet, she seems to often look down from her elevated stance and belittle the very people she claims to help and care about. Her wedding was more of a SHOW than any I have ever worked.. 😂😅 I keep her at arms length when our paths cross... Even when she "leads Worship" (she truly has a great voice) all the 🎵 🎶 are about her.... not THE LORD
Absolutely .. my husband hated me because I am normal .. I am emotional and human and he is self-righteous .. you said it all Dr. Ramany .. i lived swimming in his judgement and rage .. once he told me that i ruined his life to the extent that he will kill himself if he had the chance to. Can you imagine how was my life full of fear and panic attacks.. I waited 29 years till I found your videos. I managed to leave and heal myself ..I am still following your healing program but I am doing great, I published my first book and writing the second so THANK YOU
My husband told me I prevented him from living his dream of being a rock star because I didn't keep the house quite clean enough. We had 4 or 5 kids at that point 🙄 He also blamed me for ruining his day off when I was bleeding out with a miscarriage, and then got pissy when I got all the attention from the church supporting me.
Dr Ramani did an explainer of the difference between Narcissism and Autism which is relevant; autistic people often give you an example from their own experience to show that they have an idea where you're coming from. To show empathy. The idea is that you can't know exactly what someone else is feeling so you show them the nearest you have, for comparison.
Ironically, in therapy to survive my narc mom, I was taught the value of “i statements” and over time, the general idea of how you can’t speak for others and must preface all things with “in my experience” or some-such because your own experience is all you have any authority on. (So eventually talking only about oneself or from their own perspective becomes the only acceptable way to communicate without “overstepping” or misrepresenting the truth” or “making up facts). Not to mention that it’s hard to show someone you sympathize without saying you know exactly how they feel = once again, sharing your own experience. And now I’m hyper-aware of how I shouldn’t talk about myself too much or ppl will perceive me as a narc. Or maybe I am. Help I think I’m going crazy. Edit: social anxiety def played a role. I was rewarded socially for overcoming my awkwardness. It was a mask. I got more acceptance for putting forward a more conversational/intellectual narc-y persona and punished for being my weird neurodivergent self. I thought something was inherently wrong with me, but behold!!!! I can fake it like the best of them. So it became clear to me at a young age that high cerebral talk was going to keep me out of the hot seat. You’ve seen it before: “you’re so clever, I don’t understand why you struggle with school. You just need to apply yourself”) Adding to the convo is like jumping a hurdle, then you gotta sprint to the next one or you’ll fall. The spinning and burning in my mind and chest from the anxiety of being perceived by others can be hard to listen through. “If I’m not interesting/special/correct then I will be rejected because people will have zero need for me, in fact they’ll be repulsed by me”. I spent too much time with the mask on and now I can’t tell if it’s me or not. Just the story of a girl whose own narc mom helped her to believe she had to earn the air she breathed, hide her authentic self, and mistrust anybody who liked her genuinely (while still being embarrassingly hungry for their praise). No joke, she told me outright that anybody who was a friend to me was a bad person cuz either 1) they were lying/faking liking me as a cruel joke, or 2) were not to be trusted because only bad people genuinely liked me.
My ex was definitely a self-righteous narcissist. I said in an earlier comment that my ex was all four of these subtypes mixed together. But now that I’ve heard the profile of the self-righteous narcissist, it sort of encompasses most of my ex’s narcissistic traits. This video is a wonderful gift to me from Dr. Ramani and from my higher power because we actually just finalized our divorce at 9:30 this morning.
Youngest sister, of five siblings, developed the self-righteous mindset, when our malignant narcissist mother made her the executor of her estate. We all suffered at the hands of this evil woman, but this particular sister received compensatory treatment/benefits, after I shamed our mother for her part in this sister's claims of molestation by our stepfather, and got her treatment to deal with the trauma. Our mother clearly showed anger towards me, her lifelong scapegoat, and eventually turned this sister against me. My sister is super naive, and transformed into a wolf in sheep's clothing, claiming to be all-knowing (she's 9 years younger than I). She took up religion, which was never a part of our early lives, and acts as though the neglect and abuse that the rest of us endured was nothing, compared to what she experienced. She can't comprehend that what our mother subjected the rest of us to has any bearing on the choices that we make in our futures, and how the poor foundation that our mother laid for us is a problem. I don't play victim, and never have, but instead I went on to thrive in life, with the hunger for knowledge. My talents and skills, from a very early age, were the envy of our mother. She never acknowledged my gifts, other than to downplay them, and any offerings of assistance from her were meant solely to retain control over me. Her inability to do so brought on so much hate for me, and as a young teen I showed so much independence, from saving money and working my ass off, in a desperate attempt to remove myself from her grasp. I was the one that the family knew would succeed, and I did, but the price I had to pay for going no-contact with my entire family outraged the lot of them, as I escaped their sick world.
@@SteeleMagnolia I relate so much to your experience. I have gone no contact with most of my family excluding my mother and some cousins. My parents emigrated when my older brother and sister were 13&14, leaving them with family, I was 7. We are now in our 40s. They have resented me since and my sister in particular is the instigator. My mother overlooked their mistreatment for years, I believe due to her guilt of abandoning them. Recently, she has acknowledged their behaviors and supports my decision to go no contact. I have poured myself into work and education because it is the only thing that gives me balance and structure. It's genuinely difficult being out here in this world without family to fall back on, but I have some good friends and self love. ❤
Back in the day I would overshare - and I'm sure that some people thought I was being "conversationally narcissistic", though I doubt they would have used those words at that time. It took me a long, long time to learn how to stop myself. It was compulsive behaviour, and I didn't want to do it
Excellent point Dr. Ramani. I had to learn Active Listening Skills. I am far from being Narcissistic, but I would tend to get excited when around an interesting individual. I didn't mean to interrupt, ect. A good friend helped me with this and I will always be thankful to her. Great video!
Honestly, almost everything in this video is 100% aligned with the autistic experience, to the extent that any allistic individual who watches this video may walk away thinking autistic individuals they have encountered are narcissists. This is the first time I think Dr. Ramani misses the mark on a nuanced wrap up (at least with info for folks who may not be curious to explore the differences between autism and narcissism on their own). Perhaps the biggest/most obvious difference is there’s no need for attention/feedback or “holding court” with these behaviors in autists. Each section through an autistic lens could be renamed: 1) relating in conversation 2) info dumping 3) masking leading to dysregulation, shutdown, and inevitable burnout 4) empathic attunement, ethical behavior, and rigid thinking
The self righteous narcissist is my husband. I am so happy to hear you describe this so I know I'm not crazy. It almost lifts a wright off my chest. My poor kids were raised in this manner where I tried to stop it as much as I could. Thank you so much!!!
The narcs in my family are so volatile that if I had the ability to share the stories of their antics, they would make sure they shut me up….these people are so insecure that they take any knowledge of who they really are as a death threat and will reciprocate the threats they’re perceiving ….they’re dangerous just being loose in the world..,.and I know what my brother has been involved in and know he should be in prison for life for it all but the law values him because he snitches on people…the cops let him get away with murder….
My mom is a self righteous narcissist!!! Sheesh It took this video finding me today right when I needed it. It’s one thing to accept a person as they are, but when you can understand the person’s mental illness it easier to acknowledge that this person may or may not ever take accountability for their own shortcomings. I’ve worked in the mental health field for 15 years and I have dealt with all kinds of mental illness and I have become very knowledgeable of how to help these individuals cope, however when it’s your mom who has continuously discredited and disregarded your accomplishments it is hard to get her to understand she is the one who needs to seek therapy to understand why she is the way she is. Thank you 🙏🏾 so much Dr. Ramani for always coming through with clarification, personal relevancy as well as your professional opinion and expertise!
For too many years I allowed my narcissistic mother to define who I was. After discovering what narcissism was, years ago, I took back myself, and went no-contact with the evil woman that brought me into this world.
I can see how this concept of conversational narcissists would reveal your situation. It’s probably much more likely your mother was just a narcissist. I intuitively knew my mother was not right as a child. So I did my best to not let her define me. This was to my benefit and detriment. But I got married young and although that was also her doing and I divorced him and eventually escaped both of them. I’m 63 and have always felt I wasn’t doing enough or enough. But I now see I’m doing enough and I have actually accomplished enough. This is a lifelong struggle to free your soul.
@@brigitte9999 you are absolutely right my mother is a narcissist by all definitions and I’ve know something was not right with my mom since a child and unfortunately was lead to believe that I was the problem. Especially the way she would down play me to other family members as if I was the one with the issue, needless to say I know now at 35 this relationship with her has been long overdue for an official end! She has held me back and minimized me for long enough and I’m saying ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! Thank you to everyone that has replied under my comment with your own personal touch it truly warms me to know I’m not alone in how I feel although it’s hard to recognize, when you know better you internally and externally do better.
I've been around a lot of mentally ill loved ones before they were treated with conditions ranging from Schizophrenia to Depression...I truly feel so bad for them when they were ill & struggling before treatment because they were really suffering and don't feel good about when they behaved badly toward others😞.With narcs on the other ✋🏻 I have no pity for them, they're ruthless abusers that have 0 empathy for the people they exploit...I only pity the innocent little kids they once were BEFORE they turned into ☠️ emotional zombies that happily feast on the living.
I find myself being guilty of conversational narcissism quite often. I used to feel like I did it to connect to people and show that I was listening. But over the last few years I've caught myself doing it and I think... they didn't ask you for that info. I thought maybe my understanding of social cues was not what it should be, so I'm going to go get that tested.
@@SeiichirouUta It's usually something like, "Oh I know that show, I watched it last year what did you think of this character or the plot?" or also; "I know how you feel, when X happened to me I remember feeling exactly like that. How are you doing now?"
Loving your videos, they are so therapeutic and eye opening. One thing I can take away is that narcissist are people who use whatever power they have to dominate or oppress others instead of being emphatic and considerate of others. Great lesson teacher
Exactly. The most brilliant people -artists as well as intellectuals- are the most humble , down to earth people. It’s mind boggling- in a good way. My late father was brilliant , but so incredibly humble - he turned down a professorship opportunity at Yale because he couldn’t stand the back stabbing , jockeying for power he witnessed at events.
My sister is a cheerful narcissist. But she has to be always right, laughs at others, is actually a mean girl. Left me & my daughter totally alone after my divorce when I needed her the most. After hoping & being dissapointed again & again, I've stepped back & don't see her anymore.
Hi, I've been watching your videos for almost a year now, in many ways they have saved my life. I didn't make it that far into this one, this stuff is honestly really hard for me to digest mentally. I believe that I have been abused repeatedly by narcissistic people, but I can't stop thinking about how much of it is on me. I suppose I fall under that category of isolated and socially anxious people who talk about themselves because I literally don't know what else to talk about. At first I always think it's a good way of empathizing, only to catch myself and feel ashamed and hate myself for it. It doesn't help I guess that I grew up with a sociopathic narcissist as the only figure I had to look up to. Nothing romantic; Simply I was 15 and ran away from home, he was older, wiser, grandiose and I admired his intelligence and charisma. I wanted to be like that, instead of the weak little loser I felt like I was. At 16, I ended up working full time and supporting this person, (several years older than me), only to be shit on and yelled at and insulted every day, every night, while this person sat at home doing nothing all the time. I ran away from that situation, only to return to the EXACT SAME SITUATION almost 10 years later, with the same person. They did literally all the things I've seen you talk about on this channel; Try to convince me I'm insane, say things happened that didn't, deny that things happened that DID, make shit up all the time, tell everyone else I know embarassing shit about me just to maintain a position of power... Not to mention, I've seen your stuff on narcissists and money, and well, as the person supporting a narcissist while they had no job, let's just say I've seen some incredible mental acrobatics. Literally saw the guy grab a girl by the throat and throw her around, so I took her to safety and he accused me of doing some awful thing to him by stealing this girl away from him. "The worst thing anyone's ever done to me", according to him. And the crazy thing? I believed 90% of it the whole time. I mean the guy picked up a cat and threw it on the floor and yelled at me for running to see if it was ok. How dare I! AND I ACTUALLY FELT BAD FOR HIM! It's strange that this video came up on my feed, it's something I've been thinking about an awful lot lately. Being that, I feel like I am the 'conversational narcissist'. I don't really know most of the time what to say to someone other than to relate a personal story or something, my intention is that the person won't feel alone, like you know? To say hey, I've been there too, but a lot of the time it just ends up as me turning the conversation completely into whatever I want to talk about... I'm trying really hard to learn how to listen and respond properly when people talk about their personal issues. Honestly, inside I feel like smashing my face repeatedly off whatever is closest because I feel helpless and I feel for people... Obviously that's not helpful... But I don't know what else to do. I spent most of my life looking up to and learning from a literal sociopathic narcissist, who managed to turn every conversation into something about himself and make everyone feel good about it... Quite vomit inducing when you think about it. But l have never learned how to make another person feel like they were being heard or understood. Just how to make people feel like they're part of something that doesn't really exist. If that makes sense. Anyway Dr Ramani, thank you for your videos, I always leave a like, subscribed a long time ago. Sorry my comment may not be 100% pertinent to the video. Haven't really talked about this stuff with anyone before. Well I'm sure no one will ever read this anyway lol. 💗
Oh boy. Conversational hijacking (as I always think of it) is my dad's MO. I don't converse with him anymore because the discussion always ends up on some random tangent that has nothing to do with the original topic. When he doesn't get his way in the conversation, he up and walks away. I refuse his phone calls now because they end up an hour or two of being held hostage without getting a word in. My last boss did this too. He would fly into a room like a hurricane and try to interrupt any conversation to interject himself.
Another point regarding people who are not narcissists but who interrupt conversations all the time: they mistake showing empathy with their need to explain that they, too, have had your experience. They can't simply listen and nod, they are compelled to tell their similar story. it's highly frustrating for the person who's trying to communicate their experience and can't even get past ,"Last night when I was putting my toddler to bed, he would not stop crying--"
Omg Yes!!!😂 I can’t stand when my narcissistic mom would turn the conversation on herself when I was trying to confide in her about something I was worried about. She was so clueless and lacking self-awareness EVERY time she did that.
You’re right, just totally lacking self-awareness. Sorry you had to deal with that from someone who is supposed to be there for you. My dad does that literally every single conversation so I just had to go gray rock and keep everything surface level.
I totally feel you there. Just recently I was laid off, she used this to freak out about her job life for a few weeks. She starts applying for jobs, I have to help her with her resume and practicing interview questions. Meanwhile, I’m doing this stuff for myself without any of her support. 😂😂 at 43 years old this is just so annoying now.
@@Shenanigans_Afoot 🤣😂how funny when people lack self-awareness like that… smh… You sound so kindhearted and patient to help her while you’re also helping yourself.
@@lionelgrisbane-ud87 You’re so wise and composed to maintain a relationship with your dad & keep things pleasantly surface level. I tried doing that with my mom, but things that she did and said made it hard for me to feel good about myself. It was best for me to be estranged from her and my extended family who enable her narcissistic abuse.
I grew up with a dad and stepdad like this. My dad still after 38 years is telling me the same lies, he made up and slandered my mom with when I was a baby. He whole heartedly believes them too! I've dated a few guys like this, and I just got free last year from a friendship like the bubbly one. She always prided herself on her "Bubbly" personality and everyone better LOVE IT and think she has a heart of gold! Healing is not easy, i'll tell you that.
I know a cheerful person who I suspect is narcissistic, She seems to be so warm and caring, still when you get to know her a bit, she's contemptious and arrogant, looks down on you. She won't listen to your problems with an abusive husband, she expresses that you're stupid for staying with him. When I told her that my husband told me I was old and ugly, she said"but you have such smooth skin over here", touching her cheeks. (That was the only wrinkle-free zone on my face.) I'm in my sixties. I'm not a young beauty queen, but have received many compliments from others, so it's not that bad. My husband was jealous. She knows everything best, no matter what the subject.She's always giving advice to others. She likes to point out things you've told her in private, embarrassing things like dandruff and hairloss, to other people, asking how you're doing with the problems, in front of others. She commented cheerfully how my lipstick had blead out into my wrinkles, also in front of another person. (She is a few years older than I, and has very wrinkly skin herself.) When I arrive at the occasion, she stares at my upper lip. I just laughed it off, when she made the comment. She is usually perceived as a warm an cheerful person. She also promised to help me with something practical, in front of another person, but she never came around to doing that. It was excuse after excuse. Future faking? She talks badly of others, often disguised as concern for the person she's criticizing. It is easier to recognize a narcissistic person if he/she is sour or rigid, not warm and cheerful. No-one would believe me....I've realized some time ago that I can't be authentic with her and tell her about my problems and such.
Wow. This is the first time hearing about an awkward- anxious conversationalist which was me growing up. My Mom was a conversationalist narcissist: as a child I thought she could carry such a long conversation and I felt why can’t I find things to talk about like she does so smoothly. Now, as an adult I realize her hijacking conversation was always about herself. I learned as a teen by reading books about engaging in conversations that if I clearly not a smooth talker, I would be a smooth listener and ask questions to the person I met. By listening instead of talking I grew a genuine interest in learning about people and I was less anxious. It was my Mom’s negative voice in my head about my supposed inadequacy that made me want to improve my conversational skills. Education is power because I realized my mom was the issue, not my conversational skills, but boy did she make me anxious believing that something was wrong with me. By the way, I was the scapegoat.
@48:25 I meet many self-righteous people in the gym. They love to "share" about how hard-working, regimented, and strong-willed they are. Sometimes they don't have to announce it. It shows in how they demean other people. Side note: The "f* your feelings" t-shirt is a walking red flag.
Cheerful Narcissist, very helpful. Never heard this before but it explains a person I had to walk away from. Funny, entertaining, no depth, no interest in hearing anything of a serious nature. Their response: ,"Just let it go." When confronted, the Cheerful Narcissist will ghost you until they are ready to re-enter your life. No thanks.
Listen to them, ask questions to understand them, don't interrupt them/change the subject...I used to do this for many acquaintances and friends. But after years, I found many of these "friends" only wanted to talk about themselves. When I had needs to share, they hung up the phone, changed topics, or dismissed my thoughts and feelings. I had to distance them. It's become one-sided. Now I value my time, energy, and empathy. And I am very, very choosy about friends. I actually feel less lonely.
One of my experiences with a conversational narcissist: Once I went out with a bunch of work friends. One of them invited a friend who brought a couple of her friends along. One of these people "Sarah" totally monopolized the conversation but none of us cared because she was hilarious. However, when her friends looked at each other with bored annoyance, like 'here we go again' I did wonder why. As the night went on Sarah's jokes and anecdotes started to repeat and others tried to steer the conversation away from her increasingly redundant stories. When this happened she became more aggressive, yelling the same stories that we heard moments ago over other people who were trying to talk. It eventually escalated to the point that she actually stood up on the table yelling, 'Let's set this shit on fire!' She was asked to leave by the bar's staff and as her friends (who didn't say a word all night) stood up to follow Sarah out I could see on their faces that they were not surprised by the outcome of the evening.
Why do they choose to be hstgs? Maybe they are enablers -- why? What is their "tie" to the otherwise insufferable person? Compassion, long history of friendship, genuine wanting to include her for her, but she does not reciprocate...they need to have an intervention with her as the most compassionate, responsible, and effective way to support her growth. Up to her how she takes it.
Please be kind to yourself =) Try listening to Dr Rick Hanson and his son, Forest Hanson - Lovely podcasts, talks on youtube, very calming and I've learned loads!
After living through several dysfunctional family connections and failed relationships, I began to hear your talks. I wanted to know if I was narcissistic. Turns out I am not! And that I had just taken on the 'shadows' of the people around me. Each of the types and subtypes rings several bells. At 72 I feel as if I'm free... of all the 'shadows' that had been bestowed on me. God bless you for your clarity and compassionate talks.
So many narcissists are doctors and nurses and psychiatric doctors and for sure police and basically everyone that has a little more "power" than you. Its sickening how I have been treated. 🙄
I call these people “ one uppers”! They always, always have done it and done it bigger and better!! UGH! I also feel these people are extremely insecure
My late Aunt Betty was an established physicist. She bragged about my mother's role as a mother to her friends and colleagues. Delightful..a brilliant mind humbled .
I've been watching these videos for months now and hours upon hours of them. I'm beginning to see how much of these subtypes and characteristics of narcissism could be misused to describe people with strong and appropriately placed agency. AKA, a narcissist calling someone who isn't a narcissist, a narcissist. I find that to be quite fitting in this social media and digital age. It's a nurturing environment for the communal and self-righteous narcissist. Perfect breeding grounds that add to the already covert victimhood mentality. Narcissism, although obviously more complex than this, could be chalked up to the inability to relieve oneself of their ego and position it appropriately. There is a time and place to relieve oneself of their ego. However, there is also a time and place where your ego should be stronger than everybody else around you. Ego is part of your sense of agency. Without ego, there isn't agency. The agency to do good in the world. The agency to make the right decisions and to be honest and compassionate. The agency to defend another man or woman's honor against the egotistical attacks of a narcissist. The agency to fight, dismiss, and shut down true narcissists. I find that unless you gray rock a narcissist, or go no-contact with them, or dismiss them entirely so that they do not become your enemy, you WILL be forced into the mud with them. When you find yourself there, you best be equipped with a strong ego and sense of agency. Ego can and will be misplaced. It is precisely why we are all subject to being narcissistic from time to time. What makes a true narcissist is that they are subject to this throughout their whole life, and every facet of it, and damn near all the time. I showed this video to a friend of mine and he began to wonder whether or not he would be characterized as a self-righteous narcissist. I told him no, that is not the case. It just so happens to be that in order to fight monsters, one must become somewhat monstrous themselves. Or, truthful; powerfully truthful. And as we all know, speaking truth to power is one of the many banes of a narcissist's existence. After all, what would be most scary and monstrous to a narcissist? I would say, ultimately, that it is truth. And as we all know, they just can't face it. Thoughts?
@@ZaidIsm007 sorry for the confusion. What I mean is while I learn a lot from these videos, I also learn about my limitations. My limitations may also be by my greatest strengths. So while there's a lot of advice about not engaging in the mud with a pig because witnesses cannot tell what is going on, I may not necessarily care about public opinion and will state a hard and immovable boundary that I will fight for by not joining herd nor individuals coercions. People pleasing is a cancer.
Wow! There is even a name for such behaviors that suck your energy! Thank you from the bottom of my heart for all the information vital to our mental health
*omgosh yes* the best way to share new information with others is to pretend they’re children. not talking down, just simplifying and being gentle and answering questions. when someone is confused about what I say I pretend they’re a kid and everything ends up wholesome. not all adults know things. maybe we should all be kinder.
I will offer up my experience with a thing when it comes up in a conversation in an attempt to connect with the person talking. Like the example you said…if the speaker tells about a trip to a city…if I’ve been there, I’ll say I went too at whichever time/year. But I don’t do that to take over or hijack a convo. Most people feel a connection with others who share experiences in common.
Wow, the description of the self righteous category matches my father so well, although he was no health freak, drinking and smoking heavily as he did, but aside from that , spot on! He did get violent and raging on occasion and was terrifying. There was always this feeling of menace at home, just as you described Dr Ramani, he would utterly humiliate me for any transgression and it was like growing up in some sort of military schhool. I've had severe Complex trauma for most of my life, constantly beating myself up😥 I can't express the devastating effect it has on those growing up with the self righteous narcissist, suicidal ideation has been the biggest problem for me, just the constant feeling of unworthyness and of being a perennial failure still haunt me to this day and I'm 57 now. I was continually criticised and chastised if I ever expressed exuberance as kids do. My father was simply terrifying, it really is such a toxic environment to grow up in.
My mother was raised by a first generation immigrant from Lebanon to the U.S. The self righteous narcissism described mirrors the cultural expectations of children as well as rigid gender roles my grandmother imposed. The abuse lives on in my 80 year old mother today. She only feels loved and 'good enough' with my dad's American born extended family.
Very interesting topic. Hadn't thought of it.....How do you know if they aren't just sharing? I laughed when you said grab some popcorn and listen to them yammer on. Been there done that.
Im definitely the more socially isolated person who gets a little too excited for outside conversation 😂but I try hard to make sure I'm not dominating. My stbx would dominate conversations, but if i started talking about my day, suddenly he has no time. Ive been talking for half an hour and he's too busy (after he talked to me for 2 hours), etc. It was so frustrating.
I'm fairly certain my father was a cerebral narcissist. It's a family thing. But the expectations he had, in hindsight, were beyond unreasonable. I won't go into details because he passed away in 2020. It's not just to avoid speaking ill of the dead, but because I think he came to regret his behaviour in the weeks leading to his death. But I will say, while I grasped the importance of learning for its own sake very early, it created challenges, too. Just because a child has the vocabulary of an adult doesn't mean they are one. Many people don't look deeper. And some presume you're some sort of condescending tool. It was very isolating.
My narcissist ex-friend once changed the topic with no comment as usual even when I said I'd had a return of suicidal ideation. When I called her on it, she laughed and said "Of course I don't want you to die! Who would be [my audience]?" Then she changed the subject AGAIN! < : - o She also bragged about her IQ then lied to revise it upwards after learning a friend's was higher. Life is so much better without her!
I’d like to add, it is very common for people with hearing loss to take over/dominate the conversation as a way of keeping in control when they are missing what others are saying.
I have learned my attempts to connect to others in conversation by mentioning my similarities and then bouncing back to the other person to finish is not a good thing through videos. I always connected it to empathy. As I typed this, you addressed it.
I learned from this video that my ex-friend is a cheerful narcissist. He looks nice and charming and everyone likes him. But he divorced twice and his first spouse ran away from home 🏃♀💨💨🏡
It got so bad that he didn’t even connect what I said to his new conversation. He would completely ignore whatever I said and start talking about whatever he wanted without ever acknowledging I had spoken.
In contrast,I have a friend who used to do this but once we talked about it and some healthier communication tactics and we worked together each of us working on our part of the conversation. Now we are much closer, our friendship has improved and our closeness too.
The more I watch the more I learn! As a very generous listener raised not being heard, listened to, or minimized, there have been plenty of experiences of various narcissistic types being attracted to me for sometime, because they're receiving undivided attention with genuine questions and follow up interest, until.... 😅 There's always a caveat or segue to loosing their interest for someone freshly engaged and hasn't heard their top 10 stories or "life lessons" or narrow scope of subjects of interest to them, on repeat. The one common thread is it is always about them, even in showing generosity, or positivity, its about their emotional and mental and physical needs and wants at exclusion to all others, unless it temporarily serves their needs for admiration, positive validation, and acknowledgement. I am curious about personality disorder comorbidity between narcissism and borderline personality disorder. Can one person be 2 or multiple types of narcissist, each at different times or overlapping?
Thank you for bringing the Cheerful Narc up!!!! I am dealing with someone who NEVER gets ANGRY!!!!!!!!!! I cannot even explain what the 10 years relationship has done to me !!!!!!!! I think this is the most dangerous type. Never rage ,so u blame yourself for everything!!!!!!!!! You cant handle what is the reallity anymore. I ENDED UP WITH DEREALIZATION, there was a moment of my life I didnt know where am I or how old I am. I looked on my son and I didnt know if he is girl or boy. My mind didnt know what is true what is not and what is the reality. NIGHTMARE!!
Awe, The Conversational Narcissist, oh yes...had a friend who lived out of state, and thought it was my job to stay on the phone day and night. She never let me get a word in and she also texted day and night. I had never experienced such an individual, and before too long, I couldn't handle it anymore. I deleted her. Thanks for listening, God bless 🙌
The exhaustion they bring with taking up 99.9 percent of the conversation is outweighed by the relief of never again being held hostage by their bad phone behaviour.
Do you guys feel that narcissists (and other outwardly leaning manipulative types) have a special relationship with the phone? Since I stopped answering the phone all together (hyperacusis can make the background noise of a phone conversation feel like a stab in the ear), I noticed that some people were shocked, offended, and sometimes became hostile to me when I told them so. I've seen lots of people get hostile when they are told not to leave an audio message, as well. I don't know what it is, but very sociable people have an emotionally charged relationship with the phone.
6:20 I love this channel. I love your content. I have been married to a narcissist for 27 years. Your videos have been very grounding/validating for me when so many others dismiss me or gaslight me. Thank you for that. I want to bring something to your attention that you have mentioned on a few of your videos. In this one, you say "that's not how ADHD works." I have ADHD and I can tell you that although someone with ADHD often gets distracted when listening and when speaking, and will go off on tangents when speaking in a conversation or forget what they were saying, it is also possible for us to focus for 30 minutes when talking about something we are passionate about. That's the hyperfocus. You know that people in narcissistic relationships can wonder if they are the narcissist. Each time I watch a video where you say they claim to have adhd when they are distracted and "thats not ADHD," it sends me down that rabbit hole again, where I look for signs that I may be the narcissist. I can get myself back to the surface, but it's a terrible feeling. Perhaps, you can make a video that highlights what the differences are. Had you meant to say "no, it's not ADHD and they are making excuses," or are there differences in the way a narcissist gets distracted vs someone with ADHD? Thank you again for what you do!!!
Everything you said dr Ramani is true. I have experienced relationships with all of the kinds of the narcisists you have talked about and they behave exactly the same. Thank you.
You described my parent, in quotes. People just shut up around him. The other parent would scream. Its sad and weird cuz he is over 80 and the hypocrisy has always been staggering. The amount of head bobbing and "yeah..."s over a lifetime that I did... Thank you for getting it.
Great Video! Im currently struggling with a cerebral + self rightous friendship. Its not that I didnt see the signs, Id adjusted my expectations . Certain things in the long distant friendship I enjoy. However, a few months I can no longer deny the fact that Ive gone as far as I can in this relationship. Walking away seems the best option. As trying to share why it no longer works for me will be met with lack of understanding and retailiation. Far too late I saw how this person retailates to people she feels wronged her. I was stunned and stung by her behavior. Truth is, the minute I needed emotional support and voiced that she turned ugly. Demanding she does support me! Im heart broken and at same time have no desire to continue our friendship. Guess the lesson for me is, in spite of adjusting my expectations to minimal this friendship cannot grow beyond what works for her. Shes a brilliant doctor...I-yei- yei! Thank you for this video. It clarified exactly what Im facing. Look forward to comments, hoping Im not the only one facing this, as I feel very alone. Ty!
I hope you will do more videos on the “self righteous “ narcissist. Im wondering if it goes hand in hand with perfectionism which seems to be so common these days 🤔 Thank you kindly for all your work 🙏
Now that I am aware of narcissistic abuse, I hear subtle comments from people I am talking to, usually women, that tell me they are living in a narcissistic relationship. There are many people suffering without people's awareness.
Sometimes you have to play the role of a fool to fool the fool who thinks they're fooling you
Love this Lmfaoooo 😂
Sounds like a lot of games to play.
😂😂😂 Brilliant!
Great comment!
Lol me and the landlady
Any time I tried to express myself or my needs, I was told I was causing drama, or he would respond "ugh this again" or "this is boring". He had me questioning myself and my intentions over and over. It became clear that I could never say the right thing. He would then subject me to lengthy periods of silent treatment. It was beyond hurtful and humiliating.
I feel the same now in my relationship.
I think you changed my life when you said anger is an emotional state
My husband works with cancer and had the privilege of attending a yearly conference of the world's best/leading cancer professionals in Lyon, France. These are the scientists who determine treatments worldwide and publish in prime medical journals. My husband was astonished by how HUMBLE and pleasant these learned professionals were throughout the event. Truly gifted/intelligent people are not show-offs. They don't need to be.
I could see doctors being more psychopathic than narcissistic.
Psychopaths will be kind, humble, etc......for a price. 😈
Most of them probably do love their doctor jobs and don't mind helping people because they usually get a lot of money/prestige/power.
Narcissists are the type that are like "me, me, me", and "aren't I great?" and "I'm the best person ever!"
Narcissists are usually more nurses or care aids. (Note: there are empath nurses too, but I'm just saying it's a mixed pot usually)
And Narcissists don't make good doctors.
Psychopaths, meanwhile, can put their "ego" aside for the greater good, IF it benefits them, of course.
Which it does, because they get $$$$$$$ and power.
I'd imagine if there was a "the official CEO doctor of France" or "the best scientist doctor of Denmark" (sorry I'm bad with doctor terms)
then I'm pretty sure a psychopath would love to be known by that title in their country.
Yes...possible.
These people are true humanitarians, that's why. Thank you for this tidbit 😊
@@specialtwice4975 In my 60+ yrs of life, I've encountered both Narcissists and Empaths in those Fields.
I've had Narcissistic Doctors and A couple Empathic ones.
I've got a Very Empathic Nurse Daughter and a Very Narcissistic Nurse Sister In Law.
Every Profession has variety of Personality Types.
❤0
I have a neighbor who is a cheerful Narc. Only wants to talk about her concerns, gets bored or seems distracted when it's your concern, is fake while conversing with others, remembers or keeps score with who did what then wants to collect on it etc. Very deceptive where you wonder when the shit is gonna hit the fan! Always on edge with this person. Had to release the Narc!
When someone tosses word salad at you - they are doing so to make themselves look smart. A truly intelligent person scales their language and description to the audience, but if someone shows interest/knowledge they will up the level of discourse. Anyone who acts like they shouldn't have to explain themselves, or that something is correct because they said it - is NOT THAT SMART - they are insecure and are covering up their lack of knowledge with bluster. As some have said about education, "if you can't explain it, then you don't really know it."
One of my favorite quotes is "The fool is happy they know so much, while the wise person is sad they know so little" - if a theoretically smart person is proud of their knowledge - you might be dealing with a fool. A very smart and credentialed fool - but a fool none the less.
I would add “victim narcissist” to this list. They have a long list of how they’ve been hurt, attacked, abandoned, triggered. They project a feeble brave front in the face of all their tragedy but they never ever take even a slice of responsibility for any part in any of it. If you get involved with them you will eventually become one of their ‘abusers’. They are so proficient with their mask of sad victimhood that you feel like a terrible person for suspecting they might be manipulators.
I think Dr. Ramani refers to that as the “covert narcissist.” She describes it in detail in other videos. Basically, they feel entitled to special treatment, attention, opportunities, etc without investing time and effort to earn those things. They feel sullen and resentful and act like a victim when they don’t get the things they feel entitled to. They lack empathy toward the hard work that other people invest to earn the good stuff they have.
@@CD_RN_Independent_VoterJust remember all narcs are actually capable of exhibiting (both) overt & covert behaviors depending on the 🎯/situation/time/place.They may even heavily lean into 1 or the other but they can dip into the other type of behaviors too😬.
@@malwads1836 yup. I’ve experienced that unfortunately. I’m aware.
This is my ex.
This is my only sibling - a 'sister', with whom I have gone no contact. She's tried to hoover me three times to no effect. The last time, about two months ago, she was waiting for me outside of my chiropractor's office like a spider. I only felt revulsion. She asked how I was and I replied 'good'. I asked how she was. She stood up and said 'better than I was'. I replied 'good' and walked right past her, got in my car and drove away. No hoovering since then.😊
To all the NEURODIVERGENT folks reading:
We see you! Intention is felt! You aren't hateful for trying to relate! 😊❤ I can always FEEL the difference!
thanks for this comment, i came here to mention that autistic relatability is not what is being talked about in conversational narcissism
I also find it suspicious and troubling when people keep the focus on me without saying much about themselves. It feels more like an invasion of ones privacy, especially when they don't reciprocate by sharing much about themselves.
Too many busy-bodies out there, and usually out of jealousy they'll interrogate you, searching for something to bring you down, in their devious attempts to build themselves up. Wolves in sheep's clothing
I recently made friends with a woman who dominates conversations everytime we are together. Gradually she has become aggressive if you ask a question or contribute to the conversation. She'll say "I don't care its about me" or "I''m not interested"Recently she called when i was having lunch with my son. at a restaurant, She asked what I was doing. Shortly afterward she showed up uninvited. She tried to triangulate my son against me. Later she became verbally abusive when alone. I'm so done with her. I refuse to return her calls.
I knew someone who sounds similar. It was so surreal at times I was speechless. Glad you got out of that situation.
In the future I think you can put up a boundary sooner.
Can you block her from your socials, or do you believe she will escalate?
Run baby run
I had a lady tell me she “wasn’t all that impressed by the Louve.” I’d give a kidney to be able to see it!
Being socially anxious as a child I can remember when contributing to a conversation that I'd always make it about me and it would seem as if I was trying to 1 up people, when inside I was desperately trying to show that I could relate with a similar experience. Tough social lesson learned. 🙂 ❤
This is actually a very common way neurodivergent people communicate and connect. There is nothing wrong with that. Actually most people I regularly converse with this is more the norm rather than an exception
4 Subtypes of Narcissists
00:22 - Conversational Narcissists
11:53 - Cerebral Narcissists
26:26 - Cheerful Narcissists
36:26 - Self-Righteous Narcissists
Thanks for the time stamps! Super appreciate it
@@Munchkinlord27 🙏❤
Thank you❤️
Great work ✍ Thanks for the time stamps ⏲
Thank you!
I did grow up like this. I am 71 years old. Since my parents both have passed, I reflect on my whole life and still struggle with scars that are imbedded in my mind. My sister, who is the queen of Narcism has found it necessary to disown me after my parents passed. I have spent about 4 years of grieving the loss. Watching your podcast have been so helpful in healing from her abuse. Thank you!
Please know that your sister isn't worthy of your time, and she did YOU the favor. Having to appease someone all the time, and only receiving crumbs from them gets tiring. Live out your new life now, without her toxins. Stay busy with hobbies, and treat yourself like you would treat someone like you!
38:31 my dad
38:58 but he did cheat
48:51 dad
50:49 yes dad
My mom is a narcissist. I always knew something was off, but didn't have the language or knowledge to know what it was until I was 54. As a young person, I had a hard time emotionally regulating and needed to learn social skills. Being a good listener and not bringing the conversation back to myself was one of those skills that I had to learn, because it wasn't modeled to me. Thank you for all you do, Dr. Ramani.
Your response helped answer a question if mine. Thank You 🙏
You provide such amazing content. Thank you kindly for all you do!
I learned to be a really good listener because of my narc mother. I am just realizing and I am 64. I am just glad I am finally understanding. There has always been a fog of confusion about my mom for me. Thanks for your share. It helped.
Most people relate a topic to themselves when speaking. Basically relaying their personal experience with the topic. The difference is that some people refuse to listen to anyone else.
omg the fall asleep on the phone happened to me ,one hour later i picked up the phone and they were still talking ,It made me smile so wide that my presence wasnt even needed
When you wanna vent to a friend and they are grossed out beyond rational thinking and then they say exactly how they don't have that problem because.... blah blah.
They only can brag about their perfect children, perfect marriage that is long gone, their perfect teenage social life, etc etc etc
Several times told that 99% of people love them so anyone who doesn't is wrong. Contempt for anything they feel like, especially when driving... dumb drivers. And then repeating their issues ad nauseum... "Can you believe it?"... and off they go again.
The "I have to go somewhere" as an excuse to end a conversation is a classic narcissistic trick. My ex does this all the time: "I have to get to work" is typically his way of slithering out of a conversation that is not going his way.
Not just a narc move. It helps to see the toxic level is too much, so as a target, you can excuse yourself, too. "Ok, time to go." Is my escape words. Where am I going? I don't explain, just repeat or say, "See you " Sometimes, I just get the heck out of there without a word. The narc just sits there, mouth gaping, or maybe gaslighting, raging, or hoovering. I don't care, I'm out of there.
@@lrajic8281 my favourite out is needing to go to the bathroom.
THIS
@@lt827...& if all else fails there's always "I think I just 💩 myself so I need to go now"😂🤣👍🏻.
I've stayed somewhat isolated for the last few years, but in a healthy way, where I enjoy my hobbies and just being away from other's drama. When I do get out to meet with a small group for dinner, I feel excited to share in the conversations, but at the same time I'm cognizant about not over sharing or one-upping anyone.
YES, I do the same again, in a healthy way with my hobbies, Hubby, cat and certain people I meet up with, I'm SO much more at peace!!❤
My PhD supervisor at an Ivy legue university was a cerebral narcissist. I survived...barely. Spent 20 years working in that environment. In private practice now. Best transition I ever made. Never again.
Thank goodness you’re free. I can imagine your work environment is much happier now and better for overall wellbeing.
Hopefully, I will also find a way to break free of my narcissistic work environment, so I can feel happier and healthier. It’s not cerebral narcissism, but it’s antagonistic, self-serving, gaslighting, coercive, cold, and merciless.
Hallelujah! Same here. I had to get EMDR therapy to recover from the trauma of academia. Not pursuing work in that environment was a life affirming and joyful decision 🎉
I started to think I am a conversational narcissist but I listen when others speak
AND it's lovely when others join in with enthusiasim!
My mother was a severely depressed alcaholic , drug addict who was always self medicating with drugs and alcahol. When coming down off her high she would Rage at anybody snd everybody withIn her Reach, and , frequently, she would often Rage or Rant falsely accusing me of something I did Not Do and sometimes did Not even Know about, until Later, so her drug addicted rages often ended up. with " and it's All Your Fault !" So in general conversations, I found myself frequently Oversharing, Constantly feeling the need to Explain myself, or Over explain myself, always on edge, tiptoeing on eggshells, I was constantly apologizing until people started commenting on it. In my urgency to explain myself and be clear, I often Overshared, and interrupted a Lot . This is something I Still find myself doing and I Struggle with it, and it makes me Cringe to even think of it.
I cringe at the conversational thing because my ADHD makes me prone to saying 50 things about myself or my experience when I really should've said 1. It is honestly just verbally following my inner experience in realtime, which is rather like a golden retriever at a dog park 😅.
RE: conversational narcissists. My ex-FIL (very overt narcissist) once asked me if I liked horses. I recall thinking to myself -- "Wow, he's asking something about me, how cool and unusual!" So, I bit, and said, yes, I really did, thinking we were, for once, going to have an actual conversation. But he immediately followed up with "Well, we just met this woman who ownshorses, blah blah blah." I felt like Charlie Brown and Lucy with the football. WHY did I fall for it?? So relieved that when I divorced my husband I no longer had to deal with his very toxic family.
Eventually l got super annoyed and frustrated. The other person is just so damn obnoxious
One of the ways it seems one could discern the difference between a cerebral narcissist and a super smart nerd seems to be the joy that the nerd shares information. Even if it's over your head it still, they pique your interest and inspire curiosity and joy of learning.
One of my three Marine sons is such a humble individual, with his degree in aerospace engineering. His ability to captivate an audience, having them wanting more is such an experience to behold. Brains and Braun, and the most selfless individual.
You are right. I'm a professor. My best students, of whom I am immensely proud, were all extremely enthusiastic about their fields and topics, and they went on to become academic authorities in their fields. They did sound a bit arrogant at 20, but who doesn't? They were safe with me - unfortunately there are colleagues who feel threatened by this kind of kid. Because it's very different to see a smart, hard-working 20 year old boldly confronting "the adults" to argue passionately in favor of their hypothesis, and to see a 50 yr old full professor doing the same thing. One is a cool kid, the other is a narcissistic asshole.
Be careful, there are super smart narcissistic nerds as well 😕
Supplemental: ADHD is an *interest-based neurology.* That’s ok. The downside is if a person’s biggest interest is theirself - It’ll come across as narcissism. So I’d encourage anyone with ADHD to learn to care about others because your emotions are on your sleeve. 💙
If you primarily focus on others then find yourself zoning out, it may mean you need time for self care. There’s nothing wrong with you. You just need more self check-ins. Don’t fall over backwards for others either.
Well said. A friend who is diagnosed ADHD and on medication for it explained how it works in his head, how he feels in conversation, that he´s bursting to say something and finds it difficult to restrain from taking over the conversation, which then comes across as narcissistic.
Thank you for this
Thank you! I told my therapist I think I'm a narcissist because I love to share my personal stories in social settings and think I need/have to provide 'entertainment' to be accepted. I'm always working on ways to stfu and let others have equal time. It's damn hard!! 😅😢
My therapist laughed so hard coz I have extreme adhd. Nope, I'm not a narcissist. Just need to constantly rein it in.
@@shelleysmith6667 Me too! Lol, you sound like you "get it". Keep up the good work, as acknowledgement is major.
@angelasizemore6005 aw thanks! Ditto!!
Fascinating! I always try to control how much I talk about myself because it can be a real issue due to my isolated career. One of the ways I deal with this is to ask people questions about themselves
❤❤❤ ask 2 at the beginning every conversation and LISTEN
Great advice. I work alone too and get too excited when I have a good conversation.
My ex and I are both writers, scholars and academics, and what my ex would do is not so much bring the conversation back to his own experience, as bring it back to his own area of expertise, so that any conversation became a conversation about the thing that he had the most to say about, that he was the authority on-or that he liked to *pose* as the authority on. He was desperate to be seen as an authority.
While being a PhD student, I met a professor in a conference here in Canada. I was with a Bolivian colleague, and during a conversation, the narcissist professor mentioned that the Bolivian guy must be having a hard time in winter as he is used to the tropics. When I told the professor that La Paz is above 4,000 meters altitude and winters can be cold there, the narcissist became arrogant towards us due to his mistake.
I call conversational Narcissists, "one uppers". If you ran a race, they ran a longer one.
The self righteous narcissist definitely fits with what I experienced. It truly was miserable. I never knew when I would do something that wasn’t “the right way” and get criticized or corrected for it. There was always something new that I didn’t know. Thank you for this video!!
I have social anxiety very bad and iv noticed when extremely nervous I do accidentally interrupt sometimes cause I'm trying to be part of the conversation , and I know it comes across as narcissistic if people don't know me.
I'm not sure how anyone Accidentally blurts out subjects, maybe say what you'd like to say in your mind first. Then at a pause say what you think or ask a question ❤❤❤❤❤
Well, this advice is pointless. IT just proves that there Is not enough empathy and understanding from your side what social phobia is.
@annajezkova1517 I wasn't giving advice, I was simply pointing out what Dr. Romani stated was true, ppl with social anxiety can come across that way too.
@@KoolTNope… No one accidentally does… But people who are very busy talking about themselves and dominating the conversation rarely give pauses long enough for anyone to contribute and feel a part of the socializing… So it seems like blurting if you are trying to be involved and the rest of it is going so fast. I’ve watched situations like this go on and it usually also happens because the narcissist has expressed issues with the fact THAT THE OTHER PEOPLE are not involved in the conversation enough… Meanwhile they never take a breath and allow it. LMAO
This episode was eye opening
My dad was a genius scientist. I have never met a more humble person. I doubt I ever will! I never saw him talk down to anyone.
Wise as well as clever =)
I gain so much knowledge from the comment section as well…I value your data as well as your audiences data they share in the comments…it helps one realize how abundant the narcissistic personality type is in the world and that what I’ve lived through isn’t an isolated thing….there are people out there that do know what it’s like and know it’s not an exaggeration and that does help so much…so thank you and your audience for all your help…
There may also be social problems involved, but I think sometimes people are trying to empathize to the other person that they do understand by giving examples from their life.
I was introduced to an actor who dominated the conversation for the next half hour then said, "well enough about me, what do you think of me." I almost laughed because I thought he was kidding, but he wasn't.
Thank you for doing this video. You point out that people who talk about themselves, know a lot, are very cheerful or have a lot of rectitude can also be empathic, humble and caring. Looking at the overall personality and it's relationship and effect on others is key. This is very helpful to me.
Had similar encounters and conversations with music industry types... they sincerely want an answer about what we think about them😂
I did the wedding photography for a Self Righteous Communial Narc.... many years ago...
I didn't have the "words" to describe her personality....
She to this day, loves the stage, at Churches~~ loves the AWARD CEREMONY, where she is high and lifted up as Super Altruistic Woman!
Yet, she seems to often look down from her elevated stance and belittle the very people she claims to help and care about.
Her wedding was more of a SHOW than any I have ever worked..
😂😅
I keep her at arms length when our paths cross...
Even when she "leads Worship" (she truly has a great voice) all the 🎵 🎶 are about her.... not THE LORD
Absolutely .. my husband hated me because I am normal .. I am emotional and human and he is self-righteous .. you said it all Dr. Ramany .. i lived swimming in his judgement and rage .. once he told me that i ruined his life to the extent that he will kill himself if he had the chance to. Can you imagine how was my life full of fear and panic attacks.. I waited 29 years till I found your videos. I managed to leave and heal myself ..I am still following your healing program but I am doing great, I published my first book and writing the second so THANK YOU
My husband told me I prevented him from living his dream of being a rock star because I didn't keep the house quite clean enough. We had 4 or 5 kids at that point 🙄
He also blamed me for ruining his day off when I was bleeding out with a miscarriage, and then got pissy when I got all the attention from the church supporting me.
😱that is so horrible! For both of you! I’m very sad you had to endure those things from someone who was supposed to be your best friend 😭😫
This is awesome! Congratulations! And thank you for sharing this.
Dr Ramani did an explainer of the difference between Narcissism and Autism which is relevant; autistic people often give you an example from their own experience to show that they have an idea where you're coming from. To show empathy. The idea is that you can't know exactly what someone else is feeling so you show them the nearest you have, for comparison.
Ironically, in therapy to survive my narc mom, I was taught the value of “i statements” and over time, the general idea of how you can’t speak for others and must preface all things with “in my experience” or some-such because your own experience is all you have any authority on. (So eventually talking only about oneself or from their own perspective becomes the only acceptable way to communicate without “overstepping” or misrepresenting the truth” or “making up facts). Not to mention that it’s hard to show someone you sympathize without saying you know exactly how they feel = once again, sharing your own experience. And now I’m hyper-aware of how I shouldn’t talk about myself too much or ppl will perceive me as a narc. Or maybe I am. Help I think I’m going crazy.
Edit: social anxiety def played a role. I was rewarded socially for overcoming my awkwardness. It was a mask. I got more acceptance for putting forward a more conversational/intellectual narc-y persona and punished for being my weird neurodivergent self. I thought something was inherently wrong with me, but behold!!!! I can fake it like the best of them. So it became clear to me at a young age that high cerebral talk was going to keep me out of the hot seat. You’ve seen it before: “you’re so clever, I don’t understand why you struggle with school. You just need to apply yourself”) Adding to the convo is like jumping a hurdle, then you gotta sprint to the next one or you’ll fall. The spinning and burning in my mind and chest from the anxiety of being perceived by others can be hard to listen through. “If I’m not interesting/special/correct then I will be rejected because people will have zero need for me, in fact they’ll be repulsed by me”. I spent too much time with the mask on and now I can’t tell if it’s me or not.
Just the story of a girl whose own narc mom helped her to believe she had to earn the air she breathed, hide her authentic self, and mistrust anybody who liked her genuinely (while still being embarrassingly hungry for their praise). No joke, she told me outright that anybody who was a friend to me was a bad person cuz either 1) they were lying/faking liking me as a cruel joke, or 2) were not to be trusted because only bad people genuinely liked me.
I don't think you're narcissistic because you seem capable of self reflection.
My ex was definitely a self-righteous narcissist. I said in an earlier comment that my ex was all four of these subtypes mixed together. But now that I’ve heard the profile of the self-righteous narcissist, it sort of encompasses most of my ex’s narcissistic traits. This video is a wonderful gift to me from Dr. Ramani and from my higher power because we actually just finalized our divorce at 9:30 this morning.
I’m happy for your new freedom and your healing journey.
Congratulations. Wishing you the best in your healing. ♥
congratulations, freedom is scary but it's worth it in the long run!
Youngest sister, of five siblings, developed the self-righteous mindset, when our malignant narcissist mother made her the executor of her estate. We all suffered at the hands of this evil woman, but this particular sister received compensatory treatment/benefits, after I shamed our mother for her part in this sister's claims of molestation by our stepfather, and got her treatment to deal with the trauma.
Our mother clearly showed anger towards me, her lifelong scapegoat, and eventually turned this sister against me. My sister is super naive, and transformed into a wolf in sheep's clothing, claiming to be all-knowing (she's 9 years younger than I). She took up religion, which was never a part of our early lives, and acts as though the neglect and abuse that the rest of us endured was nothing, compared to what she experienced. She can't comprehend that what our mother subjected the rest of us to has any bearing on the choices that we make in our futures, and how the poor foundation that our mother laid for us is a problem.
I don't play victim, and never have, but instead I went on to thrive in life, with the hunger for knowledge. My talents and skills, from a very early age, were the envy of our mother. She never acknowledged my gifts, other than to downplay them, and any offerings of assistance from her were meant solely to retain control over me. Her inability to do so brought on so much hate for me, and as a young teen I showed so much independence, from saving money and working my ass off, in a desperate attempt to remove myself from her grasp. I was the one that the family knew would succeed, and I did, but the price I had to pay for going no-contact with my entire family outraged the lot of them, as I escaped their sick world.
@@SteeleMagnolia I relate so much to your experience. I have gone no contact with most of my family excluding my mother and some cousins. My parents emigrated when my older brother and sister were 13&14, leaving them with family, I was 7. We are now in our 40s. They have resented me since and my sister in particular is the instigator. My mother overlooked their mistreatment for years, I believe due to her guilt of abandoning them. Recently, she has acknowledged their behaviors and supports my decision to go no contact. I have poured myself into work and education because it is the only thing that gives me balance and structure. It's genuinely difficult being out here in this world without family to fall back on, but I have some good friends and self love. ❤
Thank you, Dr. Ramani! You have helped me so much to see things clearly❤😘💃🏼😊
Back in the day I would overshare - and I'm sure that some people thought I was being "conversationally narcissistic", though I doubt they would have used those words at that time. It took me a long, long time to learn how to stop myself. It was compulsive behaviour, and I didn't want to do it
Excellent point Dr. Ramani. I had to learn Active Listening Skills. I am far from being Narcissistic, but I would tend to get excited when around an interesting individual. I didn't mean to interrupt, ect. A good friend helped me with this and I will always be thankful to her. Great video!
Honestly, almost everything in this video is 100% aligned with the autistic experience, to the extent that any allistic individual who watches this video may walk away thinking autistic individuals they have encountered are narcissists.
This is the first time I think Dr. Ramani misses the mark on a nuanced wrap up (at least with info for folks who may not be curious to explore the differences between autism and narcissism on their own). Perhaps the biggest/most obvious difference is there’s no need for attention/feedback or “holding court” with these behaviors in autists.
Each section through an autistic lens could be renamed:
1) relating in conversation
2) info dumping
3) masking leading to dysregulation, shutdown, and inevitable burnout
4) empathic attunement, ethical behavior, and rigid thinking
The self righteous narcissist is my husband. I am so happy to hear you describe this so I know I'm not crazy. It almost lifts a wright off my chest. My poor kids were raised in this manner where I tried to stop it as much as I could. Thank you so much!!!
The narcs in my family are so volatile that if I had the ability to share the stories of their antics, they would make sure they shut me up….these people are so insecure that they take any knowledge of who they really are as a death threat and will reciprocate the threats they’re perceiving ….they’re dangerous just being loose in the world..,.and I know what my brother has been involved in and know he should be in prison for life for it all but the law values him because he snitches on people…the cops let him get away with murder….
My mom is a self righteous narcissist!!! Sheesh It took this video finding me today right when I needed it. It’s one thing to accept a person as they are, but when you can understand the person’s mental illness it easier to acknowledge that this person may or may not ever take accountability for their own shortcomings. I’ve worked in the mental health field for 15 years and I have dealt with all kinds of mental illness and I have become very knowledgeable of how to help these individuals cope, however when it’s your mom who has continuously discredited and disregarded your accomplishments it is hard to get her to understand she is the one who needs to seek therapy to understand why she is the way she is. Thank you 🙏🏾 so much Dr. Ramani for always coming through with clarification, personal relevancy as well as your professional opinion and expertise!
For too many years I allowed my narcissistic mother to define who I was. After discovering what narcissism was, years ago, I took back myself, and went no-contact with the evil woman that brought me into this world.
I can see how this concept of conversational narcissists would reveal your situation. It’s probably much more likely your mother was just a narcissist. I intuitively knew my mother was not right as a child. So I did my best to not let her define me. This was to my benefit and detriment. But I got married young and although that was also her doing and I divorced him and eventually escaped both of them. I’m 63 and have always felt I wasn’t doing enough or enough. But I now see I’m doing enough and I have actually accomplished enough. This is a lifelong struggle to free your soul.
@@brigitte9999 you are absolutely right my mother is a narcissist by all definitions and I’ve know something was not right with my mom since a child and unfortunately was lead to believe that I was the problem. Especially the way she would down play me to other family members as if I was the one with the issue, needless to say I know now at 35 this relationship with her has been long overdue for an official end! She has held me back and minimized me for long enough and I’m saying ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! Thank you to everyone that has replied under my comment with your own personal touch it truly warms me to know I’m not alone in how I feel although it’s hard to recognize, when you know better you internally and externally do better.
I've been around a lot of mentally ill loved ones before they were treated with conditions ranging from Schizophrenia to Depression...I truly feel so bad for them when they were ill & struggling before treatment because they were really suffering and don't feel good about when they behaved badly toward others😞.With narcs on the other ✋🏻 I have no pity for them, they're ruthless abusers that have 0 empathy for the people they exploit...I only pity the innocent little kids they once were BEFORE they turned into ☠️ emotional zombies that happily feast on the living.
I find myself being guilty of conversational narcissism quite often. I used to feel like I did it to connect to people and show that I was listening. But over the last few years I've caught myself doing it and I think... they didn't ask you for that info. I thought maybe my understanding of social cues was not what it should be, so I'm going to go get that tested.
@@SeiichirouUta It's usually something like, "Oh I know that show, I watched it last year what did you think of this character or the plot?"
or also;
"I know how you feel, when X happened to me I remember feeling exactly like that. How are you doing now?"
Loving your videos, they are so therapeutic and eye opening. One thing I can take away is that narcissist are people who use whatever power they have to dominate or oppress others instead of being emphatic and considerate of others. Great lesson teacher
Exactly. The most brilliant people -artists as well as intellectuals- are the most humble , down to earth people. It’s mind boggling- in a good way. My late father was brilliant , but so incredibly humble - he turned down a professorship opportunity at Yale because he couldn’t stand the back stabbing , jockeying for power he witnessed at events.
My sister is a cheerful narcissist. But she has to be always right, laughs at others, is actually a mean girl. Left me & my daughter totally alone after my divorce when I needed her the most. After hoping & being dissapointed again & again, I've stepped back & don't see her anymore.
Hi,
I've been watching your videos for almost a year now, in many ways they have saved my life. I didn't make it that far into this one, this stuff is honestly really hard for me to digest mentally. I believe that I have been abused repeatedly by narcissistic people, but I can't stop thinking about how much of it is on me. I suppose I fall under that category of isolated and socially anxious people who talk about themselves because I literally don't know what else to talk about. At first I always think it's a good way of empathizing, only to catch myself and feel ashamed and hate myself for it. It doesn't help I guess that I grew up with a sociopathic narcissist as the only figure I had to look up to. Nothing romantic; Simply I was 15 and ran away from home, he was older, wiser, grandiose and I admired his intelligence and charisma. I wanted to be like that, instead of the weak little loser I felt like I was. At 16, I ended up working full time and supporting this person, (several years older than me), only to be shit on and yelled at and insulted every day, every night, while this person sat at home doing nothing all the time. I ran away from that situation, only to return to the EXACT SAME SITUATION almost 10 years later, with the same person. They did literally all the things I've seen you talk about on this channel; Try to convince me I'm insane, say things happened that didn't, deny that things happened that DID, make shit up all the time, tell everyone else I know embarassing shit about me just to maintain a position of power... Not to mention, I've seen your stuff on narcissists and money, and well, as the person supporting a narcissist while they had no job, let's just say I've seen some incredible mental acrobatics. Literally saw the guy grab a girl by the throat and throw her around, so I took her to safety and he accused me of doing some awful thing to him by stealing this girl away from him. "The worst thing anyone's ever done to me", according to him. And the crazy thing? I believed 90% of it the whole time. I mean the guy picked up a cat and threw it on the floor and yelled at me for running to see if it was ok. How dare I! AND I ACTUALLY FELT BAD FOR HIM!
It's strange that this video came up on my feed, it's something I've been thinking about an awful lot lately. Being that, I feel like I am the 'conversational narcissist'. I don't really know most of the time what to say to someone other than to relate a personal story or something, my intention is that the person won't feel alone, like you know? To say hey, I've been there too, but a lot of the time it just ends up as me turning the conversation completely into whatever I want to talk about... I'm trying really hard to learn how to listen and respond properly when people talk about their personal issues. Honestly, inside I feel like smashing my face repeatedly off whatever is closest because I feel helpless and I feel for people... Obviously that's not helpful... But I don't know what else to do. I spent most of my life looking up to and learning from a literal sociopathic narcissist, who managed to turn every conversation into something about himself and make everyone feel good about it... Quite vomit inducing when you think about it. But l have never learned how to make another person feel like they were being heard or understood. Just how to make people feel like they're part of something that doesn't really exist. If that makes sense.
Anyway Dr Ramani, thank you for your videos, I always leave a like, subscribed a long time ago. Sorry my comment may not be 100% pertinent to the video. Haven't really talked about this stuff with anyone before. Well I'm sure no one will ever read this anyway lol. 💗
Oh boy. Conversational hijacking (as I always think of it) is my dad's MO. I don't converse with him anymore because the discussion always ends up on some random tangent that has nothing to do with the original topic. When he doesn't get his way in the conversation, he up and walks away. I refuse his phone calls now because they end up an hour or two of being held hostage without getting a word in.
My last boss did this too. He would fly into a room like a hurricane and try to interrupt any conversation to interject himself.
Another point regarding people who are not narcissists but who interrupt conversations all the time: they mistake showing empathy with their
need to explain that they, too, have had your experience. They can't simply listen and nod, they are compelled to tell their similar story. it's highly frustrating for the person who's trying to communicate their experience and can't even get past ,"Last night when I was putting my toddler to bed, he would not stop crying--"
Omg Yes!!!😂 I can’t stand when my narcissistic mom would turn the conversation on herself when I was trying to confide in her about something I was worried about. She was so clueless and lacking self-awareness EVERY time she did that.
Every day of my life!
You’re right, just totally lacking self-awareness. Sorry you had to deal with that from someone who is supposed to be there for you. My dad does that literally every single conversation so I just had to go gray rock and keep everything surface level.
I totally feel you there. Just recently I was laid off, she used this to freak out about her job life for a few weeks. She starts applying for jobs, I have to help her with her resume and practicing interview questions.
Meanwhile, I’m doing this stuff for myself without any of her support.
😂😂 at 43 years old this is just so annoying now.
@@Shenanigans_Afoot 🤣😂how funny when people lack self-awareness like that… smh… You sound so kindhearted and patient to help her while you’re also helping yourself.
@@lionelgrisbane-ud87 You’re so wise and composed to maintain a relationship with your dad & keep things pleasantly surface level. I tried doing that with my mom, but things that she did and said made it hard for me to feel good about myself. It was best for me to be estranged from her and my extended family who enable her narcissistic abuse.
I grew up with a dad and stepdad like this. My dad still after 38 years is telling me the same lies, he made up and slandered my mom with when I was a baby. He whole heartedly believes them too! I've dated a few guys like this, and I just got free last year from a friendship like the bubbly one. She always prided herself on her "Bubbly" personality and everyone better LOVE IT and think she has a heart of gold! Healing is not easy, i'll tell you that.
I know a cheerful person who I suspect is narcissistic, She seems to be so warm and caring, still when you get to know her a bit, she's contemptious and arrogant, looks down on you. She won't listen to your problems with an abusive husband, she expresses that you're stupid for staying with him. When I told her that my husband told me I was old and ugly, she said"but you have such smooth skin over here", touching her cheeks. (That was the only wrinkle-free zone on my face.) I'm in my sixties. I'm not a young beauty queen, but have received many compliments from others, so it's not that bad. My husband was jealous. She knows everything best, no matter what the subject.She's always giving advice to others. She likes to point out things you've told her in private, embarrassing things like dandruff and hairloss, to other people, asking how you're doing with the problems, in front of others. She commented cheerfully how my lipstick had blead out into my wrinkles, also in front of another person. (She is a few years older than I, and has very wrinkly skin herself.) When I arrive at the occasion, she stares at my upper lip. I just laughed it off, when she made the comment. She is usually perceived as a warm an cheerful person. She also promised to help me with something practical, in front of another person, but she never came around to doing that. It was excuse after excuse. Future faking? She talks badly of others, often disguised as concern for the person she's criticizing. It is easier to recognize a narcissistic person if he/she is sour or rigid, not warm and cheerful. No-one would believe me....I've realized some time ago that I can't be authentic with her and tell her about my problems and such.
Wow. This is the first time hearing about an awkward- anxious conversationalist which was me growing up. My Mom was a conversationalist narcissist: as a child I thought she could carry such a long conversation and I felt why can’t I find things to talk about like she does so smoothly. Now, as an adult I realize her hijacking conversation was always about herself. I learned as a teen by reading books about engaging in conversations that if I clearly not a smooth talker, I would be a smooth listener and ask questions to the person I met. By listening instead of talking I grew a genuine interest in learning about people and I was less anxious.
It was my Mom’s negative voice in my head about my supposed inadequacy
that made me want to improve my conversational skills. Education is power because I realized my mom was the issue, not my conversational skills, but boy did she make me anxious believing that something was wrong with me. By the way, I was the scapegoat.
Dont go too deep with them. Be surface level, like just discuss the weather.
i am increasingly grateful for my ability to talk about the weather.
@48:25 I meet many self-righteous people in the gym. They love to "share" about how hard-working, regimented, and strong-willed they are. Sometimes they don't have to announce it. It shows in how they demean other people. Side note: The "f* your feelings" t-shirt is a walking red flag.
Cheerful Narcissist, very helpful. Never heard this before but it explains a person I had to walk away from. Funny, entertaining, no depth, no interest in hearing anything of a serious nature. Their response: ,"Just let it go." When confronted, the Cheerful Narcissist will ghost you until they are ready to re-enter your life. No thanks.
Listen to them, ask questions to understand them, don't interrupt them/change the subject...I used to do this for many acquaintances and friends. But after years, I found many of these "friends" only wanted to talk about themselves. When I had needs to share, they hung up the phone, changed topics, or dismissed my thoughts and feelings. I had to distance them. It's become one-sided. Now I value my time, energy, and empathy. And I am very, very choosy about friends. I actually feel less lonely.
One of my experiences with a conversational narcissist: Once I went out with a bunch of work friends. One of them invited a friend who brought a couple of her friends along. One of these people "Sarah" totally monopolized the conversation but none of us cared because she was hilarious. However, when her friends looked at each other with bored annoyance, like 'here we go again' I did wonder why. As the night went on Sarah's jokes and anecdotes started to repeat and others tried to steer the conversation away from her increasingly redundant stories. When this happened she became more aggressive, yelling the same stories that we heard moments ago over other people who were trying to talk. It eventually escalated to the point that she actually stood up on the table yelling, 'Let's set this shit on fire!' She was asked to leave by the bar's staff and as her friends (who didn't say a word all night) stood up to follow Sarah out I could see on their faces that they were not surprised by the outcome of the evening.
Her 'friends' sound like hostages!
Why do they choose to be hstgs? Maybe they are enablers -- why? What is their "tie" to the otherwise insufferable person? Compassion, long history of friendship, genuine wanting to include her for her, but she does not reciprocate...they need to have an intervention with her as the most compassionate, responsible, and effective way to support her growth. Up to her how she takes it.
Guilty of social anxiety and isolation. I tend to share way too often.
Please be kind to yourself =)
Try listening to Dr Rick Hanson and his son, Forest Hanson - Lovely podcasts, talks on youtube, very calming and I've learned loads!
After living through several dysfunctional family connections and failed relationships, I began to hear your talks. I wanted to know if I was narcissistic. Turns out I am not! And that I had just taken on the 'shadows' of the people around me. Each of the types and subtypes rings several bells. At 72 I feel as if I'm free... of all the 'shadows' that had been bestowed on me. God bless you for your clarity and compassionate talks.
So many narcissists are doctors and nurses and psychiatric doctors and for sure police and basically everyone that has a little more "power" than you. Its sickening how I have been treated. 🙄
I call these people “ one uppers”! They always, always have done it and done it bigger and better!! UGH! I also feel these people are extremely insecure
My late Aunt Betty was an established physicist. She bragged about my mother's role as a mother to her friends and colleagues. Delightful..a brilliant mind humbled .
The duck with the cheerful hat, Lol. Thank you.
I've been watching these videos for months now and hours upon hours of them. I'm beginning to see how much of these subtypes and characteristics of narcissism could be misused to describe people with strong and appropriately placed agency. AKA, a narcissist calling someone who isn't a narcissist, a narcissist. I find that to be quite fitting in this social media and digital age. It's a nurturing environment for the communal and self-righteous narcissist. Perfect breeding grounds that add to the already covert victimhood mentality. Narcissism, although obviously more complex than this, could be chalked up to the inability to relieve oneself of their ego and position it appropriately. There is a time and place to relieve oneself of their ego. However, there is also a time and place where your ego should be stronger than everybody else around you. Ego is part of your sense of agency. Without ego, there isn't agency. The agency to do good in the world. The agency to make the right decisions and to be honest and compassionate. The agency to defend another man or woman's honor against the egotistical attacks of a narcissist. The agency to fight, dismiss, and shut down true narcissists. I find that unless you gray rock a narcissist, or go no-contact with them, or dismiss them entirely so that they do not become your enemy, you WILL be forced into the mud with them. When you find yourself there, you best be equipped with a strong ego and sense of agency. Ego can and will be misplaced. It is precisely why we are all subject to being narcissistic from time to time. What makes a true narcissist is that they are subject to this throughout their whole life, and every facet of it, and damn near all the time. I showed this video to a friend of mine and he began to wonder whether or not he would be characterized as a self-righteous narcissist. I told him no, that is not the case. It just so happens to be that in order to fight monsters, one must become somewhat monstrous themselves. Or, truthful; powerfully truthful. And as we all know, speaking truth to power is one of the many banes of a narcissist's existence. After all, what would be most scary and monstrous to a narcissist? I would say, ultimately, that it is truth. And as we all know, they just can't face it.
Thoughts?
❤ red lines are solid.
@@triple999fruitful what do you mean?
@@ZaidIsm007 sorry for the confusion. What I mean is while I learn a lot from these videos, I also learn about my limitations. My limitations may also be by my greatest strengths. So while there's a lot of advice about not engaging in the mud with a pig because witnesses cannot tell what is going on, I may not necessarily care about public opinion and will state a hard and immovable boundary that I will fight for by not joining herd nor individuals coercions.
People pleasing is a cancer.
I agree 100%
That’s how you can tell: when you speak truth to them, not flinging it in the mud, but calmly and without chaos - they CANNOT stand it.
Dr Ramani. You have no idea how much you have saved my sanity! Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. ❤
The conversational narc, omg 😣 and those people who in groups, all become narcissists 😬
Sometimes it’s a lovely thing to share similar experiences. In a healthy conversation it’s good to be open about yourself!
Wow! There is even a name for such behaviors that suck your energy! Thank you from the bottom of my heart for all the information vital to our mental health
*omgosh yes* the best way to share new information with others is to pretend they’re children. not talking down, just simplifying and being gentle and answering questions. when someone is confused about what I say I pretend they’re a kid and everything ends up wholesome. not all adults know things. maybe we should all be kinder.
I will offer up my experience with a thing when it comes up in a conversation in an attempt to connect with the person talking. Like the example you said…if the speaker tells about a trip to a city…if I’ve been there, I’ll say I went too at whichever time/year. But I don’t do that to take over or hijack a convo. Most people feel a connection with others who share experiences in common.
Wow, the description of the self righteous category matches my father so well, although he was no health freak, drinking and smoking heavily as he did, but aside from that , spot on! He did get violent and raging on occasion and was terrifying. There was always this feeling of menace at home, just as you described Dr Ramani, he would utterly humiliate me for any transgression and it was like growing up in some sort of military schhool. I've had severe Complex trauma for most of my life, constantly beating myself up😥 I can't express the devastating effect it has on those growing up with the self righteous narcissist, suicidal ideation has been the biggest problem for me, just the constant feeling of unworthyness and of being a perennial failure still haunt me to this day and I'm 57 now. I was continually criticised and chastised if I ever expressed exuberance as kids do. My father was simply terrifying, it really is such a toxic environment to grow up in.
My mother was raised by a first generation immigrant from Lebanon to the U.S. The self righteous narcissism described mirrors the cultural expectations of children as well as rigid gender roles my grandmother imposed. The abuse lives on in my 80 year old mother today. She only feels loved and 'good enough' with my dad's American born extended family.
Very interesting topic. Hadn't thought of it.....How do you know if they aren't just sharing? I laughed when you said grab some popcorn and listen to them yammer on. Been there done that.
Im definitely the more socially isolated person who gets a little too excited for outside conversation 😂but I try hard to make sure I'm not dominating.
My stbx would dominate conversations, but if i started talking about my day, suddenly he has no time. Ive been talking for half an hour and he's too busy (after he talked to me for 2 hours), etc. It was so frustrating.
I'm fairly certain my father was a cerebral narcissist. It's a family thing. But the expectations he had, in hindsight, were beyond unreasonable. I won't go into details because he passed away in 2020. It's not just to avoid speaking ill of the dead, but because I think he came to regret his behaviour in the weeks leading to his death.
But I will say, while I grasped the importance of learning for its own sake very early, it created challenges, too.
Just because a child has the vocabulary of an adult doesn't mean they are one. Many people don't look deeper. And some presume you're some sort of condescending tool.
It was very isolating.
My narcissist ex-friend once changed the topic with no comment as usual even when I said I'd had a return of suicidal ideation. When I called her on it, she laughed and said "Of course I don't want you to die! Who would be [my audience]?" Then she changed the subject AGAIN! < : - o She also bragged about her IQ then lied to revise it upwards after learning a friend's was higher. Life is so much better without her!
Yikes. I'm so glad you were able to see her for what she is and remove her from your life!
@@idontknowyouthatsmypurse Thank you. : - ) ❤Grateful for lessons learned!
Entitlement & arrogance
I’d like to add, it is very common for people with hearing loss to take over/dominate the conversation as a way of keeping in control when they are missing what others are saying.
I have learned my attempts to connect to others in conversation by mentioning my similarities and then bouncing back to the other person to finish is not a good thing through videos. I always connected it to empathy. As I typed this, you addressed it.
YASSSS! I recently learned this too!! I learned the behavior from my narcissist mother. I have been working on altering my behavior!
I learned from this video that my ex-friend is a cheerful narcissist. He looks nice and charming and everyone likes him. But he divorced twice and his first spouse ran away from home 🏃♀💨💨🏡
The self-righteous narcissistic definition rang some major bells in my ears. Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge and your minutes! 🫶
It got so bad that he didn’t even connect what I said to his new conversation. He would completely ignore whatever I said and start talking about whatever he wanted without ever acknowledging I had spoken.
In contrast,I have a friend who used to do this but once we talked about it and some healthier communication tactics and we worked together each of us working on our part of the conversation. Now we are much closer, our friendship has improved and our closeness too.
“Word salad rant “ perfect description
The more I watch the more I learn! As a very generous listener raised not being heard, listened to, or minimized, there have been plenty of experiences of various narcissistic types being attracted to me for sometime, because they're receiving undivided attention with genuine questions and follow up interest, until.... 😅
There's always a caveat or segue to loosing their interest for someone freshly engaged and hasn't heard their top 10 stories or "life lessons" or narrow scope of subjects of interest to them, on repeat.
The one common thread is it is always about them, even in showing generosity, or positivity, its about their emotional and mental and physical needs and wants at exclusion to all others, unless it temporarily serves their needs for admiration, positive validation, and acknowledgement.
I am curious about personality disorder comorbidity between narcissism and borderline personality disorder.
Can one person be 2 or multiple types of narcissist, each at different times or overlapping?
Thank you for bringing the Cheerful Narc up!!!! I am dealing with someone who NEVER gets ANGRY!!!!!!!!!! I cannot even explain what the 10 years relationship has done to me !!!!!!!! I think this is the most dangerous type. Never rage ,so u blame yourself for everything!!!!!!!!! You cant handle what is the reallity anymore. I ENDED UP WITH DEREALIZATION, there was a moment of my life I didnt know where am I or how old I am. I looked on my son and I didnt know if he is girl or boy. My mind didnt know what is true what is not and what is the reality. NIGHTMARE!!
Awe, The Conversational Narcissist, oh yes...had a friend who lived out of state, and thought it was my job to stay on the phone day and night. She never let me get a word in and she also texted day and night. I had never experienced such an individual, and before too long, I couldn't handle it anymore. I deleted her. Thanks for listening, God bless 🙌
The exhaustion they bring with taking up 99.9 percent of the conversation is outweighed by the relief of never again being held hostage by their bad phone behaviour.
Do you guys feel that narcissists (and other outwardly leaning manipulative types) have a special relationship with the phone? Since I stopped answering the phone all together (hyperacusis can make the background noise of a phone conversation feel like a stab in the ear), I noticed that some people were shocked, offended, and sometimes became hostile to me when I told them so. I've seen lots of people get hostile when they are told not to leave an audio message, as well. I don't know what it is, but very sociable people have an emotionally charged relationship with the phone.
6:20 I love this channel. I love your content. I have been married to a narcissist for 27 years. Your videos have been very grounding/validating for me when so many others dismiss me or gaslight me. Thank you for that. I want to bring something to your attention that you have mentioned on a few of your videos. In this one, you say "that's not how ADHD works." I have ADHD and I can tell you that although someone with ADHD often gets distracted when listening and when speaking, and will go off on tangents when speaking in a conversation or forget what they were saying, it is also possible for us to focus for 30 minutes when talking about something we are passionate about. That's the hyperfocus. You know that people in narcissistic relationships can wonder if they are the narcissist. Each time I watch a video where you say they claim to have adhd when they are distracted and "thats not ADHD," it sends me down that rabbit hole again, where I look for signs that I may be the narcissist. I can get myself back to the surface, but it's a terrible feeling. Perhaps, you can make a video that highlights what the differences are. Had you meant to say "no, it's not ADHD and they are making excuses," or are there differences in the way a narcissist gets distracted vs someone with ADHD? Thank you again for what you do!!!
Everything you said dr Ramani is true. I have experienced relationships with all of the kinds of the narcisists you have talked about and they behave exactly the same. Thank you.
You described my parent, in quotes. People just shut up around him. The other parent would scream. Its sad and weird cuz he is over 80 and the hypocrisy has always been staggering. The amount of head bobbing and "yeah..."s over a lifetime that I did...
Thank you for getting it.
Great Video!
Im currently struggling with a cerebral + self rightous friendship. Its not that I didnt see the signs, Id adjusted my expectations . Certain things in the long distant friendship I enjoy. However, a few months I can no longer deny the fact that Ive gone as far as I can in this relationship. Walking away seems the best option. As trying to share why it no longer works for me will be met with lack of understanding and retailiation. Far too late I saw how this person retailates to people she feels wronged her. I was stunned and stung by her behavior. Truth is, the minute I needed emotional support and voiced that she turned ugly. Demanding she does support me! Im heart broken and at same time have no desire to continue our friendship. Guess the lesson for me is, in spite of adjusting my expectations to minimal this friendship cannot grow beyond what works for her. Shes a brilliant doctor...I-yei- yei! Thank you for this video. It clarified exactly what Im facing. Look forward to comments, hoping Im not the only one facing this, as I feel very alone. Ty!
Yes, I don’t consider myself a narcissist, just socially odd. I don’t know how to relate to people. Plus pick the wrong people.
I imagine you’re probably not a narcissist from the way you worded that.
This is me……I have social anxiety and have never felt like I had any value, so I share with others like this. 😔
I hope you will do more videos on the “self righteous “ narcissist.
Im wondering if it goes hand in hand with perfectionism which seems to be so common these days 🤔
Thank you kindly for all your work 🙏
Now that I am aware of narcissistic abuse, I hear subtle comments from people I am talking to, usually women, that tell me they are living in a narcissistic relationship. There are many people suffering without people's awareness.