That's actually such a good title, it's almost worth writing a book just to use it. I think it would need to be gentle with the incels tho - I mean they're as creepy as hell, but I'm not sure that people laughing at other people even worse off than they are necessarily makes the world a better place, and I can't help but feel that a lot of these guys are genuine psychiatric basket-cases... and unlike JP, I don't think that any blanket diagnosis and prescription is a good idea. Could be funny tho.
@@snaek2594 Because Jordon Peterson wrote it - and his thing is to deliver pithy "self help" advice that has had paternalistic, hierarchical, conservative poison drip-fed into it. Incels think that their inability to get on with women is the fault of women, and the progress of civil-rights, and they (as white males) deserve better. JP confirms this.
@@nicktaylor5264 No. I've read the book. The book as a whole is really not "pithy" (which is a compliment, by the way). The rules themselves are, but the entire chapters written about them go very much in-depth and are pretty dense actually. I'm going to have to reread it to get as much as I can out of it. The book is "conservative" only that it doesn't completely reject religion as a source of knowledge. The way JP goes about religion is very much skeptical. I could describe it better but it would be too long for a reasonable comment (though I can explain myself if you want). It's really not as abhorrent as you think. The material is actually quite harmless and just good self help. (You can skip rule 1 if you have a serious allergy to hierarchies not being described as wholly socially constructed). Also rule 8 is skeptical of communism so that might displease you as well, but really it's just generally good advice. The way you talk about it gives me the impression you've never even given it a cursory look.
if they are given a spotlight by wingnut-welfare/rightwing media machine, and big Koch funding then sure. The big appeal of jbp is a professor and has a phd, which to them gives his crazy statements an air of legitimacy.
@@danalexander2149 And jordan peterson contributes illogical misrepresentations about bill c-16 masked as intellectualism. It's not an ad hominem if it's an accurate accounting.
@@suzbone That's funny considering a damn Dominos is right next to me through the window, eh b'y, guess that's something to do with leaving in Canada, though ask Zach to change it to Pizza Pizza or some Canadian branded pizza delivery service.
@@bunwithgun1587 instead of taking her father to a hospital to treat his medical addiction, she sent him to some weird facility in Russia. From what I hear, the treatment was not good
@@danalexander2149 because not bullying is DEFINITELY "coddling" . Refraining from abuse of power over arbitrary characteristics is DEFINITELY going to hurt everyone.
12 rules by Jordan Peterson 1. Be born white 2. Be born within the safety of a reasonably well-to-do family 3. Be born into a country with as little internal strife as possible 4. Be born a man (no take-backs or later dysphoria allowed) 5. Do good in school 6. Work on developing a personality that oscillates between reserved solemnity and snide narcissism 7. Drink Coca-cola zero 8. Get as stable a job as possible like a teacher or professor, something with a built-in socialist mechanism like a union or tenure to insulate you from any real financial gamble while lambasting others for not having a pioneering, entrepreneurial spirit 9. Stop drinking coke zero, start taking Klonopin 10. String together a loose framework of cultural conservatism, self-help mumbo jumbo, and cursory examples of legitimate psychotherapy to bolster your credentials as a mainstream intellectual before pulling a bate-and-switch as a turn-of-the-century Yukon-style, canvas-tent-revival huckster. 11. FInd a group to scapegoat (maybe not a racial or ethnic group. You know, a group of people to throw under the bus to use an example of what happens if people don't follow your vague, pedantic cultural thesis or whatever) 12. Have a bunch of scary masks in your weirdly modernist house to try on while a camera crew gets more and more uncomfortable with your general vibe.
Turns out he'd go to Russia to stop cold-turkey in a coma and get permanent brain damage despite having a PhD in psychology that should tell him that's a stupid idea
It’s irrelevant, because you’re not understanding the neuroscience involved with bringing up serotonin levels and behavior and seeing the connection between species. Wow I need to go back to school, UA-cam isn’t school, it’s really proving to be a place stupid people go to feel smart.
I never got the whole "makeup in the workplace is to make you look sexually available" thing; I've always assumed that the goal of most makeup was more about making yourself not look like a pale shambling corpse with dark-rimmed eyes because you're expected to look bright and chipper after 4 hours of sleep, and not look like you're about to cease existing any second at the hand of a migraine that permeates every waking second of your life. Combine that with a social pressure from birth to suffer a great anxiety because of your appearance on any given day and bam, you've got an industry, no?
I read "The Beauty Myth" by Naomi Wolf a century ago, sort of, and cried a little bit, feeling sorry for ALL women (because after age 35 or so, all heck breaks loose!). But the thing is, though, women are human BEINGS, men are human DOINGS. Eighty plus percent of women can and do use either 1) their natural beauty or 2) their nat beaut plus makeup to get things, to get favors from those who are DOINGS. Eighty plus percent of men are screwed in our system, losing out to those born into money or with the Brad Pitt looks. Beautiful women largely don't realize their privilege, don't acknowledge that it's just about a free pass that opens up so many luxurious doors.
Speaking from my experiences, makeup is often about hiding imperfections and avoiding ridicule, which can raise confidence. It isn't simply about gaining things from men, but rather avoiding cruel and harsh judgement. If you're an ugly or fat woman, you can see from "cringe compilations" that people will relish in your suffering and your demands to be treated in a way that allows them to accept themselves.
Listen, I know you're mad because I questioned your entire existence and legitimacy as a person to protect my fragile idea of white masculinity, but have you considered the lobster?
@Koko B. Kakow thank you, I've been trying to tell people for years and years that bonobo societies are the superior societies, but they just tell me leave the Macdonalds drive thru lane
RighteousViking Lets not forget that, should said conservative snowflake be corrected or taken to task about his bigotry, he then whines about how his opinions are being oppressed just because society doesn’t tolerate his hate speech 😢
@Xela Flow cool your jets there. *Envy*: "a feeling of discontented or resentful longing aroused by someone else's possessions, qualities, or luck." Just because you insult someone on the internet doesn't mean you're not wrong.
Going to rehab means you have "lived" apparently. Riiight. Jordan aka super serious and depressed/angry all of the time and can't get along with the ladies Peterson is "living" it up hahahahahahaha.
Changed your mind.....let me help. J GALT "Sure there is. Jordan Peterson and Ayn Rand argued philosophical reasons to take extremist right wing positions and devalue liberal positions. They both spoke of leftist positions as disguising a drive to power. Rand's strawman was Ellsworth Toohey, Howard Roark's antagonist in the Fountainhead, where the union organizing populist wound up having dictator sympathies. Peterson's boogeyman are all Postmodern NeoMarxists. There are differences. Rand was all about the money, Peterson about the personal. Rand was atheist, Peterson demands belief in God. The audiences they call, and the philosophy they espouse ultimately calls the same people, the same people who flock to Ben Shapiro and Dave Rubin for additional rhetoric to hate on progressive values." So, you got hooked on "fiction"......whose main point, which she stayed true to....the right to intellectual property.....you completely missed. ( and which was written in the early fifties. ) To even begin to understand her and attempt a valid criticism would require actually reading her philosophy....where she describes capitalism as the Unknown Ideal, cites central banks and bankers as a central problem.....despised libertarians and most of the people that claim to be inspired by her, and titled her philosophy Objectivism....which would seem to make any actual criticism rather easy, since pointing out "subjective" assertions which would be self contradiction, shouldn't be that difficult. Peterson is a subjective mess......who can't even define things properly, and can't produce an argument unless he can distort the subject to his own construction.....and his "help" requires discarding reality, in order to function. ( so if hooked for life is the goal....then Peterson is your guy....but there is no similarity to Rand.....anymore than a "Cult of Individuals" is a "cult". )
@@jgalt308 I remember being on that train with you, the Taggart Express Comet rocketing toward enlightenment and self realization. I have given many of the same defenses, understood the world as you understand it now. However, I discovered that my actions are not made in a vacuum, and the pain that comes with actions taken with no account. People are heroes so long as they take action for themselves but the moment they stretch a hand, it's a moral sin. You aren't interested in any of that. You just want to divorce Rand from Peterson. You haven't given any points to defend your stance, just to read more to understand. Rand loved her Aristotle, and absolutely abhorred Marx, not even deigning to name him in the chapter of Atlas Shrugged that she strawmanned the argument of "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need." She loved Victor Hugo as an author, and found her stance on Nietzsche changing as time went on, as she wound up saying she didn't agree with him despite the similarities in their master/slave mentality issue, as well as the overall ubermensch overtones that make up Rand's perception of the better parts of humanity. I have read each of her works. In the end, they are lacking. Rand believed each person was a means to themselves. But we are not islands. We are together, sharing a brief existence together before we die. It's sad to see the world as a set of lessers and superiors. Even Rand waxed philosophical about this, that men of action, creators, prime movers, businessmen, only received a payment for the good or service, while all the people below just had to pay and got both the product and the sum of all the men's brains, making it a bargain. Jeez, by that mentality, I should kneel before Elon Musk and hope he graces me with a passing glance. By her view, I am beneath his notice or care, and whatever his sins, whatever his negligence, I can't complain, I can't protest, only meekly smile as Eddie Willers did, that feudal serf who would die in service. Also to your last point: she did disown libertarians despite the fact that libertarians were a lot more in line with her line of thinking, of man's personal life and business life not being policed by the goverment, than Republicans which she was attached to at the hip with, which valued conservative family values and a strong military. She actually was pretty supportive of the military, going so far as to give a commencement speech at a military academy, going on and on about a story about a man on the rocket ship crash landing and the values that would help him stay alive, and mentioning Hand "Reardon", a weird misspelling of the name that seems to attach itself to her memory of the character movingforward. Rand was very much a product of her time. Misogynistic, enamored with the glitz of glamour of Hollywood even as she herself denounced people that were into... "unAmerican activities." No dude. My mind is made up, and need no help with the clarity I have discovered. Your creepy demand that I do so on command is suspect: why do you need me to change my mind, and how is your paltry evidence supposed to help?
@@linkkenni You were never on the train with me and you aren't on it now....but you did get one thing right, my comment was directed at your Peterson comparison....and since you failed to address it, I guess you don't have anything, so we can deal with your "mind reading" abilities and your "argument" with Rand. Are you claiming that being "objective" is inferior to the subjective in determining where you are, what you are doing, what is moral and what isn't? Since there is no agreed upon "objective morality" or actual understanding upon the foundation upon which it rests ( and is actually rather simple to derive ) all you are raising is "subjective moral arguments" which "fail" immediately upon contact with "objective reality" and those things that intrude from outside sources and may not agree with your cosy self contained system. At what point to others have a valid claim on your thoughts or energy? If people were generally predisposed to altruism and co-operation, other than when it is a necessary rational choice of immediate or short range goals....then you would not be facing the present reality, and the environment which encouraged that altruism and co-operation, disappeared the moment fixed agriculture gave rise. to civilization....and that history is replete with evidence repeated again and again, that people do not operate in that manner, and regardless of how that reality makes you "feel".....your fantasy is doomed to fail, an no economic-ism will prevent that, since none of them are "objective" to begin with....as well as being ignorant and detached from science, regarding the physicals systems on which life depends....and the understanding of those things that actually compel human behavior, consciously or not. This is not a defense of Rand, for none is needed....this is where "objectivism" leads, and you are more than welcome to attempt an argument.....and need not consider Rand at all, to make one.
@@jgalt308 My comment was originally about Rand and Peterson drawing the same audiences and reaching the same conclusions when it came to being hostile to leftist thinking, leftist philosophy, and leftist politics. It's funny. Despite your attempts to decouple Rand from Peterson, you speak as he does, talking about the fantasy of making changes to systems that are hard coded. You are like a breath away from telling me to consider the hierarchy of the lobster. So I will answer the central question, which is literally the question that made me about-face on defending Objectivism. "What do we owe each other?" An Objectivist owes nothing. I owed nothing. I owed nothing to the lady dying of cancer. She should have been better prepared. Should have studied. Should have gotten that good job. Should have eaten better. However, the supposed systems of economics that made it so the woman could not afford her cancer treatment aren't hard sciences, sir. The problem with economics and politics is that the systems are man made. They are arbitrary, and are only given value because we say they are legitimate institutions. They can be, and have been, changed. This is not fantasy. This is reality. If the concept of the dollar, that Frisco D'Anconia so emphatically defended not as the source of evil, but the source of virtue, is so prone to being manipulated, transformed, and coveted, at what point is its virtue corrupted? The issue is that money is money. It's not corrupt or virtuous. It is people that are. And the second blow to Ayn Rand's Objectivism is that no one person is capable of perfect rationality. Every person suffers bias of some kind. No one is immune to propaganda. And people do not have an implicit inherent ability to perceive objective things from altered perspectives. Honestly, this is the largest lie Rand told her audience, that a man can inherently know right from wrong and proceed without accountability. That what James Taggart did to his competitor was wrong, but what Franciso D'Anconia did in creating a cardboard city with only a standing church was right. This double standard is rendered more absurd by suggesting that for the genius and ethic of a relatively few men, the world would come crashing down. It hasn't. It won't. The issue with the world's richest men is that their industries are not successful because of them, they succeed in spite of them. Squeezing every person for every cent has the effect of over inflating the value and worth of businessmen. They can be replaced, as anyone. So what do we owe each other? My own personal answer to this is dignity. You see, it is my belief, based on the fact that before I am human, I am a collection of chemicals, born of stardust, the rarest state of matter of the universe. The state of life. Assuming you're not a bot, and even if you are, you are also born of stardust. Our entire planet is. 7 billion plus souls trapped together in a single blue planet hurdling across the universe, the only ones of our kind we have ever seen. We are alone in that regard, and the vast distance of the universe is so great that looking up literally unnerves me. What I owe my fellow man is the basic dignity of understanding that our consciousness is a miracle, that it is brief, fragile, and fleeting. Understanding that every one is precious. That everyone has a story. That everyone hurts and everyone can laugh. That overly cliche simplistic answer is my answer to what I owe the stranger down the road. The answer is that I owe them the benefit of existing in the same space as me. That we are together in this. That they aren't a statistic, even if the whole of humanity is this in the end because I simply don't have the processing power to understand otherwise. Through others, I understand myself. Since I value myself highly, I must afford that same value onto others. Everyone deserves the dignity of being human, and with that, certain unalienable rights and privileges. Of course with that comes responsibilities, but I already meandered several thoughts to someone who wholeheartedly is not in the same place and wholeheartedly only wants to criticize my thoughts and my original observations about Rand's audience and Peterson's audience being roughly the same, rather than have a conversation about them. In any case, that's my answer. People owe each other dignity, and the responsibility that comes with that. This ultimately puts me at odds with Rand, who immediately discounts anyone who is a drain on resources as a second hander, and Peterson, who pretty much tells his audience to put up or shut up, and tries, quite vainly, to tell people how to measure up while killing their empathy. The word humane, whose root word is synonymous with being human, is empathy, is compassion, is the things Rand would turn at disgust at, Peterson castigate as being lacking in experience in the "real world," and both deign a perversion in pursuit of power. Also, I gave a pretty damning response as to how Peterson and Rand's work have a large overlap, and I don't foresee you saying anything other than "I didn't make an argument." The argument is all the text you didn't copy and paste in your reply.
@Ty Thomas Boxing Training we sure need self-help advice but we don't look for it from right wing reactionaries? If you need recommendations fam, I've got a few, i'd be happy to help out
Lol, un uh, you are. That is indeed what a reactionary is. It's a not word like femur, for instance, which only has one definition. What he described truly is a reactionary. Jp is fits the bill to a tee. I can't think of a more apt example of a reactionary, actually, at the moment. Who would you say is a reactionary? Bernie Sanders lol? Not in a million years. Go read a book...a decent one. Self help is a scam for suckers who arent quite gullible enough for religion.
“Bart the General” clearly glorified the coming together of all the school’s kids to take down their oppressor (Nelson). Peterson clearly needs more Simpsons screen time.
@@tomwaitsmencse The good doctor should have been more sympathetic to the struggles of trans kids and people with depression if he wanted anyone except his fanbase of sycophant reactionary dipshits to feel bad for him. He made a name for himself peddling pseudoscience and belittling vulnerable people, he can go rot for all I care.
Peterson’s schtick about natural male dominance in animal hierarchies conveniently ignores the many cases of female-dominated animal hierarchies. You’ve got ants and bees (both being socially advanced creatures) revolving around their queen. You’ve got female spiders that eat the male after mating. You’ve got the octopus - an amazingly intelligent and feeling animal - where the male just dies after he blows his load. The list goes on. Pretty flimsy argument by JP.
Very interesting comment! Except because peterson never said that human societies are naturally or actually male dominated, nor that there is any prevalescens of male societies in other species.
"Every time your critical of anything he says his fans are like 'well, you gotta watch 10,000 hours of his videos before you can legitimately criticize him'". This is what I hear from someone I used to be friends with who was a big fan of his, and defended him even when I brought up that he's retweeted content from a blatantly neo nazi Twitter account. Twice. It's hard to impossible to reach his fans.
The best part about jordan peterson is how far outside of his lane he steps, and all these people who try to call everything a fallacy dont realize that THAT in and of itself is a fallacy. His complete misunderstanding of lobster behavior is hilarious too. Serotonin causes extreme aggression in things like crustaceans and arthropods. It's completely different than the effect on humans. His entire theory of psychology is based on a lobster in raging psychosis.
The straighten your back thing isn't even particularly good advice. You slouch because your muscles are underdeveloped and your body naturally takes on a posture that is less taxing. Forcing yourself to straighten up isn't fixing your problem; it's more like covering it up. You may invariably develop back problems because your back isn't stable enough to maintain the position. The only way to improve your posture is build muscles in your neck, shoulders and back through regular physical exercise. Good posture means that your body is strong enough so it doesn't takes conscious effort.
Peterson shouldn't be seen as a healthcare advisor. Neither should this. There is a very valuable, scientific field of sports and rehabilitation medicine that can actually help you understand your skeletal muscular system, how it is most functional, how to avoid things that create chronic stress and weakness that makes injuries more likely or even inevitable. Slouching is incredibly bad for you, and you should absolutely not do it. Having poor core musculature posture, resting position and strength are very very bad for you. Just "straitening up your back," as straight as you can would be very bad too. I have no idea how familiar Peterson is with the actual science... and I'm not really interested in trying to find out what he means, but if he was saying "learn to have a healthy, functional, and confident appearing posture is a good choice," he would be on to something. If he means a military style straight posture, he'd not be onto something. Regardless, slouching on purpose is a very fucking bad suggestion, and instead of taking advice from someone who has no idea what they are talking about, I would encourage anyone to find a reputable sports medicine practice and invest in their health. Yoga can be a pretty good alternative, but it might require a good teacher, and I have no idea how an amateur goes about finding a great teacher, and I am not qualified to help there either. Don't slouch people. It slowly cripples you. Peterson has nothing to do with your biology and the importance of respecting your spine so that you are happy to have it be an important part of your body for the entirety of your life. Don't listen to him, listen to medical professionals, or maybe Yogis.
Can confirm, was told to stand straight and shoulders held back as a teenager. Now my upper spine is flat and doesnt have the normal curve that it's supposed to have, not really a massive problem but all of my muscle issues in the shoulders or upper back stem from that. Yoga helps a bunch though.
@@ilianamarisolromero7816 I see you’re lucky enough to not have met any of these folks, in person. Most of those dudes look up to Jordie because they had parents that shoulda never had kids - and those parents parented in the lowest effort way possible. They see a father figure in Doc Clean-Your-Room, sad to say. Its pretty sad.
Here's why peterson is obsessed with feminine dragon of chaos and the king of order. He's literally selling ancient messopotamian mythology. The dragon of chaos is Tiamat, the goddess of the primordial sea and creator of life, the king of order is her son who killed her and built a kingdom on her corpse, the continent.
All dragons in western and Middle Eastern myth represent both chaos and control over chaos because of how dangerous snakes were to our ancestors. Eastern dragons less so because they’re mostly based on fish. This is what people don’t seem to get with Peterson, he’s explaining that all of these myths are a way that our ancestors used to illustrate our psychology and how it interfaces with reality.
@@SeppukuAddict Psychology? That tale was the messopotamian equivalent of the "mandate of heaven", it's not some profound and long lost knowledge or wisdom, it's ad-hoc justification of an arbitrary hierarchy, specifically made to justify why those in the bottom should be kept there. There's no wisdom to gleam from peterson's ravings as the most fitting interpretation is that he either advocates for a monarchic theocracy or a society that retains the values of that primitive system. (Something that becomes increasingly evident as you realize that his entire public saga of advocacy is him having a tantrum that society has begun moving past the primitive values he grew up with and he's been doing everything in his power to revert that, regardless of the consequences) In addition to that, your understanding of mythology is beyond lacking. The symbolism of dragons is extremely varied with examples like Longs and Quetzalcoatl that have the absolute reverse interpretation.
@@fl00fydragon Hilariously ironic that you guys complain about Peterson’s word salads and manage to keep a straight face 😂 I’ve not seen him advocate for anything beyond taking responsibility for your actions before pontificating about how the world should be governed, but of course socialists with no lived experience would have a problem with that. My understanding of mythology is quite sound, hence why I said eastern dragons tend to be different, the artistic expression is much more aquatic and comes with different meanings. Quetzalcoatl has many different spheres, the most prominent of which is mankind itself, and is associated with medicine and wisdom, but also with treacherous storms. This is what I was talking about, he is a dualistic expression of mankind being able to pare order from chaos and use either as is needed. It’s the same as the Middle Eastern wise man milking the venom from the serpent, he transforms the root of their suffering into something to understand and use to reduce chaos. The serpent IS the dragon. Peterson has never advocated for hegemony and you know it, he has repeatedly said that order at the expense of all else is tyranny, and that to live one’s life in the most responsible way you must have a foot either side of the line. Not wanting a revolution =/= monarchism.
@@mausklick1635 They were both prescribed these drugs you sadistic morons. His daughter had hip and knee replacements and surgeries because she had rheumatoid arthritis. Peterson's wife had cancer and immediately after that a terminal condition they didn't think she would survive. He was prescribed medication as he is prone to depression and anxiety. What the flying fuck is wrong with you people?
The comments on his videos have a very repetitive tone of “reverence” as mentioned here. The focus is on him personally, less so his ideas. I find it creepy.
Every "badboy philosopher-intellectual" needs a cult of personality, because their goal is to sell products and profit. Intellectual merit doesn't matter when your goal is making money off of people who would rather be told they're correct on everything than actually think critically for once.
People bashing a 60 yr old prof that wrote a book: -He CLEARLY is sexually attracted to fish.... People who just don't care and have bills n shit: -Right on, I'm hungry
Jordan Peterson takes the ideas of Jung that are actually nuanced and complex and twists them to fit his concept of a hierarchy that is inherent in human nature. Jung's goal was to help humans truly understand themselves and their unconscious. Comprehending it is how we become complete. Everyone should read Jung in my opinion, and JPs ridiculous caricatures of Jung's concepts should not be viewed as an accurate representation of his ideas.
His take on the 2 year old bullying him and his daughter is wild. He doesn't even consider the correct course of action, which is to tell the child his action was naughty and to identify the parent, so discipline can be administered. He's such a little coward his only two considered options are to A) attack the child or B) slink away in defeat and remember it for the rest of his life. He gets owned by a toddler and defends his manhood by saying "it's society's problem that I am not allowed to attack children" "This toddler may have just dommed me by accurately assessing me as so afraid of confrontation that I will allow my daughter to be his victim with 0 consequence, but my bedroom is tidier than his." No wonder his daughter ended up dating Andrew Tate.
I think Jordan Peterson means for us to "fight the chaos" in women by making them orderly - in other words, easily accessible, within reach, and orderly. Enforced monogamy.
@@weatheranddarkness Dumbfuck zionist op-ed writer. If you're watch chapo on youtube look up their takedown of a really trash article she wrote about Australia.
Check out her new interview with Jake Tapper where they discuss how everything is anti-semitism always because some jewish kids tried to use an ancient technique to re-attach their foreskin so they wouldn't be made fun of in the basketball locker room one time. I'm not lying.
Peterson talked about marxist infiltration the same way the nazi had painted marxist as the enemy, the crytpo-nazis probably read that or saw that and cordinated something probably to make him popular.
I roll my eyes so hard at "Marxist infiltration". Anyone that has read the history of Marxist movements knows that Marxists were rarely ever quiet about Marxism. In addition, Marxism had nothing to do with gender politics or race politics or any of the other major talking points of the Left. Marxism saw history as a single fundamental conflict between those who worked the means of production and those who owned the means of production. Sexism, imperialism, racism were all just different manifestations and tools of bourgeois oppression of the working classes. The entire notion of the worker is fundamental to Marxist ideology. It's like trying to have Nazism without the anti-Semitism.
Yet labour issues are only marginally discussed in modern left wing political discourse. It's an element of the discourse, but hardly one that dominates that discourse.
8:20 This is a really good point - a message that's mediated seems more valid because someone deemed it worthy of being mediated. People really will stand in front of a large printed hi-def framed photo of your foot and critique it. Even if you only took the photo because your hand slipped. Even after finding out the image was shot by mistake, they can still theorize that. Some people see that as Post-Modernism disappearing up its own ass, others see it as liberation from ancient oppressive forms of derived meaning. Greil Marcus wrote about a documentary that showed a bunch of suburban teens dealing with the tragic death of one of their own. They mill around aimlessly until a radio plays a song one of them called in and requested, the favorite of the deceased. They freeze and pay attention, then one of them lets out this long yell. The point is that consumer modernity might have freed us from the old cultural ways of doing things, leaving us in free-fall, but there's still that primal social-animal need to have an event framed and re-presented by a shaman, a priest, a DJ or a movie star to give that event a sensible place in social life. So i just wrote a UA-cam comment about a book mentioning a documentary in which a song was broadcast on radio. Smartasses used to sit around and sneer cleverly at both sides of this, having THAT mediated to the world is a new and shiny thing.
Lol this was easily the most thought provoking comment I read in here and everyone just whistled and walked right by it in order to go to the part where we defend and/or ridicule an internet celebrity. Its actually ironic on the order of laughable, because it exactly proves what both you and I took from the moment at 8:20 Yes, this person is a quack, and his subjective Jungian psychobabble is almost comically bad. His ideology and establishment of what he refers to as the "left", neo marxists, pimping this woefully oversimplified version and compelling us to fear the other. Also that endless prattling about ancient stories and conceptualization of meaning and truth, only to at last circle back and tell us we need to care because morals are good and God gave them to us etc etc. I could go on but why bother, most of it is truly absurd and I believe designed to make people feel he is an intellect by way of over complication before goes for the jugular. However, this other message he is delivering is the real sleight of hand and where all the power and resonance with his audience truly exists. This simple refrain of self determination really IS working a spell on people in two subsets. The kids who like it are sure that this is a good, passionate elder who has shown them the way. It IS good if it helps them get their life together and I mean that; but on the other hand, what does it say about the state of camaraderie and isolation if he is the person who has to do this for us? Especially when some of the jingoistic boys clean their room so well they buy a .223 to put in it and then one Friday night take it out to a Wal-Mart to try on some brown people they don't like? Now he's really got our balls in the vice though. the absolute vitriol that I'm reading for the last two hours in this comment section is really going to make this fire burn bright. The sheer animus he brings out in us accelerates his fame more than the fanboys ever could, and its his proof of concept. No different than Trump, or even those Logan Paul kids, they are creatures of a new age that we aren't equipped to deal with. They are symptoms of the post-modern, and they already know something we don't. The type of response we give to them in opposition is their single greatest asset to increase their influence and voice. You beat them by tolerance, with polite but direct dismissal of their bullshit and focus on the argument. Unfortunately, what I am seeing thru this lens is that most of us are nice, smart people but it's simply too tempting to get in the mud and play. We can't resist calling a spade; and fuck does it feel good to call him a nazi junkie who talks out of his asshole. Why do you think he makes these lipstick distinctions? You can make the same point and connections in way more polite language, but you need to be playing his kind of chess to realize he wants you to think of him as a mysogonist fuck and go put it all over every video he's in. He doesn't reject the post modern, he's fucking embracing it. This concept more than anything else should help out him as a complete charlatan. So I was trying to think, why does he make people so much more pissed than others? My estimation is that his whole persona and subject matter is evoking a higher level anger. He's the father figure, opining about days of yore and trying to prove it to you. He keeps saying that word "radical" like pinko is going to be the next one. Then he tells you some hard lessons and to clean your room, because he loves you and wants the best. He is trolling in a way that isn't apparent. His whole style makes him familiar to us whether you like him or not. What scares me really is that someone like this might be earnest or they might be completely bereft of empathy and it's very hard to know.. people are split in a similar fashion on the president, and I have suspected that had Peterson not gone off the rails with his drug issues that he would be jockeying soon for some kind of political office. Do you want to chance it? I'll get to the end of this, sorry. The worst of what is going on right now, is embodied by the polarizing elements like JP. My feeling at present is that we have become more self-reflexive than ever before. As you so excellently put it we're in danger of disappearing up our own ass. We are woefully devoid of traditional touchstones that help us feel belonging and sharing and doing replacement therapy with accidental foot pictures and videos of people we can laugh at. Modernity has replaced your dad with JP and in all of our newfound self awareness and expression we can't figure out that saying the dirtiest word you know about him is helping make his case. This is why the cancel culture is happening, we feel so impotent that we forgot you don't beat bad speech with silence and hate with more hate. No one read the post I'm replying to and no one is going to read this one because its too long without a bigpayoff and requires introspection. We'd rather find the funny part or where the guy says the daughter is a dick sucking crack ho. We want to listen to the same songs we like over not new ones. You won't discover anything new if you're looking always for proof that you're right about everything. We have the tools to discover and challenge right in front of us, but more than ever we just want someone to say we're right and its okay.
Peterson never talks about how family heirarchy was basically a structure of RESOURCE GATHERING that become archaic because of technology and individualism.
Good point but is it really fair to castigate the methods of "resource gathering" because it has led to the success of western societies? In this crazy, post labor, postmodern & post interdependent society we're living in, should we not move forward with a modicum of reverence for the past?
Cause for all the verbose complaints and criticism he was very much benefiting from his status as a tenured professor (ie: a member of the post-modern intellectual elite)… he’d have nowhere near the exposure to sell his own brand of bullshit on the marketplace of ideas without the Marxist education he received in the socialist dystopia that is Canada. The sheer rank hypocrisy in any number of areas would be hilarious if it wasn’t so terrifying. His books are snake-oil made from dead trees… Professor Jordan’s essential advice for Incels... It was likely as natural a progression for him as it was for the idiots with no other smarter or more powerful people to latch onto finding him in the first place… or to put it another way, “if you’re a big fan of The Secret, but it didn’t have enough social Darwinism for you…”
@@Rossoneri2 Do you have any inspirations or people you look up to? I don’t want to get too deep here but not everyone had a father figure or a role model in their life. Not saying he’s exactly that but sometimes it’s nice to have someone to tell you you can be better.
Peterson is like a politician but because hes not in office he never actually gets held to account. He speaks so vaguely that its hard to disagree with him and incredibly easy to fit him into whatever beliefs you have already. His only concrete beliefs are that freedom of speech is important, order is important and that you should be a good person. He also does his flirtations with christianity, so christians think hes a Christian and atheists think hes just interested in it. Genius in a way.
Studies of the participants of the 1/6 insurrection showed that their major motivation was fear of demographic replacement, which I thought was obvious, as I frequently heard them talk about taking “their” country back. Peterson is their spiritual leader.
I've never once heard Jordan Peterson utter a single thing worth repeating. Not once. In fact, I've never heard him quote anyone else and found it worth repeating.
The Peterson phenomenon will never cease to mystify me. The cool-headed, well-rounded, intelectual aesthetic notwithstanding, there's really nothing there. The depths of his insights are a joke even when he's right and his polemics betray a lack of understanding or dialogue with the ideas he targets. This in and of itself isn't rare, there are academic niches for this brand of sunday school intellectual that are very insular and cut off from the broader schollarly conversation, but the fact that he enjoys mainstream popularity and the priviledge to run his mouth beyond what he's suited to with complete impunity just leaves me in total shock.
white male alienation from society, combined with the destruction of revolutionary organizations culminating with the fall of the soviet union basically the biggest sign that a better egalitarian world isn't possible means that those people r more guided to reactionary tendencies than revolutionary tendencies.
It is a generation of children who grew up with emotionally neglectful mothers and absent father figures. Working lik e a dog for 50 hours a week leaves very little energy for you to be there in the way a child may neeed. It ususally isn't even purposeful neglect. My Mom was emotionally neglectful because my dad just went to prison and she had to work to support us. I understand why Peterson canbe appealing,, however I was lucky enough to grow up right before instagram/dating apps so I actually had women friends and got laid in highshool. I think its as simple as the opposite genders don't know how to talk to eachother due to the prevalence of social media. You used to have to get to know people. Now you just look at a profile. . Oh and definately partially Buzzfeed's fault. Buzzfeed owes feminism reparations.
@@slowloris2894 I think you make a lot of good points. It seems Peterson appeals to young men with a specific set of problems like alienation, isolation, and he is a kind of role-model or father figure for them. I really wish I could know more about Peterson's own life because I can't help but think his views indicate some kind of past trauma. He seems to have such a skewed understanding of the world. You appear to be insightful about the issues in your life. Unlike Peterson, it seems you don't look for a scapegoat.
I want to just heartily thank you guys for doing this podcast, in general. My friend sent me the Exit Through the Gas Chamber. It’s been hard to find something that had the right balance of black comedy and informed insight and now I’m hooked. Keep up the great work. I’ve been a bit intellectually starved lately and this show has been a remedy for the atrophy!
The reference to "Confederacy of Dunces" is a chef's kiss. That is such a great book! (20:56) Yes, Peterson is Ignatius J. Reilly, what a great comparison!
I have been thinking about this episode a lot lately, and especially the part at the end where they say “He just wrote a bad book.” It goes without saying that this ep is out-of-date seeing the horrific path JBP has travelled down, all I can think is that had he just been the self-important professor who penned a self help book and then dissolved into irrelevancy he would be so **so** much happier. He could have just collected royalties from his book, been a millionaire and lived an exceptionally comfortable lifestyle. Of course though he couldn’t do that, his own ego and the way he perceives himself has dragged him into the fucking reactionary swamp.
I love how Peterson just asserts that chaos is symbolically associated with the feminine... How? It seems like he could have said anything and his fans would just run with it.
'Consider the Lobster' is a great set of essays from David Foster Wallace. I like that you use the tag, and the topic to label congruence is great, but still kind of bothered that there is any association of any kind with Nazism-funneling 'philosopher' Jordan Peterson.
Re; women and makeup implying "arousal..." I always figured the rosy makeup was meant to imply physical *health*, in contrast to a pasty, sunken, wan complexion. Ever see a cancer patient? They're not exactly flush, most days.
Honestly if people haven't read Women Who Run with the Wolves, let me tell you Jordan Peterson's work is like borderline plagiarism of it. It's this bizarre 90's second wave feminist book talking about female archetypes in myths in EXACTLY the same voice JP uses to argue that Elsa from Frozen is a chaos dragon.
I love Felix's bit about Jorp not going away because I'm sure none of them thought it'd be something as dumb as "destroyed his brain with benzos and then got taken to a shady Russian hospital by his psychopath daughter to fix it" that would finally get him to fuck off.
Honestly, I know this comment's half a year old but yeah, that was a twist that I feel we should have seen coming, the guy who gets so angry about someone smoking weed that he writes about throwing them out of the house and talks about how you have to have your life in order before you can ever try to improve the world would have to be an absolute trainwreck on more than just a mental and emotional level projecting, since all these dorks on the right are constantly projecting any time they open their mouth, but honestly it still just caught everyone off guard, and it's funny seeing his dumbshit followers just carrying on like this didn't happen or like he's not a benzo addled grifter, like they would if anyone on the left who ends up in a similar situation in a heartbeat and start mocking without a moment's hesitation
If only we were so lucky that JP would finally fuck off 🙄 The lobster is back and apparently speaking authoritatively about what it means to be a black American with all that life experience he has as an underrepresented racial minority…
Peterson is the archetypal example of the laughably transparent pseudo-intellectual. Dude begins with a conclusion and then finds evidence to support it, rather than the other way around, then tries to explain how his method is somehow based on "science" and "reason" while in reality it is utterly opposed.
50:16 "rule number 11, do not bother kids while they are skateboarding, because they can be really mean and hateful, and I HATE THEM I HATE THOSE LITTLE BRATS, I HAVEN'T HAD A WEDGIE SINCE MIDDLE SCHOOL, *crying sounds*" - Jordan Peterson.
One thing I never understand about religious fundamentalist naturalists; if everything that’s happening is sourced from the beginning of time, arent the people ‘interceding’ supposed to be doing that?? 😅
@@NathansHVAC we all know what a woman is. It's the right that doesn't understand the difference between sex and gender. It's explained to then over and over, but they are so mentally broken they can't understand.
I'm happy I know I'm dumb. Capitalist greed whores think they are smart. Sub prime was intelligent. Corporate greed is smart. I am not your friend. I trust and believe I'm dumb. I like Jordans class lectures. Because I'm dumb. I'm excited about being dumb. I didn't invent any bombs or wars or viruses or new loans to fuck poor people. I bask in my stupidity. It's my blanket. Keeping me from thinking I'm a hero to the unwashed masses. Just remember, your leaders everywhere, they think that they, are correct, in their actions. Always
It just occurred to me that at 49:00 they start talking about the bully thing and Jordan Peterson unironically thinks that the Sam Hyde bit about bullying early and often is a model for schools. It's a good thing to let bullies do their thing.
"Whos who in the chicken world has important implications to each birds survival, particularly in times of scarcity" Well in human society what that looks like is in times of scarcity the ones on the top created the scarcity, then take more and more for themselves and fuck you.
Not to mention his comment sections are flooded with people praising him personally instead of expounding of The ideas he's presenting and how to implement them in your personal life. People are either unable to understand his abstraction and call it all bs, or just foam at the mouth and worship everything he says while doing nothing for themselves
It's a sad state of affairs when this screwball's opinions are actually adopted by the lost youth, a result of boomer parenting. I know people who listen to this dribble. Thank you for all you do, Chapo.
thank goodness i think JP's 15 mins of fame are up. honestly outside of people who just watch youtube all day, nobody else i knew actually knew who jordan peterson was. that being said, his terrible benzo health and deteriorating mental state seemed to have did him in. Good fucking riddance
Jordan's inability to succinctly express their philosophy, and their constant reference to other philosophical schools (i.e. Daoism) makes referencing said schools a potential landmine for any person attempting to seriously communicate their own philosophy. Jordan is correct in communicating that in Daoism (a dualistic or dimorphist philosophy in which all concepts contain an essence of "yin" or "yang") both the concept of feminine and of chaos are in the category of "yin". But at no point does Jordan ever explain this. He just strings words together in a very prosed manner to where the meaning is left wide open to interpretation, successfully saying nothing at all.
And gave him covid, apparently. Petty though it may be I take great delight in the fact that his downfall came from his idiot, grifting daughter. If he had just stuck to psychology, he could have retired semi-respected as an academic that was known for occasionally being a dickhead to trans kids.
Peterson stumbled upon a gap in the market. He links taking personal responsibility to increasing the meaning in one's life and talks about how to build yourself up into a better human being. This is appealing to young men, largely because it's not a message being sold to us from the left. Zizek came out and said that there was nothing wrong with that message, and asked why can't the left wrest ownership of this away from the right. I think Zizek has a point.
I agree with you but I don't know how "the left" collectively solves that problem. Peterson is a guru figure. Self improvement is not really a feature of the right in general. Nobody's listening to Steven Crowder for tips on how to be a better man. There already was a left wing version of Peterson, the Men's Movement of the early 90s. maybe some guru could bring it back. but left wing gurus are usually bad, IMO
Shoutout to Mr. Peterson for having the courage to retweet milking porn on main, I think all of us should aspire to have that clarity of intent
I’M EDGING DAD!
I clicked back on this video just to hear that again.
That was absolutely hilarious
Starts at about 19:25
I like how the Peterson voice goes back and forth between Yoda and Kermit like a pendulum.
HAHAHA
🤣😂
Frank oz
@@GrahamBean Now that you mention it, I've never seen Jordan Peterson and Frank Oz in the same room.
Suspicious...
Frank oz uses a pen to hold up jakes used condom at the start of the blues brothers.
i like how petersonshitters stopped raiding every comment section after zizek memed on him
Cuz this vid has 4k views. Just saying.
peterson is DONE
@@anshumansingh72 .. by an all meat diet.
probably because he turned out to be a junkie
@@kilroy6806 junkie is heroin addiction and that's all. go find some other horror to accuse him of.
12 Rules for Incels: An Antidote to Chads
That's actually such a good title, it's almost worth writing a book just to use it.
I think it would need to be gentle with the incels tho - I mean they're as creepy as hell, but I'm not sure that people laughing at other people even worse off than they are necessarily makes the world a better place, and I can't help but feel that a lot of these guys are genuine psychiatric basket-cases... and unlike JP, I don't think that any blanket diagnosis and prescription is a good idea.
Could be funny tho.
@titlewave How's it hanging chad?
lol. That was a joke.
I don't see how the book appeals to incels
@@snaek2594 Because Jordon Peterson wrote it - and his thing is to deliver pithy "self help" advice that has had paternalistic, hierarchical, conservative poison drip-fed into it.
Incels think that their inability to get on with women is the fault of women, and the progress of civil-rights, and they (as white males) deserve better. JP confirms this.
@@nicktaylor5264 No. I've read the book. The book as a whole is really not "pithy" (which is a compliment, by the way). The rules themselves are, but the entire chapters written about them go very much in-depth and are pretty dense actually. I'm going to have to reread it to get as much as I can out of it.
The book is "conservative" only that it doesn't completely reject religion as a source of knowledge. The way JP goes about religion is very much skeptical. I could describe it better but it would be too long for a reasonable comment (though I can explain myself if you want). It's really not as abhorrent as you think. The material is actually quite harmless and just good self help. (You can skip rule 1 if you have a serious allergy to hierarchies not being described as wholly socially constructed). Also rule 8 is skeptical of communism so that might displease you as well, but really it's just generally good advice.
The way you talk about it gives me the impression you've never even given it a cursory look.
"Wrens can't breathe underwater."
"I'VE TRIED TO MAKE THEM."
Peter Cook reference?
@@Retrostar619 it was a joke in the podcast
Best part of the whole thing
@@tomsouthworth4499 also a classic cook sketch from the 60s on teaching Ravens to fly underwater.
"What if there are hundreds of lobsters, all trying to make a living and raise a family..."
_Make a living, _*_what?_*
I remember listening to this ep when it released and that line absolutely cracked me up
Raise a family?? Lmao
sjnsingh1 : This and Nathan J Robinson’s article....!!
😂
lmao even lobsters live under capitalism in Jordan Peterson’s worldview
@@manorothpitlordextraordina4041 Lmao!
The success of Jordan Peterson proves to me that literally any idiot can fob off his ramblings as philosophical genius with the right coat of paint.
if they are given a spotlight by wingnut-welfare/rightwing media machine, and big Koch funding then sure. The big appeal of jbp is a professor and has a phd, which to them gives his crazy statements an air of legitimacy.
Thersites the Historian I disagree. I think it takes a special sort of idiot.
Nah, only a white, male one.
Thersites the Historian - You contributed nothing more than ad hominem masked as intellectualism. Thersites, I think not.
@@danalexander2149 And jordan peterson contributes illogical misrepresentations about bill c-16 masked as intellectualism. It's not an ad hominem if it's an accurate accounting.
Rule #13, always order Domino's; you never have to leave the house, never have to talk to anyone, and mom can bring it down to you.
And if she won't pay for it, call her a chaos dragon.
@@carolyntalbot947 you know that's happened, even if muttered under their breath while dragging their flabby asses up basement stairs
@@suzbone That's funny considering a damn Dominos is right next to me through the window, eh b'y, guess that's something to do with leaving in Canada, though ask Zach to change it to Pizza Pizza or some Canadian branded pizza delivery service.
Who would've thought that the female chaos dragon Peterson spoke of was his daughter all along
All the black guys that she has had sex with were just attempts at creating a balance through order.
Anyone with a lick of common sense probably. It’s a bit theatrical for me, but describes her pretty spot-on.
A Lion-Dragon.
@@bunwithgun1587 instead of taking her father to a hospital to treat his medical addiction, she sent him to some weird facility in Russia. From what I hear, the treatment was not good
@@bunwithgun1587 she also dated Andrew Tate, which is probably another sign she hates her dad
@@baptizednblood6813at the same time. So he got cucked by a 2 year old boy twice
“Bullying in schools, a good thing? Absolutely.” - Jordan Peterson
Jordan Peterson took that one MDE skit too seriously.
ua-cam.com/video/3YUAwFxhuNY/v-deo.html
We should coddle everyone; prep them for life in the real safe space.
context?
Someone should shove his Kermit-sounding ass into a locker for sure.
@@danalexander2149 because not bullying is DEFINITELY "coddling" . Refraining from abuse of power over arbitrary characteristics is DEFINITELY going to hurt everyone.
12 rules by Jordan Peterson
1. Be born white
2. Be born within the safety of a reasonably well-to-do family
3. Be born into a country with as little internal strife as possible
4. Be born a man (no take-backs or later dysphoria allowed)
5. Do good in school
6. Work on developing a personality that oscillates between reserved solemnity and snide narcissism
7. Drink Coca-cola zero
8. Get as stable a job as possible like a teacher or professor, something with a built-in socialist mechanism like a union or tenure to insulate you from any real financial gamble while lambasting others for not having a pioneering, entrepreneurial spirit
9. Stop drinking coke zero, start taking Klonopin
10. String together a loose framework of cultural conservatism, self-help mumbo jumbo, and cursory examples of legitimate psychotherapy to bolster your credentials as a mainstream intellectual before pulling a bate-and-switch as a turn-of-the-century Yukon-style, canvas-tent-revival huckster.
11. FInd a group to scapegoat (maybe not a racial or ethnic group. You know, a group of people to throw under the bus to use an example of what happens if people don't follow your vague, pedantic cultural thesis or whatever)
12. Have a bunch of scary masks in your weirdly modernist house to try on while a camera crew gets more and more uncomfortable with your general vibe.
Does Peterson want us to be the Green Goblin?
🤣😂 Thats Benzo Bozo to the bonw - some people cant think for themselves so turn to snake oil salesmen like Peterson - "Physician HEAL THY SELF"!!!
I would like to see that video where Peterson tries on masks in his modernist home, but I don't want to go trolling through UA-cam to find it.
@@barbarasmith6005 if you thought the UA-cam comments are enjoyable, consider reading one of my novels.
You could have provided intelligent criticism but instead it's just "muh racism"...
what happens if a lobster gets addicted to xanax
Turns out he'd go to Russia to stop cold-turkey in a coma and get permanent brain damage despite having a PhD in psychology that should tell him that's a stupid idea
@@jali4000 yeah lmao
It’s irrelevant, because you’re not understanding the neuroscience involved with bringing up serotonin levels and behavior and seeing the connection between species. Wow I need to go back to school, UA-cam isn’t school, it’s really proving to be a place stupid people go to feel smart.
@@jasonguthrie3515 Got em 😂😂
@@jasonguthrie3515 please tell me this is sarcasm
I never got the whole "makeup in the workplace is to make you look sexually available" thing; I've always assumed that the goal of most makeup was more about making yourself not look like a pale shambling corpse with dark-rimmed eyes because you're expected to look bright and chipper after 4 hours of sleep, and not look like you're about to cease existing any second at the hand of a migraine that permeates every waking second of your life.
Combine that with a social pressure from birth to suffer a great anxiety because of your appearance on any given day and bam, you've got an industry, no?
I read "The Beauty Myth" by Naomi Wolf a century ago, sort of, and cried a little bit, feeling sorry for ALL women (because after age 35 or so, all heck breaks loose!). But the thing is, though, women are human BEINGS, men are human DOINGS. Eighty plus percent of women can and do use either 1) their natural beauty or 2) their nat beaut plus makeup to get things, to get favors from those who are DOINGS. Eighty plus percent of men are screwed in our system, losing out to those born into money or with the Brad Pitt looks.
Beautiful women largely don't realize their privilege, don't acknowledge that it's just about a free pass that opens up so many luxurious doors.
Speaking from my experiences, makeup is often about hiding imperfections and avoiding ridicule, which can raise confidence. It isn't simply about gaining things from men, but rather avoiding cruel and harsh judgement. If you're an ugly or fat woman, you can see from "cringe compilations" that people will relish in your suffering and your demands to be treated in a way that allows them to accept themselves.
Listen, I know you're mad because I questioned your entire existence and legitimacy as a person to protect my fragile idea of white masculinity, but have you considered the lobster?
I know my opinion implies that you are a failed human being and do not deserve the same rights as me, but can’t we just be civil and polite about it?
Faux takes it up the ass like a lobster beta lol
@Koko B. Kakow thank you, I've been trying to tell people for years and years that bonobo societies are the superior societies, but they just tell me leave the Macdonalds drive thru lane
RighteousViking Lets not forget that, should said conservative snowflake be corrected or taken to task about his bigotry, he then whines about how his opinions are being oppressed just because society doesn’t tolerate his hate speech 😢
@Muslimcel ugh.
all of peterson's stuff is basically just him working through his own psychosexual demons.
You are ripe for Ivan's Shady Existence. It's right here at YT. He's also into the Buddha, a little too much for my liking, but I deal with it.
@@tarico4436 cheers, i'll check them out
And it's extremely obvious
It's almost more that he's rationalizing his own demons, which is the opposite of therapy.
@Vincent H. Long live the Memory of Michael Brooks.
Funny how people who say that socialism is about envy quickly forget that they defend a system that rewards greed.
Both are true
@Xela Flow that's literally envy. Whether or not it's the best route is a different conversation.
@Xela Flow cool your jets there.
*Envy*: "a feeling of discontented or resentful longing aroused by someone else's possessions, qualities, or luck."
Just because you insult someone on the internet doesn't mean you're not wrong.
@Xela Flow ok. but you're still wrong. You don't have to be right about everything, it's alright. We're only human.
@Xela Flow I disagree, and I regret to inform you that 1.) You just pulled that out of your you know where. 2.) You're being quite childish yourself.
Get your house in Perfect Order before criticising the world - which is why JP had to check into rehab for his benzo addiction.
He's human
@@classactionsteve im human too and ive never been to rehab.
@@ladedade23Blunticus well clearly you haven't lived my lad
I dunno Steven. He doesn't seem very human to me lol.
Going to rehab means you have "lived" apparently. Riiight. Jordan aka super serious and depressed/angry all of the time and can't get along with the ladies Peterson is "living" it up hahahahahahaha.
I was hooked on Ayn Rand when I was younger. Jordan Peterson is just the new Ayn Rand for the modern world.
Apparently you lack the ability to "reason", since there no comparison or similarity between
them.
Changed your mind.....let me help.
J GALT "Sure there is. Jordan Peterson and Ayn Rand argued philosophical reasons to take extremist right wing positions and devalue liberal positions. They both spoke of leftist positions as disguising a drive to power. Rand's strawman was Ellsworth Toohey, Howard Roark's antagonist in the Fountainhead, where the union organizing populist wound up having dictator sympathies. Peterson's boogeyman are all Postmodern NeoMarxists. There are differences. Rand was all about the money, Peterson about the personal. Rand was atheist, Peterson demands belief in God. The audiences they call, and the philosophy they espouse ultimately calls the same people, the same people who flock to Ben Shapiro and Dave Rubin for additional rhetoric to hate on progressive values."
So, you got hooked on "fiction"......whose main point, which she stayed true to....the right to intellectual
property.....you completely missed. ( and which was written in the early fifties. ) To even begin to
understand her and attempt a valid criticism would require actually reading her philosophy....where she describes
capitalism as the Unknown Ideal, cites central banks and bankers as a central problem.....despised libertarians
and most of the people that claim to be inspired by her, and titled her philosophy Objectivism....which would seem to
make any actual criticism rather easy, since pointing out "subjective" assertions which would be self contradiction, shouldn't
be that difficult.
Peterson is a subjective mess......who can't even define things properly, and can't produce an argument unless
he can distort the subject to his own construction.....and his "help" requires discarding reality, in order to
function. ( so if hooked for life is the goal....then Peterson is your guy....but there is no similarity to
Rand.....anymore than a "Cult of Individuals" is a "cult". )
@@jgalt308 I remember being on that train with you, the Taggart Express Comet rocketing toward enlightenment and self realization. I have given many of the same defenses, understood the world as you understand it now.
However, I discovered that my actions are not made in a vacuum, and the pain that comes with actions taken with no account. People are heroes so long as they take action for themselves but the moment they stretch a hand, it's a moral sin.
You aren't interested in any of that. You just want to divorce Rand from Peterson. You haven't given any points to defend your stance, just to read more to understand.
Rand loved her Aristotle, and absolutely abhorred Marx, not even deigning to name him in the chapter of Atlas Shrugged that she strawmanned the argument of "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need." She loved Victor Hugo as an author, and found her stance on Nietzsche changing as time went on, as she wound up saying she didn't agree with him despite the similarities in their master/slave mentality issue, as well as the overall ubermensch overtones that make up Rand's perception of the better parts of humanity.
I have read each of her works. In the end, they are lacking. Rand believed each person was a means to themselves. But we are not islands. We are together, sharing a brief existence together before we die. It's sad to see the world as a set of lessers and superiors. Even Rand waxed philosophical about this, that men of action, creators, prime movers, businessmen, only received a payment for the good or service, while all the people below just had to pay and got both the product and the sum of all the men's brains, making it a bargain. Jeez, by that mentality, I should kneel before Elon Musk and hope he graces me with a passing glance. By her view, I am beneath his notice or care, and whatever his sins, whatever his negligence, I can't complain, I can't protest, only meekly smile as Eddie Willers did, that feudal serf who would die in service.
Also to your last point: she did disown libertarians despite the fact that libertarians were a lot more in line with her line of thinking, of man's personal life and business life not being policed by the goverment, than Republicans which she was attached to at the hip with, which valued conservative family values and a strong military. She actually was pretty supportive of the military, going so far as to give a commencement speech at a military academy, going on and on about a story about a man on the rocket ship crash landing and the values that would help him stay alive, and mentioning Hand "Reardon", a weird misspelling of the name that seems to attach itself to her memory of the character movingforward.
Rand was very much a product of her time. Misogynistic, enamored with the glitz of glamour of Hollywood even as she herself denounced people that were into... "unAmerican activities."
No dude. My mind is made up, and need no help with the clarity I have discovered. Your creepy demand that I do so on command is suspect: why do you need me to change my mind, and how is your paltry evidence supposed to help?
@@linkkenni You were never on the train with me and you aren't on it now....but you did get one thing right,
my comment was directed at your Peterson comparison....and since you failed to address it, I guess you
don't have anything, so we can deal with your "mind reading" abilities and your "argument" with Rand.
Are you claiming that being "objective" is inferior to the subjective in determining where you are, what you
are doing, what is moral and what isn't?
Since there is no agreed upon "objective morality" or actual understanding upon the foundation upon
which it rests ( and is actually rather simple to derive ) all you are raising is "subjective moral arguments"
which "fail" immediately upon contact with "objective reality" and those things that intrude from outside
sources and may not agree with your cosy self contained system.
At what point to others have a valid claim on your thoughts or energy?
If people were generally predisposed to altruism and co-operation, other than when it is a necessary
rational choice of immediate or short range goals....then you would not be facing the present reality, and
the environment which encouraged that altruism and co-operation, disappeared the moment fixed agriculture
gave rise. to civilization....and that history is replete with evidence repeated again and again, that people do
not operate in that manner, and regardless of how that reality makes you "feel".....your fantasy is doomed to
fail, an no economic-ism will prevent that, since none of them are "objective" to begin with....as well as being
ignorant and detached from science, regarding the physicals systems on which life depends....and the understanding
of those things that actually compel human behavior, consciously or not.
This is not a defense of Rand, for none is needed....this is where "objectivism" leads, and you are more than welcome
to attempt an argument.....and need not consider Rand at all, to make one.
@@jgalt308 My comment was originally about Rand and Peterson drawing the same audiences and reaching the same conclusions when it came to being hostile to leftist thinking, leftist philosophy, and leftist politics. It's funny. Despite your attempts to decouple Rand from Peterson, you speak as he does, talking about the fantasy of making changes to systems that are hard coded. You are like a breath away from telling me to consider the hierarchy of the lobster. So I will answer the central question, which is literally the question that made me about-face on defending Objectivism.
"What do we owe each other?"
An Objectivist owes nothing. I owed nothing. I owed nothing to the lady dying of cancer. She should have been better prepared. Should have studied. Should have gotten that good job. Should have eaten better.
However, the supposed systems of economics that made it so the woman could not afford her cancer treatment aren't hard sciences, sir. The problem with economics and politics is that the systems are man made. They are arbitrary, and are only given value because we say they are legitimate institutions. They can be, and have been, changed. This is not fantasy. This is reality.
If the concept of the dollar, that Frisco D'Anconia so emphatically defended not as the source of evil, but the source of virtue, is so prone to being manipulated, transformed, and coveted, at what point is its virtue corrupted?
The issue is that money is money. It's not corrupt or virtuous. It is people that are. And the second blow to Ayn Rand's Objectivism is that no one person is capable of perfect rationality.
Every person suffers bias of some kind. No one is immune to propaganda. And people do not have an implicit inherent ability to perceive objective things from altered perspectives. Honestly, this is the largest lie Rand told her audience, that a man can inherently know right from wrong and proceed without accountability. That what James Taggart did to his competitor was wrong, but what Franciso D'Anconia did in creating a cardboard city with only a standing church was right. This double standard is rendered more absurd by suggesting that for the genius and ethic of a relatively few men, the world would come crashing down. It hasn't. It won't. The issue with the world's richest men is that their industries are not successful because of them, they succeed in spite of them. Squeezing every person for every cent has the effect of over inflating the value and worth of businessmen. They can be replaced, as anyone.
So what do we owe each other? My own personal answer to this is dignity. You see, it is my belief, based on the fact that before I am human, I am a collection of chemicals, born of stardust, the rarest state of matter of the universe. The state of life.
Assuming you're not a bot, and even if you are, you are also born of stardust. Our entire planet is. 7 billion plus souls trapped together in a single blue planet hurdling across the universe, the only ones of our kind we have ever seen. We are alone in that regard, and the vast distance of the universe is so great that looking up literally unnerves me.
What I owe my fellow man is the basic dignity of understanding that our consciousness is a miracle, that it is brief, fragile, and fleeting. Understanding that every one is precious. That everyone has a story. That everyone hurts and everyone can laugh. That overly cliche simplistic answer is my answer to what I owe the stranger down the road. The answer is that I owe them the benefit of existing in the same space as me. That we are together in this. That they aren't a statistic, even if the whole of humanity is this in the end because I simply don't have the processing power to understand otherwise.
Through others, I understand myself. Since I value myself highly, I must afford that same value onto others. Everyone deserves the dignity of being human, and with that, certain unalienable rights and privileges. Of course with that comes responsibilities, but I already meandered several thoughts to someone who wholeheartedly is not in the same place and wholeheartedly only wants to criticize my thoughts and my original observations about Rand's audience and Peterson's audience being roughly the same, rather than have a conversation about them.
In any case, that's my answer. People owe each other dignity, and the responsibility that comes with that. This ultimately puts me at odds with Rand, who immediately discounts anyone who is a drain on resources as a second hander, and Peterson, who pretty much tells his audience to put up or shut up, and tries, quite vainly, to tell people how to measure up while killing their empathy. The word humane, whose root word is synonymous with being human, is empathy, is compassion, is the things Rand would turn at disgust at, Peterson castigate as being lacking in experience in the "real world," and both deign a perversion in pursuit of power.
Also, I gave a pretty damning response as to how Peterson and Rand's work have a large overlap, and I don't foresee you saying anything other than "I didn't make an argument." The argument is all the text you didn't copy and paste in your reply.
Peterson feeds his followers word salad and they think it's T-bone Steak.
@Ty Thomas Boxing Training we sure need self-help advice but we don't look for it from right wing reactionaries? If you need recommendations fam, I've got a few, i'd be happy to help out
Supporting our current hierarchies as the natural order and opposing any change is the definition of reactionary man... you look a fool
@@ryangriffiths3552 this is also a wrong interpretation of what "reactionary" means.
Lol, un uh, you are. That is indeed what a reactionary is. It's a not word like femur, for instance, which only has one definition. What he described truly is a reactionary. Jp is fits the bill to a tee. I can't think of a more apt example of a reactionary, actually, at the moment. Who would you say is a reactionary? Bernie Sanders lol? Not in a million years. Go read a book...a decent one. Self help is a scam for suckers who arent quite gullible enough for religion.
Also, jp is postmodern and uses postmodern critique in his work and debates all the time. Thats one of the funniest things about the guy
“Bart the General” clearly glorified the coming together of all the school’s kids to take down their oppressor (Nelson). Peterson clearly needs more Simpsons screen time.
They already made an episode about "campus hysteria" so why not
shoulda cleaned your room instead of popping those pills bucko
Sociopath
@@tomwaitsmencse The good doctor should have been more sympathetic to the struggles of trans kids and people with depression if he wanted anyone except his fanbase of sycophant reactionary dipshits to feel bad for him. He made a name for himself peddling pseudoscience and belittling vulnerable people, he can go rot for all I care.
@@Komnen0s yawn. Curious you chose sympathetic instead of empathetic you sociopath
@@Komnen0s psuedoscience as opposed to real science huh..
@@tomwaitsmencse benzos and beef
Peterson : Order is inherently masculine, chaos is the way of the feminine.
Also: Boys, you have to start cleaning your room, come on!!!
yeah... those two ideas do not contradict...
Peterson’s schtick about natural male dominance in animal hierarchies conveniently ignores the many cases of female-dominated animal hierarchies. You’ve got ants and bees (both being socially advanced creatures) revolving around their queen. You’ve got female spiders that eat the male after mating. You’ve got the octopus - an amazingly intelligent and feeling animal - where the male just dies after he blows his load. The list goes on. Pretty flimsy argument by JP.
Do you think the man who implied he was in support of forced monogamy would give a fuck about matriarchal structures in nature?
Very interesting comment! Except because peterson never said that human societies are naturally or actually male dominated, nor that there is any prevalescens of male societies in other species.
"Every time your critical of anything he says his fans are like 'well, you gotta watch 10,000 hours of his videos before you can legitimately criticize him'". This is what I hear from someone I used to be friends with who was a big fan of his, and defended him even when I brought up that he's retweeted content from a blatantly neo nazi Twitter account. Twice. It's hard to impossible to reach his fans.
Henry Liedtka I watched 10,000 hours of his videos in about 30 seconds. Dude’s the master of time dilation.
"its easier to clean your room when your zonked out on zanny bars" - jordan peterson 2020
Links, let's go.
Source please
Sounds like you didnt feel the need to investigate, acted like a jerk and got dumped. Am I wrong?
The best part about jordan peterson is how far outside of his lane he steps, and all these people who try to call everything a fallacy dont realize that THAT in and of itself is a fallacy. His complete misunderstanding of lobster behavior is hilarious too. Serotonin causes extreme aggression in things like crustaceans and arthropods. It's completely different than the effect on humans. His entire theory of psychology is based on a lobster in raging psychosis.
The straighten your back thing isn't even particularly good advice. You slouch because your muscles are underdeveloped and your body naturally takes on a posture that is less taxing. Forcing yourself to straighten up isn't fixing your problem; it's more like covering it up. You may invariably develop back problems because your back isn't stable enough to maintain the position. The only way to improve your posture is build muscles in your neck, shoulders and back through regular physical exercise. Good posture means that your body is strong enough so it doesn't takes conscious effort.
This is the first useful thing I have inadvertently learned through anything Jordan Peterson related.
Thanks.
@@CarlyonProduction same. I
Peterson shouldn't be seen as a healthcare advisor. Neither should this.
There is a very valuable, scientific field of sports and rehabilitation medicine that can actually help you understand your skeletal muscular system, how it is most functional, how to avoid things that create chronic stress and weakness that makes injuries more likely or even inevitable.
Slouching is incredibly bad for you, and you should absolutely not do it. Having poor core musculature posture, resting position and strength are very very bad for you.
Just "straitening up your back," as straight as you can would be very bad too. I have no idea how familiar Peterson is with the actual science... and I'm not really interested in trying to find out what he means, but if he was saying "learn to have a healthy, functional, and confident appearing posture is a good choice," he would be on to something. If he means a military style straight posture, he'd not be onto something. Regardless, slouching on purpose is a very fucking bad suggestion, and instead of taking advice from someone who has no idea what they are talking about, I would encourage anyone to find a reputable sports medicine practice and invest in their health. Yoga can be a pretty good alternative, but it might require a good teacher, and I have no idea how an amateur goes about finding a great teacher, and I am not qualified to help there either.
Don't slouch people. It slowly cripples you. Peterson has nothing to do with your biology and the importance of respecting your spine so that you are happy to have it be an important part of your body for the entirety of your life. Don't listen to him, listen to medical professionals, or maybe Yogis.
That's neo-marxist claptrap
Can confirm, was told to stand straight and shoulders held back as a teenager. Now my upper spine is flat and doesnt have the normal curve that it's supposed to have, not really a massive problem but all of my muscle issues in the shoulders or upper back stem from that.
Yoga helps a bunch though.
"Wash your ass and brush your teeth"
Words to live by, thank you Professor Peterson
Let's be fair, his fans don't know to do either of those things.
@@freakyzed8467 well, isn´t that the first thing you learn at home? Jesus!
@@ilianamarisolromero7816 I see you’re lucky enough to not have met any of these folks, in person.
Most of those dudes look up to Jordie because they had parents that shoulda never had kids - and those parents parented in the lowest effort way possible. They see a father figure in Doc Clean-Your-Room, sad to say.
Its pretty sad.
“… extra points for using the same brush.”
- George Carlin
Here's why peterson is obsessed with feminine dragon of chaos and the king of order.
He's literally selling ancient messopotamian mythology.
The dragon of chaos is Tiamat, the goddess of the primordial sea and creator of life, the king of order is her son who killed her and built a kingdom on her corpse, the continent.
I wish I had a feminine dragon. Scaley fantasy is the best fantasy.
Logical and reasonable.
All dragons in western and Middle Eastern myth represent both chaos and control over chaos because of how dangerous snakes were to our ancestors. Eastern dragons less so because they’re mostly based on fish. This is what people don’t seem to get with Peterson, he’s explaining that all of these myths are a way that our ancestors used to illustrate our psychology and how it interfaces with reality.
@@SeppukuAddict Psychology?
That tale was the messopotamian equivalent of the "mandate of heaven", it's not some profound and long lost knowledge or wisdom, it's ad-hoc justification of an arbitrary hierarchy, specifically made to justify why those in the bottom should be kept there.
There's no wisdom to gleam from peterson's ravings as the most fitting interpretation is that he either advocates for a monarchic theocracy or a society that retains the values of that primitive system. (Something that becomes increasingly evident as you realize that his entire public saga of advocacy is him having a tantrum that society has begun moving past the primitive values he grew up with and he's been doing everything in his power to revert that, regardless of the consequences)
In addition to that, your understanding of mythology is beyond lacking. The symbolism of dragons is extremely varied with examples like Longs and Quetzalcoatl that have the absolute reverse interpretation.
@@fl00fydragon Hilariously ironic that you guys complain about Peterson’s word salads and manage to keep a straight face 😂 I’ve not seen him advocate for anything beyond taking responsibility for your actions before pontificating about how the world should be governed, but of course socialists with no lived experience would have a problem with that.
My understanding of mythology is quite sound, hence why I said eastern dragons tend to be different, the artistic expression is much more aquatic and comes with different meanings. Quetzalcoatl has many different spheres, the most prominent of which is mankind itself, and is associated with medicine and wisdom, but also with treacherous storms. This is what I was talking about, he is a dualistic expression of mankind being able to pare order from chaos and use either as is needed. It’s the same as the Middle Eastern wise man milking the venom from the serpent, he transforms the root of their suffering into something to understand and use to reduce chaos. The serpent IS the dragon.
Peterson has never advocated for hegemony and you know it, he has repeatedly said that order at the expense of all else is tyranny, and that to live one’s life in the most responsible way you must have a foot either side of the line. Not wanting a revolution =/= monarchism.
Whenever I'm depressed I periodically check into this podcast just to hear.... "I'm edging, Dad!" 😂😂😂
Same here. It's so hilarious
AHHHHHHHHAHAHAHA! 21:03
Good luck in rehab, professor. I say that genuinely, but I also relish the irony.
Lmao I forgot about that
it will be a great comfort to him when he finds out they have 12 steps there too
Some of his lobster fan are starting to deny he went to rehab and are saying he was detoxing O.o
His daughter has also been on drugs as a teenager. Yeah, set your house in perfect order before you criticize the world, Lobsterboy.
@@mausklick1635 They were both prescribed these drugs you sadistic morons. His daughter had hip and knee replacements and surgeries because she had rheumatoid arthritis. Peterson's wife had cancer and immediately after that a terminal condition they didn't think she would survive. He was prescribed medication as he is prone to depression and anxiety. What the flying fuck is wrong with you people?
"Two year olds do not have philosophy, they don't even have bowel control." Gold from Matt Christman.
Maps of meaning. My fav halo combat evolved mission lololol
Brilliant icon.
I'm %100 sure when my mom puts on makeup to stock shelves at fred meyer she's not trying to look sexy.
The comments on his videos have a very repetitive tone of “reverence” as mentioned here. The focus is on him personally, less so his ideas. I find it creepy.
Every "badboy philosopher-intellectual" needs a cult of personality, because their goal is to sell products and profit. Intellectual merit doesn't matter when your goal is making money off of people who would rather be told they're correct on everything than actually think critically for once.
His ideas are boring and gay.
People bashing a 60 yr old prof that wrote a book:
-He CLEARLY is sexually attracted to fish....
People who just don't care and have bills n shit:
-Right on, I'm hungry
The irony.
Jordan Peterson takes the ideas of Jung that are actually nuanced and complex and twists them to fit his concept of a hierarchy that is inherent in human nature. Jung's goal was to help humans truly understand themselves and their unconscious. Comprehending it is how we become complete. Everyone should read Jung in my opinion, and JPs ridiculous caricatures of Jung's concepts should not be viewed as an accurate representation of his ideas.
@Tommy Boy wow. Great analysis.
I'm going to start my own movement and call it "The Intellectual Snuff Film"
The snuff boys would be a great group name though.
His take on the 2 year old bullying him and his daughter is wild. He doesn't even consider the correct course of action, which is to tell the child his action was naughty and to identify the parent, so discipline can be administered.
He's such a little coward his only two considered options are to A) attack the child or B) slink away in defeat and remember it for the rest of his life. He gets owned by a toddler and defends his manhood by saying "it's society's problem that I am not allowed to attack children"
"This toddler may have just dommed me by accurately assessing me as so afraid of confrontation that I will allow my daughter to be his victim with 0 consequence, but my bedroom is tidier than his."
No wonder his daughter ended up dating Andrew Tate.
I think Jordan Peterson means for us to "fight the chaos" in women by making them orderly - in other words, easily accessible, within reach, and orderly. Enforced monogamy.
@@Aleara27 he's obviously watching way too much interracial porn.
The Peterson impression is on-point.
For me Peterson has always just seemed like an opportunistic grifter saying and doing whatever to appease his fanbase and keep making that $$$$
Guy records himself saying the same thing for 4 years. On year 5 people catch on.
>opportunistic
Smd
A young man suffering from the Electra Complex inevitably grows up to be a beta lobster. It's just how the CGI universe works.
😂😂😂
Bari Weiss takes credit for creating the acronym, IDW. Even if it’s wrong, that tells you every-thing.
who dat?
@@weatheranddarkness Dumbfuck zionist op-ed writer. If you're watch chapo on youtube look up their takedown of a really trash article she wrote about Australia.
@@weatheranddarkness
She's the absolute worst. The Meghan McCain of the IDW.
Check out her new interview with Jake Tapper where they discuss how everything is anti-semitism always because some jewish kids tried to use an ancient technique to re-attach their foreskin so they wouldn't be made fun of in the basketball locker room one time. I'm not lying.
@@p.chuckmoralesesquire3965 in the US? I heard circumcision is pretty popular across the board over there. How many layers of shit can there be?
The Secret plus the bell curve Perfect😂😂😂😂
Peterson talked about marxist infiltration the same way the nazi had painted marxist as the enemy, the crytpo-nazis probably read that or saw that and cordinated something probably to make him popular.
I roll my eyes so hard at "Marxist infiltration". Anyone that has read the history of Marxist movements knows that Marxists were rarely ever quiet about Marxism. In addition, Marxism had nothing to do with gender politics or race politics or any of the other major talking points of the Left. Marxism saw history as a single fundamental conflict between those who worked the means of production and those who owned the means of production. Sexism, imperialism, racism were all just different manifestations and tools of bourgeois oppression of the working classes. The entire notion of the worker is fundamental to Marxist ideology. It's like trying to have Nazism without the anti-Semitism.
Yet labour issues are only marginally discussed in modern left wing political discourse. It's an element of the discourse, but hardly one that dominates that discourse.
8:20 This is a really good point - a message that's mediated seems more valid because someone deemed it worthy of being mediated. People really will stand in front of a large printed hi-def framed photo of your foot and critique it. Even if you only took the photo because your hand slipped. Even after finding out the image was shot by mistake, they can still theorize that. Some people see that as Post-Modernism disappearing up its own ass, others see it as liberation from ancient oppressive forms of derived meaning.
Greil Marcus wrote about a documentary that showed a bunch of suburban teens dealing with the tragic death of one of their own. They mill around aimlessly until a radio plays a song one of them called in and requested, the favorite of the deceased. They freeze and pay attention, then one of them lets out this long yell. The point is that consumer modernity might have freed us from the old cultural ways of doing things, leaving us in free-fall, but there's still that primal social-animal need to have an event framed and re-presented by a shaman, a priest, a DJ or a movie star to give that event a sensible place in social life. So i just wrote a UA-cam comment about a book mentioning a documentary in which a song was broadcast on radio.
Smartasses used to sit around and sneer cleverly at both sides of this, having THAT mediated to the world is a new and shiny thing.
Lol this was easily the most thought provoking comment I read in here and everyone just whistled and walked right by it in order to go to the part where we defend and/or ridicule an internet celebrity. Its actually ironic on the order of laughable, because it exactly proves what both you and I took from the moment at 8:20
Yes, this person is a quack, and his subjective Jungian psychobabble is almost comically bad. His ideology and establishment of what he refers to as the "left", neo marxists, pimping this woefully oversimplified version and compelling us to fear the other. Also that endless prattling about ancient stories and conceptualization of meaning and truth, only to at last circle back and tell us we need to care because morals are good and God gave them to us etc etc. I could go on but why bother, most of it is truly absurd and I believe designed to make people feel he is an intellect by way of over complication before goes for the jugular.
However, this other message he is delivering is the real sleight of hand and where all the power and resonance with his audience truly exists. This simple refrain of self determination really IS working a spell on people in two subsets. The kids who like it are sure that this is a good, passionate elder who has shown them the way. It IS good if it helps them get their life together and I mean that; but on the other hand, what does it say about the state of camaraderie and isolation if he is the person who has to do this for us? Especially when some of the jingoistic boys clean their room so well they buy a .223 to put in it and then one Friday night take it out to a Wal-Mart to try on some brown people they don't like?
Now he's really got our balls in the vice though. the absolute vitriol that I'm reading for the last two hours in this comment section is really going to make this fire burn bright. The sheer animus he brings out in us accelerates his fame more than the fanboys ever could, and its his proof of concept. No different than Trump, or even those Logan Paul kids, they are creatures of a new age that we aren't equipped to deal with. They are symptoms of the post-modern, and they already know something we don't. The type of response we give to them in opposition is their single greatest asset to increase their influence and voice. You beat them by tolerance, with polite but direct dismissal of their bullshit and focus on the argument. Unfortunately, what I am seeing thru this lens is that most of us are nice, smart people but it's simply too tempting to get in the mud and play. We can't resist calling a spade; and fuck does it feel good to call him a nazi junkie who talks out of his asshole. Why do you think he makes these lipstick distinctions? You can make the same point and connections in way more polite language, but you need to be playing his kind of chess to realize he wants you to think of him as a mysogonist fuck and go put it all over every video he's in. He doesn't reject the post modern, he's fucking embracing it. This concept more than anything else should help out him as a complete charlatan.
So I was trying to think, why does he make people so much more pissed than others? My estimation is that his whole persona and subject matter is evoking a higher level anger. He's the father figure, opining about days of yore and trying to prove it to you. He keeps saying that word "radical" like pinko is going to be the next one. Then he tells you some hard lessons and to clean your room, because he loves you and wants the best. He is trolling in a way that isn't apparent. His whole style makes him familiar to us whether you like him or not.
What scares me really is that someone like this might be earnest or they might be completely bereft of empathy and it's very hard to know.. people are split in a similar fashion on the president, and I have suspected that had Peterson not gone off the rails with his drug issues that he would be jockeying soon for some kind of political office. Do you want to chance it?
I'll get to the end of this, sorry. The worst of what is going on right now, is embodied by the polarizing elements like JP. My feeling at present is that we have become more self-reflexive than ever before. As you so excellently put it we're in danger of disappearing up our own ass. We are woefully devoid of traditional touchstones that help us feel belonging and sharing and doing replacement therapy with accidental foot pictures and videos of people we can laugh at. Modernity has replaced your dad with JP and in all of our newfound self awareness and expression we can't figure out that saying the dirtiest word you know about him is helping make his case. This is why the cancel culture is happening, we feel so impotent that we forgot you don't beat bad speech with silence and hate with more hate. No one read the post I'm replying to and no one is going to read this one because its too long without a bigpayoff and requires introspection. We'd rather find the funny part or where the guy says the daughter is a dick sucking crack ho. We want to listen to the same songs we like over not new ones. You won't discover anything new if you're looking always for proof that you're right about everything. We have the tools to discover and challenge right in front of us, but more than ever we just want someone to say we're right and its okay.
@Brad Bayuga In The Fascist Bathroom
lobsters cant drive cars, chickens can't drive cars, so humans can't either! - jp
Peterson never talks about how family heirarchy was basically a structure of RESOURCE GATHERING that become archaic because of technology and individualism.
Good point but is it really fair to castigate the methods of "resource gathering" because it has led to the success of western societies?
In this crazy, post labor, postmodern & post interdependent society we're living in, should we not move forward with a modicum of reverence for the past?
@Joe Average I'm trying real hard to cuss your useless Tankie-ass out but my comments keep getting deleted.
Kermit the Fraud
Why do we have to pretend JP has anything to say about anything that is worth listening to?
We don’t, dullards do.
That he is a leading psychologist and has read A TON on everything he is speaking about?
He told us to clean our rooms one time.
Cause for all the verbose complaints and criticism he was very much benefiting from his status as a tenured professor (ie: a member of the post-modern intellectual elite)… he’d have nowhere near the exposure to sell his own brand of bullshit on the marketplace of ideas without the Marxist education he received in the socialist dystopia that is Canada. The sheer rank hypocrisy in any number of areas would be hilarious if it wasn’t so terrifying.
His books are snake-oil made from dead trees… Professor Jordan’s essential advice for Incels... It was likely as natural a progression for him as it was for the idiots with no other smarter or more powerful people to latch onto finding him in the first place… or to put it another way, “if you’re a big fan of The Secret, but it didn’t have enough social Darwinism for you…”
No need to pretend. He has ;)
Always funny to think that there are people on this planet who see jordan peterson as a best example to aspire to.
Frightening actually.
@@HxThomison It's horrifyingly depressing.
@@Im__Andy-f6x what’s horrifying to me is that people think it’s bad to have someone inspire them to be a better person.
@@PudgTV I mean, if you need him to inspire you to do basic things, you need help
@@Rossoneri2 Do you have any inspirations or people you look up to? I don’t want to get too deep here but not everyone had a father figure or a role model in their life. Not saying he’s exactly that but sometimes it’s nice to have someone to tell you you can be better.
Matt: He stepped on her fingers. "You're witnessing a gweat becoming...' Classic Chapo.
Peterson is like a politician but because hes not in office he never actually gets held to account.
He speaks so vaguely that its hard to disagree with him and incredibly easy to fit him into whatever beliefs you have already.
His only concrete beliefs are that freedom of speech is important, order is important and that you should be a good person.
He also does his flirtations with christianity, so christians think hes a Christian and atheists think hes just interested in it.
Genius in a way.
The lobster line made me think of Time Cop. The same lobster cannot occupy the same space space at the same time!
Letting a psychologist speak with authority on philosophy and history is like letting a mechanic do brain surgery
Well that is stupid
add politics to that list
*Dude listening to 4 trust fund comedians for politics*
The Kermit voices are gold.
Studies of the participants of the 1/6 insurrection showed that their major motivation was fear of demographic replacement, which I thought was obvious, as I frequently heard them talk about taking “their” country back. Peterson is their spiritual leader.
I've never once heard Jordan Peterson utter a single thing worth repeating. Not once. In fact, I've never heard him quote anyone else and found it worth repeating.
Rule 13 of life.... don't be a drug addict
Rule 14: don't fall into a coma and wake up in a Russian hospital
my mind is still recovering from all these deep ideas
ENGAGE RECOVERY MODE
I like how Peterson acts like his opinions on how the world should be are objective fact.
The Ayn Rand syndrome.
As a French person, I can confirm that I control everything
and as a black woman I destroy things with my innate chaos
@@aprilcox871 You have the same name as my proffessor
@@itisakubrow6361 the assignment is due Thursday
The Peterson phenomenon will never cease to mystify me. The cool-headed, well-rounded, intelectual aesthetic notwithstanding, there's really nothing there. The depths of his insights are a joke even when he's right and his polemics betray a lack of understanding or dialogue with the ideas he targets. This in and of itself isn't rare, there are academic niches for this brand of sunday school intellectual that are very insular and cut off from the broader schollarly conversation, but the fact that he enjoys mainstream popularity and the priviledge to run his mouth beyond what he's suited to with complete impunity just leaves me in total shock.
white male alienation from society, combined with the destruction of revolutionary organizations culminating with the fall of the soviet union basically the biggest sign that a better egalitarian world isn't possible means that those people r more guided to reactionary tendencies than revolutionary tendencies.
I think you mean cease not seize.
@@MonoPrime Yup. Grown fucking man continuing to make simple spelling mistakes. Don't tell his fans that I've yet to "clean my room". Lol.
It is a generation of children who grew up with emotionally neglectful mothers and absent father figures. Working lik e a dog for 50 hours a week leaves very little energy for you to be there in the way a child may neeed. It ususally isn't even purposeful neglect. My Mom was emotionally neglectful because my dad just went to prison and she had to work to support us. I understand why Peterson canbe appealing,, however I was lucky enough to grow up right before instagram/dating apps so I actually had women friends and got laid in highshool. I think its as simple as the opposite genders don't know how to talk to eachother due to the prevalence of social media. You used to have to get to know people. Now you just look at a profile. . Oh and definately partially Buzzfeed's fault. Buzzfeed owes feminism reparations.
@@slowloris2894 I think you make a lot of good points. It seems Peterson appeals to young men with a specific set of problems like alienation, isolation, and he is a kind of role-model or father figure for them. I really wish I could know more about Peterson's own life because I can't help but think his views indicate some kind of past trauma. He seems to have such a skewed understanding of the world.
You appear to be insightful about the issues in your life. Unlike Peterson, it seems you don't look for a scapegoat.
I want to just heartily thank you guys for doing this podcast, in general. My friend sent me the Exit Through the Gas Chamber. It’s been hard to find something that had the right balance of black comedy and informed insight and now I’m hooked. Keep up the great work. I’ve been a bit intellectually starved lately and this show has been a remedy for the atrophy!
The reference to "Confederacy of Dunces" is a chef's kiss. That is such a great book! (20:56) Yes, Peterson is Ignatius J. Reilly, what a great comparison!
💯💯💯 YES! 😂
Jordan "you can't quit smoking without having a supernatural experience" Peterson...
Logic and reason, yeah!
Did he actually say that or are you just misquoting the guy who got famous for being misquoted?
@@JKenny44 watch the discussion and come back when you're not ign0rant!
One thing I don't get about Jordan Peterson is how much he loves Nietszche and hates post-modernism and fails to see a contradiction there.
I have been thinking about this episode a lot lately, and especially the part at the end where they say “He just wrote a bad book.”
It goes without saying that this ep is out-of-date seeing the horrific path JBP has travelled down, all I can think is that had he just been the self-important professor who penned a self help book and then dissolved into irrelevancy he would be so **so** much happier. He could have just collected royalties from his book, been a millionaire and lived an exceptionally comfortable lifestyle. Of course though he couldn’t do that, his own ego and the way he perceives himself has dragged him into the fucking reactionary swamp.
I love how Peterson just asserts that chaos is symbolically associated with the feminine... How? It seems like he could have said anything and his fans would just run with it.
'Consider the Lobster' is a great set of essays from David Foster Wallace. I like that you use the tag, and the topic to label congruence is great, but still kind of bothered that there is any association of any kind with Nazism-funneling 'philosopher' Jordan Peterson.
Re; women and makeup implying "arousal..." I always figured the rosy makeup was meant to imply physical *health*, in contrast to a pasty, sunken, wan complexion. Ever see a cancer patient? They're not exactly flush, most days.
263 angry lobsters
Finding out he was xanzibared the whole time was so cathartic
Honestly if people haven't read Women Who Run with the Wolves, let me tell you Jordan Peterson's work is like borderline plagiarism of it. It's this bizarre 90's second wave feminist book talking about female archetypes in myths in EXACTLY the same voice JP uses to argue that Elsa from Frozen is a chaos dragon.
As an aspiring author, that's one of my least favorite words: plagiarism. Also, no YOU'RE borderline.
Kidding. I hope you LOLed.
The fact that Peterson's book was a best seller is a seriously disturbing fact.
I love Felix's bit about Jorp not going away because I'm sure none of them thought it'd be something as dumb as "destroyed his brain with benzos and then got taken to a shady Russian hospital by his psychopath daughter to fix it" that would finally get him to fuck off.
Honestly, I know this comment's half a year old but yeah, that was a twist that I feel we should have seen coming, the guy who gets so angry about someone smoking weed that he writes about throwing them out of the house and talks about how you have to have your life in order before you can ever try to improve the world would have to be an absolute trainwreck on more than just a mental and emotional level projecting, since all these dorks on the right are constantly projecting any time they open their mouth, but honestly it still just caught everyone off guard, and it's funny seeing his dumbshit followers just carrying on like this didn't happen or like he's not a benzo addled grifter, like they would if anyone on the left who ends up in a similar situation in a heartbeat and start mocking without a moment's hesitation
If only we were so lucky that JP would finally fuck off 🙄
The lobster is back and apparently speaking authoritatively about what it means to be a black American with all that life experience he has as an underrepresented racial minority…
Ignoring the loadedness of the term, his ideas are fundamentally facist.
Chaos is feminine? Well, Slaanesh is, sometimes. The others are either masculine or agender.
Scott Charney. Tiamat
@@kingontherise1021 From D&D, among other things?
Please just stop.
@@HxThomison ?
God bless you wonderful men for this critique. Hahaha. My dating life sucks because of ubiquitous Peterson fanboi-dom
Yeah... That's the reason. Keep telling yourself that.
Peterson is the archetypal example of the laughably transparent pseudo-intellectual.
Dude begins with a conclusion and then finds evidence to support it, rather than the other way around, then tries to explain how his method is somehow based on "science" and "reason" while in reality it is utterly opposed.
Peterson gets the Tao wrong cause the masculine Yang is associated with passion and chaos while the feminine Yin is ordered and calm
50:16 "rule number 11, do not bother kids while they are skateboarding, because they can be really mean and hateful, and I HATE THEM I HATE THOSE LITTLE BRATS, I HAVEN'T HAD A WEDGIE SINCE MIDDLE SCHOOL, *crying sounds*" - Jordan Peterson.
One thing I never understand about religious fundamentalist naturalists; if everything that’s happening is sourced from the beginning of time, arent the people ‘interceding’ supposed to be doing that?? 😅
Substitute teacher that uses light swear words analogy is fucking perfect.
Chapo's substitute teacher anologies are on point.
Jordan Peterson is possessed by Kermit the Pepe
Someon needs to write a book called '12 Rules for Lobsters'
Jordan is who dumb folks think is really smart, lol.
He knows what a woman is. That is pretty smart.
@@NathansHVAC we all know what a woman is. It's the right that doesn't understand the difference between sex and gender. It's explained to then over and over, but they are so mentally broken they can't understand.
I'm happy I know I'm dumb. Capitalist greed whores think they are smart. Sub prime was intelligent. Corporate greed is smart. I am not your friend. I trust and believe I'm dumb. I like Jordans class lectures. Because I'm dumb. I'm excited about being dumb. I didn't invent any bombs or wars or viruses or new loans to fuck poor people. I bask in my stupidity. It's my blanket. Keeping me from thinking I'm a hero to the unwashed masses.
Just remember, your leaders everywhere, they think that they, are correct, in their actions. Always
It just occurred to me that at 49:00 they start talking about the bully thing and Jordan Peterson unironically thinks that the Sam Hyde bit about bullying early and often is a model for schools. It's a good thing to let bullies do their thing.
"fuck me up, buddy!" - jordan peterson fans (paraphrased)
"Whos who in the chicken world has important implications to each birds survival, particularly in times of scarcity" Well in human society what that looks like is in times of scarcity the ones on the top created the scarcity, then take more and more for themselves and fuck you.
This is so good, I have to split it into 2 listening at least, I'll be replaying over and over
Not to mention his comment sections are flooded with people praising him personally instead of expounding of The ideas he's presenting and how to implement them in your personal life. People are either unable to understand his abstraction and call it all bs, or just foam at the mouth and worship everything he says while doing nothing for themselves
It's a sad state of affairs when this screwball's opinions are actually adopted by the lost youth, a result of boomer parenting. I know people who listen to this dribble.
Thank you for all you do, Chapo.
thank goodness i think JP's 15 mins of fame are up. honestly outside of people who just watch youtube all day, nobody else i knew actually knew who jordan peterson was.
that being said, his terrible benzo health and deteriorating mental state seemed to have did him in. Good fucking riddance
I had someone whose opinion I respect ask me if I listen to Benzo Doctor and it was such a bummer
Jordan's inability to succinctly express their philosophy, and their constant reference to other philosophical schools (i.e. Daoism) makes referencing said schools a potential landmine for any person attempting to seriously communicate their own philosophy.
Jordan is correct in communicating that in Daoism (a dualistic or dimorphist philosophy in which all concepts contain an essence of "yin" or "yang") both the concept of feminine and of chaos are in the category of "yin".
But at no point does Jordan ever explain this. He just strings words together in a very prosed manner to where the meaning is left wide open to interpretation, successfully saying nothing at all.
his daughter flew him to russia and turned his brain into soup. omegalul
And gave him covid, apparently. Petty though it may be I take great delight in the fact that his downfall came from his idiot, grifting daughter.
If he had just stuck to psychology, he could have retired semi-respected as an academic that was known for occasionally being a dickhead to trans kids.
Jordan Peterson didn't mean that in the way that everyone would interpret it and whatever he just said, he didn't say.
The enlightenment was when Thomas Edison invented the light bulb. Checkmate liberals.
Got em 😂😂😂😂
Peterson stumbled upon a gap in the market. He links taking personal responsibility to increasing the meaning in one's life and talks about how to build yourself up into a better human being. This is appealing to young men, largely because it's not a message being sold to us from the left.
Zizek came out and said that there was nothing wrong with that message, and asked why can't the left wrest ownership of this away from the right. I think Zizek has a point.
I agree with you but I don't know how "the left" collectively solves that problem. Peterson is a guru figure. Self improvement is not really a feature of the right in general. Nobody's listening to Steven Crowder for tips on how to be a better man. There already was a left wing version of Peterson, the Men's Movement of the early 90s. maybe some guru could bring it back. but left wing gurus are usually bad, IMO
13:12 Matt getting to the core dynamic with JP and his fellow retrograde grifters
Nice to hear a level and humorous conversation about and critique on Peterson's book, awesome job guys!