GMBN needs to demo the We The People Swampmaster, Full Suspension BMX Ultimate test, is Wheel size more important than frame suspension for rough terrain. 29er hardtail vs 20" full suspension.
Put 29” wheels back on and just go as narrow as you can with the tyres instead, I reckon some 35mm gravel tyres or 28mm road tyres would do the trick 😀
I ride a 29er normally and it has been great but i just revived an old 26 dual sus from the mid oughts and ill tell you while its definitely too small for any distance riding its much more nimble and i had way less hesitation launching it on jumps.
I would really like to see you ride a bike that was designed for 20 or 24 inch wheels. I bet it would feel a lot different . And if you cannot find one, you could build it 😂
I can remember literally all pro riders saying “I’d always stick to 27’s because their just more fun and maneuverable but if 29’s help me to win a race, I’m all in. I’m curious how they would reflect their comments today.
The 27,5 bashing gets really annoying. If all you want is to keep the handlebar straight und roll over stuff, 29 is great. If you are a playfull rider with trial-skills 29 just sucks.
Funny how history repeats itself ... I along with many others have been riding 24" wheels since like 2002.. I own 30 downhill and freeride type bikes, all 24 and 26" wheels. I've also got high BB full suspension that I run 20" wheels with 20x4 fatbike tires on 😅
How about a GCN colab. Blake races Manon. Manon using her gravel bike to race on Blue trails. Doing a set number of laps. Blake on an enduro bike riding up a fire road or suitable trail. Then down a Black run for a set number of laps. The laps don't need to the the same number. Just start and finish in the place. Maybe start with the downhill section first.
What you really need to do is put 26" wheels on a modern bike with update geo. I believe this will prove it was a mistake for the industry to get rid of that wheel size.
There's only so far you can go with geo on 26ers before the BB gets really close to the floor, unless you use really thick tyres. They should offer modern bikes in 26 or mini-mullet though, for funsies.
@@kingflynxi9420 I really missed 26" wheels when the industry got rid of them. My interest in mountain biking declined massively after that. They should have left the choice there for us.
I had an old frame lying around, an Azonic Revenge and enough spare parts to put a bike together. instead of slapping on 26" wheels i put on 20" wheels instead. its a hell lot of fun!
I think a lot of the issues you're running into aren't inherent to the wheel size but are more about trying to adapt a bike that wasn't designed for them. -An ATS/schlumpf speed (or high speed) drive would help you gear up nicely without needing a massive chainring. It would give you an SSmtb gear and a granny gear. Alternatively you could use a mountaindrive for an ssmtb to put the reduction gear as the granny gear. alternatively an internal hub would avoid derailleur clearance issues. -At 20" of wheel size a lot of bikes have BB rise rather than bb drop which would make everything a lot more steady and help clearance issues. -While there aren't many proper 20" MTB's out there there are a lot of ATB type bikes with 20 inch wheels. Bike Friday All Packa, Burro bikes, itty bitty kyoot. Custom offerings from falconer (made for isao) and schon (made for the maker). Historical examples like the VVA topanga. General feedback says that a 2.8 or 3" tyre helps a lot with rollover, square edged impacts and general grip to overcome the short contact patch. There's a full squish BMX called the swampmaster also but the geo is very much bmx and not mtb. I think the concept is super interesting and a lot of people seem to vibe with it! Maybe you could weld up a frame (or hook up with a friend of the channel) that works in some modern geo concepts and see how much capability you can wring out of the concept.
@@Gravel-Cult that will definitely help- at the same time though the off road brompton suffers in a lot of of othere ways by still having brompton geometry, lack of suspension, narrow bars, poor chainring/redailleur clearance. These aren't inherent to the 20" platform
@@kailashblades One of my bikes is a 20 inch wheel folding bike adapted for gravel riding. It is less about creating the perfect bike and more the challenge of being under biked and conquering the terrain. I am more of a "party at the back" guy at gravel events. The 20 inch wheels on the Brompton should raise the bottom bracket. It will allow for more crank arm clearance which seemed to be issue in looking at the way Blakes was pedalling The Brompton uses an internal hub so no derailleur clearance issues with the ground if the retention pulley is adjusted right. I am not saying it is the ideal bike just a fun ride and Blake being such a legend at riding free style could lead to some stunning footage.
Next thing to do: make a #QUAD. Four wheels + four separate air suspension points. 🤘And the best part is… Blake has to weld something. Which is in the first place pretty cool. Ps: I sometimes ask myself… what does Blake love more? Welding or biking? 🤔
the number of 'serious' comments coming up w/ 'better' wheels' size combinations... same users would comment on 'perpetual motion vids' w/ ideas on how to improve the designs :)
@@floydblandston108 Wasn't sure - never measured. But I was asking since my 26er has larger 175mm cranks - the only thought process being maybe they lowered BB height on the 27ers and 29ers along with all the other geometry changes.
@@floydblandston108 Okay, so then BB height stayed constant relative to ground - therefore ground clearance would be the same regardless of frame used.
@@nukedathlonman - Generally correct. Some frames and manufacturers differ though, for instance Specialized has always liked a relatively low bb height.
Can you imagine that you’re riding down a trail and then see Blake freaking Sampson!!!! On 20 inch tires. I think that it’s fair to say that he was riding a tricycle with the derailleur on the ground
It needs a massive chainring like a Brompton to balance the small wheel which is effectively a third gear. It will max out, you need to measure acceleration over a short distance.
It's doable- 20mm change in axle to crown changes fork angle by 1 degree, and increases trail by log. Watch out for bb height, some frames can lift the bb above the rear axle with much change at the front, which is very bad in almost every way. Specialized usually uses a lot of bb drop, making their old bikes good candidates for a conversion, and many Fox forks could handle 27.5 in the smaller 2.0-2.25 sizes.
So fun, brilliant, but how about a dedicated 24” build. I race a 24” front and rear bike back in the day; late 80s. It had a higher BB in order to prevent catching pedals. Back then mountain bike races look wicked different and the grandads of the sport were just trying everything. Again, brilliant fun. Thanks Blake!
I took me until September 2021 #to go for a 29er. I always saw the as pointless. Usually calling a hybrid with fat tyres and suspension or a gravel bike with flat bars, fat tyres and suspension. I've mainly 26" wheel bikes. But I have had one 27.5" bike. I won't be going back to 26" and it's highly unlikely I'll go back to 27.5" as well.
Mentioning 29" as the better "rollover" wheels, when is it time for 30" / 31" , telling us it's the only way to go? Looking at S Frames with 29" wheels I am reminded of steampunk somehow 😂
Never seen the difficulty here; 120+ years of history teaches that small means nimble steering and rugged, while large increases rollover and smooths out the ride. Off road motorcycles use proportions closer to the "69er" than the current 'mullet', but both are superior to equal sizes except in the case of extended climbing. Is that so hard?😑
I own a 2023 mirror polished alloy 26" MONGOOSE Fireball SS Dirt Jumper.... The FORGOTTEN Wheel Size. I love my Bike and I would NOT change it for anything.
Who cares about the difference of mountain bike wheels on smooth roads? Nobody! The difference is on the trails with roots, rocks, ruts. This is where the bigger tire is smoother and faster overall.
I think I’ve seen some clues as to what’s coming next but didn’t think it was finished, if it’s what I think it is you’ll like it a lot best option for the FoD, ps mine are 42 & 118 respectively, what’s your number?
would be funny to see similar tests with a kids bikeframe. Lets say a frame for kids around 12 year old and see how big you can go with the wheels. Or how small....or get a fixed size in the tires; say 27,5 and see how small you can go in frame before the frame gets too small to handle the tires.
It's a shame you used a 29" frame for this, BB height would've been significantly better if the frame was 27.5 to start with.. Should be about 20mm of difference, that's quite significant
I own a 2023 Mirror polished alloy 26" MONGOOSE Fireball SS Dirt Jumper.... The FORGOTTEN Wheel Size. How about talking about our great SPORT and the sick BIKES we use for once...
GMBN needs to demo the We The People Swampmaster, Full Suspension BMX
Ultimate test, is Wheel size more important than frame suspension for rough terrain.
29er hardtail vs 20" full suspension.
Put 29” wheels back on and just go as narrow as you can with the tyres instead, I reckon some 35mm gravel tyres or 28mm road tyres would do the trick 😀
Absolutely hilarious!!! Keep that kind of stuff coming!
Its always just unbelievable fun watching blake doing cool stupid stuff
Love the Manitou fork!
I have a old cannondale super v with 20 inch wheels. Its so much fun in the city and looks amazing😃
thats the sam pilgrim spirit🥳😁🤟🏻
A couple more psi in the IRT would sort out the diving when you're running smaller wheels - love the content!
You always amazed me Blake ... I wish i've got half of your skills 😁😁
you can do a test of thin vs wide wheels for enduro mtb
I ride a 29er normally and it has been great but i just revived an old 26 dual sus from the mid oughts and ill tell you while its definitely too small for any distance riding its much more nimble and i had way less hesitation launching it on jumps.
I would really like to see you ride a bike that was designed for 20 or 24 inch wheels. I bet it would feel a lot different . And if you cannot find one, you could build it 😂
26” isn’t small, it’s average. 😔
why dont you guys try 24 inch wheels with the halo 24x3.0 tyre?
I can remember literally all pro riders saying “I’d always stick to 27’s because their just more fun and maneuverable but if 29’s help me to win a race, I’m all in. I’m curious how they would reflect their comments today.
It’s always fun watching your vids.
Blake, how about building a hardtail frame with proper modern slack and long geometry for 24"!?
The 27,5 bashing gets really annoying. If all you want is to keep the handlebar straight und roll over stuff, 29 is great. If you are a playfull rider with trial-skills 29 just sucks.
Funny how history repeats itself ... I along with many others have been riding 24" wheels since like 2002.. I own 30 downhill and freeride type bikes, all 24 and 26" wheels. I've also got high BB full suspension that I run 20" wheels with 20x4 fatbike tires on 😅
Test Idea:
Full suspension BMX with gears
Vs.
Full suspension 29er MTB.
This will shake things up.
How about a GCN colab. Blake races Manon. Manon using her gravel bike to race on Blue trails. Doing a set number of laps. Blake on an enduro bike riding up a fire road or suitable trail. Then down a Black run for a set number of laps. The laps don't need to the the same number. Just start and finish in the place. Maybe start with the downhill section first.
What you really need to do is put 26" wheels on a modern bike with update geo. I believe this will prove it was a mistake for the industry to get rid of that wheel size.
There's only so far you can go with geo on 26ers before the BB gets really close to the floor, unless you use really thick tyres. They should offer modern bikes in 26 or mini-mullet though, for funsies.
@@kingflynxi9420 I really missed 26" wheels when the industry got rid of them. My interest in mountain biking declined massively after that. They should have left the choice there for us.
Stop crying Because your riding an old bike 😂
@@kingflynxi9420 the nicolai g18 hammer comes with a 26 inch rear wheel
you can still get 26 and put it on yourself, nothing stopping you, you just have to be aware like the other guy said that it screws with the bb height
Bring back the crab. Would love to see it get painted with “Dip Your Car” Dip Armor!
I had an old frame lying around, an Azonic Revenge and enough spare parts to put a bike together. instead of slapping on 26" wheels i put on 20" wheels instead. its a hell lot of fun!
😂 Blake your content always brings the laughs
How about a recumbent on a flow line/pump track? I think jumps would be too dangerous but...
Wheelchair down a dbl black next!
I think a lot of the issues you're running into aren't inherent to the wheel size but are more about trying to adapt a bike that wasn't designed for them.
-An ATS/schlumpf speed (or high speed) drive would help you gear up nicely without needing a massive chainring. It would give you an SSmtb gear and a granny gear. Alternatively you could use a mountaindrive for an ssmtb to put the reduction gear as the granny gear. alternatively an internal hub would avoid derailleur clearance issues.
-At 20" of wheel size a lot of bikes have BB rise rather than bb drop which would make everything a lot more steady and help clearance issues.
-While there aren't many proper 20" MTB's out there there are a lot of ATB type bikes with 20 inch wheels. Bike Friday All Packa, Burro bikes, itty bitty kyoot. Custom offerings from falconer (made for isao) and schon (made for the maker). Historical examples like the VVA topanga. General feedback says that a 2.8 or 3" tyre helps a lot with rollover, square edged impacts and general grip to overcome the short contact patch. There's a full squish BMX called the swampmaster also but the geo is very much bmx and not mtb.
I think the concept is super interesting and a lot of people seem to vibe with it! Maybe you could weld up a frame (or hook up with a friend of the channel) that works in some modern geo concepts and see how much capability you can wring out of the concept.
This is why Blake needs to ride the 20 inch wheel Brompton from over on the GCN Tech channel. He is going to have more bottom bracket clearance.
@@Gravel-Cult that will definitely help- at the same time though the off road brompton suffers in a lot of of othere ways by still having brompton geometry, lack of suspension, narrow bars, poor chainring/redailleur clearance. These aren't inherent to the 20" platform
@@kailashblades One of my bikes is a 20 inch wheel folding bike adapted for gravel riding. It is less about creating the perfect bike and more the challenge of being under biked and conquering the terrain. I am more of a "party at the back" guy at gravel events.
The 20 inch wheels on the Brompton should raise the bottom bracket. It will allow for more crank arm clearance which seemed to be issue in looking at the way Blakes was pedalling
The Brompton uses an internal hub so no derailleur clearance issues with the ground if the retention pulley is adjusted right.
I am not saying it is the ideal bike just a fun ride and Blake being such a legend at riding free style could lead to some stunning footage.
Folding bike MTB! Lol, could be a disaster, or really stupid fun.
My little one loved watching that haha.
Next thing to do: make a #QUAD. Four wheels + four separate air suspension points. 🤘And the best part is… Blake has to weld something. Which is in the first place pretty cool.
Ps: I sometimes ask myself… what does Blake love more? Welding or biking? 🤔
the number of 'serious' comments coming up w/ 'better' wheels' size combinations...
same users would comment on 'perpetual motion vids' w/ ideas on how to improve the designs :)
The mech being so low gives me shivers :D
Get the 36 inch wheel bike and a 20 inch and do sumfin crazy!
Cool! Strange question, but would a 26er frame have given you a little more ground clearance for the cranks?
BB height isn't inherent to wheel size.
@@floydblandston108 Wasn't sure - never measured. But I was asking since my 26er has larger 175mm cranks - the only thought process being maybe they lowered BB height on the 27ers and 29ers along with all the other geometry changes.
@@nukedathlonman- yes, usually bb height is set at a constant relationship to ground level regardless of wheel size.
@@floydblandston108 Okay, so then BB height stayed constant relative to ground - therefore ground clearance would be the same regardless of frame used.
@@nukedathlonman - Generally correct. Some frames and manufacturers differ though, for instance Specialized has always liked a relatively low bb height.
Blake, you are craaazy! 🤙🏻🤙🏻🤙🏻
I'm gonna ride 27.5 until I can no longer get a bike with them
Can you imagine that you’re riding down a trail and then see Blake freaking Sampson!!!! On 20 inch tires. I think that it’s fair to say that he was riding a tricycle with the derailleur on the ground
that was hilarious ! keep it up
It needs a massive chainring like a Brompton to balance the small wheel which is effectively a third gear. It will max out, you need to measure acceleration over a short distance.
My man actually compared a mountain bike to a Miata 😂. Fortunately I have both so I'll let you know.
Should’ve gone for Zee 10sp derailleur. Super short cage suits 20” wheel
24x3.0 on the back of an old 26" dh bike is a fun way to recycle them for goofing around.
XS frame size with 24" or 20" wheels.. bring the BMX feel to the bike park..
Love to see you experiment with brakediscs and see if you can set something on fire 🔥
What jacket is Blake wearing in this video, seen them in a few now
what crank is this? love it :)
The videos are great :D i like your happines
What I want to do eventually is put a 27.5 fork and wheel on my new to me 2013 NOS 26” GT Zaskar with a 26” tear. It’s currently a 26 X 24.
You may be able to squeeze a 27.5 in the 26 forks depending what they are, if they suntour 26 probly not unless you use a skiny tyre but
It's doable- 20mm change in axle to crown changes fork angle by 1 degree, and increases trail by log. Watch out for bb height, some frames can lift the bb above the rear axle with much change at the front, which is very bad in almost every way. Specialized usually uses a lot of bb drop, making their old bikes good candidates for a conversion, and many Fox forks could handle 27.5 in the smaller 2.0-2.25 sizes.
@@floydblandston108 solid advice
Try with two 20 inch wheels in line on the back with a 29 on the front. Maximum grip, get your welder out😂
Blake is super funny.... lol
Use different crank size ! Will you be faster uphill with smaller crank?
The phrase you are looking for at the start is "baseline" -you're going to set a baseline speed that you're going to compare the other wheel-size too
Blake, 26 forever 😉
Also 3x forever 😜
Trek ex fuel 8 2012 😎
Al least until will be parst🤣
Something I'd like to see, high pivot Vs crank freewheel
Those tiny pedal legs look like chicken legs 😄
I want to see a mullet update video using the 36er
Try the WeThePeople Swampmaster next! A full sus bmx bike, got your name written all over. 😅
So fun, brilliant, but how about a dedicated 24” build. I race a 24” front and rear bike back in the day; late 80s. It had a higher BB in order to prevent catching pedals.
Back then mountain bike races look wicked different and the grandads of the sport were just trying everything. Again, brilliant fun. Thanks Blake!
I took me until September 2021 #to go for a 29er. I always saw the as pointless. Usually calling a hybrid with fat tyres and suspension or a gravel bike with flat bars, fat tyres and suspension. I've mainly 26" wheel bikes. But I have had one 27.5" bike. I won't be going back to 26" and it's highly unlikely I'll go back to 27.5" as well.
You done a front wheel drive bike yet?
Well it's not far from a dirt bmx with a mtb geo.
Oh no... Bmxduro here we come 😅
If there was a market for mini velo MTB's, that 24 inch version would be it.
Blake thinks to himself; "Hmmm....how can I get GMBN to pay for a new wheelset for my DJ?"
With the 20" wheels it kinda looks like a pit bike, lmao
I would love to know how it felt going back to the 29ers
Does anyone know if i can put a 29 on a 275 nukeproof scout?
Here in spain I can only buy the 275 :(
Ride a penny farnworth on MTB Trails
On the 20inch the derailleur was basically a third wheel.
Mentioning 29" as the better "rollover" wheels, when is it time for 30" / 31" , telling us it's the only way to go? Looking at S Frames with 29" wheels I am reminded of steampunk somehow 😂
Never seen the difficulty here; 120+ years of history teaches that small means nimble steering and rugged, while large increases rollover and smooths out the ride. Off road motorcycles use proportions closer to the "69er" than the current 'mullet', but both are superior to equal sizes except in the case of extended climbing. Is that so hard?😑
CUP O' TEA!
Great vid, I would love to see a 12 speed cassette on the front and single on the back.
Why didn't you do this sketchy thing with both wheels? because that's crazy!
26 inch is absolutely the best in every way! I don’t care what anyone says that 29er’s are nothing but a gimmick.
I own a 2023 mirror polished alloy 26" MONGOOSE Fireball SS Dirt Jumper.... The FORGOTTEN Wheel Size.
I love my Bike and I would NOT change it for anything.
XC bike with a DH fork, DH bike with 100mm of travel F/R
Would be interesting to know: if gravity was the only accelerant, which version would be fastest down a tarred hill?
I have $5 down on the 20s.
Who cares about the difference of mountain bike wheels on smooth roads? Nobody! The difference is on the trails with roots, rocks, ruts. This is where the bigger tire is smoother and faster overall.
I think I’ve seen some clues as to what’s coming next but didn’t think it was finished, if it’s what I think it is you’ll like it a lot best option for the FoD, ps mine are 42 & 118 respectively, what’s your number?
So the smaller wheels are exactly the same but different!
1200mm bars!
would be funny to see similar tests with a kids bikeframe. Lets say a frame for kids around 12 year old and see how big you can go with the wheels. Or how small....or get a fixed size in the tires; say 27,5 and see how small you can go in frame before the frame gets too small to handle the tires.
Great minds think a like
Crazy funny!
It's a shame you used a 29" frame for this, BB height would've been significantly better if the frame was 27.5 to start with..
Should be about 20mm of difference, that's quite significant
Should team up with fingers crossed bmx and test ride there full suspension bmx bike
There are people that actually build downhill 20” bmx bikes with mani forks they look of the chain
I want one! 🎉🎉🎉🎉
Next a cub with a adult fork
Microshift makes super short derailers for 20in and less
Did you have the 24” front tire mounted backwards on purpose?! 😎
I own a 2023 Mirror polished alloy 26" MONGOOSE Fireball SS Dirt Jumper.... The FORGOTTEN Wheel Size.
How about talking about our great SPORT and the sick BIKES we use for once...
20” is the future
Very entertaining
20 inch wheel sits as low to the ground as modern duallys 🤣
Brompton G line
24 rear 26 front for downhill...back in 2004
You can still buy 3.0 rears in 24", just sayin....😁
@@floydblandston108 downhill needs fat tires . Especially for hardtail. My knee hurts...
Legend
If possible build a tiny frame and put bigger wheels on.
Or ride a Tandem bike will someone else on it on the trails
I honestly expect to see that crank touch if you go down too far with the wheel size.
B-LAKE ❤
You wont be getting anymore nukeproof bikes Blake as they have gonebust with chain reaction and wiggle