BJJ Gym Politics: Old School Mentality vs New School Approach
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- Опубліковано 18 тра 2024
- Do you train at a traditional Jiu-Jitsu club? Or do you roll at an Academy with a modern take on BJJ? There is a conflict between what is considered a "Traditional" Martial Arts approach to teaching Jiu-Jitsu and what some may call Modern Bjj. If your preferred training style is different to your Academy's teaching philosophy you might find yourself caught up in some Gym Politics.
1.) Loyalty vs Flexibility
2.) Tradition vs Effectiveness
3.) Self Defence vs Modern BJJ
4.) Dictator vs Democracy
5.) Martial Arts vs Athletics
There are Pros and Cons to both approaches but working out which one you are prepared to accept and work with is key to getting the most out of your Jiu-Jitsu journey.
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I’m a purple belt under my coach. Went white, blue, purple under him. And I still feel like I don’t belong. Belonging is important; and despite his standoffishness, I’m still very loyal. But it is weird.
Samesy. I don’t have those belts, but spent 8ish years in a gym with an instructor only socialized in the real world with a couple students. Seemed cold and standoffish, but he also didn’t bring drama to the mats.
That sounds like a tough situation mate. Ultimately if you can learn and it works for you thats fine, but you might be in a bad relationship and not realise it because you haven't trained at another gym where the coach is more engaging.
Haha sounds like we might be going to the same gym, I'm also a purple belt, my instructor is an absolute weapon, old school, very standoffish but sorta-kinda friendly in his own way, I know we'll never be close "mates" but that's what the rest of the guys in the club are for. I'm thinking his way of thinking is he's not there to be our mate, he's there to teach us great jiu-jitsu, which he definitely does. 😉
@@7Phoenix1 as long as you get what you need and you enjoy being there thats what counts!
@usernamemissing9965
Some of our relationships in our life are meant to be more for their own sake and some are meant to be more transactional. There is obviously some crossover there, but many if not most fall heavily in one camp or the other.
You have to decide whether or not you are willing to put up with this relationship remaining only transactional.
If you aren’t OK with keeping it that way, then I would suggest initiating some type of social activity outside of your school that doesn’t involve BJJ - a BBQ, some other sport or activity, etc. I would also make it a group thing (guys from class) so that it would be less awkward.
Men tend to bond over hobbies or activities, whereas women more easily plug into each other without a common goal or task in mind.
As a wrestler it has been fascinating to enter into the culture of BJJ. The holdover's from martial arts "honor culture" are the parts that are most foreign as an athlete. I certainly had respect for my coaches, but that respect had very little to do with the position that they held as "coach" and was almost completely built around their expertise and commitment, not their title.
As a wrestling coach now, I would never dream of expecting one of my wrestlers to avoid training under a different coach, or with different teams. It's just not an acceptable practice. Bowing, belts, tribalism, etc. In my opinion, these are the negative aspects of BJJ culture...
...but there are also upsides to BJJ culture over wrestling culture. BJJ is exponentially more geared towards pedagogy. There are way better instructors in the BJJ world than the athletic world. I think the reason for this, is that BJJ encourages peer-to-peer learning as well as learning from the head instructor. People are constantly asking/showing technique to each other. In the wrestling world, if someone kicks your butt, you don't ask them "what did you do to me?" ...and if you dominate someone, you don't offer, "here is how you can stop this next time," unless you are a coach.
I'm happy with my coach being well respected and kind of neutral and compatible with everyone in the area, more new school and more old school gyms alike.
New school all the day, my gym includes catch wrestling twice a week and I love using all its dirty tricks when rolling in the gi, truly makes you a good fighter and not just a rigid traditional guard puller
I really appreciate how open my coach is with belts and where we are at cause it allows me to be comfortable asking questions on what i need to do to get there without him thinking im just asking when im getting my purple belt
I used to think i wanted a old school gym but i like having multi colored gi's and crazy rash guards.
We are all about the colour!
I've been doing bjj since 2005. The first gym I started at was straight old school Gracie style. Then the instructor retired to Brazil, and his son took over. He made the gym more into a NoGi style open policy cause he was an ADCC competitor. So there was a lot of cross-training. I eventually left when I was a brown belt to train with my friend who open up a gym. His gym was a mixture of both. I'm in the process of opening my own gym. When I do, I will be more like a new school gym because in the end it's about my students💯
I feel fortunate that my gym is a new school vibe but with small dose of old school!
as i’ve binged majority of these podcasts - i can’t believe the amount of haircuts joeys had 😂🙌🏼
look forward to the next chat boys
Thanks for the support brother. Yes Joey always comes with the fresh cuts!
Great episode!
I loved and related to this episode so much. As you guys spoke about, and you know JT, I've been under Cherubin since day one and I've visited as a drop in to a lot of other places around the world and Australia and I see the old school vs new school thing all the time when I go to a new place. Where my home is has a perfect mix between the old school and new school. When I say that, and as you described, we are an open and welcoming club and always looking to evolve our own skillset and share with visitors and learn from them as well. The old school element for us at HQ is the training. When we get on the mat, we train hard almost every night but we also know there are guys on the mat who are in every day and might have a slower more technical night too. The freedom is what has kept me there from day one all the way to black belt and I can't imagine anywhere else as my home.
The issue I have with some of the old school gyms is their ranking system. When I first did BJJ, I was beating blue belts and purple belts, as a white belt, at meets, at the gym. But, because I hadn't mastered some outdated list of techniques (which was not told to me until way after the fact when I saw my old coach at a meet), I was told that I wasn't ready for a blue belt at the time.
So, it is cool that I am submitting blues and purples at meets and at my gym, but because I missed a day or two of class and didn't learn this technique and wasn't told that I need to learn this technique...you are gate keeping a promotion from me. The fact that school before it got sold was getting destroyed at meets (and eventually no one signed up for meets), didn't give them any kind of feedback that maybe there is a different way to do this...
This is the only Jiu-Jitsu podcast that i listen to. U do a great job of discussing every possible angle of the subject being examined.
Check out the chewjitsu podcast it's also a gem!
Hey Jeffery thank you so much brother! We appreciate your support!!
As an American I'm 25% here for the accents.
If done well the old school teacher / student relationship is a major advantage the new school cannot as easily provide. The hierarchy is not only so your professors have authority over you, rather, as in the Asian cultures they come from, the student has the duty to listen and obey, but the teacher has the duty to nurture and do good by you (give his own time, not charging $ when he can, etc). The mutual honor and respect then is passed down through the hierarchy from higher to lower belts.
Yes when done well this can work well. Unfortunately this system has been delivered poorly and it is the rare exception that it is delivered well. The commercial nature of business means its less about honour and more about financial viability. And that's understandable as all businesses need to make money to be sustainable but perhaps that means we will see less and less of the old school approach surviving.
Been a active purple for 12 years.... been in both kinds of schools. Good & bad in both
This literally happened at my gym in the mid-Atlantic region of the USA. Word for word.
I am a newb to Jiu Jitsu, and came with an empty cup attitude, even being a brown belt in Judo (but a long time ago). I am rather well verse in the basics, but there are huge differences between BJJ and Judo, so relearning the basics is certainly ok with me. However, to keep me at JUST the basics, even after showing strong proficiency, is hampering my growth in the sport. Should I still expect to stay at white belt for nearly 1-2 years? Likely, but I also have the mentality that just because I wear white, doesn't mean I cannot perform above my belt rank. Old school would tell me I will be in white regardless. New school may promote me quicker because of my background. For me, this is about learning, not ranking so I don't really care. My partners have already found out that rolling with me is not like your normal white belt, but I am learning from white belts as well and will continue to. I think your mentality is the difference between new and old style schools.
Hey fellas I love the podcast ! New follower here . Mid 40’s brown belt here , you guys keep it real . Real jiujitsu talk . Thank you !
Welcome to the Channel brother. We are stoked to have you here.
This is quite an entertaining podcast guys
Glad you like it mate!
I'm a one stripe white belt. I'm fortunate enough to have a gym where new knowledge is not shunned, and most people know your name.
They haven't taught leg locks, but honestly, there is too much to learn. I know they are a thing, so I'm learning not to give up a leg. That's good enough for now. I'll circle back to it, when I get a few more stripes.
They'll teach it to you eventually. One stripe probably means you've been there under six months they will loop back to it. Straight ankle lock, go master that
I believe, just like with almost everything in life, extremes are not good. I almost equally despise 100% old school mindset and 100% "do whatever, we're all going to die anyways" mindset. I think as long as you take elements of both perspectives that further good fundamentals that are useful in self-defense, further growth in BJJ as a sport, create an inviting and safe environment where it's not the wild west, and are able to build a community for people that also NEED a community, then that's great. IF you want to be 100% old school or 100% "modern/competitive/athletes" only, then advertise it as those things and see where the chips fall.
I believe a balance of both is the right call, and almost all dojos have a different balance but are similar in many ways as well.
Hit the nail on the head..... no gym is perfect and it just comes down to who you like to hang out with.........
😂😂 love these guys! 19:14
As a coach it’s your responsibility to tell the student what they NEED to do to get their next belt. Not
Mystify it, and talk in riddles, use it as a power trip
Back in around 1998 I trained under a Bara black belt in Boston. One of our purple belts was going to Vermont and wanted to train at a Carlson BB gym. He got denied. back then your teacher needed to be on the same team or you were considered a bjj spy lol
Yeah exactly
I’m from Vermont, I didn’t know we have a Carlson Gracie Gym!
@Patrick Lucey the instructor, was one of Carlsons OGs. Academy has been there since the mid 90s. Back then there were only 2 gyms in new england and we couldn't train there.
It's a funny hang up from that time when BJJ Techniques were secret.
Burlington, I think
One downside of the new school is that 90% of what you use in competition isnt necessary on the street. If you arent training for sport, but for a hobby or self defense, one of those old school dojos might be better. Since the Gracies developed their version to dojo storm karate folks, they have pretty good ground and pound defense. Works well in combat juijitsu environments.
The new school is so much better against a grappler, though. You aren't looking to do speedy armbars or triangles from the bottom. You're looking to maximize control over body mechanics. Works great on wrestlers and judoka.
Old school is good for white and blue belt and they should master it, imo. Purple and up should work new school. Every pass puts you into half guard where you fight for a sweep or closed guard. The basics are old school I think. Worm, K guard, guard this guard that are for people that have the fundamentals
I remember going to an open mat after getting my blue belt and the no gi white belt dude completely shit on me with leg entanglements. Knee bar, toe hold, heel hook. Tapped me over and over and over. Humbling fr lol
Hey guys question about the mobility foundation. Is it a good idea to do the warmups even on days where i dont do jits? Also how about when sore? Probably 1st thing in the morning or after work..
Definitely- fit in your mobility whenever it fits. First thing in the morning is great and the longer hold flexibility work before bed is great too.
Great podcast gents. I am a 40-year-old three stripe white, and as you can imagine, I am chasing blue. Given the self-imposed etiquette around asking, “when” as it pertains to promotions, I decided to take a different approach. I ask my coach “hey, what do you think are the two things I should be improving right now to step up my game?” This is of course assuming that the coach regularly sees you in drilling and sparring, and whatever they say tells me what I need to know. I guess that it also lets your coach know that you are hungry for improvement and with regards to the question of promotion, I suspect they will be asking them self themselves that question and evaluate you accordingly. That’s as much as anyone could reasonably expect. Thoughts?
how long have you been training?:)
@@zevstarr-tambor7084 just under 12 months
As long as you are improving and feel your skills building this is the key. Time to belt will always vary from instructor to instructor.
also amazing podcast again lads !!!!!!!! keep it up
Thankyou Big Man! We appreciate your support.
How can you determine you're not "learning anything" as a blue belt respectfully looking back when I was blue, I didn't know what I didn't know
My gym is a hybrid of both. No formalities or warm ups, students are encouraged to try the latest moves they’ve seen online. BUT, my coach doesn’t allow walk ins in our gym and although he doesn’t say it straight out he’s clearly not happy about ppl training outside “I’m worried you’ll get hurt” I prob train outside 30pc of the time without telling him. Slows my belt progression I guess but whatever
Lol wtf
Maybe he has something to hide
Any coach who won't let you train at other gyms is definitely working off a fixed mindset. If you love your gym you will always train there but if you train somewhere else and realise its a far better experience then you might have good reason to leave.
If your coaches haven't fight NHB/MMA/Vale Tudo your school is not old school.
It might have an old school mentality but it's not old school. 🤙
I turn 50 Feb 2024 train both gi and no gi. (Purple belt)I'm all about no gi and I'm still holding my own for now!? 😢😅
One of the hosts looks strangely familiar to a dude I met under Queensboro Bridge....
Those old school professors need to be WORSHIPPED
If you are a blue or purple belt, and you switch to a different school, do you typically start at the same belt or white belt?
You should stay at the same belt but it might take a while for you to grade again based on how the instructor views your standard compared to their own.
@@bulletproofforbjj Thanks
I’m allowed to show up smelling of illegal drugs, new or old school?
Sounds like they accept you, that just good for you.
Are you guys business owners 😅?
We're old school AF. You roll from day one. You're allowed to learn and do heel hooks, foot & leg locks at white belt. Only the strong survive. I was a white belt for nearly FIVE YEARS BECAUSE I JUST DIDN'T GET IT, BUT I JUST SHOWED UP. I JUST earned my Blue belt LAST YEAR LOL. On that note, you're allowed to train where ever you want to and the instructors are super chill! :D
That’s not old school
That sounds like a tough path! you definitely earned it!
That’s literally not old school at all. Did you listen to the podcast?
Muting the profanity 😭
You guys often make coaches sound like the most petty people in the world.
Do all the new school you want, but please learn the fundamentals. People try leg locks and ankle locks and whatnot, meanwhile they have no idea how to open and pass a guard, can’t retain a side control or mount, sweep??? What’s that? 😂 every white belt wants to be Gordon Ryan, and never even learn the abc’s first.
And here I thought you guys were about to denounce feminism and the rest of liberal progressive politics.... For shame. ..
What are they woke?
@@GibsonLanes yes.
HAHA. We are not woke. We are barely awake 😂
Nah man, we are just talking straight up.
The belt thing is so stupid in almost everything that you do in your life you talk to your instructor or your financial adviser, or your strength and conditioning coach on how you can develop about talking about about does not have to be about getting graded it can be the development within the belt self, and then after you get the belt, what development could happen, there are many many different ways to talk about jujitsu belts, without asking for about an all of them okay nearest so many taboo subject in Jiu Jitsu . That literally just hold back the student from achieving their goal