This is precisely why I only run 19’s on my ‘23 MSP as this is basically a non-issue. Plus you save $4.5k, get a 50ish mile range bump, thicker tire for better ride and pot-hole durability.
The wheel size makes no difference whatsoever. Alignment is alignment is alignment. If you have, say, 3° of negative camber with a 22” wheel you’ll STILL have 3° of negative with even an 18” wheel
@@paulvina1974 of course alignment is alignment is alignment. 19’s are better aligned from factory (check all the forums) thus this is a non-issue on 19’s :)
@@TankTopLawyer it’s not better, it’s less aggressive and it’s not because of the wheel size, it’s because more toe in creates high speed stability and since the Performance is considerably faster than the LR it is aligned accordingly. You saying you only run 19s to fix the issue doesn’t actually fix anything because the alignment hasn’t changed
@@paulvina1974Uh, you are completely wrong on the Performance being faster than the LR. It has been EASILY confirmed that the LR running 10.6@129mph in the 1/4 mile are numbers the Performance has NEVER matched.
@@ChosenMJ Cite your source. What MYLR has run a 10.6 in the quarter? Motor Trend got 12.4 for the 2020 MYLR and that was .3 faster than the 2023 MYLR’s 12.7. Even with the Speed Boost most LRs are 12.7 or so. There is no evidence ANYWHERE of ANY Model Y Long Range going 10.6. That’s almost as fast as a Model X Plaid. How you can even claim a Model Y LR is faster than the Model Y Perfomance is beyond me.
All this hard work and when one of those pivot/joints wears out and you have to replace a component in 40,000 miles, good luck finding another shop that I can actually make it right.. we have 175,000 miles on our model S 2015 all-wheel-drive, that sucker needs almost every part replaced front and back at this point
I installed the Macsboost shims myself - there are also instructions to adjust the toe by a quarter turn to account for the camber adjustment. Thus far with 13K miles (but swap for winter tires between Dec and Mar) and the wear looks pretty even still.
@i1Tesla You didn't show this on camera however you may have done it. The air suspension is supposed to be cycled from medium to high from outside the car reaching in the window with the doors closed and by putting the brake pedal brace in place. Wait 15 seconds then put it back to medium then wait another 15 seconds then measure the ride height specifications. You also want to go to the alignment shop with no weight in your frunk or anywhere else in the car because the suspension will adjust on the corners with the weight and throw off the alignment machine readings. If the ride height tolerance is off as it was in the video the technician is supposed to repeat the steps and if it is still our of tolerance the ride height must be recalibrated. The steps are in the Tesla service manual and you need Toolbox 3 to complete the recalibration. Once the tolerance is accurate then you put the car in Jack Mode so the car doesn't auto correct during the alignment. These steps are in the Hunter instructions for the Tesla. The excessive inside tire wear issue is common on all wheel sizes and is especially bad on vehicles when the driver lowers the suspension to very low or low and accelerates hard. On 2016 to 2021 models that have the setting to "Never" lower when over a specific speed it should be turned to "Never" because the slight aerodynamic benefit at highway speeds won't save you enough range / electric cost to justify the cost of new tires.
I bought the Macsboost shims to fix the camber issues, going to install them this weekend and then get an alignment done. After 4K miles I can already see the edge of the tires wearing out, which is unacceptable and a complete waste of tires when there’s still so much tread left except on the edges.
I have a 2019 Model 3 with the smallest tires they come with, I think they are 18s. My factory set I only got 30k miles on them but my second set is now at 40K and I still have at least 5k more miles to go if not 10k. Not sure why they are wearing so good but they are. I have only rotated them once too. They are Michelin Pilot Sport tires.
If your having significant wear at only just inner or outer inch or two of the tread then it’s your Toe not the camber . Back when bought the Mitsubishi Evo 9 new , it came with fairly aggressive alignment and toe in . This caused the tire inner 1 inch to wear completely away at little over 10k miles while the rest of the tire was Maybe 70% of life . Next pair of tires I “zero’d” out the toe and set the camber to -2.0* front and -1.5* rear for street setup.Tires lasted many years / mileage while fairly even wear . Just remember if only small inch or two section is wearing away like that , it’s the toe not really the camber . The camber can effect wear but very little to notice for only negative 1-2* and never concentrated in such small area of the tire like that. Some toe in might be good for stability in racing . But road cars I don’t think you need it .
They absolutely do. My rear MYP tires just finally wore out after 33k miles. Had the stock tires on them. Wear was horrible on the inside. I’m going to have tires replaced and then I’m going to have the wheels aligned this weekend.
Interesting technique as BMW also runs lots of negative camber for better handling, but of course it increases tire wear. I'm wondering if this type of shim exists for the Model 3, but for the opposite (more negative camber)? Model 3's actually can't get that aggressive negative camber for autocrossing without lowering the car or installing coilovers.
Older model S/X had a different control arm on the back. you can purchase adjustable camber and control arms for these cars. A good brand for that is «N2itive»
Tires are a huge expense and a high carbon intensity (“CI”) item… now that the drivetrain and brakes are very low CI, makes sense to focus on tires next. Spend the money on a perfect alignment may save you the money on early tire replacement, employee these specialists in their craft, and reduce crap to the landfill.
Can you also talk about the increase and tire purchases because of the car being so heavy? I have a model three since 2018 and the issue that I came across was that I end up buying tires and ended up burning through them at 20,000 miles.
Its some of the tire pressure and also regen. The rear tires do most of the work when we take off fast and do almost all the work in regen. So they take a beating. If you drive in Chill mode Im sure they will last longer. Also the larger rims and skinny tires wear faster
It’s VERY disconcerting that an alignment tech would spread such blatantly incorrect information. 2° of negative camber is not a big deal at all. Your fronts has less than 1° of negative camber, which is fine. The front TOE is WAY too high, especially on a car that relies so heavily on alignment to help with range. That’s a toe spec that’s great for high speed stability but terribly for range and tire wear. Even I the rear, the camber isn’t bad. The toe on the right rear, where you had all that wear is WAY out as well. He also doesn’t know that adjusting camber or toe will affect the other. There isn’t “a chance” adjusting toe will change the camber, it will absolutely change the camber. Just like adjusting the camber changed the toe. He seems like a nice guy and he wants to make his customers happy, but not being able to rear tire wear to adjust the correct thing and not knowing how the adjustments affect each other would bother me a great deal. This is why I MUCH prefer to use race shops that built actual race cars. They have a far better understanding of what they’re doing and are more likely to really get your alignment spot on, even if they do charge 2-3 times more
Help me understand, a decent alignment will cost about $190, so you’re saying I should find a race shop to do it for me for $600+? That seems excessive, I can just have the team doing it for $200 change the toe in the settings in the Hunter machine from competitive to daily. My car was done with the machine set to track mode, and it does have a more aggressive stance and the Hunter machine print out even tells you that you will have increased tire wear.
@ who said it was $600? I paid $220 at that race shop. It’s machine that’s the issue, it’s the skill of the person using it. A perfect example is this video where the tech didn’t know that toe and camber affect each other
OEM alignment specifications are established and measured with the full weight of the vehicle on low-tension turnplates, compensating for lateral wheel runout. These steps ensure that tolerances in wheel bearings, kingpins, and other articulations don’t compromise the accuracy and precision required for a diagnostic alignment. Tire sidewall compliance also influences where the static alignment must be set to account for dynamic forces during driving. This is why tire pressure must be set before measurement and why different tire diameters result in different specifications for the same vehicle. Manufacturers provide a specification with a tolerance window because the system being measured behaves more like a block of Jello than a solid object, shifting shape for numerous reasons. While it’s taught that camber changes affect toe but not the reverse, in practice, adjusting camber can slightly alter toe due to the pressure from the tire shoulder taking up slack in suspension bushings and wheel bearings. Race shops often aren’t ideal for street car alignments because their tools and methods, suitable for rigid components like bricks, may not handle the dynamic properties of a Jello-like system effectively.
@@veerod383 that was a lot of words to say the same thing I did but also try to excuse half-assing the work. Either do it right, or don't do it at all.
Performance cars will have negative chamber for better cornering and tires naturally will wear inside faster. Even if you make any adjustments with horseshoes and etc… your tires will wear out fast regardless. 1. Your vehicle required high-performance summer tires. 2. You’re driving an EV (heavier car, instant torque, regen energy and etc..) if you going to go A/S tires, add whatever gimmicks toys to get longer tire life. Why don’t you just get regular ICE or Toyota Camry or Honda Accord those tires last long time. Moral of story: Pay to Play.
This is precisely why I only run 19’s on my ‘23 MSP as this is basically a non-issue. Plus you save $4.5k, get a 50ish mile range bump, thicker tire for better ride and pot-hole durability.
The wheel size makes no difference whatsoever. Alignment is alignment is alignment. If you have, say, 3° of negative camber with a 22” wheel you’ll STILL have 3° of negative with even an 18” wheel
@@paulvina1974 of course alignment is alignment is alignment. 19’s are better aligned from factory (check all the forums) thus this is a non-issue on 19’s :)
@@TankTopLawyer it’s not better, it’s less aggressive and it’s not because of the wheel size, it’s because more toe in creates high speed stability and since the Performance is considerably faster than the LR it is aligned accordingly. You saying you only run 19s to fix the issue doesn’t actually fix anything because the alignment hasn’t changed
@@paulvina1974Uh, you are completely wrong on the Performance being faster than the LR. It has been EASILY confirmed that the LR running 10.6@129mph in the 1/4 mile are numbers the Performance has NEVER matched.
@@ChosenMJ Cite your source. What MYLR has run a 10.6 in the quarter? Motor Trend got 12.4 for the 2020 MYLR and that was .3 faster than the 2023 MYLR’s 12.7. Even with the Speed Boost most LRs are 12.7 or so. There is no evidence ANYWHERE of ANY Model Y Long Range going 10.6. That’s almost as fast as a Model X Plaid. How you can even claim a Model Y LR is faster than the Model Y Perfomance is beyond me.
Once again one of your videos helps with my final decision… “Your are appreciated “- 2Pac voice
Good to know. Thanks for the info on the shop. I’m within 10 miles of there.
Glad to help
@@i1Teslagreetings. What is the location and phone # for that shop please ? Thank you
I have the same problem in the model 3 performance. I bought some cheap Megan racing camber arms and dialed it to 0 degrees of camber. So far so good!
I have same problem. Is this only for rears pretty much?
be careful ppl have reported that the bushings fail but they probably were using it to give camber not fix it.
All this hard work and when one of those pivot/joints wears out and you have to replace a component in 40,000 miles, good luck finding another shop that I can actually make it right.. we have 175,000 miles on our model S 2015 all-wheel-drive, that sucker needs almost every part replaced front and back at this point
I installed the Macsboost shims myself - there are also instructions to adjust the toe by a quarter turn to account for the camber adjustment. Thus far with 13K miles (but swap for winter tires between Dec and Mar) and the wear looks pretty even still.
Love the color of your Model X! 👍🏾
Thank you!
How much was install parts with alignment?
Your tech could play a Michael Keaton double lmao.
I'd be curious to see how the various ride heights of the Cybertruck affect the camber
@i1Tesla You didn't show this on camera however you may have done it. The air suspension is supposed to be cycled from medium to high from outside the car reaching in the window with the doors closed and by putting the brake pedal brace in place. Wait 15 seconds then put it back to medium then wait another 15 seconds then measure the ride height specifications. You also want to go to the alignment shop with no weight in your frunk or anywhere else in the car because the suspension will adjust on the corners with the weight and throw off the alignment machine readings. If the ride height tolerance is off as it was in the video the technician is supposed to repeat the steps and if it is still our of tolerance the ride height must be recalibrated. The steps are in the Tesla service manual and you need Toolbox 3 to complete the recalibration. Once the tolerance is accurate then you put the car in Jack Mode so the car doesn't auto correct during the alignment. These steps are in the Hunter instructions for the Tesla. The excessive inside tire wear issue is common on all wheel sizes and is especially bad on vehicles when the driver lowers the suspension to very low or low and accelerates hard. On 2016 to 2021 models that have the setting to "Never" lower when over a specific speed it should be turned to "Never" because the slight aerodynamic benefit at highway speeds won't save you enough range / electric cost to justify the cost of new tires.
There is no option for never lower anymore. It’s a requirement on 21+.
I bought the Macsboost shims to fix the camber issues, going to install them this weekend and then get an alignment done. After 4K miles I can already see the edge of the tires wearing out, which is unacceptable and a complete waste of tires when there’s still so much tread left except on the edges.
I have a 2019 Model 3 with the smallest tires they come with, I think they are 18s. My factory set I only got 30k miles on them but my second set is now at 40K and I still have at least 5k more miles to go if not 10k. Not sure why they are wearing so good but they are. I have only rotated them once too. They are Michelin Pilot Sport tires.
Anyone have any recommendations for the SF Bay Area? 🤞🏾
Gorgeous color on the Model X!
My 2020 Model 3 LR with the 19 inch wheels was just the same. Did get 70k kilometres (~43k miles) out of the originals though.
That’s crazy!! My stock Michelins wore out at 20
Do you notice any difference in driving or cornering after this change?
If your having significant wear at only just inner or outer inch or two of the tread then it’s your Toe not the camber .
Back when bought the Mitsubishi Evo 9 new , it came with fairly aggressive alignment and toe in . This caused the tire inner 1 inch to wear completely away at little over 10k miles while the rest of the tire was Maybe 70% of life .
Next pair of tires I “zero’d” out the toe and set the camber to -2.0* front and -1.5* rear for street setup.Tires lasted many years / mileage while fairly even wear .
Just remember if only small inch or two section is wearing away like that , it’s the toe not really the camber . The camber can effect wear but very little to notice for only negative 1-2* and never concentrated in such small area of the tire like that.
Some toe in might be good for stability in racing . But road cars I don’t think you need it .
Should I use the silver shims on my model S long range plus I'm showing wear at 10,000 miles????
Great video. I heard of this before. Does the Model 3 & Y performance have this issue as well?
No
They absolutely do. My rear MYP tires just finally wore out after 33k miles. Had the stock tires on them. Wear was horrible on the inside. I’m going to have tires replaced and then I’m going to have the wheels aligned this weekend.
Yeah my MYP chews through tires on the inside it’s bad. Alignment with Tesla inc charlotte is a month out FFS
Interesting technique as BMW also runs lots of negative camber for better handling, but of course it increases tire wear. I'm wondering if this type of shim exists for the Model 3, but for the opposite (more negative camber)? Model 3's actually can't get that aggressive negative camber for autocrossing without lowering the car or installing coilovers.
Not shims but there are camber arms that are more adjustable for 3 and Y
Do you recommend the shims over an aftermarket camber arm?
Odd there isn't any factory adjustable camber on the rear when it is such a high end vehicle, I have it on my 2010 Pajero.
You mentioned on a scale of 1 to 10 its a 2. Im gonna try it in my driveway. Please share the link for the kit and share a video if installation.
What shop do you recommend in Miami Florida?
I clicked the link for the shims, it shows it’s for 2021+ S/X; anyone know if these work with an older model S/X?
Older model S/X had a different control arm on the back. you can purchase adjustable camber and control arms for these cars. A good brand for that is «N2itive»
No shims do not go on classic S
Tires are a huge expense and a high carbon intensity (“CI”) item… now that the drivetrain and brakes are very low CI, makes sense to focus on tires next. Spend the money on a perfect alignment may save you the money on early tire replacement, employee these specialists in their craft, and reduce crap to the landfill.
Do you know any shops in the greater Tampa Bay area that can do this?
Did you find a place in TB to install these?
What is this wrap color called?
Any info for a 15 model s p85?
Would you repeat the town and state
Any places like this in Illinois?
Or central - coastal Texas?
Do they make these for the Model Y? Got mine aligned yesterday and I'm negative 1.8 in the rear.
Not shims but there are camber arms that are more adjustable for 3 and Y
@@i1Tesla right. I thought this might be a cheaper alternative.
What are the thicknesses of the shims?
.5 to 1.0 degree is probably sufficient. I wouldn't go to zero though.
Thank you for your hard work. I'd like to get your invention.
Can you recommend someone to install these in The San Francisco Bay Area?
lol i have that same wrap, coming here for the same issues
are these parts all you need to fix this issue?
Can't find link?
Why don’t shops like this just have a box of shims already?
Why not rotate left to right and dismount tires
I wonder the same
Can anyone tell me, who besides Tesla can align my 2021 model y and?
Any discount codes?
I have a 2017 model x and I'm having the same issue, can I use these shims on it or is there another way to fix the older models camber???
Can you also talk about the increase and tire purchases because of the car being so heavy? I have a model three since 2018 and the issue that I came across was that I end up buying tires and ended up burning through them at 20,000 miles.
Its some of the tire pressure and also regen. The rear tires do most of the work when we take off fast and do almost all the work in regen. So they take a beating. If you drive in Chill mode Im sure they will last longer. Also the larger rims and skinny tires wear faster
toe settings eats tyre shoulders MUCH MORE than that little amount of camber
My S with only 8k miles is already bald on the edges. It’s ridiculous tbh
It’s VERY disconcerting that an alignment tech would spread such blatantly incorrect information. 2° of negative camber is not a big deal at all. Your fronts has less than 1° of negative camber, which is fine. The front TOE is WAY too high, especially on a car that relies so heavily on alignment to help with range. That’s a toe spec that’s great for high speed stability but terribly for range and tire wear. Even I the rear, the camber isn’t bad. The toe on the right rear, where you had all that wear is WAY out as well. He also doesn’t know that adjusting camber or toe will affect the other. There isn’t “a chance” adjusting toe will change the camber, it will absolutely change the camber. Just like adjusting the camber changed the toe. He seems like a nice guy and he wants to make his customers happy, but not being able to rear tire wear to adjust the correct thing and not knowing how the adjustments affect each other would bother me a great deal. This is why I MUCH prefer to use race shops that built actual race cars. They have a far better understanding of what they’re doing and are more likely to really get your alignment spot on, even if they do charge 2-3 times more
Help me understand, a decent alignment will cost about $190, so you’re saying I should find a race shop to do it for me for $600+? That seems excessive, I can just have the team doing it for $200 change the toe in the settings in the Hunter machine from competitive to daily. My car was done with the machine set to track mode, and it does have a more aggressive stance and the Hunter machine print out even tells you that you will have increased tire wear.
@ who said it was $600? I paid $220 at that race shop. It’s machine that’s the issue, it’s the skill of the person using it. A perfect example is this video where the tech didn’t know that toe and camber affect each other
OEM alignment specifications are established and measured with the full weight of the vehicle on low-tension turnplates, compensating for lateral wheel runout. These steps ensure that tolerances in wheel bearings, kingpins, and other articulations don’t compromise the accuracy and precision required for a diagnostic alignment.
Tire sidewall compliance also influences where the static alignment must be set to account for dynamic forces during driving. This is why tire pressure must be set before measurement and why different tire diameters result in different specifications for the same vehicle. Manufacturers provide a specification with a tolerance window because the system being measured behaves more like a block of Jello than a solid object, shifting shape for numerous reasons.
While it’s taught that camber changes affect toe but not the reverse, in practice, adjusting camber can slightly alter toe due to the pressure from the tire shoulder taking up slack in suspension bushings and wheel bearings.
Race shops often aren’t ideal for street car alignments because their tools and methods, suitable for rigid components like bricks, may not handle the dynamic properties of a Jello-like system effectively.
@@veerod383 that was a lot of words to say the same thing I did but also try to excuse half-assing the work. Either do it right, or don't do it at all.
@@paulvina1974 I give credit to where credit is due but I believe your characterization of the quality of the work is harsh and uncalled for.
Model y does it to
just rotate off the rim. remove, swap tires with rims, and rebalance. cost me about $60-70
I don’t get it. Your toes are off. That’s the main wear for uneven tires
Found it Sorry...... ;
Performance cars will have negative chamber for better cornering and tires naturally will wear inside faster. Even if you make any adjustments with horseshoes and etc… your tires will wear out fast regardless. 1. Your vehicle required high-performance summer tires. 2. You’re driving an EV (heavier car, instant torque, regen energy and etc..) if you going to go A/S tires, add whatever gimmicks toys to get longer tire life. Why don’t you just get regular ICE or Toyota Camry or Honda Accord those tires last long time. Moral of story: Pay to Play.
You are off of the point here.
they literally tout the low maintenance costs and the tires are a huge expense
My S with only 8k miles is already bald on the edges. It’s ridiculous tbh