I will say, the Goo Cocoon is very easy to set up on a cash out if you have a good mobility player on your team. I play light and usually gateway my heavy to cash outs and scout while he sets up. I’ll do the same for him when I play medium by setting up a rotation by using zip lines and jump pqds
Personally I think the biggest problem with the KS-23 is that after you blow up a wall, you usually don't have enough ammo to significantly damage or kill an opponent. While this can be mitigated by shooting a wall twice, reloading and then breaking the wall. It takes a lot longer and gives way too much time for enemies to prepare. How I would fix it? Make more/most walls break in 2 shots instead of 3. Either that or increase the magazine size to 7-8 and increase the reload speed slightly.
Not to mention it's confusing how many shots are required for some walls and structures. In Sys Horizon I find walls that don't have foundations require 4-5 shots to break whereas the common buildings in Monaco or Skyway are ones that can be 3 shot but even then not always.. while rooftops are generally 1-2 shots by comparison. I would go as far as to say they should have way less damage falloff specifically for structural damage at range to throw enemies off from afar -- and a slight rebuff on reducing damage falloff on hitting enemies at range should have reduced damage as well. For the reload I actually think it should always do the same 2-shots-at-a-time rate that it does when it empties for every time they need to reload if they keep the ammo count. Maybe even make the empty reload 3-shots by comparison.
@@autotropicplaybench1819 I think part of the problem is that some parts of the map are double layered if that makes sense. There's a similar problem with the Dematerializer where you have to demat twitch through a wall. In order to realistically fix this problem without fixing every single map would be to change how the KS-23 calculates damage to buildings.
Flamethrower, Lewis, and m60 are all 3.5. GL is 3.1!! The SA216 IS 3!!!!!! Like why couldn’t the ks23 be 4 seconds to reload? Like everything about it to me feels great except the reload. You have to completely take yourself out of a fight just to reload. 5 seconds is way too long to get just 6 measly bullets back when the medium Model 1887 is only 3 seconds. Same mag size same damage output just can’t destroy walls. Like 4-4.25 would be a way better reload time for that shotgun to become a viable weapon to actually use all the time instead just for trolling
Believe 8 bullets in a mag with a slightly faster reload would be the perfect balance and buff for the gun. No need to reduce how many shots to destroy walls or increase the damage output either. Those 2 changes would incredibly make the gun viable enough just to even be useful.
It was better pre "buff" because you could 1 shot melee a light or 1 less shot per class. If they buff it to 110 damage with current rpm, I think it will be a fine off meta gun but currently its more meme.
I disagree with that is a meme gun, but its true that it was way better pre nerf, it was a literall canyon, but bitches didn't stop complaining "its too hard hitting anything with the slow cadency" stfu aim and time your shots, you shouldn't try to hit anything moving after 12 meters anyway I mean is a shotgun and there you have people saying "yeah is almost hit scan up close but further is really hard to predict" no shit sherlok ITS A SHOTGUN in game is suposed to be an up close weapon, now you have faster cadency but a weaker bullet I don't think it was worth it, well at least you can break things faster but still.
I agree! That was my first thought after seeing the patch notes and fully realized it after using it in game. I used it a ton when it first came out even though I could tell it wasn't very good at all but it was satisfying making people mad with it, especially when they greatly underestimated it. Now I don't get much satisfaction unfortunately
the projectile speed was horrendous though.. As well as ROF and accuracy... It wasn't better pre buff except for that exact scenario but then if you think of all other scenarios it wasn't that good... Pre buff, KS23 was worse than throwing knives lmao.
@@arditm2178 Slow but learnable and rewarding to hit. The damage at range was better and the accuracy really wasnt that bad. Obviously it wasnt objectively better but yes it was a more fun rewarding gun. Sorry for imposing my opinion into my comment. lmao.
I've got it up to the white skin so far, have been maining it all season. i get less kills than with the other weapons, but more assists and straight up won cashouts. The utility of dropping any suspended structure at will is insane. I run KS, antigrav, RPG, Dome, Charge & Slam. Charge and slam gives you the extra kill pressure you need against all classes, allowing you to one hit combo lights and mediums and juggle shielding heavies. I have a different playstyle to other heavies, where I don't see the class as the permanent shield gimp bodyguard, but rather the brute enforcer of cashouts.
one thing to note about the ks-23 reloads is that ir reloads two shells at a time from empty, after the intial loading animation, so it's usually faster to shoot the last round in the clip if you want to get up to full ammo. the ks is also great if you have a light that can follow up on 100/200 damage hits.
Throught season 1 I was always using the barricade instead of the domeshield, always found it very underrated and quite good. However this season I realised that by getting good enough with the goo gun you eliminate the need for the barricade. Just put two blobs of goo slightly angled on top of each other - and you got yourself some cover on demand, allbeit a little slower then placing a barricade, but with enough practice the difference is negligible. It even allows for some pretty good headglitching, given the blob's shape. So I swapped the barricade out, and now my loadout is ks23/m60, goo gun, cube, rpg and pyromine. As for the pyromine, I find it very underrated too. It's very useful to get the initial dmg off to alter the ks23 breakpoints specifically, and also being able to burn your own goo when need arises is almost a must in goo gun builds IMO. I'm guessing not many people know, but the pyro mine actually does 70ish impact explosive dmg, so with the burn effect on top I'd say it's very close to the explosive mine damage wise, plus you get area denial utility. Also would like to add that I agree with your takes on the ks23, as of now the weapon feels extremely underwhelming. After the "buffs" I'd say it got even worse in some cases, since 60 dmg at 20 meters is just brutal, even when you hit your shots medium range I feel like there's just not enough reward. Plus, with the added fire rate and pump speed - now you spend even more time reloading then pre buffs. Going M60 after a couple of games with ks23 honestly feels like cheating, the weapon seems like a hindrance on my performance more then anything right now. Really hope it gets some love, since it's a hard and interesting weapon to use with a pretty high skill ceeling, however in it's current state this ceeling sadly isn't worth reaching.
Don't really play tournament mode so my opinion might be a little invalid but on Vegas specifically I actually really enjoy running KS-23 with explosive mines, RPG, barricade, and Charge. I find that since Vegas is mostly indoors and filled with so many little corners to sit in that the barricades alone provide enough cover to allow for a "the best defense is a good offense" style of heavy with loads of destructive capabilities if that makes sense ?
I don't understand why it deals less damage at range. As a projectile based weapon, they game should reward players hitting long range shots with this weapon instead of forcing you to play close range (20m max). I personally love the feel of shooting all of the new weapons but they're just a detriment to use compared to even the "mid tier" weapons in the game. At this point just buff them to oblivion so we have an actual meta shift in the game 😭
I enjoy playing mesh shield for team pushes, as my team's guns usually provide more value at range and I prioritize protecting them, then explosive or pyro mines for defense, and then barricades for further protection (rpg is a given here)
I think there's an easy fix for the KS-23 Rework the gun completely to shoot like normal shotgun ,same with SA1216..But made the right click load in The Slug shell since the ADS for it is just zooming in...im fine without ADS
I never thought they would be able to make a worse weapon than the revolver. Both are precision weapons where the damage falloff starts way too soon and is way too aggressive.
Game mode idea: moba style game, enemy base has a "core" that need to be destroyed using quick melee but before you can do that you need to destroy "turrets" only using quick melee scattered around the map.
It's just such a meme gun. As is the case with so much in this game, its not what it provides, but what it gives up, and it gives up having the lewis gun or the best shotgun in the game.
Not only good info, but amazing clips too. As always here. Thanks for uploading! 🏆💯 Hate playing this weapon. Always miss shots with it, sth feels wrong (maybe skill issue but yea.. just doesnt feel good to use at all).
I feel like with the amount of power the KS-23 shotgun has, it should be able to go through shields and hit people on the other side of it - with atleast some damage reduction, maybe 40-60% damage reduction when going through shields to make it balanced? possibly only at certain ranges?
I kinda like that they released the new weapons kinda underpowered but they really need to buff all of the a lot but all of the new weapons are really to play they just don't have the damage to back them I've only really been trying to use the FAMAS on me medium but recently switched back to the FCAR because it out preforms the FAMAS just about in all categories which realy sucks.
Yeah, I get what Embark wanted to go for by not releasing a weapon on a hot state, but it's 3 weapons that are outclassed in multiple aspects by existing weapons for all the classes they respectively belong to. At the very least one or two of them needed to be very strong and they could've just nerfed them later down the line if players really complained too much given they are open to feedback and patches.
increase damage from 100 to 120 increase fall off range start from 18 to 23 i think if they give this a shot the gun will be viable in comp play instead of seeing heavy’s only run m60 and lewis also maybe increase reload speed or increase mag size from 6 to 8
@@shusakudake uhhhh i dont atm no, next weapon stat vid will as me and a community member did a lot of testing to find the values, the ks23 was just given to us
Very polite of the opposing teams to give you 10 minutes to make that cocoon.
I will say, the Goo Cocoon is very easy to set up on a cash out if you have a good mobility player on your team. I play light and usually gateway my heavy to cash outs and scout while he sets up. I’ll do the same for him when I play medium by setting up a rotation by using zip lines and jump pqds
Personally I think the biggest problem with the KS-23 is that after you blow up a wall, you usually don't have enough ammo to significantly damage or kill an opponent. While this can be mitigated by shooting a wall twice, reloading and then breaking the wall. It takes a lot longer and gives way too much time for enemies to prepare.
How I would fix it? Make more/most walls break in 2 shots instead of 3. Either that or increase the magazine size to 7-8 and increase the reload speed slightly.
Not to mention it's confusing how many shots are required for some walls and structures. In Sys Horizon I find walls that don't have foundations require 4-5 shots to break whereas the common buildings in Monaco or Skyway are ones that can be 3 shot but even then not always.. while rooftops are generally 1-2 shots by comparison.
I would go as far as to say they should have way less damage falloff specifically for structural damage at range to throw enemies off from afar -- and a slight rebuff on reducing damage falloff on hitting enemies at range should have reduced damage as well. For the reload I actually think it should always do the same 2-shots-at-a-time rate that it does when it empties for every time they need to reload if they keep the ammo count. Maybe even make the empty reload 3-shots by comparison.
@@autotropicplaybench1819 I think part of the problem is that some parts of the map are double layered if that makes sense. There's a similar problem with the Dematerializer where you have to demat twitch through a wall. In order to realistically fix this problem without fixing every single map would be to change how the KS-23 calculates damage to buildings.
Dude 5 seconds to reload 6 bullets when the grenade launcher reload is faster than the m60 and the Lewis is crazy.
Flamethrower, Lewis, and m60 are all 3.5. GL is 3.1!! The SA216 IS 3!!!!!! Like why couldn’t the ks23 be 4 seconds to reload? Like everything about it to me feels great except the reload. You have to completely take yourself out of a fight just to reload. 5 seconds is way too long to get just 6 measly bullets back when the medium Model 1887 is only 3 seconds. Same mag size same damage output just can’t destroy walls. Like 4-4.25 would be a way better reload time for that shotgun to become a viable weapon to actually use all the time instead just for trolling
Believe 8 bullets in a mag with a slightly faster reload would be the perfect balance and buff for the gun. No need to reduce how many shots to destroy walls or increase the damage output either. Those 2 changes would incredibly make the gun viable enough just to even be useful.
It’s a precision weapon, it should do crit damage.
It was better pre "buff" because you could 1 shot melee a light or 1 less shot per class. If they buff it to 110 damage with current rpm, I think it will be a fine off meta gun but currently its more meme.
I disagree with that is a meme gun, but its true that it was way better pre nerf, it was a literall canyon, but bitches didn't stop complaining "its too hard hitting anything with the slow cadency" stfu aim and time your shots, you shouldn't try to hit anything moving after 12 meters anyway I mean is a shotgun and there you have people saying "yeah is almost hit scan up close but further is really hard to predict" no shit sherlok ITS A SHOTGUN in game is suposed to be an up close weapon, now you have faster cadency but a weaker bullet I don't think it was worth it, well at least you can break things faster but still.
I agree! That was my first thought after seeing the patch notes and fully realized it after using it in game. I used it a ton when it first came out even though I could tell it wasn't very good at all but it was satisfying making people mad with it, especially when they greatly underestimated it. Now I don't get much satisfaction unfortunately
I was never able to get close enough to a light to use that anyway
the projectile speed was horrendous though.. As well as ROF and accuracy... It wasn't better pre buff except for that exact scenario but then if you think of all other scenarios it wasn't that good...
Pre buff, KS23 was worse than throwing knives lmao.
@@arditm2178 Slow but learnable and rewarding to hit. The damage at range was better and the accuracy really wasnt that bad. Obviously it wasnt objectively better but yes it was a more fun rewarding gun. Sorry for imposing my opinion into my comment. lmao.
I've got it up to the white skin so far, have been maining it all season. i get less kills than with the other weapons, but more assists and straight up won cashouts. The utility of dropping any suspended structure at will is insane. I run KS, antigrav, RPG, Dome, Charge & Slam. Charge and slam gives you the extra kill pressure you need against all classes, allowing you to one hit combo lights and mediums and juggle shielding heavies. I have a different playstyle to other heavies, where I don't see the class as the permanent shield gimp bodyguard, but rather the brute enforcer of cashouts.
Smartest heavy I ever heard of thank you for playing with ur brain
This actually makes a ton of sense. Love it
Thanks friend! Hope more people realize that this is the WORST game to be metaslaving in as its so dynamic!
one thing to note about the ks-23 reloads is that ir reloads two shells at a time from empty, after the intial loading animation, so it's usually faster to shoot the last round in the clip if you want to get up to full ammo. the ks is also great if you have a light that can follow up on 100/200 damage hits.
Throught season 1 I was always using the barricade instead of the domeshield, always found it very underrated and quite good. However this season I realised that by getting good enough with the goo gun you eliminate the need for the barricade. Just put two blobs of goo slightly angled on top of each other - and you got yourself some cover on demand, allbeit a little slower then placing a barricade, but with enough practice the difference is negligible. It even allows for some pretty good headglitching, given the blob's shape. So I swapped the barricade out, and now my loadout is ks23/m60, goo gun, cube, rpg and pyromine.
As for the pyromine, I find it very underrated too. It's very useful to get the initial dmg off to alter the ks23 breakpoints specifically, and also being able to burn your own goo when need arises is almost a must in goo gun builds IMO. I'm guessing not many people know, but the pyro mine actually does 70ish impact explosive dmg, so with the burn effect on top I'd say it's very close to the explosive mine damage wise, plus you get area denial utility.
Also would like to add that I agree with your takes on the ks23, as of now the weapon feels extremely underwhelming. After the "buffs" I'd say it got even worse in some cases, since 60 dmg at 20 meters is just brutal, even when you hit your shots medium range I feel like there's just not enough reward. Plus, with the added fire rate and pump speed - now you spend even more time reloading then pre buffs. Going M60 after a couple of games with ks23 honestly feels like cheating, the weapon seems like a hindrance on my performance more then anything right now. Really hope it gets some love, since it's a hard and interesting weapon to use with a pretty high skill ceeling, however in it's current state this ceeling sadly isn't worth reaching.
that goo cage is evil oml
Eh, not really. It’s scary until you use an RPG or use literally any source of fire
love these vids and the statistics u provide, keep it up beast
Don't really play tournament mode so my opinion might be a little invalid but on Vegas specifically I actually really enjoy running KS-23 with explosive mines, RPG, barricade, and Charge.
I find that since Vegas is mostly indoors and filled with so many little corners to sit in that the barricades alone provide enough cover to allow for a "the best defense is a good offense" style of heavy with loads of destructive capabilities if that makes sense ?
Yeah that loadout will definitely destroy maps fast haha
I don't understand why it deals less damage at range. As a projectile based weapon, they game should reward players hitting long range shots with this weapon instead of forcing you to play close range (20m max). I personally love the feel of shooting all of the new weapons but they're just a detriment to use compared to even the "mid tier" weapons in the game. At this point just buff them to oblivion so we have an actual meta shift in the game 😭
based. if the devs can't reach balance - make it unbalanced but at least fun
Increasing damage at range rewards using a much safer playstyle, which isn't what heavy is meant for. That's sniper light's niche
I enjoy playing mesh shield for team pushes, as my team's guns usually provide more value at range and I prioritize protecting them, then explosive or pyro mines for defense, and then barricades for further protection (rpg is a given here)
the cashout cacon was awesome
Holy shit I never thought you could use that much goo in one area lol that cash out was covered for sure
I think there's an easy fix for the KS-23
Rework the gun completely to shoot like normal shotgun ,same with SA1216..But made the right click load in The Slug shell since the ADS for it is just zooming in...im fine without ADS
I never thought they would be able to make a worse weapon than the revolver. Both are precision weapons where the damage falloff starts way too soon and is way too aggressive.
You’re genuinely my favorite finals content creator keep up the good work!
Game mode idea: moba style game, enemy base has a "core" that need to be destroyed using quick melee but before you can do that you need to destroy "turrets" only using quick melee scattered around the map.
It's just such a meme gun. As is the case with so much in this game, its not what it provides, but what it gives up, and it gives up having the lewis gun or the best shotgun in the game.
Not only good info, but amazing clips too. As always here. Thanks for uploading! 🏆💯
Hate playing this weapon. Always miss shots with it, sth feels wrong (maybe skill issue but yea.. just doesnt feel good to use at all).
Could you do a vid about the medium grenade launcher please?
at some point hopefully :p, wanna cover all the new weps first
I feel like with the amount of power the KS-23 shotgun has, it should be able to go through shields and hit people on the other side of it - with atleast some damage reduction, maybe 40-60% damage reduction when going through shields to make it balanced? possibly only at certain ranges?
I kinda like that they released the new weapons kinda underpowered but they really need to buff all of the a lot but all of the new weapons are really to play they just don't have the damage to back them I've only really been trying to use the FAMAS on me medium but recently switched back to the FCAR because it out preforms the FAMAS just about in all categories which realy sucks.
Yeah, I get what Embark wanted to go for by not releasing a weapon on a hot state, but it's 3 weapons that are outclassed in multiple aspects by existing weapons for all the classes they respectively belong to. At the very least one or two of them needed to be very strong and they could've just nerfed them later down the line if players really complained too much given they are open to feedback and patches.
KS got me to Diamond 4 top scoring every game, you just dont need to miss your shots.
hey bro. question. at 6:02 why dont u put goo on the ceiling before u drop the gravity nade? will the gravity nade mess the goo up?
i want the goo to last as long as i can make it so placing it later is good
increase damage from 100 to 120
increase fall off range start from 18 to 23
i think if they give this a shot the gun will be viable in comp play instead of seeing heavy’s only run m60 and lewis
also maybe increase reload speed or increase mag size from 6 to 8
hey could you show us how to do the barricade tech? I noticed you place it down really quickly
Ill try to make a short about it soonsies, have a lot in the pipeline but i gotchu
Riot shield next? Would like to know your thoughts. I’m loving your vids
maybe :)
This gun is a have fun gun. Not a have win gun.
where did you get your stats from the weapons? i would be interested
The patch notes
@@Appoh do you have alink for me cant see the rpm
@@shusakudake uhhhh i dont atm no, next weapon stat vid will as me and a community member did a lot of testing to find the values, the ks23 was just given to us
i mastered it pre so called "buff" it was actually a viable option now its yucky
Test comment, hello ppl
This is a cool weapon, but it can't be the meta because it has its gimmic which makes it weaker.
Yo-yo-yo like 1:34 - when you showing start > it's better to show everything in one time
lol nothing happened we just sat there till it was cashed out, so i didnt feel like showing us sitting afk for a minute
@@Appoh oh, shoot, my bad - I mean *stats >>> comparison weapon stats))
@@whitewhalo ah, gotcha