British First Issue 90 Pattern PLCE - Part IV
Вставка
- Опубліковано 15 лют 2023
- Fourth and final part in the series looking at the first issued version of the British 90 Pattern Personal Load Carrying Equipment.
Patreon - / riflemanmoore
Paypal - www.paypal.me/riflemanmoore
Facebook - / riflemanmoore
Instagram - / riflemanmoore
Twitter - / rifleman_moore
Email - riflemanmoore@yahoo.com
a few points;
-- 5'10 and over was meant to be longback, below 5'10 a short back,
in reality, this was mostly ignored (my unit everybody got a long back)
-- berghaus made the first ones, they were slightly smaller and the zips on the side pouches were inverted, dont know if they were trials or general issue (production dates were 1988/89)
-- the bergen is designed to work in conjunction with the plce webbing, and sit on the shelf at the back of the webbing, thus spreading some of the weight to the webbing yoke
-- when heavily loaded and used without webbing the shoulder straps can become very painful and cut off circulation to the hands, so while good packs they lacked on comfort.
-- with the side pouches removed the bergen can be compressed by zipping up the sides to form a smaller patrol pack, although i've never seen it used as such, mostly the side pouches were used instead.
-- both packs are 120L ... 100 main, 20L rocket pouches ... the first berghaus ones i think were 75L
-- inside lid pouch was the radio pouch
Nice
Being Sappers in BAOR we got issued the stupid "handbag" packs - ok when in our 432's but useless when we did dismounted exercises (winter walkies etc).
Our PLCE was DPM and most of us carried on using our own bergans with the "suitcase" version replacing our sausage bags if we were deploying to supplement our holdalls.
Odd for me in 1990'ish in 35 Engr Regt in Hameln (I was on course in UK) we got issued DPM PLCE with suitcase bergan - yet when I got to 36 Engr Regt in Maidstone in late 1994 I was issued plain green PLCE with proper bergans (We were used as part of the Spearhead units) - although there was a shortage of PLCE so I had to cobble together a mix of green PLCE yoke, ammo pouches and belt from my new unit and DPM PLCE entrenching tool holder for my waterbottle, 58 pattern kidney pouches, 2 x bum role with old poncho/bashan kit and NBC IPE and a couple of kicking straps with issued bungees (acquired while in 35 Engr) DPM S10 respirator pouch and my own old green Berghaus Roc bergan (12 years hard use and suffering).
To line/waterproof the bargain I used an old CVRT crew shelter bag with kit individually bagged and taped, them in bin sacks (I used three, one for doss bag in bivie bag, one for spare combats, one for warm kit and undie/sock packs).
Never got full DPM PLCE with issued bergan and rocket pouches until late 1995 when posted to ARRC Sp Bn and heading to Sarejevo for a year.
Even then I still used my 58 pattern bum rolls, waterbottle pouches and kidney pouches (usually just one half) at times untill I got out in 2007.
from experience you got what you got , I was in RECCE and we all got long backs even the short ar5es which ended up pushing your webbing down over your ar5se !
As much as I wish to be positive Simon I feel that this point is so fundamental I can't ignore it.
The Rucksack demonstrated is NOT a first issue item - despite the 1989 date.
In order to make use of the available 1988/89 budget the MOD decided to go ahead with ordering manufacture of 22,500 PLCE Rucksacks in the late trial design pattern. These were produced and in stores at COD Bicester by August 1989. This was above the total of such rucksacks produced for the troop trials. The differences with the 'trial' first issue design and the later issued version include:
* There were no PALS straps on the first issue rucksack.
* The frame was made removable on the later issues.
* There was improved shoulder padding on the later issues.
This explains why there is a large number of late 'trials' pattern rucksacks which are to be found today.
There were eleven regular battalions issued with PLCE 90 in the initial issue starting in late 1989, hence there were more than enough of the 'trials' design rucksacks available for this initial issue.
Many thank for the information, not something I was aware of, I shall have to keep an eye out for one of these! Was the late production of the trials rucksack patterned as part of the 90 Pattern at the time?
@@RiflemanMoore Good question and I am going suggest the answer is yes. PLCE 90 (Inf) was accepted for service in February 1989. At the acceptance meeting there were a number of changes to various items agreed e.g. those to the rucksack, the T bar pouch fittings instead of 'C' hooks and the universal yoke fitting for ammo pouches etc. As your prior videos correctly suggest, PLCE 90 first issues occurred in the absence of the future changes. Just as did the initial issue of the early design rucksack.
@@badgertheskinnycow Very interesting indeed, thank you.
A comparison of the different types of Bergans/Backpacks would be interesting to see, both in early Green, later Green and DPM.
Prior to be issued my PLCE kit I used a privately purchased DPM Berghaus Bergen that was fantastic. I was really impressed with the PLCE Bergen and always opted for a short back they just seemed to fit better and I swear I could get more in it! I always shortened the top lid fastening strap’s through the loops you mentioned. That way you could compact the Bergen down. I am pretty sure that those early OG bergens also had QR buckles on the shoulder straps but I know that the DPM variant definitely did.
That’s what I remember you got what was on the top of the pile. Unless you were one of the smallest lads then the csgt took some notice and gave you a short back. To be honest at 6ft 1, I think then I preferred the short back.
I liked it except for one thing the lack of good padding in the shoulders. Also the Bergen liners came out much later, never had them in the early 90’s. So “possibly” when 95 ptn came out, don’t know.
Good to know on both points, thank you. The liners are certainly mentioned and illustrated in the mid-'90s fitting instructions, it seems the NATO stock numbers for them were created in 1992, not that that means they were in production at that point of course! I'll have to mention them in more detail when looking at the later issues of PLCE.
First thing i brought back after my first 6 weeks in recruit training depot 1986 was a Millets Berghaus Cyclops DPM Berrgan with detachable side pouches. £80.00 back then . Everyone was WTF is that and still had 58 large pack giant sponge. next leave every one was rocking up with carrimore DPM, CIV DIV back packs & Berghuas cyclops. The PLCE bergen is based off the Cyclops . That Cyclops lasted me from 1986 to 2015 until it got nicked. PLCE came out after I left and them bergans are built like tanks. Nothing to change or replicate in my eyes.
I own one the same as this. Thanks for pointing out all the functions.
I’m a serving sapper, I’m 5ft 6’ and I was issued a long Bergen 🤷♂️
The main straps can be looped back through the webb ladders that run down either side of the small pouch to reduce the height of bergen when not fully packed out.
Great series of videos I've realy enjoyed these many thanks for making them. If you have a video on trials PLCE webbing could you post the link please.
5'11 and I got the short backin OD. I've still got it and the fabric has gone quite brittle in places. The 'fixed pocket' on the front is the messing pouch.
These Bergens were built to last, but uncomfortable to some!
Could have only dream of this in my time. We used German Army Bergen's, when unit allowed. Only shoulder straps I think but would sit on kidney pouches and easy to dump, which you couldn't with Large Pack.Unit SOP were largely ignored by all as it included pumps and pt kit.!!
I always preferred the OD green version of PLCE. Was a shame they never issued a dessie version.
The really early ones had detachable hip belts,they never really worked all that well with the webbing, unless you were built like the proverbial brick sh...thouse.they were a massive improvement on the 58 pack,tho, preferred the Alice medium pack myself.
Great video as always Simon. I remember being impressed by this kit although by then, I'd already purchased a green Berghaus Crusader bergen with zip on side pouches which is basically the same design (I still have it - since 1987). The biggest differences were that the issue version had the extra pocket on the front, heavier duty zips plus the various attachment points that you pointed out. The Berghaus zips were not compatible with the zips on the issue version - the issue versions were chunkier and were upside down as well. I always wondered if Berghaus were ever compensated for their design being ripped off.... anyone know? I seem to remember several ideas about how to attach sleeping mats: attached to the top (across the top pocket) gave a massive silhouette, put under the flap was more popular although the winning version was probably to have it bungeed on vertically - up and down between the front pocket and a side pocket.
interesting view on the sleeping mat. I use a DPM version of one of these rucks for my own personal use and thought to put the mat under the flap. next time i use it, i'll have to try strapping it vertically the the outside. thanks.
Berghaus actually ripped off the design of the removable side pockets from Arktis, who had a rather crap rucksack in the early 1980’s.. but it did have the rather novel zip off pockets, and was one of the first thing David Ross designed when he started the company. Apparently he went to some meeting with the MOD with Berghaus, Karrimor and other present, before the Falklands war so circa 1980 and Berghaus developed the crusader pack from their civilian Cyclops Roc and added the zip pocket and made the whole thing in green.. the rest is history
@@lolzman228 No problem. Sticking the mat under the flap can open the sack up to snow or rain being driven into it by wind so there's a good reason to avoid it if you can. If you attach the mat vertically with the bottom of the rolled mat level with the bottom of the bergen, the sack stands up by itself. Royal Marines always seemed to use this technique with their PLCE bergens (with the mat rolled up inside a sandbag).
@@mikefaulkner3163 Nice info there, Mike. I didn't know that Arktis went back that far. I avoided the Roc and went for the classic Munro 35 and Crusader combo.... still have both of them although the Munro looks very tired (like its owner!).
Thanks for the advice, I'll have to put it to use
In the Reserves, its just kind of luck which you got, and just swapping around with the shorter or taller lads
Question. How well does it work with the large amount of belt kit?
As far as I understand and experienced this rucksack is supposed to be carried up on the back, just above the PLCE pouches
These were allowed in some units in Australia making their way here from guys on secondment. The long back on a 6 foot 4 guy didn't work too well. Short back worked fine it "rode on our webbing. That being said we has US style butt bum packs wider than UK webbing. Sweet kit until all our Auscam cam out then green had to go. I use a shortcake with belt kit hiking in summer it rides pretty well on aftermarket green Molle UK water bottle pouches. The key pack water and weight in belt keep the pack light. Long back in winter no belt kit. Get hold of 2 extra side pouches old sleep mat and make up extra sleeves that you can secure on with the load lift straps. Put some thought into the design and you'll get a good colour natch that blends to the pack carefully and is 50% wider strap for extra weight carry. Mack Tightwad has a vid on basic straps. Be a bit more creative buy extra 25mm strap you will get it to sit perfectly. Make your first version out of old sheets try them on and you'll find the sweet spot to add a chest strap on to your sleeves and see how with a Velcro flap to allow strap adjustment buckle through, a longer shoulder strap for added comfort
Ex infantry had a LB back in the day. Couldn't get away with the SB as I found the waist belt came nearly to my chest. Saying that I have both for wild camping but only use the LB. You didn't mention the yoke for the day packs using one or both "rocket pouches." Think I've e a spare set of OD and DPM somewhere.
Many thanks for the insights, if you watch part III of this series I cover the side pouch yoke system.
@@RiflemanMoore Forgot you said there was a part 2
@@RiflemanMoore you at no point mention the yoke for the rocket pouches came with the "rucksack"/ bergan in the previous video. all bergans came with the yoke for the pouches. a lot of great comments from ex serviceman about the bergan. which need to be added to your vid. it also came in black and US 3 colour desert. the SB version was preferred by UKSF, para battalions and some infantry as it rode high above the beltkit and was less bulky whilst jumping. i do hope you talk about how there was alot of mods applied to the bergan in later DPM versions particularly pouches being added to the lower front, floating lids which all still continues today with MTP versions.
Be careful with the fittings. The belt clip on mine went brittle, and then snapped and this would be a difficult repair for anyone less than a seamstress/tailor.
first heheh
Issued with this still used SAS bergen until I was retired
Hi, question for anyone in the know, how long were the utility straps shown around 17.26? Can’t ever remember seeing them in surplus for sale. Thanks…💂♂️🪖⛑️🏴🇨🇦
Side pouch idea was useless that's why we used day sacks far better then day sacks began to get bigger and bigger...