It’s refreshing to see two great electricians taking pride in what they do. You can see John’s a grafter. Best of luck getting anywhere near 20 ohms BTW!
I think i mentioned it on another video, i couldn't get an earth rod at or below 20 ohm, so i went for pen fault detection, as i have not seen the hot tub. I don't know if it has any extraneous conductive parts or not, so super safe for me. You have done a cracking job again. The cable craft is Bob on, you have found a use for brick dust. I love it.
I have done a load of hot tubs in last couple of years, when I started I ran it by NAPIT technical and they specified TT on a PME. Below 20ohm😂😂😂. I did one last week with two 5/8ths rod and got a record low of 62ohm. Great content keep it up.
The Swa should be earthed at the supply end otherwise you are relying on the earth electrode in the event of a fault, always break the cpc at the load end not the supply end.
One of my neighbours in a farm in Scotland got tingles from her electric shower via the drain pipe - actual PEN fault on overhead PME system, fixed by the DNO.
It happens occasionally, in 30 years in the industry I have come across it twice, the second time, the cows had chewed the cable going to the DNO spike in the field, only found it because we touched the metal roof and earth at the same time, cows and us were all ok 😂
I don't think this hot tub discussion will ever end its destined to go on for ever I have found its 50/50 over electricians and even nic inspectors are 50/50 some will say earth rod some will say export the pme hot tubs are double insulated you won't find conductive metal accessible parts on them exporting the pme and being rcd protected is perfectly exceptable
if you export the pme you need need a 16mm earth lol. easier to put a 5/8 rod in and you will get a 10mm onto the earth rod with a nice pit. the matte is not to be used for hot tub only for car chargers
John Ward has done very good advice on earthling on his channel, including hot tubs. It’s not plain sailing as you need to take into account earth paths to installations in adjacent properties.
If I remember rightly there's around 1000 PME faults reported per year and severe injury or death in around 1% of those cases so 10 people. It would be worth putting the hot tub on TT with a low mA rcbo and/or pen fault detection, the option is of course yours as you have the manufacturers instructions to hand. Just remember it's a special location so safety first and still subject to the 3m socket guidance not that anyone ever seems to take notice.
Hot tub has a water heater and a water pump, so electricity in close contact with water where humans are supposed to be bathing in. I think that would class as something that deserves the highest amount of protection.
Typically hot tubs are heated purely with the heat from the pump and don't actually contain a water heater. They're also typically made of fibreglass with plastic pipes and tubes, so it's limited how much of the tub can be electrified in case of a fault. It still needs to earthed properly, obviously, as mixing water and electricity is never good, but it's worth keeping in mind that a properly made hot tub already has lots of safety built in, and the manufacturer should state exactly how it must be hooked up to be safe.
Why not have both a PME and a TT? Why cant you add a rod/rods into the existing earthing? If PME goes faulty there's still the TT backup already connected? I don't recall anything saying this can't be done? In that video you could potentially have 3 earth rods, basically making your own PME system.
That's how I read it when I put mine in. Regulation 702.410.3.4.3 therefore recommends: ‘Where a PME earthing facility is used as the means of earthing for the electrical installation of a swimming pool or other basin, it is recommended that an earth mat or earth electrode of suitably low resistance, e.g. 20 ohms or less, be installed and connected to the supplementary protective equipotential bonding’.
@@davew6605 We normally always add a rod local to the tub inconjunction with with pme earth as like a back up incase a pen fault (or so that’s how we see it) however as i mentioned the rod should be below 20ohms but in what reality is that ever a thing? I’d say the majority of tub points i come across installed by other electricians are 90% pme with no rods at all.
What I have found is most hot tub requires a type A rcd, but it is very often over looked. I always TT a hot tub when on a TN-C-S I also install a double pole MCB as well.
Just a question do you bother running a flylead from the banjo or not bother as the banjo is in contact with the metal of the Consumer unit? Just a question I’ve always wondered?
I’ve seen some people say that the inner layer of the SWA not actually considered insulation, just a bedding compound. Not really looked in to it myself but if it is true that’d technically mean you’re running singles through a wall even though you’re not? Confusing concept
@@MrToontownforever maybe so, but you could quite easily oversleeve the bedding with 16mm insulation which would provide double insulation without the extra joint.
@@r3co0 Our company tends to sleeve the bedding and cores going through the wall with 20mm conduit but regardless one end or the other the armor ring needs earthing and standard practice would be to earth it at the supply. Hence either changing the cable over and jointing in the Wiska box or running a single earth through something like Conduit to the swa gland.
The SWA should be earthed at the house end. And separated at the garage end, most often by taking it through a plastic adaptable box before it enters the garage unit. If you don’t do it your way, you reply on the earth rod to achieve disconnection in any event when there is a fault between Live and SWA. Earth rods have a high resistance. And are unstable. Using the earth rod to earth the SWA may not achieve enough fault current to operate the circuit protection device at the house end in fault conditions. I’d nip back and change this ASAP mate. * unless of course, the SWA is protected by an RCD?
Grab yourself a earth leakage CT clamp and clamp the tails before board change....this will tell you if you have above 30ma of leakage and which circuit etc .....
A hot topic from watching some of your videos is the issue of having to pull the main fuse in order to isolate. I work on one of the contracts for a big supplier and generally DNO responsibility ends at cutout, they wouldn’t fit an isolator. Even on new supply’s as they’ll just install cutout, bung, seal and leave. If electrical work needs to be carried out the customer can contact the supplier, as supplier operatives can remove fuse and re seal. Generally across the board most suppliers will have all operatives carrying 2 poles as its common ground getting VIR, undersized cables on installations etc where safe isolation is necessary. Getting a supplier out before you guys get to site is always a ballache due to time and practicality on schedules.
The regs do state follow the manufactures instructions when applicable. All the hot tubs I’ve fitted are Class 2 regardless if you take the panel of the side and expose any metalwork. At the end of the day if you’re taking the side panel off you need a tool to get inside it which makes it an enclosure that should only be accessed by a competent person therefore not an exposed conductive part.
I am not sure they are that quick, you still have to drill a hole, and a battery driver is quick at putting screws in, plus they are expensive, and does an outside cable warrant metal fixings, is someone likely to get tangled in that.
Hi guys. I am in the process of installing a garden supply for a customer. I’ve gone with a condudisc. It cost a fortune but after I described it to the customer. They jumped at it. Next door I installed a garden room supply and ended up using 5 rods! Ended up with 179 ohms. I’m hoping the disc gives a far better reading. I’ve been quoted 44 ohms. So we’ll see 🤞
What difference are hot tubs and EV chargers from say metal bollard lighting in outdoor gardens etc though? And they don’t need TT’ing , same for outdoor sockets etc ?
@@ice-cp2vz what you’re nude when getting into your car? Also you are sometimes barefoot and topless in garden so to me I can’t see the difference between my examples
A lot of detached buildings don't either but you need to remember, electricians are like sheep, they just copy what they see, without knowing the reasons why. Ask a lot of them why we bond services, a lot can't tell you the reason why, they just do it because they know it needs to be done and will do it when it isn't required.
Eeeeek! When doing any boxes that are exposed to water or rain, I never do anything but bottom entry with glands. Also, drip loops are a great idea. Side entry even with silicon and putty will eventually leak. Top entry is a disaster.
For hot tub if inside then same as bathroom, if outside same as po or basin. That's what me Nic inspector said. Also earthing isn't an issue as hot tubs are double insulated Take the pme earth to the garage DB but terminate into a insulated adaptable box, thus finishing the pme earth then create TT from garage DB.
I would install a supportive earth electrode and connect it to the earthing system of the house, protect the tub circuit with a 10mA type A RCD. Here in Germany every house built after 1980 has an earth electrode, usually a foundation earth electrode or a soil embedded ring earth electrode. No matter if TT or TN-C-S. The VDE still states in our regs to install 30mA type A RCDs, but since 2013 it's recommended to install 10mA for bathroom circuits (and only for them to prevent nuisance tripping). And since this is some kind of bathroom stuff I think that's a good idea. The thing is, in no other environment people are as vulnerable as there. Naked and wet. The 30mA threshold is for healthy adults, elderly people, people with heart issues and children are much more vulnerable to an electric shock. The only exception would be, when the hot tub is a three-phase one with 11kW. Then you can't install a 10mA RCD protection because there's no three-phase 10mA RCD available, only single phase ones.
I think it's better in Germany because you use three phase, so even if there is a neutral fault, the voltage goes wrong but electricity has a path back through other appliances and the earth rod helps limit voltage rise. It's the single phase installs where problems come. I've seen an overhead street feed where the neutral broke near the transformer side. The houses further down only complained about low voltage one one phase (179v), the others didn't notice high voltage (280v). No one reported shocks either (Yes TNCS system). The only giveaway was one house had a smart meter that kept disconnecting. This was because it's set to disconnect when voltage out of range (not common in these meters).
@@the_real_hislordship The best thing about three-phase is you can better detect a PEN fault because you got more reference points. The problem is, the voltage is floating freely between 0 and 400V, depending on the appliances connected. It's influenced by the appliances which are connected or disconnected, because when the PEN is broken the appliances are then actually in series between the lines and are acting as a voltage divider.
@@Marcel_Germann oh yes I know this very well. I have three phase (South Africa) and the neutral at the transformer for my area came off in March 2020. Lots of houses had damages within seconds. Phase 1 and 3 went high and phase 2 went low.
@@the_real_hislordship It depends what is connected to the grid in that particular case. And the voltages will change if someone plugs something in or unplugs it, that will have an impact on the voltages. I'll make an easy example. You have an electric heater with a demand of 3680W connected to a single phase circuit supplied by L1, that's a resistance of 14.4 Ohms. On a circuit supplied by L2 you got a soldering iron with a demand of 20W (2645 Ohms). They're both connected via the neutral, when the neutral fails they both are in series between L1 and L2. In that case that means the heater will "see" 2.2V and the soldering iron 397.8V. If you hook up more appliances to these circuits, they're resistances in parallel to the soldering iron and the heater, impacting the voltages the appliances will "see". If that happens on a bigger scale it will float much more because people switching lights on and off, switching TVs on or off, maybe they're cooking with an electric stove, using the microwave oven and such things.
On the hot tub it would be interesting to find out whether you adopt faster tripping and lower current tripping RCDs/RCBOs than standard 30mA for Hot Tubs. Given that in the USA some of our GFCIs trip at 4-5mA in 3-7mS and no normal, transient DC leakage unnecessary tripping. I say this because many UK hot tubs sold come from USA and many are sold within an in-line GFCI. Do you cut that off and put on a SWA for better mechanical protection with a slower tripping RCD. I agree on the earthing as well regarding sticking two rods in.
I notice that the preferred solution for electric vehicles nowadays seems to be pen fault detection devices, I wonder if this will spread to other outdoor supplies.
I am a little surprised that you mention PEN fault but don't mention the ground/earth potential. PME can have a variable voltage (same as neutral) of up to 20V depending on the phase imbalance, and that becomes significant for "wet people" who are very conductive, even down to 1 volt. This PD can result in a large enough current to flow with the, say 10V, earth/water (bonded) potential to kill someone - and this is more likely than a PEN fault.
It's interesting, we are constantly told by the networks not to touch their stuff or put stuff in the meter boxes, yet somewhere along the line we have either been conned into taking responsibility or taken it upon ourselves to take responsibility for their supply. What happens to their supply, is nothing to do with me or the homeowner, and if this system is that dangerous that it needs addition equipment then they should be footing the bill. The networks use pme for one reason, it's the cheapest option. The powers that be, if they had a spine, should be making it quite clear to the networks, they are responsible for their network and don't rely on the electricians to cover their arses because they can't be arsed maintaining their own network.
A T-T earth rod reading of 20 ohms !! In Cornwall your lucky to get a reading under 200 ohms thats if you can get an 4ft rod in more than 2ft...... Anyways ... Always nice work by you guys
🧰🛠️ Tool Of The Day 👇
Wiha Electricians Spirit Level: amzn.to/3hZjLqD
Just curious, do you guys do new houses?
No neck and button fly with another brilliant install.
It’s refreshing to see two great electricians taking pride in what they do. You can see John’s a grafter.
Best of luck getting anywhere near 20 ohms BTW!
I think i mentioned it on another video, i couldn't get an earth rod at or below 20 ohm, so i went for pen fault detection, as i have not seen the hot tub. I don't know if it has any extraneous conductive parts or not, so super safe for me.
You have done a cracking job again. The cable craft is Bob on, you have found a use for brick dust. I love it.
I have done a load of hot tubs in last couple of years, when I started I ran it by NAPIT technical and they specified TT on a PME. Below 20ohm😂😂😂. I did one last week with two 5/8ths rod and got a record low of 62ohm. Great content keep it up.
The Swa should be earthed at the supply end otherwise you are relying on the earth electrode in the event of a fault, always break the cpc at the load end not the supply end.
One of my neighbours in a farm in Scotland got tingles from her electric shower via the drain pipe - actual PEN fault on overhead PME system, fixed by the DNO.
It happens occasionally, in 30 years in the industry I have come across it twice, the second time, the cows had chewed the cable going to the DNO spike in the field, only found it because we touched the metal roof and earth at the same time, cows and us were all ok 😂
Whoever is shooting and editing the videos is doing an amazing job ~ well done 👍🏻
For such a young guy you have a great understanding of what being an electrician actually is, thinking about what you are doing, great job,
I am always staggered by the attention to detail that you guys take. Really make you a cut above the rest in my very humble opinion. :-)
Thanks a lot
I don't think this hot tub discussion will ever end its destined to go on for ever I have found its 50/50 over electricians and even nic inspectors are 50/50 some will say earth rod some will say export the pme hot tubs are double insulated you won't find conductive metal accessible parts on them exporting the pme and being rcd protected is perfectly exceptable
if you export the pme you need need a 16mm earth lol. easier to put a 5/8 rod in and you will get a 10mm onto the earth rod with a nice pit.
the matte is not to be used for hot tub only for car chargers
John Ward has done very good advice on earthling on his channel, including hot tubs. It’s not plain sailing as you need to take into account earth paths to installations in adjacent properties.
Correct. And in built up areas, an earth rod installed to be a TT system, could still end up being PME
Why not just use a CU with PEN fault protection.
@@93lornamae some pen fault protection devices work on a touch voltage of 70v, not 50 or below
If I remember rightly there's around 1000 PME faults reported per year and severe injury or death in around 1% of those cases so 10 people. It would be worth putting the hot tub on TT with a low mA rcbo and/or pen fault detection, the option is of course yours as you have the manufacturers instructions to hand. Just remember it's a special location so safety first and still subject to the 3m socket guidance not that anyone ever seems to take notice.
Hot tub has a water heater and a water pump, so electricity in close contact with water where humans are supposed to be bathing in. I think that would class as something that deserves the highest amount of protection.
What does the 'P' stand for Martin?
@@edglue6138 Paul, it is to differentiate myself professionally from the renowned economist Martin F. Hellwig.
@@MartinPHellwig Haha. I see. 👊
Typically hot tubs are heated purely with the heat from the pump and don't actually contain a water heater. They're also typically made of fibreglass with plastic pipes and tubes, so it's limited how much of the tub can be electrified in case of a fault. It still needs to earthed properly, obviously, as mixing water and electricity is never good, but it's worth keeping in mind that a properly made hot tub already has lots of safety built in, and the manufacturer should state exactly how it must be hooked up to be safe.
Gret job guys, good to see the double act back together 😎
The Artisan Angle Drilling Company at its finest!
Thanks!
Good job Cory and John.
Why not have both a PME and a TT? Why cant you add a rod/rods into the existing earthing? If PME goes faulty there's still the TT backup already connected? I don't recall anything saying this can't be done? In that video you could potentially have 3 earth rods, basically making your own PME system.
That's how I read it when I put mine in.
Regulation 702.410.3.4.3 therefore recommends: ‘Where a PME earthing facility is used as the means of earthing for the electrical installation of a swimming pool or other basin, it is recommended that an earth mat or earth electrode of suitably low resistance, e.g. 20 ohms or less, be installed and connected to the supplementary protective equipotential bonding’.
@@davew6605 We normally always add a rod local to the tub inconjunction with with pme earth as like a back up incase a pen fault (or so that’s how we see it) however as i mentioned the rod should be below 20ohms but in what reality is that ever a thing?
I’d say the majority of tub points i come across installed by other electricians are 90% pme with no rods at all.
11:50 - You should use a brush nozzle so you don’t scratch the surfaces. Great video as always, 👍🏼
Matt:e with O-PEN fault detection. Marketed for EV but in principal can be used for this also.
Spot on thats what i do!
The banter between u n john 👍
Great job team! Thumb up! Cheers!!
Your drilling 8.20 ish John had right technique tongue out perfect.
Hope everyone’s having a fantastic day keep smiling 🙂
*_I'll be honest Cory is great banter and I prefer him being on the camera, keep it up fella! *_**
What I have found is most hot tub requires a type A rcd, but it is very often over looked. I always TT a hot tub when on a TN-C-S I also install a double pole MCB as well.
Just a question do you bother running a flylead from the banjo or not bother as the banjo is in contact with the metal of the Consumer unit? Just a question I’ve always wondered?
Love these vids 🙌🏻 Keep em coming Team Artisan 🔥🔥
Great vid, I use Conducrete on earth rod or disc, usually does the job.
For such a short run, is there any justification for adding another joint, instead of just feeding the SWA cores all the way though?
I’ve seen some people say that the inner layer of the SWA not actually considered insulation, just a bedding compound. Not really looked in to it myself but if it is true that’d technically mean you’re running singles through a wall even though you’re not? Confusing concept
@@MrToontownforever maybe so, but you could quite easily oversleeve the bedding with 16mm insulation which would provide double insulation without the extra joint.
@@r3co0 Our company tends to sleeve the bedding and cores going through the wall with 20mm conduit but regardless one end or the other the armor ring needs earthing and standard practice would be to earth it at the supply. Hence either changing the cable over and jointing in the Wiska box or running a single earth through something like Conduit to the swa gland.
The SWA should be earthed at the house end. And separated at the garage end, most often by taking it through a plastic adaptable box before it enters the garage unit.
If you don’t do it your way, you reply on the earth rod to achieve disconnection in any event when there is a fault between Live and SWA. Earth rods have a high resistance. And are unstable. Using the earth rod to earth the SWA may not achieve enough fault current to operate the circuit protection device at the house end in fault conditions.
I’d nip back and change this ASAP mate.
* unless of course, the SWA is protected by an RCD?
No one does it better than these guys
Johns a top bloke 👍
7:15 which cable clips are you using there? Can't seem to find them here in Belgium. Thanks!
Congrats on 71k, really enjoyed this video. Great video mate keep it up always love the content 👍.
Thanks
Grab yourself a earth leakage CT clamp and clamp the tails before board change....this will tell you if you have above 30ma of leakage and which circuit etc .....
loads and leakages variable so not so easy bud
One of the best electrician
Can just tell john is a grafter 💪🏻
Jordan, a horse run today called, "Jordans Electrics" I lumped on it and it romped home at 4/1.
Yeah that’s the company I work for horse made me some money aswell
@@markrutherford3638 the Wishaw firm? Running at Hamilton?
😂😂😂🤑
@@markrutherford3638 does that eejit Junior still work there?
A hot topic from watching some of your videos is the issue of having to pull the main fuse in order to isolate. I work on one of the contracts for a big supplier and generally DNO responsibility ends at cutout, they wouldn’t fit an isolator. Even on new supply’s as they’ll just install cutout, bung, seal and leave.
If electrical work needs to be carried out the customer can contact the supplier, as supplier operatives can remove fuse and re seal. Generally across the board most suppliers will have all operatives carrying 2 poles as its common ground getting VIR, undersized cables on installations etc where safe isolation is necessary.
Getting a supplier out before you guys get to site is always a ballache due to time and practicality on schedules.
Where the SWA comes through the wall has a sharp radius Regs state radius min for SWA depending on size.
The regs do state follow the manufactures instructions when applicable. All the hot tubs I’ve fitted are Class 2 regardless if you take the panel of the side and expose any metalwork. At the end of the day if you’re taking the side panel off you need a tool to get inside it which makes it an enclosure that should only be accessed by a competent person therefore not an exposed conductive part.
this is good but wheres the next part with the spa connection. .....
8:34 nice amount of armouring outside the waterproof seal
That cabling was sooooo neat. And love the idea of using brick dust - used the sawdust trick but brick dust - genius.
With a TNS System would you stick with the Supply Earth r would you still put a TT System in for the garage
No need for TT on a TNS as the Earth & Neutral are separated throughout. Hence the "S" in TNS.
Thanks again for the great video !
Ohhh Ipswich. Getting closer to home..... :)
Coryyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!!!! 🌱🌱🌱❤️
#Artisanteam #Cory #John great work guys
What are those clips you're hammering the swa into the brick wall with, look like a time saver
linian super clips I believe 👌
Yes that’s right
I am not sure they are that quick, you still have to drill a hole, and a battery driver is quick at putting screws in, plus they are expensive, and does an outside cable warrant metal fixings, is someone likely to get tangled in that.
Hi guys. I am in the process of installing a garden supply for a customer. I’ve gone with a condudisc. It cost a fortune but after I described it to the customer. They jumped at it. Next door I installed a garden room supply and ended up using 5 rods! Ended up with 179 ohms. I’m hoping the disc gives a far better reading. I’ve been quoted 44 ohms. So we’ll see 🤞
Nice vid lads👍
Try Suffolk 🤪
Keep talking it out Cory.
Wich cabel wall plugs are this?
I’m assuming you tried to fish up the pipe boxing to the side of the consumer unit to save having those grim cables up the side of the house
What app do you guys use to calculate your drilling angles?
Tongue in cheek gauge.
what is the name, in english, of that ting they use to fix the cable in te wall?
When will you house bashing guys start using brass nuts and bolts on your banjo's
Good vid. What are those clips you're using for the SWA? Are they the Linian clips? and how secure are they?
Have you ever installed a hot tub in France? Need help. Thx
Great vid 👍🏼 what did you use to connect the swa to the 10mm in the wiska box? Cheers
What difference are hot tubs and EV chargers from say metal bollard lighting in outdoor gardens etc though? And they don’t need TT’ing , same for outdoor sockets etc ?
you get your kit off
@@ice-cp2vz what you’re nude when getting into your car? Also you are sometimes barefoot and topless in garden so to me I can’t see the difference between my examples
You should add an overlay whenever corey goes off on an analogy segment haha
There is a NICEIC webinar on installing hot tubs, most don't need an earth rod. And don't forget no socket within 3 meters
What do you mean no socket within 3 meters? No IP rated socket by a hot tub?
@@ryanrickard2042 Yeah cause no doubt some spacko will try to dry their hair whilst in the hot tub.
@@ryanrickard2042 No socket of any type, like a bathroom
A lot of detached buildings don't either but you need to remember, electricians are like sheep, they just copy what they see, without knowing the reasons why.
Ask a lot of them why we bond services, a lot can't tell you the reason why, they just do it because they know it needs to be done and will do it when it isn't required.
Really, I have seen plugin hot tubs and the lead was less than 3m how does that work then 🤔
Eeeeek!
When doing any boxes that are exposed to water or rain, I never do anything but bottom entry with glands. Also, drip loops are a great idea.
Side entry even with silicon and putty will eventually leak. Top entry is a disaster.
Corey, where do you get the cement in the tube for the brick blows, do they do it in different colours? 🙃😊
I would like more banter and Cory talking, am I alone?
Yes
Remind me what the cement in a tube you use is again? You did say in a previous video but I can't find it any more
It’s from TLC
@@artisanelectrics thanks!
For hot tub if inside then same as bathroom, if outside same as po or basin. That's what me Nic inspector said. Also earthing isn't an issue as hot tubs are double insulated
Take the pme earth to the garage DB but terminate into a insulated adaptable box, thus finishing the pme earth then create TT from garage DB.
great video lads👍🏻
Thx
Brick dust, what a great tip.
Hello bro
what name of caméra you filmed this vedio
I would install a supportive earth electrode and connect it to the earthing system of the house, protect the tub circuit with a 10mA type A RCD. Here in Germany every house built after 1980 has an earth electrode, usually a foundation earth electrode or a soil embedded ring earth electrode. No matter if TT or TN-C-S.
The VDE still states in our regs to install 30mA type A RCDs, but since 2013 it's recommended to install 10mA for bathroom circuits (and only for them to prevent nuisance tripping). And since this is some kind of bathroom stuff I think that's a good idea. The thing is, in no other environment people are as vulnerable as there. Naked and wet. The 30mA threshold is for healthy adults, elderly people, people with heart issues and children are much more vulnerable to an electric shock.
The only exception would be, when the hot tub is a three-phase one with 11kW. Then you can't install a 10mA RCD protection because there's no three-phase 10mA RCD available, only single phase ones.
I think it's better in Germany because you use three phase, so even if there is a neutral fault, the voltage goes wrong but electricity has a path back through other appliances and the earth rod helps limit voltage rise.
It's the single phase installs where problems come.
I've seen an overhead street feed where the neutral broke near the transformer side.
The houses further down only complained about low voltage one one phase (179v), the others didn't notice high voltage (280v).
No one reported shocks either (Yes TNCS system). The only giveaway was one house had a smart meter that kept disconnecting. This was because it's set to disconnect when voltage out of range (not common in these meters).
@@the_real_hislordship The best thing about three-phase is you can better detect a PEN fault because you got more reference points. The problem is, the voltage is floating freely between 0 and 400V, depending on the appliances connected. It's influenced by the appliances which are connected or disconnected, because when the PEN is broken the appliances are then actually in series between the lines and are acting as a voltage divider.
@@Marcel_Germann oh yes I know this very well.
I have three phase (South Africa) and the neutral at the transformer for my area came off in March 2020. Lots of houses had damages within seconds.
Phase 1 and 3 went high and phase 2 went low.
@@Marcel_Germann the current between phases has to balance out, so the voltages are pushed all over. V=IR.
@@the_real_hislordship It depends what is connected to the grid in that particular case. And the voltages will change if someone plugs something in or unplugs it, that will have an impact on the voltages.
I'll make an easy example. You have an electric heater with a demand of 3680W connected to a single phase circuit supplied by L1, that's a resistance of 14.4 Ohms. On a circuit supplied by L2 you got a soldering iron with a demand of 20W (2645 Ohms). They're both connected via the neutral, when the neutral fails they both are in series between L1 and L2. In that case that means the heater will "see" 2.2V and the soldering iron 397.8V. If you hook up more appliances to these circuits, they're resistances in parallel to the soldering iron and the heater, impacting the voltages the appliances will "see".
If that happens on a bigger scale it will float much more because people switching lights on and off, switching TVs on or off, maybe they're cooking with an electric stove, using the microwave oven and such things.
On the hot tub it would be interesting to find out whether you adopt faster tripping and lower current tripping RCDs/RCBOs than standard 30mA for Hot Tubs. Given that in the USA some of our GFCIs trip at 4-5mA in 3-7mS and no normal, transient DC leakage unnecessary tripping. I say this because many UK hot tubs sold come from USA and many are sold within an in-line GFCI. Do you cut that off and put on a SWA for better mechanical protection with a slower tripping RCD. I agree on the earthing as well regarding sticking two rods in.
I think the EV charging point solution of protective devices is the way to go. Its an electronic solution but I think more reliable and fail safe.
Nice job
In Suffolk.
Good video. I’ll do a Saturday with you
Big fan, awesome work guys love the videos learnt some bits myself! Are you using bw glands outside? Do they not have to be cws?!
4:23 never understood the over priced hype either
Why not install pen fault protection?
Fun fact - I actually went and got popcorn
I notice that the preferred solution for electric vehicles nowadays seems to be pen fault detection devices, I wonder if this will spread to other outdoor supplies.
Corey you are that gland 😅
if its a swa gland for exterior usage then CW glands should be used not BW
My sparky wired up a shipping container. Had to put a garrow fault device in it for same reason to avoid a rod
For obvious reasons, you have a metal structure, imagine that thing becoming live
@@acelectricalsecurity I said for same reason not some 😂👍
Must be a Nick Bundy subscriber with those osb wooden carts
Think we need daily uploads 🤔
How old is this guy? his a genius
I am a little surprised that you mention PEN fault but don't mention the ground/earth potential. PME can have a variable voltage (same as neutral) of up to 20V depending on the phase imbalance, and that becomes significant for "wet people" who are very conductive, even down to 1 volt.
This PD can result in a large enough current to flow with the, say 10V, earth/water (bonded) potential to kill someone - and this is more likely than a PEN fault.
Why don't they supply hot tubs from a 4kva isolating transformer.
Far too expensive
I looked into that idea for my EV charge point, it cost just as much as the Zappi so that went out the window.
Subscribers blowing up here and rightly so amazing channel and a good bunch of lads comparef to john looks like corey skipped arm day 😅
There is no debate: No earth rod. Run a GEC back to supply. Come on, guys, do it right.
You need to refer to him as Brick bae now Jordan that brick dust on the silicone genius
Salt bae has nothing on him
Suffolk mate!
It's interesting, we are constantly told by the networks not to touch their stuff or put stuff in the meter boxes, yet somewhere along the line we have either been conned into taking responsibility or taken it upon ourselves to take responsibility for their supply.
What happens to their supply, is nothing to do with me or the homeowner, and if this system is that dangerous that it needs addition equipment then they should be footing the bill.
The networks use pme for one reason, it's the cheapest option.
The powers that be, if they had a spine, should be making it quite clear to the networks, they are responsible for their network and don't rely on the electricians to cover their arses because they can't be arsed maintaining their own network.
A T-T earth rod reading of 20 ohms !! In Cornwall your lucky to get a reading under 200 ohms thats if you can get an 4ft rod in more than 2ft...... Anyways ... Always nice work by you guys
Same here in west wales, no chance getting ir below 20 ohms! Were on solid rock.
Ipswich is in Suffolk. 😂