Just take flamers and meltas. If you didn't win, you didn't bring enough flamers and meltas. Just treat infernus marines as battleline and take 30 of them, nothing can go wrong as Vulkan Lives
@@CheesyRavs fun fact that I jusy learnt. Adrax agatone 3 × 6 units of flamestorm aggresors 3 × 6 eradicators 2 × 10 infernus marines 1 × 5 infernus marines And 1 land raider redeemer is exactly 2000 points. If you wanna make vulkan proud
@@caydensmith3291 That's a very good Salamanders list, now if only we can find a way to fit in He'stan for the reroll to wounds on all meltas and flamers
Another thing I'd recommend for list building is new recruit, its a web only list builder that works for 10th and ninth edition, as well as some other things. I absolutely ADORE the interface for it, and its constantly being updated (its also free)
Seriously, the fact that Auspex Tactics keeps recommending Battlescribe just gives me a "does he know?" vibe, like he just sticks with the thing that worked before forever, even if he hasn't noticed that it's stopped working. Battlescribe is all but vaporware at this point and the guy running it is just stealing your money. Poorhammer did a video all about list building apps and websites and even went in with the disclaimer that they've used Battlescribe for years, they're used to it, they have nostalgia for it, and they _still_ came out of the episode recommending New Recruit over it! Just make the switch, people! You'll be so much happier!
Man this is a beacon in the darkness. I was struggling to make a good list for my Salamanders so much that I just gave up and worked on my second army. How does Auspex keep making the right videos at the right time?
If you're not doing tourneys, 6x aggressors, gravis captain, 6x eradicators and apothecary biologis can all fit inside a Spartan, which also conveniently has either 8 las cannon or 6 laser destroyer shots for more anti-tank I also personally like the idea of using uriel ventris to deepstrike 6x assault centurions with 6 meltas for surprise nuke, which can then shred big stuff in melee too. That or 6 devastator centurions right into the enemies face for the +1S.
Always aim for built in redundancy: you have 1 unit that specialises in a particular aspect, then unit 2 that can do it too but not as well as the 1st, but can also do something different, giving additional flexibility.
I've actually been having a fair bit of success with the Anvil Siege Force at the moment, even if they aren't really competitive at a tournament level. We use GW recommended terrain, so it's not like we're playing on planet bowling ball or anything. The thing is, not everything in your army needs to stay static. You set up a couple of really heavy hitters at key points, making sure the enemy units will have to present themselves if they're going to move forward, and then use Inceptors and indirect fire to force them to come to you. Running a Repulsor Executioner and multiple Gladiator Lancers means you can have some truly fearsome levels of firepower on demand, with the Executioner's Heavy Laser Destroyer wounding almost anything in the game on a 2+. With the sustained on a 5+, I've managed to get four attacks through with only two shots, against a Questoris-class Knight. I'm not saying it's the best by any stretch, but it really can be effective.
late but this is how i’ve been doing it to. in list building i decide what units i’m okay with moving every turn. and what units i want to move as little as possible to maximize the army rule. setting those little movement units up in good fire lines is key to try and hold the board while others move forward
Using my primary army, Black Templars, as an example, I always have 2 or more “inviting targets” that could also be classified as Damage Dealers. I always bring a Redemptor for heavy fire support and to draw fire while my melee units get into charge range. Since 10e, I’ve been taking a Repulsor to transport 10 Sword Brethren + 2 characters, which also provides fire support and acts as a bullet sponge. I’ve recently acquired a Land Ranger Redeemer/Crusader, which is even tougher and its Assault Ramp is perfect for melee units. My LR tends to draw more fire than my Redemptor, giving me an extra turn of shooting and sometimes it even survives the battle! I always want a minimum of 5 units of battle-line or elite troops for Primary Obj takers/holders. I admit that my preference for Primaris Crusader Squads leaves me with fewer overall units for backfield Obsec and scoring secondaries, but that’s offset by giving me an advantage at taking and holding midfield objectives. All of my Black Templars lists includes the “Trinity” of Helbrecht, Grimaldus, and the Emperor’s Champion. I usually take a Castellan to accompany Helbrecht, and a Judiciar to lead 3-6 Bladeguards. The weakness of my army has been a lack of objective scorers, so I’ve recently been proxying 5 Neophytes as Scouts Squads (since I don’t have any Firstborn Crusaders for cheap units). They’re stuck with a basic loadout (no sniper rifle) but they serve their purpose of scoring objectives. I’ve also been using Jump Pack Intercessors in a similar role. (It depends on how many points I have.) My Black Templars are great at out-killing my opponents but when I lose a whole unit, it usually costs me a primary and I can fall behind on points. I know that I should use min-size squads instead of max, but it’s difficult to pass up maxing a leader’s ability, like the Helbrecht+Castellan combo on 10 Sword Brethren or 20 Crusaders.
@@franzmann3744 I do use the Lieutenant profile because it’s better, but I use the Castellan model because it’s Black Templars. I own a couple of “Bladeguard” Lieutenant models that I can use in tournaments if there’s a rule against proxying. Helbrecht is an auto-include, even now he’s be increased to 120 points. The only reason not to is if you don’t choose the Accept Any Challenge or Suffer Not the Unclean vows for Sustained or Lethal Hits, marginalizing Helbrecht’s 5+ Critical Hits ability. But even when I choose the Uphold the Honour vow for 6+ FNP, I’ll use Fervent Acclamation on Helbrecht’s squad to utilize his 5+ Criticals.
@@franzmann3744 I never use Black Templars in Vanguard or Gladius. Vanguard doesn’t make sense for BTs because they’re a melee army and will always be within 12” of the enemy. BT’s vows are superior to Gladius’ doctrines. I’ve experimented with Ironstorm Spearhead since I added 2 Land Raiders, a Gladiator, and Repulsor Executioner to my BT army, but trying to outshoot shooting armies with BT’s seem kinda pointless when my Ultramarines army has even more vehicles and dreads. Instead, with Black Templars, I can run a Double Land Raider list and rush my Sword Brethren across the table to get into combat and neutralize the enemy’s range advantage.
I've been tinkering with Anvil Siege Force. What I've found is that Heavy Intercessors are perfect as, well, anvils. You advance them up, get them in position, and let them absorb as much damage as possible. If they're not dealt with, they can lay down a surprising amount of fire power. Three msu squads, two scout squads, two infiltrator squads, and an intercessor squad for back line objectives gives a good skeleton to work off. From there you've got Gladiator Lancers, Eradicators, and Hellblasters as damage dealers. I'm also growing pretty fond of Devastator squads, namely Grav-cannon and Plasma-cannon marines. Grav-cannons are S6 damage 3, making them a decent fit against chunky infantry as well as vehicles, though the low AP isn't great even with ignoring cover. Plasma-cannons are a fair bit better than they were in 9th edition, at least in my opinion. Against a 5 man MEQ, each one will fire a minimum of two shots due to the blast rule changes, but larger squads aren't uncommon. I don't think it's an amazingly strong detachment or anything, but I'm not sure if it's being approached quite right. I think Rigid Discipline is probably the best mindset for it. Stand on an objective and yell 'come take it', take your lumps, then hit back harder next turn.
For dmg dealers/primary obj sitter, don't underestimate Centurion devastator in Ironstorm detachment with missile launchers and twin-las, especially in a repulsor with both gatling and twin-las. They are tanky, already reroll hits to let you oat something else, floating reroll works fantastic on twin-las to let you reroll the dmg roll and the hit on the repulsor. It lets you remove your slow ass models when charged by dangerous things or just to allow you more movement and still get out and shoot the next turn, the repulsor really help with their mobility and survivability on a unit already dangerous and tanky. And if you want to spend a cp on them, Gladius's Storm fire and Ironstorm's Mercy is weakness work really well with their missile launchers, Armor of contempt is also very good. It's an expensive combo at 365 for 3 models + tank but it works really well vs everything. And the repulsor really gives you more mobility then you would think.
Could you please try to make equivalent videos of the other factions too? The predominancy of most video contents is for Marines. Thanks for the dedication to the Hobby btw! :)
List building in general is always a matter of perspective and your mentality of how you go into things. What's your playstyle? Aggressive? Control? Hedgehog? One of the key tenets of 40k is that nothing you have on the table is sacred and keeping it alive means something else is wiped. With that in mind and a preference for an aggressive list, one rule to follow is to not have anything that you can't lose. Swamping your opponent with lots of 'I have to kill that' units hampers their decision making and is sure to get something into melee. How you win from there is board control and overwhelming melee or forward moving durable shooters. It should be obvious, but anything that has high stats for its points is an efficient list pick. However, don't confuse something good for the points with something good on the table. I don't think redemptor dreadnoughts have ever been great despite their relative low cost. Their output is swingy, they're impossible to hide and they're slow so getting it into melee is a challenge and if you can't then I'd argue you haven't gotten your points worth out of it. But then meta hits and you realize that all the patterns have been recognized and what to expect. Some guy who brings 12 bikes is doing better than he should and you're sat there with your "optimal list" and are losing because everything he has is on your own side of the table. A strong list is something that YOU can draw its potential out of, not some net-list that you don't understand half of how it works, especially now with all the ability bloat.
In* regards to Anvil Siege force. Like he said, you need something that can take a hit so it can stand there long enough to fire back. Y'know... The Lancer Laser Destroyer on the Gladiator Lancer happens to have the Heavy keyword.... So does the Heavy Laser Destroyer on the Repulsor Executioner... I'm thinking... Firing lanes... Basically "you want no man's land? Come get it."
Gladiator Lancer can be taken with literally any list. By giving itself its own re-rolls, it is proof against rule changes. That being said, it shines in the Vanguard Spearhead, where it becomes very hard to kill, and so can take risker and more advantageous shooting positions than it can in other detachments.
I feel like you're underestimating kayvaan shrike quite a lot! I'd have raven guard alongside salamanders in the "not quite as good as ultramarines" codex chapter tier.
Agreed. I think Tactical Tortoise said it best. Shrike's biggest weakness is that he stops you from taking Calgar, otherwise he'd be an auto-include in every list.
My Favourite Combo so far is to run a 10 man unit of Terminators with 2 Cyclones, A Terminator Captain for free Strats and a Terminator Ancient with Fire Discipline. You end up with a unit that spits out an absurdly huge amount of firepower, is incredibly tanky, and the more you damage them, the more deadly they get in return! Absolutely incredible brick of a unit to sit on the mid board objective.
👍👍 Thanks for the breakdown! I have to wonder, maybe 1st Company is _temporarily_ a bit weak because there's a big backlog of Terminator releases due 😁?
If Guilliman drops in points a little bit, it will be a great addition to run in Flamestorm Ultramarines. Double Oath, or an extra use either Devastating Flamers or +1 to wound for 0CP.
I'm pretty new to 40k and have been hoping to build a Celestial Lions army using Black Templars for at least their leaders (Bayards Revenge is awesome!) I've played the Firestorm detachment once or twice with borrowed minis and really enjoyed it, and I also have an interest in the Vanguard spearhead force. I was wondering if Black Templars are decent at using either of those detachments? I'm not really interested in running many (if any) Crusaders or anything since I'm thematically playing Lions not Templars, so I don't expect Righteous Crusaders is the way to go. Currently I only own a captain, 10 Infernus, a Stormraven and a Stormtalon but I'll hopefully get some more soon
Great tips although since I don't own Aggressors would Dev Centurions be a good, 65PTS higher, secondary choice provided you just need the fire power. Dev Cents are +1T/+1W/+1Sv/+1OC/-1M, can always reroll 1's (Full reroll if target is on objective) & their baseline main gun is a Twin-Linked Heavy Bolter. Granted for 10 more PTS one could take Terminators instead, which have a 4+ invul more volume of shots & Deep Strike options, just wondering if they could count as a backup "Tanky" option.
I’m no competitive player but I absolutely love centurions. I wouldn’t say it’s a great substitute, but if you aren’t looking to spend money I would say it’s near enough. Centurions have better shooting, but it’s hard to get away from people who want to charge you. Centurion firsts are weaker than power firsts, so I would be afraid of getting locked into melee, but they definitely can hold their own against infantry. Elite infantry I would be afraid of the charge. I personally just use my Centurions to focus big targets with Oath Rerolls on Hit, and the two linked rerolls on wounds.
Honour Vehement on Boltstorm Gravis Captain is pretty excellent as both his main weapon and his Extra Attacks relic weapon benefit. That is S+2 and A+4 power fist attacks in Assault Doctrine with a free AP+1 and Lance from battle tactic Honour the Chapter. Lots of honour going on here.
Sternguard are actually better in Anvil Siege Force than in First Company. Give them boltguns and use the stratagem. You can also stick them in Impulsors to sit on objectives.
If you absolutely have to put Shrike in a unit, forget the jump Intercessors, Vanguard Vets are the way to go. You don't want a large footprint on a model whose biggest strength is teleport tricks. Vanguard Vets are more dangerous in a 5 man squad with both better weapons and special pistols, more survivable with Storm Shields, and will give Shrike a more relevant buff in the form of Lethal Hits.
Stormlance wolves... curious to see how people support it. Max out thunderwolves with wolf lords and battle leaders of course... then I'm thinking a gladiator lancer and some desolation squads buffed by a venerable dreadnaught for the auras, couple cheap wolfies for objectives... then squeeze in termies or roll with more objective support ??
TWC are great though they need that maxed out squad with storm shields and character support as people tend to focus fire on them so the ride hard and ride fast strat is essential. I have been getting by with using a squad of Outriders and invader ATV with Chaplin on bike as a distraction carnifex to make my opponents focus on something other than my TWC. Wulfen dread is a really good option as well as when charging you can really stack on mortal wounds especially if you add tank shock on top of its innate mortal wound ability. I have been relying on intercessors and their sticky objective rule for objectives. For fire support I have been getting by with Bjorn with lascannon and Bastilus dread supported by an Iron Priest and a squad of Long fangs with lascannons and a Wolf Guard Pack Leader in terminator armor with cyclone missle launcher, stormbolter, and chainfist.
I’ve actually cut down on the number of TWC I’m running lately. Their bases are so massive that you very often find yourself unable to get them all into combat.
I may be alone in this, but... I *really* don't feel enthused about the Detachments as opposed to, say, my interest/hype in 8th edition and even in 9th for, say, my Crimson Fists lists? I don't feel strongly attached to any of the offerings, they feel too set-in-stone and not flexible like previously, and certain units being the way they are (i.e. the Command Squad being 'meh' with their fixed loadout) has me wondering if I'll even do anything this edition. Or see how the Ork Codex looks before abandoning hope :/ Edit: The example list just reinforces my point (not a jab at you, just the nature of 'meta') that there's a heavy lean on Mechanics and Meta as opposed to feeling like you can get away with 'fluff' friendly lists and still have a fighting chance. Probably not the way it is in practice, but that feeling is super offputting?
Can I request some help? I've been making my own list and, as I collect Salamanders, I run them in the proper detachment with 10 Infernus Marines. I also really love Drop Pods and the original idea was to have the Infernus Marines arrive using that and burning the hell out of something at the perfect 12'' distance to get the +1 Str buff and also get He'Stan to buff them as well. Now the problem is that I'm not sure whether to take them as 2 seperate 5 man Squads or as one 10 man brick. Wouldn't have been a problem previously when we had army wide combat squads. I ask myself this because, as the list stands, I also have a 5 man team of Intercessors, Assault Intercessors, and one 5 man grouo with Adrax Agatone and a Bladguard Lt leading 3 Bladeguard vets. I also have an Impulsor for battle taxi purposes. So while I see that the 10 man would be better for stratagem use, if I make it 2 5 man Infernus Squads I could send down any combination of things with the drop pod: Full melee threat with AI and Bladeguards, mixed with Intercessors/Infernus and Bladeguards, full flame or a ranged mix. The rest can either slog on foot or hop into the Impulsor, one of the spaces of which is reserved for He'Stan anyway, leading an AI or Infernus Squad. So the question really is: Is this tactical versatility worth the potential losses of a 10 man? If you're interested about the rest, I'm bringing a Brutalis, Ballistus, 3 Eradicators, 10 Infiltrators, 3 Eliminators with a Phobos Librarian for character threat, 3 Suppressors cause they're just a sick unit, a Combi-Weapon LT for shooting buffs (sadlly without the melee weapon Str upgrade of the detachment cause that seems fun on him) and last but not least 5 Termies with a Heavy Flamer.
Here's the thing: If you're going to buy the 10 anyway (and as a Salamanders player you're really doing a disservice to yourself if you don't), why not have a Science Day where you set out the time to play a few games with them as a ten man squad and a few games with them as two five man? It's not like you have to model them special, you just split the ten guys into two five guys (burgers and fries) and you point at a dude and go "that's the Sargeant". That way rather than just playing what people tell you to, you can figure out if you prefer them one way or the other? It feels like such a minor difference that I don't think you're gonna lose games because you had a ten man where you should've had two five mans or vice versa.
Question: I play occasionally against Chaos knights that just rip through my Salamanders army. I ended up getting Eradicators and a repulser executioner to help deal with him, but he still rips me up in turn 2. Is there something that can counter war dog and brigend spam without building my list specifically to counter him?
I have destroyed knights with hellblasters + lieutenant with fire discipline and devastator doctrine. A ton of lethal/sustained hits with good damage and 5+crits.
Against knights it ironically makes marines a horde army, you have to stay out of line of sight or get exterminated. Pick one or two knights at a time, play defensively, and be willing to sacrifice. A handful of Intercessors will block a charge just as well as a line of terminators or a repulsor, but you will regret their deaths much less.
@@jonathanmalone1943 I don’t know how I can score points with that. I normally do a similar strategy. I just get Knights of Shade when ever I think I have a good defensive position
It’s rough, there is every chance of being overpowered by units with stronger baseline stats. With that in mind, choosing a limited number of objectives to play for can be good, as you won’t be as spread out. Keep a unit or two in reserve to threaten their back line and they will be forced to leave units behind to defend territory. Look for opportunities to dogpile single units and objectives, as your army will always be stronger than the limited number of enemies in one corner of the field. It does mean giving up other control zones but basically look for localized superiority in one crisis zone at a time rather than trying to take the whole field at once.
Oh and for Knights of shade try spacing your models a bit. (Look up screening tactics) The unit will occupy more board space, thus preventing the base for those models from having a place to land. They can move through units but they cannot stop on top of them. It’s a similar strategy for counter deeepstrike
What are detachments? cuz I see that "Stormlance Task Force (though it's awesome with Space Wolves)" I thought I had to use this Champions of Russ thing but I don't really know what it does for me?
im currently rocking DA and using 10x knights with a chaplain for +1 wound is very nice yet to ue vanguard on this army but i will next game and give the chaplain and knights infiltrator to make the enemy focus them whilst my lancer and redemptor shoot/ however im using hellblasters with azreal and a lieutenant for the first time, im just worried that they will be killed easily but my opponents necrons as he has 20x immortals criting on 5+ with good rerolls, what should i take instead of hellblasters to go with my knights
Everything's fine and dandy but Scouts, Lieutenant with Combi Weapon and Biologis, unless you proxy them, there's no option to get them (same for Ballistus) and still, some people might say hell no to play with you. For Scouts proxy, I use Necron Warriors + Royal Guard :) seems odd, but I used my 20 yeard old Tau mini as a beakon marker :P
Yes. There is very little reason to take marine "troops" intercessors really don't do much bar sticky. Assault marines really don't do much that bladeguard or similar don't do better (maybe with agatone or similar character they can work though). Heavy intercessors are interesting with feiross but suffers because its the only unique thing for ironhands. And tactical squads have no redeeming features at all
Yeah, basically. The only reason you'd really want troops is if your attached to the designs in some way or another (not the most competitive but I don't blame you) or if (maybe) you want to save points taking objectives and use the intercessors for sticky (also not the best, but could save you some points for a big unit).
Counterpoint. If every single model takes a flamer i will please vulkan and he will assue victory
VULKAN LIVES!!
Just take flamers and meltas. If you didn't win, you didn't bring enough flamers and meltas. Just treat infernus marines as battleline and take 30 of them, nothing can go wrong as Vulkan Lives
@@CheesyRavs fun fact that I jusy learnt.
Adrax agatone
3 × 6 units of flamestorm aggresors
3 × 6 eradicators
2 × 10 infernus marines
1 × 5 infernus marines
And 1 land raider redeemer is exactly 2000 points. If you wanna make vulkan proud
🔥😀🔥!
@@caydensmith3291 That's a very good Salamanders list, now if only we can find a way to fit in He'stan for the reroll to wounds on all meltas and flamers
FACT: 90% of salamanders stop adding flamers right before they’ve hit it big with a flawless list
Another thing I'd recommend for list building is new recruit, its a web only list builder that works for 10th and ninth edition, as well as some other things. I absolutely ADORE the interface for it, and its constantly being updated (its also free)
Seriously, the fact that Auspex Tactics keeps recommending Battlescribe just gives me a "does he know?" vibe, like he just sticks with the thing that worked before forever, even if he hasn't noticed that it's stopped working. Battlescribe is all but vaporware at this point and the guy running it is just stealing your money. Poorhammer did a video all about list building apps and websites and even went in with the disclaimer that they've used Battlescribe for years, they're used to it, they have nostalgia for it, and they _still_ came out of the episode recommending New Recruit over it! Just make the switch, people! You'll be so much happier!
+1 on New Recruit
Liked it so much I went paid supporter on it.
Battlescribe also pulls from the same data. I use recruit on pc and scribe on phone.
you can get new recuit on your phone too
I was hoping to see a comment mentioning New Recruit. It's my fiancé's favorite tool, and my personal 2nd.
Man this is a beacon in the darkness. I was struggling to make a good list for my Salamanders so much that I just gave up and worked on my second army.
How does Auspex keep making the right videos at the right time?
How? You take a bunch of flamers
He is in your walls
Salamanders is easy, if the unit has a flamer or a melta, take that. If they dont, leave it off the list.
If you're not doing tourneys, 6x aggressors, gravis captain, 6x eradicators and apothecary biologis can all fit inside a Spartan, which also conveniently has either 8 las cannon or 6 laser destroyer shots for more anti-tank
I also personally like the idea of using uriel ventris to deepstrike 6x assault centurions with 6 meltas for surprise nuke, which can then shred big stuff in melee too.
That or 6 devastator centurions right into the enemies face for the +1S.
Always aim for built in redundancy: you have 1 unit that specialises in a particular aspect, then unit 2 that can do it too but not as well as the 1st, but can also do something different, giving additional flexibility.
Auspex is literally the best.
I've actually been having a fair bit of success with the Anvil Siege Force at the moment, even if they aren't really competitive at a tournament level. We use GW recommended terrain, so it's not like we're playing on planet bowling ball or anything. The thing is, not everything in your army needs to stay static. You set up a couple of really heavy hitters at key points, making sure the enemy units will have to present themselves if they're going to move forward, and then use Inceptors and indirect fire to force them to come to you. Running a Repulsor Executioner and multiple Gladiator Lancers means you can have some truly fearsome levels of firepower on demand, with the Executioner's Heavy Laser Destroyer wounding almost anything in the game on a 2+. With the sustained on a 5+, I've managed to get four attacks through with only two shots, against a Questoris-class Knight. I'm not saying it's the best by any stretch, but it really can be effective.
late but this is how i’ve been doing it to. in list building i decide what units i’m okay with moving every turn. and what units i want to move as little as possible to maximize the army rule. setting those little movement units up in good fire lines is key to try and hold the board while others move forward
Using my primary army, Black Templars, as an example, I always have 2 or more “inviting targets” that could also be classified as Damage Dealers. I always bring a Redemptor for heavy fire support and to draw fire while my melee units get into charge range. Since 10e, I’ve been taking a Repulsor to transport 10 Sword Brethren + 2 characters, which also provides fire support and acts as a bullet sponge. I’ve recently acquired a Land Ranger Redeemer/Crusader, which is even tougher and its Assault Ramp is perfect for melee units. My LR tends to draw more fire than my Redemptor, giving me an extra turn of shooting and sometimes it even survives the battle!
I always want a minimum of 5 units of battle-line or elite troops for Primary Obj takers/holders. I admit that my preference for Primaris Crusader Squads leaves me with fewer overall units for backfield Obsec and scoring secondaries, but that’s offset by giving me an advantage at taking and holding midfield objectives.
All of my Black Templars lists includes the “Trinity” of Helbrecht, Grimaldus, and the Emperor’s Champion. I usually take a Castellan to accompany Helbrecht, and a Judiciar to lead 3-6 Bladeguards.
The weakness of my army has been a lack of objective scorers, so I’ve recently been proxying 5 Neophytes as Scouts Squads (since I don’t have any Firstborn Crusaders for cheap units). They’re stuck with a basic loadout (no sniper rifle) but they serve their purpose of scoring objectives. I’ve also been using Jump Pack Intercessors in a similar role. (It depends on how many points I have.)
My Black Templars are great at out-killing my opponents but when I lose a whole unit, it usually costs me a primary and I can fall behind on points. I know that I should use min-size squads instead of max, but it’s difficult to pass up maxing a leader’s ability, like the Helbrecht+Castellan combo on 10 Sword Brethren or 20 Crusaders.
I think a "regular" Lieutenant is a better castellan plus not Sold on Hellbrecht.
@@franzmann3744 I do use the Lieutenant profile because it’s better, but I use the Castellan model because it’s Black Templars. I own a couple of “Bladeguard” Lieutenant models that I can use in tournaments if there’s a rule against proxying.
Helbrecht is an auto-include, even now he’s be increased to 120 points. The only reason not to is if you don’t choose the Accept Any Challenge or Suffer Not the Unclean vows for Sustained or Lethal Hits, marginalizing Helbrecht’s 5+ Critical Hits ability. But even when I choose the Uphold the Honour vow for 6+ FNP, I’ll use Fervent Acclamation on Helbrecht’s squad to utilize his 5+ Criticals.
@@reavern but does he make sense in other Attachments like vanguard or Gladius? I guess lethal hits on 5+ IS nice enough.
@@franzmann3744 I never use Black Templars in Vanguard or Gladius. Vanguard doesn’t make sense for BTs because they’re a melee army and will always be within 12” of the enemy. BT’s vows are superior to Gladius’ doctrines.
I’ve experimented with Ironstorm Spearhead since I added 2 Land Raiders, a Gladiator, and Repulsor Executioner to my BT army, but trying to outshoot shooting armies with BT’s seem kinda pointless when my Ultramarines army has even more vehicles and dreads. Instead, with Black Templars, I can run a Double Land Raider list and rush my Sword Brethren across the table to get into combat and neutralize the enemy’s range advantage.
Now to take this idea and figure out how to make my Alpha Legion be 'totally loyalists you guys don't worry about it'...
Hydra Dominatus, Alpharius
Paint a forge fiend in ultramarine blue, they will never know
I've been tinkering with Anvil Siege Force. What I've found is that Heavy Intercessors are perfect as, well, anvils. You advance them up, get them in position, and let them absorb as much damage as possible. If they're not dealt with, they can lay down a surprising amount of fire power. Three msu squads, two scout squads, two infiltrator squads, and an intercessor squad for back line objectives gives a good skeleton to work off. From there you've got Gladiator Lancers, Eradicators, and Hellblasters as damage dealers.
I'm also growing pretty fond of Devastator squads, namely Grav-cannon and Plasma-cannon marines. Grav-cannons are S6 damage 3, making them a decent fit against chunky infantry as well as vehicles, though the low AP isn't great even with ignoring cover. Plasma-cannons are a fair bit better than they were in 9th edition, at least in my opinion. Against a 5 man MEQ, each one will fire a minimum of two shots due to the blast rule changes, but larger squads aren't uncommon.
I don't think it's an amazingly strong detachment or anything, but I'm not sure if it's being approached quite right. I think Rigid Discipline is probably the best mindset for it. Stand on an objective and yell 'come take it', take your lumps, then hit back harder next turn.
For dmg dealers/primary obj sitter, don't underestimate Centurion devastator in Ironstorm detachment with missile launchers and twin-las, especially in a repulsor with both gatling and twin-las. They are tanky, already reroll hits to let you oat something else, floating reroll works fantastic on twin-las to let you reroll the dmg roll and the hit on the repulsor. It lets you remove your slow ass models when charged by dangerous things or just to allow you more movement and still get out and shoot the next turn, the repulsor really help with their mobility and survivability on a unit already dangerous and tanky. And if you want to spend a cp on them, Gladius's Storm fire and Ironstorm's Mercy is weakness work really well with their missile launchers, Armor of contempt is also very good. It's an expensive combo at 365 for 3 models + tank but it works really well vs everything. And the repulsor really gives you more mobility then you would think.
Could you please try to make equivalent videos of the other factions too? The predominancy of most video contents is for Marines. Thanks for the dedication to the Hobby btw! :)
List building in general is always a matter of perspective and your mentality of how you go into things.
What's your playstyle? Aggressive? Control? Hedgehog?
One of the key tenets of 40k is that nothing you have on the table is sacred and keeping it alive means something else is wiped. With that in mind and a preference for an aggressive list, one rule to follow is to not have anything that you can't lose.
Swamping your opponent with lots of 'I have to kill that' units hampers their decision making and is sure to get something into melee. How you win from there is board control and overwhelming melee or forward moving durable shooters.
It should be obvious, but anything that has high stats for its points is an efficient list pick. However, don't confuse something good for the points with something good on the table. I don't think redemptor dreadnoughts have ever been great despite their relative low cost. Their output is swingy, they're impossible to hide and they're slow so getting it into melee is a challenge and if you can't then I'd argue you haven't gotten your points worth out of it.
But then meta hits and you realize that all the patterns have been recognized and what to expect. Some guy who brings 12 bikes is doing better than he should and you're sat there with your "optimal list" and are losing because everything he has is on your own side of the table.
A strong list is something that YOU can draw its potential out of, not some net-list that you don't understand half of how it works, especially now with all the ability bloat.
In* regards to Anvil Siege force. Like he said, you need something that can take a hit so it can stand there long enough to fire back.
Y'know... The Lancer Laser Destroyer on the Gladiator Lancer happens to have the Heavy keyword....
So does the Heavy Laser Destroyer on the Repulsor Executioner...
I'm thinking... Firing lanes... Basically "you want no man's land? Come get it."
I’d love a video like this for all the armies in the game. Mainly necrons though cuz canoptek court has me using so many ideas
This video type but for every army, starting with Tau, please :) Love your videos man they're always super informative. Great job again!
Gladiator Lancer can be taken with literally any list. By giving itself its own re-rolls, it is proof against rule changes. That being said, it shines in the Vanguard Spearhead, where it becomes very hard to kill, and so can take risker and more advantageous shooting positions than it can in other detachments.
I feel like you're underestimating kayvaan shrike quite a lot! I'd have raven guard alongside salamanders in the "not quite as good as ultramarines" codex chapter tier.
Agreed.
I think Tactical Tortoise said it best. Shrike's biggest weakness is that he stops you from taking Calgar, otherwise he'd be an auto-include in every list.
My Favourite Combo so far is to run a 10 man unit of Terminators with 2 Cyclones, A Terminator Captain for free Strats and a Terminator Ancient with Fire Discipline.
You end up with a unit that spits out an absurdly huge amount of firepower, is incredibly tanky, and the more you damage them, the more deadly they get in return!
Absolutely incredible brick of a unit to sit on the mid board objective.
This man flipping loves the Repulsor Executioner and I don't know why
_"How to Write a STRONG Space Marine Army List"_
Step 1) Close "Codex: Space Marines"
Step 2) Open "Index: Aeldari"
👍👍 Thanks for the breakdown!
I have to wonder, maybe 1st Company is _temporarily_ a bit weak because there's a big backlog of Terminator releases due 😁?
Thats a great video. I look forward for other videos about listbuilding especially for other factions eg Guard or custodes
If Guilliman drops in points a little bit, it will be a great addition to run in Flamestorm Ultramarines.
Double Oath, or an extra use either Devastating Flamers or +1 to wound for 0CP.
I'm pretty new to 40k and have been hoping to build a Celestial Lions army using Black Templars for at least their leaders (Bayards Revenge is awesome!)
I've played the Firestorm detachment once or twice with borrowed minis and really enjoyed it, and I also have an interest in the Vanguard spearhead force. I was wondering if Black Templars are decent at using either of those detachments? I'm not really interested in running many (if any) Crusaders or anything since I'm thematically playing Lions not Templars, so I don't expect Righteous Crusaders is the way to go.
Currently I only own a captain, 10 Infernus, a Stormraven and a Stormtalon but I'll hopefully get some more soon
I just bought 5 Infernus Marines for under £10. 🔥
I don't even play Space Marines often but they turn up sometimes to help my Imperial Guard. 💀
I got 20 for $15, just because flamer memes
I really enjoyed this video, but I would’ve liked to see 1000 point list to get started.
Great tips although since I don't own Aggressors would Dev Centurions be a good, 65PTS higher, secondary choice provided you just need the fire power. Dev Cents are +1T/+1W/+1Sv/+1OC/-1M, can always reroll 1's (Full reroll if target is on objective) & their baseline main gun is a Twin-Linked Heavy Bolter.
Granted for 10 more PTS one could take Terminators instead, which have a 4+ invul more volume of shots & Deep Strike options, just wondering if they could count as a backup "Tanky" option.
I’m no competitive player but I absolutely love centurions. I wouldn’t say it’s a great substitute, but if you aren’t looking to spend money I would say it’s near enough. Centurions have better shooting, but it’s hard to get away from people who want to charge you. Centurion firsts are weaker than power firsts, so I would be afraid of getting locked into melee, but they definitely can hold their own against infantry. Elite infantry I would be afraid of the charge.
I personally just use my Centurions to focus big targets with Oath Rerolls on Hit, and the two linked rerolls on wounds.
Honour Vehement on Boltstorm Gravis Captain is pretty excellent as both his main weapon and his Extra Attacks relic weapon benefit. That is S+2 and A+4 power fist attacks in Assault Doctrine with a free AP+1 and Lance from battle tactic Honour the Chapter. Lots of honour going on here.
no, extra attacks weapon can never have their number of attacks modified
Auspex why are you such a cool guy?
Sternguard are actually better in Anvil Siege Force than in First Company. Give them boltguns and use the stratagem. You can also stick them in Impulsors to sit on objectives.
step one: Templars
step two: Oops! All Crusaders!
I'd be interested to see how the Dark Angels handle 1st Company and Stormlance detachments.
My largest problem with Anvil as a Fists Player is the fact that you only get the 6+++ on an objective and if you control it.
My main strat is infiltrators, charging assault intercessors, And a sternguard Party bus
If you absolutely have to put Shrike in a unit, forget the jump Intercessors, Vanguard Vets are the way to go.
You don't want a large footprint on a model whose biggest strength is teleport tricks. Vanguard Vets are more dangerous in a 5 man squad with both better weapons and special pistols, more survivable with Storm Shields, and will give Shrike a more relevant buff in the form of Lethal Hits.
Day 3 of asking for the Legends of the Horus Heresy rules review
Stormlance wolves... curious to see how people support it. Max out thunderwolves with wolf lords and battle leaders of course... then I'm thinking a gladiator lancer and some desolation squads buffed by a venerable dreadnaught for the auras, couple cheap wolfies for objectives... then squeeze in termies or roll with more objective support ??
TWC are great though they need that maxed out squad with storm shields and character support as people tend to focus fire on them so the ride hard and ride fast strat is essential. I have been getting by with using a squad of Outriders and invader ATV with Chaplin on bike as a distraction carnifex to make my opponents focus on something other than my TWC. Wulfen dread is a really good option as well as when charging you can really stack on mortal wounds especially if you add tank shock on top of its innate mortal wound ability.
I have been relying on intercessors and their sticky objective rule for objectives. For fire support I have been getting by with Bjorn with lascannon and Bastilus dread supported by an Iron Priest and a squad of Long fangs with lascannons and a Wolf Guard Pack Leader in terminator armor with cyclone missle launcher, stormbolter, and chainfist.
I’ve actually cut down on the number of TWC I’m running lately. Their bases are so massive that you very often find yourself unable to get them all into combat.
@@kingjonstarkgeryan8573 I like that!!
I may be alone in this, but... I *really* don't feel enthused about the Detachments as opposed to, say, my interest/hype in 8th edition and even in 9th for, say, my Crimson Fists lists?
I don't feel strongly attached to any of the offerings, they feel too set-in-stone and not flexible like previously, and certain units being the way they are (i.e. the Command Squad being 'meh' with their fixed loadout) has me wondering if I'll even do anything this edition. Or see how the Ork Codex looks before abandoning hope :/
Edit: The example list just reinforces my point (not a jab at you, just the nature of 'meta') that there's a heavy lean on Mechanics and Meta as opposed to feeling like you can get away with 'fluff' friendly lists and still have a fighting chance. Probably not the way it is in practice, but that feeling is super offputting?
An all comers list isn't building a list that can taxkle any enemy types you can, but instead make you score as much Tactical objectives as possible
Pedro for the *Crimson Fists :)
That storm lance list idea of yours seems like alot. That's 2k points?
Step 1.
Pick a few big guns.
Step 2.
Win.
Next up, how to write a half-arsed thousand sons list, yet still play it so well you get your own faction nerfed (especially vs space marines)!
Weird you didn't mention Lion with Dark Angels...
forgot Tor Garadon 😢
thanks
Can I request some help?
I've been making my own list and, as I collect Salamanders, I run them in the proper detachment with 10 Infernus Marines.
I also really love Drop Pods and the original idea was to have the Infernus Marines arrive using that and burning the hell out of something at the perfect 12'' distance to get the +1 Str buff and also get He'Stan to buff them as well.
Now the problem is that I'm not sure whether to take them as 2 seperate 5 man Squads or as one 10 man brick. Wouldn't have been a problem previously when we had army wide combat squads. I ask myself this because, as the list stands, I also have a 5 man team of Intercessors, Assault Intercessors, and one 5 man grouo with Adrax Agatone and a Bladguard Lt leading 3 Bladeguard vets. I also have an Impulsor for battle taxi purposes.
So while I see that the 10 man would be better for stratagem use, if I make it 2 5 man Infernus Squads I could send down any combination of things with the drop pod:
Full melee threat with AI and Bladeguards, mixed with Intercessors/Infernus and Bladeguards, full flame or a ranged mix. The rest can either slog on foot or hop into the Impulsor, one of the spaces of which is reserved for He'Stan anyway, leading an AI or Infernus Squad.
So the question really is: Is this tactical versatility worth the potential losses of a 10 man?
If you're interested about the rest, I'm bringing a Brutalis, Ballistus, 3 Eradicators, 10 Infiltrators, 3 Eliminators with a Phobos Librarian for character threat, 3 Suppressors cause they're just a sick unit, a Combi-Weapon LT for shooting buffs (sadlly without the melee weapon Str upgrade of the detachment cause that seems fun on him) and last but not least 5 Termies with a Heavy Flamer.
Here's the thing: If you're going to buy the 10 anyway (and as a Salamanders player you're really doing a disservice to yourself if you don't), why not have a Science Day where you set out the time to play a few games with them as a ten man squad and a few games with them as two five man? It's not like you have to model them special, you just split the ten guys into two five guys (burgers and fries) and you point at a dude and go "that's the Sargeant". That way rather than just playing what people tell you to, you can figure out if you prefer them one way or the other? It feels like such a minor difference that I don't think you're gonna lose games because you had a ten man where you should've had two five mans or vice versa.
Question: I play occasionally against Chaos knights that just rip through my Salamanders army. I ended up getting Eradicators and a repulser executioner to help deal with him, but he still rips me up in turn 2. Is there something that can counter war dog and brigend spam without building my list specifically to counter him?
I have destroyed knights with hellblasters + lieutenant with fire discipline and devastator doctrine. A ton of lethal/sustained hits with good damage and 5+crits.
Against knights it ironically makes marines a horde army, you have to stay out of line of sight or get exterminated. Pick one or two knights at a time, play defensively, and be willing to sacrifice. A handful of Intercessors will block a charge just as well as a line of terminators or a repulsor, but you will regret their deaths much less.
@@jonathanmalone1943 I don’t know how I can score points with that. I normally do a similar strategy. I just get Knights of Shade when ever I think I have a good defensive position
It’s rough, there is every chance of being overpowered by units with stronger baseline stats. With that in mind, choosing a limited number of objectives to play for can be good, as you won’t be as spread out. Keep a unit or two in reserve to threaten their back line and they will be forced to leave units behind to defend territory. Look for opportunities to dogpile single units and objectives, as your army will always be stronger than the limited number of enemies in one corner of the field. It does mean giving up other control zones but basically look for localized superiority in one crisis zone at a time rather than trying to take the whole field at once.
Oh and for Knights of shade try spacing your models a bit. (Look up screening tactics) The unit will occupy more board space, thus preventing the base for those models from having a place to land. They can move through units but they cannot stop on top of them. It’s a similar strategy for counter deeepstrike
I haven't made a list since list 4th edition.. can you take Sicaran Punishers in 40k? :D I just think they look sweet.
Wouldn’t Ravenwing do okay with the Stormlance Task Force?
Ultramarines turn out to be better than most of their compliant brothers...who woul'dve saw that coming??
What are detachments? cuz I see that "Stormlance Task Force (though it's awesome with Space Wolves)"
I thought I had to use this Champions of Russ thing but I don't really know what it does for me?
im currently rocking DA and using 10x knights with a chaplain for +1 wound is very nice yet to ue vanguard on this army but i will next game and give the chaplain and knights infiltrator to make the enemy focus them whilst my lancer and redemptor shoot/ however im using hellblasters with azreal and a lieutenant for the first time, im just worried that they will be killed easily but my opponents necrons as he has 20x immortals criting on 5+ with good rerolls, what should i take instead of hellblasters to go with my knights
New Recruit tends to be better maintained and sig ifica tly less scumy than Battlescribe.
I dont know what im doing wrong but ive put the army list into 2 different list builders and it keeps coming in at 2010 points
Mostly a miss on the Space Wolf assessment here
I can`t find the app you mentioned, can you give link?
Everything's fine and dandy but Scouts, Lieutenant with Combi Weapon and Biologis, unless you proxy them, there's no option to get them (same for Ballistus) and still, some people might say hell no to play with you. For Scouts proxy, I use Necron Warriors + Royal Guard :) seems odd, but I used my 20 yeard old Tau mini as a beakon marker :P
I forget to comment on all your videos for : comments for the comments god ! Like for the like throne 😂❤❤❤
Wait it says azrael isn't able to lead company heroes
😎👍👍
I can no more found : Gladiator, Inceptor and Agressor :/
Stock of all the SM models are low because of Xmas honestly
@@HowDoPlayGame still, it was rly low before 🥲 i check not every but rly often :/
The best part is that if you can do this for Spehss Mehreens, you can also do it for armies that are actually interesting.
"whatever you like is bad" is not a very interesting opinion, kid.
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To use older terminology, just disregard the troops section then?
Yes. There is very little reason to take marine "troops" intercessors really don't do much bar sticky. Assault marines really don't do much that bladeguard or similar don't do better (maybe with agatone or similar character they can work though). Heavy intercessors are interesting with feiross but suffers because its the only unique thing for ironhands. And tactical squads have no redeeming features at all
Yeah, basically. The only reason you'd really want troops is if your attached to the designs in some way or another (not the most competitive but I don't blame you) or if (maybe) you want to save points taking objectives and use the intercessors for sticky (also not the best, but could save you some points for a big unit).
Recommending BattleScribe? Ugh.
What is wrong with Battlescribe? I'm back to the hobby after a long time and I have never heard anyone complaining about it? I'm genuinely curious