Ep. 191 | Get FOC’d - with the Ranch Fairy
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- Опубліковано 25 лип 2021
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"down the rabbit hole"... You ain't kidding. I started following Troy after I watched him with The Hunting Public. Then I started reading Dr. Ashby's work. I upgraded my arrows and went from shooting 450 gr to 610 gr arrows w/250gr up front. Nock and paper tuned to bullet holes. I've never shot better in my life. I'm hoping to see what my arrows do to an elk this year.
The industry needs more guys like Troy Fowler and Dr. Ashby. I think they are really trying to help. They don't take money from the industry so they can't be bought and are free to speak truth. They take a lot of heat but still do this. Stand up dudes.
I loved this podcast. I’ve been listening to the Ranch Fairy for about 18 months. I am using 648 gr. Adult arrows now and will never go back to Twizzlers
Between him and the hunting public, I have learned a tremendous amount.
Heck yeah - great to hear, my friend!
Same here and some of his analysis pertains to rifle hunting, as well. What causes an animal to die is not exactly the wound itself. The disruption of oxygenated blood to the brain is what causes death. Technically, all the animals are dying of brain death. What Ranch Fairy is saying is that your target should always be what he calls the Vital V. The sits partially between lobes of the lungs. Your best shot that virtually gaurantees a dead animal is when you get a shot through both lobes of lungs and the heart. So, your aim should look like this. Imagine a straight vertical line crossed by a horizontal line midway just below midline in the side. You will notice that falls behind what looks like the forward shoulder joint, in essence, forming a V laying on its side with the point of the v pointing to the front of the animal.
So, notice what he says about the arrow with significant FOC weight that is heavier than other arrows. It loses less velocity. Same thing applies with bullets. A .300 Win Mag 220 grain bullet loses less velocity at a given time due to drag than does a .308 Win 150 grain. The heavier .300 Win Mag is not necessarily making the bigger hole and even if it did, the hole is not what kills the animal. The .300 WM or even Mark's cherished .300 WSM has better flight characteristics or external ballistics. Short answer, it is less affected by cross winds. It loses less and it gets there quicker because it starts out normally over 3,000 fps. This is why the .300 WM is favored by some military snipers. Often, to 500 yards, they can simply hold left or right edge of target, into the wind, get a center of mass hit, which is the actual intention. They don't pierce ear lobes. They put rounds in targets.
The .308 and the .300 are making holes through hearts and lungs. What happens is the disruption of the lungs stops or hampers greatly the ability of lungs to bring oxygen to the blood. In addition, a busted up heart may try to beat its efforts are to naught as blood pours out and pressure drops to nil. In the mean time, the brain is still operating on its last vestiges of oxygenated blood and the beast will run 30 to 100 yards. Other times, you see a deer drop and then "ghost run" with legs pounding the air. That is because they are running on instinct. Finally, the brain runs out of juice and all operations and motion ceases as the brain stops working. Brain death.
I am not an RT like Troy is and he could certainly fine tune or correct anything I said.
Point of fact, another youtuber, deermeatfordinner, brought down a canadian moose at distance with a 6.5 Creedmoor shooting Hornady 143 gr ELD-X. Turns out accuracy is more important.
My question is: does this apply to the western hunter? There’s a serious debate there for a multitude of reasons.
@@progradepainting3755 I struggle with the same thing, but no matter what you do with FOC and arrow weight the fixed blade broad head is the only way to go.
@@andrewmccann7572 I just don’t think it’s a one size fits all situation. My situation is particularly niche when it comes to deer. I’m here in southern Arizona, and we hunt the tiny coues deer for the most part, and I’ve come to find that a very low profile arrow that’s balanced is key to getting tight shots on theses deer. And a mechanical like the sevr 1.5 works really well. You need a super stream lined set up with tight pin gaps out to extended distances. For elk and mule deer, I would agree that the fixed heads are probably best. In most other parts of the country I think fixed heads are the best too. This really is an Arizona thing more than anywhere else. I’m convinced at this point both setups are needed depending on what I’m after.
This is great stuff.
As a shop owner I try to teach guys all the time about FOC. The stability, penetration and down range accuracy is just the the beginning of the attributes of FOC.
I tell it this way...
13%foc= a 2x4 flying through the air
19%+foc= a baseball with a string behind it.
At 19% foc you are pulling the Arrow through the air vs pushing the arrow through the air.
Another awesome podcast. Practically bounced an arrow off a deer last year never found the deer or arrow. Had shoulder surgery in November of 2021 which allowed me to take a step back and really dig in. I found the Ranch Fairy and he is an eye opener. I went from 475gr with mechanicals to 567gr with 20%FOC and using the Cutthroat single bevel 125gr. Excited for this next upcoming season. Bring him back.
Heck yeah! Good luck this season, Bryce!
Ready for part 2!
The 39 minute mark about heavy arrows with low FOC. I shoot XX78's with 125 up front (12% FOC and 560 gr. total), and I've noticed when they hit any heavier bone (ribs no problem), I don't get full penetration. So, I have planned to switch to a heavier head for higher FOC. I've been following Troy for a few weeks now and what he is saying, directly correlates to what I had been seeing and thinking. What I didn't realize, is there's so much more to it. Oh, this rabbit hole is gonna go deep!
36:48 a 2,000 grain arrow 150 fps out of a 65lb bow! Incredible. Love the ranch fairy! Has been so helpful!
Great content. Glad to see more folks getting turned on to the Ashby Report and adult arrows.
Fred Bear, Howard Hill, Saxon Pops all had the same ideas 100 years ago. Heavy stiff spiked arrows penetration better. And their bows were shooting around 190 FPS.
Always great to jump down the rabbit 🐇 hole 🕳 with the Ranch Fairy 🧚♂️. 🏹. Even though I have heard this over and over one can pick something out that’s new and helpful.
Sadly most people only hear what they want and think he says the only arrow weight to use is 650 or 700+. He and others are just sharing testing, then people can figure out what works and flies best for them. He has mentioned before that if you have a 450-475 arrow that flies like a dart and the 600 is wonky, go with the average weight arrow that flies better. Just have an arrow with high structural integrity and is sharper than factory.
I look forward to part 2
Great explanations to understand these findings. Made a great case for the long riser of the Mathews V3X33
I’m looking forward to the next one with Ranchfairy about broadheads!
Dude I'm switching to some adult arrows after watching this guy for a bit.
Really enjoyed your video, troy is a treasure trove of knowledge and information, troy can explain things in a super simple way about about pretty sophisticated topics that's easy to understand. JUST MAKES SENSE...!!!
Damn!! 2nd time hunting and haven't done it In 20 years. Was hoping to bow hunt again . This video was like holy cow!
Top of the line
I'm glad this info is getting out there.
Good stuff guys !!!! Ol Ranch fairy is great and doing get things
Thanks for tuning in!
… re: helical vs bevel direction… “I’ve done it backwards and everything died… shhh” Love it. Since Im too lazy to re-fletch, thats been my experience too.
Thanks for the very clear, practical explanations. Cheers to Ashby! It seems counterintuitive how 2 bladers can out perform 3 bladers, it mystified me. The proof is in the results, I can testify to it. Because I figured that 3 blades are better for a wound channel and 2 would be better penetration, I had two setups with my longbow. For moose only, I’d need more penetration so For them I setup with 250g grizzlies instead of 3 blade woodsmans. Then i ran low on 3 bladers so I just decided to use up my surplus on bears and deer, thats when I started to notice animals were falling mostly in sight and if not they have been well under 100 yds. Thanks for the video.
Corvair. Unsafe at any speed according to Ralph Nader. Many disagree with him. I enjoyed the one I rode around in. Great video.
I’ll say this for people who are worried about accuracy/trajectory for heavier arrows. I hunt Missouri with crop fields and wooded areas. I have stands set for the opportunity of 25 yard max shots though brush/timber or as far as I want max shots in an open field. I am by no means an excellent archer or abnormally good.
I use a Bowtech rpm 360 set at 29”&70#’s. My Day Six Hd is 630 grains, 15% FOC with my 150 iron will wide solids up front. I shoot 4 fletch Rayzr Feathers (very small profile) and a lighted nock. My alleged speed is around 251 fps (never chrono’d it personally).
At 40 yards, I’m holding a 3” group. Basically a tennis ball. My iron will wide solids group within an inch of my field points. The 150 Scwacker 3” mechanical is perfect with field points. I even have a 190 grain Simmons Tree Shark (2 1/16th” two blade fixed head) flying well out to 40.
The only reason I haven’t passed 40 is I live in town currently and that’s the distance from my mailbox to my backyard. I just got all dozen arrows nock tuned and fletched, as well as Broadhead tested. Out of a dozen I had 3 that would not shoot broadheads consistently. Those are now permanent field point arrows. They fly great with field points. When I get some more time, I’ll head put to my hunting farm and make my custom sight tape out as far as possible. From what it looks like, I should have clearance out to 100 or better with my single pin sight. Personally, I believe the max I would shoot on a living animal is around 60-70, depending on how much practice I get before the opportunity. As season progresses and my practice time dwindles, my max distance closes in. At the beginning of season when I’m the most practiced, it’s further out.
Last season, I had a 140” class 9 point sparring with a young goofy 7 point at 70 yards. For 45 minutes. If I had my bow better tuned, and with a better setup, I would have felt comfortable with that shot. I was shooting a Black Eagle Spartan, and a Grim Reaper Hades Pro Series 3 blade. My bow was not tuned well enough and I had erratic Broadhead flight beginning at 60. So my limit was 55. And I regret ever allowing my bow shop to talk me into a lighter, faster setup.
If you can have a long draw length and can pull a heavy weight, you can use 550-650gr arrows and still get 270+fps.
Nothing ruins a good story like the facts!
How's part 2 coming along?
This was a great show!
This guy really has sky rocketed repeating the same message over and over.
I honestly feel that people need to do that in order to get the info out to the masses. Almost like promoting a product, the world is so large if you're only promoting in your local area then the surrounding towns may never see/ hear about your product/ info.
My problem is I can't stop my arrows in the target now!
I have been using the Morrell High Roller with luck. Stop my arrows field and broadhead.
Would love to see you break away and cover the Micro Hades Wich has some legit hype for tuffness and sharpness. Thanks RF!
Troy is a good guy, I emailed him a question yesterday and the dude answered back within 20 minutes.
I asked him something late one time expecting he'd never respond until at least the next day. Ten minutes or less. I was mortified.
Lancaster Archery did a slo motion video of an arrow that was fetched in one direction ( don’t remember the direction) and you could see it float for a second and recorrect to the way the arrow naturally wanted to fly off of the string .
So, I think it does matter .
IIRC- Momentum is 'Force Vectored.' KE = The mechanical energy that a body has by virtue of its motion.
I’d like to see the Valkyrie system tested by the RF.
Super informative
I don't think people that don't have a lot of wild hogs around realize how tough a free range wild boar is to get trough. Heck, even the big sows. If you are 20' up in a tree stand it is even worse especially if they are 15 yards or closer. If you don't poke a hole out of the bottom of them and they run more than 80 yards, more than likely, you are not finding them. I much prefer shooting hogs from the ground. I am going back to having a couple of fixed heads in my quiver. I lost the last two big hogs I shot with mechanical's.
What kind of arrow case is that on the table? Looks like a good one.
Shoot at increasing distance to check spin. I’d say yes they spin faster left than right.
I had the same exact question about are my arrows turning 1 and 1/2 turns or are they turning to the right so I just kept moving closer and closer to the Target until I was three feet away and then I knew it couldn't possibly turn 360 as it turns out all three of my compounds Spin To the Left thank God because that's the only way I have pledged errors in the last 50 years
I have a left helical vane what direction of bevel on a single bevel arrow head should I get? Also what brand do you suggest
Guys... how to tell which way your bow is naturally spinning the arrow. Shoot at 5 feet, then 10, then 15, then 20. Observe which way your reference point is rotating as you walk back. If it progressively clocks to the left or right it tells you which way the shaft is spinning.
What about cutting quarter inch at a time off your arrow to achieve the perfect spine is that part of your regimen Troy that's how I was taught for traditional archery and I carry it over to compound and people think I'm crazy
So this raises a good question for the crossbow users. Can you safely bare shaft tune a crossbow bolt? Nock tune of course, but flying down the rail with no fletching in the rail system might have some dangerous flight, right? Just curious. Thanks guys.
💪🏽🇺🇸🏹
Look up 1NESTLY on UA-cam he has a high-speed camera recording arrow rotation.
I do feel like nobody wants to help. My bow shop guys pretty cool though. Only time he sort of down talked me was when I picked up my new bow set at 75lbs and 80%. As he was lecturing me about how heavy the draw was I pulled it with ease. He was just like oh shit alright.
I never skip back day.
I do think bow shops push the 100-125gr broadheads to much though. He also questioned how long I wanted my arrows. Like I can always shorten them later. Let me have my long ass arrows. I have a 31" draw.
This has had me rethinking my setup. I have 300 spine 29" rip tkos arrows at like 425gr I believe. Thinking I can up my broadhead from 100gr to 150gr and still use the same setup. Won't quite break 500gr overall but for deer I think I'll be alright. When money's looser I'll break down and build an adult arrow.
I've never not gotten a pass through but I'm a low volume of kills kinda guy. I've definitely passed bucks and does quartered to me. So if this world opens new ethical opportunities up for me I'm game.
You should be good, just bareshaft nock tune your arrows. I got x-impact in 300spine @ 29" to fly straight by just bareshaft nock tuning them using a 200gr point and 75gr insert/ outsert system. I'd say that's pushing the limits lol but it's possible. Definitely bareshaft nock tune every single one of your arrows. You'd be surprised with how much you can change arrow flight by simply turning the nock a tiny bit.
Check out Vector HMR arrows. Great price point, reviews are coming in super positive. Just ordered a set for my first high FOC build.
Ranch fairy got me hooked on 12 factor arrows but I have to say he's wrong on the straight fletch. Im shooting a 730gr arrow set up, they run bullet holes thru paper at any distance with the straight fletch. The advantage of straight fletch is lower noise during arrow flight.... Sorry Ranch, you have missed it on this aspect of hunting arrow build.
What seems to have happened over the course of 25 years or so, we traded arrow weight for speed and flatter trajectory and gave up penetration. What can be done to improve FOC on traditional wooden arrows or should one go with modern arrows?
Many are going with heavier broadheads, lighter fletching/nocks, heavier inserts. When improving FOC for the sake of penetration, keep in mind that FOC is the third most important factor to arrow penetration per the Ashby Foundation that the Troy Fowler (Ranch Fairy) is an officer of. If you increase FOC, the amount that you increase FOC by is dictated/controlled by what maximum point weight (broadhead plus insert weight) your arrow's dynamic spine can maintain perfect arrow flight (factor #2) with. Troy's channel reviews this in more detail, as does Limb Driven TV's youtube channel, which produced a video series for the Ashby foundation. If you want individual coaching, I'd suggest contacting Troy via his email.
Single bevel vs double bevel. Double bevel has to push more mass away to cut. Single bevel has more pressure on a smaller space. And cuts more efficiently. There is less push back from the item being cut.
Also if you fledge to the left but you have a right beveled single bevel it will undo your broadhead That's what they say if you think about it every time you come back from shooting your boat is your practice tip loose
Volkswagen. Back in the 1960s. Engine in the back .
Who makes that flat arrow caddy
Big question? Does the speed degradation of a twizzler decay beyond the limits of what an adult arrow does when shooting through a dense media(animal)? And if so by how much? Hard to measure id imagine, but that would be the nail in the coffin to anyone who could say “yeah but I’m still shooting 260fps and your only shooting 220fps at impact.” I just wonder if a how much energy is lost on all factors (fps, ke, slug, momentum) when shooting both arrows and the comparison. The results would be mind blowing I’d imagine to the people who still hinge on saying speed is better. Love the content!!! 🤯
For the micro arrows they can go more in the shaft if they use the deep six threads. They have the technology but people are just lazy and companies don't want different lines of production
The car was a Corvair.
How about a video on brass annealing?
Shooting 730g. My pins are evenly spaced to 60 yards. 70lbs bow
60 yards lol 730 gr you have so much arch . You can't kill a deer at 30 yards. He will jump your arrow. He walks 5 yards on you . You have at least 12 to 14 inch drop.
@@Life-of-Bluegrass_Music you don't know what you're talking about. They don't jump the string any worse than normal. You comment on shit you've never tried
What arrow diameter does Troy recommend?
I believe that car was a Corvair
This is the same reason long range rifle Shooters don't use lightweight bullets the best long range rifle bullets are long and heavy
Yes but the power of the gun is also comparable they don’t shoot a long heavy bullet out of a 22 if your shooting 60-70 pounds and if you just keep increasing arrow weight with out increased poundage you’ll get to a point where arrow speed drops below 270fps and after that you get diminishing returns on the benefit of weight.
The guy also promotes shooting without a peep sight that tells you all you need to know about his applications accuracy at long distance
What is that arrow case that Eric has?
That is the Plano Arrow Max Arrow Case.
I had the same question haha
Referring to VW beetle perhaps??
What about shooting a ravon r 20 and what broadheads?
@31:09 the math was a little off, it’s 14 lbs not 24 for the light arrow
Feet per second not LBS but yes 14fps not 24fps
Spend $200 get a wicked Edge Pro sharpener you think your blades are scary sharp now you will literally be able to Treetops hair
If you watch Lancaster' Lancaster' done the high speed video you can see the arrow stop in mid flight and the flood seems corrected and spin it back to the right there has been a bunch of testing that if a string is spun clockwise which recorders of a mar that 3/4 of our spine clockwise with clockwise serving there's another guy neother guy nestle one He does it on high speed camera and then Exodus Exodus done it on high speed camera if it's a clockwise twisted string your hairyour arrow will come off to the left If you put a right helicople on that all right off said and offset in mid flight that arrow will stop and the fletching s will take it to the right
Corvair.
Corvair
Sabb
70-56=14
DO NOT CUT YOUR BOWSTRING WITH YOUR BROAD HEAD. Just fyi
Don’t disagree with a lot of the information this guy pushes and if your shooting hogs over feeders and shooting 30 yards max great to have the mass. But missing a massive elephant in the room when it comes to hunting application. The guy is known for pushing heavy arrows and that’s it.
there is a reason that everyone that is known for putting multiple animals on the ground in all types of conditions disagree with him. not on the science of mass and penetration but on what is most practical for a good overall hunting set up.
It's cringing listening to the speaker contuounsily getting interrupted
Pinto
A deers not that hard to target? Tell me that about coues deer. This is why this is not a one size fits all application.
People hunting deer with 600g arrows is pointless ruined tagectory shooting rainbow arrows I'd rather shoot lasers
I blow through shoulders like they're not even there. I haven't had to let a deer walk in years and my average track is around 30 yards. But keep shooting lasers and passing on shots and getting 4" of penetration
Way way overthinking things. 99.99% of shooters would be best served learning to shoot than perfect tuning. For the most part it's like trying to turn a half moa rifle into quarter moa for a 10moa shooter.
10mim chat on 325wsm please fellas from Australia
We'll add it to the idea board - thanks!