Poets v. Prose Writers | Edward Hirsch | Big Think
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- Опубліковано 27 сер 2024
- Poets v. Prose Writers
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Edward Hirsch had too much adrenaline to construct stories.
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Edward Hirsch:
Edward Hirsch's first collection of poems, "For the Sleepwalkers," was published in 1981 and went on to receive the Lavan Younger Poets Award from the Academy of American Poets and the Delmore Schwartz Memorial Award from New York University. His second collection, Wild Gratitude (1986), received the National Book Critics Circle Award. Since then, he has published several books of poems, including "Special Orders" (2008) and "Lay Back the Darkness" (2003). His latest book, "The Living Fire" (2010), his first retrospective collection, selects from each of his seven previous collections, published between 1981 and 2008.
He has been a professor of English at Wayne State University and the University of Houston. Hirsch is currently the president of the John Simon Guggenheim Memorial Foundation, as well as a chancellor of the Academy of American Poets.
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TRANSCRIPT:
Question: Can poets learn from fiction writers?
Edward Hirsch: When I taught at the University of Houston in the Creative Writing program we required the poets to take workshops in fiction writing and we required the fiction writers to take workshops in poetry. And the reason for that is because the fiction writers seemed to need to learn how to pay greater attention to language itself, to the way that language works.
The poets needed to learn to pay greater attention to character and to narrative. That is many poets don’t know how to tell a story and they don’t have a sense of how to put things in order to tell a story and we thought the poets could learn from fiction writers something about developing a character over time who wasn’t just you and also creating a narrative structure. So, I think it’s true that that’s something that poetry can go to school on fiction. I think poetry can go to fiction to learn.
I think the deepest thing is that many fiction writers tell stories but are not elegant writers. But, we’re not writing journalism when we’re making literature. We’re trying to make something that lasts in language and there's no question that many fiction writers began as poets and it’s hard for me to think of any good fiction writers who don’t also read poetry. That fiction writers learn about the development of metaphor, the use of rhythm, the way that language is compacted in order to express the feelings of - express their own feelings and the feelings of their characters. So, I think fiction goes to poetry for the intensity of its use of language.
Question: Have you tried your hand at fiction?
Edward Hirsch: When I was young I did. In fact, when I was young I wrote everything and I thought I would be an all around writer, that I would write everything. When I was in my early 20’s I still had that idea and I wrote an unpublished novel and I wrote a lot of short stories. But what I discovered about myself is that my temperament is so fiery in terms of what I think in literature, that I like so much intensity that too much was happening all the time. It was just like starting with too much adrenaline and you stayed at that adrenaline rush all the time.
Well, it turns out that doesn’t work for fiction. A novel takes place over time. It’s a historical narrative and it needs to have a series of peaks and valleys and the move through. You can’t just start at the highest pitch and stay there, but you can in a lyric poem. And so, I found my temperament is very much drawn to lyric poetry and for the compression of lyric poetry. So, it seems that I have the temperament of a poet, not entirely of a fiction writer.
Question: What words are you looking for as a poet?
Edward Hirsch: There's a debate in the whole history of poetry between the plain style and the golden or ornate style and that poetry is continually in some kind of relationship between these two pulls. Something more baroque and ornate, something more ornamental and something more plainspoken, something simpler. And I feel the tugs of those two traditions in, say, the 17th century or in Spanish baroque poetry or the work of John Donne who I admire very much.
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It is not often that someone can talk uninterrupted for six minutes without me finding something to argue about. You did. I agreed with every word you said, and I felt a passion about it too. Thank you.
Beautiful. I've always had a tendency more towards poetry, rhythm. Not just because it's shorter, but it's like a condensation of reality, a consistent stream of consciousness. There are ups and downs in poetry too of course, but the downs are not as "down" as in a novel, perhaps more like tension and release in music theory, or simply put, a never-ending "bridge". Like the sharpness of mind and clarity you can only experience in a lucid dream.
That was poetry in its self wow
Brightness falls from the air: could have several meanings in my mind. E.g Enlightenment, of a situation. The sign of hope in a bad situation. How a person may make you feel when your around them. An actual example of a landscape. An escape route.
After reading a various genre of book, I found what is the difference between thoses two works of art.
The poet uses word subjectivly and open minded on them (for metaphor or sonority purpose) while writer use them objectivly (action speak louder than words).
Being greatly influenced by poetry, I badly interprete the rule "Show, Don't Tell''. I thought I have to replace ''HourGlass'' by ''Temporal Grain''. I was wrong! It's in the descriptive viewpoint, not in language viewpoint. Writing" hourglass" is more easier and everyone know it is a "hourglass"! Now, I should change the way I write.
My philosophy in writing is: ''Everyword you have are useful! Don't prive them''. Poet and Writer will take this advice differently.
-Poet, being open minded, will use words subjectivly, for the purpose of metaphor or sonority. Example, for Lyre, the Oprhée's intrument, can be defined as: a personal feeling, voice, a music or a tortured soul and it rhyme with the word "Ire", stand for anger.
For them, the beauty speak louder than action. They play with words, pacing, echos, rhyme, picture. Poetry is the art of language.
-Writer will use words objectivly to describe action and emotions, without being vague. He anwser to all questions: When, Where, Who, Why and When. It uses less of metaphors and use simple and easy-to-understand sentence. Story is the art of describing scene, fiction or reality.
If I reach a story-like style, I could write Fan-fictions with no problem!
(I am French, my English is not great)
I just started writing. I love writing poetry but always struggled with prose, and recently I've begun to ask myself: "why?". Your comment cleared up a lot for me. I've also had difficulty with the "show don't tell" concept until I saw another UA-camr rephrase it as "Describe, Don't Explain." Nevertheless, I just wanted to say I appreciated your comment (even though I'm 3 years late). :^)
Your explanation helps tremendously! Thank you my friend
I appreciate this comment.
Word. One of the best videos on writing that can be found on the internet.
He is so right that poets and prose writers should learn from each other. Poets to learn how to write a story and not get caught up only with beautiful language that doesn't take you anywhere, and novelists to embellish their language to give a better experience, it's not all about plot and action.
I think I just have had a eureka moment. Excellent advice, thanks
This man knows what he s talking about! Wow!
This video is so exciting to me!! Thanku again!! 🌺
This has been a crazy, yet awesome, advice!
Incredibly powerful. Poets must be well-rounded and, as Samuel Taylor Coleridge said, androgynous.
Lol androgynous?
a child is hurt society is blind......... a father is hurt and noone can see. The pain that is with all of this is......a stop it should never exist. Care.
Please keep sharing content...I would enjoy your take on...taking your poetic play more serious...whatever that looks like for you.
Brightness falls from the air
I dont think the two can be compared. Poetry is a simple unit that comprises Prose. Prose is dynamic and multidimensional and requires so much writing experience-I've been writing for years and have yet to feel like i perfected a form.
Poetry is not easier to write than prose. People now days are calling anything a poem, that's why some people think that. A great poem takes time, there are experiments with several devices
As an amateur poet, to my mind, poetry is easier to write than prose. But that's probably because I'm not a patient writer, and want to finish my work in 1-5 sessions (excluding the necessary editing part), which I only manage to do while writing a poem. Poetry just comes out of my heart, lightning-fast, without me even noticing. Whereas prose requires a lot of logical thinking, putting your emotions as an author aside, combining plot points into one story like solving a puzzle, creating good and realistic characters, planning and afterwards writing all those words, etc. - all of that eats a lot of time and energy. I made several attempts in creating a bigger work of prose, but failed, not for having a bad idea and characters, but because I wasn't persistent. It's exhausting for me.
Also, in poetry you can be way more dynamic, multidimensional and flexible, than in prose. Unless you are writing poetic prose, which is a mixture of the two.
That's why I think anyone can write a poem - doesn't matter if good or bad - but not everyone can write a novel.
Writing a _great_ poem, or a _great_ novel both take time and effort. But a novel takes more than a poem 100%.
Poetry is not easy. It requires what all art forms require; craft, passion, determination.
Great video! Thank you
I'd like to know what Hirsch thinks about "language" poetry. I wonder if he enjoys Charles Bernstein or Lyn Heijinian or is neither hot nor cold toward that strain of American poetry. Hirsch's own work couldn't be farther from that stylistically, but I wonder if he gets anything out of reading their work.
1:44 I'm not a writer, but I always liked reading novels (perhaps more when I was younger, haha, than these days, but still)...I never liked poetry...I couldn't (and can't) imagine reading poetry for fun...I might see a poem and think it's neat, haha, but read poetry the way you read a novel?...
I wonder what poetic prose novelists and poets feel about this.
Thanku for this video. 🌺
Outstanding.
so true! Thanks
Thank you.
best big think
Thanks
:D
I came hoping to see insta poets dissed.... 😂
Yes yes yes!
someone can tell me who this is please? :)
Edward Hirsch
Interesting.
Rad
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