Bathtub Homicide or the Worst Juries Ever? | Ryan Widmer Case Analysis
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- Опубліковано 13 лип 2024
- This video answers the question: Can I analyze the case of Ryan Widmer?
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My auntie died while in the bathtub. My uncle had to break the bathroom door open to get to her when she wasn't answering and water was flooding out. He was looked at by police until the examiner's results came through showing cause of death was an aneurysm. Scary to think how that could have gone had it been something less detectable.
Edit: Spelling
@@erdelegy 🤣...Same.
That's terrible! Glad he wasn't accused!
@@dallasoch4040
Pretty sure he was accused
Jen, I am so sorry about your auntie. How is your uncle holding up, and how are you holding up? Hope y’all are well 💚
@@xXxAngelicKratosxXx That is so sweet. Thank you. We are all well but miss her much. It's been almost ten years now. Uncle is living a good life but never remarried. I don't think he wants to. She was his person.
Anyone who says “ they can tell guilt” just by looking should be dismissed immediately
That third jury is exactly why I hate when anybody says they can tell who's guilty (or innocent) by looking at them. Lots of UA-cam posters seem to feel the same way.
Good point
its a common narcissistic trait to believe one is psychic.
@@jhoughjr1
Or just common Dunning-Kruger phenomenon
Reminds me of that west Memphis 3 case. It’s crazy that your life can end up in the hands of such ignorant people.
I'm surprised they wouldn't just replace jury members who make statements like that. It's basically the same as declaring they aren't going to take their role seriously
I have epilepsy and my rule is: If I don't have a certified lifeguard watching me or a life vest then you don't EVER take a bath!!!
So do I.
I shower sitting down in the tub.
I thought this too!
Wow, never heard of this one. It could have been me once i think. My wife had had some drinks and went to bed mad at me. Later in the night I found her fully clothed, in a running bathtub. She only awoke when i shook her. She still can't explain why she wanted to go to sleep in full bath, dressed in pajamas.
That is so scary. A drunk person can pull off some amazing feats. Shit people who haven't dealt with it would never believe.
@@cht2162 🤣
I had an ex that would pass out drunk in the bathtub... It was decades ago, her family thought it was funny even though she had been involved in a drunk driving incident and been severely injured in a roll over. Part of denial possibly, some families are alcoholic even in their teens... The big joke was that she was covered in vomit... No thought that she could have choked...
🏃♂️ 🏃 🏃♀️ I ran soon enough, even though she was super cute and intelligent, great choice she married another alcoholic that set their house on fire 🔥
Wow, thanks for sharing your personal experience. Adds some more light to this case.
@@andykerr3803 Wow. You’re lucky you left.
I have a condition called MCAS (Mast Cell Activation Syndrome). It’s rarely diagnosed, not terrifically well understood yet, but in milder form is quite common. It can cause what we colloquially call a ‘Masto Coma’. MCAS can cause repeated anaphylaxis, and sudden, intense need for sleep. Intense enough that I have friends who have fallen asleep on a park bench and woken up in hospital. I have anaphylaxis to sudden temperature changes, and I can’t take a bath or full shower because I will go into shock. I also go into full blown anaphylaxis from fragrances. If the wife had a similar disorder, she easily could have reacted to a new scent, or had a temperature reaction and drowned in that bathtub. I think the fact that she did have something going on medically is key.
Maybe..
How did you get diagnosis?
Karen - Thank you for sharing with us ( the peanut gallery!) These cases always show us a different side of what people are going through. Best wishes for comfort and safety!💐
@@itsagoodday2165 I had an odd rash on my leg and I went through pages and pages of pictures on the internet. I finally saw ‘my rash’ and it said MCAS. The moment I looked it up I knew that that’s what i had. Took a few years to convince my doctors, and I had to go to the US to confirm the diagnosis. I was accused of faking my illness for a while, it was rough.
@@karenneill9109 oh in US most docs also think you are faking it. I am glad you were able to not give up, having endometriosis, have been blamed for faking the pain to it’s just a bad period. Have hive all of a sudden after traveling to another state. Took prednisone and stopped without tapering per my doc, have extreme pain in my joints. So don’t know if that’s what caused it.
Terrifying tp think a juror deciding your fate would put made up merit on a dog barking ,which naturally means someone must be on the floor.
I would like to think that if I was unresponsive in a bathtub and my spouse was having a DefCon-4 freak-out over my corpse, my dogs would be concerned enough to bark, as well!
So, I don't want this to come across as accusing or critical of your write-up, but I feel like we should at least consider the facts that were presented to a jury. This kind of makes it sound like the argument was, "Well, (shrug) what else could it be?" And I completely, 100% understand the argument that the facts aren't enough to overcome reasonable doubt. I think I lean that way myself. So this comment isn't so much arguing for his guilt; I just want to make sure people understand that they weren't weighing whether or not she fell asleep in the tub.
He claimed she was face-down in the tub.
In his initial 911 call, he told them that she "fell asleep" and drowned and he "thought she was dead." He said he found her face down in the tub, and he had not moved her at the time he called 911. He apparently did not get her out of the tub until asked to do so. This position is not consistent with someone slipping under the water after falling asleep. And - in fact - when his family had reached out to a show after his conviction, their investigator concluded he had lied in his 911 call. Bizarrely, he told this investigator that he had found her face up, initially denying that he'd ever said she was face down. He later admitted that his initial story had her face down, but still claimed she was face up. This is an oddity that is a bit more than an "inconsistency." source
For another inconsistency, he told 911 that she falls asleep in the tub "all the time." After she was declared dead at the hospital, he told a detective that he "was afraid she may fall asleep in the tub." When the detective asked if that had ever happened before, he said, "no, she had never fallen asleep in the tub before, but Sarah would fall asleep easily."
Her body was not wet. The tub was not wet. The floor was not wet.
This is important, because it was noted by multiple people. The EMTs said her body was dry and only her hair was damp. They did not notice any pruning on her fingers. They also did not notice any damage to her fingernails and manicure. Detectives arrived at the scene as the ambulance left. They noted that the tub was not wet. It had a few water droplets around the drain, but it was otherwise dry. The towels were not wet. The floor was not wet. A magazine, a bathmat and discarded clothes lying on the bathroom floor were all dry.
A lot has been made about how her body seemed weirdly dry, and the first conviction was thrown out when it was discovered that some jurors timed how long it took their own bodies to dry after getting out of a bath. They concluded that it was impossible for that to happen in 3 and a half minutes. But this is considered a juror doing independent research, and that's why the first conviction was thrown out. source Yes, this is misconduct, and it was proper that the first conviction was thrown out, but I think it's also helpful for us to understand that "misconduct" does not mean they were wrong about the facts. In the source listed in the previous section, a TV show also performed this test, with a woman getting out of a bath and air drying for 8 and a half minutes. She was still wet. He claims he pulled the plug on the bath tub (and didn't try to remove her or anything), and that is why she wasn't as wet. But again, he also claims he called 911 immediately, and he was unable to pick her up because she was too slippery. He also said he drained the tub during the 911 call.
In addition to everything being dry, the TV was on a different channel than the Bengals game, and there were bath products lined up on the edge of the tub. source
She had a head contusion, scalp injuries, petechial hemorrhaging in her eye, cuts to her upper lip, and deep hemorrhaging in her internal neck (and a lot of smaller abrasions and contusions, including in her armpit)
His defense claims these were caused by CPR and intubation, and medical examiners disagree on whether neck bruising and hemorrhaging could be caused by the efforts to save her. CPR does not typically injure the neck, but they did try to intubate her. The question is whether she was alive when EMTs first arrived, I guess. For what it's worth, Emergency responders noted that she did not have a pulse and she wasn't breathing when they first arrived. He also believed she was dead when he first found her. For the CPR and intubation to cause hemorrhaging, she would still need to have been alive when they arrived. Petechial Hemorrhaging typically occurs when pressure is placed on the neck. On the other side of this, drowning victims have been resuscitated after breathing has stopped. I think this is too advanced for anyone other than medical examiners who have seen her autopsy/autopsy photos to call.
Blood and fecal matter were found on the bedroom carpet in locations that did not match with where EMT placed her
This is getting into the weeds a little bit, but the first responders moved her to the bedroom for treatment. [Edit, correction here, first responders never saw her in the bathroom. Widmer had moved her body to the bedroom before they arrived. The first person on the scene found her lying on the bedroom floor, her body was warm and dry, but her hair was wet. She had no pulse and wasn't breathing. He also did not notice any clear external injuries, though]. When investigators went back to take samples from the area, there was blood and fecal matter in the area where her head had been laid. Fecal matter was also found in a different area, near where she was laid, but not exactly there. The blood is pretty easy to explain, because first responders also noted frothy blood leaking from her mouth while giving her treatment. Fecal matter is a different story, though. There was no fecal matter found near where her genitals would have been when she received treatment. I'm not sure if this is where the theory came about that he drowned her in the toilet. I gather it wasn't used at his last trial, but I'm only getting that from some of his assertions in his appeal. The other possibility is that a violent event started in the bedroom and then moved to the bathroom. [edit: Or that she didn't actually die in the bathroom at all, but rather after she had already left the bath.]
I've not seen what his Defense makes of this piece of evidence.
He was visiting Adult Friend Finder before her death
I normally wouldn't mention this, because someone looking at porn is not a motive to kill a spouse. But Adult Friend Finder is not just porn; it is also used to hook up with real people. Luckily, his Defense was successful in prohibiting this from being shown at trial, so the juries were unaware of this. The prosecution couldn't prove that Sarah knew he was trying to hook up with people on the site, so they were not allowed to present it as evidence. I only bring this up because the OP mentions that he was only seeking out other women 2 years after her death. There is evidence to the contrary. But it was correctly prohibited from his trial.
Now, does all of this overcome reasonable doubt? I'm not sure. Again, I didn't write this comment to argue for his guilt, even though it may appear that way. It's more that I wanted a fuller story for how 3 separate juries were unable to arrive at a not-guilty verdict. Even with these facts, I'm not sure I could overcome reasonable doubt in a court of law, though it would be interesting to read the trial transcripts. But a lot of the comments here seem to think this is about whether or not someone can fall asleep and drown in the tub. The juries heard a very different set of facts. It's not so much that they couldn't think of any other explanation. It's that he was "inconsistent" on some material, basic facts. The physical evidence didn't match his description of events, and her injuries were more than some light bruising in her neck.
The fact that there was no sign of a struggle makes it really hard to believe that he was guilty. Honestly shocked that he was found guilty, there's practically zero evidence.
Its frightening how the absence of evidence can be so damning. How the hell does one defend oneself in that case...
Hilarious.. I’d be honored to flip the switch. Sometimes you have to use common sense.
@@cplmpcocptcl6306 you’d kill a man on your gut? I pray you’re never on a jury.
I went to school with her. There was evidence that he murdered her. There was bruising around her neck. Sorry he's guilty
I agree. I would have found him innocent.
“Ryan was a punk and they could tell he was guilty just by looking at him.”….great jurors
That is funny… I actually got out of jury duty when they interviewed me by saying just that…
You know I can tell they’re guilty just by looking at um..🤣🤣😐🤣🤣
I cannot even identify a punk by looking at him
Btw is this a game or what where murderers have to appear in a "punk way" so jurors can do their job easily
@@mohanbhartiya2705 🌵
@@mohanbhartiya2705 🪁
Vanna - This is your shortest comment! I was hoping for more!😕😍
This guy needs to be set free. The jury's logic is insane!
The question is who makes up the jurors? Most are not educated citizens
@@mpalmer7800 Plenty of them are educated. But they're still terrible at critical thinking and prone to emotional biases.
I think, not sure, judges can override a jury ? That’s probably incorrect but if it’s possible then the judge should have. I’m not sure his lawyer was the type of personality to make a jury listen. Seemed a bit dull.
He needs to stay in jail.
@@fishtrout9424 Even though there’s massive reasonable doubt. 🙄
Sarah had multiple symptoms of some kind of neurological disorder. But Ryan did change his story which is troubling. This was either a stupid murder (as they all are!) or a very sad set of circumstances which ended in a grief stricken man accused of a crime he did not commit! I'm glad I was not on any of those juries!
I honestly would rather see a guilty man go free than an innocent man go behind bars for life I think. No way would I have convicted this guy.
Her jaw being "stuck" could also be attributed to a seizure. What an ignorant jury!
Maybe or could be low iron, I used to sleep everywhere too! I don't take baths much mainly showers and when my iron level was 6mcg I used to nearly fall asleep standing up in the shower! I was just so tired all the time, I barely functioned and I am lucky something bad didn't happen.
But if you had been on the jury you could have prevented a guilty verdict. I hate jury duty because it’s always something stupid and boring. In a case like this at least you would feel like you are making a difference.
@@mrs.elentz2336 Same here.
I served as a juror on a 3 day trial. The defendant was charged with possession and distribution of methamphetamine and defacing a fire arm. Our jury ended up being mostly working professionals who chose to serve our community. We all took vigorous notes and reviewed evidence several times in deliberation. We found the defendant not guilty on all charges. Unfortunately in most cases there is a de-evolution of the jury where most ppl with a career and family who are independent opt out or purposely disqualify themselves. Leaving uneducated people who lack employment and education left over. Often these people jump to illogical conclusions, and give a high level of trust to authority such as the State. I really urge people to think for a second and ask yourself, if you were on trial what type of jury do you want judging you. Please take jury duty seriously to help prevent cases like this.
VERY well said
I did jury duty several years ago on a murder case. We were sequestered for 3 weeks. We all needed therapy after that. It was mentally exhausting, and crazy being cut off from the world so abruptly like we were. However, the defendant was found not guilty, mainly due to the state's lack of evidence to prove reasonable doubt.. and you are spot-on with what you said! I'm a hardworking professional that certainly had no time doing jury duty on such a high profile case, not being paid, and cut off from the world for over 3 weeks. LOL at the end of the day, I look back at it, and I don't regret it. ❤️
@@BackyardButcher
That's awesome!!
Ryan is guilty. You're a white collar snob.
I agree. The worst and best experience was jury duty. I worked for government and received full pay. The deliberations were influenced by people not getting paid pressuring those getting paid to change vote. If more people served duty then maybe pay increase for duty would occur. But the system is setup to ignore or incarcerate low income no education. Founding fathers were elites who loved British class system. If you claim not to be discriminatory then serve. Change to system means you have to participate.
The jury system worries me. This case is an example of why.
Yup. Casey Anthony is another
Oj
Yup. A bunch of average idiots deciding over your fate. And the guy who studied it, went to law school and is familiar with a lot of forensic science due to his year long experience just reads what the little bit of paper says. I would be furious if I were a judge.
The judge system is also worrying. One person, with their biases, controlling your fate? Nah I'd take my chances with a jury. Also usually a defendant gets to choose between a jury vs judge only trial.
@@bthomson OJ was a total case in point. What a gross miscarriage of justice.
People's assumption that all mystery-solving crime shows are based in reality probably doesn't help these sorts of situations, as some of those jurors sounded like they were trying to be Sherlock Holmes, putting weird, nonsense clues together. Thank you for the video.
god help me of i need an american jury to set me free. wow
@@tankthearc9875 In Canada jury trials are very limited in only certain cases brought by the state. It's the same in Europe, et al. Jury trials are not like by "the system" as they can go sideways fast, and judges DO NOT LIKE juries in Canada. It's quite rare.
Yeah, these jurors were ridiculous. The dog thing? If that’s not assuming facts not in evidence, I don’t know what is. Unbelievable.
So, I don't want this to come across as accusing or critical of your write-up, but I feel like we should at least consider the facts that were presented to a jury. This kind of makes it sound like the argument was, "Well, (shrug) what else could it be?" And I completely, 100% understand the argument that the facts aren't enough to overcome reasonable doubt. I think I lean that way myself. So this comment isn't so much arguing for his guilt; I just want to make sure people understand that they weren't weighing whether or not she fell asleep in the tub.
He claimed she was face-down in the tub.
In his initial 911 call, he told them that she "fell asleep" and drowned and he "thought she was dead." He said he found her face down in the tub, and he had not moved her at the time he called 911. He apparently did not get her out of the tub until asked to do so. This position is not consistent with someone slipping under the water after falling asleep. And - in fact - when his family had reached out to a show after his conviction, their investigator concluded he had lied in his 911 call. Bizarrely, he told this investigator that he had found her face up, initially denying that he'd ever said she was face down. He later admitted that his initial story had her face down, but still claimed she was face up. This is an oddity that is a bit more than an "inconsistency." source
For another inconsistency, he told 911 that she falls asleep in the tub "all the time." After she was declared dead at the hospital, he told a detective that he "was afraid she may fall asleep in the tub." When the detective asked if that had ever happened before, he said, "no, she had never fallen asleep in the tub before, but Sarah would fall asleep easily."
Her body was not wet. The tub was not wet. The floor was not wet.
This is important, because it was noted by multiple people. The EMTs said her body was dry and only her hair was damp. They did not notice any pruning on her fingers. They also did not notice any damage to her fingernails and manicure. Detectives arrived at the scene as the ambulance left. They noted that the tub was not wet. It had a few water droplets around the drain, but it was otherwise dry. The towels were not wet. The floor was not wet. A magazine, a bathmat and discarded clothes lying on the bathroom floor were all dry.
A lot has been made about how her body seemed weirdly dry, and the first conviction was thrown out when it was discovered that some jurors timed how long it took their own bodies to dry after getting out of a bath. They concluded that it was impossible for that to happen in 3 and a half minutes. But this is considered a juror doing independent research, and that's why the first conviction was thrown out. source Yes, this is misconduct, and it was proper that the first conviction was thrown out, but I think it's also helpful for us to understand that "misconduct" does not mean they were wrong about the facts. In the source listed in the previous section, a TV show also performed this test, with a woman getting out of a bath and air drying for 8 and a half minutes. She was still wet. He claims he pulled the plug on the bath tub (and didn't try to remove her or anything), and that is why she wasn't as wet. But again, he also claims he called 911 immediately, and he was unable to pick her up because she was too slippery. He also said he drained the tub during the 911 call.
In addition to everything being dry, the TV was on a different channel than the Bengals game, and there were bath products lined up on the edge of the tub. source
She had a head contusion, scalp injuries, petechial hemorrhaging in her eye, cuts to her upper lip, and deep hemorrhaging in her internal neck (and a lot of smaller abrasions and contusions, including in her armpit)
His defense claims these were caused by CPR and intubation, and medical examiners disagree on whether neck bruising and hemorrhaging could be caused by the efforts to save her. CPR does not typically injure the neck, but they did try to intubate her. The question is whether she was alive when EMTs first arrived, I guess. For what it's worth, Emergency responders noted that she did not have a pulse and she wasn't breathing when they first arrived. He also believed she was dead when he first found her. For the CPR and intubation to cause hemorrhaging, she would still need to have been alive when they arrived. Petechial Hemorrhaging typically occurs when pressure is placed on the neck. On the other side of this, drowning victims have been resuscitated after breathing has stopped. I think this is too advanced for anyone other than medical examiners who have seen her autopsy/autopsy photos to call.
Blood and fecal matter were found on the bedroom carpet in locations that did not match with where EMT placed her
This is getting into the weeds a little bit, but the first responders moved her to the bedroom for treatment. [Edit, correction here, first responders never saw her in the bathroom. Widmer had moved her body to the bedroom before they arrived. The first person on the scene found her lying on the bedroom floor, her body was warm and dry, but her hair was wet. She had no pulse and wasn't breathing. He also did not notice any clear external injuries, though]. When investigators went back to take samples from the area, there was blood and fecal matter in the area where her head had been laid. Fecal matter was also found in a different area, near where she was laid, but not exactly there. The blood is pretty easy to explain, because first responders also noted frothy blood leaking from her mouth while giving her treatment. Fecal matter is a different story, though. There was no fecal matter found near where her genitals would have been when she received treatment. I'm not sure if this is where the theory came about that he drowned her in the toilet. I gather it wasn't used at his last trial, but I'm only getting that from some of his assertions in his appeal. The other possibility is that a violent event started in the bedroom and then moved to the bathroom. [edit: Or that she didn't actually die in the bathroom at all, but rather after she had already left the bath.]
I've not seen what his Defense makes of this piece of evidence.
He was visiting Adult Friend Finder before her death
I normally wouldn't mention this, because someone looking at porn is not a motive to kill a spouse. But Adult Friend Finder is not just porn; it is also used to hook up with real people. Luckily, his Defense was successful in prohibiting this from being shown at trial, so the juries were unaware of this. The prosecution couldn't prove that Sarah knew he was trying to hook up with people on the site, so they were not allowed to present it as evidence. I only bring this up because the OP mentions that he was only seeking out other women 2 years after her death. There is evidence to the contrary. But it was correctly prohibited from his trial.
Now, does all of this overcome reasonable doubt? I'm not sure. Again, I didn't write this comment to argue for his guilt, even though it may appear that way. It's more that I wanted a fuller story for how 3 separate juries were unable to arrive at a not-guilty verdict. Even with these facts, I'm not sure I could overcome reasonable doubt in a court of law, though it would be interesting to read the trial transcripts. But a lot of the comments here seem to think this is about whether or not someone can fall asleep and drown in the tub. The juries heard a very different set of facts. It's not so much that they couldn't think of any other explanation. It's that he was "inconsistent" on some material, basic facts. The physical evidence didn't match his description of events, and her injuries were more than some light bruising in her neck.
If I'm ever up before a jury on unjust charges, I want Dr Grande to be both my jury selection consultant and the person who delivers the closing argument for the defense.
A prosecutor would ask, "Dr. Grande, have you ever tasted Mountain Dew or are you just speculating?"
I think Mountain Dew tastes nice in reality and by the legal standard.
@@matiaanjansenvanrensburg771 I think it tastes like radioactive, heavily-sugared, concentrated urine collected from a diabetic.
I do like its many different unique flavors, though.
This video has so many funny moments for such a messed up situation. Thank you Dr. Grande
Dr. Grandre showed that he's humorous in a serious way.
Can’t believe this guy was found guilty it’s unbelievable
If we have it on record that a juror said the defendant “didn’t prove his innocence” that sounds like grounds for a mistrial. People also don’t kill loved ones without reason. The lack of motive is a major deciding factor for me to think this man is innocent.
Some people have fits of rage. They could have had a fight without anyone on the outside knowing it. He also may have thought the life insurance his wife had applie foe a couple weeks before was already in effect.
@@debbielockhart7762 I’ll grant you that any number of these things COULD be the case. But there isn’t any evidence of him having fits of rage before, and the life insurance policy wasn’t in effect. Could be true isn’t a good enough standard to convict a man of such a serious crime, I feel.
Some people who like baths will wipe the tub with Lysol (or something similar) and rinse it clean before they get in. That sounds like a more reasonable explanation for why a crumpled up wipe was in the corner of the bathroom.
The only thing I know for sure in this case is that this was an unsafe conviction. There is ample room for reasonable doubt here but as usual, jurors don’t think about it this way and just convict with their gut feelings.
Gut feelings are the worst kind of evidence.
They seem obviously to have forgotten the innocent till proven part!
He would have been better off of he could have pleaded to an Alford plea
@@julietteoscaralphanovember2223 the alford plea sucks tho, there's a video about it made by vox, I recommend it honestly
You can't speak for this jury, and the judge gave then specific rules and guidance about the case regarding deliberation. Dr grande doesn't know all of the evidence presented, how it was presented, the credibility of any witnesses etc.
Just because you don't agree with the verdict doesn't necessarily mean the jury got it wrong. The defense chooses the jury. So be it.
This case shows the power of assumption as opposed to simple logic....thank you Dr Grande for this analysis 👌
So, I don't want this to come across as accusing or critical of your write-up, but I feel like we should at least consider the facts that were presented to a jury. This kind of makes it sound like the argument was, "Well, (shrug) what else could it be?" And I completely, 100% understand the argument that the facts aren't enough to overcome reasonable doubt. I think I lean that way myself. So this comment isn't so much arguing for his guilt; I just want to make sure people understand that they weren't weighing whether or not she fell asleep in the tub.
He claimed she was face-down in the tub.
In his initial 911 call, he told them that she "fell asleep" and drowned and he "thought she was dead." He said he found her face down in the tub, and he had not moved her at the time he called 911. He apparently did not get her out of the tub until asked to do so. This position is not consistent with someone slipping under the water after falling asleep. And - in fact - when his family had reached out to a show after his conviction, their investigator concluded he had lied in his 911 call. Bizarrely, he told this investigator that he had found her face up, initially denying that he'd ever said she was face down. He later admitted that his initial story had her face down, but still claimed she was face up. This is an oddity that is a bit more than an "inconsistency." source
For another inconsistency, he told 911 that she falls asleep in the tub "all the time." After she was declared dead at the hospital, he told a detective that he "was afraid she may fall asleep in the tub." When the detective asked if that had ever happened before, he said, "no, she had never fallen asleep in the tub before, but Sarah would fall asleep easily."
Her body was not wet. The tub was not wet. The floor was not wet.
This is important, because it was noted by multiple people. The EMTs said her body was dry and only her hair was damp. They did not notice any pruning on her fingers. They also did not notice any damage to her fingernails and manicure. Detectives arrived at the scene as the ambulance left. They noted that the tub was not wet. It had a few water droplets around the drain, but it was otherwise dry. The towels were not wet. The floor was not wet. A magazine, a bathmat and discarded clothes lying on the bathroom floor were all dry.
A lot has been made about how her body seemed weirdly dry, and the first conviction was thrown out when it was discovered that some jurors timed how long it took their own bodies to dry after getting out of a bath. They concluded that it was impossible for that to happen in 3 and a half minutes. But this is considered a juror doing independent research, and that's why the first conviction was thrown out. source Yes, this is misconduct, and it was proper that the first conviction was thrown out, but I think it's also helpful for us to understand that "misconduct" does not mean they were wrong about the facts. In the source listed in the previous section, a TV show also performed this test, with a woman getting out of a bath and air drying for 8 and a half minutes. She was still wet. He claims he pulled the plug on the bath tub (and didn't try to remove her or anything), and that is why she wasn't as wet. But again, he also claims he called 911 immediately, and he was unable to pick her up because she was too slippery. He also said he drained the tub during the 911 call.
In addition to everything being dry, the TV was on a different channel than the Bengals game, and there were bath products lined up on the edge of the tub. source
She had a head contusion, scalp injuries, petechial hemorrhaging in her eye, cuts to her upper lip, and deep hemorrhaging in her internal neck (and a lot of smaller abrasions and contusions, including in her armpit)
His defense claims these were caused by CPR and intubation, and medical examiners disagree on whether neck bruising and hemorrhaging could be caused by the efforts to save her. CPR does not typically injure the neck, but they did try to intubate her. The question is whether she was alive when EMTs first arrived, I guess. For what it's worth, Emergency responders noted that she did not have a pulse and she wasn't breathing when they first arrived. He also believed she was dead when he first found her. For the CPR and intubation to cause hemorrhaging, she would still need to have been alive when they arrived. Petechial Hemorrhaging typically occurs when pressure is placed on the neck. On the other side of this, drowning victims have been resuscitated after breathing has stopped. I think this is too advanced for anyone other than medical examiners who have seen her autopsy/autopsy photos to call.
Blood and fecal matter were found on the bedroom carpet in locations that did not match with where EMT placed her
This is getting into the weeds a little bit, but the first responders moved her to the bedroom for treatment. [Edit, correction here, first responders never saw her in the bathroom. Widmer had moved her body to the bedroom before they arrived. The first person on the scene found her lying on the bedroom floor, her body was warm and dry, but her hair was wet. She had no pulse and wasn't breathing. He also did not notice any clear external injuries, though]. When investigators went back to take samples from the area, there was blood and fecal matter in the area where her head had been laid. Fecal matter was also found in a different area, near where she was laid, but not exactly there. The blood is pretty easy to explain, because first responders also noted frothy blood leaking from her mouth while giving her treatment. Fecal matter is a different story, though. There was no fecal matter found near where her genitals would have been when she received treatment. I'm not sure if this is where the theory came about that he drowned her in the toilet. I gather it wasn't used at his last trial, but I'm only getting that from some of his assertions in his appeal. The other possibility is that a violent event started in the bedroom and then moved to the bathroom. [edit: Or that she didn't actually die in the bathroom at all, but rather after she had already left the bath.]
I've not seen what his Defense makes of this piece of evidence.
He was visiting Adult Friend Finder before her death
I normally wouldn't mention this, because someone looking at porn is not a motive to kill a spouse. But Adult Friend Finder is not just porn; it is also used to hook up with real people. Luckily, his Defense was successful in prohibiting this from being shown at trial, so the juries were unaware of this. The prosecution couldn't prove that Sarah knew he was trying to hook up with people on the site, so they were not allowed to present it as evidence. I only bring this up because the OP mentions that he was only seeking out other women 2 years after her death. There is evidence to the contrary. But it was correctly prohibited from his trial.
Now, does all of this overcome reasonable doubt? I'm not sure. Again, I didn't write this comment to argue for his guilt, even though it may appear that way. It's more that I wanted a fuller story for how 3 separate juries were unable to arrive at a not-guilty verdict. Even with these facts, I'm not sure I could overcome reasonable doubt in a court of law, though it would be interesting to read the trial transcripts. But a lot of the comments here seem to think this is about whether or not someone can fall asleep and drown in the tub. The juries heard a very different set of facts. It's not so much that they couldn't think of any other explanation. It's that he was "inconsistent" on some material, basic facts. The physical evidence didn't match his description of events, and her injuries were more than some light bruising in her neck.
He needs a new trial and I have no idea why “the innocence project” or something similar hasn’t acted to get him out of prison.
He’s had 3 trials.
They should have put him on the stand.
Sounds like the perfect storm of incompetent jurors 🤦🏽♀️
I haven't had my blood boil this much in quite a while. Those jurors should be banned from driving, switching channels, filing applications and going to the toilet unsupervised.
I think they could have voted either way, also blame a very poor defense.
Experimentation related to a British case proved that it was possible to submerge a victim very quickly by suddenly pulling up on the legs. The victim automatically inhales as they go under, so no sign of a struggle. (The policewoman helping with the experiment had to be resuscitated.)
In a bathtub?
@@troy3456789 Yep. George Joseph Smith, the Brides in the Bath murders. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Joseph_Smith. It’s in the section called Solution
Very interesting!
George Joseph Smith, a serial killer in the early 1900s. drowned his brides for life insurance money. known as the brides in the bath. of course, how he figured out how to do this is the only mystery.
You know, that makes sense.
I laughed more at some of the content near the end of this episode more than any other Dr Grande video I’ve seen before 😂😂😂
The biggest indicator of Ryan’s innocence, in my opinion? The fact that he rejected the offer to only serve 5 years. That’s pretty substantial.
Yeh this is a hard one to call. Honestly at first I thought he did it but the no signs of a struggle at all really seals it for me. Unless he somehow slipped something in her system before she went in but they didn’t find any drugs. She honestly prob had some rare medical thing at the wrong time. I just can’t imagine going to sleep and drowning without waking up while it’s happening. But people do fall asleep driving which I also don’t understand.
Falling asleep driving and crashing a car doesn't seem strange to me. I can see people letting their guard down especially when you are looking at the same road for hours on end and you do it without incident for years....people get desensitized to the dangers. Falling asleep and not waking up during a drowning seems absurd on the other hand.
Yes! You'd think the jury could see all this too!
Oh dude I'll fall asleep driving EASILY. If I drive when I'm tired at all I have to drink an energy drink and sometimes literally slap myself in the face to spike adrenaline. I've woken up on the road before and it's terrifying.
@@cht2162 I got you bro
@@cht2162 🤣😂😳
Excellent!
In 2021 I had a friend who has always been in amazing shape, he was 35 and died in a hot tub after having a seizure, the other people there had gone inside to dry off not knowing he was still in the hot tub, never mind that he had died, it only took about 10 minutes for someone to realize he was missing then they found him in the hot tub.
A hot tub is a different shape (deeper) than a regular bath tub. A hot tub is almost like a small swimming pool and easier to drown in.
@@olilumgbalu5653 this was a deep oval tub not standard tub
How does this guy get 15 years to life and a woman like Casey Anthony get a not guilty verdict for killing her own daughter, lady justice is truly blindfolded sometimes.
it all depends on the jury and the defense
“Prolonged QT”
As a medic I’ve never heard anyone say that before. Well done Doc 👍
What a very sad and mysterious case! I was very anxious to hear your analysis on this one, sad that there are still no real answers for her death!
I had to laugh when you were talking about how dogs are so afraid of baths, then making the comment "When dogs see someone brave enough to conquer "bathtub fear", they are like, let's followthis guy." 🐕😅
Great video Dr. Grande!
I used to trick my doggo into the bath by telling her there was a cat in there.dont know what annoyed her more the lack of cats or the bath. Thank you again for an interesting and honest evaluation of this case.
I use to do something similar with my dachshund. He would sleep in my bed and my husband and I would look under the sheets and tease him by saying 'where's the badgers' , he would sniff around the sheets and look all cute trying to find them UNTIL we would be at work and my dog would tear and shred up our sheets. Totally our fault, he was looking for badgers to keep himself busy while we weren't home!
I think Dwight Schrute was a juror
“It is better to imprison 100 innocent men than let one guilty person go free”
Another thorough analysis with great points. The lethal pay differentiation was hilarious. Thanks Dr G😉🤍🤍
Zena - Maybe back in the 1950s a man might really be bothered by this discrepancy - But today?🤔
@@bthomson True but I do think some men are bothered by it. That was a poor defense regardless, along with the other ones. Hope all well with you 😊🌼🌻🌼🌻
Doing great! Thanks for asking!💐
@@bthomson Good! Very welcome💙🍹
You were on a roll with this one, Dr. Grande. I was cracking up.
Horrible that someone could be convicted without evidence, but of course that's par for the course
The comments of some of those jurors is very troubling. In my opinion, the comments of those jurors highlight the fact that the greatest threat to personal health and safety faced by most of us on a daily basis is the fact that we are surrounded by ignorant, gullible, credulous fools.
This is what you get if you have an antiquated jury system. So thankful I don't live in the US.
I had to audibly laugh at the bathtub bit. This case is one of the most unique I've heard. And as usual, the writing is pure gold.
I love your videos! Especially your jokes and the way in which they are delivered 🤣
Hello Dr. G! Just home from work and what is waiting for me? Another upload!! You are SO consistent with such GOOD quality videos it's mind boggling
Yes! Dr. Grande did an “Intriguing” joke at the end. I love those and only yesterday expressed a desire in the comments that he would do more of them. :D
When people use other people’s personal demons against them, I feel all kinds of shivers over it. It makes me hate people.
Eating breakfast + watching Dr. Grande. My morning routine.
But it's not breakfast time. I live in America, so everything revolves around us.
@@dsadad21 🤣😂🤣
Wow Dr Grande, you are so smart. The way you figure out things just blows my mind
Common sense and hard work along with a great voice and formal education! Perfect!💎
The Total Recall joke got me good 😂
I live in the area and remember this case well. Absolutely insane. Ryan is innocent.
Lol. So guilty. Then this creep used the “FreeRyanWidmer” website as his own personal dating site while he was still on trial for his first murder. He even got one of them pregnant and has a child with her. 😂
None of those things means he killed his wife and is forsure not evidence.
It could be he was lonely and twisted up and wanted comfort seems like he’s human but it forsure doesn’t mean he’s a murderer.
Thank you so much, Dr. Grande. May I request that you analyze the Dr. Martin MacNeill case in Pleasant Grove, Utah? That case has layer after layer of sickness, insanity and outright evil. You could easily do a three-part series on this particular case.
P.S. Utah has an endless supply of bizarre and horrific cases.
I live in Ohio and unfortunately people in this state don’t pay attention, twist shit, misunderstand a lot of stuff told to them, etc. I think the jury botched this given my knowledge of how folks act and think out here. I’ve also served on multiple jury panels myself and I’d be looking at some of them praying they don’t get called up for one.
It's not just Ohio. Been on the internet recently? 🤪
Having grown up in Ohio I gotta say there's an above average number of confident idiots in the state.
@@rubixcubeiam5365 It’s worse here in Ohio though. This is why we’re known as the Alabama/Mississippi of the Midwest, lol! They’re dumb as hell here in Ohio and irritating too.
I usually find your analyses to be insightful and enlightening; however, there is a point of contention that I feel I must comment upon.
Mountain Dew is delicious. 😋😄
😂😂😂
He might have taken the plea deal if they had mentioned the Mountain Dew and burgers.
Nice
Especially Baja Blast from 🌮 🔔 ‼️
Your Humor is on FIRE Today!!! Always Insightful & Entertaining😻
“…this would’ve meant that Sara was angry and wanted to leave; she told Ryan that she was going to leave, but first she decided that she was going to take a bath.” LOL! Excellent.
From Greater Cincinnati. I followed the case and agree 100% with you Dr. Grande. He was not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, but may likely have done it.
Thank you Dr. Grande. Your measured analysis brings clarity to the cases you cover.
I’ve been knowing about this case for a while and it haunts me because I do think Ryan is innocent. I agree with your assessment Dr Grande. No proof whatsoever that a crime was committed. Also no motive. I think she had a seizure and fell in unconscious. My heart goes out to Ryan and all families involved. A life was lost and the state needed someone to blame. Thanks Dr. Grande for covering this case. Great job as usual! ♥️
This case is insane! The jury was biased as well. Nuts!
Thank you for your intelligent and thoughtful analytical breakdown of this case, Dr. Grande!
You're cracking me up, Dr. G! Thanks for all you do
Her history of sleepiness and sleep incidents in the bathtub should have excluded him immediately. RIP Sarah
The juror that said that about the dog ruined my day
As a dog trainer, I’ve never thought of training from a tub. Ingenious! Thanks for the insight. 😂
Wow, this story hit close to home as I have a sleep condition similar to narcolepsy and fall asleep in the tub regularly and my fiancé’s name is Ryan. 😳
Thank goodness your name is Sarah, lol
Showers only from now on, babe!
So stop taking bath
😮
Honestly regardless of the guy's guilt the incompetency of not one but three juries is absolutely astounding. As dumb as it sounds they should have at least gone for trial 4 - the guy deserves a jury that is at least going to take it seriously. And at best just toss the case until the prosecution could provide a solid case.
You're a beast! I appreciate the content so much.
A solid gold work ethic!🎖🏆🏅
I just love your dry humour, when you talk about serious subjects 😂
Heyy, thank u for uploading
Hello Dr Grande. I liked your video and of course I gave two thumbs up. Thank you.
The ninja reference poisons the well, Dr.
Strange move since you are unsure.
Another great video.
Thank you.
Thank you for your analysis, Dr. Grande.
This case is baffling! I remember moving to Cincy during these trials.
First off I am so sorry for this young womans passing and those who love and miss her. But I want to thank you Dr.Grande as someone who has Long QT syndrome you are the first person I have ever heard mention it with a large following. In particular as a reason for an unexplained death. I believe many unexplained deaths of infants and children could possibly be undiagnosed Long QT syndrome as it is only a relatively new recognised condition and most of my Doctors don't know very much about it and I rely on my own knowledge and my electrophysialogist to keep me safe and well. I guess its a weird thank you for mentioning it maybe someone will look it up and learn more about it. Also there are usually not many if any symptoms of Long QT usually the symptom is a sudden cardiac arrest or "fainting" which was actually a cardiac arrest. Regardless thank you. I love your channel.
Dog training in the bathtub! Hahahaha! I can’t stand it! Dr Grande, you’re the best!
This case exemplifies the unpredictability of the jury. Given the fact that most cases are settled before going to trial, leaving the already debatable cases for the jury, the task at hand is undoubtedly intimidating. Furthermore, apart from the variety of factors that are taken into account in a jury trial, such as witnesses, lawyers, testimonies, etc…, the crucial point is the nature of decision making. In my opinion, most people base their opinions more on their own morals, values, biases, and intuition than on logical thinking. Since the jury is a small representation of the population, it is not surprising that we will encounter these patterns of thinking. The judge on the other hand, is trained to think logically all the time. That’s the reason why many times we see discrepancies between outcomes of trials involving juries as opposed to the ones where the judge makes the decision. I am not saying that the judge is completely free of biases, but certainly not as much as the general public.
Thank you for the excellent analysis Dr. Grande.❤️
Eye witnesses are the lowest of the low as far as evidence goes
Most civil cases are settled before going to jury. Criminal cases are not.
@@Dizastermaster. Not true, do your research.
Umm. Juries are supposed to deliberate cases based on evidence.
Logic is an opinion, it varies from person to person.
"That's an amazing gift that can save the legal system a lot of time". LMAO. I laughed so hard at that!!
13:18 A short pencil is better than a long memory.
Your sarcasm is your best Quality.
Love the humor , Dr. Grande!
This one is not even close to beyond a reasonable doubt. Recipe for convicting the wrong person: “I can’t understand what happened, so that means that the guy nearby must have killed her.”
Good Day, Dr. Grande. Not enough time to keep up with you. Time to binge. 👌
I live in the Cincinnati area and so many people here believed Ryan was not guilty. Although I am not sure he is innocent, I agree that the state did not show him to be guilty wthin a reasonable doubt. Sometimes I think if I were accused I'd opt for a bench trial if possible.
Love your analysis as well as your humor 😁
I just love your sense of humor,Dr. Grande!😂😂
Have you ever thought if doing a analysis into the Tracy Thurman case or the burning of David Rothlenberg, both in 1983.
Best analysis yet
I have narcolepsy and many ppl are not aware that there are 2 types of narcolepsy: Narcolepsy with Cataplexy, and Narcolepsy w/o Cataplexy. Cataplexy is defined as "sudden loss of muscle tone" that happens in different parts of the body for different patients. Cataplexy is triggered by strong emotion, and the triggering emotion is also different for different patients. My Cataplexy happens when I start laughing and it starts in my hands, usually dropping whatever I'm holding, and when it's a very bad episode it can cause my knees to stop working and I fall wherever I'm standing. I just have to lay there, unable to move or talk until it's over, usually a few minutes to fifteen minutes or so. It can be QUITE dangerous depending on the situation and what I'm doing when it's triggered. I, too, have fallen asleep in the bath tub but woke up IMMEDIATELY when the water level reached my mouth and my Dr. said this is normal... Our reflexive responses are NOT compromised just because we have narcolepsy. The Cataplexy, on the other hand, can render us completely helpless and unable to move for short periods of time. I COULD see Cataplexy as a means to her drowning, unfortunately. If you look up Cataplexy on the Internet you can find videos of Cataplexy episodes for random ppl who suffer with it to get an idea of the broad range and severity of muscle tone loss patients experience. Some are left completely unable to move.
Knowing this, I find it difficult to believe she just fell asleep and drowned due to her possible narcolepsy. But as she was never diagnosed properly we don't know if she had narcolepsy at all, or if she had narcolepsy with Cataplexy that could have rendered her completely unable to help herself out of the water and lead to drowning. Lesser Cataplexy episodes can be shrugged off as clumsiness or just being overtired and not recognized for what they really are.
Additionally, as narcolepsy represents a complete breakdown of the sleep-to-wake cycle AND the wake-to-sleep cycle, patients with narcolepsy are usually quite sleep deprived and don't sleep well at night either, and can have multiple varied symptoms of sleep deprivation that quite commonly include stomach problems, headaches, vision problems and falling asleep at inappropriate places and times, to name a few. Her complaints did appear to possibly include some of these but unfortunately we will never know.
I am incredibly troubled to hear that none of this made it into Ryan's trial. Knowing what I know about the disorder itself easily represents reasonable doubt, and the lack of motive seals Ryan's innocence in my mind.
I've also read that in about 2% of all deaths in the U.S. a cause of death is never identified and indicates we simply don't know everything there is to know about how the human body works.
*Apologies for the rant; I felt someone should put this information out there in relation to this case.
Great video Dr. G!! 👍🥰 I haven't had my usual time for my daily Dr. Grande UA-cam videos bc things have been crazy busy- I've SO missed my VERY Favorite Doc and his very cute face and soothing voice!! Lol 😂 EXCELLENT well thought out and laid out video and Analysis as usual! I agree with the good Doc 100%! Thanks for being so dependable with the best content on UA-cam. Love you and your Channel millions. 👍💖🥰🤓😘🌵😍 Shout out to all my fellow Grande Groupies- loves to you all! ✌️💖
Dr Grande is relentless in his ability to put these cases together daily...is he still practicing? Hopefully, it will ensure more growth...these videos just scratch the surface though also fascinating...wrote this before I can enhance any of his jokes...
Gosh, if I remember correctly, he’s in a movie/ documentary
Yessss king go off!!!!!
Dr.Grande actually emoted a bit when he said the dog would have been the states best witness!
Somehow this turned into the funniest video I’ve seen in a long time 😆
She could have had low blood pressure or low blood sugar. She had a history of falling asleep. I have fallen asleep on a motorcycle and while working at my desk. The things that appear suspicious are the life insurance policy, bruising around head and if he found her in bathtub and did not try to pull her out before the 911 operator instructed him to do it. However, if someone is innocent, they are less likely to accept a plea deal. Jurors are not the brightest!
Dr. Grndy your dog comments are hilarious
Thx DocG.
Needed to hear some wisdom today…
Love You, Man
Always interesting.
Awesome, humor.
Thank you.
Peace 💕🇺🇲
Fantastic review.
First, Ryan is innocent.
Second, I know of many of the DAs police judges etc are fired or off the case and not in law anymore for corruption.
Ryan deserves to be free. I pray every day for his freedom.
God has not forgotten you Ryan.
Love that doorknob zinger at the end about Mountain D, Dr. G. Always a pleasure 👌😂👏
Hi Dr Grande! Can you talk about the wedding episode where they called the police because of an agressive relative/guest and they ended up shooting him? IDK if you have addressed it already. I would like to suggest it. Thanks!
Omg Dr.grande with the shades🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️🇱🇷🇭🇹🇭🇹🇭🇹🇭🇹love this man❤️❤️❤️❤️
🌺I so appreciateyour comic relief thank you Dr. G 🌵.
And he didn't get a mistrial with that jury reasoning? Or his legal staff didn't contest it & file for a retrial?
My sister-in-law has seizure disorder. My brother will not allow her to take a bath unless he is at home because of the chance of possible drowning.
Dr Grande doesn't know for sure what the dog was thinking while barking during the emergency call. He's only speculating 😆