Guitar shops can be intimidating, especially for the player who doesn't feel like they are very good. You can shop online for hours, and not buy anything, without feeling like you've wasted someone's time.
Nailed it. I think imposter syndrome runs wild among guitar players. I’ve played for 30 years, just released an EP and I’m still afraid of the guitar shop thing. 🤷🏻
Thank you for that comment, shop sales folk need to learn that. Years ago as a kid I was a music store sales guy and a rep from SLM ( Crate amps, Electra guitars etc) taught me a valuable lesson, here it is: don't show off to a potential customer. It only makes them feel unconfident. Don't act like a star because if you are selling guitars, " you ain't no star" That was great advice. And your comment demonstrates how bad most folks are at selling guitars. They run off most of the good customers and coddle a few local players they think are Gawwwwd. They give them half price deals and over charge strangers. Many stores deserve to fold.
This! When I went to a guitar shop I always went through my newly learned licks at home, thinking "Yeah, I'm gonna try that Les Paul they have playing that Skynyrd lick" but when I was there I couldn't remember it...
I had a friend in TN who opened a small shop - he was even a Taylor and PRS dealer. He went out of business because people would come in to try guitars, then go buy them online - he couldn't afford to function as a showroom for online retailers without making the sale - imagine that.
Maybe your “friend” wasn’t a good salesman. Plus, did he follow these people home and staked out their house until their guitar from an online store came in to know all his potential customers were doing that??? 😂
@@SunnyDiegoProduction Maybe you should refrain from offering an opinion when you don't know what you are talking about. It is better to remain quiet and have people wonder if you are a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.
It is a two part cycle...The shop owner doesn't want to be a showroom for non-buyers, and real customers don't want a scratched 5k guitar. Other than vintage shops, real cool shops, they are going bye bye.
While I appreciate your perspective, I prefer to play the exact instrument I'm going to purchase. I've played several guitars and basses of identical models and one will "tell" me that it's the one that I need to buy.
Everything in Dayton has gone south also. And GC is barely holding on. We are only 1 1/2 hr from Sweetwater. Having said that Sweetwater is online for there Gearfest again. Not good. Gearfest was fantastic for the consumer. Now is that gone forever? Is this the beginning of the end?
You can say the same thing for traditional hobby shops: model kits: planes, ships, RC models, tools and supplies, magazines, etc. They're all gone . . .
An issue for smaller shops, which I don't think you covered here - many of them could survive on just selling a few guitars every week, because their bread and butter income comes from selling all the accessories - strings, picks, straps, cases etc. BUT now many people won't make the effort to travel to a store to buy these when they can get them next day through Amazon, eBay, Reverb without having to leave their house, fight their way through the traffic, find somewhere to park and all the rest of the hassle. It's not worth the time and expense when they know what they want and can easily order it online. So losing that small but steady income that pays the rent is what I think is really killing many of the stores.
That used to be correct (Accessories). Now if you don't have a luthier or at least a tech you are leaving a lot of $$$ walk out the door. I run a repair business in Florida and stay busy year round. Guitar shops won't pay a luthier what they are worth and thats a big problem. Guitar Center called me and asked if I would do their set ups and repairs. I asked why the pay was (4 years ago) they said they could start me at $10.50 and hour. Laughable! My shop rates are $60.00 per hour and I don't stock shelves or clean the restrooms.
@@tomwelgos9691 I would never let GC "fix" my guitar. I am sure a few of their people in that role are OK, but odds are anything I can't do is going to be over their head, or they will, at best, be a chapter ahead of me in learning. Of course, I almost never go into a GC anyway - they are weak sauce.
All quite true. And the important thing about it is that there's a certain type of customer who would walk in the door fully intending to only get strings or picks or a tuner and walk out with a new guitar that was an impulse buy. That traffic simply isn't coming through the front door any longer.
@@edema.3418 why does that automatically make someone "lazy"? If I don't take the time to fight the traffic and parking to go to a guitar store, and instead order online, I would use that time to get things done around the house, go mountain biking, go hiking, go fishing, or even *gasp* practice my guitar...
I started playing bass a couple of years ago. My first bass (a Squier Affinity) was purchased locally. The shop checked it out before it went out the door, but told me to bring it back after playing it for about a month so they could see it after it had been broken in. Turns out the neck was somewhat warped. They ordered me another instrument. As it turns out, the second (a Classic Vibe bass this time), had truss rod issues which came to light a couple of weeks after I took it home. Again, they wanted to see it after I'd had it a while, discovered the problem, and they got me another replacement. I can't imagine the hassle I would have had if I'd had to deal with those issues with an online retailer. I feel really fortunate I have a good local shop. They will continue to have my business as long as they're in business.
In my local town in NW Indiana, we have a GREAT guitar / musician store called Dynamite Music, owned by a professional musician. When I walk in there I am greeted like a friend, and I am able to rely on their expertise. They help me purchase not only what I need, but what I can afford. They provide lessons, repairs and advice that you cannot get on-line or at a huge conglomerate places. Long live the small "mom and pop" stores.
I worked in a local music store for 30 years(NYC). We went from close to 30 employees to 4. The cause is the Internet, on line shopping , big box stores.
Another aspect of this I think is the lack of investment in Music and arts as a society as well. We’ve been pushing kids out of music and the arts for the last thirty years or so. Leading to a lot of kids being disinterested in learning an instrument since it’s pretty much viewed as a dead venture unless you are in the 0.02% of top talent or have rich parents that can fund you not doing anything but practicing and chilling out. I know Baxter and Co are boutique sellers but I really think the end of the guitar store comes down to the general disinterest people of my generation( Gen Z) have in mastering an instrument, so those low end sales just aren’t biting as they used to. At least here in the United States, now back in my home country of Japan, it’s a different story
Yep, this generation is not into rock and guitars anymore , 30-40 years ago, every other teen dreamed of being a rock star like a Van Halen, Jimmy Page or Keith Richards, today, not so much
It's not just about being into it. The cost of living is insane. Things that aren't absolutely necessary are going to go to the wayside. This a result of corporate greed raising fuel rates, hosting, insurance, etc., and no one is talking about how big those factors are for young people... my nephews don't have the time, nor space, to have or learn a guitar. They're forced to not collect things or be let down by what they want, but can't have.
You are correct. I’d say there is a few other big reasons… 1. Rock (any mainstream music with the guitar being a big part of the songs) is DEAD 2. Way too hard to make money. Kids these days were born into having free music with a click of a mouse or phone. 3. Rock is dead 4. Phone recordings of live shows/streaming shows. Don’t need to go to a show when every is recording them. Does a recording give you the experience of being there? Of course not. But, if you’ve binged watched a lot of a bands tour from recordings, I’d say you’d not be so inclined to see them. Maybe I’m wrong 5. Rock is dead
I hate the idea of only buying online. Going to a decent guitar store is like serious therapy for me. Just being around the gear, feeling it, hearing it. You can really cut through a lot of choices quickly just by feeling a neck. They have 8 fuzzes, two you saw online, you can figure out then and there which one to go with. So much internet and UA-cam smoke and mirrors can be dispelled if you can try some classic amps vs newer amps, in person and back to back. Same with guitars. Often you can be surprised at which one was better for you. The thought of buying an acoustic without playing it first is an absolute no. I know online places will have return policies, but you have to take the time to ship it back, wait for a refund. Then wonder how many returns they’ll allow before cutting you off. But you literally could play 5 Gibson’s of the same model before finding the right one. Bottom line, the gear can be as an emotional connection as much as the music we make with it. Unless you’re running in to just get strings or a quick accessory before a gig a visit to a good store can refresh a musicians soul.
Truth!... apart from you need to find a store that stocks all the items you want to compare/demo. Usually without having to drive between lots of different stores. Not as easy as it sounds theses days. Even the bigger stores seem to have allegience to certain brands. No chance most 'Mom & Pop' stores can offer the choice
@@ThePedroDBComes down to luck of the draw on where you live, I guess. I’m lucky that I have 1-3 decent (1 of those being excellent) sole proprietorships in my city and even though they’re a drive for me, on a day off it’s worth it. GC I only visit to see what might be there used as they’re new selection is all too either budget orientated or super expensive.
I agree with what you are saying. I will say this and we are starting to see it happening now. Sweetwater is a publicly owned company and it takes about 2 years for things to start changing. The board will begin looking for ways to add to the bottom line. That usually means they start messing with the employees and then the customer service starts to take a dive.
Sweetwater used to provide excellent customer service.When I had an issue with something earlier this yearI contacted them and they didn't even respond.
In my Chicagoland suburb growing up in the 80s I knew two local music stores that seemed to cater to school band kids or sold organs and horns. Going to Guitar Center from that perspective was amazing; not only was it clearly “rock” and “young” it had so many options - it was like when all they had was lager and then you find a bar with 100 different beers, half imports. Flash forward to this year and I am looking to buy my first good amp. I was shopping in Atlanta and thought, I’ll go to Guitar Center, I can try a bunch of different ones on my medium-short list. They had almost nothing I wanted! And no one able and willing to help, really. So I look online and find Atlanta Discount Music, take an uber out there. Fantastic gents, tons of fun things to try, learned stuff too. So cool. Wasn’t ready to buy an amp yet so I got a cable. I hope they are doing well, they sure did me right.
Just quit my job at Sam Ash Most of the time was trading used gear, posting online, and then getting blamed why no one is buying in store & getting written up for min wage/no commission. At least I left with a lot of cool gear
Most of the guitar music shops I’ve ever been in have been quite hostile to be in. I’ve always felt I’m considered a nuisance to them. Very unfriendly places to be. I’m not surprised they are falling off.
I mostly get that vibe at the big stores like Guitar Center. At some of the smaller independent stores, I am / was on a first name basis with most of the help. Sure you get the know it all types who think they're better than everyone else, but I've made a lot of friends over the years at the independents.
Enjoyed this. 25 years working for a mom n pop that had a global reach, all the way up to the last day…. I think an additional reason you’re seeing the closings, is because those dealers that started out in the late 70s and early 80s, have finally retired. They’ve attempted to find buyers for their store, but end up only finding buyers for their retail property. I watched a large number of these owners, who I have wild respect for, all scramble to try to sell their businesses to David when Reverb and CME were really peaking. They were ready to retire, and nobody was stepping up. And many of those dealers took the real estate money. Bird in the hand. Nothing wrong with it at all. Once the potential buyer of the business does the research that you are talking about, they realize it’s too much of a demand from the manufacturer, and then they’ve gotta re-up with the new color or feature, every six months, whether they’ve sold their old stock or not. It’s tough. And it’s not unique. I’m sure Macys gets pushed when skinny jeans go out of style and they’re forced to stock bell bottoms… in a thousand locations! The shop I worked for is missed. A 50 year run, loyal customers, all the good brands, as well as the unique and up comers… we tried to keep the place appealing and stroke the curiosity of our local, regional, and global customer base. And it worked. But in the end, the building was worth far more than the name. And that’s disappointing. The building still sits vacant, over a year later. May make a nice parking lot someday. Drag. If you guys ever wanna do an on screen visit, I’d be thrilled to chat with ya. gearmanndude@hotmail.com Yep. Old enough for Hotmail. 😂
Another thing l have noticed is people's children don't always want to carry on their parents' businesses. There was a great local pizza place, but as the parents got older, their kids would rather install car stereos etc.
I saw the buy now and pay over six months at Sweetwater. I thought about getting a pricey Martin that way. I watched this video and went to the Fret House instead. There I found an American Dream Taylor AD17-E new and on sale for 1,299. I played it and loved it. The owner was in there and helped me. He has helped me many times over the past 40 years. I thought, why was I going to Sweetwater when these guys are here. I have a year of free support for set ups or string changes or tweak's. My wife was with me and I sat down in their amp room to try it. I remembered that my friend knew them pretty well and me and my band mates once got to practiced in that room on a particularly hot day last summer for several hours. The Fret House, I cannot forget thee.
My situation is a bit different. Helped open/manage a new store in 2017, then the owner decided to close this year. I negotiated a deal for the existing inventory, leased a new space, then opened my own shop within 60 days. With myself being the 'face' of the other shop, regardless of changing the name/location, I'm fortunate many have followed me. BTW, I'm only 90 minutes away from Sweetwater.
That’s what these guys fail to mention, most guitar shops suck lol just a bunch of dudes on their high horses living in the 90s, you’re obviously different and people like that and continue to shop there for that same reason. If you provide good service people will keep coming back!
Incredible episode which could honestly be a podcast series on the state of the business. 0:40 Baxter is lonely 1:20 Sweetwater = Wal Mart without people in pajama bottoms 4:30 Let's go into debt 5:16 Casino Guitar's Financial Advice Minute 8:00 Pro Audio Star Shout out 8:50 Witness Protection Program Participant's Opinion 9:50 Baxter talks about his plot for a coup 12:23 FBI informant is back 15:50 Siskel and Ebert 18:33 More prolitariat vs. bourgeois talk
The parallels happening in the bicycle industry are amazing. Small bike shops can't keep up sales with the influx of large direct online offerings. The direct sales folks have greater reach and less overhead, so can offer lower prices. This was exacerbated during the pandemic, as the supply chain - largely from Asia - came to a slow crawl. Demand during the lock down exploded, while bicycle shops were low on product, and what little available was high priced. This not only affected sales of complete bicycles, but the availability of parts for repairs, etc. Now that supplies are again available, and with the waning of the pandemic, there is less demand and shops can't afford keeping excessive inventory. Huge online sellers have a large advantage.
I’ve made a lot of purchases from Sweetwater. I agree that their customer service is great. But one thing I’ve noticed is they seem to have some turnover that makes me look around a little more. Their greatest asset is as always is their people. Hopefully they’re taking care of their people and the customer service remains consistent.
A thought, completely made up; I had some friends years ago that worked sales at Dell in Nashville. It was non-business phone sales, customers calling in for assistance in buying a computer, and hopefully getting a good deal Pay was good, and the sales staff were taken really good care of, with regards to free food and snack, comfortable desk areas, fun team activities, etc…, but if you weren’t meeting your numbers there was a lot of pressure to improve or you’re fired. They all started there bragging about how cool it was, and the pay, and all eventually began calling the place Hell, and we’re fired for not meeting sales numbers From what I hear a lot of customers would call to get help, and then would hang up and order the computer online themselves, so sales staff would give their time and not get commission I’m sure that’s normal for phone and online sales support staff, give or take the commission pay
I love Sweetwater. My guy, Nicholas Weaver has been there as long as I’ve been buying from them which has been at least 10 years. Maybe there has been some turnover but I haven’t seen it. I also like ZZOUNDS. They have a great customer service center and can sometimes get a better deal. I’ve had absolutely no issue with returns from them either. The one huge issue with both is they use Fed X which is completely unreliable and terrible where I live. I’ve told both companies I will stop doing business with them if their shipping service doesn’t change. They admit they’ve had a huge amount of complaints about Fed X but….. I do love local music stores too!
In Toledo two longtime shops have closed also due to the owners getting of a certain age and retiring. One was the second series of owners who retired. One other is a great shop for kids, accessories, but no major brand instruments and amps due to either Guitar Center having the franchise or the "floor plan " costs are crazy!
I wonder if smaller shops would benefit from setting up regularly scheduled Jam nights for their communities? The shops could benefit from increased visibility and sales and musicians could meet others with which they might be able to form bands and do collaborations. Thanks for the realistic view of guitar stores in modern times!
Such was a concept I experienced around the SF bay area back in the late '60s sponsored by various well-known shops and it worked. Countless bands were formed, many we know today, collaborations galore and the gear kept moving.
I've been playing the guitar for about 40 years. When I was young, I spent quite a bit of time in the music shop, trying out gear, asking for tips and repairs. then I moved and the shops in my area ...they didn't let anyone touch the instruments, gave snappy answers to my questions. By now, I have know instrument builders, do a lot of stuff myself. I know (and own) quite a bit of gear and any reviews I get on the internet. The things I want isn't available at the shops - and last time I ordered something, they showed me the item on the thomann page to check if that was what I meant - and charged me a slight extra amount for their effort, when I did order it. The extra that shops offer is customer service and the ability to try out stuff - especially when you are young. And that's when you build up loyalty. I'd have paid extra at my old music shop, now I usually order via thomann, which is quicker and cheaper.
It's amazing that you posted this at this time. My local shop, Brandham Music in Manning SC just shut the doors after years of being in business. I saw one of the owners the other day and he told me someone offered to buy the building (going to be a a Pizza Parlor) and with the state of their business they had no choice. These guys were old (60-70) and they worked the store by themselves, primarily one guy. A sad day for sure but the writing was on the wall. They couldn't afford to keep the stock they needed to compete with MF or SW. I'll miss them for sure. It makes me wonder how long GC is going to be around. My last visit to the one in Columbia was less than satisfactory. Low on stock (not 1 SG in the store) almost no floor help (2 guys) and messy.
I own a shop and I admire Sweetwater. They are good and also, folks that buy there bring their instruments to us for service. What really fries my ass is manufacturers selling direct. Especially when they hold back inventory to sell direct and put my orders on back order. I’ve actually recommended items to customers only to find out it’s back ordered but the the customer points out that they can get it overnight with free freight direct from the manufacturer.
When I buy direct from Fender, I don't worry about getting a used instrument shipped to me as new. Sweetwater and you? I'll never know what I'm going to get. There ya go, that's why.
@@user-gl7xm3kf3y When you get a guitar from us it’s new and set up and you’ve got us for continuing support. Come by sometime. 👍. We pretty much sell local and we know many of our customers by name when they come in.
@@user-gl7xm3kf3y no only that even though fender has in their disclaimer they'll charge you for a return. They NEVER do. Sweetwater has been known to. Online shops like sweetwater are definitely not the issue. ANd the guitar industry has been dying long before these manufacturers started going direct.
As a lefty I never have the opportunity to play any guitar I might want. Fact is, there is more information available now to help people understand which guitar they might want than there has ever been without even having to touch it. From the shape and size of the neck, to pickups, the kinds of strings, body shape/style, etc. And the people at Sweetwater have been, from my experience, very helpful. More helpful than the cooler than god asshats at the local shops... who don't even have anything I can try anyway.
I seek out mom and pop guitar stores whenever I visit a city. It's gotten harder as years go by. I have tons of hats and t-shirts and guitars that bring memory of great trips. Support mom and pop before these disappear.
It's a sad, sad time for music shops - and has been here in the UK for over a decade now - as everyone, myself included, are buying from online retailers that can offer bottom dollar prices and convenience. In the UK, in my town, the one mom n pop store I use is a nightmare to park a car near. The one's in the town centre are even worse as it is almost totally blocked off from cars for pedestrians. When I go to my local small shop and walk in, even on a Saturday, it's like so quiet. In the past it was full of noise and people, but now the owner greets me like a long lost relative and is so pleased when I stock up on strings and a few spares like cables. I hope, each purchase however small helps a bit BUT they no longer stock a wide range of guitars and amps like in the past. There are no "bucket list" items in their store :( so I expect with the state of the economy, and the fact the owner is getting old, that even this small store will close in a few years. Glad to hear Casino is doing okay in all this, but the future does look grim with manufacturers looking to cut out the middle men who were the heart and soul of the business AND a major part of my musical education and inspiration as a teenager growing up. Tempus fugit, and the world changes, and more often not for the better.
Since you're in the UK, how is the Denmark Street music store scene doing these days? I remember not too long ago, that was the place to go in London and every time I went there the place was teeming with business and lots of foot traffic.
@@danielstoddart Denmark St and that scene remains strong last time I was up in London. Seriously rare and expensive guitars on sale as well as regular priced gear. London benefits from, well, being London and having the underground train system. Also, it's legendary status means it is a historical tourist attraction, like so much of central London. When you get out of London though, it's much harder as you won't get the foot traffic. Also, loads of bands are based in London and buy their gear from shops like the ones in Denmark St which, again, isn't the case elsewhere. Sadly the UK really is split between it's capital city and the rest of the country, with all the money in London. Kinda sucks for us hicks living elsewhere lol. Still, I got my banjo and my guitars. Not sure the world is quite ready for UK Country & Western music though 😂
You guys are spot on! It’s all about community. We love what we do as well and will continue to do our best for players. If you dudes are ever in Denver, stop on in we’d love to have ya.
I hate to see any mom and pop store close. Towns, cities, and communities are better and stronger with thriving mom and pop stores. But. big box stores and the internet have put a lot of them out of business. And it's a loss.
I walked into a Guitar store that had a few acoustic guitars I was interested in, cash in my pocket, none of the guitars were set up at all. The action was way high, and even though I went through and told the dude which ones I wanted to play, I had to tune every single one while the sales dude watched. This shop I guess sells mostly electric guitars and I have had a good experience buying there before, but this was pretty sad
I couldnt imagine working at a guitar store and NOT take care of the guitars :O I love setting up guitars, intonating, straightening necks, fretjobs, making sure Floyd Roses stays in tune, all that stuff. And lets be real there's not always people in the store so you might as well just sit around scroll facebook or something... But I would setup guitars and clean strings etc
This is my experience too. In my experience, most of the time, the CS is atrocious. And I understand it's because you're stressed cause you're almost out of business and here comes the 1000th Johnny Boy that is going to play all your stock for 10hrs and buy a pack of strings, but guess what, that's your market. You can't treat your customer base as an annoyance then come crying when they buy elsewhere. Also change your strings lads and lower those prices. I understand spending a little bit more for a guitar out the door, but 30% over the online competition is suicide
Was going to visit the Nashville area and wanted to buy a low end acoustic for a Nashville tuning (so I could say "I bought that one in Nashville" :-). Found Shuff's music in Franklin TN and called ahead of my trip and explained what I was looking for. They stated that they were not a dealer for that brand, I said ok and that I would stop by anyways on my trip. Went to the shop when I said I would on the phone call. The owner had reached out and found an acoustic that was similar to what I had mentioned on the phone and brought it into the shop, not even knowing if I would actually show up like I said I would. It was perfect! She put on the Nashville tuning for me and shipped it back to my home for me. So impressed by the service!
Layaway beats the Interest rates but requires you to Wait to take Guitar home once its paid in Full and usually 4-6 months. it was the only way I could afford the 2020 Slash Victoria Goldtop, that I probably wouldn't have bought without a Layaway Option. Just remember to Work your Deal First and then ask for Layaway so Seller doesnt build in a Layaway fee
We had a thriving music store scene a few years ago with several mom and pop music shops, most of which were guitar-centric. Then, Guitar Center. Within a year, virtually all of those shops were gone. And now Guitar Center is on the ropes.
Two tiny guitar sales & repair stores, in my town and an adjacent one in Tennessee, closed within about 30 days of each other in December 2022/January 2021. I was bummed to see both go, but I still get my gear worked on by one of the former owners. Also consider: those shops have paid shipping etc. already, and the price you see for online stuff doesn't figure that in. Plus, you won't know whether an instrument purchased online has that magic "zing" until you can play it for yourself.
exactly I don't buy into the fact that online guitar shops are closing them down. Its just the fact noone has the money to buy these expensive guitars which are mostly chinese trash nowadays. And noone wants to deal with the sales people who are rude or trying to upsell them. It is what it is man. Someone in this day and age tells me they have a nice acoustic guitar I assume their a fkn snob.
Let's be honest owning a music store is much like being a musician. If you're not doing it for the love of music you probably aren't going to last forever because you're not going to get rich at it. Add to that, the limited extremely inventory also (by comparison). A lot of the mom & pop store owners are getting to the age where they want to retire also. And now there is online competition that offers virtually anything you could ever desire at the click of a button that you can have by the end of the week. People miss nostalgia but do we fret (pardon the pun) there are no longer carriage builders for horse drawn carts? I see the mom & pop stores headed the way of K-Mart. If you raise the pricing of dead inventory you're only hurting yourself in the end.
No, I can't find a carriage shop anywhere anymore but I CAN take a test drive, kick the tires, look under the hood and smell the interior before I buy a car at my local auto dealers.
Great discussion. We are in a Use it or Lose it phase in the marketplace. I love visiting the guys at my guitar shop. They always encourage me to pick up a guitar to see how I like it. I would mourn their closure.
Twin Town Guitar Shop, South Minneapolis, was the original store location for Roger Benedict Guitars. (3 blocks from my house.) Big Head Todd and the Monsters dedicated their 1st CD to Roger. His main guitar build was a semi-hollow strat with an F hole like Eric Johnsons. Bonnie Raitt, Jackson Browne, Stevie Ray Vaughan and many more used his "Groovematser" guitars. Thanks for a Great one.
I like to support my local community guitar store, but they have a limited stock of a lot of things. I end up checking my local G/C. When it's not available there I buy online.
Ive been to many guitar stores where the owners are just grumpy and unpleasant and it makes me cautious about even entering one if I see one. Mostly applies to smaller guitar stores. Bigger ones there's more privacy.
@@alanpettibone If I got to a small store I expect to at least be reasonably treated if you want my business. I agree with Cedrick. If I get treated better somewhere else why should I pay for abuse? It has nothing to do with personality disorder.
Many people have an experience where someone in a guitar shop was rude to them. Or put too much sales pressure, or ignored and did not offer help. Customer service builds a business and keeps it afloat. There is too much online competition. I hope the good guitar shops keep doing what worked for them and also can adapt to change. Stores that do not deliver good service will hopefully weed themselves out first. There are also 5 luthiers and 100 guitar techs in every town now. The tech in the store better be damn good and make the customer happy. They'll only get one chance.
Hi Guys! I've been very fortunate to visit your store, and love the way you have it laid out! The smaller, different rooms serve to make your store a very inviting, intimate experience in that unique, vintage building! Your brand offerings and one-of's are outstanding! And your knowledgable, friendly staff feels authentic and invested in the effort. You guys are a "must visit" for me & my friends. Thanks for sharing your view on this subject! Southern Pines/Pinehurst/Aberdeen is very lucky to have you!
I think a lot of the problem is the snobbery that many shop owners and employees have. I have been in shops that have this very attitude and had a pocket full of money to buy an instrument. You can't deny that many shops judge you as soon as you walk in.
I was thinking of the exact thing. My local camera shop closed, I’m assuming of COvID-19. Moreover, it was struggling before the pandemic. Customers would come in and compare prices and then search the Internet for a better deal. I miss the days before the Internet. I would prefer local small mom and pop shops but the big box stores are taking over. We have seen malls disappear, maybe we’ll see the big box stores disappear also within time. It seems like everyone is preferring on-line shopping for the convenience. It has become the normal.
Let's be honest. Buying new guitars online when they cost less is buying better. As I customer I don't care about paying for the shop rent increase in expensive locations, I want to pay for gear! If I go to a shop I have 10 options and I can't try them all as much as I want anyway, if I buy online I have all options! What changed the game are you tube reviews, which are awesome! I think shops should be for second hand gear and second hand/vintage guitars only. With all the boomers collectors dying soon, vintage will become most frequent and hopefully more accessible to anyone. Times change, shops need to change too. Customers don't care and they shouldn't care, because it's not their business to care.
What you can't do when you buy direct from Martin or Taylor - play your new guitar before you buy it!! Not all guitars are equal. I like to find that one guitar that tunes perfectly, has the best tone, and just plays better in my hands. If we lose all the dealers where you can go play 5 or 6 models before buying THE one, I don't know that I will be buying too many more guitars. Hang in there, you guys!!
Exactly! I don't want to order a guitar online and hope it's as good as the one I tried in the store. I like messing with it talking to the employees at the shop. Jammin with people in the store etc. Ordering online takes away the spirit of buying the guitar in the first place
@@dukerufus5334 noone plays a good guitar in the store and then goes and buys the same model for the same price online and rolls the dice. If anything the employees in the store are snobby or rude and the customers don't want to give their money to them. Especially when most people can't afford anything expensive anymore. Which is usually the case in small shops. The other issue is guitars are expensive and everything is imported from china now. People just aren't buying acoustic guitars anymore cause they aren't worth it. the only guitars being sold alot are the cheapest fenders and yamahas, literally.
It is my understanding that the manufacturers use local shops for warranty work, if so the shops should all work together. One way might be to start an online database and register all of the instruments sold by local shops. Then turn away any warranty work for instruments sold by the manufacturer. If they are forced to open and staff regional repair centers it would increase their cost for direct sales.
Financing makes more sense as guitars and equipment have gotten extremely expensive. There are a lot of guitars that cost more than some cars I have purchased.
Isn’t Reverb a big part of this equation? For me personally is either Reverb, Amazon, sweet water or direct, in that order. I always think of Reverb as a behemoth with total domination of the used market
In part yes but the old addage of hitting the pawn shop for a deal has almost disappeared. Most pawn shops (at least in my area) have gouged the prices so bad I'm better off buying new from online retailers. Which is where Reverb filled a missing part of the market.
I say the following from a place of sadness, not righteous anger. I just wish small shops were better and they really could be if they chose to be. I know that it's tough for a small business (I work at one). Some are AMAZING. Many small shops are as bad as GC or slightly better, a lot of us probably have to shop online anyway. I'm all for supporting small local businesses but I also expect some things from them that an internet retailer doesn't offer; better customer service, a personal experience, the ability to play an instrument before I buy it. Since they often carry mostly lower end stuff or barely anything at all and don't really take care of it in their showroom it usually isn't a very good experience. If independent shops level up (Like Casino, Righteous, Walt Grace et. al) then they needn't worry. If they want to be a dingy hole in the wall with indifferent employees and poor inventory, well then natural selection will run its course I'm afraid to say. Some of it is simple stuff so it's even more annoying when a small shop doesn't check the box. Examples I've personally dealt with: greet your customers when they come in the store, chat with them, be friendly. Easy, costs you nothing. If Strymon releases a cool pedal, you should probably have it for sale rather than the same ten pedals you've carried since 1987. Clean your showroom. Seriously bro, a vacuum cleaner doesn't cost too much. If you don't have windows, put in good lighting. Why does it have to be a cave? If your Google profile says you're open at 9am, then you damned well better be open. If you don't want to be there then UPDATE google. It's not that tough. Those are just a few of the examples we all deal with in the town I live in. I don't even buy strings in town unless I'm in a jam because the experience is such a let down and this is my hobby. It needs to be fun for me to spend money. It isn't fun. We aren't all lucky enough to live by Casino or other stores that understand these basics. Sorry for the rant... I guess this has been really bothering me more than I realized! 😛
You nailed it. And how 'bout : quit selling stuff at cost to all yer drunken local guitar heros and then giving no discount to that mama buying strings for her sweet kid. And quit acting like a star when instead you are a salesperson working in a rather dirty little shop
I am fortunate enough to have purchased about 10+ premium guitars in the last 3 years (don't tell my wife... ;-) ) and I never considered for a sec to buy one in a physical store. Just because I love Music and guitars, not the inconvenience of dealing with local, physical stores. Note I am 50+ - so I still remember retail stores! The reason why small shops have to close down is not Sweatwater or some other "evil online store". The reason is simple: There is more value created for us / the customers online. Understanding what the customer wants (and not the seller or the guitar manufacturer) is key to survive and thrive! And I don't think it's about price by the way. Just the convenience of shopping from home, simple return policies, great online training and reviews rather than talking to semi-professional sales people in a store is just more valuable for many people. I would actually be willing to pay MORE online if I don't need to go to a physical shop!! Customer value matters - nothing else. How to create that? Don't complain about "big online stores" - Innovate for more customer value!! Sorry to be very direct - Great channel - love your work! Thanks for doing this!! Andreas P.S.: Why do you not use your channel to promote great offers in your store? I am sure people will love it + place an order!
@@LostMyMojo100 Not always, no. I've bought a few that turned out to be great surprises in a good way too. I know what features I want and if the guitar has it I'll take a chance. No different than trying a guitar first and months later finding out it just isn't the one.
I go back before the big box store existed, a little bit anyway. In the Seattle metro area there was a magnificent store in a southend suburb town that was huge right on main street. Bigger than the current Guitar center in Tukwila. That is the only shop that I got taken advantage of by as a naive high-school student. We had no way to price check etc. When I talked to my elder performing Musicians they chuckled and said it had happened to them in shops all around town. It wasn't until the Big stores came in that small stores began to compete. Do I like that fewer corporate stores are available? No! I do understand why though, and I believe the small stores left the door open for commercial take over years go because of a lack of ethics.
There was a shop down the street from me, and I'd drive 20 minutes to Guitar Center and risk dealing with traffic because the shop was so bad. Limited on hand, higher prices, and you can't play the gear without permission.
My shop shut down in 2019. I miss Bear Hollow. The thing that puts it over Sweetwater is that Neil-builds guitars. And for a lefty like me it’s priceless
Ah, Lefty's Lament. I too know it well: Often having to special order or getting lucky from someone posting theirs for sale. Never could bring myself to butcher a good righty for a lefty conversion. Most shops don't stock, the few that do may have onesy twosy at the bottom of the line.
Baxter said the three magic words: easy, cheap, and fast. The world of business, like the rest of the world, runs on unwritten rules, and the golden unwritten rule of business is a rule that can be reduced to simple arithmetic. Cheaper + Faster + Easier = Better. And C + F + E = Better always wins. Always. You don't have to like it, you just need to understand it.
We lost a great small shop recently in Richardson (Dallas suburb), TX. Archie’s Guitars was an awesome little shop with tons of great stuff. Sad to see it go
It’s a shift in the customer base. Lots of older players already have the guitars they want. They aren’t actively in the market for additional guitars. The younger generation is used to buying everything online off a picture. So places like Sweetwater etc are doing well. There’s a lot to be said about playing an instrument before you buy it. Especially a guitar. No two are alike, even the same Brand and Model. I can’t imagine how hard it is to run a retail guitar shop today.
Happened years ago with Guitar Center. My town of about 100k had 3 or 4 that had been around for decades. The old refugees can be seen hanging out in the only game in town, GC, now. Bonus: Rock has been dead for at least 20 years, and kids don't care about guitars. GC is for buying strings if you need them right away and for the unsavory practice of showrooming stuff you can get online.
I just purchased a Taylor 724ce. One of the problems I had with local stores was two fold: customer service, and willingness to make a sale. I wanted to go to local stores, but neither was open the day I had free, so I went to GC. Played the guitar, loved it, but there were some dings on it. I started talking price to the guy who was helping me and he just became a huge jerk about it, demanded I get the service plan if he took money off. So I left. The next day I called the first local place. Told him I was interested in the guitar, that I had seen Taylor's go on sale before and asked him what his best price was. He said 3500, no sale price, it is what it is and basically hung up on me. The other local place I called and no one answered. Called again later and no one answered. Sent a message to them on reverb and no reply. Finally I reached out to Sweetwater. I had a local sales guy call me the next day. We talked about the guitar, talked about price, he asked me what he could do to earn my business and I told him the price I wanted to pay. He came back shortly after putting me on hold and agreed to it. I signed up for a Sweetwater card, got cash back from it, and in total with tax I saved over a THOUSAND dollars. I love local shops. I want to do business with them. I'm willing to spend an extra hundred bucks just to get them a sale and help out. But I can't spend an extra thousand to do that, and they didn't give me the time of day. The place I messaged on reverb sent me a message back a few weeks later saying that 3500 was the best they could do. I had already purchased the guitar. It's not just that Sweetwater have me a better price - they worked with me, they talked to me and they asked for my business. They were there when I needed and they shipped it immediately. I worked commission sales at a small appliance/TV store chain that started as a mom and pop place. We worked with people and were interested in their business. That hasn't been my experience in this purchase.
My local guitar shop is Mike Lull’s in Bellevue, WA. Especially when Mike was still alive, I was there every couple of weeks. Proud to own a Mike Lull bass, a T-style and an S-style. Very special to actually know the guy who made your guitar, talk about pickup selection, wiring options, etc.
Within the past few years we began buying all of our musical instruments and equipment from Sweetwater. The reasons being, Sweetwater does extensive quality control, and 55 point checks on guitars, offers free shipping even on heavy PA equipment, incredible financing, and stands behind their inventory. Our local shop closed, and another, earlier on, could no longer sell Taylor as Guitar Center was the authorized dealer. Now that Taylor has gone direct, they are sold more widely. We buyTaylor acoustic, and mostly Schecter electrics. Our basses, drums, and other equipment and instrument brands vary.
I’m coming through in September…. Going to stay at a local campground for a few days…. Will be at your shop to buy my first acoustic. Looking forward to meeting you all
Glad you guys are doing well! Love your shop, you guys are super down to earth and at the same time out there. If you guys ever need anything let me know at The Guitar Shop in Anderson, SC
I moved from Los Angeles to central Kentucky last year. I haven’t been in a position to buy just yet, but I’ve seen some cool shops here in the Lexington & Louisville areas that I can’t wait to go check out when I’m not so busy.
Here in a city of 400,000 people we have 12 local guitar stores and one guitar center. The most successful local shops either cater to vintage/unique instruments, school band instruments, pianos/orchestral instruments, lessons, or luthier services (or a combination of these). the shops that don't have a niche struggle. The shops have selection, cheap, or personal service but can only offer two of these. Shops that have selection and cheap are the guitar center big box stores. Personal service and cheap, there isn't much selection. Selection and personal service they aren't going to be cheap.
Hi, I have been dealing with Sweetwater Music for over ten years. They are #1 in my book. My personal sales engineer is Jeff Barnett. I rely on his help and he has never steered me wrong. Shalom/gw
I live in Philly and there have NEVER been any real guitar stores here, just a few small stores in obscure parts of the city proving they don't want any business anyway. I'm pretty convinced I'm the only person that plays guitar in this city.
Some ideas if I had a guitar shop (or the money to have one). - make sure whatever you sell costs the same (after shipping) as it would to get online - sell gear that is actually usable and decent and a good value (very affordable) - sell various gear that also cannot be found readily online. - do not 'pressure' customers - let people just jam out and hang out if they want. Let it be a hang out destination That will attract people and make it more than just a store.
We used to hang at a he local shops when I was in highschool. It was like a coffee shop for musicians. I could noodle around for a month or more, and after I made a purchase, no one cared that I only bought strings, and pics after that. If guitar stores want to survive, they gotta get away from selling and get back to the music. The drum room used to have pros and amateurs doing a session. The salesman were also musicians.
Small shops survive today mainly through selling accessories, like strings, straps, capos, performing guitar set up and repairs, and teaching music lessons. Big brands like Fender, Gibson just won't sign exclusive dealerships with small shops and allow them to sell their products at a competitive prices. Moreover, we have much fewer guitar manufacturers than we think we do (Charvel, Jackson, Gretsch are under Fender). Small shops can survive though by selling vintage, used, or Japanese/Korean guitars.
I find that if your don’t open the store to impulse customers coming in and doing appointment only you will lose to the large big box music stores. Going this route of appointment only has stopped me from going to the Music Zoo and Southside Guitars in New York. I don’t want to ask them to bring out a few guitars only for me to try-some of the best guitars I found were by picking them up just running the racks. Hopefully the appointment only trend will stop. I can only hope.
Guitars are a luxury item, they cost hundreds of dollars, and amps hundres of dollars, and people have less spending money & have less time to play. Even pedals are like $100 a pop. I've playing for long enough that Im treating my self to a nice set up. I'm up to like $1500 so far. Thats huge money, and nobodys gonna spend close to that unless they also been playing for years
The problem with Mom & Pop retailers is their limited inventory. I’m not talking about just the high ticket items but things like strings, picks, etc. I use certain picks and strings, nothing obscure, but local shops usually don’t stock them. That forces me to go online and once that happens, you know where that leads. It’s unfortunate but with so many different products available these days, it’s impossible for local retailers to stock a good selection.
Yeah that is the major frustration I have with shops. Never have strings...never have picks or even guitar cleaner. It's ridiculous. It's obvious they have no idea what the average player uses or needs.
It’s like every business, if you provide good service people will keep coming back, but the fact is most these places have 80s Rock Queens running their shops not interested in selling entry/mid level guitars(you know, where you can make lots of money) they’re more interested in their hairdos or those small shirts from their favorite bands they can barely fit into anymore lol
The other point is the make or break of a salesperson's commission is often not guitars or instruments, it's accessories. Strings, straps, polish, drum sticks, cables, etc etc. If you love your local shop but are not buying your weekly/monthly consumable supplies there, they won't stay in business long.
The 3 KILLER!!!! music stores back in 1980 in Colorado Springs, Colorado was High Country Music on the corner of Platte Ave & Nevada Ave. across from Palmer High School, Rocky Roller Music on Fillmore St., Colorado Springs Music on Tejon St. these Mom & Pop stores were the greatest and a lot of memories!!!! I bought my first Rickenbacker 4003 in 1980 from High Country Music. I miss physically going to these stores with your friends looking at guitars & amps and the whole experience and feeling you got when you walked in to these stores, the good ole' days gone!!!! SAD!!!!
Mom and pop shops in any venue, not just guitar shops are closing! Small guitar shops need a repair dept. and accessories for guitarists. You can’t just sell guitars but guys who are professionals players like me want to try guitars before you buy! Buying online is a big risk, you aren’t guaranteed a good functioning instrument even when it is seemingly like new! I’ve got a few stories about guitars! A couple of my guitars that I bought online needed work, they didn’t play well when I got them!
Mom and pops can't keep inventory like they used to. I went to my only local music store left in the are looking to spend some money. I was looking for a good acoustic guitar, and after looking around for almost an hour, all I could find was a stand and a few other accessories. I spent less than 250 bucks but I was planning to spend at least 2 grand. I couldn't find anything to buy there. This same store was once a Fender and Gibson dealer, but didn't have a single one of either. The most expensive guitar I found was less than 400 bucks.
I live in a small-town in Illinois & there is no local-shop anymore. I have to drive 45-minutes to Rockford just for a guitar center 🫤 I order everything on-line now.
I'm a Fayetteville, Arkansas guitar player, and I'm watching our local shop liquidate its inventory. It's a bummer. We'll be left with the big-box store, and that's also a bummer.
Part of the issue is, I think, the excess of choice that we enjoy these days - guitars, amps, accessories. How many brands and models of capos are out there? Tuners - same thing. Strings, cables...you name it. So much choice that small stores can't possibly stock the selection that people demand and alternatively can find at places like Sweetwater. Or Amazon. Even GC and Sam Ash stores can't possibly stock the million variations of the Fender Stratocaster that Fender has chosen to flood the market with.
the nearest store to me,walking distance,when i arrived in london,were pretty well stocked with guitars,but nowadays they have a few squiers,a few cheap shine guitars,and sometimes the odd gibson or fender,real nice helpful guys,i still buy my strings there,but they make most of their money these days doing repairs,and hiring out pa gear,which is ironic,as the small town i grew up in scotland,had a quite well stocked guitar store,i knew the owner personally,and bought and sold guitars there for a few years,they are gone now,but the town still has a decent store.whereas in london if i want to find a well stocked store,i have to take a bus journey,i also miss the stores that had big used guitar sections.there was also the advantage of playing before buying,so i miss guitar stores
I live near Cheyenne, WY, the biggest town in Wyoming. There is no store in this town where you can buy guitars or strings, picks, etc. We have a store that sells pianos, organs and supplies instruments for the schools. My only options for guitar gear are online or driving 50+ miles to the nearest Guitar Center.
I still have the Martin D35 I bought in 1974. I buy strings from my local Music Shop, and they have band instruments. Trouble with instruments is they last and last. Accessories is the key to stay in business. Play every day.
It's the nature of technology and evolution of economics. It is not just guitar shops going through it, right now car dealers are about to disappear. And the reality is that it makes sense for someone to buy a car directly from the manufacturer and not have to pay dealer fees or the hassle of pressure sales of unnecessary services/guarantees. Sure that is a little different than guitar shops but the concept is similar. Maybe guitar shops can start offering better value, like a free set up, free changing strings when you buy them in, free classes, something to keep the foot traffic and added value vs buying online. I try to buy from mom and pop's shops as much as I can however it is very difficult when I can save 15 to 20 percent buying direct/online. Good topic and conversation.
I could apply this to retail in general, but into the context of music instrument buying through e commerce it’s not the convenience some think it is. The key point with it is that you don’t get to try it in hand as opposed to going to a store in person. Why does that matter so much? Well it’s because no matter what guitar you play, every type of model is not going to be the same. I don’t simply mean that every guitar is built different from different brands or that each guitar has specific specs. I’m more referring to the fact that even trying multiple of the same model will yield slight differences in how each one feels as you play. No 2 fender, Gibson, PRS, or whatever ones you try will never be 100% the same for each guitar made. All of what I just said up to here builds into the grander point of inconvenience. For an example, I went to a local guitar shop recently as they recently had a restock on some fresh gear including some Gibson SG models. One of them was an SG special, a guitar that’s been on my radar for a while, which I assume was made between 2021 and now cause it was in a Vintage Cherry finish. I tried it and played pretty nice, though the wrap around tailpiece was something the made the action feels little off compared to the tune o matic bridge of a standard or 61 sg which I normally prefer. I didn’t get this guitar though. I actually bought another listing off Reverb for about $600 less than the other. Now that sounds like a contradiction to the my overall point, but I did it because it looked solid for a used guitar and it had a refinish from sparkling burgundy to tv yellow which made it distinct for the model. After I got though, what sold me was that it played real nice just barely beating out the Special I tried in stores it is a keeper for sure. However, let’s say it wasn’t in this instance what played out and that I never tried the initial one in store. I went through all the trouble of paying for the guitar, having the owner get the payment to then package process the order and then ship it off. I wait several days and it finally arrived as is. If somehow i didn’t like it at all then I would’ve had to go through the whole process of a refund before reshipping it back to the owner and get my money back. I think after a while it would just be a total pain and waste of my time to constantly take a gamble, even if a listen is brand new, to purchase a guitar without trying it at all. And that’s not even touching the rabbit hole of scammers and false listings which is another problem in its own right that piles onto the conundrum.
I can tell you one reason….lack of simple customer service. I am TRYING to spend over $3000 right now, and can’t even get a return email. In a time when communication and information is always at our fingertips…unacceptable.
I've been playing guitar since 1963 and frankly I make good choices and then keep them and I've had a few guitars and amps. Prices and big box stories are a burn. You don't need all that stuff.. All you need is a telecaster or SG with a Fender Champ amp to have fun. And friends don't let friends go to Guitar Center.
Music shops have two serious challenges; the same problem most brick and mortars have with internet sales and Walmart style superstores which can afford to purchase products AFTER confirmed sales, and second, there are less actual musicians of instruments than in previous generations. What would help is to always have music classes at the shops and also set up concerts to attract general population festivities. The other issue is to buy in bigger volumes to lower shop costs to lower sale prices. The idea of relying on distribution loyalty alone is obsolete.
Guitar shops can be intimidating, especially for the player who doesn't feel like they are very good. You can shop online for hours, and not buy anything, without feeling like you've wasted someone's time.
this
Nailed it. I think imposter syndrome runs wild among guitar players. I’ve played for 30 years, just released an EP and I’m still afraid of the guitar shop thing. 🤷🏻
Thank you for that comment, shop sales folk need to learn that. Years ago as a kid I was a music store sales guy and a rep from SLM ( Crate amps, Electra guitars etc) taught me a valuable lesson, here it is: don't show off to a potential customer. It only makes them feel unconfident. Don't act like a star because if you are selling guitars, " you ain't no star" That was great advice. And your comment demonstrates how bad most folks are at selling guitars. They run off most of the good customers and coddle a few local players they think are Gawwwwd. They give them half price deals and over charge strangers. Many stores deserve to fold.
Again…this..
This! When I went to a guitar shop I always went through my newly learned licks at home, thinking "Yeah, I'm gonna try that Les Paul they have playing that Skynyrd lick" but when I was there I couldn't remember it...
I had a friend in TN who opened a small shop - he was even a Taylor and PRS dealer. He went out of business because people would come in to try guitars, then go buy them online - he couldn't afford to function as a showroom for online retailers without making the sale - imagine that.
They all share this common problem.
Maybe your “friend” wasn’t a good salesman. Plus, did he follow these people home and staked out their house until their guitar from an online store came in to know all his potential customers were doing that??? 😂
@@SunnyDiegoProduction Maybe you should refrain from offering an opinion when you don't know what you are talking about.
It is better to remain quiet and have people wonder if you are a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.
It is a two part cycle...The shop owner doesn't want to be a showroom for non-buyers, and real customers don't want a scratched 5k guitar. Other than vintage shops, real cool shops, they are going bye bye.
While I appreciate your perspective, I prefer to play the exact instrument I'm going to purchase. I've played several guitars and basses of identical models and one will "tell" me that it's the one that I need to buy.
The thing I miss most about little independent shops is all the used and vintage stuff. Finding cool, old, cheap, oddball gear was the best.
Couldn't agree more...where else am I going to get NOS tubes at a reasonable price and with a fair return policy?
Agree it is the vintage stuff that made the experience
Everything in Dayton has gone south also. And GC is barely holding on. We are only 1 1/2 hr from Sweetwater. Having said that Sweetwater is online for there Gearfest again. Not good. Gearfest was fantastic for the consumer. Now is that gone forever? Is this the beginning of the end?
Yeah that's true and the whole community thing they are saying too I love hanging out in used guitar stores, good comment
Pawn shops!
You can say the same thing for traditional hobby shops: model kits: planes, ships, RC models, tools and supplies, magazines, etc. They're all gone . . .
Yep thats true too👍
Nobody shops at music stores when Amazon Musician's Friend and Sweetwater exist
Yes, analog hobbies have for the most part bitten the dust, a sad sign of the times 😢
yes, you are right! 😢
Amazon killed small business. Worse, they don’t have competition. Bezos and China are cleaning house with that horrible monopoly.
An issue for smaller shops, which I don't think you covered here - many of them could survive on just selling a few guitars every week, because their bread and butter income comes from selling all the accessories - strings, picks, straps, cases etc. BUT now many people won't make the effort to travel to a store to buy these when they can get them next day through Amazon, eBay, Reverb without having to leave their house, fight their way through the traffic, find somewhere to park and all the rest of the hassle. It's not worth the time and expense when they know what they want and can easily order it online. So losing that small but steady income that pays the rent is what I think is really killing many of the stores.
That used to be correct (Accessories). Now if you don't have a luthier or at least a tech you are leaving a lot of $$$ walk out the door. I run a repair business in Florida and stay busy year round. Guitar shops won't pay a luthier what they are worth and thats a big problem. Guitar Center called me and asked if I would do their set ups and repairs. I asked why the pay was (4 years ago) they said they could start me at $10.50 and hour. Laughable! My shop rates are $60.00 per hour and I don't stock shelves or clean the restrooms.
@@tomwelgos9691 I would never let GC "fix" my guitar. I am sure a few of their people in that role are OK, but odds are anything I can't do is going to be over their head, or they will, at best, be a chapter ahead of me in learning.
Of course, I almost never go into a GC anyway - they are weak sauce.
I guess that’s how lazy convenience is making us. Soon we’ll all live our lives online.
All quite true. And the important thing about it is that there's a certain type of customer who would walk in the door fully intending to only get strings or picks or a tuner and walk out with a new guitar that was an impulse buy. That traffic simply isn't coming through the front door any longer.
@@edema.3418 why does that automatically make someone "lazy"? If I don't take the time to fight the traffic and parking to go to a guitar store, and instead order online, I would use that time to get things done around the house, go mountain biking, go hiking, go fishing, or even *gasp* practice my guitar...
I started playing bass a couple of years ago. My first bass (a Squier Affinity) was purchased locally. The shop checked it out before it went out the door, but told me to bring it back after playing it for about a month so they could see it after it had been broken in. Turns out the neck was somewhat warped. They ordered me another instrument. As it turns out, the second (a Classic Vibe bass this time), had truss rod issues which came to light a couple of weeks after I took it home. Again, they wanted to see it after I'd had it a while, discovered the problem, and they got me another replacement. I can't imagine the hassle I would have had if I'd had to deal with those issues with an online retailer. I feel really fortunate I have a good local shop. They will continue to have my business as long as they're in business.
In my local town in NW Indiana, we have a GREAT guitar / musician store called Dynamite Music, owned by a professional musician. When I walk in there I am greeted like a friend, and I am able to rely on their expertise. They help me purchase not only what I need, but what I can afford. They provide lessons, repairs and advice that you cannot get on-line or at a huge conglomerate places. Long live the small "mom and pop" stores.
Billy O' rocks! Dynamite Music is my go-to !
Billy o’s!!! Yep bought a few guitars from billy. Loved going in that place. Never knew what guitars you might see.
I worked in a local music store for 30 years(NYC). We went from close to 30 employees to 4. The cause is the Internet, on line shopping , big box stores.
Manny's in NYC was great, are they still around
maybe they should raise their prices even more and not have any clue at all of the business world
Another aspect of this I think is the lack of investment in Music and arts as a society as well. We’ve been pushing kids out of music and the arts for the last thirty years or so. Leading to a lot of kids being disinterested in learning an instrument since it’s pretty much viewed as a dead venture unless you are in the 0.02% of top talent or have rich parents that can fund you not doing anything but practicing and chilling out. I know Baxter and Co are boutique sellers but I really think the end of the guitar store comes down to the general disinterest people of my generation( Gen Z) have in mastering an instrument, so those low end sales just aren’t biting as they used to. At least here in the United States, now back in my home country of Japan, it’s a different story
Yep, this generation is not into rock and guitars anymore , 30-40 years ago, every other teen dreamed of being a rock star like a Van Halen, Jimmy Page or Keith Richards, today, not so much
It's not just about being into it. The cost of living is insane. Things that aren't absolutely necessary are going to go to the wayside. This a result of corporate greed raising fuel rates, hosting, insurance, etc., and no one is talking about how big those factors are for young people... my nephews don't have the time, nor space, to have or learn a guitar. They're forced to not collect things or be let down by what they want, but can't have.
@@KennONealyep. Plus wage stagnation and massive inflation of guitar prices over last few years. Especially here in UK
Wage stagnation here in the U.S. since 1973.
You are correct. I’d say there is a few other big reasons…
1. Rock (any mainstream music with the guitar being a big part of the songs) is DEAD
2. Way too hard to make money. Kids these days were born into having free music with a click of a mouse or phone.
3. Rock is dead
4. Phone recordings of live shows/streaming shows. Don’t need to go to a show when every is recording them. Does a recording give you the experience of being there? Of course not. But, if you’ve binged watched a lot of a bands tour from recordings, I’d say you’d not be so inclined to see them. Maybe I’m wrong
5. Rock is dead
I hate the idea of only buying online. Going to a decent guitar store is like serious therapy for me. Just being around the gear, feeling it, hearing it. You can really cut through a lot of choices quickly just by feeling a neck. They have 8 fuzzes, two you saw online, you can figure out then and there which one to go with. So much internet and UA-cam smoke and mirrors can be dispelled if you can try some classic amps vs newer amps, in person and back to back. Same with guitars. Often you can be surprised at which one was better for you. The thought of buying an acoustic without playing it first is an absolute no. I know online places will have return policies, but you have to take the time to ship it back, wait for a refund. Then wonder how many returns they’ll allow before cutting you off. But you literally could play 5 Gibson’s of the same model before finding the right one. Bottom line, the gear can be as an emotional connection as much as the music we make with it. Unless you’re running in to just get strings or a quick accessory before a gig a visit to a good store can refresh a musicians soul.
Truth!... apart from you need to find a store that stocks all the items you want to compare/demo. Usually without having to drive between lots of different stores. Not as easy as it sounds theses days. Even the bigger stores seem to have allegience to certain brands. No chance most 'Mom & Pop' stores can offer the choice
@@ThePedroDBComes down to luck of the draw on where you live, I guess. I’m lucky that I have 1-3 decent (1 of those being excellent) sole proprietorships in my city and even though they’re a drive for me, on a day off it’s worth it. GC I only visit to see what might be there used as they’re new selection is all too either budget orientated or super expensive.
Agree. I would buy a car part online but never a guitar. Way too precious to be thrown around in the mail.
I agree with what you are saying. I will say this and we are starting to see it happening now. Sweetwater is a publicly owned company and it takes about 2 years for things to start changing. The board will begin looking for ways to add to the bottom line. That usually means they start messing with the employees and then the customer service starts to take a dive.
Sweetwater used to provide excellent customer service.When I had an issue with something earlier this yearI contacted them and they didn't even respond.
From my perspective I think that has already happened there.
They just sent me a bass with a dead 6th fret... some 55 point inspection lol.... waste of time sending it back etc...
In my Chicagoland suburb growing up in the 80s I knew two local music stores that seemed to cater to school band kids or sold organs and horns. Going to Guitar Center from that perspective was amazing; not only was it clearly “rock” and “young” it had so many options - it was like when all they had was lager and then you find a bar with 100 different beers, half imports. Flash forward to this year and I am looking to buy my first good amp. I was shopping in Atlanta and thought, I’ll go to Guitar Center, I can try a bunch of different ones on my medium-short list. They had almost nothing I wanted! And no one able and willing to help, really. So I look online and find Atlanta Discount Music, take an uber out there. Fantastic gents, tons of fun things to try, learned stuff too. So cool. Wasn’t ready to buy an amp yet so I got a cable. I hope they are doing well, they sure did me right.
Just quit my job at Sam Ash
Most of the time was trading used gear, posting online, and then getting blamed why no one is buying in store & getting written up for min wage/no commission.
At least I left with a lot of cool gear
Most of the guitar music shops I’ve ever been in have been quite hostile to be in. I’ve always felt I’m considered a nuisance to them. Very unfriendly places to be. I’m not surprised they are falling off.
I mostly get that vibe at the big stores like Guitar Center. At some of the smaller independent stores, I am / was on a first name basis with most of the help. Sure you get the know it all types who think they're better than everyone else, but I've made a lot of friends over the years at the independents.
@@chidoquest8759 You must of bought an expensive guitar lol.
@@cooloutac I did buy a Gretsch Nashville at one of the stores once, so yeah maybe now that you say it.
Enjoyed this. 25 years working for a mom n pop that had a global reach, all the way up to the last day…. I think an additional reason you’re seeing the closings, is because those dealers that started out in the late 70s and early 80s, have finally retired. They’ve attempted to find buyers for their store, but end up only finding buyers for their retail property.
I watched a large number of these owners, who I have wild respect for, all scramble to try to sell their businesses to David when Reverb and CME were really peaking. They were ready to retire, and nobody was stepping up.
And many of those dealers took the real estate money. Bird in the hand. Nothing wrong with it at all. Once the potential buyer of the business does the research that you are talking about, they realize it’s too much of a demand from the manufacturer, and then they’ve gotta re-up with the new color or feature, every six months, whether they’ve sold their old stock or not.
It’s tough.
And it’s not unique. I’m sure Macys gets pushed when skinny jeans go out of style and they’re forced to stock bell bottoms… in a thousand locations!
The shop I worked for is missed. A 50 year run, loyal customers, all the good brands, as well as the unique and up comers… we tried to keep the place appealing and stroke the curiosity of our local, regional, and global customer base. And it worked.
But in the end, the building was worth far more than the name. And that’s disappointing. The building still sits vacant, over a year later. May make a nice parking lot someday.
Drag.
If you guys ever wanna do an on screen visit, I’d be thrilled to chat with ya.
gearmanndude@hotmail.com
Yep. Old enough for Hotmail. 😂
Another thing l have noticed is people's children don't always want to carry on their parents' businesses.
There was a great local pizza place, but as the parents got older, their kids would rather install car stereos etc.
no one wants to hassle with retail now, old folks are leaving and younger people don't want to take over
I saw the buy now and pay over six months at Sweetwater. I thought about getting a pricey Martin that way. I watched this video and went to the Fret House instead. There I found an American Dream Taylor AD17-E new and on sale for 1,299. I played it and loved it. The owner was in there and helped me. He has helped me many times over the past 40 years. I thought, why was I going to Sweetwater when these guys are here. I have a year of free support for set ups or string changes or tweak's. My wife was with me and I sat down in their amp room to try it. I remembered that my friend knew them pretty well and me and my band mates once got to practiced in that room on a particularly hot day last summer for several hours. The Fret House, I cannot forget thee.
My situation is a bit different. Helped open/manage a new store in 2017, then the owner decided to close this year. I negotiated a deal for the existing inventory, leased a new space, then opened my own shop within 60 days. With myself being the 'face' of the other shop, regardless of changing the name/location, I'm fortunate many have followed me. BTW, I'm only 90 minutes away from Sweetwater.
That’s what these guys fail to mention, most guitar shops suck lol just a bunch of dudes on their high horses living in the 90s, you’re obviously different and people like that and continue to shop there for that same reason. If you provide good service people will keep coming back!
Incredible episode which could honestly be a podcast series on the state of the business.
0:40 Baxter is lonely
1:20 Sweetwater = Wal Mart without people in pajama bottoms
4:30 Let's go into debt
5:16 Casino Guitar's Financial Advice Minute
8:00 Pro Audio Star Shout out
8:50 Witness Protection Program Participant's Opinion
9:50 Baxter talks about his plot for a coup
12:23 FBI informant is back
15:50 Siskel and Ebert
18:33 More prolitariat vs. bourgeois talk
The parallels happening in the bicycle industry are amazing. Small bike shops can't keep up sales with the influx of large direct online offerings. The direct sales folks have greater reach and less overhead, so can offer lower prices. This was exacerbated during the pandemic, as the supply chain - largely from Asia - came to a slow crawl. Demand during the lock down exploded, while bicycle shops were low on product, and what little available was high priced. This not only affected sales of complete bicycles, but the availability of parts for repairs, etc. Now that supplies are again available, and with the waning of the pandemic, there is less demand and shops can't afford keeping excessive inventory. Huge online sellers have a large advantage.
I’ve made a lot of purchases from Sweetwater. I agree that their customer service is great. But one thing I’ve noticed is they seem to have some turnover that makes me look around a little more. Their greatest asset is as always is their people. Hopefully they’re taking care of their people and the customer service remains consistent.
A thought, completely made up; I had some friends years ago that worked sales at Dell in Nashville. It was non-business phone sales, customers calling in for assistance in buying a computer, and hopefully getting a good deal
Pay was good, and the sales staff were taken really good care of, with regards to free food and snack, comfortable desk areas, fun team activities, etc…, but if you weren’t meeting your numbers there was a lot of pressure to improve or you’re fired. They all started there bragging about how cool it was, and the pay, and all eventually began calling the place Hell, and we’re fired for not meeting sales numbers
From what I hear a lot of customers would call to get help, and then would hang up and order the computer online themselves, so sales staff would give their time and not get commission
I’m sure that’s normal for phone and online sales support staff, give or take the commission pay
@@honkytonkinson9787 Do you really believe that everyone is going to read that tome?
Al Capone did 11 years for the same crime as c§nter bite-off. Is anyone surprised?
@@henrydiaz720
The adults in the room have an attention span longer than a Tweet.
I love Sweetwater. My guy, Nicholas Weaver has been there as long as I’ve been buying from them which has been at least 10 years. Maybe there has been some turnover but I haven’t seen it. I also like ZZOUNDS. They have a great customer service center and can sometimes get a better deal. I’ve had absolutely no issue with returns from them either. The one huge issue with both is they use Fed X which is completely unreliable and terrible where I live. I’ve told both companies I will stop doing business with them if their shipping service doesn’t change. They admit they’ve had a huge amount of complaints about Fed X but….. I do love local music stores too!
In Toledo two longtime shops have closed also due to the owners getting of a certain age and retiring. One was the second series of owners who retired. One other is a great shop for kids, accessories, but no major brand instruments and amps due to either Guitar Center having the franchise or the "floor plan " costs are crazy!
I wonder if smaller shops would benefit from setting up regularly scheduled Jam nights for their communities? The shops could benefit from increased visibility and sales and musicians could meet others with which they might be able to form bands and do collaborations. Thanks for the realistic view of guitar stores in modern times!
True. I see music as a way for people to get together. Music stores should be community gathering places.
Such was a concept I experienced around the SF bay area back in the late '60s sponsored by various well-known shops and it worked. Countless bands were formed, many we know today, collaborations galore and the gear kept moving.
I've been playing the guitar for about 40 years. When I was young, I spent quite a bit of time in the music shop, trying out gear, asking for tips and repairs. then I moved and the shops in my area ...they didn't let anyone touch the instruments, gave snappy answers to my questions. By now, I have know instrument builders, do a lot of stuff myself. I know (and own) quite a bit of gear and any reviews I get on the internet. The things I want isn't available at the shops - and last time I ordered something, they showed me the item on the thomann page to check if that was what I meant - and charged me a slight extra amount for their effort, when I did order it. The extra that shops offer is customer service and the ability to try out stuff - especially when you are young. And that's when you build up loyalty. I'd have paid extra at my old music shop, now I usually order via thomann, which is quicker and cheaper.
It's amazing that you posted this at this time. My local shop, Brandham Music in Manning SC just shut the doors after years of being in business. I saw one of the owners the other day and he told me someone offered to buy the building (going to be a a Pizza Parlor) and with the state of their business they had no choice. These guys were old (60-70) and they worked the store by themselves, primarily one guy. A sad day for sure but the writing was on the wall. They couldn't afford to keep the stock they needed to compete with MF or SW. I'll miss them for sure. It makes me wonder how long GC is going to be around. My last visit to the one in Columbia was less than satisfactory. Low on stock (not 1 SG in the store) almost no floor help (2 guys) and messy.
I own a shop and I admire Sweetwater. They are good and also, folks that buy there bring their instruments to us for service. What really fries my ass is manufacturers selling direct. Especially when they hold back inventory to sell direct and put my orders on back order. I’ve actually recommended items to customers only to find out it’s back ordered but the the customer points out that they can get it overnight with free freight direct from the manufacturer.
When I buy direct from Fender, I don't worry about getting a used instrument shipped to me as new. Sweetwater and you? I'll never know what I'm going to get. There ya go, that's why.
Manufacturers having their cake and eating it too. That is bad business.
@@user-gl7xm3kf3y When you get a guitar from us it’s new and set up and you’ve got us for continuing support. Come by sometime. 👍. We pretty much sell local and we know many of our customers by name when they come in.
@@user-gl7xm3kf3y no only that even though fender has in their disclaimer they'll charge you for a return. They NEVER do. Sweetwater has been known to. Online shops like sweetwater are definitely not the issue. ANd the guitar industry has been dying long before these manufacturers started going direct.
I've been a customer of Sweetwater since the 90s but I've never bought a guitar there. Guitars have to be played in person, they're all different.
Same, I’ve never ordered a guitar and I never will.
I agree - you should play the Guitar first and have at least 20
As a lefty I never have the opportunity to play any guitar I might want.
Fact is, there is more information available now to help people understand which guitar they might want than there has ever been without even having to touch it. From the shape and size of the neck, to pickups, the kinds of strings, body shape/style, etc. And the people at Sweetwater have been, from my experience, very helpful. More helpful than the cooler than god asshats at the local shops... who don't even have anything I can try anyway.
I've bought 24 guitars online.
Everyone plays great 👍
Everything from Sire (Larry Carlton) to Hard Luck Kings.
I seek out mom and pop guitar stores whenever I visit a city. It's gotten harder as years go by. I have tons of hats and t-shirts and guitars that bring memory of great trips. Support mom and pop before these disappear.
Excellent commentary, appreciate your candor on what can be a challenging business; thank you!
Great content, I love that you love the community people build around guitar shops and guitars ❤️
It's a sad, sad time for music shops - and has been here in the UK for over a decade now - as everyone, myself included, are buying from online retailers that can offer bottom dollar prices and convenience. In the UK, in my town, the one mom n pop store I use is a nightmare to park a car near. The one's in the town centre are even worse as it is almost totally blocked off from cars for pedestrians. When I go to my local small shop and walk in, even on a Saturday, it's like so quiet. In the past it was full of noise and people, but now the owner greets me like a long lost relative and is so pleased when I stock up on strings and a few spares like cables. I hope, each purchase however small helps a bit BUT they no longer stock a wide range of guitars and amps like in the past. There are no "bucket list" items in their store :( so I expect with the state of the economy, and the fact the owner is getting old, that even this small store will close in a few years. Glad to hear Casino is doing okay in all this, but the future does look grim with manufacturers looking to cut out the middle men who were the heart and soul of the business AND a major part of my musical education and inspiration as a teenager growing up. Tempus fugit, and the world changes, and more often not for the better.
At least Daddy Government kept us all safe and happy
Since you're in the UK, how is the Denmark Street music store scene doing these days? I remember not too long ago, that was the place to go in London and every time I went there the place was teeming with business and lots of foot traffic.
@@danielstoddart Denmark St and that scene remains strong last time I was up in London. Seriously rare and expensive guitars on sale as well as regular priced gear. London benefits from, well, being London and having the underground train system. Also, it's legendary status means it is a historical tourist attraction, like so much of central London. When you get out of London though, it's much harder as you won't get the foot traffic. Also, loads of bands are based in London and buy their gear from shops like the ones in Denmark St which, again, isn't the case elsewhere. Sadly the UK really is split between it's capital city and the rest of the country, with all the money in London. Kinda sucks for us hicks living elsewhere lol. Still, I got my banjo and my guitars. Not sure the world is quite ready for UK Country & Western music though 😂
You guys are spot on! It’s all about community. We love what we do as well and will continue to do our best for players. If you dudes are ever in Denver, stop on in we’d love to have ya.
I hate to see any mom and pop store close. Towns, cities, and communities are better and stronger with thriving mom and pop stores. But. big box stores and the internet have put a lot of them out of business. And it's a loss.
I walked into a Guitar store that had a few acoustic guitars I was interested in, cash in my pocket, none of the guitars were set up at all. The action was way high, and even though I went through and told the dude which ones I wanted to play, I had to tune every single one while the sales dude watched. This shop I guess sells mostly electric guitars and I have had a good experience buying there before, but this was pretty sad
I couldnt imagine working at a guitar store and NOT take care of the guitars :O
I love setting up guitars, intonating, straightening necks, fretjobs, making sure Floyd Roses stays in tune, all that stuff.
And lets be real there's not always people in the store so you might as well just sit around scroll facebook or something... But I would setup guitars and clean strings etc
@@cederickforsberg5840 not sure what you mean by this. I didn’t mention any specifics intentionally
@@chrisbartschiGuitar I replied the wrong coment about prices :)
This is my experience too.
In my experience, most of the time, the CS is atrocious.
And I understand it's because you're stressed cause you're almost out of business and here comes the 1000th Johnny Boy that is going to play all your stock for 10hrs and buy a pack of strings, but guess what, that's your market.
You can't treat your customer base as an annoyance then come crying when they buy elsewhere.
Also change your strings lads and lower those prices. I understand spending a little bit more for a guitar out the door, but 30% over the online competition is suicide
Was going to visit the Nashville area and wanted to buy a low end acoustic for a Nashville tuning (so I could say "I bought that one in Nashville" :-). Found Shuff's music in Franklin TN and called ahead of my trip and explained what I was looking for. They stated that they were not a dealer for that brand, I said ok and that I would stop by anyways on my trip. Went to the shop when I said I would on the phone call. The owner had reached out and found an acoustic that was similar to what I had mentioned on the phone and brought it into the shop, not even knowing if I would actually show up like I said I would. It was perfect! She put on the Nashville tuning for me and shipped it back to my home for me. So impressed by the service!
You guys have a great shop(I was there last Monday), I'm sure you will be fine. I did buy a hat :)
Layaway beats the Interest rates but requires you to Wait to take Guitar home once its paid in Full and usually 4-6 months. it was the only way I could afford the 2020 Slash Victoria Goldtop, that I probably wouldn't have bought without a Layaway Option. Just remember to Work your Deal First and then ask for Layaway so Seller doesnt build in a Layaway fee
I heard Guitar Center is ending layaways. Very sad if true… 1/2 the stuff I’ve bought I got on layaway
@@prd004.2 My layaway was from Pawn Shop, that keeps its best Guitars in back room and only brings them out by request
We had a thriving music store scene a few years ago with several mom and pop music shops, most of which were guitar-centric. Then, Guitar Center. Within a year, virtually all of those shops were gone. And now Guitar Center is on the ropes.
You guys offer great insight into the guitar world. Thanks !!!
Two tiny guitar sales & repair stores, in my town and an adjacent one in Tennessee, closed within about 30 days of each other in December 2022/January 2021. I was bummed to see both go, but I still get my gear worked on by one of the former owners. Also consider: those shops have paid shipping etc. already, and the price you see for online stuff doesn't figure that in. Plus, you won't know whether an instrument purchased online has that magic "zing" until you can play it for yourself.
exactly I don't buy into the fact that online guitar shops are closing them down. Its just the fact noone has the money to buy these expensive guitars which are mostly chinese trash nowadays. And noone wants to deal with the sales people who are rude or trying to upsell them. It is what it is man. Someone in this day and age tells me they have a nice acoustic guitar I assume their a fkn snob.
Let's be honest owning a music store is much like being a musician. If you're not doing it for the love of music you probably aren't going to last forever because you're not going to get rich at it. Add to that, the limited extremely inventory also (by comparison). A lot of the mom & pop store owners are getting to the age where they want to retire also. And now there is online competition that offers virtually anything you could ever desire at the click of a button that you can have by the end of the week. People miss nostalgia but do we fret (pardon the pun) there are no longer carriage builders for horse drawn carts?
I see the mom & pop stores headed the way of K-Mart. If you raise the pricing of dead inventory you're only hurting yourself in the end.
No, I can't find a carriage shop anywhere anymore but I CAN take a test drive, kick the tires, look under the hood and smell the interior before I buy a car at my local auto dealers.
Great discussion. We are in a Use it or Lose it phase in the marketplace. I love visiting the guys at my guitar shop. They always encourage me to pick up a guitar to see how I like it. I would mourn their closure.
Twin Town Guitar Shop, South Minneapolis, was the original store location for Roger Benedict Guitars. (3 blocks from my house.) Big Head Todd and the Monsters dedicated their 1st CD to Roger. His main guitar build was a semi-hollow strat with an F hole like Eric Johnsons. Bonnie Raitt, Jackson Browne, Stevie Ray Vaughan and many more used his "Groovematser" guitars. Thanks for a Great one.
I like to support my local community guitar store, but they have a limited stock of a lot of things. I end up checking my local G/C. When it's not available there I buy online.
Ive been to many guitar stores where the owners are just grumpy and unpleasant and it makes me cautious about even entering one if I see one. Mostly applies to smaller guitar stores. Bigger ones there's more privacy.
Yes, big and impersonal stores are great for people with personality disorders.😂
@@alanpettibone If I got to a small store I expect to at least be reasonably treated if you want my business. I agree with Cedrick. If I get treated better somewhere else why should I pay for abuse? It has nothing to do with personality disorder.
Yeah just coz its small doesn't mean its good, Amazon for me with that kind of attitude for sure👍
I agree and thats been my experience for 20 years.
Many people have an experience where someone in a guitar shop was rude to them. Or put too much sales pressure, or ignored and did not offer help. Customer service builds a business and keeps it afloat. There is too much online competition. I hope the good guitar shops keep doing what worked for them and also can adapt to change. Stores that do not deliver good service will hopefully weed themselves out first. There are also 5 luthiers and 100 guitar techs in every town now. The tech in the store better be damn good and make the customer happy. They'll only get one chance.
Hi Guys! I've been very fortunate to visit your store, and love the way you have it laid out! The smaller, different rooms serve to make your store a very inviting, intimate experience in that unique, vintage building! Your brand offerings and one-of's are outstanding! And your knowledgable, friendly staff feels authentic and invested in the effort. You guys are a "must visit" for me & my friends. Thanks for sharing your view on this subject! Southern Pines/Pinehurst/Aberdeen is very lucky to have you!
Sounds cool. Hope I can visit someday when I am in that State.
I think a lot of the problem is the snobbery that many shop owners and employees have. I have been in shops that have this very attitude and had a pocket full of money to buy an instrument. You can't deny that many shops judge you as soon as you walk in.
Gun stores WERE like THAT. You ask one question and get a 1 hour lecture on history of firearms.
you should compare this to all the camera shops that have disappeared....
Great comparison!!!
I was thinking of the exact thing. My local camera shop closed, I’m assuming of COvID-19. Moreover, it was struggling before the pandemic. Customers would come in and compare prices and then search the Internet for a better deal. I miss the days before the Internet. I would prefer local small mom and pop shops but the big box stores are taking over. We have seen malls disappear, maybe we’ll see the big box stores disappear also within time. It seems like everyone is preferring on-line shopping for the convenience. It has become the normal.
Let's be honest. Buying new guitars online when they cost less is buying better. As I customer I don't care about paying for the shop rent increase in expensive locations, I want to pay for gear! If I go to a shop I have 10 options and I can't try them all as much as I want anyway, if I buy online I have all options! What changed the game are you tube reviews, which are awesome! I think shops should be for second hand gear and second hand/vintage guitars only. With all the boomers collectors dying soon, vintage will become most frequent and hopefully more accessible to anyone. Times change, shops need to change too. Customers don't care and they shouldn't care, because it's not their business to care.
I always found you’re never as excited seeing a guitar on a website as discovering your next purchase that you can play at a local shop.
What you can't do when you buy direct from Martin or Taylor - play your new guitar before you buy it!! Not all guitars are equal. I like to find that one guitar that tunes perfectly, has the best tone, and just plays better in my hands. If we lose all the dealers where you can go play 5 or 6 models before buying THE one, I don't know that I will be buying too many more guitars. Hang in there, you guys!!
Exactly! I don't want to order a guitar online and hope it's as good as the one I tried in the store. I like messing with it talking to the employees at the shop. Jammin with people in the store etc. Ordering online takes away the spirit of buying the guitar in the first place
@@dukerufus5334 noone plays a good guitar in the store and then goes and buys the same model for the same price online and rolls the dice. If anything the employees in the store are snobby or rude and the customers don't want to give their money to them. Especially when most people can't afford anything expensive anymore. Which is usually the case in small shops. The other issue is guitars are expensive and everything is imported from china now. People just aren't buying acoustic guitars anymore cause they aren't worth it. the only guitars being sold alot are the cheapest fenders and yamahas, literally.
It is my understanding that the manufacturers use local shops for warranty work, if so the shops should all work together. One way might be to start an online database and register all of the instruments sold by local shops. Then turn away any warranty work for instruments sold by the manufacturer. If they are forced to open and staff regional repair centers it would increase their cost for direct sales.
Financing makes more sense as guitars and equipment have gotten extremely expensive. There are a lot of guitars that cost more than some cars I have purchased.
Isn’t Reverb a big part of this equation? For me personally is either Reverb, Amazon, sweet water or direct, in that order. I always think of Reverb as a behemoth with total domination of the used market
Yeah but amazon… questionable choice there sir
@@Tiptronics tons of unbeatable deals on pedals, strings, capos etc. not guitars
In part yes but the old addage of hitting the pawn shop for a deal has almost disappeared. Most pawn shops (at least in my area) have gouged the prices so bad I'm better off buying new from online retailers. Which is where Reverb filled a missing part of the market.
I say the following from a place of sadness, not righteous anger. I just wish small shops were better and they really could be if they chose to be. I know that it's tough for a small business (I work at one). Some are AMAZING. Many small shops are as bad as GC or slightly better, a lot of us probably have to shop online anyway. I'm all for supporting small local businesses but I also expect some things from them that an internet retailer doesn't offer; better customer service, a personal experience, the ability to play an instrument before I buy it. Since they often carry mostly lower end stuff or barely anything at all and don't really take care of it in their showroom it usually isn't a very good experience. If independent shops level up (Like Casino, Righteous, Walt Grace et. al) then they needn't worry. If they want to be a dingy hole in the wall with indifferent employees and poor inventory, well then natural selection will run its course I'm afraid to say. Some of it is simple stuff so it's even more annoying when a small shop doesn't check the box. Examples I've personally dealt with: greet your customers when they come in the store, chat with them, be friendly. Easy, costs you nothing. If Strymon releases a cool pedal, you should probably have it for sale rather than the same ten pedals you've carried since 1987. Clean your showroom. Seriously bro, a vacuum cleaner doesn't cost too much. If you don't have windows, put in good lighting. Why does it have to be a cave? If your Google profile says you're open at 9am, then you damned well better be open. If you don't want to be there then UPDATE google. It's not that tough. Those are just a few of the examples we all deal with in the town I live in. I don't even buy strings in town unless I'm in a jam because the experience is such a let down and this is my hobby. It needs to be fun for me to spend money. It isn't fun. We aren't all lucky enough to live by Casino or other stores that understand these basics. Sorry for the rant... I guess this has been really bothering me more than I realized! 😛
You nailed it. And how 'bout : quit selling stuff at cost to all yer drunken local guitar heros and then giving no discount to that mama buying strings for her sweet kid. And quit acting like a star when instead you are a salesperson working in a rather dirty little shop
100% agreement! A small shop CAN offer better customer support. If they chose not to, then 'see ya".
I am fortunate enough to have purchased about 10+ premium guitars in the last 3 years (don't tell my wife... ;-) ) and I never considered for a sec to buy one in a physical store. Just because I love Music and guitars, not the inconvenience of dealing with local, physical stores. Note I am 50+ - so I still remember retail stores!
The reason why small shops have to close down is not Sweatwater or some other "evil online store". The reason is simple: There is more value created for us / the customers online. Understanding what the customer wants (and not the seller or the guitar manufacturer) is key to survive and thrive!
And I don't think it's about price by the way. Just the convenience of shopping from home, simple return policies, great online training and reviews rather than talking to semi-professional sales people in a store is just more valuable for many people. I would actually be willing to pay MORE online if I don't need to go to a physical shop!!
Customer value matters - nothing else. How to create that? Don't complain about "big online stores" - Innovate for more customer value!!
Sorry to be very direct - Great channel - love your work! Thanks for doing this!!
Andreas
P.S.: Why do you not use your channel to promote great offers in your store? I am sure people will love it + place an order!
Don't you play a guitar before buying?!
@@LostMyMojo100 Not always, no. I've bought a few that turned out to be great surprises in a good way too. I know what features I want and if the guitar has it I'll take a chance. No different than trying a guitar first and months later finding out it just isn't the one.
@@LostMyMojo100 well kind of: With the return policies in place I could just send it back if I dont like it. But I have never done that so far.
I miss my old local guitar shop. I don’t live there anymore but it was sad when it disappeared. In memoriam: Gig Sounds, Streatham, London, UK.
I go back before the big box store existed, a little bit anyway. In the Seattle metro area there was a magnificent store in a southend suburb town that was huge right on main street. Bigger than the current Guitar center in Tukwila. That is the only shop that I got taken advantage of by as a naive high-school student. We had no way to price check etc. When I talked to my elder performing Musicians they chuckled and said it had happened to them in shops all around town. It wasn't until the Big stores came in that small stores began to compete. Do I like that fewer corporate stores are available? No! I do understand why though, and I believe the small stores left the door open for commercial take over years go because of a lack of ethics.
The local shops dried up years ago and can't say I miss the high prices, small inventory, and expensive repair costs.
There was a shop down the street from me, and I'd drive 20 minutes to Guitar Center and risk dealing with traffic because the shop was so bad. Limited on hand, higher prices, and you can't play the gear without permission.
My shop shut down in 2019. I miss Bear Hollow.
The thing that puts it over Sweetwater is that Neil-builds guitars. And for a lefty like me it’s priceless
Ah, Lefty's Lament. I too know it well: Often having to special order or getting lucky from someone posting theirs for sale. Never could bring myself to butcher a good righty for a lefty conversion. Most shops don't stock, the few that do may have onesy twosy at the bottom of the line.
Im sure we appreciate you as well! Fun to watch and nice to learn something new. Thank you guys. Oh i still need an sg 😂
Baxter said the three magic words: easy, cheap, and fast. The world of business, like the rest of the world, runs on unwritten rules, and the golden unwritten rule of business is a rule that can be reduced to simple arithmetic. Cheaper + Faster + Easier = Better. And C + F + E = Better always wins. Always. You don't have to like it, you just need to understand it.
What utter and total bulls#it.
You guys are lots of fun. Never heard of you before watching “Know Your Gear”🙏🏻
We lost a great small shop recently in Richardson (Dallas suburb), TX. Archie’s Guitars was an awesome little shop with tons of great stuff. Sad to see it go
It’s a shift in the customer base. Lots of older players already have the guitars they want. They aren’t actively in the market for additional guitars. The younger generation is used to buying everything online off a picture. So places like Sweetwater etc are doing well. There’s a lot to be said about playing an instrument before you buy it. Especially a guitar. No two are alike, even the same Brand and Model. I can’t imagine how hard it is to run a retail guitar shop today.
Happened years ago with Guitar Center. My town of about 100k had 3 or 4 that had been around for decades. The old refugees can be seen hanging out in the only game in town, GC, now. Bonus: Rock has been dead for at least 20 years, and kids don't care about guitars. GC is for buying strings if you need them right away and for the unsavory practice of showrooming stuff you can get online.
I just purchased a Taylor 724ce. One of the problems I had with local stores was two fold: customer service, and willingness to make a sale.
I wanted to go to local stores, but neither was open the day I had free, so I went to GC. Played the guitar, loved it, but there were some dings on it. I started talking price to the guy who was helping me and he just became a huge jerk about it, demanded I get the service plan if he took money off. So I left.
The next day I called the first local place. Told him I was interested in the guitar, that I had seen Taylor's go on sale before and asked him what his best price was. He said 3500, no sale price, it is what it is and basically hung up on me.
The other local place I called and no one answered. Called again later and no one answered. Sent a message to them on reverb and no reply.
Finally I reached out to Sweetwater. I had a local sales guy call me the next day. We talked about the guitar, talked about price, he asked me what he could do to earn my business and I told him the price I wanted to pay. He came back shortly after putting me on hold and agreed to it. I signed up for a Sweetwater card, got cash back from it, and in total with tax I saved over a THOUSAND dollars.
I love local shops. I want to do business with them. I'm willing to spend an extra hundred bucks just to get them a sale and help out. But I can't spend an extra thousand to do that, and they didn't give me the time of day.
The place I messaged on reverb sent me a message back a few weeks later saying that 3500 was the best they could do. I had already purchased the guitar.
It's not just that Sweetwater have me a better price - they worked with me, they talked to me and they asked for my business. They were there when I needed and they shipped it immediately.
I worked commission sales at a small appliance/TV store chain that started as a mom and pop place. We worked with people and were interested in their business. That hasn't been my experience in this purchase.
My local guitar shop is Mike Lull’s in Bellevue, WA. Especially when Mike was still alive, I was there every couple of weeks. Proud to own a Mike Lull bass, a T-style and an S-style. Very special to actually know the guy who made your guitar, talk about pickup selection, wiring options, etc.
I still want to play a guitar before I consider buying it. And I don't get why most people don't anymore
Within the past few years we began buying all of our musical instruments and equipment from Sweetwater. The reasons being, Sweetwater does extensive quality control, and 55 point checks on guitars, offers free shipping even on heavy PA equipment, incredible financing, and stands behind their inventory. Our local shop closed, and another, earlier on, could no longer sell Taylor as Guitar Center was the authorized dealer. Now that Taylor has gone direct, they are sold more widely. We buyTaylor acoustic, and mostly Schecter electrics. Our basses, drums, and other equipment and instrument brands vary.
I’m coming through in September…. Going to stay at a local campground for a few days…. Will be at your shop to buy my first acoustic.
Looking forward to meeting you all
Glad you guys are doing well! Love your shop, you guys are super down to earth and at the same time out there. If you guys ever need anything let me know at The Guitar Shop in Anderson, SC
I moved from Los Angeles to central Kentucky last year. I haven’t been in a position to buy just yet, but I’ve seen some cool shops here in the Lexington & Louisville areas that I can’t wait to go check out when I’m not so busy.
Here in a city of 400,000 people we have 12 local guitar stores and one guitar center. The most successful local shops either cater to vintage/unique instruments, school band instruments, pianos/orchestral instruments, lessons, or luthier services (or a combination of these). the shops that don't have a niche struggle. The shops have selection, cheap, or personal service but can only offer two of these. Shops that have selection and cheap are the guitar center big box stores. Personal service and cheap, there isn't much selection. Selection and personal service they aren't going to be cheap.
Hi, I have been dealing with Sweetwater Music for over ten years. They are #1 in my book. My personal sales engineer is Jeff Barnett. I rely on his help and he has never steered me wrong. Shalom/gw
I live in Philly and there have NEVER been any real guitar stores here, just a few small stores in obscure parts of the city proving they don't want any business anyway. I'm pretty convinced I'm the only person that plays guitar in this city.
Some ideas if I had a guitar shop (or the money to have one).
- make sure whatever you sell costs the same (after shipping) as it would to get online
- sell gear that is actually usable and decent and a good value (very affordable)
- sell various gear that also cannot be found readily online.
- do not 'pressure' customers
- let people just jam out and hang out if they want. Let it be a hang out destination That will attract people and make it more than just a store.
We used to hang at a he local shops when I was in highschool. It was like a coffee shop for musicians. I could noodle around for a month or more, and after I made a purchase, no one cared that I only bought strings, and pics after that. If guitar stores want to survive, they gotta get away from selling and get back to the music. The drum room used to have pros and amateurs doing a session. The salesman were also musicians.
Small shops survive today mainly through selling accessories, like strings, straps, capos, performing guitar set up and repairs, and teaching music lessons. Big brands like Fender, Gibson just won't sign exclusive dealerships with small shops and allow them to sell their products at a competitive prices. Moreover, we have much fewer guitar manufacturers than we think we do (Charvel, Jackson, Gretsch are under Fender). Small shops can survive though by selling vintage, used, or Japanese/Korean guitars.
Love watching your videos. Hope one day i can travel to meet ya'll.
I find that if your don’t open the store to impulse customers coming in and doing appointment only you will lose to the large big box music stores. Going this route of appointment only has stopped me from going to the Music Zoo and Southside Guitars in New York. I don’t want to ask them to bring out a few guitars only for me to try-some of the best guitars I found were by picking them up just running the racks. Hopefully the appointment only trend will stop. I can only hope.
If I have to make an appointment to check out equipment and spend my money... I ain't goin!
Guitars are a luxury item, they cost hundreds of dollars, and amps hundres of dollars, and people have less spending money & have less time to play. Even pedals are like $100 a pop. I've playing for long enough that Im treating my self to a nice set up. I'm up to like $1500 so far. Thats huge money, and nobodys gonna spend close to that unless they also been playing for years
The problem with Mom & Pop retailers is their limited inventory. I’m not talking about just the high ticket items but things like strings, picks, etc. I use certain picks and strings, nothing obscure, but local shops usually don’t stock them. That forces me to go online and once that happens, you know where that leads. It’s unfortunate but with so many different products available these days, it’s impossible for local retailers to stock a good selection.
Yeah that is the major frustration I have with shops. Never have strings...never have picks or even guitar cleaner. It's ridiculous. It's obvious they have no idea what the average player uses or needs.
It’s like every business, if you provide good service people will keep coming back, but the fact is most these places have 80s Rock Queens running their shops not interested in selling entry/mid level guitars(you know, where you can make lots of money) they’re more interested in their hairdos or those small shirts from their favorite bands they can barely fit into anymore lol
The other point is the make or break of a salesperson's commission is often not guitars or instruments, it's accessories. Strings, straps, polish, drum sticks, cables, etc etc. If you love your local shop but are not buying your weekly/monthly consumable supplies there, they won't stay in business long.
The 3 KILLER!!!! music stores back in 1980 in Colorado Springs, Colorado was High Country Music on the corner of Platte Ave & Nevada Ave. across from Palmer High School, Rocky Roller Music on Fillmore St., Colorado Springs Music on Tejon St. these Mom & Pop stores were the greatest and a lot of memories!!!! I bought my first Rickenbacker 4003 in 1980 from High Country Music. I miss physically going to these stores with your friends looking at guitars & amps and the whole experience and feeling you got when you walked in to these stores, the good ole' days gone!!!! SAD!!!!
Mom and pop shops in any venue, not just guitar shops are closing! Small guitar shops need a repair dept. and accessories for guitarists. You can’t just sell guitars but guys who are professionals players like me want to try guitars before you buy! Buying online is a big risk, you aren’t guaranteed a good functioning instrument even when it is seemingly like new! I’ve got a few stories about guitars! A couple of my guitars that I bought online needed work, they didn’t play well when I got them!
Mom and pops can't keep inventory like they used to. I went to my only local music store left in the are looking to spend some money. I was looking for a good acoustic guitar, and after looking around for almost an hour, all I could find was a stand and a few other accessories. I spent less than 250 bucks but I was planning to spend at least 2 grand. I couldn't find anything to buy there. This same store was once a Fender and Gibson dealer, but didn't have a single one of either. The most expensive guitar I found was less than 400 bucks.
I live in a small-town in Illinois & there is no local-shop anymore. I have to drive 45-minutes to Rockford just for a guitar center 🫤
I order everything on-line now.
I'm a Fayetteville, Arkansas guitar player, and I'm watching our local shop liquidate its inventory. It's a bummer. We'll be left with the big-box store, and that's also a bummer.
Part of the issue is, I think, the excess of choice that we enjoy these days - guitars, amps, accessories. How many brands and models of capos are out there? Tuners - same thing. Strings, cables...you name it. So much choice that small stores can't possibly stock the selection that people demand and alternatively can find at places like Sweetwater. Or Amazon. Even GC and Sam Ash stores can't possibly stock the million variations of the Fender Stratocaster that Fender has chosen to flood the market with.
the nearest store to me,walking distance,when i arrived in london,were pretty well stocked with guitars,but nowadays they have a few squiers,a few cheap shine guitars,and sometimes the odd gibson or fender,real nice helpful guys,i still buy my strings there,but they make most of their money these days doing repairs,and hiring out pa gear,which is ironic,as the small town i grew up in scotland,had a quite well stocked guitar store,i knew the owner personally,and bought and sold guitars there for a few years,they are gone now,but the town still has a decent store.whereas in london if i want to find a well stocked store,i have to take a bus journey,i also miss the stores that had big used guitar sections.there was also the advantage of playing before buying,so i miss guitar stores
I live near Cheyenne, WY, the biggest town in Wyoming.
There is no store in this town where you can buy guitars or strings, picks, etc.
We have a store that sells pianos, organs and supplies instruments for the schools.
My only options for guitar gear are online or driving 50+ miles to the nearest Guitar Center.
I still have the Martin D35 I bought in 1974. I buy strings from my local Music Shop, and they have band instruments. Trouble with instruments is they last and last. Accessories is the key to stay in business. Play every day.
It's the nature of technology and evolution of economics. It is not just guitar shops going through it, right now car dealers are about to disappear. And the reality is that it makes sense for someone to buy a car directly from the manufacturer and not have to pay dealer fees or the hassle of pressure sales of unnecessary services/guarantees. Sure that is a little different than guitar shops but the concept is similar. Maybe guitar shops can start offering better value, like a free set up, free changing strings when you buy them in, free classes, something to keep the foot traffic and added value vs buying online. I try to buy from mom and pop's shops as much as I can however it is very difficult when I can save 15 to 20 percent buying direct/online. Good topic and conversation.
Great video now. I want to see your shop !
I could apply this to retail in general, but into the context of music instrument buying through e commerce it’s not the convenience some think it is.
The key point with it is that you don’t get to try it in hand as opposed to going to a store in person. Why does that matter so much? Well it’s because no matter what guitar you play, every type of model is not going to be the same. I don’t simply mean that every guitar is built different from different brands or that each guitar has specific specs. I’m more referring to the fact that even trying multiple of the same model will yield slight differences in how each one feels as you play. No 2 fender, Gibson, PRS, or whatever ones you try will never be 100% the same for each guitar made.
All of what I just said up to here builds into the grander point of inconvenience. For an example, I went to a local guitar shop recently as they recently had a restock on some fresh gear including some Gibson SG models. One of them was an SG special, a guitar that’s been on my radar for a while, which I assume was made between 2021 and now cause it was in a Vintage Cherry finish. I tried it and played pretty nice, though the wrap around tailpiece was something the made the action feels little off compared to the tune o matic bridge of a standard or 61 sg which I normally prefer.
I didn’t get this guitar though. I actually bought another listing off Reverb for about $600 less than the other. Now that sounds like a contradiction to the my overall point, but I did it because it looked solid for a used guitar and it had a refinish from sparkling burgundy to tv yellow which made it distinct for the model. After I got though, what sold me was that it played real nice just barely beating out the Special I tried in stores it is a keeper for sure.
However, let’s say it wasn’t in this instance what played out and that I never tried the initial one in store. I went through all the trouble of paying for the guitar, having the owner get the payment to then package process the order and then ship it off. I wait several days and it finally arrived as is. If somehow i didn’t like it at all then I would’ve had to go through the whole process of a refund before reshipping it back to the owner and get my money back.
I think after a while it would just be a total pain and waste of my time to constantly take a gamble, even if a listen is brand new, to purchase a guitar without trying it at all. And that’s not even touching the rabbit hole of scammers and false listings which is another problem in its own right that piles onto the conundrum.
I can tell you one reason….lack of simple customer service. I am TRYING to spend over $3000 right now, and can’t even get a return email. In a time when communication and information is always at our fingertips…unacceptable.
I've been playing guitar since 1963 and frankly I make good choices and then keep them and I've had a few guitars and amps. Prices and big box stories are a burn. You don't need all that stuff.. All you need is a telecaster or SG with a Fender Champ amp to have fun. And friends don't let friends go to Guitar Center.
Music shops have two serious challenges; the same problem most brick and mortars have with internet sales and Walmart style superstores which can afford to purchase products AFTER confirmed sales, and second, there are less actual musicians of instruments than in previous generations. What would help is to always have music classes at the shops and also set up concerts to attract general population festivities. The other issue is to buy in bigger volumes to lower shop costs to lower sale prices. The idea of relying on distribution loyalty alone is obsolete.