Spider-Man 3: Is Sam Raimi's Spidey Finale Underrated?
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- Опубліковано 28 бер 2023
- Sam Raimi's Spider-Man 3 was despised by many fans when it hit theaters in the summer of 2007. People hated everything about it, from Tobey Maguire's weird dance moves as the "bad" Peter Parker, to the way Venom was presented in the film, being a character Sam Raimi notoriously hated. What went wrong? We spin a tangled web of studio interference and franchise fatigue in this episode of Marvel Revisited, which is written, edited and narrated by Kier Gomes.
Do you think Spider-Man 3 deserves all the vitriol? Let us know in the comments!
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It's definitely the weakest I wouldn't say worse the problem Sam Raimi was not a fan of Vemon and he had no creative control like the 1st two movie's
Goddamned Vemon...
#IBlameAviArad
@Red Beerd yeah he was not a fan of the character
@@jamesmorant1406 hard to be a fan of a character that doesn't exist ; P
Damn Vemon.
@@jamesmorant1406 That one went right over your head, didn't it! I'd add bad punctuation to the bad spelling.
*movies
Sam Raimi once said he would always be haunted by the fact he never made Spider-Man 4. He wanted that to be the best of them all, to make up for this movie, but couldn't make the planned release date and disliked all the drafts of the script, so he left and told Sony to go forward with the reboot. The closest we'll ever get of Spider-Man 4 is the concept art, storyboards, and previz Vulture fight online
#IBlameAviArad
Spiderman 4 should have been made. But idk about vulture as the villain.
Kraven should of been the villain
And all the scripts looked like garbage, so I’m sure he wanted it to be great, but I’m not sure he or the writers had any good ideas that didn’t retread old ground
No way home
Avi Arad: "Put Venom. It sells more toys."
Sam Raimi: "But I have everything planned out already. If I put Venom, it will be too crowded."
Avi Arad: "I don't care. Put Venom."
Sam Raimi: "But..."
Avi Arad: "Put Venom or I'm gonna put some dirt in your eyes."
Sam Raimi: "Okay, you want Venom? I'll give you Venom!!! Ashole."
#IBlameAviArad
Sam Raimi: ''You want Venom? Get religion.''
Sam Raimi said he had creative control on the first 2 movies, but lost it for this. If only Raimi could make this movie his way, we would have had something on par with previous 2 movies, and maybe even more Raimi/Maguire movies since we were supposed to get Spider-Man 4. But no, because Avi Arad and Sony stepped in. I'm not sure why they intervened since they should have noticed the critical and commercial success they had when they left Raimi alone
Spider man 3 was pretty decent all things considered
#IBlameAviArad
Greed, ego, greed, stupidity, greed, shortsightedness, greed and more greed.
I like the sandman scene at night. It's like when the sun rises, he's reborn a new man, shown even more by him learning to walk and use his powers. Giving him the choice whether to be good or evil.
Wonderful scene
Also it's a comic book movie, who cares how realistic it is. Like Venom literally comes from space but you have a problem with weird science shit
The relation between Peter n harry in this movie is awesome! When Harry comes back to save Peter gives me chills every time! - "just in the nick of time"
Harry’s Death is also very emotional
The amnesia plot was dumb tho, he did literally nothing till the end of the 2nd and 3rd act
I rewatched the entire trilogy just this past week and I gotta admit, I don't HATE this installment. It's not my favorite tho, either, but it has some really good moments and totally worth the watching.
All they needed was the Sandman. His story tugs at your heart.
That was the original plan, but studios suck
Joblo: "Be sure to subscribe."
Peter: "You'll get your subscribers soon as you fix this damn door!"
😂🤣🤣🤣
Spider Man 3 is honestly underrated and a wonderful conclusion to the Raimi trilogy
Agreed, I honestly never thought it was THAT awful, just weaker compared to its predecessors.
@@trinaq 👍👍
@@trinaqw
@@trinaq There are a lot of great scenes here. Maybe a reedit of the movie would fix it, like removing all the cringe dancing as an example
@@Omar-wq9dz the dancing was fun, honestly.
The movie wasn't too bad. Sandman should have been the main villain. If they wanted Venom, then Jamerson's astronaut son should have been the Symbiote host. Would have been more logical motivation wise.
Nostalgia Critic actually said the same thing, Jameson's astronaut Son should have been the Symbiote host for the same reason
I blame AVI ARAD for destroying Sam Raimi's ambition
Yea, we all do. No one likes him.
@@larcobr4686and now he's gonna ruin Borderlands and Kraven The Hunter
@@Zombiesnyder13 borderlands? What is he doing with Borderlands?
Bro you must be the biggest hater of AVI ARAD
@@thegreatpiginthesky3904 the same thing he did with Uncharted
I hope we see Toby again, my favorite incarnation.
Even after ruining everything
They gave AVI ARAD a big thank you in the credits of NWH
I think visually, the best scene of the movie is Sandman's intro. That scene still holds up today.
The editors cut is the best version of this movie, it takes a few scenes away that have no need to be there and changes the soundtrack and the film is so much more satisfying and really sad by the end leaving the emotional pay off we deserved.
I never heard there was such a cut. Do you know how to find it?
@Tim Walden It's in most recent box sets of the rami trilogy
@@NickJR528 No kidding? I bought it not too long ago to finally upgrade from my DVDs but haven’t opened it yet. I’ll take a look. Thanks!
That scene of Peter trapping Venom at the end is one of my favorite scenes ever.
I never understood the hate for this movies. I saw all three in the theaters, and I remember leaving the theater very happy after seeing this one.
I agree. I saw it twice in the theatres and the audience loved it. Didn't hear about any hate until long afterwards.
i watched it at the cinema back then, and i loved it. And at the time, i had no idea that some people disliked it.
I think it's nice that Toby and Andrew got a BETTER send off than they both got.
NWH was fantastic but I still like SM3
@@chasehedges6775 Its fine, but it wasn't a good ending for it's trilogy. As a viewer you want another.
@@dietdrpepper15 It was definitely a perfect ending, imo
@@chasehedges6775 agree to disagree.
@@dietdrpepper15 it was
I read those early comics when I was a kid, and was thrilled to see Sand Man so faithfully cast and portrayed. Bryce Dallas Howard was a breath of fresh air. I never tire of Simmons as JJJ. I laughed my ass off as Peter's dancing precisely because it was his nerdy perception of what a "bad boy" was supposed to be. And yes, this was my Aunt May... she was simply wonderful, as twice before. Topher Grace was the weak spot for me. I would have preferred to see a classic villain like Mysterio or The Rhino, either of which Raimi's touch would have been perfect. For me, the biggest problem was simply that it followed the single most perfect Marvel superhero film ever made, Spider-Man 2. Nothing is great after the greatest.
I think the best scene in the movie by far is the birth of Sandman. When the CGI and the beautiful music tell the story of an almost faceless character.
It's Citizen Kane compared to what the MCU has done in Phase 4, and so far Phase 5.
Absolutely agreed
One of the most misunderstood movies of 2007
I liked all 3 of them and Tobey Mcguire did a great Peter Parker/ Spider-Man 🕷
Sam Raimi is amazing
But I could feel his passion reduced in this one because of Avi Arad's interference
When you watch all three of them back-to-back it doesn't seem over-the-top. Just seems like a natural escalation of the story. Which it would need to happen otherwise it would become stale
I love and adore the entire Raimi trilogy. They remain my all time favorite films. Part 3,while flawed,is nowhere near a bad film. In fact,I consider it a damn good one. I wasn't too thrilled with how Venom was handled(being a massive Venom fan),but the movie is full of great action,heart and wonderful themes. I can understand why some may not like it,but to me it's wonderful! I loved it when I first saw it at a midnight showing in 2007 and I still love it today.
The curse of the 3 is a real thing.
it can’t be the worst if The Amazing Spider Man 2 is around
True.
Seems to be the general consensus here.
Sam Raimi didn't wanted to include Venom
AVI ARAD forced him to just so he could sell more toys
The crazy thing about the insane proliferation of the superhero genre in the past 20ish years is that it accelerates the process of re-evaluation of older films in the genre. Like, superhero films that are barely a decade old feel like lost, underappreciated relics of a bygone era today. Films like The Wolverine and Iron Man 3 for example (I always liked both from the jump, by the way) - met with divisiveness upon release, but stand up over time for having a strong directorial footprint, confident grasp on tone, theme, and story compared to what the genre has largely been for the past few years.
Hell, even Phase 1 of the MCU feels like a different franchise altogether than what the MCU is now.
Spider-Man 3 has a wild place in superhero film history. It was like, the last huge pre-MCU superhero film. It's kinda wild to consider Iron Man was only a year away from changing the game forever. Spider-Man is a clear dividing line between two vastly different approaches to making these films.
It was a huge hit, but was met with sheer hatred by the fans. It was, at the time, considered one of the worst superhero films ever made. Remembering we thought that back then makes me laugh in disbelief, because this film has so much fucking juice, as the kids say, it shames most of what we get now.
Even with all of Sony's interference, Spider-Man 3 still feels like a Raimi film with the Raimi energy, Raimi craft, and Raimi heart.
Yes, we all know of the films major flaws. It has truly dunderheaded contrivances, juggles too much - but despite all of this Raimi didn't phone it in. He tried like hell to give us the best film he could. And that CARE is felt when you watch the film.
I encourage all to seek out the Editor's Cut. While not a drastic retooling, it contains more of the Symbiote and its influence on Peter, a bit more character work for Sandman, rearranges the order of scenes, sips some stuff here, adds some stuff there, etc to make a more narratively smooth film. It still retains most of it's major issues, but the pacing is FAR more even and the narrative gives the characters more agency than they had in the theatrical cut.
Spider-Man three is underrated. I revisit it recently a lot sure it has his problems but it’s still a fantastic movie it is way better than amazing Spider-Man two and spider-Man far from home.
It’s definitely a lot of fun
True - it has energy at least.
@@JoBloOriginals 👍👍👍
Harry Osborn never "inexplicably" lost his memory, nor did he get it back "for no apparent reason." He was playing possum. He faked the memory loss so he could spend time recovering, plotting, and finding other ways to ruin Peter's life since he'd just failed an attempt to kill him directly. I thought it was obvious from the way he overplayed those scenes.
........Just no
To all of that
I’ve never thought of it that way. I think the memory loss was legit. He just remembered offscreen.
I know now as an adult that this movie had some behind the scenes issues do to the studio interference but I personally love the movies flaws and all
I actually liked Venom the most as a kid. Having given it a rewatch though, I can see why it's not as liked as the first two.
Not really, it was alright, but I definitely do prefer the 1st one and the 2nd one.
👍👍👍
The 3rd one was good for what it was but yeah, it definitely could not live up to the first 2
I like it overall, but it is a step-down from certainly Spiderman 2. It is a satisfactory conclusion to the storyline, in my opinion, and should be appreciated for all that is good about it. It just a bit disappointing when the first two movies of a trilogy are SO good, then the third movie isn't quite the grand conclusion that you go in wishing it to be. You could say the same about Return of the Jedi, Back to the Future 3, The Dark Night Rises, ....ect
A fix that might have worked (though it definitely would've caused a huge outcry from comic purists) was to make the symbiote join with Harry since such a big part of that storyline requires the symbiote to bond with someone who hates both Peter and Spider-Man. You could even hedge your bets and make him not quite a full-Venom character but like a half-Venom/half-Goblin. Maybe have Eddie Brock in the movie and then have a stinger where he finds a bit of the symbiote to keep the fandom at bay.
Surprisingly 3 wasn't half bad , yea they went & introduced too many villains but Raimi still managed to bring their stories to an end & that I appreciate.
Just my take on how he did that :
1) Eddie being at the church wasn't a coincidence but something foreshadowed. When Eddie gets fired and Bully Maguire says want forgiveness , get religion and Eddie only decides to go to church after he find Peter and Gwen at the club which is where Peter realises what the suit is doing to him so all these events happen in the same night at the same time so it wasn't a loose end.
2)Harry's amnesia after the accident makes sense cause it was spiderman that pushes him down his path to hobgoblin so anything prior to him finding out Peter was spiderman was under trauma so those memories were blocked out. Him switching sides at end was also tied up cause he learns the truth behind his father's death.
3)And Flint not being Ben's killer isnt a retcon but a continuation from 1 cause in 1 when Peter finds the guy , he recognises him as the crook he let go which got Ben killed so that was tied up in 1 , he went after Marko under the influence of the symbiote which was making him aggresive and not listen to reason as he saw both Marko & his partner as murderers of Uncle Ben.
So it's a good movie that ties all it's loose ends without leaving em open and ends the trilogy.
I still love this Spidey movie. Seen it 3 times in IMAX way back in 2007.
2007 was such a good year for movies
@@chasehedges6775 Yea, even got Transformers. That was like amazing. Then it all went downhill after the first. I still like Dark of the Moon then the other 3 crap Transformers.
@@zagariasbooysen7401Totally agree
it has problems, but is still a solid and well made movie all these years later. Raimi deserves to make at least one more and it would work so well with it ending in a way that leads into secret wars
You also touched upon an important point that was explained poorly in the movie. Peter acting odd and dancing around and such was a dorky guy's perception of what a cool guy is. It makes sense when you are aware of that. I will admit I myself didn't get that til someone told me.
NOPE not the worse Spider-Man movie at all. That dishonor goes to The Amazing Spider-Man 2.
We’re inclined to agree.
I remember liking it more than 2 but that's just me, remember also not liking X-Men 2, i guess i was so invested on the first ones that i kinda grew up in between movies, then when i got the chance to see spiderman 3 liked in a way as a moving comic book, like Daredevil
Spider-Man 3 is my favorite out of the three. I get hate for it but I don’t care. I liked the darker tone
Despite its flaws from both Sony and Avi Arad, I don’t think this is a bad movie to end off a trilogy. But as you rewatch it over time, you may eventually like it or dislike it, but it also makes you wanting more of it. I hope Sam Raimi and Tobey Maguire return for a Spider-Man 4 if it ever happens.
That Sandman story line could have been much deeper. Unfortunately there was not enough movie for it to grow with the forced Venom arc.
Sandman was probably the most well made character of the movie
I've always loved this movie
One of the most underrated films of 2007 as a good superhero movie
It's overcrowded, certainly. I agree with your love for Aunt May and J. Jonah Jameson. What strikes me most is the attention they used to pay to special effects. The time and effort that was put into some of those sequences should be afforded to more modern blockbusters. The emergence of Sandman is a fantastic, wordless short film in it's own right. Stunning.
It's definitly underrated
I don’t understand how people can say this is bad, and then say homecoming and far from home are good. This still has so much more substance and meaning than those lunchbox mcu movies 🤦🏻♂️
Uh…not even close! 3rd best if you ask me, I don’t think anything has beaten the OG trilogy yet
Facts it’s better than all the MCU Spider-Man movies
@@dloftan5539 even No Way Home? That's gonna be a hard disagree for me. 1 & 2? Definitely. But 3 better than NWH?!?
This movie has grown on me, and I appreciate what it did. Also it's a satisfying ending to the trilogy. Venom is my favorite villain of all time and like everyone else was disappointed. But after seeing the crap that is Hardy's film it made appreciate this version. Also the venom story is very accurate to the source material.
I love Spider-Man 3, it's my second favorite Spidey film. It's not perfect but it is a fun ride for me personally. No movie is flawless even Spider-Man 2 has flaws.
No, it’s not the worst, rewatch it then your will realise how great of a movie it is.
It’s pretty good
Good analysis. I actually gave this one another try just last week. Too many half cooked ingredients made a weak and confusing soup.
I liked SM 3. It wasn’t great but it’s far from a bad movie. And not only was it the highest grossing Spider man movie at the time, it was the highest grossing superhero movie until The Dark Knight became the first billion dollar superhero movie. It stands in between both Amazing Spider Man movies In rotten tomatoes score and it’s better than both of them, no matter how much newfound love Andrew Garfield (much deserved) is getting now. So I think it’s accurately rated, it never got the hate ASM 2 got 😜
Spider-Man 3 will NEVER be the worst Spider-Man movie. That dishonor would go to The Amazing Spider-Man 2. Such potential completely wasted on "will-they, won't-they?" on-again, off-again romance, subplots about OsCorp & Richard Parker that go nowhere & lackluster fight scenes.
This movie is goofier & sloppier than the previous 2, but it's still got its moments. And time as well as hilarious references to the dancing have softened the cringe over the years. It's a somewhat better version of Superman III. It should have retained some of the stuff cut from the theatrical version.
I got to see this at a midnight premiere in IMAX. It was the first IMAX movie I saw, and it was still kinda new at the time.
The 1st and 3rd are my favorite
Ya know, now that I think of it, you should talk about TASM 2 and the production behind it between Sony and Avi Arad and Marc Webb.
Spidey 3 > mcu Spiderman
Sam Raimi is one of the finest Filmmakers and Made characters he created icons, and he did to Spiderman what Tim Burton did to Batman.
To me it was a good film. I don't think it was the best of the bunch, and like was noted it suffered from way overhype at the time and coming out after amongst the best superhero films (Spider-Man 2) so it was in a sense set up to not be praised. To me SM 1 was very good, SM 2 was truly fantastic, and SM 3 was good. Overall, a great series in my book.
IMO better than any BS marvel has been putting out recently, and it’s not even close.
FOR SURE!
The film was just two films; it should have closed off harry's arc whilst having sandman be the main "villain"; whilst also hinting at how the costume is slowly changing peter and the emergence of his rivalry w/ brock; however they just jammed it into 1 film and it shows.
I think Betty Brandt enjoyed hitting the blood pressure button.
I wish they would have let Sam Raimi do what he wanted. He already proved himself with the first 2. Execs always ruin things when they butt in.
Fair review.
But I will take Spidey3 over the current modern comicbook movies anytime.
Yes I rewatched it last year when it was on Netflix and it was unsatisfying. Eddie’s motivations were dumb and Harry getting amnesia shouldn’t have been included. I think the highlight of the film is Sandman’s origin story and Peter forgiving him for killing his uncle (even though the other crook was the presented as the killer). Simply Venom should not have been in this movie, especially the way it was portrayed.
People need to remember that this film is for kids so, over simplifying things is kinda necessary sometimes. But that symbiote animation is superb
The only problem really is that this has 2 or 3 movies shoved into the runtime of 1
It was unremarkable at the time but it’s Citizen Kane compared to superhero movies of the last decade. Has held up really well. Just the lame piano scene should have been edited out.
AVI ARAD is now gonna ruin BORDERLANDS and KRAVEN THE HUNTER
The same way he ruined this movie and TASM2
It's funny. Because as flawed as the whole stuffing Venom into this film & basically the plot points not being as satisfying as it could've been, the actual ending of the film isn't actually bad per say. Sure, there was no iconic web swing like the previous films, but the implication being that Peter and Mary Jane were willing enough to work through their issues together & the whole simplicity placed into it, was moving. I wouldn't mind if this was the very last scene of the Raimi series.
Spider-Man 3 is a movie that is split in half for me. You can tell the story Sam Rami wanted to tell and the movie Sony wanted to make. What I do love about this movie is a the bully maguire meme
There is definitely a masterpiece in there
I love all the sandman bits. Lets just keep it at that.
3 was a great film. Ive always been happy to just accept what we get, and his ego makes perfect sense for a nerd thinking hes suddenly cool. Even venom was not bad, but given what avi did to the film, its a masterpiece comoared to what avi wanted to make it
It's actually not a bad film. It just has too much going for it. Probably too many villains. But Sam Raimi never wanted Venom in the film, but AVI ARAD were like, no we need him in the film.
I didn’t hate the movie; it’s my #1 movie of 2007
The most highly marketed in the franchise next to Amazing Spider-Man 2
I understand the criticisms from the emo stuff to venom’s limited screen time
Plus Sam Raimi fought with Sony over creative differences
Technically this is still considered good by Rotten Tomatoes and it broke box office records
Entertaining and I was never bored although I would’ve loved to see peters internal struggle with the symbiote
Maybe the movie could’ve been longer to expand these other storylines
We should be thankful though; thanks to No Way Home the film has gotten better appreciation and Raimi has admitted what didn’t work before
I do agree with you for the most part. I believe that what harmed this film the most was indeed setting up too much and then not much of a good payoff. That being said, there are far worse movies out there than Spider-Man 3 and I don't quite get why so much hate; it's still better than ASM 2.
I didn’t mind the movie, I did not expect the series to be cancelled. Only problem was 3 villains. Venom could’ve been introduced in 4, the first 3 could’ve been a hobgoblin saga, with maybe the sandman being the anti hero. But Venom in my opinion, is Spider-Man’s best villain by far so I get why they rushed into it which creates a big problem in writing. Too much going on. They did the same mistake in amazing Spider-Man 2, it was all over the place with villains. I still enjoyed that one as well. Garfield is my fav spidey, but too confident as Peter Parker. But He does emotions so well. N the latest Spider-Man had me witness n feel what a true super hero has to do, to become great. First 2 Holland films were half garbage not bc of Holland. They’re too childish for me, Disney all up in it. Bleh. Lol.
One aspect of this film that I think you missed is Sam Raimi's ability to juggle all the plot-lines and villains here as well as he did. Although some critics thought it was overstuffed (but for different reasons than you did), none to my knowledge has ever given Raimi the credit he deserves for managing to balance out EVERYthing that was going on in this movie so that it was a coherent whole. So, yes, I'll go with Spidey 2 as my favorite as well, but for showing sheer directorial ability and given what Raimi had to work with, I think that in that context this is actually the best of the three.
James Franco is professor black from hogwarts legacy
I always assumed the part where Harry's memory returns was because he's got a super soldier level regeneration ability.
I just shook my head When MJ gave Peter crap for being flirtatious, flaunting & arrogant around Gwen in face. I’m like B*tch didn’t you flaunt & taunt YOUR marriage in front of Peter’s face in Spider-Man 2?
SPIDERMAN 3
VENOM
was better than the
TOM HARDY version
The could've saved Venom for Spider-Man 4 but they had to push him in there Studio Interference is so unnecessary!
Better than current marvel phase
It's not that bad. Venom is obviously rushed. Had they planned it for 2 movies, it would've been better. Black suit spidey in 3, Venom reveal at end, Venom v spidey in 4 plus vulture.
It has some cringy moments but it's a serviceable movie
Or no Venom at all. Suits gonna suits tho
Venom never should have been in that film, neither The Sandman, who was made into a sympathetic character. They should have gone with the Lizard since Curt Conners was already in the first two movies, even The Man-Wolf since his human alter-ego was in the second film.
Harry should've been the main villain, and the only villain. The first 2 films set it up. MJ should've been jealous of Peter getting too close with his landlords daughter. The first 2 films set it up.
I'm been saying for years Topher Grace would've been the perfect Peter Parker.
I feel like if they had did the black suit just for spider man 3 and bring venom in for #4 it would have been a lot better
When I first saw it in theaters back in summer 2007 I was so disappointed!! Over the years it’s grown on me knowing the history of the production Sam Raimi did his best and it’s still quite entertaining. Not as good or focused as 1 and 2 but still good not great but not horrible . Definitely would recommend the editors cut it improves it a bit and Christopher young’s score is inserted back to the film which is 10x better than just reusing music from 1 and 2 .
It's certainly the weakest of the three, but that to me doesn't mean it's bad either, I do enjoy it when I watch it, but I don't watch it often. That still puts it miles above either of the "Amazing Spider-Man" movies though.
The casting of Topher grace really aggravated me because Eddie Brock in my head was the size of Brock Lesnar ....and I couldn't help but think of Eric foreman the entire time....I hated it. That and the goofy emo Peter Parker scenes....that was ridiculous. But other than that ...I think I'm one of the few that actually enjoyed part 3. But there was certainly a couple of changes I would have made.
I hope we see Tobey again.