Questioned: Which WWII Warbird Is Best At Destroying Trains? | DCS
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- Опубліковано 10 чер 2024
- Today we run a quantified scenario to test which World War II aircraft is best at deleting trains.
PATREON: / grimreapers
0:00 Overview
2:17 P-15D Mustang
11:20 Spitfire
18:50 P-47D Thunderbolt
25:11 BF-109K-4
31:00 FW-190A-8
37:08 Mosquito
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#DCSQuestioned #GR #DCSWorld #WWII #WorldWar2 #GRDCSTesting #DCSTesting #DCS #Aviation #AviationGaming #FlightSimulators #Military - Ігри
My Great Uncle flew the P-47 with the 12th Air Force. He once told a good story about strafing a train. The Germans would hide 2cm flak guns in a couple of dummy boxcars along the train. When a pilot would line up and commit to his run, they’d pull a lever and drop the sides off the boxcar, train the guns out and open up. He found this out the hard way. Literally pieces of the engine hanging out of the cowling and it was still running. Made it almost all the way back to base when it finally ran out of oil and seized. Had to belly land in a field about 5 miles out. He got another plane and was back in action by the end of the week. The Jug was tougher than a 2-dollar steak.
If I had to fly in WWII, I'd pick a late model P-47.
Oh man that’s an awesome analogy at the end. I’m stealing it.
Steaks at IHOP are of this toughness category
It's was hard to kill those big radials.
I know somebody who was a child, riding in one of those trains used for "Kinderlandverschickung". Civilians (mainly children) were moved out of heavily bombed cities. His train was attacked, one fighter fired some warning shots, everybody got out of the train, and then the fighters shot up the steam locomotive and the train.
Many civilians were less lucky and met fighter pilots who just opened fire on sight.
One interesting fact is that in most gun camera footage of pilots strafing trains is they always come side on to the train rather then the front or behind. You’d think it’s more optimal to attack from the front or behind so you can strafe down the length of the train.
However with my own experience attacking trains in single player / campaign missions in dcs (in the mustang anyway) is actually to do exactly what the pilots from ww2 did.
Due to the position of the .50s on the wing you bullets will hit more on either side of the locomotive due to gun convergence And there will be a small window where the guns are hitting the locomotive itself. Coming in at a low side angle brings all guns to bare and you have the full side on profile of the train to hit and if in a slow turn you can hit multiple train cars in the same way.
The gun camera footage I've seen looks the same. It also seems pilots would fire a brief burst and use the tracer rounds to better aim for a full strafing run.
Also the guncam footage looks like they are shooting from much farther away. I don't know why everyone playing DCS waits to get so close to the target to start shooting.
@@rubiconnn probably because of the gun convergence problem and I guess wanting to save ammo. have to wait until you get close if coming at the train head on as bullets will just go either side of the train.
@@rubiconnn I think it has to do with everybody zooming in too much in DCS. When you zoom in too much it throws off your depth perception and speed perception, so you don't feel like you are as close as you are and going as fast as you are, but then you realize too late. Same thing happens in War Thunder with the right click zoom. Unfortunately, unless you can afford a 4k monitor and the hardware to run DCS at good framerates in 4k, then the resolution is really just not quite enough to simulate reality.
gonna be mission specific, if you're just stopping the thing, you got one target. if you're aiming to destroy the supplies and expect quasi soft, side is as good as anything. enemy spotting and considerations for speed necessary to consider.
This reminds me of the stories my German nan told me. She said the fighters would come so low to hit the trains you could see the pilots moustaches.
Could we get another Thunderdome competition? Always super entertaining to watch the Reapers in a close proximity dogfight.
Nice, cap. I recall that fighter pilots were later encouraged to hunt locomotives and other targets of convenience on the way back from escort missions.
German aircraft supremacist here, before watching the video I would say probably the P47 Thunderbolt. It is big and heavy and has a few stones and rockets.
"If they stop moving, that's how you tell their dead"
Prediction: P-47D Thunderbolt. But the Mosquito was a beast. Look forward to this one.
The British 4 x 20mm Hispano were more powerful than the 8 x 0.5 BMG. A tempest was much faster down low.
I would love to see a p-38 due to its armament and its position.
@@zyzzyx3160 I really wish we had the Lightning.
I've not flown the Bf109 much, but I have found that setting the elevator trim a bit nose-up really helps with pullling out of strafing runs. You have to push the stick forward to keep the nose down & aim, but pulling up is less buttock-clenching.
Going out on a limb, Lightning was a ground attack monster I'd have chosen that.
Couple things I noticed was you were waiting to fire until you were already on top of them several times you could have gotten multiple trains on 1 pass if you fired a bit sooner, as well as when going in for a gun run, pull back on the throttle. Goin to quick to have enough time to line them up and fire. Keep up the awesome work and keep uploading these interesting scenarios.
Little frustrating, Cap fires way too late but one of the better and the others just spray. Skill level is disconcerting but improving as they went🤣
Bristol Beaufighter - it was like a chonky, thick Mosquito
The Beaufighter was to vulnerable to use over land in daylight.
If "get another one" was a thing back in my active duty days, I probably would have advanced much further.... But I probably would have gotten out in debt to the government.
"Next episode : The Trains Fire Back!"
Great job, but
first „The more u fly the better u become” (P-51 underrated),
second if your plane can´t destroy a loco in one attack you could change the tactic.
Divide your team in 2 and fly circles right and left of the track, start on one side of the track and attack, after approximately 25 locos you turn around (in the circle) and target the same aims again. Important is only not to cross the track. You should combine the snake way with up and down.
At the end, I like your channel very much
Greetings
everyone knows, or should know, that the best vessel for killing trains is the submarine USS Barb.
I love train based science!
Hey guy's!!! Can you test this scenario with today's aircraft like the A-10, F-15, 22, 35, J-10, Frogfoot...?!
Yes please!
i really like when they all say "hello boys." it makes me smile.
I always enjoy this kind of "research", but maybe a follow-up with some other planes too? You could chose for example some different jets of different generations (NO clusterbombes!!!).
I was missing several WWII-fighters, like the P38, the Typhoon, maybe for fun a Zero or a Russian competitor... Maybe another reason to redo this fun one? Or a series of these?
Fun video, a less serious scenario where everyone can just have a bit of fun and banter.
Great video, Cap! Would be great to see what the ground attack aircraft (Pucara etc) would be like in comparison
I am a ww2 warbird fan boy. Absolutely love all the history behind all of them. Thank you for this video. And bless you uncle Cragon. Your & your ww2 purple heart will never be forgotten.
Shame the steam locomotives in DCS don't explode like they do in real life. They would explode with steam vertically sometimes taking out the attacking aircraft like pressure cookers.
I'm pretty sure these trains are WAY too tough as well. Real steam engines wouldn't take anything to absolutely destroy them.
Yeah the core game trains are OP for sure. They take no splash damage from the rockets and bombs had to hit directly on target.
This episode Smells Like Kenosha a ton!
Very much like ducks at the carnival. Down to target choice and AP rounds, in that order, the Mosquito cheats by being very stable for time to choose, and having so many rounds. Excellent sport.
Without watching, the P47. I’ve a train on my own private WW2 target range and the Jug consistently does the most damage per load out, and is the easiest to put weapons on target
Hi I have a challenge, I don't have DCS personally so not sure if this is possible.. I was thinking any planes set up a massive Sam field something like a mile square set back off the end of a run way so you have something to gauge your shots and distance with and do inverted kind of spit S unguided bomb lobs.
Wasn't the Typhoon made for this job?
We need more IL2. DCS feels like eveything has a hit box, not weak points.
You should do this with the A-10, Su-25, Pucara, and Tucano. (I know which one would win) but it would make a cool video. 😂
I'd like to see a video of the Grim Reapers using WW2 planes taking out ships with torpedoes, including the Wellington bomber and swordfish.
Wish they had the P38 in DCS. That, a Typhoon, or a Stukka would likely be tops.
Mosquito Tsetse would also be interesting
Bob Dornan would be crying at your last segment.
Tears of joy, rage, or pain... but how nutty that man was, he'd be crying for some reason.
The enola gay hands down is the best could take the train out from 20 miles away
Those dastardly trains are making evasive manoeuvres
In DCS it's simple : Missiles > Cannons > MG. Pity you didn't have time to rerun the P-51D, because you had so many self-inflicted issues on that round while learning the ground game.
To me he will always be Simba Wimba.
Helo version of this mission would be cool.
Same scenario, A-10 vs Su25 vs F/A18 ect.
You should watch some footage of pilots actually doing this in WW2 and revisit...add a second or two to those strafing runs and you are there.
P-47 Thunderbolt.
“What the… Did someone shoot a train at you?!” Dumb movie, but great line!
FWIW, American pilots attract trains from the side, not the front
I don't know if the tempest is included in DCS but given his reputation as a ground attack aircraft it would have been interesting to see it too
Great video nonetheless
10:05 "Put it in H!"
She'll go 300 hectares on a single tank of kerosene.
Would like to see you and the rest of the grimm reapers try using the BF-110 and the B-26
Fun content as always, but sometimes it seems to me like Cap is purposefully trying to avoid learning how to be accurate in this game. Come on Cap, those train cars are huge, you should be putting every bullet and every other rocket in them. You really need to pick a plane that doesn't have any PGMs or CCIP and concentrate on learning how to do ground attack without a piper to tell you exactly where your bullets are going. You are cutting off and devaluing many effective ground attack aircraft by only being proficient in the ones that do all the work for you. Once you get used to it, manual aiming is fun. There is a great sense of satisfaction from nailing Tanks with HVARS from a P-47, or shooting up trucks with the 7.62s on the L-39 by walking in your tracers. Unassisted bombing is going to take awhile for you to learn because it requires feel, so concentrate on unassisted rockets and guns. You had a mission awhile back where you used an A-4, took your time, utilized LABS and nailed a tank with a 500 pounder on your first shot. You then dropped the other 8 bombs you were carrying without using LABS or aiming, and they missed everything. Accuracy is king in this game when it comes to armored or tough targets. Splash won't do anything.
If I had to pick a warbird for this it'd either be an F4U-7 fully laden with type-23 SNEB rocket pods or a B-25 H with the 75mm nose mounted howitzer. Neither of these are probably in DCS though.
Great flying.. Spit appeared to be a very stable gun platform but the Wooden Wonder was always gonna be the pick of the bunch.. Devastating machine in this environment.. Matrix was in his element... Thanks all all GR'S... 👍👏👏
was at an airshow yesterday with a flying FW190 A8.. man compared to the spits and 2 2 stangs its a big airplane
The B-25 with the 75mm nose gun... j/s
Would love to see the Hawker Tempest have a go at this
The mossie. 4x20mm + 4x 7.7mm
Great watch muckers 👍🏻👍🏻
DCS needs Tempest V and FW190 F8 modules urgently!
them rubber bands be hella tuff yo
Wish they had the F4U Corsair in DCS. It's definitely one of my favorite warbirds.
It's coming sometime between now and the end of the universe
P-47…there’s a reason A-10s were named Thunderbolt II.
15:56 in defense of whoever went down first, they didn't crash. it looks like the back end of their spitfire broke off. maybe pulled up too fast and over-stressed the frame?
Matrix just cruising about in the Mossie enjoying the shit out of it!!
I prefer the P47. Rockets and guns. The Mossie has a bit more firepower, but is a huge target, has liquid cooled engines and is slow to turn around for another pass.
Shame you didnt try the british Typhoon. Specialised as a tank buster. Dont know if its in the game tho :(
Yeah sad times. Was an excellent ground attacker.
It's not.
I just kept thinking you were slaughtering Thomas and Friends
F190 take off….comedy gold!
P-38 Lightning would be a great warbird in this game.
Typhoon with 20mm cannons.
*_"Could you at least point your nose away from me when you're testing the guns?"_*
*"NO GUTS, NO GLORY."* 😉
As heavy as the train engines were, there's no way .50bmg wouldn't tear through them, especially if they loaded in some api and ap in the belts. The footage of train strafing seams to back this up, they blow up pretty quick.
Damage modeling on ground/ship units isn't great in DCS. Even the aircraft has pretty crap Damage modeling.
I'd like to see either a Stuka or a P38 in this scenario.
Those poor BR86😭
The rail fans will have mixed feelings about this.
Cap, should do this mission again with really good gun ships. Ac130(with more crew members) maybe some attack helos, and a10 vs...Russian a10? Frogfoot? I forget. But that's a great video!
Russian a-10 is frogfoot, yes, which is basically a Northrop YA-9
@BoraHorzaGobuchul I've seen so many videos of the guys n gals flying it you'd think I'd remember it's designation lol.
@@robbergerson4915 Brains are weird, I once forgot for about an hour the word for "cherry" in my native language. While easily recalling it in English at the same time. And that at the age of about 7, so not age-related.
@BoraHorzaGobuchul understood! Learning second and more languages is a challenge. I whish I had started that young! I forget words while I'm speaking them at this point hahahahahha
Il-2, P-39/63, P-38, Tempest/Typhoon?
I wonder how a later war Stuka would have faired?
You wait ages for a train, then 1,000,000 come at once
Be really interesting if you could do this again but in IL-2? I suspect the Sturmovik and Ju-57G would be excellent?
Hi Cap I was wondering, a fair bit ago you did a test of NATO air defense systems throughout the years against planes, would you possibly be able to do one against cruise missiles any ones you decide
Sure
3:40 I think it is very good to market the test server, but how about using the test server? ;)
Not really suitable for vid making.
What is a p15 mustang? Also, is there anyone better than caps to watch? It's a bit sad :(
The story of a German plane shooting a train when the train exploded and a peice flew and severed the pilots head and both train driver and fireman both survived
@grimreapers >>> Could you do this in the future with helicopters?
i noticed with mosquito shot on the runway the nearest plane rudder was vibrating left and right. was this a setup issue with rudder pedals or just wind simulation?
A-10's!😛
are we getting a part 4 for the overlord campaign and if so when
My late mum worked in a factory in Sydney in WW2 pot riveting the bellies to mosquito bombers, in her last few year she would say I wonder how many people I helped kill, it really worried her
Big guns on a stable firing platform wins... who would have thought.
Should have brought the P38
Single train with AAA in a realistic setting i.e not reciprocating , how long does it take for a pair to stop the train would be a better test .
"Internet Expert" here....I wonder how it would turn out with significantly more German AAA. I will admit to my P-47 bias here...but the P-47 wasn't great at ground attack b/c of its 8 .50cals.....it was great because it had 8 .50cals, with a high rate of fire, a metric S*** ton of ammo and the ability to soak up hits. Although its hard to argue with the power of 4 (four) 20mm rounds impacting simultaneously from the Mossy being far more destructive, i think the damage from the P-47 is close at the proper range.
I don't know how the game processes penetration on train engines or the energy of impact but im betting that while a single .50 caliber armor piercing incendiary round traveling at over 900 meters/sec (3,000 ft/sec) is going to have no problem slicing through those boilers and make quite an impact doing it, the energy released when 8 (eight!!) .50 cal API rounds hit the same area of the target virtually simultaneously- when target is at proper convergence)- has to be tremendous (more than 2 20mm rounds?). Several P-47 pilots described hitting trains at the proper convergence range and actually knocking rail cars over on their side when hitting them with a one second burst (so about 60-80 rounds).
So, i would think , the P-47 would perform this task much better than a Spitfire (and a P-51) both in damage dealt and its ability to soak up enough damage to continue re-attacking BUT, i suspect that you would do more damage- and do it much easier and more extensively) with a Mossie as you have 4 20mm rounds hitting the same area regardless of range
i wanted to add that I'm no expert; but i have seen what happens when a .50cal AP round strikes the front of a 2006 ford crown Victoria. Much more impressive then a .50cal "ball" round, the AP round hit the side above and a bit behind the front left wheel. The hood flew open and debris shot out everywhere as the car rocked back and forth (and then started smoking). A closer inspection revealed that the round hit the side of the V-8 engine block passed through it while blowing apart two of the cylinders (throwing debris everywhere which was what blew the hood open), was redirected downward and slightly forward and passed into the steel wheel/brake disc assembly of the front right wheel coming to rest inside the tire (which was the thing we saw smoking.) I cant imagine what it would have looked like if 8 .50Ap rounds struck the front/side of that car at the same time...let alone 60-80 (eighty!!!) AP rounds hitting the front of the car in 1 second ( approx 500-600 rds/min is aboout 8-10 rounds/sec each gun right?)
No Tempest?
IDK if the P-38 is modelled in DCS, but it would have been an excellent candidate for this test, similar to the Mossy. It had a 20mm cannon. In fact, you could argue it was the best allied fighter in the war.
Im suprised you havent used a tempest or typhoon as they were used for this? Unless there arent in the game?
Would like to see it done with P38
What're the chances of a P-61 making it on DCS
You guys familiar with the expression "target fixation"?
*Cap: **_"Ah, sh*t. Ow."_* 🤭
When yall were talking about speed holes and weight reduction for the damage on your plane. Make me laugh because Derek from Vice Grip Garage says the same thing.
Don't have p38 ? Cannon and 4 .50
Hey Cap, how about a reenactment of The Shepherd?
Any idea how I watch this? I don't really understand modern streaming channels?
@@grimreaperswell damn, I didn't even realize they'd recently made a movie of it, I just remember reading the book by Frederick Forsyth when I was a kid.
Synopsis here...
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shepherd
There's a cheesy home grown animated version here.
I dunno, just seems like something a bit different you could have some role playing fun with.
ua-cam.com/video/XV-ILCXGyxQ/v-deo.htmlsi=4kqFwZaqJhTKMmwU
I wonder how many of those old gentlemen trainspotters got started by being RAF pilots assigned to spot and massacre German planes... Did they spend the rest of their lives quietly hunting them and remembering the good old days? Makes those harmless-seeming kooks quite sinister if that's the case.