CNC mill built from a 3D Printer!
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- Опубліковано 10 січ 2017
- Want a CNC mill, but only have a 3D printer? Well, if it's sufficiently overbuilt you can convert it for less than $100!
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I think it would be nice if you could make a sort of "build-along" series, by building a cnc by reusing used parts or from accessible new 3D printer parts. Maybe build the cnc frame and such with 3D printed parts. Keep up the good work
I have a dream, the day is coming. 5 axis CNC and 3D printer all in one!
you can get one they make them in japan
zmorph is already available.
I was thinking more on the lines of a DIY kit. Were heading in the right direction... 5 axis CNC/Delta ;)
CNC machines have no place in my dream. Soon 3D printers will be so advanced that most of the things we use everyday will be printed.
Jason Burt I dunno. There are a few kits, but the usable dimensions are so different between the two. Like for 3D printing, you usually care way more about build height, and a heated bed. For milling you can usually get away with 4 to 6 inches tall, but you want a bed that's at least 3' square, but it's way more useful if it's a 3'x6' table (for working with plywood and MDF sheets, etc.) -- the desktop / 3D printer mill makes sense for small things, like brackets, parts, or PCBs. Though, I like the idea of two pass printing. Where you print the part, and then take a second pass, milling the part, so that it's very smooth. But I don't see it replacing full on milling setups any time soon.
I'm so glad you made this video! I'm converting one of my printers to a CNC Router as we speak! This was super helpful.
To fix your problem of little particles going everywhere and to save having to hold the vacuum beside the CNC machine why not print a duct? A bit like the fan duct for part cooling on 3D printers except with a vacuum attached?
Tom, your work is as always, excellent. Thanks for the adventure!
More on this please, Tom! :D I've had a shapeoko 2 sitting around collecting dust & rust. your video and Estlcam are making me hopeful again. thanks a lot!
I did my project the other way round. I designed and built my own CNC machine first. I soon got tired of the noise and mess in my workshop, so, i modified the machine to be a 3D printer. Now I have a powerful and well built 3D printer and its cost me less than £250. Thanks for all your hints and tips.
You should try the MPCNC, I have one, and it constantly impresses me.
MPCNC for life :D
Thanks a ton for this information! Would love to hear about any future developments you do with respect to building a machine like this.
Nice video. Its cool to see others using a 3d printers for task they weren't designed for. I attempted to make a "cricut/cameo" cutter with my wanhao di3. For making circuits from copper sheets.
This is easily one of the best 3D printing channels on YT. Thank's, Tom!
I'll steer clear of that one then. :D
As a machinist I find this interesting showing how much work that making a 3D printer > CNC mill. Obviously what your after and what I would be after are different I found it interesting! Keep up the good work!
"You're" probably right.
Yay, your channel now does my 2nd favourite hobby! Brilliant!
I've never tried Marlin for CNC, knew it has CNC capabilities but always stayed with trusty GRBL on Uno with ElCheapo CNC Shield.
And about the chips etc, I use pretty much everywhere so called door draft brush - to cover rails and for the spindle shoe. Works a treat.
Good luck with CNC'ing!
This is absolutely phenomenal, honestly. It's definitely one of my favorite videos out of your channel, as CNCs are like 3D printers in reverse. Would you be willing to publish the files you used for the actual replacement parts? I can probably get a Mendelmax, and I'd like to take a crack at this. Idle thoughts below;
3D printing a shroud for the shopvac that attaches to the XZ gantry would probably be pretty useful.
Also you could probably hook up a 220-48V stepdown and control the motor with an SSR, using one of the heater outputs.
As always, you are an excellent source of technical knowledge 👏
I ran an engraving machine. I liked the hollow spindle , where the tools loaded from the top.
Awesome project Tom, this is gonna be a very interesting series.
Hey Tom, do you think you'll ever do a Mostly Printed CNC build as a from scratch build?
Also how do you think open CNC builds are gonna grow in the future, as much as 3d printing?
Don't waste your time... 3d printed parts are too weak to work on a cnc mill
Any idea how to get around the fact that the stock top becomes Z0 when you place your bit on it and the printer won't move into -Z space?
Interesting. I'm in the process of doing this albeit in reverse. I bought an OpenBuilds "C-Beam" machine and am slowly collecting the things I need to convert it to a 3D printer.
I don't foresee any problems with rigidity. lol. I think it will be easier and quicker to swap between the two configurations using the "C-Beam" as a base.
I did put the effort into learning the basics of Fusion360, it is worth the time.
Great minds think a like. I did the same thing as you're doing. The C-Beam machine is a good start. Though the print height is low due to where the X/Z axis sits in relation to the print bed. Instead of the 4 250mm uprights holding it, I'm gonna swap them for 500mm ones. Also I will make a plate that will allow the Z C-Beam to move fully instead of just the gantry plate moving.
Glad I'm not alone. True, the Z axis is limited in the standard "C-Beam" configuration but rather than increase it straight away I aim to get it working properly as a 3D printer first. Although, having seen Thomas' review of the "TEVO Black Widow" it is so similar to the "C-Beam" I'm tempted to buy one, stiffen it up with OpenBuilds' plates and have both a CNC mill and a 3D printer. Seems almost everyone is panning the TEVO in their reviews, I figure the price will have to drop and it would make a "reasonable" starting point.
Converting a CNC machine to a 3D printer is a hot topic for a while. Please take a look at this blog page (cnc2printer3d.wordpress.com/) Community of people working on the subject and there are lots of useful data
The Tevo literally uses C-Beam from reviews I've seen, but said reviews don't recommend it because it's a fire hazard and has poor build quality outside of the OpenBuilds sourced parts.
I've never had OpenRail or whatever OB calls it, how straight and true is it? I've seen pictures in the past of just standard extrusion, probably from chinese companies, that were warped and bent.
Great video Tom, as always.
I'd love some more details on converting marlin to deal with running milling operations if it would be possible to do a video/link to where I could read more? (I've searched, but haven't seen anything specific).
I would love to make a swapable effector for my Kossel to hold a dremel extension. Just for machining foam and PCBs.
Are you sure it was the bearings? I have something similar and I went through several sets of motor brushes but the bearings (2x 608) were fine.
Have you stumbled upon the 'mostly printed cnc' thing? Its a pretty awesome project to build, if you want to run out of free space forever :)
I have literally spent the last 2 weeks watching your videos....downloading most of them...Today...you literally made my day...Estlcam....a lifesaver for my DIY CNC project. The more you upload, the more we get the learn....especially those small hints you give out.
From your videos i learned how to setup an arduino...which arduino to buy..how to configure Marlin...the list goes on.....Thank you
One request...if you can literally show how to DIY build a filament extruder that would be awesome..i mean literally from scratch......here in Africa cost of shipping alone would exceed the price of the extruder or parts....Thanks again
Hi Tom can I convert my Tevo Tarantula in the same way, I have already converted it to laser engraving, with your help, many thanks
Thank you. You convinced me to buy a CNC! :D
Can you do a video on turning the Prusa i3 MK2 into one of these? or a laser cutter?! Also, a video on the "mostly printed CNC" would be a nice video
That is awesome! I'd been wondering if something like this would actually be possible. Nice job!
Nice job, and thanks for the links, also!
Genau sowas habe ich gesucht :) Eine serie dazu wäre super!
wow great job! you did it!
this is something I've been looking to do as well except instead of rotory tool motor, I was going with a router motor. have you considered using one of those?
Now this is something I've been dying to see done. I build guitars and this would help immensely!
How are the bearings in that spindle? Have they lasted?
Hey nice video. Just wondering what need to be changed in marlin firmware when using ESTL cam to do this conversion?
Very well done!!!
The frame of a 3D printer was never designed to take the loading that would be present on a mill but you got it to work ~ congratulations!!!
Another big issue is that the mass of the spindle motor is very high but I have seen someone (on his own design PCB mill) use the motor out of a RC car, then he used the motor out of a quad-copter, both of which he was able to do speed control using g-code.
The only issue was that the bearings of these motors were not designed to handle the side loading that they were now being given.
Last time I saw him he was building his own spindle which would absorb the loading and coupling it to the motor which would only have to provide the rotation.
But he was driving using toothed belts and these had a very short life span.
I have a Tevo Black Widow that I am very happy with. I'd like to retrofit it so I can add a CNC head to it. One thing I am curious about is that it is belt driven for the X and Y.. Not thread. When CNCing how much pressure would be put on the bit during normal operation and would the belt be sufficient to hold the bit in position.
Many thanks
So if i were to size this up, add some linear rails, nema 23s, ball screws,etc... i could still use marlin as a firmware for a cnc? Would i be limited in any way if i used marlin?
That is awesome. With my current education in Precision Machining and CNC Automation, which is still limited, the similarities between the overall configurations of industrial (cartesian) CNC milling machines and the open-source marlin, reprapfirmware, and similar is exciting. I imagine open-source CNC machines are going to get a LOT better in the next year or two with the increase of adoption I am seeing. The config files are extremely similar. Not only is milling CAM software getting a lot better each year, with the slicer software improving....and materials getting interesting and relatively more available...this should be a fun year, to say the least. I am working on a mendel max of my own, scaled up slightly with 45x45 aluminum extrusion because...it needs it! :)
Hey Tom, looks like a fun little hack. I think I'd only do the same as a way of bootstrapping a new CNC.
What about just going the whole hog and building a MPCNC or (simpler and better, IMO) a ROOT 2?
You could re-use some parts and explore new things such as NEMA 23 steppers or different stepper drivers... Solid content right?
I vote MPCNC, but....I am biased.
Great design, I'm loving mine so far. I built the newer one with the 25.4mm stainless tubes. Bravo!
quite impressive thomas, great work. didn't think that would be rigid or heavy enough to do aluminium
@Thomas
Do you have a solution for the speed control? (Be careful with just adjusting the voltage by the trim pot, the electronics inside or not satisfied with this. The function from this trim pot is to adjust the voltage back to 48V when the load is high.)
Maybe you can also look into mostly printed CNC, this one I'm currently making :D
I looking forward to you next video's about CNC.
you could try and 3d print a cover for the circuit and mount a vacum close to the head, but this video should really help with the conversion I want to do. Thank you
That is great Tom! What type of firmware are you using for your CNC, is it marlin with estlcam as the "slicer"?
I just wonder what frimware you use for cnc mill , Im kind of intersting to do the samething to one of my 3D printer, that would be great if you do a video on firmeware and loading file machine and tunnig
What do you do after you put the motor and drimmel on to make it cut? Do you have to use a program? I want to do this on my 3d printer but I'm not sure how. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Nice conversion, Thomas! -- I'm really interested in something like this, mostly for PCB circuit board milling. -- Do you think that a dremel-like tool would be alright for that purpose, or was the experience so bad that you would just always go with a spindle from now on?
If the spindle gives out, check out Kress router. They do 3 models, designed with small CNC in mind. Middle one was around 200$ last time I checked and user feedback I saw was good.
I'm looking to do the exact opposite. I'm going to try to add a 3D print head to my Bridgeport CNC mill. I've always wanted to try 3D printing, but not sure if I have any real uses for it.
My friend has a kit-built CNC and uses Mach 3 and has had enormous luck with vCarve Pro Worth a look!
is it possible to put the whole moving table in a bag of robust transparent plastic to prevent the particles flying around? Assuming you provide enough cooling.
Did you have trouble with the Z-lead-screws? They are fixed with a elastic shaft coupling, so they problably can move up and down, right?
What kind of software would you need ito run a CNC that was a 3-D printer because 3-D printers print from bottom to top but CNC's print from top to bottom
Pretty sure your motor should be connected to your motherboard through a controller, because specific RPMs can be crucial with some materials/bits.
Well done. Very nice machine.
i clicked on this because i saw the overwatch emblem on the thumbnail. XD oh well, Im still fascinated by 3d printing! really cool!
amazing! i have had some thoughts about building one of those myself throughout the years. maybe a core-xy would be more suitable for the project though.
Hi, Im thinking ok a core XY for my grabbing / printer CNC. Do you think is a good idea?
@@alexandropalacios7782 Depends on. There are limitations with a core xy, what do you want to do with it?
@@MoreCharactersThanNeeded Well, It wiil habe a 40 x 60 cm bed, and apart from 3D printing, I want to use it for grabbing pictures in MDF and It would be great if I can use a dremel for aluminium
hi how are you ?
did you change the main board of the 3d printer or you did use ESTLcam on the same board?
I wonder if you can add the lazer to mark metal instead and engrave logos to metal plastic etc using lazer.
nice! Do you think that a simple motherboard, as a arduino uno could make this job done?
do you know a software to generate gcode for milling with our 3d printer? is it possible with cura?
thomas how did use the marlin estlcam makes the marlin file how do run the file ?
Can you do a step by step use of estlcam from desighmn to gcode running.
will a creality ender 3 board be use for cnc with the same firmware for 3d printing? which will m5 trigger?
whats the easiest software to create the g-code for cnc .i use cura for 3d printing
Do you have any experience with the cam Part of fusion 360 and do you know of firmware and the fitting Hardware to make a diy router/mill that can be used with fusion 360?
That's awesome. Any thoughts on mounting your vacuum cleaner hose next to the rotary tool, like a reverse part-cooling fan? ;-)
I did exactly this and it's fantastic. I 3D printed a mount and duct with a C-shaped downward-facing opening around the cutter. It really works at minimizing the mess. In my case the mill is a Chinese 3020 with the controller replaced by a Smoothie board.
Pretty damn slick!
estlcam cant start the job at, for example: 10mm height, it can only move below zero on the z axis, but you cant move the head of de 3d printer below zero, so how did you make this work?
Getting a great finish in aluminum comes down to a few things:
1) Speeds & Feeds. GWizard is amazing at figuring that out. You'll need the recommended chipload from the tool manufacturer, specs for your spindle, and the total weight of your machine.
2) Square gantry. Just like leveling the bed is essential for 3d print success, Having the spindle/gantry square to the bed will take your finish to the next level. Get about 160-170mm of 6mm rod and bend at 30mm in into an acute angle at around 100 degrees. Chuck the rod into the spindle and step down the z-axis until it's almost touching. Spin it by hand to see where the low spot is at, then add shims to the offending side of the gantry or spindle mount. Keep it up until the rod continually lightly scrapes the bed at the same z-height all around.
3) Way stiffness. If you're switching the belts for preloaded screws, make sure to use supported linear rails. Unsupported rails are a floppy sad mess and leave floppy sad cuts. :(
4) Chip clearance. Recutting chips exposes you to welding chips and heats up the part way too much. Hook up some loc-line coolant hoses to a cheap air compressor with a ball valve between the two and ziptie that beast to the spindle. Before turning on the spindle for a cut, aim the line about 5mm from the bottom of the tool and check with fingertips that strong air is reaching it.
Bonus Round 1) As for protecting the electronics, night I suggest DIY Ikea bellows?
Bonus Round 2) Fusion 360 is free if your shop earns less than $100,000 USD per/yr. I don't do that much business, but I'll be super stoked to pay that license when the time comes.
is the control board running the original firmware?
Have you thought about changing the electronics to a beaglebone black + cramps setup, and trying machinekit linuxcnc? With that you should be able to swap out tools to 3d print as well. Keyword is should...
Make a diy cnc miller and cut a mk2 Dolly frame with it please
flippin Awesome!!!
Does the power supply just drive the spindle? What about the electronics? They usually take 12/24v, so I wonder if you are running two power supplies or stepping down the current for the controller board?
I wonder if you could reuse the plastic trash you produce with the 3D printer to make recycled plastic sheets that you would then mill on the converted 3D printer (with a hot press or something similar). Also, using the aluminium flakes in the recycled plastics would provide some fabulous glitter.
is this cnc can machine steel ??with right bits ?
5:05 wut where do you get those v grooved wheel and rail ?
how you set firm from 3d to cnc???
How rigid and accurate do you find the v slot wheels and extrusions are? comparable to mgn linear guides or a step down from them?
Thomas Sanladerer great, thanks for the advice
Yo how do you convert the .nc file (output form EstlCAM) to gcode file? I can't find any solution on the internet either
On my MM3 I have a Smoothieboard and external 32MS drivers installed, currently. But with the rise of the i3 MK2 and having two of them running flawlessly, the MM3 is staying still for the most time. Calibrating it manually is a pain. So converting it to a CNC mill seams the right way to go for me, too. The only thing I would do from the start is to install a vacuum cleaner attachment to the spindle, to avoid the chips flying around. We have it on our regular CNC mill and it prevents the mess I saw in the video effectively.
an extractor next to the nozzle reduce hoover pipe with smaller pipe 10mm you can 3d print an adaptor from 30mm to 10 :)
Can I do this on a creality and cut thin metal
Ha, thats cool. I did the opposite, I built a CNC router and added 3D printing. I started with a C-Beam Machine by Openbuilds. I modified GRBL 0.9j to run on a Mega/RAMPS board. Now all I need to do is get a second Mega so I don't have flash Marlin/GRBL when I want to switch between 3D printing/CNC.
Nice job man! A true Inventor, you are! :-) BUT, can you make a high-axis CNC mill?
Did you get a chance to try out milling some carbon fiber plate?
I was toying with the idea of putting together a self build 3D printer and converting it so it could to light CNC milling as well. I even identified the newer Proxxon hobby tool as a possible spindle.Comparisons all seem to rate it as far more durable than the Dremel.
In the end though I guessed that the build would always be too compromised by starting with a printer. It seems like you're going to spend quite a bit in combined time and outlay to beef the printer up in order to get a very lightweight mill that may still shorten the axis motors' lives significantly. You're already starting to look like Theseus.
I think the only satisfactory way to go, at least if you only want 1 machine in the room, is to save up for one of those Chinese $1,500-$2,000 5 axis CNCs and build a print head and heated bed to fit it.
That outlay typically gives you:
- 1 to 2kw water cooled spindle;
- 5 axis CNC milling (with the software by the looks. Pirate?) and wide range of compatible end mills available;
- a tank with some of them, if you need to cut while using coolant;
- a CNC router that takes a useful range of bits;
- an engraver;
- possibly even a 3D part scanner by attaching a measuring tool;
- and finally a 3D printer as well.
Repeatable placement of tool placement is typically quoted as
i also work on a Heidenhain iTNC 530 and 5 axis CNC :)
A tutorial for PCB milling would be nice ;)
buy a plotter and some copper film tape
Very cool.
awsome. nice vid
thanks, that was fun
super cool! I've always wanted a mill myself. How loud would you estimate that 400w spindle is? not sure I can justify it in my apartment just yet
Thomas Sanladerer do you think an enclosure could attenuate it to a reasonable volume provided they're were an attachment to vacuum up the chips?
Very interresting video!
Before I designed and built my 3D printer, i built a CNC router with openbuilds parts.
I originally had an idea to combine both machines into one.
Nice idea, but not that good in practice;
- CNC needs very strong parts which do weigh more, so not ideal for 3D printing
- 3D printer needs a clean environment. When CNC milling, lots of dust/chips are made.
You would preferrably have the CNC machine in your garage and a 3D printer in a office environment
So in one way or the other, you are going to make consessions for the 3D printer or the CNC router.
Both the 3D printer (aluminium, no printed parts) and CNC machine work good, but i experienced too much flex on the cutter when milling with the CNC machine. The forces on the cutter are not to be underestimated!
I made the machine stronger which did a good job up to some point, but i wanted to mill aluminium more and more.
That's why i'm building a second CNC machine right now, using SBR20 rails and 16mm ballscrews.
See my 3D printer and my openbuilds CNC machine here:
3D printer: www.openbuilds.com/builds/yaop-yet-another-openbuilds-printer.1493/
CNC: www.openbuilds.com/builds/yaor-yet-another-openbuilds-router.825/
You need to match the material removal rate to the power of the spindle.
The feed rates looked way, way to fast for the Proxxon's 90W.
take a look at mach 4 machining software, it's reasonable, powerful and compatible with most motion boards. tons of plugging and a support forum.
Hallo Thomas ein super Video wie immer. Mit der Proxxon hab ich das gleiche Problem gehabt müsste ich auch 2 kaufen. Das kleine micromotor mit separate Netzteil hab ich danach verwendet und hat super funktioniert zum gravieren und Holz zu Scheiden.
Mach weiter so mit deine Video 👌
Hi Guys, I just had an Idea about using Cura slicer for CNC routers, what if we inverted the G-Code created by the slicer, i.e. the G-code starts from the end of the file, of course the stl file should be modified to accommodate this, instead of having the design on cura one will have to draw the contours and change the layer and nozzle and fan settings, would this work? My 3D printer is infected with Covid 19 confinement and I can't touch it for the moment.
Hello sir what software u use for this