Simple DIY PCB with a 3D Printer
Вставка
- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
- Convert your 3D Printer into a light duty CNC mill! Here I show engraving, drilling and cutting single sided copper clad board to make a PCB with a Dremel style rotary tool attached to my HyperCube 3D Printer.
Watch my next PCB video here:
► • Advanced DIY PCB with ...
________________________________________________________
► / tech2c
A very special thank you to Patrons:
Zak Gurney Chalmers
________________________________________________________
Download the HyperCube 3D Printer/CNC from Thingiverse:
►www.thingivers...
0.8 - 3mm End Mill 10 pack:
►www.banggood.c...
0.6mm End Mill:
►www.banggood.c...
0.3mm V-shape Engraving Bits PCB:
►www.banggood.c...
One Side Copper Clad PCB board:
►www.banggood.c...
Buy cheap 3D Printer kits and parts from Banggood:
►goo.gl/bFyz5H
Amazon 3D Printers and Parts:
►amzn.to/2qdTebt
Music: Future Funk by Joakim Karud
PLEASE PLEASE give some details about the rotary tool .
is it a dremel ? just a high RPM motor ? what is it ? what sort of RPM do i need for it ?
Details in the previous video here ua-cam.com/video/IJxqXk-wdJw/v-deo.html
Goto aliexpress and search 200w (5.5”) or 300w (6.8”) 12000rpm 48v max spindle and they come with er 11 or 16 collets for $15-32 shipped.
Don't use same rotary tool as you would have same issue as Tech2C with tolerances and z-play. Just having a Dremel would solve this problem alone, as Dremel have a much better flex shaft. I had some chineseum rotary tool and Dremel, and even tried dremel flex shaft as a router on aluminum (bad idea), killed and changed bearings in flex shaft. Everything about Dremel is better than cheap chinese stuff, but even dremel have tiny bearings in a shaft, not very suited for side-load. BUT For this application I'd rather buy cheap 12V brushed motor with a small collet chuck (used and sold for purpose of drilling PCB).
@@glennedward2201 search "double bearing 775 motor" and "er11 chuck" instead..
@@avelkm A fellow AvE fan?
DONT TURN IT ON. TAKE IT APART ....wait wrong channel.
suraj bhawal Bob's your uncle!!!
lol
Blimey!, It's smaller than half a bee's dick!
took me a minute to figure out that it wasn't Dave speaking :o
No, Dave's voice is a higher pitch.....for a hoot, on Dave's channel turn playback speed to .50 ...he then sounds like a drunken Grandmother.... :P
Just keep in mind that the fiberblass is abrasive and the copper is conductive. You really want to have a vacuum attachment of some sort or else it's going to get into your motors, belts, power supply, that exposed control board, etc.
If you plan to do this often, I recommend a Shapeoko or similar with a Suck-It attachment.
Having used a PCB milling machine 20 years ago I have a few recommendations for you. When milling you do not want to cut in the glass fiber substrate unless necessary. It will wear out the end mill in no time. A proper calibrated PCB mill only cuts into the copper and glue. And when routing the final cut-out, do it in one pass so you won't wear out the tip of the end mill. The tip you use for the fine milling on copper, and the shaft on glass fiber.
Prober end mills aren't cheap.
Why did you cut the PCB smack bang in the center of your large board?
Let's be honest here, we've all overestimated certain sizes in the past...
@@pco1984 that's fair enough, just curious didn't mean to offend anyone.
Well I bought the PCB for this video, so I don't have an immediate use for the left over PCB afterwards.
You mean because you weren't thinking.
*smack dab
Diy pcb with diy CNC... you're not printing anything.
and a 3d printer isn't a cnc?
@@king_james_official no. They work in the exact opposite ways. A 3d printer is an additive process. Cnc removes materials.
@@xjunkxyrdxdog89 what the hell are you talking about... i think you mean a mill...
@king_james_official I'm talking about the colloquial term "cnc". You are correct, I do mean a cnc mill. Now name an example in common English where people use cnc to mean anything else?
@@xjunkxyrdxdog89 it just annoys me that people throw around words like they know what they mean and then it becomes something else. cnc just means a computer controls it (device) with numbers. sorry if i sound aggressive or smth
Great video. BTW you sound a lot like Dave from EEVBlog...
freaking true. Dave Jones the second :-D
lol
i legitimately thought this was Dave from EEVBlog's second youtube channel lool UNCANNY
Exactly 😃
es, you sure do sound like dave also sharing the accent and clarity. Could you pls advise on another software as flat cam seems to be paid now?
I have more than a year of experience with milling pcbs. I first tried with my 3d printer, then made a dedicated milling machine. For good results you absolutely have to use autoleveling. For pcbs larger than, let's say 3cm, you will have terrible results as on some areas you will barely scratch the surface or dig too deep. On my dedicated machine i am using MACH3 as the milling software, a free tool for probing and autoleveling the pcb and flatcam. The probing tool acts as a post processor for the gcode from flatcam and modifies it so the clearing is always consistent. I forgot the name of the software though.
Yes I agree. I had enabled the auto bed level feature in Marlin firmware of my 3D printer, and the intention was to show bed leveling for the V bit. If I can remove the slop in the flex shaft I'll revisit it.
Tech2C best option would be buying a dedicated brushless motor with collet included besides to less noise it has the capability of rpm control
The problem is basically that the copper clad laminate isn't guaranteed to be flat across it's surface, i've seen 'ripples' greater than 0.3mm. So what the Mach3 probing tool does is profile the surface and generates a Z axis pre-distortion of the G code to compensate for the out of flatness surface.
Also, I would order the Gcode files, so that you drill the holes first, the route the tracks, then clear the copper, then do the outline.
This stops pads from ripping off when the holes are drilled afterwards, as there is more copper around them.
There is no additional software needed in Marlin as its build in, just once enabled and mapped in Marlin (up to 12 probe level points) in ConfigH, and you use G29 command. Then follow this video to wire the touch place (in your case, you don't need one. Just clip the ground to the plate, and + to the end mill).
marlinfw.org/docs/gcode/G029-abl.html
marlinfw.org/docs/gcode/G029-abl.html
Is the "autoleveling" some device/sensor that Tech2C can possibly attach to the 'mill head' of his 3d printer, kinda like the one used to detect the proximity of the bed when using the 'printing head'? Actually, can the same sensor be used for autoleveling?
I think it would be smart to make a circular blower style part-cooler, like on a 3d printer head, but with much larger vents... and attach it to a vacuum... vacuum up the shavings as it goes 👌
the shaft of the flexible-dremel handpiece has 2 bearings, you could glue them in with some CA glue. when i did that on mine, no z play at all anymore.
Maybe print your own adapter with a spring between the bearings? Should be a nice usefull project. That is what i am planning for mine....
Ratbites (the small bridges holding the PCB in place) are convenient; but a word of warning about them: PCB's has a tendency to delaminate near them and put mechanical stress on the components. It's not a problem here; but if you use SMD components near the rat bite it may cause trouble.
I experienced this problem first-hand for one of our designs. I had pointed this problem out to a manufacturer; but they assured me they had this under control. Half a year later we received defective units back - all with the same symptom. Diagnosing the boards I found they all had a capacitor with a DC resistance of a few kilo-ohms. By casting the boards in resin, grinding them down and inspecting under microscope we learned the capacitors had cracks that originated from the rat-bite.
We call them mouse bites. 3 small holes and 2 larger holes on the outsides.
Well, you did make it in 3D printer, so it is Printer Circuit Board. /s ;)
Its not a 3d printer anymore 3d printer ads matirial and a cnc removes it so you have a cnc machien
I really liked the video, but could you please make a tutorial on how to use Flatcam?
If I make this 3d printed pcb at home and attached components the correct way will it work?
Another thing about isolation routing, it alters the electrical properties of the PCB substrate.
The PCB substrate acts much like a capacitor; conductors above and below an insulator.
Thinning the PCB substrate will change the capacitance of any traces passing over the thinned areas.
For a single-sided quicky PCB, not an issue.
For a double-sided PCB RF or audio amplifier, alterations in PCB capacitance would be a disaster.
Same with any high-speed circuitry; variations in capacitance = variations in impedance.
Point being made: Isolation routing is quick and dirty, emphasis on dirty.
Great idea to use 3d Printer instead of manual and time consuming drawing and acid PCB making
Fiberglass dust is much more safely than acids (No,actually)
I don't think so
With photographic replication and etching you are faster than the 20 minutes used on this small board, independently of size and with much more precision than 0.8mm, traces thru pins. He should have used phenolic instead of epoxy because he can not plate thru anyway.
Ok I'll let you know when I come back bye bye for now••••••
That is VERY vile dust. Don't get it in you!
Or in the machines!
protip: manually get the printer close, Then release the drill bit until it falls into the copper and then screw the bit in tight :)
Great video! thank you for sharing this information. I may give this a try in the future on my CNC.
One suggestion. Drill your holes first. The reason is because it is possible, especially when your end mill might be getting dull or poor quality laminate, for there to be a hint of tear out. Having a lot of copper around the hole at the time of the drill out will help support the surrounding copper.
I really did like your video! Thanks!
Can you take apart the extension head, and just print a new one (redesigned) that meets your desired tolerances? Seems like a perfect use case of the 3d printer =)!
Great video. Thanks a lot. You are capable of explaining complex things in a fast and clear way. If you want to avoid breathing expoxy dust you can put a tiny bit of oil on the board is stead of a mask. ;) Best regards an thanks again.
Awesome video! :)
another great video Cant wait for my Chinesium Dremel and flex to arrive :-)
Why did you cut it from the middle of the sheet?It's a rectangle,you could have use two existing outside edges
and had no waste.
For those more into etching: You can do about the same thing with a fine tip Sharpie to lay down a mask that does a good job resisting both FeCl and CuCl2 etchants. Got a plotter head for my Prusa just for this.
That said, building a PCB router or converting a printer does cut out messing with chemical etchants and masking. I'd probably want to either mod in a vacuum line to take care of the shavings, or a coolant line to keep shavings mostly captive on the board or in a runoff bucket. The former option would probably be way easier on a retooled printer. Metal shavings can be a right pain in the ass around computers, exposed wiring, intake fans, etc.
I've become a dj adjusting sound volume, next time do it for me when editing, ok?
God damn it. Every time the video starts I think I'm listening to Dave Jones. I'm still not quite convinced this isn't his channel.
Bummer! I totally thought it's Dave!
It’s not a 3D printer, it’s a CNC mill.
converted
Hi there thank you for the video... Your 3d printer I suppose is expensive , not all common guys can afford such a tool ... I am thinking if is not possibly to using cheap 3D printers with plastic filament to print the circuit on PCB and after common etching method , to eliminate that plastic with something ( maybe acetone ) and have a ready pcb for driling and mounting the electronics on it ...
From Russia with respect, you get great
It's not a 3d printer it's a cnc route
Question. Could you use the normal 3D printer filament directly on the copper board as an object one layer deep? Then etch the board normally with the printed plastic as the resist?
I like it. I don't know what it's for but I like it. Great for prototyping if you have gear like this and don't want to fiddle with printer, etch resist, chemicals etc for 2-5 boards and super tiny leads aren't an issue.
can you call it a PCB if no printing is used to create it?
Always Tin engraved PCB's. Use a heat gun and Oaty 95 paste. This ensures a quick local heat buildup when soldering. Bare copper has a tendency to spread the heat quickly and delaminates extremely easy. SMD parts are almost impossible to mill in. The copper surface has a tendency to chip at a certain thickness when using a vbit. The FR4 backer is usually pretty brittle at a small size. Easier to mount a .1mm pen from sharpie and etch.
No mmz!! Ala mierda! Eso sí me interesa!!!
A better solution for holding down is Golf Club Grip Tape. It comes in wide rolls and you can release by turning on the heated to 55°C.
HI. I wonder how you managed to start a CNC GCODE in a simple 3d printer firmware? I mean.... flat cam generates G01 X...... GCODe, without Y-axis coordinates
Love your channel - You do not use top end gear and the way you modify your printer with all the gear (drill, laser, 3d printer head, dremel, etc) is just amazing. Really shows what can be done.
Cheers
Jim
Good video to demo the copper clad laminated PCB circuit router function limitation using 3D printer modified head . I had seen more than 90% you tuber using 100% copper plate and making PCB circuit to achieve 0.1mm or much smaller width circuit path width (fake and not possible !) .I wonder how the electronic circuit ( never Shot/Ground with 100 copper PCB ??!!!!) And the Presenter video never show the Edge of the PCB !! When I ask them are you using laminated copper coil-plate super glue on top of the Insulating Bakelite material??? Nobody dare to answer back to clear my doubt !!! You are one of the ten percent people telling the Real Truth !!! Good job done .
13:30 but shouldn't you not solder onto a micrcontroller, as the heat could damage the component?
No it's quite OK to directly solder them (if I've understood your double negative properly!). But you should be quick, like with all pcb mounted components, and let any bad-looking joints cool off before retouching them. Ppl only use sockets to make them easy to change, if you want to reprogram them off-board.
Check bCNC auto leveling, it uses the electrical contact of tool to pcb to compensate curved surfaces. Covering the pcb in WD40 will help with thinner mills, and keeps the dust in control (mud).
I tried bCNC a while ago. The auto bed leveling I couldn't get to work. I have used Marlin's inbuilt bilinear ABL using alligator clips on the PCB and drill bit. WD40 is a good idea!
chilipeppr fro me works fine but i like bcnc too.
Have you thought of adding a small blower to the tool so that it can clear its path itself? You could probably use a small computer fan and some plastic tubing, that way you could even make it a weak vacuum by inverting said fan
Useful video, accurate work and clear explanation.. Thank you very much indeed.
Wow, looks super dangerous, you sure that safety protection is enough? Never too safe, might want to wear a helmet.
You could 3d print something to remove the slight Z movement. I'm thinking of something like an L - shaped bracket with a bearing, so the drill bit can go through the center of it.
Only thing I would do different is put a whole piece of wasteboard under the copperclad. You've created a pivot point by putting the board in the middle of the copper as it will flex with pressure on the ends. Just my useless 2 cents......then again, if you don't travel off the boards size who cares?
I have a set of mills like you have and mine starts at 0.3mm. You could snap it with your finger for sure it's that fine.
Do you think that engraver would cut into Cedar wood to make a business card type? or business cards?
What you need is a vaccum hose that is running next to the drill. Otherwise excellent project.
Just don't CNC mill a copper-clad Labrador!
My bit (same manufacturer) shattered after 0.01seconds
Software bashed it on the board surface? They don't like that! Also FR4 pcb is very abrasive, and I wonder just how long the bits will last!
It would be good to mention not only the saftey googles but also a respiratory mask as personal protection gear. You are producing a considerable amount of tiny fiberglas particles. They are not healthy for your lungs. Although not cancerogenic (www.doh.wa.gov/CommunityandEnvironment/AirQuality/IndoorAir/Fiberglass) they are for sure not the best for your lungs
мдаа ну ты даёшь зачем так много снимать текстолита? и вообще-то эти фрезы не для текстолита предназначены, для текстолита есть специальные фрезы, зачем по середине начинать экономить не учили?, и переделывать 3D принтер не целесообразно так как станок специализированный для работы с текстолитом стоит дешевле даже 3D принтера для России он с Китая от 11 000 до 21 000 в зависимости от комплектации для вас это ещё дешевле так как изначальная цена товара у продавца в долларах для России идёт конвертация по текущему курсу в рубли.
Your printer needs a thin hoover pipe travelling with the cutter head , Save all that dust from causing chatter.
Should use the end mills just for the outline/drills. Try using the laser diode for "isolation routing" on black spray paint which can be used as etch resist
Yeah I've never made a custom PCB but this tripped me out not using any chemicals.....but hey I guess it'll work for anything that doesn't need to be packed in tight!
Is black spray paint good enough for etching chemicals?
yes.
wait wait wait!! is that you?? eevlog? am i the only one who's familiar with his voice??
Excellent demonstration ! I have wondered if there was any way to do this with a mill...now I know how. Thank you very much. Hope to see more videos.
wat a waste of resources.
Hardly a simple diy pcb which requires heavily modifying a printer !!!
cutting too deep. you shouldn't have any glass fiber dust coming off from milling (apart ftom cutout).
Good condition
Are these end mill cutters still 0.47US$ each? I see one for SFr 6.49. About $6 each.
...don't forget to run g21 at the start when working with grbl and engraving pcbs.....don't ask me why, trust me on this one. a great trick for leveling is using a multimeter put into continuinity mode by the way so you can level it perfectly with the bed
I have a homemade cnc with a Dremel as the spindle. This is exactly what I need to do to get it dialed in
7:33 A simple electrical circuit light build could indicate Home position
Do the hole drilling first before the isolation... It stops pads from getting ripped off
Which printer I could easily buy to attach something like that and make PCB?
Looks like the second attempt is not the same as the one from frame 10:48 and to frame 11:54 are they two different attempts? some of the holes look ragged and over the edges in the first one ?
thats not a "3D printer" now. it does not add material to print. therefore it uses subtractive manifacturing. its now a cnc engraver
This is not a 3D printer, this is just a CBC rotary tool, please fix the title, it’s wrong
I about to make one of this machine for education, Do you do both side milling?
What printer is this and how have you modified it?
When did Frank Woodley start making electronics tutorials?
Nice video, but please get rid of that nasty piece of soggy board under the bed
Creative video shot, thank you for sharing it, keep it up :)
You sound kinda like EEV...awesome video btw.
I actually exited full screen to see if i was watching eev
Dude!! Go full AvE on it and shim that play out!! Its not rocket science. ;)
Haha
I love me some AvE
Rocket surgery*
Do you have links to the CNC mill holder STL as well as the dremel/spindle you used?
Details in the previous video: ua-cam.com/video/IJxqXk-wdJw/v-deo.html
Great sir I want know about electic part of 3d printer and cnc
I got the same flexible shaft, and it doesn't have the Z axis problem! It has no play at all... I didn't buy any V bit because of that, but now that I see it doesn't have the issue I ordered a couple.
Very lucky there! I'm about to switch over to another flex shaft with no play. Cheers!
Your experience with the engraving bit in that tool was not unusual. CNC engraving of PCBs has a whole science behind it. There are special sprung holders, special leveling programs, and more. It's not unlike what the 3D printing industry has been going through lately, with auto bed leveling and more.
can you not print your curcuit on to a base using a copper ( ink ?)
That was a big waste of pcb, milling in the middle
can we just mount a pen and draw the circuit on pcb and etch it?
seem one cannot download flatcam anymore.
Hello, I am trying to install Flatcam. But do not have any experience with Python, and little experience with Linux. The tutorials in "Flatcam" site, are quite advanced, and I cannot follow the process. Do you have any video on installing Flatcam? would be very much appreciated. Regards
You know, even a clock is right two times a day but when you find yourself in a situation where Matt agrees with you on any point you've effed up. If I say I love strawberries and Matt backs my opinion publicly I guess I'll never eat strawberries again.
hey buddy thank you for this wonderful tutorial....i followed you and found that my y axis of ender 3 doesn't move a bit...i checked gcode there is one difference in code....your all y axis values are positive, but mine are all negative..all numbers have - (minus) sign before them....what could i do here?...if u could help it would be your favour on me....
как из большого куска текстолита сделать маленькую плату)
For everybody who whants to use drilling/milling for printing PCBs: DON'T! It does not work! It is not that easy as shown. The Author misses telling you how many trials it took. He neglects the work you have to put in to callibrate everything and he fails ot show the limitations of this method (you cant place anything smaller than 3~4mm on the board)
Just use Acid. Which is much more healthy. Yeah, he also forgets to tell us how bad copper and carbon dust is!
Ithink this is faster than the acid bath method. isn't it?
To those interested. Milling pcb starts after 7 minutes. Don’t use a Dremel spindle if you want a cleaner finish. Aliexpress has the 200w and 300w 8mm shaft with er11 or er16 collet holders for $15-$32 if you scroll around lowest price shipped.
Impressive that you can use one machine to make a PCB , and then a plastic housing for your projects. Maybe more 3D printer makers should start building this milling ability in to their machines to make the devices much more versatile. The same XYZ mechanism could be a 3D printer, light milling machine and laser engraver by swapping the head. A really fancy model could have the heads automatically changeable perhaps.
Isolation routing? So NASA 1970's!!!
Whatever happened to printing a resist directly onto copper with PETG, then using an etching solution to remove excess copper?
Cutting into the PCB stock only weakens the substrate, plus the rough surface from milling acts to trap moisture and contamination.
If the cutting is too deep, there is a chance of de-laminating the fiberglass!
Heated bed @90C + PETG + copper-clad panel = precision etching resist.
I would like to make some special cut business cards in wood. The size of a business card. Will this machine cut (-0.50) or maybe 1.0mm deep? and for the size how long would it take for something of that size?
Why not just print traces on copper, etch, remove plastic - done..?
You could do that, but you would still have to drill the holes. This is an extra step in the process. And how easy would it be to clean off the plastic well enough to allow the components to be soldered on?
Currently i'm looking for a reliable solution to make pcb's without chemicals, and this one is quite interesting. Do you think the same could be done with laser? I mean, i've never seen anyone go from A to B without using acid.
he mate just a hint but make a small device with 2 crocodile clamps and a led and move your z axis 0.01mm this way you can level perfectly and have a perfect 0. or even override your z limit switch to do it automatically and even use z probing. clamp 1 croc on the bit and 1 on the clad. its both conductive so it acts as a switch.
Since when a CNC became a 3D Printer?
Nice video, just set up something similiar with EAGLE and PCB_GCODE, because I cannot get FLATCAM to work.
Tried it on WIN10 and MAC OS but trouble all over the place.
Is it required to install all the additional software for FLATCAM to start working?
Could you make a video on how to install FLATCAM on WIN10 or MAXvOS
Thanks in advance.