Pilsner urquell is my all time favorite beer. I’ve been trying to clone it for many years. I’ve done a few decoction mashes too- and I can just never get it 100% right. Looks like a good beer on your end, cheers!
Thanks for sharing. The acid rest milky wort is because you are way below gelantinization temps, so there is basically flour in the liquid. If you have an electric heating element based system it is not a good time to turn it on around these temps as the "flour" will stick and scorch. In general, I would say there is no need to perform an acid rest for this style of beer with modern malts. Might make sense for a hefeweizen but I do not see the value for a pils. With modern malts, a 135F dough-in is probably as low as you want to go. I think you would benefit from examining your process and trying to keep the trub in your boil kettle and out of your fermenter. Try a post chilling settling rest so all of that stuff can settle to the bottom of the kettle and then draw off above it. Since you are using a plate chiller just direct the chilled wort back into the kettle or into a sanitized brew bucket with a spigot. Let that sit in a fridge for an hour and draw the clear wort off into your fermenter.
Do not boil the mash, if you must boil only the wort without the grain. Boiling the mash does not caramelize the grain but does extract tannin from the husk. Decoction mash was used before reliable thermometers were available. Decoction mashes are unpleasantly bitter due to tannin extraction. The voice of experience from a science trained person.
@@IMakeBeer Been brewing since 1968, tried decoction a few times always with two brews one decoction and one with my usual stepped mash. Stepped mash was always a bit paler and always far superior in flavor/aroma. Decoction always had a harsh bitterness like strong black tea. The steps I use, start with 55 C water, mix grain, heat to 70 C while stiring, then leave for 20 min or so. Quite quick, I easily do two brews in a day and 3 if I start early. I have two Bohemian pils lagering at the moment 4% a/v and 6.5% a/v.
Respectfully, I would disagree with the idea that decocting extracts tannins that produce harshness in your finished beer. It should not. I have done many German and Czech styles using single double or triple decoctions depending on the style and have found it to be a great lever to pull as far as modulating the overall body, color, and “maltiness” of the finished beer depending on the malt bill and how the decoctions are performed. If you perceive a harshness in your finished beer I would suspect a number of things that might contribute to your extracting tannic off-flavors. Top of mind is alkalinity- if your mash ph is off you will definitely extract tannins in a decoction, second is the length of the decoction boil and whether or not you first perform a saccharification rest on the portion you pull, third if overshooting your mash temp when returning the boiled portion to the MT you can definitely have that issue. Return the decoction gradually, stirring as you go, and pay close attention to how it affects your mash temp. Last but not least is water profile and yeast situation. You really want to nail a low mineral content and very soft water with Czech styles - otherwise they can certainly present harshness from the hops and some effects from fermentation. You will want to build a pretty large starter especially on wort that exceeds 12°p, a well oxygenated wort is your friend and temperature control is mandatory. For Urquell strain for instance I Pitch super cold at 40° and let it rise naturally to 50° and hold it there until fully attenuated and then lager it for 1 week per degree Plato. Sounds long but the results don’t lie. I don’t make Czech beers without clearing my calendar haha
@@nb561 I have an engineering and a science degree and post grad qualifications. Brewed since 1968, won multiple prizes at competition in cluding 2 best of show at state competitions. Tannins will be extracted above 80 C with pH as low as 5 and being science trained I am very particular about the chemistry. Brew 2 identical beers but one a stepped mash and one a full decoction being the only difference as I have done several times to see the difference. Other myths in brewing, kettle caramalisation or Malliard reaction, both only happen at 130 C and 170 C respectively so will only happen in water if scorched on the bottom, which is poor technique.
I agree with you that it would be poor technique to scorch your decoction however when done correctly the technique absolutely does generate some color pickup as well as the production of certain aromatic and flavor notes that I prefer over the use melanoidin malts in a regular step mash. I’ve had the good fortune of being able to spend a good amount of time in the Czech Republic and had the pleasure of meeting some interesting brewers there who gave me the opportunity to observe their process firsthand and never experienced what you are describing as harshness in any of their beers in spite of most of them using direct fire kettles for their decoction process. In my own recipes as well. Perhaps the length of cold conditioning makes a difference - most home brewers are doing 4-6 weeks for a pale lager whereas I stand by 1 week per degree Plato of lagering time on decocted beers. So that’s 11-13 weeks. Some amount of perceived harshness might soften up in that timeframe. I think there is allot of good opportunity, particularly when using under modified bohemian base malts and believe it can be worth the extra attention to detail and time. I’d take another look at your own decoction processes if the result is not what you were aiming for. Or don’t. Taste is highly personal and subjective- it could just be that you don’t like the way those taste and that’s completely okay too!
Pilsner urquell is my all time favorite beer. I’ve been trying to clone it for many years. I’ve done a few decoction
mashes too- and I can just never get it 100% right. Looks like a good beer on your end, cheers!
It did come out better than expected. Thanks for watching.
Thanks for sharing. The acid rest milky wort is because you are way below gelantinization temps, so there is basically flour in the liquid. If you have an electric heating element based system it is not a good time to turn it on around these temps as the "flour" will stick and scorch. In general, I would say there is no need to perform an acid rest for this style of beer with modern malts. Might make sense for a hefeweizen but I do not see the value for a pils. With modern malts, a 135F dough-in is probably as low as you want to go.
I think you would benefit from examining your process and trying to keep the trub in your boil kettle and out of your fermenter. Try a post chilling settling rest so all of that stuff can settle to the bottom of the kettle and then draw off above it. Since you are using a plate chiller just direct the chilled wort back into the kettle or into a sanitized brew bucket with a spigot. Let that sit in a fridge for an hour and draw the clear wort off into your fermenter.
Thanks for the info. I’ll look into to that.
Just found your channel and already subscribed
Thanks Bro. I appreciate your Sub. Keep watching................
Just found your channel today, really good content keep it going !
Thanks, appreciate it.
Thats a great looking beer and makes me want to grab one from the fridge.
Cheers
Thanks. Hope you enjoyed your beer.
Just let it sit for around 3 months... Looks great!
It was!! Thanks.
Good looking brew. Bills fan here in Dallas. Fire McDermott!
I live in Western NY. Have to be a Bills fan. Cheers.
The wort color looks fine at those temperatures.
Don't fudge on cold side fining. I use gelatin myself and it works well. Some use Biofine.
I use Biofine. I added it late after it was kegged so I Don't think it had enough time to clear. All good though.
The color is from the rest, same murky results if you do a protein rest
Yea found that out. Thanks.
Do not boil the mash, if you must boil only the wort without the grain. Boiling the mash does not caramelize the grain but does extract tannin from the husk. Decoction mash was used before reliable thermometers were available. Decoction mashes are unpleasantly bitter due to tannin extraction. The voice of experience from a science trained person.
Thanks for your input. I only did it because I've never done it before. Beer came out fantastic. Probably wont do it again, but it was fun.
@@IMakeBeer Been brewing since 1968, tried decoction a few times always with two brews one decoction and one with my usual stepped mash. Stepped mash was always a bit paler and always far superior in flavor/aroma. Decoction always had a harsh bitterness like strong black tea. The steps I use, start with 55 C water, mix grain, heat to 70 C while stiring, then leave for 20 min or so. Quite quick, I easily do two brews in a day and 3 if I start early. I have two Bohemian pils lagering at the moment 4% a/v and 6.5% a/v.
Respectfully, I would disagree with the idea that decocting extracts tannins that produce harshness in your finished beer. It should not. I have done many German and Czech styles using single double or triple decoctions depending on the style and have found it to be a great lever to pull as far as modulating the overall body, color, and “maltiness” of the finished beer depending on the malt bill and how the decoctions are performed. If you perceive a harshness in your finished beer I would suspect a number of things that might contribute to your extracting tannic off-flavors. Top of mind is alkalinity- if your mash ph is off you will definitely extract tannins in a decoction, second is the length of the decoction boil and whether or not you first perform a saccharification rest on the portion you pull, third if overshooting your mash temp when returning the boiled portion to the MT you can definitely have that issue. Return the decoction gradually, stirring as you go, and pay close attention to how it affects your mash temp. Last but not least is water profile and yeast situation. You really want to nail a low mineral content and very soft water with Czech styles - otherwise they can certainly present harshness from the hops and some effects from fermentation. You will want to build a pretty large starter especially on wort that exceeds 12°p, a well oxygenated wort is your friend and temperature control is mandatory. For Urquell strain for instance I Pitch super cold at 40° and let it rise naturally to 50° and hold it there until fully attenuated and then lager it for 1 week per degree Plato. Sounds long but the results don’t lie. I don’t make Czech beers without clearing my calendar haha
@@nb561 I have an engineering and a science degree and post grad qualifications. Brewed since 1968, won multiple prizes at competition in cluding 2 best of show at state competitions. Tannins will be extracted above 80 C with pH as low as 5 and being science trained I am very particular about the chemistry. Brew 2 identical beers but one a stepped mash and one a full decoction being the only difference as I have done several times to see the difference. Other myths in brewing, kettle caramalisation or Malliard reaction, both only happen at 130 C and 170 C respectively so will only happen in water if scorched on the bottom, which is poor technique.
I agree with you that it would be poor technique to scorch your decoction however when done correctly the technique absolutely does generate some color pickup as well as the production of certain aromatic and flavor notes that I prefer over the use melanoidin malts in a regular step mash. I’ve had the good fortune of being able to spend a good amount of time in the Czech Republic and had the pleasure of meeting some interesting brewers there who gave me the opportunity to observe their process firsthand and never experienced what you are describing as harshness in any of their beers in spite of most of them using direct fire kettles for their decoction process. In my own recipes as well. Perhaps the length of cold conditioning makes a difference - most home brewers are doing 4-6 weeks for a pale lager whereas I stand by 1 week per degree Plato of lagering time on decocted beers. So that’s 11-13 weeks. Some amount of perceived harshness might soften up in that timeframe. I think there is allot of good opportunity, particularly when using under modified bohemian base malts and believe it can be worth the extra attention to detail and time. I’d take another look at your own decoction processes if the result is not what you were aiming for. Or don’t. Taste is highly personal and subjective- it could just be that you don’t like the way those taste and that’s completely okay too!