I wondered this myself, when this episode aired. The Borg are nomadic, or at least that's how the Federation knew them at this point in history...they don't hold territory, they assimilate, consume, and move on... Hell, everything they do is on a ship of some sort.
To ensure the safety of their crews, the Intrepid class vessels are all fitted with incel scanners. Naturally, should you reach Borg space, that particular scanner’s lit up like a Christmas tree.
@@ExSpoonman I was just trying to think of a semi-logical fanon justification. I thought: Cordrazine) what characteristic could the vast majority of Borg life forms on a planet share, Inaprovaline) well the poor dears’ve probably never been laid since they got assimilated, Ketracel White) OH MAN it’d be hilarious if Voyager had incel sensors. For crew safety! Romulan Ale) don’t worry, this particular space frog of a joke apparently can’t be deactivated via dissection, and is actually kinda into it, rawr 🐸 Snakeleaf) Oh man, I just accidentally half described the Gorn as depicted in Strange New Worlds 🦖😱 hawny space frogs with disturbing kinks!
What I really like about this two parter is that you get what was missing from this show. I kept expecting there to be conflict between the two leaders but it always felt like the writers were too afraid to have them disagree. But now you see them fracture and debate and there is that human drama and conflict that makes a story interesting.
See, that right there is what I'm talking about. Janeway going a bit darkside gives us fascinating opportunities to explore. And it's a fun reversal to see it from the Starfleet wunderkind instead of the actual terrorist.
I look forward to seeing how Chekov's screen, chekov's guns, chekov's boxy thing, and chekov's collection of now spotless game boy cartridges will save the day in part 2.
I screamed at the Arturo reference, THATS MY BOYYYY To be clear, I'm probably in the minority of people aged 18-25 that have seen sliders, Farscape, and other sci-fi of this era. I've always had a bit of an "old soul" and love stuff from that era as much as I love some modern entertainment. Sliders was a great show, till it wasn't. But when it was great, Arturo was a really good character. Miss that guy
I have to admit that 70% of the reason I watch these now is for the spacedog bit at the end. 😂 Pedant or Arsehole, keep up these highly entertaining vids.
0:48 Something to consider. The Probe could have a faster warp core. It's smaller. (I have heard) the energy needed to increase warp speed would have to factor in the Cube rule (or something like that). So a small probe might have all the power it needs to go faster. And since its small (and single purpose), it's structure integrity could be able to sustain high warp speed. (Just a thought.) But you can also assume the probe is almost always at warp. Voyager drops out of warp to explore a lot (and do repairs without the aid of holographic workers. Or other automatic drones. But, I digress). So it's safe to assume the probe would be ahead of Voyager.
Calling isolinear chips Game Boy cartridges? _This_ is why I Patreon you 🤣 My copy of Pokémon Blue got stolen by chavs. I just hope you’re doing well out there, somewhere, my kidnapped Charizard (gone but never forgotten) ❤️
One problem is that I never felt that species 8472 was so great a threat that it would justify Janeway siding with the Borg. Like, they'll only attack the Borg. In fact, perhaps because of Janeway's involvement, 8472 now see the Federation as a target. But what about "the weak shall perish"? Well, that's pretty much the motto of every stellar superpower in the Alpha Quadrant that isn't the Federation. And that, a telepathic message from an individual, is all we know of them. For what it could be, he is an extremist of his society. This would have been fixed if they had shown us that the 8472 were so fanatical about destroying the Borg that they were willing to destroy other species to prevent them from assimilating them. Or that they don't have an understanding of mechanical technology and see it as an offense.
Just once showing the NumberSpecies as hostile to everything would've made it more of an "enemy of my enemy" thing. And we could have had it during Blood Fever with the species that got attacked mentioning a second faction that opened fire on both them and the Borg indescriminately, or in Unity perhaps with a hint of the NumberSpecies war starting. In fact, that could have been the reason their cube was destroyed instead of the Nekrit bobbins. Opportunities were there...
I think if they'd show the new species targetting literally everyone they came across, that would have shown 8472 as a galactic level threat that would justify the alliance with the Borg. As is, it seems as if Voyager could have just waited on the edge of Borg space, let them get wiped out whilst building a stockpile of anti-8472 nano probes, and then scared them off afterwards with them as a weapon.
Another of those episodes where Janeway thinks the end justifies the means, no matter what the fecking means are. Especially if the means go against every single other opinion, especially when it's Chakotay who might as well not exist at this point. She values his opinion in the same way I value my cats opinion on the third bowl of catfood I've just offered him.
And the ego with which she dismisses his concerns! "Then I guess I am alone after all", but doesn't stop to consider the implications of why that's the case. Thing is, I kinda love the semi-unhinged Dark Side variant of Janeway. I've wanted to see how this whole thing is affecting her psychologically for a while (and things like just invading someone's space in The Swarm are good nods to it) so this is up my alley.
@@Unlimited_Lives She also has this tendency to call people who defend their own space "bullies". And what a pain it is to go around their space is, well semi-unhinged works.
@@Unlimited_Lives It's not a very discussed episode. It really caught my interest as a kid, though. I won't spoil it for ya here in case you move on to doing this series for TNG eventually. haha
0:53 This reminds of that Futurama episode Godfellas, where Bender is being shot out of a torpedo tube faster than their ship can go, while their ship is going at maximum speed. so they can't ever catch up to him. :) I'm not sure what kind of probes Voyager has, but TNG had rocket-powered probes that did not have warp capabilities. (The only exception I can recall is 'Dreadnaught' which was a Kardashian thing)
I looked into the (many...) different classes of Starfleet probes after this went up, and there's at least one capable of warp 8. But that still runs into the same problems as the Kazon overtaking them and setting a trap, and raises issues about dilithium usage too.
Oh man, that "skeletal lock" thing that B'Elana pulls out of her ass is one of those really annoying things that has somehow stuck with me through all the years. "It's something I just came up with," she said. At the very least, the absolute very least, they should have had her say, "It's something I've been working on for awhile." That wouldn't make it good, but it would at least be a bit less stupid.
@@joelellis7035 that would involve acknowledging the fact that the crew used to be Maquis and we can't have that until the episode when they get the news that the Dominion-Cardassian Alliance wiped them out during the Dominion War.
Expanded lore on Janeway says she lost her husband and father in an experiment gone wrong and she got sick of people telling her it was not her fault so she got promoted to captain just so that the next time something went wrong it would indeed be her fault, or at least her responsibility.
@@Unlimited_Lives That lore was written years after the show was already over. The reason backstories are not written in is because the person writing the episode of the week does not always have permission to make changes like that to a character. However, as shown with Bashir on DS9 it is very easy to add a back story to a character if they get permission, so it was simply a case of no one asking.
Okay, but in Janeway's defense, she was also going by the information given to her by Kes about 8472. It wasn't just getting through Borg space (though that was her primary goal), she genuinely believed that these unknown aliens would destroy them if given a chance. Of course, we find out later that what Kes was picking up from them psychically was just them being supremely ticked off at having their space invaded, but I digress.
It's a bit much isn't it? Makes you wonder what the limitations are, as that removes the need for any real ship-to-ship combat based on the range shown.
Nice, a LOTR and a Sliders reference in the first 30 seconds! And Pokémon, Babylon 5 and Captain Planet! The probe isn’t faster that Voyager. The probe just doesn’t stop to look at every atom it passes like Voyager does. If you don’t like the 47 thing, don’t look at the Image Enhancement at 2:06 Would deleting the Doctor really stop the Borg from being able to recover the info? They’re cyborgs, hacking tech should be their thing. Torres managed to undelete Tuvok’s Maquis takeover program and she couldn’t identify manure with a tricorder.
Visual 47 I don't have so much of an issue with. Those qualify as *actual* easter eggs because you have to put in the work. Putting it into dialogue is like saying "I will hide the word bum in this episode. Bum. Did you spot it?"
You'd think if they were teleporting onto a Borg fragment (whose life support is presumably compromised), they'd wear those full body suits we've seen before. Which, incidentally, might have saved Kim. Well, that would seem to be the smart thing to do, but when did Voyager do the smart thing?
I actually watched B5 for the first time back in 2019. It turne dout a lot better than I expected, except season 5. Ohh no one likes a meat ship getting in the way. Shame really we never got developemnt of this species. Although I'm happy we got a species that didn't look like humans iwth makeup so that's a plus, 90s CGI aside.
Properly alien aliens are certainly welcome. I think Bab5 holds up better than many sci-fi shows because it was designed for a slow burn. But yeah, season 5 was a bit all over the shop.
@@Unlimited_Lives Maybe you already know this, but season 5 both was and wasn't supposed to exist. The creator was told it would be a 5 season show, so that's how he mapped out the plot, but then at the beginning of season 4 was told that would be the last one, so he rushed to wrap everything up that season. Then, SURPRISE, you get a 5th season after all! That's why season 5 is so weird and disjointed compared to the rest of the show. Also why some plot elements (like whatever the fuck was up with Lyta and the Vorlons) never got wrapped up at all.
Specifically the 47 bit of it. Copied from elsewhere: It's a thing one of the writers (Joe Menosky) wedged into his scripts from TNG onwards because he went to a certain college and that college has a thing about the number 47. Other writers picked it up and parroted it throughout DS9 and Voyager. It's an entirely self-indulgent inclusion that adds no value. Imagine that episode of the Simpsons where Bart repeats "I didn't do it" for laughs, but with the scene where he knocks everything over first removed so you have no context for why it should be amusing.
I think it's telling that the Star Trek writers themsleves grew tired of 47 for the most part by DS9. That kind of ting works if it's one writer's signature, 1138 in Star Wars is okay since it's a reference to Lucas himself, but yeah when it was just one writer in Star Trek doing something from his background it's kinda cute but when it became a thing it gets old fast.
What always gets me is when they point to a map and say "We can't go along this bit / The other race holds this territory" Why does no other character put their hand up and say "Why don't we just go above or below it?" I always felt this alliance with the borg story line started with "We need to get Jeri Ryan standing in high heels and look cool / sexy as F while the camera moves down. How do we achieve this?" My thoughts regards the probe being two months ahead of them? They fired it off a in straight line, it's been doing its thing while the crew have farted around having adventures.
While I usually agree the whole "why don't we fly over it?" thing, I think they actually bring it up with the Borg and Krenim that "going around" would add an unreasonable amount of time to their journey. Also it can be assumed the borg territory is hella big in every direction.
@PTONPC I can help you answer that question, consider if you will the concept of distance, how far above or below would you need to travel before you could evade Borg Long range censors? now consider how big an area the Borg actually occupy, and now consider the fact that they also own bigger, faster, stronger ships with access to trans warp technology which humans barely understand, think about all that, and see if you can solve that riddle. If you're struggling over the concept of long range sensors, google RADAR and it's use in determining distance (range) of an object.
@@kyuven Good points, it would have been nice for them to have a discussion about it, weighing up the lost time against the risk. After all, it might add time to your journey but you can't get home if you're dead. "Why can't we go above them?" "Oh their territory extends X amount of light years up and down. It will take us Y number of years to go around."
@@ptonpc I thought really hard about making a comment on the difference between a corridors vs open space and how Sneaking by definition is a surreptitious act, but that would be leaning a little to heavily on my inner asshole, which you already suspect that I am. (I AM) but really, man you know i'm just messing with. I don't know shit about space travel. LOL!
Ah Sliders, that takes me back (I'm old enough at 38). Personally I thought the crew of voyager should have built a cloaking device. Even if it was still too risky to cross Borg space they might have tried hiding for a bit in the hope of being able to salvage usable borg tech/databases for transwarp. Failing that, wait long enough and the Borg could have been given the weapon after they had been pummeled to some small percentage of their original strength if the theory that 8472 was an existential threat to the galaxy still held credibility.
Whilst the cloaking idea is a good one, it might not be viable based on timeframe. The Federation did sort of have access to cloaking tech at the time (the Defiant was equipped with one a year before Voyager was lost), but it was under heavy Romulan scrutiny and strict treaties about its use. We may argue they could have used the personal cloak Paris nabbed in the episode Distant Origins, but it's reasonable to assume that was taken back by the Dino Sapiens before Voyager was released. Even if it wasn't, adapting it to full ship use may have been impossible or very difficult. On a tv-series level, giving the ship a cloaking device neuters most threats so we can't have it for plot reasons anyway. That said (and relating to your transwarp nicking idea too) it's disappointing we've not seen them scavenge and adapt more alien tech. I imagine that runs into the same continuity issues, but it'd have been a fun idea and thematically appropriate.
You can just hear the moralizing Janeway speech about how using a cloak would be against the spirit of the Federation: "We are out here to meet new races, not slip past them like a thief in the night." It does make sense though... You don't know who is out there and what their capabilities are. Maybe they can see right through the cloak, then what do you say? It's easier to convince folks you don't mean any harm when your approach can be spotted lightyears away. Also, wouldn't you think the Maquis would have jumped at the chance to use the cloaking device on their ships? I know the Klingons gifted a bunch of them to the Maquis as we'd learn on DS9's Blaze of Glory. But the Maquis stuck them on missiles. A fleet of cloaked Maquis raiders, now that would have been a challenge!
@@Unlimited_Lives - I agree with you regarding adapting alien tech. Given the resource limitations, alleged difficulties in building new photon torpedoes, and the Marquis crew having used cobbled together tech for asymmetric warfare rather extensively, the premise of the show almost seems to demands it. (I do think they mentioned salvaging components from that Dreadnought missile, but that went south :-) .) With regards the cloak, the Federation must presumably understand the science behind cloaking due to centuries of conflict and other interactions with major powers that possess it (leaving aside the phase cloak that Riker's old ship was involved with). But as you say, certain plots would be hard/impossible to do unless Voyager was routinely up against superior tech that wasn't always fooled by cloaking systems. Regards.
"By pulling an idea straight out of her ass", 😂. It's funny how the competence and effectiveness of Starfleet's personnel and technology fluctuates, depending on what the plot requires.
+1 for the Damien Hirst reference. Organic ships seem to have been code for advanced technology. Why the 90s? I wonder if the Human Genome Project and Dolly the Sheep had some to do with it, bringing biological engineering back into the popular consciousness. Also, Janeway's plan is sort of justifiable, though the episode doesn't manage to communicate that properly. S8472 have explicitly announced (for some reason) they want to go on a serial genocide spree, and seem to be entirely capable of doing so. In the circumstances, helping the Borg stop them really does seem like the lesser of two evils. Or, at least, the less capable of two evils. It's kind of a shame really that the episode didn't dig into this moral dilemma more deeply.
Ooh, good call on the genetics influences being a potential catalyst. I theorised in the video description that it may have been a desire to show off newly affordable CG tools, but your idea sounds like it could well have been a factor.
Another reviewer of this episode had an interesting take. Chaktoy adapts a much more Starfleet attitude, "we don't trade with the Borg just because it's convenient for us, they've killed and assimilated trillions, and it's against our principles to support them in any way." Whereas Janeway is much more Marquee, " I will do distaste, maybe horrible things, to survive one more day, because I am fighting for what is important to me, and I believe in this cause so much I will hold my nose and make this deal" It's a good episode, though sadly let down abit by the weak/inconsistent characterisation of Janeway that made the change in her stance seem more like bipolar disorder than a character arc. If voyager had made it clearer that each death under her command was eating away at her morals, and she would go just alittle more extreme each time, it could have been a major peak in a story arc. I will never get over how the writers choose this premise, choose to put this crew in this unique situation, but rarely wanted to actually explore the story space around that concept. It was full of potential for questions of how far ethics have to bend to survival, whether a military style hierarchy is justified outside of any oversight, a whole bunch of new and potentially interesting species, but voyager always seems to aim for rehashes of TNG style plots. This was different, it had big moral problems without clear answers and tension between the leading officers, it had action and tension, and was actually pretty good. It's just a pity voyager didn't have this as a standard.
I just said something similar in another comment about how the reversal of positions is an interesting idea. If there'd been a little bit more build up to it (we've really only had her willingness to trespass another species' space in The Swarm as a similar experience) then it would have been a believable. Either way I'll admit I rather like the idea of darkside Janeway.
@@Unlimited_Lives indeed, and there are some episodes that somewhat explore that. I think the core problem with voyager is the premise promotes alot of interesting but potentially dark stories/themes in(which the show Battlestar Galactica did explore), but the writers just didn't seem interested or willing or able (I don't know which) to do those stories. Hell, Voyager may as well have been on the edge of federation space for 90% of the episodes. I wonder what the show could have been if there was tension within the ship between Starfleet and Marquee, between Janeway and Chaktoy, if character arcs where available for all. Hell, the strangest possibility of all: Kim being promoted.
I think that, like it or not, 47 has become such an ancestral dumb meme within Star Trek that we will never be free of it. It’s a bit like the image of opponents of Batman getting bonked in the noggin/nuts to a 💥POW💥 or a 💥KABLAM💥 or a 💥I’M A SCATMAN, SKEE-BABABIDABOP, BADABIDABOP💥. I can appreciate it if it’s snuck into background elements, which does not include dialogue but hey if it’s on a computer display or door label somewhere I might chuckle just because of the nonsensical anti-humour humour of such a dumb meme (remember Admiral Pedant, you authorised me designating the USS Pedant’s registry as NCC-42069-A). ”Computer! Activate shark-repellant Bat-spray, authorisation Picard, Alpha-4-7-Tango! _Your move,_ time travelling Shark Queen! _[Breaks out a tactical Batusi dance]”_ - literal verbatim quote from Star Trek: First Contact I promise
Agreed. If it sits in the background and qualifies as an actual easter egg, I'm fine with it. When it's in dialogue for most episodes, it can balls. Clarification: I'm only the captain of the Pedant. Admirals outrank me, which is poor planning on my part but here we are.
Jayneway is a whole other level of captain compared to other series captain and she is willing to go to extremes, especially where self sacrifice is concerned but her morals about other things do vary depending if she is going to see the people affected or it's some theoretical impact that she can wash her hands of. As we see later on, multiple times, when she does get home and isn't happy with the result she is not above fucking up the entire timeline for a chance to do better. Also, I am Sliders old
Some of that can be attributed to writing inconsistency, but I personally like the choice to make her less that perfect. The most memorable line Sisko has in DS9 is him deleting a personal log after some real dodgy shit went down. Give me a little moral ambiguity and I'm a happy boy.
Fun fact: The popular RTS game Stellaris lifted one of the CGI shots of borg nanites for an icon related to its Synthesis story-arc and now millions of people think this is what a nanite would look like. 😂 .....It is not even close to what a nanite would actually look like, but shows just how many people watch Star Trek or play that freaking game.
I fell off Stellaris when Paradox started doing the standard Paradox thing of releasing double-figures DLC for it. But anyway... maybe part 2's Thought Experiment could be what you'd expect a nanite to look like.
I'm professor Arturo old and also old enough to remember a VHS copy of this episode showing up at my local video store during Christmas holiday 1997. The best gift ever. After First Contact, I was obsessed with the Borg. I watched Scorpion I so many times I can still remember the dialogue pretty much verbatim. As a young teenager, I thought Janeway negotiating with the Borg was the coolest thing ever... Ah, to be young and naive.
I'm with you on the Borg being a cool concept. And there's something about an enemy that'll kill you without any form of malice that makes it more menacing.
I tried looking up 47 and got a lot of different results. I guess I'm going to put my nerd cred on the line here and ask what this has to do with Star Trek?
Basically: nothing. It's a thing one of the writers (Joe Menosky) wedged into his scripts from TNG onwards because he went to a certain college and that college has a thing about the number 47. Other writers picked it up and parroted it throughout DS9 and Voyager. It's an entirely self-indulgent inclusion that adds no value. Imagine that episode of the Simpsons where Bart repeats "I didn't do it" for laughs, but with the scene where he knocks everything over first removed so you have no context for why it should be amusing. And yes, it's a personal bugbear of mine.
@@Unlimited_Lives I suppose, at least, it's unobtrusive enough that I didn't notice it, but for those who have an interest in numbers, I can see how it would grate.
Honestly I’m surprised Janeway didn’t face a mutiny here. This is like watching the Nazis fight the Russians, and you actively choose to make an alliance with the Nazis. They could have waited a bit, watching the Borg get retcked, while developing the nanoprobe weapon on their own, then take the Northwest passage. Species 8472 would have probably left them alone after one or two encounters with Voyager. After they get out on the other side they could have given the nano-probe weapon specs to every species they come across. Janeway condemns countless billions to death or assimilation with her recklessness! Ugh!
Copied from elsewhere: It's a thing one of the writers (Joe Menosky) wedged into his scripts from TNG onwards because he went to a certain college and that college has a thing about the number 47. Other writers picked it up and parroted it throughout DS9 and Voyager. It's an entirely self-indulgent inclusion that adds no value. Imagine that episode of the Simpsons where Bart repeats "I didn't do it" for laughs, but with the scene where he knocks everything over first removed so you have no context for why it should be amusing.
The beginning of the ruination of the Borg as a threatening enemy to the Federation. Voyager ruined their mystique and their frightening logical hive efficiency by giving them feelings and individuality; Seven of Nine is an individual right from the start, not a part of the collective. The Borg don't negotiate and they don't do deception. The Borg would never make an alliance. The Borg know best. They would assimilate without word, not parlay with an inferior species.
If they shot the probe out while at max warp, would the probe continue at faster than voyager speed since theres no friction via air molecules to slow the probe down? It seems like broken logic but logic a tv show would use none the less. 😂❤😂
🤦♀️ really...this is the direction there going. The borg should have destroyed voyager on sight, there got another data on SF to know there dangerous. But... must be worried about the new species ( I'm terrible with numbers) let's hope there get out of this one safe and sound as there always do 😒
TLDR: The number 47 appears throughout TNG, DS9, and Voyager. Longer version (copied from another comment): It's a thing one of the writers (Joe Menosky) wedged into his scripts from TNG onwards because he went to a certain college and that college has a thing about the number 47. Other writers picked it up and parroted it throughout DS9 and Voyager. It's an entirely self-indulgent inclusion that adds no value. Imagine that episode of the Simpsons where Bart repeats "I didn't do it" for laughs, but with the scene where he knocks everything over first removed so you have no context for why it should be amusing.
@@Unlimited_Lives I've been blissfully oblivious of this 'joke' my entire life. It feels kinda pathetic, like trying to ape Pixar, and their A113. There are some numerical gags in Futurama, but this feels strained beyond belief.
Not to Uno-Reverse, but the last episode of Sliders (4th Feb, 2000) was nearly 2 years before the release of Fellowship of the Ring (19th Dec, 2001). Interestingly, it looks like the UK got the last episode of Sliders on 29th Dec 1999, over a month before it was shown in the US. Curious for an American-produced show. Of course John Rhys-Davies left in '97 when it moved from Fox to Sci-Fi, so it's academic anyway.
Today's thought experiment: how does reaching the border of Borg space give them the knowledge of how vast it is?
I wondered this myself, when this episode aired. The Borg are nomadic, or at least that's how the Federation knew them at this point in history...they don't hold territory, they assimilate, consume, and move on... Hell, everything they do is on a ship of some sort.
To ensure the safety of their crews, the Intrepid class vessels are all fitted with incel scanners. Naturally, should you reach Borg space, that particular scanner’s lit up like a Christmas tree.
@@DissociatedWomenIncorporated Am I missing something? What do incels have to do with this? Am I genuinely missing something?
@@ExSpoonman I was just trying to think of a semi-logical fanon justification. I thought:
Cordrazine) what characteristic could the vast majority of Borg life forms on a planet share,
Inaprovaline) well the poor dears’ve probably never been laid since they got assimilated,
Ketracel White) OH MAN it’d be hilarious if Voyager had incel sensors. For crew safety!
Romulan Ale) don’t worry, this particular space frog of a joke apparently can’t be deactivated via dissection, and is actually kinda into it, rawr 🐸
Snakeleaf) Oh man, I just accidentally half described the Gorn as depicted in Strange New Worlds 🦖😱 hawny space frogs with disturbing kinks!
@@DissociatedWomenIncorporated 😂😂😂
What I really like about this two parter is that you get what was missing from this show. I kept expecting there to be conflict between the two leaders but it always felt like the writers were too afraid to have them disagree. But now you see them fracture and debate and there is that human drama and conflict that makes a story interesting.
See, that right there is what I'm talking about. Janeway going a bit darkside gives us fascinating opportunities to explore. And it's a fun reversal to see it from the Starfleet wunderkind instead of the actual terrorist.
I look forward to seeing how Chekov's screen, chekov's guns, chekov's boxy thing, and chekov's collection of now spotless game boy cartridges will save the day in part 2.
You jest, but I now genuinely want Chekov's Boxy Thing.
Sallah from "Indieanna Jones"!! Yay!!
I screamed at the Arturo reference, THATS MY BOYYYY
To be clear, I'm probably in the minority of people aged 18-25 that have seen sliders, Farscape, and other sci-fi of this era. I've always had a bit of an "old soul" and love stuff from that era as much as I love some modern entertainment. Sliders was a great show, till it wasn't. But when it was great, Arturo was a really good character. Miss that guy
Nothing wrong with revisiting the classics. The likes of Blake's 7 were before my time, but they're still worth a watch.
I must be REALLY old because Da Vinci is actually Sallah from Indiana Jones...
YES FINALLY THE FUN BEGINS!!!!!!!!!!
I have to admit that 70% of the reason I watch these now is for the spacedog bit at the end. 😂 Pedant or Arsehole, keep up these highly entertaining vids.
Space Dog: The Oddly Popular Pupper.
Omg, I love the adventures of space dog and shining dot. ❤
damn, i thought i was early. love the sliders reference
I finished this one ahead of schedule so patrons got it 24 hours early. That's not something I'm going to be doing regularly so don't worry.
0:48 Something to consider. The Probe could have a faster warp core. It's smaller. (I have heard) the energy needed to increase warp speed would have to factor in the Cube rule (or something like that). So a small probe might have all the power it needs to go faster. And since its small (and single purpose), it's structure integrity could be able to sustain high warp speed. (Just a thought.)
But you can also assume the probe is almost always at warp. Voyager drops out of warp to explore a lot (and do repairs without the aid of holographic workers. Or other automatic drones. But, I digress). So it's safe to assume the probe would be ahead of Voyager.
You sir are the master of sci fi references.
Gotta love the "Borgy and Kes" storyline shift in 3 episodes
Some extra sass and snark this evening... love it ;) Gotta keep 'em clean, in case the Borg want to borrow a copy... love it ;)
Yas! Scorpion finally! I love this one
A sliders reference, nice
Gotta get as much nerd in as possible.
@@Unlimited_Lives and even more with a mention of rhe Vorlons.
The Borg are lucky they didn't encounter the Vorlons, they would have curb stomped them even worse than Species 8472 did.
I understood that Sliders reference
Perhaps another show I should revisit...
I'm old enough to get both the Professor Arturo and Gimli reference LOL
We have people here old enough to call him Sallah from Indiana Jones, so don't worry about it.
@@Unlimited_Lives I know him as Sallah too lol
Calling isolinear chips Game Boy cartridges? _This_ is why I Patreon you 🤣 My copy of Pokémon Blue got stolen by chavs. I just hope you’re doing well out there, somewhere, my kidnapped Charizard (gone but never forgotten) ❤️
I lost a few NES games in a similar manner. My condolences.
Likely floating around out there somewhere with my shiny ursaring assuming that cartridge even functions nowdays
One problem is that I never felt that species 8472 was so great a threat that it would justify Janeway siding with the Borg. Like, they'll only attack the Borg. In fact, perhaps because of Janeway's involvement, 8472 now see the Federation as a target.
But what about "the weak shall perish"? Well, that's pretty much the motto of every stellar superpower in the Alpha Quadrant that isn't the Federation. And that, a telepathic message from an individual, is all we know of them. For what it could be, he is an extremist of his society.
This would have been fixed if they had shown us that the 8472 were so fanatical about destroying the Borg that they were willing to destroy other species to prevent them from assimilating them. Or that they don't have an understanding of mechanical technology and see it as an offense.
Just once showing the NumberSpecies as hostile to everything would've made it more of an "enemy of my enemy" thing. And we could have had it during Blood Fever with the species that got attacked mentioning a second faction that opened fire on both them and the Borg indescriminately, or in Unity perhaps with a hint of the NumberSpecies war starting. In fact, that could have been the reason their cube was destroyed instead of the Nekrit bobbins. Opportunities were there...
I think if they'd show the new species targetting literally everyone they came across, that would have shown 8472 as a galactic level threat that would justify the alliance with the Borg. As is, it seems as if Voyager could have just waited on the edge of Borg space, let them get wiped out whilst building a stockpile of anti-8472 nano probes, and then scared them off afterwards with them as a weapon.
Another of those episodes where Janeway thinks the end justifies the means, no matter what the fecking means are. Especially if the means go against every single other opinion, especially when it's Chakotay who might as well not exist at this point. She values his opinion in the same way I value my cats opinion on the third bowl of catfood I've just offered him.
And the ego with which she dismisses his concerns! "Then I guess I am alone after all", but doesn't stop to consider the implications of why that's the case.
Thing is, I kinda love the semi-unhinged Dark Side variant of Janeway. I've wanted to see how this whole thing is affecting her psychologically for a while (and things like just invading someone's space in The Swarm are good nods to it) so this is up my alley.
@@Unlimited_Lives She also has this tendency to call people who defend their own space "bullies". And what a pain it is to go around their space is, well semi-unhinged works.
@@Unlimited_Lives Yes, she's the imperfect captain in a terrible situation. Very human.
Don't forget the organic ship from TNG - Tin Man!
I confess I don't remember the episode. It's been a while for me with TNG too...
@@Unlimited_Lives It's not a very discussed episode. It really caught my interest as a kid, though. I won't spoil it for ya here in case you move on to doing this series for TNG eventually. haha
The very pilot episode of TNG had a (sort of) organic ship!
@@Wifenis Good point!
0:53 This reminds of that Futurama episode Godfellas, where Bender is being shot out of a torpedo tube faster than their ship can go, while their ship is going at maximum speed. so they can't ever catch up to him. :) I'm not sure what kind of probes Voyager has, but TNG had rocket-powered probes that did not have warp capabilities. (The only exception I can recall is 'Dreadnaught' which was a Kardashian thing)
I looked into the (many...) different classes of Starfleet probes after this went up, and there's at least one capable of warp 8. But that still runs into the same problems as the Kazon overtaking them and setting a trap, and raises issues about dilithium usage too.
For the real codgers it’s Sallah. 0:34
Yup, and I'm upset that I missed that one.
Gimli? You mean that chap from Raiders of the Lost Ark? 😉
Oh man, that "skeletal lock" thing that B'Elana pulls out of her ass is one of those really annoying things that has somehow stuck with me through all the years. "It's something I just came up with," she said. At the very least, the absolute very least, they should have had her say, "It's something I've been working on for awhile." That wouldn't make it good, but it would at least be a bit less stupid.
My thoughts entirely. Just "oh, this is a thing we can do now".
And they never use it again.
@@joelellis7035 yeah like “we didn’t use it because sometimes you just beam up a skeleton.”
@@joelellis7035 that would involve acknowledging the fact that the crew used to be Maquis and we can't have that until the episode when they get the news that the Dominion-Cardassian Alliance wiped them out during the Dominion War.
Expanded lore on Janeway says she lost her husband and father in an experiment gone wrong and she got sick of people telling her it was not her fault so she got promoted to captain just so that the next time something went wrong it would indeed be her fault, or at least her responsibility.
Why not put that in the show?!? Crawling through the vents with Neelix in Macrocosm would've been a good chance to explore her fear of failure.
@@Unlimited_Lives That lore was written years after the show was already over. The reason backstories are not written in is because the person writing the episode of the week does not always have permission to make changes like that to a character.
However, as shown with Bashir on DS9 it is very easy to add a back story to a character if they get permission, so it was simply a case of no one asking.
Hope you have Scorpion pt 2 posted somewhere.
It'll be along next Friday at 17:45 BST. Tuesday's video will be the Season 3 summary.
Okay, but in Janeway's defense, she was also going by the information given to her by Kes about 8472. It wasn't just getting through Borg space (though that was her primary goal), she genuinely believed that these unknown aliens would destroy them if given a chance. Of course, we find out later that what Kes was picking up from them psychically was just them being supremely ticked off at having their space invaded, but I digress.
He is obviously neither Gimli nor Prof Arturo, at least not before he visits Dune.
Yay!! We’re almost to the Seven of Nine episodes!!!
Option four would have been try to reach the Bajoran Wormhole. Of course never discussed in the show.
0:50 the probe is faster than the ship because the ship gets distracted so easily and they can't help but stop to pet every space dog they see!
No doulbe-reference for B5, when they have planet killers, too?
It does seem a bit OP, for less than a dozen of their ships....
It's a bit much isn't it? Makes you wonder what the limitations are, as that removes the need for any real ship-to-ship combat based on the range shown.
Nice, a LOTR and a Sliders reference in the first 30 seconds! And Pokémon, Babylon 5 and Captain Planet!
The probe isn’t faster that Voyager. The probe just doesn’t stop to look at every atom it passes like Voyager does.
If you don’t like the 47 thing, don’t look at the Image Enhancement at 2:06
Would deleting the Doctor really stop the Borg from being able to recover the info? They’re cyborgs, hacking tech should be their thing. Torres managed to undelete Tuvok’s Maquis takeover program and she couldn’t identify manure with a tricorder.
Visual 47 I don't have so much of an issue with. Those qualify as *actual* easter eggs because you have to put in the work. Putting it into dialogue is like saying "I will hide the word bum in this episode. Bum. Did you spot it?"
You'd think if they were teleporting onto a Borg fragment (whose life support is presumably compromised), they'd wear those full body suits we've seen before. Which, incidentally, might have saved Kim. Well, that would seem to be the smart thing to do, but when did Voyager do the smart thing?
Yup, and a similar argument was raised for the cube in Unity that'd been sitting in space for 6 years...
I actually watched B5 for the first time back in 2019. It turne dout a lot better than I expected, except season 5. Ohh no one likes a meat ship getting in the way. Shame really we never got developemnt of this species. Although I'm happy we got a species that didn't look like humans iwth makeup so that's a plus, 90s CGI aside.
Properly alien aliens are certainly welcome.
I think Bab5 holds up better than many sci-fi shows because it was designed for a slow burn. But yeah, season 5 was a bit all over the shop.
Star Trek Online gives them a bit of development, or at least a name that isn't a number designation: Undine.
They're still omnicidal dicks, though.
@@Unlimited_Lives Maybe you already know this, but season 5 both was and wasn't supposed to exist. The creator was told it would be a 5 season show, so that's how he mapped out the plot, but then at the beginning of season 4 was told that would be the last one, so he rushed to wrap everything up that season. Then, SURPRISE, you get a 5th season after all! That's why season 5 is so weird and disjointed compared to the rest of the show. Also why some plot elements (like whatever the fuck was up with Lyta and the Vorlons) never got wrapped up at all.
I don't understand the reference number 8472. Can someone explain it to me?
Specifically the 47 bit of it.
Copied from elsewhere: It's a thing one of the writers (Joe Menosky) wedged into his scripts from TNG onwards because he went to a certain college and that college has a thing about the number 47. Other writers picked it up and parroted it throughout DS9 and Voyager. It's an entirely self-indulgent inclusion that adds no value. Imagine that episode of the Simpsons where Bart repeats "I didn't do it" for laughs, but with the scene where he knocks everything over first removed so you have no context for why it should be amusing.
I think it's telling that the Star Trek writers themsleves grew tired of 47 for the most part by DS9. That kind of ting works if it's one writer's signature, 1138 in Star Wars is okay since it's a reference to Lucas himself, but yeah when it was just one writer in Star Trek doing something from his background it's kinda cute but when it became a thing it gets old fast.
What always gets me is when they point to a map and say "We can't go along this bit / The other race holds this territory" Why does no other character put their hand up and say "Why don't we just go above or below it?"
I always felt this alliance with the borg story line started with "We need to get Jeri Ryan standing in high heels and look cool / sexy as F while the camera moves down. How do we achieve this?"
My thoughts regards the probe being two months ahead of them? They fired it off a in straight line, it's been doing its thing while the crew have farted around having adventures.
While I usually agree the whole "why don't we fly over it?" thing, I think they actually bring it up with the Borg and Krenim that "going around" would add an unreasonable amount of time to their journey.
Also it can be assumed the borg territory is hella big in every direction.
@PTONPC I can help you answer that question, consider if you will the concept of distance, how far above or below would you need to travel before you could evade Borg Long range censors? now consider how big an area the Borg actually occupy, and now consider the fact that they also own bigger, faster, stronger ships with access to trans warp technology which humans barely understand, think about all that, and see if you can solve that riddle. If you're struggling over the concept of long range sensors, google RADAR and it's use in determining distance (range) of an object.
@@dellytancyl524 Your entire argument would also negate sneaking past or going through a corridor.
@@kyuven Good points, it would have been nice for them to have a discussion about it, weighing up the lost time against the risk. After all, it might add time to your journey but you can't get home if you're dead.
"Why can't we go above them?" "Oh their territory extends X amount of light years up and down. It will take us Y number of years to go around."
@@ptonpc I thought really hard about making a comment on the difference between a corridors vs open space and how Sneaking by definition is a surreptitious act, but that would be leaning a little to heavily on my inner asshole, which you already suspect that I am. (I AM) but really, man you know i'm just messing with. I don't know shit about space travel. LOL!
Ah Sliders, that takes me back (I'm old enough at 38).
Personally I thought the crew of voyager should have built a cloaking device. Even if it was still too risky to cross Borg space they might have tried hiding for a bit in the hope of being able to salvage usable borg tech/databases for transwarp. Failing that, wait long enough and the Borg could have been given the weapon after they had been pummeled to some small percentage of their original strength if the theory that 8472 was an existential threat to the galaxy still held credibility.
Whilst the cloaking idea is a good one, it might not be viable based on timeframe. The Federation did sort of have access to cloaking tech at the time (the Defiant was equipped with one a year before Voyager was lost), but it was under heavy Romulan scrutiny and strict treaties about its use. We may argue they could have used the personal cloak Paris nabbed in the episode Distant Origins, but it's reasonable to assume that was taken back by the Dino Sapiens before Voyager was released. Even if it wasn't, adapting it to full ship use may have been impossible or very difficult.
On a tv-series level, giving the ship a cloaking device neuters most threats so we can't have it for plot reasons anyway.
That said (and relating to your transwarp nicking idea too) it's disappointing we've not seen them scavenge and adapt more alien tech. I imagine that runs into the same continuity issues, but it'd have been a fun idea and thematically appropriate.
You can just hear the moralizing Janeway speech about how using a cloak would be against the spirit of the Federation: "We are out here to meet new races, not slip past them like a thief in the night."
It does make sense though... You don't know who is out there and what their capabilities are. Maybe they can see right through the cloak, then what do you say? It's easier to convince folks you don't mean any harm when your approach can be spotted lightyears away.
Also, wouldn't you think the Maquis would have jumped at the chance to use the cloaking device on their ships? I know the Klingons gifted a bunch of them to the Maquis as we'd learn on DS9's Blaze of Glory. But the Maquis stuck them on missiles. A fleet of cloaked Maquis raiders, now that would have been a challenge!
@@Unlimited_Lives - I agree with you regarding adapting alien tech. Given the resource limitations, alleged difficulties in building new photon torpedoes, and the Marquis crew having used cobbled together tech for asymmetric warfare rather extensively, the premise of the show almost seems to demands it.
(I do think they mentioned salvaging components from that Dreadnought missile, but that went south :-) .)
With regards the cloak, the Federation must presumably understand the science behind cloaking due to centuries of conflict and other interactions with major powers that possess it (leaving aside the phase cloak that Riker's old ship was involved with).
But as you say, certain plots would be hard/impossible to do unless Voyager was routinely up against superior tech that wasn't always fooled by cloaking systems.
Regards.
"By pulling an idea straight out of her ass", 😂. It's funny how the competence and effectiveness of Starfleet's personnel and technology fluctuates, depending on what the plot requires.
Really getting angry about the number 47
I feel the imminent arrival of she who puts the seven in 47 😏
Thanks for all your work 💪😊 these episodes are very enjoyable 😁👍you are appreciated 🎉
Thank you, and I appreciate the feedback. It helps to be reminded that people like them.
Damn, space dog... damn.
This is the response I wanted. Thank you.
+1 for the Damien Hirst reference.
Organic ships seem to have been code for advanced technology. Why the 90s? I wonder if the Human Genome Project and Dolly the Sheep had some to do with it, bringing biological engineering back into the popular consciousness.
Also, Janeway's plan is sort of justifiable, though the episode doesn't manage to communicate that properly. S8472 have explicitly announced (for some reason) they want to go on a serial genocide spree, and seem to be entirely capable of doing so. In the circumstances, helping the Borg stop them really does seem like the lesser of two evils. Or, at least, the less capable of two evils. It's kind of a shame really that the episode didn't dig into this moral dilemma more deeply.
Ooh, good call on the genetics influences being a potential catalyst. I theorised in the video description that it may have been a desire to show off newly affordable CG tools, but your idea sounds like it could well have been a factor.
Another reviewer of this episode had an interesting take. Chaktoy adapts a much more Starfleet attitude, "we don't trade with the Borg just because it's convenient for us, they've killed and assimilated trillions, and it's against our principles to support them in any way." Whereas Janeway is much more Marquee, " I will do distaste, maybe horrible things, to survive one more day, because I am fighting for what is important to me, and I believe in this cause so much I will hold my nose and make this deal"
It's a good episode, though sadly let down abit by the weak/inconsistent characterisation of Janeway that made the change in her stance seem more like bipolar disorder than a character arc.
If voyager had made it clearer that each death under her command was eating away at her morals, and she would go just alittle more extreme each time, it could have been a major peak in a story arc.
I will never get over how the writers choose this premise, choose to put this crew in this unique situation, but rarely wanted to actually explore the story space around that concept. It was full of potential for questions of how far ethics have to bend to survival, whether a military style hierarchy is justified outside of any oversight, a whole bunch of new and potentially interesting species, but voyager always seems to aim for rehashes of TNG style plots. This was different, it had big moral problems without clear answers and tension between the leading officers, it had action and tension, and was actually pretty good. It's just a pity voyager didn't have this as a standard.
I just said something similar in another comment about how the reversal of positions is an interesting idea. If there'd been a little bit more build up to it (we've really only had her willingness to trespass another species' space in The Swarm as a similar experience) then it would have been a believable. Either way I'll admit I rather like the idea of darkside Janeway.
@@Unlimited_Lives indeed, and there are some episodes that somewhat explore that.
I think the core problem with voyager is the premise promotes alot of interesting but potentially dark stories/themes in(which the show Battlestar Galactica did explore), but the writers just didn't seem interested or willing or able (I don't know which) to do those stories. Hell, Voyager may as well have been on the edge of federation space for 90% of the episodes.
I wonder what the show could have been if there was tension within the ship between Starfleet and Marquee, between Janeway and Chaktoy, if character arcs where available for all. Hell, the strangest possibility of all: Kim being promoted.
I think that, like it or not, 47 has become such an ancestral dumb meme within Star Trek that we will never be free of it. It’s a bit like the image of opponents of Batman getting bonked in the noggin/nuts to a 💥POW💥 or a 💥KABLAM💥 or a 💥I’M A SCATMAN, SKEE-BABABIDABOP, BADABIDABOP💥. I can appreciate it if it’s snuck into background elements, which does not include dialogue but hey if it’s on a computer display or door label somewhere I might chuckle just because of the nonsensical anti-humour humour of such a dumb meme (remember Admiral Pedant, you authorised me designating the USS Pedant’s registry as NCC-42069-A).
”Computer! Activate shark-repellant Bat-spray, authorisation Picard, Alpha-4-7-Tango! _Your move,_ time travelling Shark Queen! _[Breaks out a tactical Batusi dance]”_ - literal verbatim quote from Star Trek: First Contact I promise
Agreed. If it sits in the background and qualifies as an actual easter egg, I'm fine with it. When it's in dialogue for most episodes, it can balls.
Clarification: I'm only the captain of the Pedant. Admirals outrank me, which is poor planning on my part but here we are.
Jayneway is a whole other level of captain compared to other series captain and she is willing to go to extremes, especially where self sacrifice is concerned but her morals about other things do vary depending if she is going to see the people affected or it's some theoretical impact that she can wash her hands of.
As we see later on, multiple times, when she does get home and isn't happy with the result she is not above fucking up the entire timeline for a chance to do better.
Also, I am Sliders old
Some of that can be attributed to writing inconsistency, but I personally like the choice to make her less that perfect. The most memorable line Sisko has in DS9 is him deleting a personal log after some real dodgy shit went down. Give me a little moral ambiguity and I'm a happy boy.
If you’re of my generation, you’d recognize Galileo as Sallah from Raiders of the Lost Ark.
Chuckles 🤣🤣🤣🤣
"chock full of meat ships" ;)
I don't know what you're implying, just because they're filling the Borg's narrow corridor.
Fun fact: The popular RTS game Stellaris lifted one of the CGI shots of borg nanites for an icon related to its Synthesis story-arc and now millions of people think this is what a nanite would look like. 😂 .....It is not even close to what a nanite would actually look like, but shows just how many people watch Star Trek or play that freaking game.
I fell off Stellaris when Paradox started doing the standard Paradox thing of releasing double-figures DLC for it. But anyway... maybe part 2's Thought Experiment could be what you'd expect a nanite to look like.
@@Unlimited_Lives Stellaris was better when you weren't limited to hyperlanes...warp and gates were far more interesting.
I thought a bastard was a son whose claim to an inheritance was illegitimate… or am I mixing that up with something else?
Well I **thought** I'd found a definition that included fatherless rather than just born out of wedlock but I now can't seem to locate it again.
I'm professor Arturo old and also old enough to remember a VHS copy of this episode showing up at my local video store during Christmas holiday 1997. The best gift ever. After First Contact, I was obsessed with the Borg. I watched Scorpion I so many times I can still remember the dialogue pretty much verbatim. As a young teenager, I thought Janeway negotiating with the Borg was the coolest thing ever... Ah, to be young and naive.
I'm with you on the Borg being a cool concept. And there's something about an enemy that'll kill you without any form of malice that makes it more menacing.
LOTR or Sliders old? Damn it, I'm either Indiana Jones or Living Daylights old.
I have failed you all. **walks sadly into airlock**
@@Unlimited_Lives could be worse, someone could have said they were Wing Commander, Shogan or I Cladius old...
You are good lol
Cheers!
I tried looking up 47 and got a lot of different results. I guess I'm going to put my nerd cred on the line here and ask what this has to do with Star Trek?
Basically: nothing. It's a thing one of the writers (Joe Menosky) wedged into his scripts from TNG onwards because he went to a certain college and that college has a thing about the number 47. Other writers picked it up and parroted it throughout DS9 and Voyager. It's an entirely self-indulgent inclusion that adds no value. Imagine that episode of the Simpsons where Bart repeats "I didn't do it" for laughs, but with the scene where he knocks everything over first removed so you have no context for why it should be amusing.
And yes, it's a personal bugbear of mine.
@@Unlimited_Lives I suppose, at least, it's unobtrusive enough that I didn't notice it, but for those who have an interest in numbers, I can see how it would grate.
Honestly I’m surprised Janeway didn’t face a mutiny here. This is like watching the Nazis fight the Russians, and you actively choose to make an alliance with the Nazis. They could have waited a bit, watching the Borg get retcked, while developing the nanoprobe weapon on their own, then take the Northwest passage. Species 8472 would have probably left them alone after one or two encounters with Voyager. After they get out on the other side they could have given the nano-probe weapon specs to every species they come across. Janeway condemns countless billions to death or assimilation with her recklessness! Ugh!
Hystory of 47??
Copied from elsewhere: It's a thing one of the writers (Joe Menosky) wedged into his scripts from TNG onwards because he went to a certain college and that college has a thing about the number 47. Other writers picked it up and parroted it throughout DS9 and Voyager. It's an entirely self-indulgent inclusion that adds no value. Imagine that episode of the Simpsons where Bart repeats "I didn't do it" for laughs, but with the scene where he knocks everything over first removed so you have no context for why it should be amusing.
The beginning of the ruination of the Borg as a threatening enemy to the Federation. Voyager ruined their mystique and their frightening logical hive efficiency by giving them feelings and individuality; Seven of Nine is an individual right from the start, not a part of the collective. The Borg don't negotiate and they don't do deception. The Borg would never make an alliance. The Borg know best. They would assimilate without word, not parlay with an inferior species.
If they shot the probe out while at max warp, would the probe continue at faster than voyager speed since theres no friction via air molecules to slow the probe down?
It seems like broken logic but logic a tv show would use none the less. 😂❤😂
🤦♀️ really...this is the direction there going. The borg should have destroyed voyager on sight, there got another data on SF to know there dangerous. But... must be worried about the new species ( I'm terrible with numbers) let's hope there get out of this one safe and sound as there always do 😒
Wait, apparently I’m dumb. What’s the 47 thing? Google is no help.
TLDR: The number 47 appears throughout TNG, DS9, and Voyager.
Longer version (copied from another comment):
It's a thing one of the writers (Joe Menosky) wedged into his scripts from TNG onwards because he went to a certain college and that college has a thing about the number 47. Other writers picked it up and parroted it throughout DS9 and Voyager. It's an entirely self-indulgent inclusion that adds no value. Imagine that episode of the Simpsons where Bart repeats "I didn't do it" for laughs, but with the scene where he knocks everything over first removed so you have no context for why it should be amusing.
@@Unlimited_Lives thanks! Wild I never picked up on that
@@Unlimited_Lives I've been blissfully oblivious of this 'joke' my entire life. It feels kinda pathetic, like trying to ape Pixar, and their A113. There are some numerical gags in Futurama, but this feels strained beyond belief.
Is it plagiarism if writers copy themselves?
Nah.
He's Salah.
Imma keep it real I have no idea what the “47” reference is, I’ve never heard it discussed in Star Trek circles.
How many views has this guy gotten compared to the actual show?
Well I haven't checked my Nielsen rating, but it's probably a touch under the 5.6 million that this episode got when it aired in America.
Not to be pedantic, but Sliders was still putting out new episodes when LOTR came out.
Not to Uno-Reverse, but the last episode of Sliders (4th Feb, 2000) was nearly 2 years before the release of Fellowship of the Ring (19th Dec, 2001). Interestingly, it looks like the UK got the last episode of Sliders on 29th Dec 1999, over a month before it was shown in the US. Curious for an American-produced show.
Of course John Rhys-Davies left in '97 when it moved from Fox to Sci-Fi, so it's academic anyway.
@@Unlimited_Lives damn you are right. LOOLOLOL thnaks great videos
@@fallenhobbit6554 It's all good. To be fair, Sliders felt like it went on for a lot longer than it did. Thanks for watching!