They don't chuck their QBs in the fire. They let the next QB sit behind their current hall of famer for a few years. They really could do this forever if they wanted to.
@@Giantfanmisery I mean, it doesn't work as well if said rookie is sitting behind a career journeyman or a bridge. Sitting behind a HoFer is a much different deal. Also, the packers have done well scouting, but there is still the chance they draft a bust. Imagine if you get a QB, he sits for 3 years, and then he flops. There would be an absolute firestorm.
Still getting lucky... it's definitely a better formula. But it can't work out every time. Even mahomes sat. It's the way to go, but it's not foolproof.
Brunell, Hasselback, to a lesser extent as as QB, Pederson. Aaron Brooks and Matt Flynn got a shot but not much success as #1. Kurt Warner too but he was not a 53 man roster player while in GB.
It’s just like Ron Wolf trading a first round pick for Favre. Probably could have gotten him for less, but if you believe him to be the one, why take the risk that someone else steal him from you?
Well I can see why. They had their guy in Arron Rodgers and had plenty of other issues that could’ve been addressed with that pick instead of grabbing a qb that high in the draft
Perhaps they will sit nicely in the Packers Hall of Fame some day. Else, those draft day "Love Notes" could tote a minor bag of coin in a future fundraiser auction.
It helps that Green Bay is publicly owned so they aren't subject to the whims of an individual owner. So it makes it easier to withstand the fickle whims of fans and media over a 3 year period. If other teams were community owned they probably could do the long term planning that the Packers enjoy.
While GB is publicly owned, that specifically isn't what determines their internal structure. A private company, owned by one or more people, could be set up internally in the same manner that GB does, but like any other model of ownership there are tradeoffs that don't make it necessarily the ideal method. How many years was Rodgers stuck on the team that hardly ever filled out the roles he needed on the offense so he could win another Super Bowl? How many years does GB have to suffer under bad leadership before they get removed? There are benefits to GB's internal structures, but there are also very clear problems as well.
Most owners are 80 plus years old, they dont want a QB that will sit for years. They want to win now. Or take a coach on the hot seat, they gamble and want to win now. They couldnt care less what will be there in thre years time.
Dodgers GM Branch Rickey IIRC, "It's better to trade a guy a year early than a year late". The thing is, at some age the wheels fall off. When Love was drafted no one knew when Rodgers' wheels would fall off.
There's a bigger question to be asked in all of this: What is the best way to build an NFL roster? Go cheap and/or young at QB to have an extra 40+ million in cap space to construct a great team around him (49ers have done this well lately), or pay big at QB once you believe you have a great one to the detriment of the rest of the roster. Mahomes is amazing, but as his cap number has risen recently, the talent around him has declined dramatically. The Chargers aren't winning anytime soon, even with Herbert. The Eagles look like they're starting to decline without the money to pay important positions. I think this is why a lot of clubs throw their first round QBs out there the first year. If they hit, a la Stroud, you've got a championship four year window to look forward to because your QB isn't taking up a quarter of the team's salary cap. I think there is some downside in doing things the way the Packers have done them. It seems like they've missed out on those first few years (and possibly one or two more rings) where they're getting paid $1-2 million/yr instead of $40-50 million/yr.
@reintaler6355 do you realize how close the Packers were to getting one or two more? Yeah, I know it's hard, but it wouldn't have taken much more for a few of those 2010's Packers teams.
Like 99.9999% of Packer fans at the time, I didn’t like the pick when Love was drafted. But Gutey proved why he’s the GM and we’re just fans. Say what you want, but this franchise might be set for another 15 years. Even if we “only” win one ring during the Love era, that’s one more ring than at least half of the NFL. Ask Browns fans if they want a 45-year period of playoff contention and a few Superbowls sprinkled in.
Nothing but truth my friend. I always roll my eyes when people talk about how we only won 2 with Favre and Rodgers, I just think to myself but I got to see Green Bay win 2 superbowls in my life. Ask the rest of the NFC north if they would’ve like to see their teams just win 1.
@@nikofanene8317 Yeah. From 1992 to today, Green Bay has been in three Superbowls (winning 2), nine NFC championship games, and made the playoffs 23 times. Over that same span of time, in terms of making the playoffs: Bears (7), Lions (9), Vikings (16). For the other NFC teams, Seahawks (16), 49ers (16), Rams (10), Cardinals (6), Bucs (11), Saints (11), Panthers (8), Commanders (7), Eagles (19), Giants (11), Cowboys (17). By that measure, Green Bay is the most consistently successful regular-season team in the conference. In Superbowl appearances, Packers (2-1), Cowboys (3-0), Giants (2-1) , Eagles (1-2), Bears (0-1), Falcons (0-2), Panthers (0-2), Saints (1-0), Bucs (2-0), Cardinals (0-1), Rams (2-2), Seahawks (1-2), and 49ers (1-2). So, except for those 1992-1995 era Cowboys, the Packers have as many Superbowl wins as any other NFC team, and only the Rams have been there more often. So anyone complaining about "only" two championships in that time doesn't know what they're talking about. Only the '92-'93-'95 Cowboys have more from the NFC.
For real, Brady really made it seem like Superbowls were easy walk ins for a HOF QB, but they're not, any given sunday and 3-4 any given sundays to do it means one unlucky break and you're fucked. While 1 might be small for a HOF QB, they're only expected to get 2 or 3 if they're extremely lucky. 2 over this time is still much better than many fan bases get, and we still get to enjoy winning seasons almost every season.
then you dont understand the packers. simply said, packers dont wana have a ring. they want to be a top team. so they had luck with arod and his win of the sb. but they never risk anything or invest anything to get a sb. which means on the other hand they never have any chains from the past. so they are a top team and with alot of luck they get a ring. no 4 or 5 first round pick trades ever. so and now the jordan love problem. at the moment he is cheap. but in 2 years he wants his payday with 40-50 million dollars. and then your team will suffer. and if he has no great team around him. can he carry as rodgers ? and i dont see that yet. so have a great time till it lasts, but dont overhype him.
What they need to do is develop another Tom Clements. He is seventy years old. He can't coach forever. Hopefully, he is passing his wisdom on to a new generation of coaches in Green Bay.
This especially. Alongside Jordan Love, there *really* needs to be another Tom Clements. Someone who is able to say the right things to the QB and are able to see _tangible_ results (Kyler, Love) That's a much harder ask because that is an individual trait. There can't be another Tom Clements, but there has to be someone like him, in order to produce these kinds of QB results
He needs to be in the Packers Hall of Fame, even if he is "only" an assistant. Dude brought the best out of an aging Brett Favre, developed Rodgers into a Hall of Famer, and developed Jordan Love into a (as of right now) a superstar QB with a ceiling higher than Mount Everest. Dude's a guru.
The wealth of knowledge you have rivals and even sometimes exceeds the experts and talking heads. Your videos are informative and yet never boring. Great job, Tom!
Great take Tom, also huge thank you to Rodgers for not being like Favre, he helped Jordan a lot and kept him out of the drama with the front office, and has kept a good relationship with Love today.
Absolutely. Rodgers was mad that the Packers drafted Love-but he didn’t take that out on Love. He worked with him, helped him, and even when he was in New York, took heat off of Love by urging patience with and expressing faith in Love. This is a case where Rodgers shined.
It makes me so happy seeing Jordan Love’s performance this year. I went to Utah State at the same time as him and he almost single handedly helped us be ranked his sophomore year. Go Aggies!
Mark Brunell, Ty Detmer, Kurt Warner, Aaron Brooks, Matt Hasselbeck, & Doug Pederson (Super Bowl coach) came through GB. Meanwhile other teams struggle to draft one starter.
I'm giving Love another year before I say they've done it again, making sure he doesn't regress in his second year like so many others. But yes, drafting a QB to train behind an established and competent QB to replace them when they retire/move on is a move more teams should do.
I agree, kudos to the guy putting it together down the stretch but in close games he's had a knack of throwing back game ending interceptions (I.e Steelers, Broncos, Saints). If he can polish that part of his game the NFL community would be talking about Love just like the hard on they have for Mahomes.
I swear more teams need to adopt the Packers strategy: draft a QB when the team is _winning._ Even if it’s not behind a “great” QB, experiencing NFL success is invaluable. It’s so overlooked how few great QB prospects are selected by winning teams. After the Dallas game, J. Love still just looked focused. He looked like a winner.
@@K-kj5svBut then you give the rookie QB a taste of what it feels like losing at the NFL without being front and center. Learning how to roll with the punches is a pretty good experience
Excellent presentation Tom! It has become apparent by watching the game tapes of Jordan Love that he has steadily gained mastery of Matt LaFleur's gameplan strategies and is able to execute them at a very high level. Sure, he has a lot remaining to polish up, but where he stands now is night and day from where he initially started. He has all the attributes of a top-tier NFL quarterback in the making and his recent accomplishments are not just a fluke or a flash in the pan. Whether he will be recognized as a future superstar or not, only time will tell. However, as it stands now, Jordan Love has exceeded expectations by a wide margin and may very well be the third consecutive great Green Bay franchise quarterback. Go Pack Go.
You mention the equipment manager at 12:10, I've met him! Red Batty is such a nice guy and when I was talking to him it seemed he had a genuine passion for playing support on the team. He was pretty proud to show me game sideline photos where he's hauling gear in the background.
I know you only touched on this for a second towards the end, but I love that you touched on the Caleb Williams situation for Chicago in relation to your point about being patient with your draft picks. Some teams draft some positions better than others (Chicago does really well with linebackers and surprisingly well with running backs), but patience and coaching matter a lot more than people realize. That’s the difference in players being out of the league after one season and retiring after 10+ seasons.
Tom Clements was a starting QB for Notre Dame in the early 70's, and led them to a national championship in 73. I remember watching him play on TV, and had no idea what became of him.
Great, Tom! I Just think you've missed one point: "TRUST THE BOARD". Gutie Said afterwords that JLove was the last 1st round graded player on their BOARD, and they went for It. That also speaks about the GB scouting team. LFG!
Let's not get ahead of ourselves Tom. It was one win in a stadium The Packers plays good football. Now comes the big. Playing on Saturday night in the playoffs. Where the Packers don't play well on Saturday nights. Remember The Packers was very favorite to win at Lambeau. They came out & laid an egg. On a Saturday Night playoff game. Just saying .....................
What's funny is I actually said Love would fit with the Packers and how they like to play before the draft and Packers fans actually cried when he got drafted. Needed some work because he had a lot of Jameis Winston tendencies which did show up a couple of times earlier in the season but he's been solid enough for a first year starter.
Just like we seen shades of Favre in Rodgers we see shades of Rodgers in Love the torch has been passed once again .Packers will defeat the 49ers tommrow mark my words welcome to the Jordan Love ERA GOPACKGO💚💛💚💛💚
Except they didn't. The Packers will continue to fall to the 49ers until they learn how to build around an excellent QB. There's no reason they shouldn't have at least three rings with Aaron Rodgers, but they don't because they didn't build around him. Why do Brady, Montana and Bradshaw have a combined 15 championships? Because those teams built around them. The Packers make the playoffs every year because they're good but don't win it because they're not excellent.
Everyone was doubting him after Week 7/Week 8 but I knew you can't count him out yet he's only played 7 games and then he just continues to get better each week practically, all I can say is I love my quarterback
My faith wavered for a couple weeks. For a moment there he was looking like he was getting worse. Then after the bye I started seeing it. He made a few mistakes but the losses after the bye aren't on him. I was sold after the Vikings game.
@the6thpackbrewbuck 🤦♂️🤣Really? Listen... I said Love had a great last 6 or 7 games of the season... he had Kirk Cousins like numbers... good for him. But you fanboys build up your hope so quick only to be disappointed. I'm just saying... let's see a bigger sample size then 6 or 7 games before declaring him a superstar.
@@lakeozarkrei3767 It's been Week 9, and I'd like to see you're Kirk Cousins stretch that is this impressive, just an early hint, he doesn't have one. Anyways, knowing the Packers history at QB, is it a guarantee that Love is an all time great, no, but is he well on the right track especially considering this is his first year on an offense with a fair share of injuries, absolutely
I really remember this season how Anthony Richardson went from someone who throughout the draft process was a raw guy with loads of potential who'd do great if he sat for a year or at least the first month or two of a season and learned before stepping up to starter. Then basically as soon as he got drafted the hype started that he needed to start week 1 and lo and behold that's what happened. Now the injuries I guess aren't necessarily a time thing and he wasn't bad by any stretch for the Colts this year but I found it bonkers how the expectations pivoted so much around him just over an off-season to a position that was likely detrimental to him
A lot of Packers fans are going to be upset when they find out he’s not AR or Favre. He’s been playing well but don’t get out in front of your skis after just a few games.
I gotta say though. We're at this really interesting point with the Packers. If they lose tonight, few Packers fans will be heartbroken, because this wasn't supposed to happen this year. This was supposed to be a rebuilding year at best. So it feels like there isn't much pressure here. Love has proved himself, the entire offense and defense have proved themselves to all be solid for years to come. Relatively, there isn't the insane amount of pressure that most other teams in the playoffs are feeling right now. And yeah, that absolutely could play into legitimate success against the 49ers. Obviously nothing is guaranteed, but think about it...
Brett Favre drafted 33rd, Aaron Rodgers drafted 24th, Jordan Love drafted 26th. So they all had talent and upside, but weren't significant reaches. Some may argue Love was a reach, but not a big one. Then they all started their careers as a backup.
Side note unrelated to the video, but you look night and day better/ healthier here and now than those throwback clips. Its great to see you taking care of you
even though I agree with you on the reason behind the development of great players on the Packers (sitting behind other great players), I think It comes at the detriment of almost never having a Super Bowl team. Good and great teams yes, but not a team thats is necessary to win a superbowl nowadays. Unless we have a aligning of the stars like Rodgers’ first years, our great players will succed eachothers, but never play with eachother
Really I think this can’t be replicated with any other franchise. Gutenkunst was with the packers since the 90s. He had the advantage of witnessing first hand Farve Holmgren and wolf, then Sherman then Thompson, McArthy and Rodgers. Any other organization, no one would be able to work into the role for over 20 years and have all that awesome knowledge and history passed down. In essence he has the most complete first hand knowledge on how to build a winning team.
I feel that by not having a owner that is pushing to 'win now' is what gives the Packers the luxury or being able to be patient. I also feel that LaFleur is letting Love loose from earlier in the season, allowing him to make audibles and changes or just more freedom to play.
Tremendous analysis. An absolutely phenomenal summary of how things played out over the last few years. An argument could be made that the pick of Jordan Love is exactly what caused Rodgers to elevate his game those next MVP seasons - more of a difference than a rookie WR would have likely made.
god i wish when we still had big ben we drafted a first rounder with good pocket presence and a fast read time and just let him develope with ben while we still could afford to
I wouldn’t anoint him as a great QB just yet. He’s played well this year after a shaky start. If he follows up next year with a great season then I’d say he’s great.
We’ve seen 18 games… we can see what his tool set is, he’s played under the lights of Primetime against top opponents and he hasn’t faded so we’ve seen his mettle. Barring injury to himself or any of the young guys around him he’s going to continue to grow and refine. If you’re not a GB fan get outta here, if you are a GB fan then why not try enjoying this? Rodgers and the drama and negativity are gone, that toxic relationship is over
Totally fair and valid, but the fact he is clearly not a bust is already pretty damn insane. I think he has proven at worst he will be a starting QB in the NFL.
@@sputnikalgrim why you getting upset over a simple post? He's right, labeling Love "great" is a bit premature at the moment. He's played well, far better than what others have predicted. There has been cases of QBs who looked great at first, only to regress .
3 years is longer than you would want your QB to sit - even if they're good you only get them on the cheap or 2 years (in fact really only 1 year, because we're going to need to sign him again in 2024). But afterwards we are all very wise. After all, In one timeline, Rodgers tore his achilles before leaving for the Jets. I also wonder if Covid impacted the decision, and they didn't want to draft a QB in 2021 who hadn't done much in college (and Trevor Lawrence was never an option). if so, then looking at how the 2021 and 2022 classes have done, they had a point.
Kinda crazy to think how lucky we got with Favre and Rodgers. Favre was a former back up to the falcons that we just took a swing on and happened to be a home run. Rodgers was the potential Number 1 pick, but instead that pick went to Alex Smith, and he somehow fell ALL the way down to 24th overall, and was just way to good off a player to pass up. I can definitely see in hindsight why Gute wanted to trade up for love. We struck gold almost purely on luck the first two times, so why not keep doing what’s been working?
Honestly at this point the packers have cracked the code on getting consistent great QBs and the rest of the league should take note which is why I was so happy when Hendon Hooker feel the lions in the third he’s gonna be great after sitting behind Goff for a few years
I appreciate that you don’t ignore/deny your initial reaction. Hard because it’s your most popular video, but it’s amazing how many people try. That’s why people trust your opinion.
I think it was one of the greatest hell Marry picks like Aron Rodger’s him self. And it worked out a turn around that quick with a team and now looking like you’ll have a guy to build around to get two or three super bowls as a raiders fan this is something I dream of.
By waiting until your QB is ready, your QB has the chance to make good habits using their full toolset rather than bad habits with their limited toolset. It's easier to make good habits than to break bad ones.
Jordan Love is a bigger, stronger and more athletic version of Aaron Rodgers. Love has a quiet confidence and swagger that is appreciated by his teammates. He is the same age as most of his receivers and they have bonded together. And Matt LaFluer and Tom Clements are the perfect coaches for Love’s talents. The future is very bright. In 2024, we can add 5 top 100 players and a few quality Free Agents.
Same. I wanted a wide receiver or a stud defender. We were 1 play away from a super bowl and either of those might have been enough to get us over the hump. Instead we had a bench player. I was wrong. Love was probably worth taking that chance.
Hi Tom. I am a long time member and rarely comment. But I must say this was done with excellence as you always do. Your videos keep getting better and are always of the highest quality. But as former History and Social Studies myself, and now teacher in alternative spiritual studies, you missed one big thing, Tom: Matt LaFleur. Matt LaFleur has been a perfect coach at the exact right time for JLove. He’s a teacher by nature and Love responds well to that. Perhaps Clements and La Fleur provide that important “father figure“ for Jordan given his father’s tragic ending at such a young age. Nevertheless, thanks again, Tom, for your outstanding videos. Tip of the cap and cheers to Rachel and Johnny Barks, too. I know you don’t do it alone. 💚💛😎👍💪 Go Pack go!!!
And the same people that were singing a different tune then, are acting like they couldn't be singing yet another tune next year after defenses work in "wrinkles" against Love.
As a Packers fan I think he still can, there is plenty of time to salvage that situation (he’s under contract until 2025 w/ 5th year option). The first move is to go find the best position coach you can to work with him over the off-season, with the tape he has he’s ahead of where love was by year 3. Next is to get this guy *OUT* of the spotlight, have him practice (with the 2s) and be on the roster, but DO NOT let him play. Get a veteran backup to fill that role (my suggestion, How about Kurt Benkert?), someone who you aren’t as invested in in the case he crashes and burns. Now that he has that year out of the sun, you can bring him back around, don’t give him a ton of exposure, but have him around. Now you let him suit up and take over as a backup if possible and get ready to cut ties with Rodgers if enough progress is made. Try to negotiate a cheap 6th year before you even start (1 it’s job security for him, he will take it and be thankful for it. Also shows your faith in the guy). Now you have ample time to build a roster and an identity for the team for him to just hop in and lead.
how to create infinite elite QBs, packers edition: - draft a promising prospect - let him sit and learn behind your current elite QB for a couple years - use Tom Clemens to help your rookie QB to improve and become elite -repeat now all GB needs to do to keep this process working forever is learn how to create infinite Tom clemens
My favorite part of this week has been seeing how many different fanbases are distraught by Jordan live and the Packers. Either because the Packers are a common opponent, or because they cheer for a franchise that has had a lot of quarterback issues, and the Packers seemingly never do, making them go, what are we doing wrong? Winning provides clarity
I consider the final years of Rodger's career in Green Bay as rebuilding years. Even hidden rebuild years because everyone expected them to draft to win the super bowl that year not draft and develop promising players for a future of many years of quality play.
They don't chuck their QBs in the fire. They let the next QB sit behind their current hall of famer for a few years. They really could do this forever if they wanted to.
Might as well if it ain't broke don't fix it
You forgot the bring in Tom Clements to coach them part of the Green Bay QB cycle.
I don’t understand why the rest of the nfl doesn’t do this
@@Giantfanmisery I mean, it doesn't work as well if said rookie is sitting behind a career journeyman or a bridge. Sitting behind a HoFer is a much different deal. Also, the packers have done well scouting, but there is still the chance they draft a bust. Imagine if you get a QB, he sits for 3 years, and then he flops. There would be an absolute firestorm.
Still getting lucky... it's definitely a better formula. But it can't work out every time. Even mahomes sat. It's the way to go, but it's not foolproof.
Legendary Packers GM Ron Wolf said it best as well: "Draft quarterbacks when you don’t necessarily need one."
beat me to it.
How many backups in Green Bay went on to have success with others teams since Wolf came in? A lot it seems.
Brunell, Hasselback, to a lesser extent as as QB, Pederson. Aaron Brooks and Matt Flynn got a shot but not much success as #1.
Kurt Warner too but he was not a 53 man roster player while in GB.
I was doing cartwheels when they drafted Love! I was trying to talk all my pro football talk homies off the the cliff but that was a losing battle 😂
@@kurtwicklund8901Ty Detmer as well.
“Please, God … not Jordan Love” - Tom Grossi right before Jordan Love was drafted
To be fair I don't think many people saw Jordan love as worth the pick to begin with.
He was right to feel that way at the time
@@Denozo88 he wasn't at the time they didn't "get" another HOF QB they developed another good/great QB.
It’s just like Ron Wolf trading a first round pick for Favre. Probably could have gotten him for less, but if you believe him to be the one, why take the risk that someone else steal him from you?
Well I can see why. They had their guy in Arron Rodgers and had plenty of other issues that could’ve been addressed with that pick instead of grabbing a qb that high in the draft
We need to archive all of Tom Grossi's notes for history
Perhaps they will sit nicely in the Packers Hall of Fame some day. Else, those draft day "Love Notes" could tote a minor bag of coin in a future fundraiser auction.
It helps that Green Bay is publicly owned so they aren't subject to the whims of an individual owner. So it makes it easier to withstand the fickle whims of fans and media over a 3 year period. If other teams were community owned they probably could do the long term planning that the Packers enjoy.
The ownership set-up was also their bane at one time. The board sticking their noses in.
@@mpetersen6 fixed when Bob Harlan came in.
@@zaphoddog3878
Yes indeed.
While GB is publicly owned, that specifically isn't what determines their internal structure. A private company, owned by one or more people, could be set up internally in the same manner that GB does, but like any other model of ownership there are tradeoffs that don't make it necessarily the ideal method. How many years was Rodgers stuck on the team that hardly ever filled out the roles he needed on the offense so he could win another Super Bowl? How many years does GB have to suffer under bad leadership before they get removed? There are benefits to GB's internal structures, but there are also very clear problems as well.
Most owners are 80 plus years old, they dont want a QB that will sit for years. They want to win now. Or take a coach on the hot seat, they gamble and want to win now. They couldnt care less what will be there in thre years time.
With drafts and trades, it's always better to be a year early rather than a year late. Well done, Green Bay.
Dodgers GM Branch Rickey IIRC, "It's better to trade a guy a year early than a year late".
The thing is, at some age the wheels fall off. When Love was drafted no one knew when Rodgers' wheels would fall off.
The way Rodgers looked in his last year in Green Bay. I’d say GB was early and that gave Love more time to develop.
There's a bigger question to be asked in all of this: What is the best way to build an NFL roster? Go cheap and/or young at QB to have an extra 40+ million in cap space to construct a great team around him (49ers have done this well lately), or pay big at QB once you believe you have a great one to the detriment of the rest of the roster. Mahomes is amazing, but as his cap number has risen recently, the talent around him has declined dramatically. The Chargers aren't winning anytime soon, even with Herbert. The Eagles look like they're starting to decline without the money to pay important positions. I think this is why a lot of clubs throw their first round QBs out there the first year. If they hit, a la Stroud, you've got a championship four year window to look forward to because your QB isn't taking up a quarter of the team's salary cap. I think there is some downside in doing things the way the Packers have done them. It seems like they've missed out on those first few years (and possibly one or two more rings) where they're getting paid $1-2 million/yr instead of $40-50 million/yr.
@@p.johnson1 ''one or two rings''? You know how hard it is to even just win one, especially as Packers recent history has shown
@reintaler6355 do you realize how close the Packers were to getting one or two more? Yeah, I know it's hard, but it wouldn't have taken much more for a few of those 2010's Packers teams.
People from Canada also know Tom Clements as a hall of fame QB in the CFL with the Winnipeg Blue Bombers during his playing career in the 80s
And a Grey Cup for Ottawa in 1976.
as a bears fan I hate this, but I also have to appreciate how good the packers are at developing qbs
GB is the #1 QB team over the course of NFL history.
Chucking QBs into the deep end of a fire pit is always 50/50.
Look at Herbert back in week 2 in 2020.
Don't worry brother, he just surprised people this year, next year teams are gonna game plan around him like crazy. 🐻🔽
@@cmd_bantha_fodder4616how they gonna plan all his receivers are his #1 target, plus he has 2 tight ends to throw too and he can use his legs as well
Being from Milwaukee,I have grown up the Bears kicking ou😅 ass
Like 99.9999% of Packer fans at the time, I didn’t like the pick when Love was drafted. But Gutey proved why he’s the GM and we’re just fans.
Say what you want, but this franchise might be set for another 15 years. Even if we “only” win one ring during the Love era, that’s one more ring than at least half of the NFL. Ask Browns fans if they want a 45-year period of playoff contention and a few Superbowls sprinkled in.
100%
Nothing but truth my friend. I always roll my eyes when people talk about how we only won 2 with Favre and Rodgers, I just think to myself but I got to see Green Bay win 2 superbowls in my life. Ask the rest of the NFC north if they would’ve like to see their teams just win 1.
@@nikofanene8317 Yeah. From 1992 to today, Green Bay has been in three Superbowls (winning 2), nine NFC championship games, and made the playoffs 23 times.
Over that same span of time, in terms of making the playoffs: Bears (7), Lions (9), Vikings (16). For the other NFC teams, Seahawks (16), 49ers (16), Rams (10), Cardinals (6), Bucs (11), Saints (11), Panthers (8), Commanders (7), Eagles (19), Giants (11), Cowboys (17). By that measure, Green Bay is the most consistently successful regular-season team in the conference.
In Superbowl appearances, Packers (2-1), Cowboys (3-0), Giants (2-1) , Eagles (1-2), Bears (0-1), Falcons (0-2), Panthers (0-2), Saints (1-0), Bucs (2-0), Cardinals (0-1), Rams (2-2), Seahawks (1-2), and 49ers (1-2). So, except for those 1992-1995 era Cowboys, the Packers have as many Superbowl wins as any other NFC team, and only the Rams have been there more often.
So anyone complaining about "only" two championships in that time doesn't know what they're talking about. Only the '92-'93-'95 Cowboys have more from the NFC.
For real, Brady really made it seem like Superbowls were easy walk ins for a HOF QB, but they're not, any given sunday and 3-4 any given sundays to do it means one unlucky break and you're fucked. While 1 might be small for a HOF QB, they're only expected to get 2 or 3 if they're extremely lucky. 2 over this time is still much better than many fan bases get, and we still get to enjoy winning seasons almost every season.
then you dont understand the packers. simply said, packers dont wana have a ring. they want to be a top team. so they had luck with arod and his win of the sb. but they never risk anything or invest anything to get a sb. which means on the other hand they never have any chains from the past. so they are a top team and with alot of luck they get a ring. no 4 or 5 first round pick trades ever. so and now the jordan love problem. at the moment he is cheap. but in 2 years he wants his payday with 40-50 million dollars. and then your team will suffer. and if he has no great team around him. can he carry as rodgers ? and i dont see that yet. so have a great time till it lasts, but dont overhype him.
What they need to do is develop another Tom Clements. He is seventy years old. He can't coach forever. Hopefully, he is passing his wisdom on to a new generation of coaches in Green Bay.
This especially. Alongside Jordan Love, there *really* needs to be another Tom Clements. Someone who is able to say the right things to the QB and are able to see _tangible_ results (Kyler, Love)
That's a much harder ask because that is an individual trait. There can't be another Tom Clements, but there has to be someone like him, in order to produce these kinds of QB results
Anybody got a cloning machine??
He will be harvested by our new AI overlords.
He needs to be in the Packers Hall of Fame, even if he is "only" an assistant. Dude brought the best out of an aging Brett Favre, developed Rodgers into a Hall of Famer, and developed Jordan Love into a (as of right now) a superstar QB with a ceiling higher than Mount Everest. Dude's a guru.
Sean Mannion
They’re great at scouting and most importantly developing a qb properly
Linebackers too!
@@Bsquaredplus2linebackers? What linebackers have they exceeded expectations on through draft and develop?
I think he means edge rushers @@Matt-yq3gq
@@Matt-yq3gqmaybe some linebackers but more edge rushers i dunno
@@Matt-yq3gqprobably thinking offensive line
The wealth of knowledge you have rivals and even sometimes exceeds the experts and talking heads. Your videos are informative and yet never boring. Great job, Tom!
Three Cheers to this and for Tom
Couldn’t have said it better, well said.
Great take Tom, also huge thank you to Rodgers for not being like Favre, he helped Jordan a lot and kept him out of the drama with the front office, and has kept a good relationship with Love today.
Absolutely. Rodgers was mad that the Packers drafted Love-but he didn’t take that out on Love. He worked with him, helped him, and even when he was in New York, took heat off of Love by urging patience with and expressing faith in Love. This is a case where Rodgers shined.
To be fair favre is a piece of feces
It makes me so happy seeing Jordan Love’s performance this year. I went to Utah State at the same time as him and he almost single handedly helped us be ranked his sophomore year. Go Aggies!
Mark Brunell, Ty Detmer, Kurt Warner, Aaron Brooks, Matt Hasselbeck, & Doug Pederson (Super Bowl coach) came through GB. Meanwhile other teams struggle to draft one starter.
And ol' Matt Flynn too. Though Warner is kinda a technicality. He was just an UFA on the practice squad for awhile wasn't it?
@@kurtwicklund8901 After not being drafted in 1994, Warner was signed by GB. He was cut by GB, however.
Jordan Love is a leader and that whole locker room is the epitome of a team. So proud of this team as a long time packer fan.
I'm giving Love another year before I say they've done it again, making sure he doesn't regress in his second year like so many others. But yes, drafting a QB to train behind an established and competent QB to replace them when they retire/move on is a move more teams should do.
I agree, kudos to the guy putting it together down the stretch but in close games he's had a knack of throwing back game ending interceptions (I.e Steelers, Broncos, Saints). If he can polish that part of his game the NFL community would be talking about Love just like the hard on they have for Mahomes.
If GB didn’t do this the Jets wouldn’t get their supply of quarterbacks.
Packer fandom certainly teaches planning and patience. Whether we Love it at the time or not.
Lol "Love it at the time" seriously though it's a great thing that the packers do
I swear more teams need to adopt the Packers strategy: draft a QB when the team is _winning._ Even if it’s not behind a “great” QB, experiencing NFL success is invaluable. It’s so overlooked how few great QB prospects are selected by winning teams.
After the Dallas game, J. Love still just looked focused. He looked like a winner.
@@K-kj5svBut then you give the rookie QB a taste of what it feels like losing at the NFL without being front and center. Learning how to roll with the punches is a pretty good experience
Teams assume they can get a mahomes or stroud day 1 when half the time they ruin their success for jumping the gun for them to be first string.
actually. most of the time**
Just giving a guy one year to learn the building, the staff, the media people, learn the playbook, one year to fit in is pretty huge.
I would have loved to have tom as a teacher regardless of the notes 😂
Tom Clemmens is like Jeff Stoudland for the Eagles Oline coach. He just knows the best way to develop his players.
Excellent presentation Tom! It has become apparent by watching the game tapes of Jordan Love that he has steadily gained mastery of Matt LaFleur's gameplan strategies and is able to execute them at a very high level. Sure, he has a lot remaining to polish up, but where he stands now is night and day from where he initially started. He has all the attributes of a top-tier NFL quarterback in the making and his recent accomplishments are not just a fluke or a flash in the pan. Whether he will be recognized as a future superstar or not, only time will tell. However, as it stands now, Jordan Love has exceeded expectations by a wide margin and may very well be the third consecutive great Green Bay franchise quarterback. Go Pack Go.
Tom Clements is a great point. I think position coaches get overlooked a lot by fans on how good a player is.
You mention the equipment manager at 12:10, I've met him! Red Batty is such a nice guy and when I was talking to him it seemed he had a genuine passion for playing support on the team. He was pretty proud to show me game sideline photos where he's hauling gear in the background.
Rest of the NFC North fans screaming "pure luck!!"
When the Packers traded up to get Jordan Love I was horrified but now im like they did the right thing
They usually do
You and everyone else
I know you only touched on this for a second towards the end, but I love that you touched on the Caleb Williams situation for Chicago in relation to your point about being patient with your draft picks. Some teams draft some positions better than others (Chicago does really well with linebackers and surprisingly well with running backs), but patience and coaching matter a lot more than people realize. That’s the difference in players being out of the league after one season and retiring after 10+ seasons.
Tom Clements was a starting QB for Notre Dame in the early 70's, and led them to a national championship in 73. I remember watching him play on TV, and had no idea what became of him.
Tears of excitement. Thanks Tom.
Ted Thompson always said you can’t fix last year with the draft. You fix 3 years down the road.
Great, Tom! I Just think you've missed one point: "TRUST THE BOARD". Gutie Said afterwords that JLove was the last 1st round graded player on their BOARD, and they went for It. That also speaks about the GB scouting team. LFG!
Let's not get ahead of ourselves Tom. It was one win in a stadium The Packers plays good football. Now comes the big. Playing on Saturday night in the playoffs. Where the Packers don't play well on Saturday nights. Remember The Packers was very favorite to win at Lambeau. They came out & laid an egg. On a Saturday Night playoff game.
Just saying .....................
Rashan Gary’s story is what being a Packer and the Packer way means. I love that man, and am so happy he wears the Green n Yellow.
The scouting team really deserve some props as well
What's funny is I actually said Love would fit with the Packers and how they like to play before the draft and Packers fans actually cried when he got drafted. Needed some work because he had a lot of Jameis Winston tendencies which did show up a couple of times earlier in the season but he's been solid enough for a first year starter.
Stay the course, trust the front office, we have a good one. Thats what i kept saying when jordan was drafted, hopfully we do this for a long time
I like how the Packers and Bears are complete opposites in QBs and the outcomes show it
I think is still way too early for anyone to compare him to Rodgers and Farve but we’ll see that the future holds for love.
@rcstudio3935 even if he's just an above average QB it's still better than the Bears have done in my lifetime.
Just like we seen shades of Favre in Rodgers we see shades of Rodgers in Love the torch has been passed once again .Packers will defeat the 49ers tommrow mark my words welcome to the Jordan Love ERA GOPACKGO💚💛💚💛💚
Except they didn't. The Packers will continue to fall to the 49ers until they learn how to build around an excellent QB. There's no reason they shouldn't have at least three rings with Aaron Rodgers, but they don't because they didn't build around him. Why do Brady, Montana and Bradshaw have a combined 15 championships? Because those teams built around them. The Packers make the playoffs every year because they're good but don't win it because they're not excellent.
That shot at the bears was uncalled for and I loved it
I always love these analysis videos, they’re one of my favorite types of videos you make
Everyone was doubting him after Week 7/Week 8 but I knew you can't count him out yet he's only played 7 games and then he just continues to get better each week practically, all I can say is I love my quarterback
My faith wavered for a couple weeks. For a moment there he was looking like he was getting worse. Then after the bye I started seeing it. He made a few mistakes but the losses after the bye aren't on him. I was sold after the Vikings game.
😂And what happens when he goes back to playing like Week 5 Jordan Love?
@@lakeozarkrei3767 Bro, can't you just appreciate greatness when it occurs
@the6thpackbrewbuck 🤦♂️🤣Really? Listen... I said Love had a great last 6 or 7 games of the season... he had Kirk Cousins like numbers... good for him. But you fanboys build up your hope so quick only to be disappointed. I'm just saying... let's see a bigger sample size then 6 or 7 games before declaring him a superstar.
@@lakeozarkrei3767 It's been Week 9, and I'd like to see you're Kirk Cousins stretch that is this impressive, just an early hint, he doesn't have one. Anyways, knowing the Packers history at QB, is it a guarantee that Love is an all time great, no, but is he well on the right track especially considering this is his first year on an offense with a fair share of injuries, absolutely
I really remember this season how Anthony Richardson went from someone who throughout the draft process was a raw guy with loads of potential who'd do great if he sat for a year or at least the first month or two of a season and learned before stepping up to starter. Then basically as soon as he got drafted the hype started that he needed to start week 1 and lo and behold that's what happened. Now the injuries I guess aren't necessarily a time thing and he wasn't bad by any stretch for the Colts this year but I found it bonkers how the expectations pivoted so much around him just over an off-season to a position that was likely detrimental to him
excellent video - good luck to your packers i havent seen much of them this year but they looked amazing against dallas
As a jets fan Denzel mims needed to progress because he didn’t get a lot of playing time
They can't keep getting away with it...
I’ll be dead when they don’t
I was glad they drafted Love. They did need a good quarterback
A young qb learning from a master for a few years is always smart. Most teams, including mine,(Broncos) dont seem to understand that strategy.
A lot of Packers fans are going to be upset when they find out he’s not AR or Favre. He’s been playing well but don’t get out in front of your skis after just a few games.
I gotta say though. We're at this really interesting point with the Packers. If they lose tonight, few Packers fans will be heartbroken, because this wasn't supposed to happen this year. This was supposed to be a rebuilding year at best. So it feels like there isn't much pressure here. Love has proved himself, the entire offense and defense have proved themselves to all be solid for years to come. Relatively, there isn't the insane amount of pressure that most other teams in the playoffs are feeling right now. And yeah, that absolutely could play into legitimate success against the 49ers. Obviously nothing is guaranteed, but think about it...
Waaaaaay too early to think Love is anywhere near that level.
I'm so excited for this upcoming draft. With all of the capital we have this team can make a frightening leap forward.
Yeah a leap from winning at making past at least the wildcard round in the playoffs. That's really scary for opposing teams
Brett Favre drafted 33rd, Aaron Rodgers drafted 24th, Jordan Love drafted 26th. So they all had talent and upside, but weren't significant reaches. Some may argue Love was a reach, but not a big one. Then they all started their careers as a backup.
I knew he was gonna be great when his NFL combine comparison was blake bortles.
Side note unrelated to the video, but you look night and day better/ healthier here and now than those throwback clips. Its great to see you taking care of you
even though I agree with you on the reason behind the development of great players on the Packers (sitting behind other great players), I think It comes at the detriment of almost never having a Super Bowl team. Good and great teams yes, but not a team thats is necessary to win a superbowl nowadays. Unless we have a aligning of the stars like Rodgers’ first years, our great players will succed eachothers, but never play with eachother
The Bears are talking to Kliff Kingsbury because they're looking at Veronica Bielik
"Who do you hope has a good game in the Divisional round?"
Niners Fans: "Please God, not Jordan Love"
I'll wait for another year to think this. Seen too many one and dones. He is amazing right now, lets hope he keeps it up.
i always said the worst picks of the 2020 draft were: 2nd rd: AJ dillon, 3rd: Josiah Deguara. rodgers needed wrs
The little jab you threw at Bears fans around the 15 minute mark was frickin frackin hilarious! 😆
Really I think this can’t be replicated with any other franchise. Gutenkunst was with the packers since the 90s. He had the advantage of witnessing first hand Farve Holmgren and wolf, then Sherman then Thompson, McArthy and Rodgers. Any other organization, no one would be able to work into the role for over 20 years and have all that awesome knowledge and history passed down. In essence he has the most complete first hand knowledge on how to build a winning team.
I feel that by not having a owner that is pushing to 'win now' is what gives the Packers the luxury or being able to be patient. I also feel that LaFleur is letting Love loose from earlier in the season, allowing him to make audibles and changes or just more freedom to play.
Tremendous analysis. An absolutely phenomenal summary of how things played out over the last few years. An argument could be made that the pick of Jordan Love is exactly what caused Rodgers to elevate his game those next MVP seasons - more of a difference than a rookie WR would have likely made.
god i wish when we still had big ben we drafted a first rounder with good pocket presence and a fast read time and just let him develope with ben while we still could afford to
I wouldn’t anoint him as a great QB just yet. He’s played well this year after a shaky start. If he follows up next year with a great season then I’d say he’s great.
Now there is significant tape and the massive regression/implosion defenses had against him won’t be around.
We’ve seen 18 games… we can see what his tool set is, he’s played under the lights of Primetime against top opponents and he hasn’t faded so we’ve seen his mettle. Barring injury to himself or any of the young guys around him he’s going to continue to grow and refine. If you’re not a GB fan get outta here, if you are a GB fan then why not try enjoying this? Rodgers and the drama and negativity are gone, that toxic relationship is over
Totally fair and valid, but the fact he is clearly not a bust is already pretty damn insane. I think he has proven at worst he will be a starting QB in the NFL.
@@sputnikalgrim why you getting upset over a simple post? He's right, labeling Love "great" is a bit premature at the moment. He's played well, far better than what others have predicted. There has been cases of QBs who looked great at first, only to regress .
@@BraeAllinupset? Why are you gaslighting? English isn’t difficult.
I hope Tom Clements stays around to get a SB with JLove
Well, if Jordan Love follows the same path as Farve and Rodgers, then please set aside your first round picks in 15 years jets.
3 years is longer than you would want your QB to sit - even if they're good you only get them on the cheap or 2 years (in fact really only 1 year, because we're going to need to sign him again in 2024). But afterwards we are all very wise. After all, In one timeline, Rodgers tore his achilles before leaving for the Jets.
I also wonder if Covid impacted the decision, and they didn't want to draft a QB in 2021 who hadn't done much in college (and Trevor Lawrence was never an option). if so, then looking at how the 2021 and 2022 classes have done, they had a point.
I think its the Mark Brunell history. He sat and was awesome. So, they saw the formula
Mahomes did the same thing with Smith. If he went to the bears and started first year he'd never be who he is rn
I was one of the fans reacting to the Rodgers pick about the same way you did for Love for about the same reasons
Kinda crazy to think how lucky we got with Favre and Rodgers. Favre was a former back up to the falcons that we just took a swing on and happened to be a home run. Rodgers was the potential Number 1 pick, but instead that pick went to Alex Smith, and he somehow fell ALL the way down to 24th overall, and was just way to good off a player to pass up. I can definitely see in hindsight why Gute wanted to trade up for love. We struck gold almost purely on luck the first two times, so why not keep doing what’s been working?
Honestly at this point the packers have cracked the code on getting consistent great QBs and the rest of the league should take note which is why I was so happy when Hendon Hooker feel the lions in the third he’s gonna be great after sitting behind Goff for a few years
I appreciate that you don’t ignore/deny your initial reaction. Hard because it’s your most popular video, but it’s amazing how many people try. That’s why people trust your opinion.
thank you thank you thank you for beating the cowboys mr.grossi!!!! - a giants fan
Speaking as a fellow Tom myself, I have to say... Toms are awesome.
I'd wait until Love's second year before the parade. Sophomore Slumps are a thing.
true but most sophmore slumps come from rookies that way over perform from expectations.
I think you saw a smooth learning curve here
@@Gopherzookathats what I saw. He grew over the year not hit a ceiling then plateau or regress.
@@Gopherzooka Alright, that I'll grant you. I just think it's too early to call him a Franchise QB is all.
I think it was one of the greatest hell Marry picks like Aron Rodger’s him self. And it worked out a turn around that quick with a team and now looking like you’ll have a guy to build around to get two or three super bowls as a raiders fan this is something I dream of.
By waiting until your QB is ready, your QB has the chance to make good habits using their full toolset rather than bad habits with their limited toolset.
It's easier to make good habits than to break bad ones.
It's almost like taking the approach of developing a player and getting them pro ready before tossing them in is a good idea
it really makes you say, 'what if?' when thinking about some of the prior high draft busts qbs
Watched the draft in a covid lockdown hospital...had my doubts. Now glad to have Love.
Jordan Love is a bigger, stronger and more athletic version of Aaron Rodgers. Love has a quiet confidence and swagger that is appreciated by his teammates. He is the same age as most of his receivers and they have bonded together. And Matt LaFluer and Tom Clements are the perfect coaches for Love’s talents. The future is very bright. In 2024, we can add 5 top 100 players and a few quality Free Agents.
Long way from hating gutey for not giving rodgers weapons...SO GLAD WE WERE WRONG!
..PS love u dallas ❤
Tom! Jordan love really went off! Wishin ya luck against the 9ers!
They did it by pissing off both their QB and their fans, then asking for forgiveness later.
I for one have had to eat crow on the Love situation.
Same. I wanted a wide receiver or a stud defender. We were 1 play away from a super bowl and either of those might have been enough to get us over the hump. Instead we had a bench player. I was wrong. Love was probably worth taking that chance.
You can't like this video enough 👏🏻
Hi Tom. I am a long time member and rarely comment. But I must say this was done with excellence as you always do. Your videos keep getting better and are always of the highest quality.
But as former History and Social Studies myself, and now teacher in alternative spiritual studies, you missed one big thing, Tom: Matt LaFleur. Matt LaFleur has been a perfect coach at the exact right time for JLove. He’s a teacher by nature and Love responds well to that. Perhaps Clements and La Fleur provide that important “father figure“ for Jordan given his father’s tragic ending at such a young age.
Nevertheless, thanks again, Tom, for your outstanding videos.
Tip of the cap and cheers to Rachel and Johnny Barks, too. I know you don’t do it alone. 💚💛😎👍💪
Go Pack go!!!
I love how J. Love completely turned the narrative around him with this incredible run.
And the same people that were singing a different tune then, are acting like they couldn't be singing yet another tune next year after defenses work in "wrinkles" against Love.
feels like a minute since we got one of these type of these vids, love it!!!. also love that sweater
Imagine if Zach Wilson got this development. Just another way to make myself sad as a Jets fan I suppose.
As a Packers fan I think he still can, there is plenty of time to salvage that situation (he’s under contract until 2025 w/ 5th year option). The first move is to go find the best position coach you can to work with him over the off-season, with the tape he has he’s ahead of where love was by year 3. Next is to get this guy *OUT* of the spotlight, have him practice (with the 2s) and be on the roster, but DO NOT let him play. Get a veteran backup to fill that role (my suggestion, How about Kurt Benkert?), someone who you aren’t as invested in in the case he crashes and burns.
Now that he has that year out of the sun, you can bring him back around, don’t give him a ton of exposure, but have him around. Now you let him suit up and take over as a backup if possible and get ready to cut ties with Rodgers if enough progress is made. Try to negotiate a cheap 6th year before you even start (1 it’s job security for him, he will take it and be thankful for it. Also shows your faith in the guy). Now you have ample time to build a roster and an identity for the team for him to just hop in and lead.
how to create infinite elite QBs, packers edition:
- draft a promising prospect
- let him sit and learn behind your current elite QB for a couple years
- use Tom Clemens to help your rookie QB to improve and become elite
-repeat
now all GB needs to do to keep this process working forever is learn how to create infinite Tom clemens
From Favre on the packers drafted, developed, and many traded for picks. They’ve had a real good system for decades.
My favorite part of this week has been seeing how many different fanbases are distraught by Jordan live and the Packers. Either because the Packers are a common opponent, or because they cheer for a franchise that has had a lot of quarterback issues, and the Packers seemingly never do, making them go, what are we doing wrong?
Winning provides clarity
All the credit and praise to Love for showing the Packers organization that he can ball with the best of them
I consider the final years of Rodger's career in Green Bay as rebuilding years. Even hidden rebuild years because everyone expected them to draft to win the super bowl that year not draft and develop promising players for a future of many years of quality play.
I remember when I Subscribed to you. It was the month you quit being a Teacher because i was shocked that you were a teacher 😂😂😂. GoPackGo❤
This was so well done.