I use Dunlop NTEK on track , i use a tyre pen and mark each heat cycle/day on the sidewall after every track day so i at a glance I can see how many cycles each tyre has on it.
I bought a bike with 10 year old super corsas. To my eye, they looked fine, felt nice and tacky to touch after a session on the track, but to ride on they were absolutely lethal. I took the advice of fella in my garage that you needed to work them harder to warm them up. so I pushed harder and slid through clearways on my arse lol. I say push harder, around the point my knee hit the ground the rear kept losing traction, it was quite impressive how awful they were in hindsight. Other than how they felt to ride on, and they had blued up a bit, and maybe the date stamp, there really wasn't much to tell me they were knackered!
I really like your videos. Great perspective and tend to be right on the money as far as my experiences! Your very articulate and clear! Keep up the great work!
Great video! I've done lots of miles and a few track days on a set of Supercorsas. I'm amazed at how well they have lasted, and I put it down to being easy on the throttle and having a bike that has less than 100hp😂
Oh well, where do i start. First of all, great video. Even amongst experienced track riders there is a lot of confusion and bad practices. I have used brand new tyres and takeoffs and had good days with both. I also did a full trackday with a Pirelli Superbike with no wear indicators on the RHS on a RHS track and i was fine and no harm was done (i am not too fast though) . I also used 4 year old and 50% SC0 in high heat and they worked amazing giving me plenty of condifence. So yeah, doubt that a tyre will just give up all of a sudden but surely you want to have fresh rubber whenever possible. If you have two sets of wheels, bring both and fit different compounds to them so you can adjust to the conditions of the day. Wrong pressures and wrong compound will surely lead to premature death.
Thanks for the free book as well, you ll get bigger no worries about that. Keept that quality Dan. We would be pleased to see more of you on the track ;)
This is one of your best Dan. Good advice based on real world experience. Covered everything really for the track day rider. Well except to warn owners not to be a tight-ass on their tyres. I've heard many a rider say 'oh, that will last one more trackday...'...then down the road a session or two later. I just tend to find the less experienced riders don't have the discipline to slow down when grip has diminished.
Great content . One more item . My sv650 came with brand new pilot power ct. I did 5 track days and in cooler condition there was a drop in grip and some slip. I learned about date stamps and realized the tire was 9 yr old. Put some new Q3 plus and what a change in grip level. Only one track day but I am still getting used to the change. The stamp is on the tire .
Bimo Raharjo Heat cycles are pretty much a myth these days. Tread depth is probably the most important factor. Ive ran aRound 4 track days/ 5 sessions on DOT tyres including 2 years of road use, approx 2000kms. 2 years of prepping the bike for replacing my current track bike. tyres are 4 years since manufacturer and a month ago I was within 9secs of our national lap record. Needless to say one side if the tyres are smooth and will be replaced now. Blue/Purple on tyres are oils coming to the surface, check if youre not overheating the tyre with too low pressures. Ive had blue on tyres after a 2nd session. Adjusted and and went on to do 2 more track days.. Just focus on correct pressure(too low doesnt mean more grip, will overheat and give you less) and tread depth.
About the heat cycles; is it possible to 'over-cook' a tyre? I remember cases where I had run my tire at too low a pressure for the temperatures that day and therefore it overheated. After cooling down there was blueish-haze on the surface. I was told the rubber had now changed properties because of the extreme overheating and should not be used again, or at least with great care. Is there any truth to this?
Great video Dan, but would the tearing seen at e.g. 1:59 make you change the tyre? Or is that ok? Will it disappear with another session at correct tyre pressure? (I ask because my tyre looks exactly like that!)
Tearing doesn't mean to throw the tyre away right away, it just means you're using the rubber faster as it tears so it'll wear out quicker. It could be pressure related but it could be suspension too. If it's a continuous band of tearing then it's more likely pressure/temperature related.
Depending on how hard or fast you ride... those heat cycles are definitely an issue. When racing I could definitely feel a “drop” in grip after a few really hot sessions followed by the tyres cooling down completely. However, you’re right. People panic a bit too much... grip slowly gets less vs just suddenly not being there :)
D.B. You are correct about working one way round for tread patterns and water dispersal however this doesn’t necessarily apply in the dry, I have used Pirelli slicks & treads, Bridgestone slick & treads, Dunlop treads, Metzeler treads all flipped no problem in the dry. I did wonder about the mythical de-lamination however after speaking with a tyre tech he dispelled that, it’s a personal choice, everyone makes there own mind up but I hate to throw a tyre away after a couple sessions when 75% of it is still pukka !
Yes, I've ridden many road miles on track chewed dunlop gp212s and 213 with virtually zero grip issues(don't forget to re-adjust pressures though). You ride a lot slower on road than on track. That said, as was mentioned in the video, consideration of application is needed with regards to road surface conditions and obviously weather factors. You also need to take into account that to be legal for road use in the UK tread depth needs to be a minimum of 1mm across 75% of the tread pattern and the rest needs to be at least visible, meaning if you have mullered the last half inch of tread closest to the outer edge into oblivion, the coppers will probably read you the riot act, at best, before sending you on your way, at worst it's 3 points and a fine for each defective tyre. So basically, as long as you can see the original tread pattern you should be ok.
After low-siding back to back on my Dunlop Q4s i can definitely say I’ve lost all confidence in them, but I honestly think it was me and not the tire, either way I have a trackday this weekend and im just gonna go ahead and fork out the extra dosh for slicks, i really want to run Metzeler slicks but there’s no tire vendor offering them at any track near me. I find it strange though, I managed a second place finish on this set of Q4s, yet right after that I low sided twice in a row, its taken a toll on my confidence (and my wallet lol), hoping i can get back to where i was with a fresh set of rubber. Thanks for the vids man I can’t begin to explain how much of a help this channel has been to me.
kornboy22 ya I actually started using tire warmers after the first low-side because i know for a fact the first one was because of cold tires, the second one i had though i noticed the tire didn’t seem to give me any feedback that i was losing it and it just went. I honestly think it was my fault though because my bike was very unsettled going into the corner when I started to lean over, that’s when i lost it, I should’ve just ran it wide.
@@whiteboiwyatt Yea I started using tire warmers after a cold tire crash also. I used to run Q3's until I had a high side on my R6 but now use pirelli SC1 front and SC2 rear. The Q3 was quite worn though. I learnt the hard way to get the best tires you can and better to put new rubber on sooner rather than later. Tires are expensive but crashing your bike and hurting your body is worse.
How fast are you? IE how far off your class record pace are you? As racers we know Slicks are more difficult to heat up and keep heat, Q4s and DOTs generally warm up quicker. If youre not sure why you crashed, then it cannot only be tyres. If your confidence is shot in the corner you crashed and you dont know the reason, you might end up crashing again, which you did and still dont know the reason. We had an issue with a low side where after extensive analysis found the exhaust touched on right turns at full lean, flexed and pushed against the rear master cylinder engaging the rear brake... Tyres are always the easiest to change... And blame
What if you have a track tire that's been used for 2 sessions, then left for almost a year and developed a hard "shell" should I throw them out? Or can I still use them?
If there is still 1mm or more tread depth, having a oil sheen (shiny coloured pattern) or dull old looking rubber on the surface is not a problem. All you have to do it take it easy for a lap or 2 (being very conscious of significantly reduced grip levels) and fresh rubber will be exposed. Once the top layer is worn off, they will be completely fine. Alternatively, use a very course file to remove the top layer of rubber before use.
I'd agree with the comments above. I wouldn't even say a tyre will develop a hard shell in that time, unless we're talking about different extremes here. It needs a good few years before tyres seriously degrade, from my understanding.
i wont change tyres till i see the threads in them, just slow the pace down a bit when they start moving BUT I WILL NEVER, let me repeat, NEVER, put used tyres on my bike
I use Dunlop NTEK on track , i use a tyre pen and mark each heat cycle/day on the sidewall after every track day so i at a glance I can see how many cycles each tyre has on it.
Dan, this is so helpful!! Thanks man
You’re videos are superb quality man! Life at Lean is also a great channel name 🤙🏼
Thank you Quinn 😊
I bought a bike with 10 year old super corsas. To my eye, they looked fine, felt nice and tacky to touch after a session on the track, but to ride on they were absolutely lethal. I took the advice of fella in my garage that you needed to work them harder to warm them up. so I pushed harder and slid through clearways on my arse lol. I say push harder, around the point my knee hit the ground the rear kept losing traction, it was quite impressive how awful they were in hindsight. Other than how they felt to ride on, and they had blued up a bit, and maybe the date stamp, there really wasn't much to tell me they were knackered!
I really like your videos. Great perspective and tend to be right on the money as far as my experiences! Your very articulate and clear! Keep up the great work!
Great video! I've done lots of miles and a few track days on a set of Supercorsas. I'm amazed at how well they have lasted, and I put it down to being easy on the throttle and having a bike that has less than 100hp😂
Oh well, where do i start. First of all, great video. Even amongst experienced track riders there is a lot of confusion and bad practices. I have used brand new tyres and takeoffs and had good days with both. I also did a full trackday with a Pirelli Superbike with no wear indicators on the RHS on a RHS track and i was fine and no harm was done (i am not too fast though) . I also used 4 year old and 50% SC0 in high heat and they worked amazing giving me plenty of condifence. So yeah, doubt that a tyre will just give up all of a sudden but surely you want to have fresh rubber whenever possible. If you have two sets of wheels, bring both and fit different compounds to them so you can adjust to the conditions of the day. Wrong pressures and wrong compound will surely lead to premature death.
Thanks for the free book as well, you ll get bigger no worries about that. Keept that quality Dan. We would be pleased to see more of you on the track ;)
This is one of your best Dan. Good advice based on real world experience. Covered everything really for the track day rider. Well except to warn owners not to be a tight-ass on their tyres. I've heard many a rider say 'oh, that will last one more trackday...'...then down the road a session or two later. I just tend to find the less experienced riders don't have the discipline to slow down when grip has diminished.
Top work Dan! really useful!
Great content . One more item . My sv650 came with brand new pilot power ct. I did 5 track days and in cooler condition there was a drop in grip and some slip. I learned about date stamps and realized the tire was 9 yr old. Put some new Q3 plus and what a change in grip level. Only one track day but I am still getting used to the change. The stamp is on the tire .
Factory bikes can also be released with sub standard versions of the tyre, even with the same brand and model name
Great video! Thank you!
Great video. Super helpful.
Wow your video blowing my mind. At least i know the "heat cycle" is almost just a myth among rider.
Bimo Raharjo Heat cycles are pretty much a myth these days. Tread depth is probably the most important factor.
Ive ran aRound 4 track days/ 5 sessions on DOT tyres including 2 years of road use, approx 2000kms. 2 years of prepping the bike for replacing my current track bike.
tyres are 4 years since manufacturer and a month ago I was within 9secs of our national lap record.
Needless to say one side if the tyres are smooth and will be replaced now. Blue/Purple on tyres are oils coming to the surface, check if youre not overheating the tyre with too low pressures. Ive had blue on tyres after a 2nd session. Adjusted and and went on to do 2 more track days..
Just focus on correct pressure(too low doesnt mean more grip, will overheat and give you less) and tread depth.
I love this video.
About the heat cycles; is it possible to 'over-cook' a tyre? I remember cases where I had run my tire at too low a pressure for the temperatures that day and therefore it overheated. After cooling down there was blueish-haze on the surface. I was told the rubber had now changed properties because of the extreme overheating and should not be used again, or at least with great care. Is there any truth to this?
You are the best!
Great video Dan, but would the tearing seen at e.g. 1:59 make you change the tyre? Or is that ok? Will it disappear with another session at correct tyre pressure? (I ask because my tyre looks exactly like that!)
Tearing doesn't mean to throw the tyre away right away, it just means you're using the rubber faster as it tears so it'll wear out quicker. It could be pressure related but it could be suspension too. If it's a continuous band of tearing then it's more likely pressure/temperature related.
That looks like a cold tear which likely means the carcass wasn't hot enough. Look at tyre pesurres to solve an issue like that.
Depending on how hard or fast you ride... those heat cycles are definitely an issue. When racing I could definitely feel a “drop” in grip after a few really hot sessions followed by the tyres cooling down completely.
However, you’re right. People panic a bit too much... grip slowly gets less vs just suddenly not being there :)
Could it just have been the temperature rising that caused them to get a bit squirmy? Just curious.
Very nice video! What pressure would you use on a 20-25celcius trackday for a pirelli diablo rosso corsa 2 and what on a 10-15celcius yrack day?
Great video
You didn’t mention flipping the tyres? A lot of us do it if the track is heavily biased one side, no loss of grip in the dry
S K some tyres only work “1 way” around, so be careful of this.
D.B. You are correct about working one way round for tread patterns and water dispersal however this doesn’t necessarily apply in the dry, I have used Pirelli slicks & treads, Bridgestone slick & treads, Dunlop treads, Metzeler treads all flipped no problem in the dry. I did wonder about the mythical de-lamination however after speaking with a tyre tech he dispelled that, it’s a personal choice, everyone makes there own mind up but I hate to throw a tyre away after a couple sessions when 75% of it is still pukka !
It's a bit of a taboo subject for some people, so it's not really a recommendation I would want to make. I'm inclined to agree with you though.
Should I use a 200/55 or a 200/60?
i am interested in a vedio with subtitles
Is it safe to take to the road on the tyres you just used to go around brands hatch for the day they are a bit chewed up thanks
Yes, I've ridden many road miles on track chewed dunlop gp212s and 213 with virtually zero grip issues(don't forget to re-adjust pressures though). You ride a lot slower on road than on track. That said, as was mentioned in the video, consideration of application is needed with regards to road surface conditions and obviously weather factors. You also need to take into account that to be legal for road use in the UK tread depth needs to be a minimum of 1mm across 75% of the tread pattern and the rest needs to be at least visible, meaning if you have mullered the last half inch of tread closest to the outer edge into oblivion, the coppers will probably read you the riot act, at best, before sending you on your way, at worst it's 3 points and a fine for each defective tyre. So basically, as long as you can see the original tread pattern you should be ok.
After low-siding back to back on my Dunlop Q4s i can definitely say I’ve lost all confidence in them, but I honestly think it was me and not the tire, either way I have a trackday this weekend and im just gonna go ahead and fork out the extra dosh for slicks, i really want to run Metzeler slicks but there’s no tire vendor offering them at any track near me.
I find it strange though, I managed a second place finish on this set of Q4s, yet right after that I low sided twice in a row, its taken a toll on my confidence (and my wallet lol), hoping i can get back to where i was with a fresh set of rubber. Thanks for the vids man I can’t begin to explain how much of a help this channel has been to me.
Do you use tire warmers? If not this will help eliminate cold tire crashes and you can set tire pressures on the warmers so will be more precise
kornboy22 ya I actually started using tire warmers after the first low-side because i know for a fact the first one was because of cold tires, the second one i had though i noticed the tire didn’t seem to give me any feedback that i was losing it and it just went. I honestly think it was my fault though because my bike was very unsettled going into the corner when I started to lean over, that’s when i lost it, I should’ve just ran it wide.
@@whiteboiwyatt Yea I started using tire warmers after a cold tire crash also. I used to run Q3's until I had a high side on my R6 but now use pirelli SC1 front and SC2 rear. The Q3 was quite worn though. I learnt the hard way to get the best tires you can and better to put new rubber on sooner rather than later. Tires are expensive but crashing your bike and hurting your body is worse.
How fast are you? IE how far off your class record pace are you? As racers we know Slicks are more difficult to heat up and keep heat, Q4s and DOTs generally warm up quicker. If youre not sure why you crashed, then it cannot only be tyres. If your confidence is shot in the corner you crashed and you dont know the reason, you might end up crashing again, which you did and still dont know the reason.
We had an issue with a low side where after extensive analysis found the exhaust touched on right turns at full lean, flexed and pushed against the rear master cylinder engaging the rear brake... Tyres are always the easiest to change... And blame
i hate this tyre, needs a lot to heat up and overheats as i get the pace up.
What if you have a track tire that's been used for 2 sessions, then left for almost a year and developed a hard "shell" should I throw them out? Or can I still use them?
If there is still 1mm or more tread depth, having a oil sheen (shiny coloured pattern) or dull old looking rubber on the surface is not a problem. All you have to do it take it easy for a lap or 2 (being very conscious of significantly reduced grip levels) and fresh rubber will be exposed. Once the top layer is worn off, they will be completely fine.
Alternatively, use a very course file to remove the top layer of rubber before use.
@@Sergeant898 ahh ok thanks!
I'd agree with the comments above. I wouldn't even say a tyre will develop a hard shell in that time, unless we're talking about different extremes here. It needs a good few years before tyres seriously degrade, from my understanding.
Use them.. I have 3 year old tyre that I used at my last track day. No difference. Looks and feels likes like my mates 4 session tyres
i wont change tyres till i see the threads in them, just slow the pace down a bit when they start moving BUT I WILL NEVER, let me repeat, NEVER, put used tyres on my bike
thats BS, some used tyres are still in good condition that might be better than your old maxed out tyres
Tires can't tell lies! from the tire wear pattern you can understand how the suspension is working and adjust them accordingly, it's called tireomancy
Can you please start making videos again, I’m trying to get better
Don't use em more than 2 track days and 2 heat cycles!
Hey, the tyres are cheaper than the bike - just saying... ;)