If you're playing two handed, I don't believe you need War Caster for spellcasting. The errata on the two-handed property says that you need to use two hands to attack with it, not to hold it. So you should be able to just let go of the weapon with one hand and cast a spell.
This is a point I’m unclear on and am happy to hear anyone explain why. If I make a level 1 character I can make them with whatever stats I want, so a fighter with a 12 in strength and dex could have 16+ intelligence, gain 2 more levels in fighter and become a psi warrior and then begin taking levels in wizard surely? To be perfectly honest I actually wouldn’t start a fighter at 12 str and dex, I’d have at least a 14 in dex but I’m fairly sure there’s nothing in the rules saying your first class has to have multiclass style prerequisite ability scores.
@@raylder6339 You have to meet the multiclass requirements of your starting class to multiclass. Like, if you don't meet the 13 in str or dex you can't chose a level in another class even if you meet that classes prerequisites.
The only time I've ever had the chance to play a level 20 character was in a combat focused "Gladiatorial Arena" one-shot. I decided to build the most unnecessary character I could and it was brutal. It was mostly a Sorcadin (Vengeance Paladin/Divine Soul Sorcerer) but it had a *very* heavy feat requirement so I took a single level in Hexblade Warlock to make him SAD, and I took 3 levels in Battle Master Fighter for some extra damage/utility and action surge. So with 8 levels in Paladin and 8 levels in Sorcerer as well as the Great Weapon Master feat at level 1 (Variant Human), the Polearm master feat, Sentinel feat, War Caster feat, a Glaive, and an 18 in Charisma... It was, without a doubt in my mind, the most fun nova build I've ever made but I don't think I'd ever willingly use it in a genuine campaign. The worst part was in the final round (a battle royal) only myself and the level 20 "summoner" lore bard were left (it started with 5 of us); with both of us being completely exhausted on spells and abilities, he won with a single health point (half orc) and took me out with a freaking Vicious Mockery Cantrip. Best night ever.
Divine soul sorcerer would be interesting to keep to the divine build of a paladin and gaining access to the cleric spell list would be interesting. Spiritual weapon and Spirit guardians for your melee are great additions to helping the paladin control that battle field a little more.
So yes, as you learn a new spell, you can swap out that initial alignment bonus spell for any cleric spell of a level you can cast. So you always have access to one appropriate level cleric spell. That is how I read it.
Spiritual weapon will amount to what? 3d8+12 damage per entire fight at most, 2d8 + 8 is more likely outcome. Most of that damage being backloaded. That is to say not as impactful as alpha striking and taking enemies off the board now. Moreover it will prevent you casting a levelled spell with your action you could be casting that could be way more impactful earlier. And you burn level 2 spell slot for it? Power is power, you don't need to make use of all your action economy to make a valuable turn. If you sqeeze more power from just an action than an action + bonus action, when not using bonus action is preferable. And you don't burn a spell slot on relatively crap spell which is situational at best.
I’d go Paladin 6 then full Sorcerer afterwards. Extra attack and the aura are great! The aura really helps the front line since you are squishier than normal so you are probably not the main “tank” and can help that tank out a lot with damage, healing and helping with saving throws.
That’s the only way I’ve done it. That aura of protection is insane for any type of play. Without it your saves will be weak and it’s the only thing you’re weak to as a Sorcadin. You can shoot long range spells, slap them across the field with smites, and at 6th paladin level, you’re even really hard to hit with save or suck spells. You’re a monster at that point, and a headache for the DM.
Aura of Hate only boosts the melee damage of my allies if they are Undead or Fiends. Also, it doesn't say i get to choose which, so it will help my enemies if i'm fighting any Undead or Fiends.
Here's a thought using Shadow Sorcerer: make the character a half orc with custom lineage to change the starting racial stats to strength and charisma. Why? The feature Relentless Endurance. That means two ways to keep fighting after HP drops to 0.
Tiefling Gold Draconic Sorcerer 8 (reflavored to be infernal bloodline) and conquest paladin 6. A hellknight and nightmare on the battlefield. Didn't go with a pole arm, rather I used shadowblade. Took Conquest for Armor of Agathys to cast on myself and my nightmare mount (find steed altered by DM) and spiritual weapon for consistent bonus action attacks. Took Flames of Phethelgos to be a porcupine here and there since I could cast fire spells twice during my turn, and as a reaction (Heloise rebuke racial) on top of Armor of Agythis to obliterate oncoming melee attackers.
Excellently done! I've been playing a sorcadin for two years now who currently sits at Oath of the Crown 3/Phoenix Sorcerer 8 (really wish the subclass didn't get squeezed out of official release by the wildfire druid but my DM is kind), and she is tremendously enjoyable both in and out of combat. (Current plan is to lose a paladin level in favour of another sorcerer level at some point, for RP reasons - it isn't entirely coincidental that the Level 18 phoenix sorcerer ability looks very much like a paladin capstone!) Your guidance is engaging and comprehensive and I would very much recommend it to anyone looking for a summary of the sorcadin and its playstyle. I would only add that War Caster isn't strictly necessary, even if it is a very good choice. As I understand it, if you opt for a two-handed weapon rather than a one-handed weapon and shield you can let go of the weapon with one hand to access a component pouch for spellcasting and then put the hand back on the weapon with your object interaction to start swinging again. This brings Resilient (Con) into contention when it comes to maintaining concentration, especially if you have an odd ability score that you'd like to rectify! (Of course, the above is also true if you can find a Ruby of the War Mage or similar item.) Nonetheless, War Caster will hardly steer you wrong if you choose it, so it's fair enough to put emphasis on it!
I tend to choose Resilient Constitution over Warcaster. It lets you get that 16/16/16 split at first ASI, it gets you proficiency in Constitution, and lets you bump up Constitution by 1. With my Sorcadin having played it from lv 6 all the way to present at lv 15, I can count on one hand the number of times I've lost concentration, and 3 out of those 4 times was very early on and due to high damage crits, and the fourth was also early on, failing a Wis save that incapacitated me.
Forgot to mention that shadow magic also makes it so you can see in magical darkness when cast with sorcerer points. And the hound of ill omen is essentially hightened spell on a creature. I made this build. Super fun
I'm so excited I stumbled across this channel, I always read your blogs. I have no idea why I never thought to look for you on any form of social media! XD
Booming Blade is your best friend for this kind of build. If you don't want to go too far into paladin (you only want the subclasses or even just divine smite), you can cast Booming Blade twice in one turn using quicken spell, somewhat circumventing Extra Attack. This does cost your bonus action and a few sorcery points, but the damage will be incredible especially past 5th level. You can smite any time you hit with a melee weapon, so you can smite while you're casting Booming Blade. At fifth level (2 Paladin, 3 Sorcerer, Rapier, Dueling Fighting Style, 2 sorc points and 2 1st level smites) in one turn you can Quicken Booming Blade, Smite, then Booming Blade, Smite for 2d8+(2*Str/Dex), 4d8 Radiant, 2d8 Thunder, and if the target moves before the start of your next turn, they take another 2d8 from Booming Blade. Consider taking Shadow Blade for Sorcerer for a finesse weapon with 2d8 Psychic Damage, 3d8 as a third level spell. That being 6d8 Psychic damage if you hit with both melee attacks, plus the extra 2d8 from Booming Blade, plus your smite, etc etc. Shadow Blade also has advantages on attacks against target's that are in dim light or darkness, which increases your chance of getting a crit slightly.
I once made a Level 3 Sorcadin called Ozzy who was a Zariel Tiefling with heavy emphasis on fire magic. I didn't get to play him because my computer couldn't run Foundry, but I'm still saving him for later
My brother in law (who is also my dm) and I decided to make dnd characters for each other for Christmas And he made me this build but the sorcerer subclass was a homebrew he found on dnd beyond
Oath of vengeance is my go to. Auto advantage for a minute straight….. getting misty step and hunters mark are great too…. Gotta love extra damage and better change to crit where you can pick the enemy you are going to erase from the census.
All I am gonna say. Rabbitfolk draconic sorcerer with 2 paladin. Lots of movement and repositioning along with making it a dex fighter you got a natural armoured smiting bunny dragon. Adorable het funny backstory options as well!!!
When they retire, will they move to a cave? Will there be bones everywhere? LOOK AT THE BONES!!! (sorry Monty Python reference instantly came to mind).
I'm surprised you didn't mention Ancients as an Oath option. The Nature's Wrath Channel Divinity and Ensnaring Strike on the spell list provide two good lockdown options to keep bads in melee with you and away from the squishies, Misty Step is great combat mobility, and the level 7 Aura is excellent for survivability for both you and your party.
I'm gonna make a Strength based unarmed Sorcadin build~ I don't like making characters that are too strong, but I also don't wanna be useless to my team. So I realised that i can even things out~ A strength based Unarmed build would be really weak, but I wanna feel like I'm doing strong punches, instead of doing a flurry like the Monks. So by removing the weapons from my Sorcadin, I'll make sure my damage doesn't outshine the rest of the party, while being able to keep up with them by applying Divine Smite on my fists~
Playing a tiefling sorcadin, went divine soul and we justified it by me absorbing the power of a dwarven earth deity, DM wasn't even intending it to fit with my classes but it did.
I'm playing volos kobold and the ability to lay on hands with 1 HP pool from it to bring back a downed party member is stupid in how good it is. Saved our party multiple times. Then we have the advantage on all attacks when you're next to allies making you extremely useful for getting critical hits with smite in. As well as being dex built. Making rapier and shield super good. As well as having the ability to detect evil and good allowing you to occasionally spot things most party members might miss. Then on top of that if attacking isn't going to be enough, growel cower and beg can grant advantage to all party members on their attack rolls which allowed my rouge to sneak in a crit which often instantly kills dangerous enemies.
My ideal combo: Race: Winged Zariel Tiefling Ability scores: 15 (+1 from racial), 10, 14, 8, 12, 13 (+2 from Racial) Start as a Paladin. At level 4, take War Caster. Following that take Sorcerer levels. Follow that with at least 2 levels of Warlock. Subclasses: I suggest Divine Soul Sorcerer, and Hex Blade warlock. Take Eldritch Blast complete with Agonizing Blast and Quickened Spell for more Dakka. Any Sacred Oath works, tbh. Pros: Tanky, losing MADness, Close range and Long range options, damage choices, flying Archer build, but better because no ammo, fire resistant Cons: Concentration can be an issue, AC takes a hit by wanting Chain Mail over Plate, Hit Dice isn't as good.
Hexasorcadin is an insane build that comes on a little later. If you use coffeelock for a one-shot where it's allowed, you get infinite level 5(4) smites where everything uses your charisma mod. It's nutty.
I think a single level of Hexblade would reduce the MADness a little by reducing the need for STR in combat ... even if you want a 15 so you can wear full plate, you wouldn't have to add to STR for combat purposes. You could just go Charisma all the way, then maybe concentrate on bringing up your CON. 😉 Not saying this is an optimal build, just ... exploring possibilities.
You are still dumping a whole level and still need 15 str (the sorcadin is extremely level hungry to begin with). What i usually recommend is 16 str and try to get either gaunlets of ogre power or belts of giant str by character lvl 8 which is when most people will be hitting 20 in their main stat. So you can have an 18 or 16 charisma depending on whether you picked warcaster or not , 16 con and either a 19 str or 20+ str depending whether you got belt or gaunlets. This is assuming you went paladin 6 sorc 14. You can also pick up either vengeance paladin or devotion paladin for the extra to hit chance (one by gaining advantage other by adding ch to hit rolls).
Progression for me; 1) 2 Levels into Paladin 2) 4 Levels into Sorcerer (Divine Soul) 3) 3 Levels into Fighter (Echo + Superior Technique / Parry & Trip Attack) 4) 5 Levels into Paladin (For Devotion Aura) 5) Rest of your levels into Divine Soul Sorcerer 6) My damage fun. Nova Round. Thank you Critlander for this build lol.
My ideal build: Custom Lineage for a CHA +1 feat 13 STR, 14 DEX, 14 CON, 8 WIS, 8 INT, 15 CHA Start as level 1 Shadow Sorc with 18 CHA and prof in CON saves 1 level dip into Warlock for hexblade, you can now use any one handed melee weapon with your CHA 2 levels of Paladin for Smite Currently player level 4, 18 CHA and 18 AC with a shield and Scale mail from Hexblade 5 more levels of Sorc for Hound of Ill Omen, can be used to ensure enemies fail their saves, cap out your CHA during ASI for +5 to hit with spells and damage with your hex weapon, you will have access to one 4th level spell slot since you are a total of 7 spell casting levels(1 from 2 paladin levels and 6 from Sorc), and you can attack in melee with booming blade + smite and quicken spell booming blade as a bonus action or attack from range with Eldritch blast or any other spell you'd like Finish with 4 more levels of Paladin, grants us an Oath (choose what you'd like), extra attack for more potential crit smites, can use ASI on CON or a feat, we have our maximum amount of 4th level slots which is the most damage a smite will allow, you gain Aura of Protection for helping you and your allies with saving throws, and if you are inclined you could take the Mounted Combatant feat at 4th level paladin and then cast summon steed at 5th level paladin, this will grant you advantage on any creature you attack from your steed that is medium or smaller. For the last 7 levels you can go with whatever class you'd like. If you really want a burst round take 2 fighter levels for Action Surge but do what you like. So my build ends at 13th level, 6 Sorcerer, 6 Paladin, 1 Warlock. You have an AC of 18 and about 90 HP and 20 CHA without any magical items. You are a 9th player level spell caster with 1 Pact Magic spell slot. In the perfect situation you are fighting a humanoid creature that is medium sized or smaller while you are mounted and your Hound of Ill Omen is up. You quicken spell Hold Person, the target has disadvantage on their save, and fail leaving them paralyzed. You then attack twice with your Lance that is your hexblade weapon. Assuming you hit both attacks they will both crit. Smiting with both will cause you to deal 4d12+ 20d8+10 which averages to ~138 Damage costing you only 5 Sorcery points 1 1st level spell slot and 2 4th level spell slots.
I have two notes. First, if you're going Divine Soul it's not for Inflict Wounds. 3d10 for 16.5 is fine, but a greatsword and green flame blade, assuming 16 Str and Cha and landing the GFB splash damage, does 2d6+6 for 13 damage. That first level slot is dealing 3.5 more average damage than a cantrip. Consider that. Now, I said going Divine Soul isn't for Inflict Wounds, and that's true. The real powergamer options are Healing Word at first level, and Spirit Guardians at 5th. Second, Warcaster being your first feat is definitely a good idea, but counter-proposal: Great Weapon Master. It'll bump your melee damage, it's more interactive, and Paladins get Bless. At early levels, you won't have that many spells to concentrate on anyway, and by the time you get access to things like Haste, Wall of Fire or Polymorph, you've already had two ASIs. In the meantime, why not Bless turn one and throw out Great Weapon Master Green Flame Blades, or GWMGFBs? Bless affects your saves too, don't forget, so your concentration is still protected, and even better: you can hit two party members with the same effect. After all, the Sorcadin is the Swiss army knife of the party. Damage, healing, defence, utility. Why not specialise in Support for the first few levels too?
On Archetypes for a Sorcadin 8/12 build: personally I'm a fan of Oath of Ancients + Divine Soul. Kinda crazy once you get Spiritual weapon and Spirit Guardians. It's probably weaker if you're party isn't looking to stay close to you in combat. Personally, I'm planning initially taking a 1 level dip in Sorc at 3rd level and then finishing the 8 pally levels after that. Decent early bump to spell slots as well as melee cantrips. I prefer Booming Blade as it's nicer with War Caster attacks of opportunity than GFB. I also think it's funny making an enemy pay an extra damage tax for trying to get away from you.
I honestly think storm sorcerer isnt good for this type of build. You always have something to do with your bonus action so the level one feature is pretty poor. I like clockwork soul is pretty good for extra survivability if you get to 6th level and you can also get armor of agathys at 2nd level which is an amazing spell for this Archetype.
You could also just play a Conquest paladin for Armor of Agathys (and [twinned] Command, and Spiritual Weapon) but I do love the Clockwork Soul; it gets such a great spell list it's hard to NOT play one. I also like Divine Soul for Spirit Guardians as well as Inflict Wounds ... 😍
Absolutely true, though I feel the Clockwork Soul gets better spell selections (you can hardly beat Armor of Agathys, for example, as a combination offense/defense spell, and Aid, because it actually raises the target's max hit points, is one of the best "healing" spells in the game).
@@MaurizioBonelli You dont pick it, they give you aid and honestly there isnt a lot of transmutation or abjuration 2nd lvl spell that you would want to swap it out for.
strength to min of 13 and take one level dip into hex blade with 8 level of sorcerer casting stuff like twined polymorph along with spirit guardians with 2 pally this build really comes on line at level 8 but continue right up until 20
I currently run a lv 8 Vengeance Paladin/ lv 7 Aberrant Mind Sorcerer. The amount of damage this does with Shadow Blade paired with Divine Smite is beyond disgustingly good. I cast SB at 5th level, making it a 4d8 weapon. On average, I deal about 25 psychic damage on average per hit on that alone. And I'm hitting twice. And if I'm in darkness or dim light, the attack is at advantage. And with Blind Fighting, I always know where my enemy is, even in magical darkness as long as they are within 10 feet of me. On top of that, if I am in light, I can use my channel divinity Vow of Enmity and gain advantage on all attacks against that foe. Plus, I can cast Shield to amp up my already high AC of 23 (Dusk Platemail and a +2 Shield) up to 28 when needed. I can also twin spell Dissonant Whispers when surrounded, forcing at least one to flee, and then making my attack of opportunity to not only tag the fleeing monster, but also be able to move half of my speed without provoking an attack against me.
I would be really interested to hear how you would handle taking a 1 lvl dip into hexblade to avoid needing strength at all (aside from heavy armor prerequisites).
Honestly I prefer bard-adin. You are still a full caster, but you get d8 hit points per bard level, and you can even get extra attack from college of swords, or college of valor. Defensive Flourish from CoS is a particularly favorite feature of mine for the build. The Added benefits from bard make it more possible to stop at 2 levels of paladin, and fill in the rest with full casting bard. Sure, you don't get access to the Sorc's metamagic, and Sorcery Points. However I tend to already be filling my bonus action with either Healing Word, or just a Smite Spell, and I'd rather have more full spell slots than Sorc points. I'm not able to burst quite as hard, but I've got more spell slots in my tank. Although this could all be shapped by the way my table tends to play. We'll often find ourselves in long strings of combat, and we don't often make it above level 12 before real life finds a way to throw our schedules out of whack, and we swap to a new game.
Targaryen is a house of red dragons with shape change at will only to human form. They are powerful sorcerers/paladins. Those born into the house can shape change while not in the house can't shape change. One in every 10 targaryen is an avatar of tiamat and sorcerer wise is resistant to fire, acid, ice, poison, and lightning. The rest are red dragon sorcerer's. They have had a few great wyrms but most of them have a lot more Ancient and adult. House targaryen is allies with house bloodfallen and house siebert (Dragon 14/ conquest 6) This a build I enjoy for this dnd house what I play paladin/sorcerer as a true red dragon
My paladin took the oath of redemption under Bahamut. At some point he had a vision of bahamut and gained a draconic bloodline. I am now 5th lvl paladin/ 1st lvl sorc. I'm open to any suggestions if anyone has any lol
My favorite combination is 13 levels of paladin and 7 in sorcerer (preferably divine soul). I refuse to give up on improved divine smite and fourth level paladin spells.
tbh, I would go level 1 paladin because of STR build requirement of going for GWM. But for anything other than that, level 1 sorc w/ DEX build is better imo. CON saves proficiency + medium armor > heavy armor
15:47 I thought Paladins got Aura of Protection at level 6. According to the video timestamp, we'll be level 6 as a sorcerer, so won't we miss it? Or does multiclass leveling work like this: Overall level 1-2 (Paladin 1-2) Overall level 3-6 (Sorcerer level 1-4) Overall level 7-10 (Paladin level 3-6) *this is where we get Aura of Protection* Overall level 11-20 (Sorcerer 5-14) Sorry I'm new, so let me know if I'm mistaken or overlooking something.
Is there a reason oath of the crown is not utilized more? I'm running a sorcadin in a campaign and am also the frontrunner for our party and it seems like a no-brainer with the ability to force enemies to engage me, heal the party and have battlefield control.
Why is inflict wounds so good? Isn’t it slightly less damage on average than just attacking and using the spell slot to smite? Your melee attack would likely be higher than your spell attack too, so it would have a lower chance to hit. Is it for the damage type?
I've been trying to make a Red Mage from Final Fantasy 14, and Sorcerer/Paladin has been very promising. If you, or anyone else is still reading the comments on this, I'd like to know what anyone thinks of Harengon as a potential for the race option. It gets 2 points in one ability score option, and 1 point in a second, both of your choice, as well as bonus to initiative rolls equal to proficiency bonus. You can add a d4 to a failed dex saving throw, and you have a 10 foot bonus action gap close/disengage at level 1 that you can use twice, that only requires you have a movement speed AT ALL and provokes no opportunity attacks, and the # of uses and range only get better as you level, because both are based off proficiency bonus. (PB x 5 for range, and can use a number of times = to PB before a long rest). Harengon might be a teensy bit busted.
Harengon is okay, races dont matter a lot in sordacin since tasha. I do really recommend dipping 1 lvl in warlock hexblade so you are not MAD anymore. Also from races the most interesting are; hill dwarf, custom lineage(so you can be something like an harengon) or changeling
Love it. And remember that if you're going sorcadin, the Jump spell works on the Harengon's jump distance, too. So after level 9 or so, you can literally jump out of the movement range of most creatures who'd like to attack you. It's like having a teleport from a first-level spell. Of course, whether you really want to leap out of melee range as a sorcadin is kind of an open question ...
I know I might be in the minority, but Min-maxing is way end up with characters who are too over specialized. Generalization is what is has allowed our species to thrive, it also gives you the most flexibility in DND.
Don't forget that Tasha's opens up the option for a custom lineage. You can start as any race and still pick up the Lv1 feat. You don't have to be locked into V.Human anymore. (Also you can't melee cantrip with Shadowblade anymore, RAW)
I am playing curse of stradh atm playing a moon Druid and I have made a deal with another player to allow them to sacrifice my character to gain a demon arm similar Eziek she really wants it so I am thinking of a sorhexidin or sorcidin what should I do with leveling should I be heavy on pally or sorcerer I do love me a sorcerer though
While that's still definitely a good build, the weakness of Paladin 2 builds is the loss of Paladin 6's Aura of Protection, which in my opinion is the best thing Paladins have going for them that isn't named Smite. The feature works with Hexblade quite nicely by playing into the "CHA is everything, the only other stat worth mentioning is CON" thing. Having played a Sorcadin who faced dragons, Aura of Protection is a godsend; your CON will presumably be good, but you still don't have proficiency in the save unless you take Resilient (CON), and you're generally going to need it even more desperately for DEX saves. A delay on such a feature hurts, but can be acceptable. Not getting it at all will leave you rolling death saves anytime your DM, or even some of your more trigger-happy caster teammates, even thinks too hard about Dexterity saves. If you think your group is stable enough to last, I can picture going Paladin 2, then taking a level or two in Hexblade, then the rest of your Paladin levels up to 6 (maybe 7 for some Oaths), then to Sorcerer 3 before finishing off your other levels of Hexblade, anywhere from Hexblade 3 to 6, and then going all Sorcerer. Every level is an upgrade on the last, and while it does take a bit to come fully online (only starting Sorcerer at 8-10, when only half of campaigns that start at level 1 even make it to 10, which can take a year of weekly play depending how often you level up) and delaying the first ASI, Extra Attack, and especially Aura of Protection do hurt a bit in the early-midgame, being able to put CHA on everything by level 7 or 8 makes it very powerful after that point, carrying you through the rest of the process.
You can very easily get gaunlets of ogre power by level 8 or even belts of giant str if your dmg is generous. Both these items keep you competitive with other classes that are not MAD and let you pick up feats over asis.
I do appreciate your guide. But I feel like you gloss over the most important thing, being the spells. Both in a 'what kind off spells are of note' and maybe different because of the playstyle kind of way, as well when talking about the subclasses. When taking 2 or 6 levels of paladin, I think the spell list is what to look at, not the subclass feature.
“Zariel Tieflings seem tailor made for sorcadins” This is very true. Goldenheart, my Zariel Tiefling, started as a wild mage but after I got downed too many times early level I went Paladin multiclass for the armor, and I soon realized how much power they now possessed :3
I really don't think the inflict wounds spell is very good. 3d10 averages out at 16.5 necrotic with a 1st level slot. However, if you took polearm master instead of war caster, you'd be doing 1d10+1d4+6 slashing, which averages 14 damage while consuming zero resources. If if you have bless, divine favour, or any other buff spell going, you'll be dealing more damage than inflict wounds EVERY round while still only consuming a single 1st level slot. Sure you might lose concentration after your first attack, but by then your buff spell has already done as much damage as inflict wounds, so any extra turns are just gravy. Also bless buffs 2 other people as well, likely increasing their damage too
i disagree with the Devotion over Conquest build personally. Yes adding Charisma modifier to your attacks is nice, but you'll do more dmg with Spiritual Weapon than Sacred Weapon (unless you go polearm). And once Spiritual Weapon turns on at lvl 5, its almost equal to as much as you can use it (2x per long rest, Sacred Weapon once per short rest) but as you lvl in Sorcerer it increase in times you can use and eventually you can upcast it to 2d8+modifier. Also, Sacred Weapon is an Action to cast. So thats one round you're not going to be attacking. And personally if I have a round where I can't attack because enemy is too far away, i'd rather use that to cast Bless (if I haven't gotten Shadow Blade yet from Sorcerer multi) or to cast Spirit Guardians once i'm 6Pali/5Sorc. So with Polearm, Sacred Weapon will come out on top for dmg (but again really only if you have a first round where you can't attack) but now you're taking that over Warcaster, or if you take both you're losing out on ability increases. I personally think Conquest is a better option purely for Spiritual Weapon allowing you to take Warcaster as the only necessary feat. But just my thoughts.
Zero love ;p. Yea, we'd talked about triple classing discussions and videos but decided to keep it currently to the most popular of two classes only. Have you played one?
@@SkullSplitter I have done a couple of levels into warlock too, mostly so i have spells that recharge on a short rest. It was prety awesome tbh, i rarely needed to rest and could keep going and going and going
@@Sharktopus86 pls tell me more about sorlockadin. I want to build one but I am not sure what the best choices are. Do I need 3 levels in warlock to sustain long rest exhaustion?
I agree with this. Magic Resistance is actually broken lmao. Also if your DM allows Satyrs, Magic Resistance combined with being fey instead of humanoid is insane.
If you are going only for damage and smites yeah. But the quickened metamagic is the real key for this multiclass. A lot of spells out of the bard or paladin are really good in and out of combat. And the ability to just use them as a bonus action can be a massive change in the Battlefield. Example you attack twice to an enemy, then as a bonus action you cas a quickened web in a group of enemies behind, so they must make a dex save or be restrained
You have the bard spell list which is trash (no green flame blade or booming blade) until magical secrets and delay extra attack until either lvl 6 or 8. You loose access to the sorcerer spell list (2nd strongest in the game and with clockwork soul or divine soul id argue the strongest) and metamagic for things such as a quickened or twinned haste, extended spell aid or quickened/twinned shield of faith/protection from evil and good or a quickened hold person/monster. All this to gain 1 extra die of damage per turn and a slight bump to your ac that isnt as reliable as shield (you also loose access to absorb elements) magical secrets at a very late point in the game (lvl 12 when most campaigns end by then, before or by lvl 14) half proficiencies in some skills and a couple expertise (id argue magical guidance is better than both of these).
If you're playing two handed, I don't believe you need War Caster for spellcasting. The errata on the two-handed property says that you need to use two hands to attack with it, not to hold it. So you should be able to just let go of the weapon with one hand and cast a spell.
But if you have a longsword for example, it can be used with 1 hand. Add a shield on there and then you can effectively use war caster
I believe that multiclassing stat requirements go both ways so this build will always need 13 str and cha no matter which class you start with
Also was there official errata on Shadowblade + booming/green flame blade or does this build assume the combo still works?
correct
@@ariashkenazi9211 also correct
This is a point I’m unclear on and am happy to hear anyone explain why. If I make a level 1 character I can make them with whatever stats I want, so a fighter with a 12 in strength and dex could have 16+ intelligence, gain 2 more levels in fighter and become a psi warrior and then begin taking levels in wizard surely?
To be perfectly honest I actually wouldn’t start a fighter at 12 str and dex, I’d have at least a 14 in dex but I’m fairly sure there’s nothing in the rules saying your first class has to have multiclass style prerequisite ability scores.
@@raylder6339
You have to meet the multiclass requirements of your starting class to multiclass. Like, if you don't meet the 13 in str or dex you can't chose a level in another class even if you meet that classes prerequisites.
The only time I've ever had the chance to play a level 20 character was in a combat focused "Gladiatorial Arena" one-shot. I decided to build the most unnecessary character I could and it was brutal. It was mostly a Sorcadin (Vengeance Paladin/Divine Soul Sorcerer) but it had a *very* heavy feat requirement so I took a single level in Hexblade Warlock to make him SAD, and I took 3 levels in Battle Master Fighter for some extra damage/utility and action surge. So with 8 levels in Paladin and 8 levels in Sorcerer as well as the Great Weapon Master feat at level 1 (Variant Human), the Polearm master feat, Sentinel feat, War Caster feat, a Glaive, and an 18 in Charisma... It was, without a doubt in my mind, the most fun nova build I've ever made but I don't think I'd ever willingly use it in a genuine campaign. The worst part was in the final round (a battle royal) only myself and the level 20 "summoner" lore bard were left (it started with 5 of us); with both of us being completely exhausted on spells and abilities, he won with a single health point (half orc) and took me out with a freaking Vicious Mockery Cantrip. Best night ever.
Surprised a moon druid didn't show up....
I'm assuming it was a Spear since you can't use Cha on 2H weapons?
Divine soul sorcerer would be interesting to keep to the divine build of a paladin and gaining access to the cleric spell list would be interesting. Spiritual weapon and Spirit guardians for your melee are great additions to helping the paladin control that battle field a little more.
Im playing that build now it is very versatile
So yes, as you learn a new spell, you can swap out that initial alignment bonus spell for any cleric spell of a level you can cast.
So you always have access to one appropriate level cleric spell.
That is how I read it.
Spiritual weapon will amount to what? 3d8+12 damage per entire fight at most, 2d8 + 8 is more likely outcome.
Most of that damage being backloaded. That is to say not as impactful as alpha striking and taking enemies off the board now.
Moreover it will prevent you casting a levelled spell with your action you could be casting that could be way more impactful earlier.
And you burn level 2 spell slot for it?
Power is power, you don't need to make use of all your action economy to make a valuable turn. If you sqeeze more power from just an action than an action + bonus action, when not using bonus action is preferable. And you don't burn a spell slot on relatively crap spell which is situational at best.
Race: Dragonborn
Paladin(oath of vengeance)
Sorcerer (draconic)
Sounds cool don’t what know the levels should be though
from personal experience, 6 paladin and rest sorcerer is LOVELY.
You actually need a 13 charisma AND strength when multiclassing into OR out of paladin 👍🏻
I’d go Paladin 6 then full Sorcerer afterwards. Extra attack and the aura are great! The aura really helps the front line since you are squishier than normal so you are probably not the main “tank” and can help that tank out a lot with damage, healing and helping with saving throws.
That’s the only way I’ve done it. That aura of protection is insane for any type of play. Without it your saves will be weak and it’s the only thing you’re weak to as a Sorcadin. You can shoot long range spells, slap them across the field with smites, and at 6th paladin level, you’re even really hard to hit with save or suck spells.
You’re a monster at that point, and a headache for the DM.
As I see it, taking your first level of sorcerer at 2nd level gets you cantrips and a bit more smiting.
Aura of Hate only boosts the melee damage of my allies if they are Undead or Fiends.
Also, it doesn't say i get to choose which, so it will help my enemies if i'm fighting any Undead or Fiends.
You need a minimum of 13 strength and 13 charisma to multiclass in either direction between Paladin and sorcerer 7:40
Here's a thought using Shadow Sorcerer: make the character a half orc with custom lineage to change the starting racial stats to strength and charisma. Why? The feature Relentless Endurance. That means two ways to keep fighting after HP drops to 0.
*Me, furiously writing that down*
Tiefling Gold Draconic Sorcerer 8 (reflavored to be infernal bloodline) and conquest paladin 6. A hellknight and nightmare on the battlefield. Didn't go with a pole arm, rather I used shadowblade. Took Conquest for Armor of Agathys to cast on myself and my nightmare mount (find steed altered by DM) and spiritual weapon for consistent bonus action attacks. Took Flames of Phethelgos to be a porcupine here and there since I could cast fire spells twice during my turn, and as a reaction (Heloise rebuke racial) on top of Armor of Agythis to obliterate oncoming melee attackers.
A Hill Dwarf, Dex-build Draconic Sorcerer with 2 levels in Paladin and the Tough feat, was awesome to play.
Excellently done! I've been playing a sorcadin for two years now who currently sits at Oath of the Crown 3/Phoenix Sorcerer 8 (really wish the subclass didn't get squeezed out of official release by the wildfire druid but my DM is kind), and she is tremendously enjoyable both in and out of combat. (Current plan is to lose a paladin level in favour of another sorcerer level at some point, for RP reasons - it isn't entirely coincidental that the Level 18 phoenix sorcerer ability looks very much like a paladin capstone!) Your guidance is engaging and comprehensive and I would very much recommend it to anyone looking for a summary of the sorcadin and its playstyle.
I would only add that War Caster isn't strictly necessary, even if it is a very good choice. As I understand it, if you opt for a two-handed weapon rather than a one-handed weapon and shield you can let go of the weapon with one hand to access a component pouch for spellcasting and then put the hand back on the weapon with your object interaction to start swinging again. This brings Resilient (Con) into contention when it comes to maintaining concentration, especially if you have an odd ability score that you'd like to rectify! (Of course, the above is also true if you can find a Ruby of the War Mage or similar item.) Nonetheless, War Caster will hardly steer you wrong if you choose it, so it's fair enough to put emphasis on it!
I tend to choose Resilient Constitution over Warcaster. It lets you get that 16/16/16 split at first ASI, it gets you proficiency in Constitution, and lets you bump up Constitution by 1. With my Sorcadin having played it from lv 6 all the way to present at lv 15, I can count on one hand the number of times I've lost concentration, and 3 out of those 4 times was very early on and due to high damage crits, and the fourth was also early on, failing a Wis save that incapacitated me.
Storm Sorcerer's 1st level ability, Tempestuous Magic, requires you to use a spell of 1st level or higher.
Forgot to mention that shadow magic also makes it so you can see in magical darkness when cast with sorcerer points. And the hound of ill omen is essentially hightened spell on a creature. I made this build. Super fun
I'm so excited I stumbled across this channel, I always read your blogs. I have no idea why I never thought to look for you on any form of social media! XD
Thanks James! Yea, we mention when videos and blog posts are released on our email list. Huzzah!
Booming Blade is your best friend for this kind of build. If you don't want to go too far into paladin (you only want the subclasses or even just divine smite), you can cast Booming Blade twice in one turn using quicken spell, somewhat circumventing Extra Attack. This does cost your bonus action and a few sorcery points, but the damage will be incredible especially past 5th level. You can smite any time you hit with a melee weapon, so you can smite while you're casting Booming Blade.
At fifth level (2 Paladin, 3 Sorcerer, Rapier, Dueling Fighting Style, 2 sorc points and 2 1st level smites) in one turn you can Quicken Booming Blade, Smite, then Booming Blade, Smite for 2d8+(2*Str/Dex), 4d8 Radiant, 2d8 Thunder, and if the target moves before the start of your next turn, they take another 2d8 from Booming Blade.
Consider taking Shadow Blade for Sorcerer for a finesse weapon with 2d8 Psychic Damage, 3d8 as a third level spell. That being 6d8 Psychic damage if you hit with both melee attacks, plus the extra 2d8 from Booming Blade, plus your smite, etc etc. Shadow Blade also has advantages on attacks against target's that are in dim light or darkness, which increases your chance of getting a crit slightly.
I once made a Level 3 Sorcadin called Ozzy who was a Zariel Tiefling with heavy emphasis on fire magic. I didn't get to play him because my computer couldn't run Foundry, but I'm still saving him for later
Blooming blade, sounds like a ranger/druid version of Shadow Blade.
My brother in law (who is also my dm) and I decided to make dnd characters for each other for Christmas
And he made me this build but the sorcerer subclass was a homebrew he found on dnd beyond
Oath of vengeance is my go to. Auto advantage for a minute straight….. getting misty step and hunters mark are great too…. Gotta love extra damage and better change to crit where you can pick the enemy you are going to erase from the census.
All I am gonna say. Rabbitfolk draconic sorcerer with 2 paladin. Lots of movement and repositioning along with making it a dex fighter you got a natural armoured smiting bunny dragon.
Adorable het funny backstory options as well!!!
When they retire, will they move to a cave? Will there be bones everywhere? LOOK AT THE BONES!!! (sorry Monty Python reference instantly came to mind).
@@SkullSplitter XD
I'm surprised you didn't mention Ancients as an Oath option. The Nature's Wrath Channel Divinity and Ensnaring Strike on the spell list provide two good lockdown options to keep bads in melee with you and away from the squishies, Misty Step is great combat mobility, and the level 7 Aura is excellent for survivability for both you and your party.
I'm gonna make a Strength based unarmed Sorcadin build~
I don't like making characters that are too strong, but I also don't wanna be useless to my team.
So I realised that i can even things out~
A strength based Unarmed build would be really weak, but I wanna feel like I'm doing strong punches, instead of doing a flurry like the Monks.
So by removing the weapons from my Sorcadin, I'll make sure my damage doesn't outshine the rest of the party, while being able to keep up with them by applying Divine Smite on my fists~
Playing a tiefling sorcadin, went divine soul and we justified it by me absorbing the power of a dwarven earth deity, DM wasn't even intending it to fit with my classes but it did.
What was your sorcadin named?
@@SkullSplitter it was called Chrys alis it was originally an eladrin ranger but I swapped it to a sorcadin at last minute.
Nice. We love to ask because we see such creativity on this.
I'm playing volos kobold and the ability to lay on hands with 1 HP pool from it to bring back a downed party member is stupid in how good it is. Saved our party multiple times.
Then we have the advantage on all attacks when you're next to allies making you extremely useful for getting critical hits with smite in.
As well as being dex built. Making rapier and shield super good. As well as having the ability to detect evil and good allowing you to occasionally spot things most party members might miss.
Then on top of that if attacking isn't going to be enough, growel cower and beg can grant advantage to all party members on their attack rolls which allowed my rouge to sneak in a crit which often instantly kills dangerous enemies.
Nice. Whats their name?
My ideal combo:
Race: Winged Zariel Tiefling
Ability scores: 15 (+1 from racial), 10, 14, 8, 12, 13 (+2 from Racial)
Start as a Paladin. At level 4, take War Caster. Following that take Sorcerer levels. Follow that with at least 2 levels of Warlock.
Subclasses: I suggest Divine Soul Sorcerer, and Hex Blade warlock. Take Eldritch Blast complete with Agonizing Blast and Quickened Spell for more Dakka. Any Sacred Oath works, tbh.
Pros: Tanky, losing MADness, Close range and Long range options, damage choices, flying Archer build, but better because no ammo, fire resistant
Cons: Concentration can be an issue, AC takes a hit by wanting Chain Mail over Plate, Hit Dice isn't as good.
Could take eldritch mind invocation instead of warcaster to get an extra ASI
Hexasorcadin is an insane build that comes on a little later. If you use coffeelock for a one-shot where it's allowed, you get infinite level 5(4) smites where everything uses your charisma mod. It's nutty.
Forget blooming blade, I'm interested in this mirror damage spell you mentioned (did you mean mirror image?)
I think a single level of Hexblade would reduce the MADness a little by reducing the need for STR in combat ... even if you want a 15 so you can wear full plate, you wouldn't have to add to STR for combat purposes. You could just go Charisma all the way, then maybe concentrate on bringing up your CON. 😉 Not saying this is an optimal build, just ... exploring possibilities.
You are still dumping a whole level and still need 15 str (the sorcadin is extremely level hungry to begin with). What i usually recommend is 16 str and try to get either gaunlets of ogre power or belts of giant str by character lvl 8 which is when most people will be hitting 20 in their main stat. So you can have an 18 or 16 charisma depending on whether you picked warcaster or not , 16 con and either a 19 str or 20+ str depending whether you got belt or gaunlets. This is assuming you went paladin 6 sorc 14. You can also pick up either vengeance paladin or devotion paladin for the extra to hit chance (one by gaining advantage other by adding ch to hit rolls).
With some luck I got the Amulet of good health in my campaign and it certainly helped with my negligence in Con
Progression for me;
1) 2 Levels into Paladin
2) 4 Levels into Sorcerer (Divine Soul)
3) 3 Levels into Fighter (Echo + Superior Technique / Parry & Trip Attack)
4) 5 Levels into Paladin (For Devotion Aura)
5) Rest of your levels into Divine Soul Sorcerer
6) My damage fun. Nova Round. Thank you Critlander for this build lol.
Smite and quickened spell for the bonus action makes for a ton of damage.
My ideal build:
Custom Lineage for a CHA +1 feat
13 STR, 14 DEX, 14 CON, 8 WIS, 8 INT, 15 CHA
Start as level 1 Shadow Sorc with 18 CHA and prof in CON saves
1 level dip into Warlock for hexblade, you can now use any one handed melee weapon with your CHA
2 levels of Paladin for Smite
Currently player level 4, 18 CHA and 18 AC with a shield and Scale mail from Hexblade
5 more levels of Sorc for Hound of Ill Omen, can be used to ensure enemies fail their saves, cap out your CHA during ASI for +5 to hit with spells and damage with your hex weapon, you will have access to one 4th level spell slot since you are a total of 7 spell casting levels(1 from 2 paladin levels and 6 from Sorc), and you can attack in melee with booming blade + smite and quicken spell booming blade as a bonus action or attack from range with Eldritch blast or any other spell you'd like
Finish with 4 more levels of Paladin, grants us an Oath (choose what you'd like), extra attack for more potential crit smites, can use ASI on CON or a feat, we have our maximum amount of 4th level slots which is the most damage a smite will allow, you gain Aura of Protection for helping you and your allies with saving throws, and if you are inclined you could take the Mounted Combatant feat at 4th level paladin and then cast summon steed at 5th level paladin, this will grant you advantage on any creature you attack from your steed that is medium or smaller.
For the last 7 levels you can go with whatever class you'd like. If you really want a burst round take 2 fighter levels for Action Surge but do what you like.
So my build ends at 13th level, 6 Sorcerer, 6 Paladin, 1 Warlock. You have an AC of 18 and about 90 HP and 20 CHA without any magical items. You are a 9th player level spell caster with 1 Pact Magic spell slot. In the perfect situation you are fighting a humanoid creature that is medium sized or smaller while you are mounted and your Hound of Ill Omen is up. You quicken spell Hold Person, the target has disadvantage on their save, and fail leaving them paralyzed. You then attack twice with your Lance that is your hexblade weapon. Assuming you hit both attacks they will both crit. Smiting with both will cause you to deal 4d12+ 20d8+10 which averages to ~138 Damage costing you only 5 Sorcery points 1 1st level spell slot and 2 4th level spell slots.
What an excellent video.
May channel divinity be quickened?
I have two notes.
First, if you're going Divine Soul it's not for Inflict Wounds. 3d10 for 16.5 is fine, but a greatsword and green flame blade, assuming 16 Str and Cha and landing the GFB splash damage, does 2d6+6 for 13 damage. That first level slot is dealing 3.5 more average damage than a cantrip. Consider that.
Now, I said going Divine Soul isn't for Inflict Wounds, and that's true. The real powergamer options are Healing Word at first level, and Spirit Guardians at 5th.
Second, Warcaster being your first feat is definitely a good idea, but counter-proposal: Great Weapon Master. It'll bump your melee damage, it's more interactive, and Paladins get Bless. At early levels, you won't have that many spells to concentrate on anyway, and by the time you get access to things like Haste, Wall of Fire or Polymorph, you've already had two ASIs. In the meantime, why not Bless turn one and throw out Great Weapon Master Green Flame Blades, or GWMGFBs? Bless affects your saves too, don't forget, so your concentration is still protected, and even better: you can hit two party members with the same effect.
After all, the Sorcadin is the Swiss army knife of the party. Damage, healing, defence, utility. Why not specialise in Support for the first few levels too?
Blooming blade is the weapon of choice for most druid warriors.
On Archetypes for a Sorcadin 8/12 build: personally I'm a fan of Oath of Ancients + Divine Soul. Kinda crazy once you get Spiritual weapon and Spirit Guardians. It's probably weaker if you're party isn't looking to stay close to you in combat. Personally, I'm planning initially taking a 1 level dip in Sorc at 3rd level and then finishing the 8 pally levels after that. Decent early bump to spell slots as well as melee cantrips. I prefer Booming Blade as it's nicer with War Caster attacks of opportunity than GFB. I also think it's funny making an enemy pay an extra damage tax for trying to get away from you.
I honestly think storm sorcerer isnt good for this type of build. You always have something to do with your bonus action so the level one feature is pretty poor.
I like clockwork soul is pretty good for extra survivability if you get to 6th level and you can also get armor of agathys at 2nd level which is an amazing spell for this Archetype.
You could also just play a Conquest paladin for Armor of Agathys (and [twinned] Command, and Spiritual Weapon) but I do love the Clockwork Soul; it gets such a great spell list it's hard to NOT play one. I also like Divine Soul for Spirit Guardians as well as Inflict Wounds ... 😍
No mention of the Clockwork Soul or Aberrant Mind? The extra spell selections they get are awesome!
Absolutely true, though I feel the Clockwork Soul gets better spell selections (you can hardly beat Armor of Agathys, for example, as a combination offense/defense spell, and Aid, because it actually raises the target's max hit points, is one of the best "healing" spells in the game).
@@morganpetros9635 Aid is already within the Paladin spells - I would not pick it on the sorcerer's side of spells ;)
@@MaurizioBonelli You dont pick it, they give you aid and honestly there isnt a lot of transmutation or abjuration 2nd lvl spell that you would want to swap it out for.
strength to min of 13 and take one level dip into hex blade with 8 level of sorcerer casting stuff like twined polymorph along with spirit guardians with 2 pally this build really comes on line at level 8 but continue right up until 20
I currently run a lv 8 Vengeance Paladin/ lv 7 Aberrant Mind Sorcerer. The amount of damage this does with Shadow Blade paired with Divine Smite is beyond disgustingly good. I cast SB at 5th level, making it a 4d8 weapon. On average, I deal about 25 psychic damage on average per hit on that alone. And I'm hitting twice. And if I'm in darkness or dim light, the attack is at advantage. And with Blind Fighting, I always know where my enemy is, even in magical darkness as long as they are within 10 feet of me. On top of that, if I am in light, I can use my channel divinity Vow of Enmity and gain advantage on all attacks against that foe. Plus, I can cast Shield to amp up my already high AC of 23 (Dusk Platemail and a +2 Shield) up to 28 when needed. I can also twin spell Dissonant Whispers when surrounded, forcing at least one to flee, and then making my attack of opportunity to not only tag the fleeing monster, but also be able to move half of my speed without provoking an attack against me.
I would be really interested to hear how you would handle taking a 1 lvl dip into hexblade to avoid needing strength at all (aside from heavy armor prerequisites).
Great video! I am at the point where I am considering making my Pal a Sorcadin. Is there any info on which sorcerers mesh best with each oath?
Honestly I prefer bard-adin. You are still a full caster, but you get d8 hit points per bard level, and you can even get extra attack from college of swords, or college of valor. Defensive Flourish from CoS is a particularly favorite feature of mine for the build. The Added benefits from bard make it more possible to stop at 2 levels of paladin, and fill in the rest with full casting bard.
Sure, you don't get access to the Sorc's metamagic, and Sorcery Points. However I tend to already be filling my bonus action with either Healing Word, or just a Smite Spell, and I'd rather have more full spell slots than Sorc points. I'm not able to burst quite as hard, but I've got more spell slots in my tank.
Although this could all be shapped by the way my table tends to play. We'll often find ourselves in long strings of combat, and we don't often make it above level 12 before real life finds a way to throw our schedules out of whack, and we swap to a new game.
Did you see our Bardadin video? We hear you on the scheduling!
@@SkullSplitter no, I found your channel through this video, I'll check it out.
I'm playing a half elf draconic sorcadin. He's just smite machine. Only at level 5, but does nova damage. Just waiting for 6 and that war caster feat!
Targaryen is a house of red dragons with shape change at will only to human form. They are powerful sorcerers/paladins. Those born into the house can shape change while not in the house can't shape change. One in every 10 targaryen is an avatar of tiamat and sorcerer wise is resistant to fire, acid, ice, poison, and lightning. The rest are red dragon sorcerer's. They have had a few great wyrms but most of them have a lot more Ancient and adult. House targaryen is allies with house bloodfallen and house siebert
(Dragon 14/ conquest 6)
This a build I enjoy for this dnd house what I play paladin/sorcerer as a true red dragon
twin spell booming blade to have an (almost) extra attack sometimes
I thought about similar but was told you can't twin booming blade or green flame blade as they have a range of self.
My paladin took the oath of redemption under Bahamut. At some point he had a vision of bahamut and gained a draconic bloodline. I am now 5th lvl paladin/ 1st lvl sorc. I'm open to any suggestions if anyone has any lol
My favorite combination is 13 levels of paladin and 7 in sorcerer (preferably divine soul). I refuse to give up on improved divine smite and fourth level paladin spells.
But...couldn't you just use 4th level sorcerer spells instead? What's the difference?
@@darthvega3 Find greater steed is pretty hard to give up, to be fair.
Aasimar divine soul sorcadin is super flavourfull
tbh, I would go level 1 paladin because of STR build requirement of going for GWM. But for anything other than that, level 1 sorc w/ DEX build is better imo. CON saves proficiency + medium armor > heavy armor
15:47 I thought Paladins got Aura of Protection at level 6. According to the video timestamp, we'll be level 6 as a sorcerer, so won't we miss it? Or does multiclass leveling work like this:
Overall level 1-2 (Paladin 1-2)
Overall level 3-6 (Sorcerer level 1-4)
Overall level 7-10 (Paladin level 3-6) *this is where we get Aura of Protection*
Overall level 11-20 (Sorcerer 5-14)
Sorry I'm new, so let me know if I'm mistaken or overlooking something.
You gotta add in one level of hexblade warlock
I just got inspired to homebrew Blooming Blade.
Is there a reason oath of the crown is not utilized more? I'm running a sorcadin in a campaign and am also the frontrunner for our party and it seems like a no-brainer with the ability to force enemies to engage me, heal the party and have battlefield control.
Why is inflict wounds so good? Isn’t it slightly less damage on average than just attacking and using the spell slot to smite? Your melee attack would likely be higher than your spell attack too, so it would have a lower chance to hit. Is it for the damage type?
Would you rather sword and board or gwm type of build please need insight
Depends on your play style, but this is probably sword and board for me.
I've been trying to make a Red Mage from Final Fantasy 14, and Sorcerer/Paladin has been very promising. If you, or anyone else is still reading the comments on this, I'd like to know what anyone thinks of Harengon as a potential for the race option. It gets 2 points in one ability score option, and 1 point in a second, both of your choice, as well as bonus to initiative rolls equal to proficiency bonus. You can add a d4 to a failed dex saving throw, and you have a 10 foot bonus action gap close/disengage at level 1 that you can use twice, that only requires you have a movement speed AT ALL and provokes no opportunity attacks, and the # of uses and range only get better as you level, because both are based off proficiency bonus. (PB x 5 for range, and can use a number of times = to PB before a long rest). Harengon might be a teensy bit busted.
Harengon is okay, races dont matter a lot in sordacin since tasha. I do really recommend dipping 1 lvl in warlock hexblade so you are not MAD anymore. Also from races the most interesting are; hill dwarf, custom lineage(so you can be something like an harengon) or changeling
Love it. And remember that if you're going sorcadin, the Jump spell works on the Harengon's jump distance, too. So after level 9 or so, you can literally jump out of the movement range of most creatures who'd like to attack you. It's like having a teleport from a first-level spell.
Of course, whether you really want to leap out of melee range as a sorcadin is kind of an open question ...
I know I might be in the minority, but Min-maxing is way end up with characters who are too over specialized. Generalization is what is has allowed our species to thrive, it also gives you the most flexibility in DND.
Don't forget that Tasha's opens up the option for a custom lineage. You can start as any race and still pick up the Lv1 feat. You don't have to be locked into V.Human anymore.
(Also you can't melee cantrip with Shadowblade anymore, RAW)
I am playing curse of stradh atm playing a moon Druid and I have made a deal with another player to allow them to sacrifice my character to gain a demon arm similar Eziek she really wants it so I am thinking of a sorhexidin or sorcidin what should I do with leveling should I be heavy on pally or sorcerer I do love me a sorcerer though
a good build to solve the mad problem is going 2 levels of paladin, 3 to 5 blade warlock and the rest sorc
While that's still definitely a good build, the weakness of Paladin 2 builds is the loss of Paladin 6's Aura of Protection, which in my opinion is the best thing Paladins have going for them that isn't named Smite. The feature works with Hexblade quite nicely by playing into the "CHA is everything, the only other stat worth mentioning is CON" thing. Having played a Sorcadin who faced dragons, Aura of Protection is a godsend; your CON will presumably be good, but you still don't have proficiency in the save unless you take Resilient (CON), and you're generally going to need it even more desperately for DEX saves. A delay on such a feature hurts, but can be acceptable. Not getting it at all will leave you rolling death saves anytime your DM, or even some of your more trigger-happy caster teammates, even thinks too hard about Dexterity saves.
If you think your group is stable enough to last, I can picture going Paladin 2, then taking a level or two in Hexblade, then the rest of your Paladin levels up to 6 (maybe 7 for some Oaths), then to Sorcerer 3 before finishing off your other levels of Hexblade, anywhere from Hexblade 3 to 6, and then going all Sorcerer. Every level is an upgrade on the last, and while it does take a bit to come fully online (only starting Sorcerer at 8-10, when only half of campaigns that start at level 1 even make it to 10, which can take a year of weekly play depending how often you level up) and delaying the first ASI, Extra Attack, and especially Aura of Protection do hurt a bit in the early-midgame, being able to put CHA on everything by level 7 or 8 makes it very powerful after that point, carrying you through the rest of the process.
You can very easily get gaunlets of ogre power by level 8 or even belts of giant str if your dmg is generous. Both these items keep you competitive with other classes that are not MAD and let you pick up feats over asis.
I do appreciate your guide. But I feel like you gloss over the most important thing, being the spells. Both in a 'what kind off spells are of note' and maybe different because of the playstyle kind of way, as well when talking about the subclasses. When taking 2 or 6 levels of paladin, I think the spell list is what to look at, not the subclass feature.
For spells, choose healing, buffing, and utilitarian spells since your primary use of spell slots will be Divine Smite.
I think you're dismissing oath of ancients as it's 7th lvl aura is resistance to spell damage.
#awesome 🎉🎉🎉
What is Mirror Damage?
“Zariel Tieflings seem tailor made for sorcadins”
This is very true. Goldenheart, my Zariel Tiefling, started as a wild mage but after I got downed too many times early level I went Paladin multiclass for the armor, and I soon realized how much power they now possessed :3
Quickened inflict wounds is not worth it. Quicken GFB or booming blade. Extra smite and tons of damage. Up to 3 weapon attacks in a turn!
I really don't think the inflict wounds spell is very good. 3d10 averages out at 16.5 necrotic with a 1st level slot.
However, if you took polearm master instead of war caster, you'd be doing 1d10+1d4+6 slashing, which averages 14 damage while consuming zero resources. If if you have bless, divine favour, or any other buff spell going, you'll be dealing more damage than inflict wounds EVERY round while still only consuming a single 1st level slot. Sure you might lose concentration after your first attack, but by then your buff spell has already done as much damage as inflict wounds, so any extra turns are just gravy. Also bless buffs 2 other people as well, likely increasing their damage too
i disagree with the Devotion over Conquest build personally. Yes adding Charisma modifier to your attacks is nice, but you'll do more dmg with Spiritual Weapon than Sacred Weapon (unless you go polearm). And once Spiritual Weapon turns on at lvl 5, its almost equal to as much as you can use it (2x per long rest, Sacred Weapon once per short rest) but as you lvl in Sorcerer it increase in times you can use and eventually you can upcast it to 2d8+modifier.
Also, Sacred Weapon is an Action to cast. So thats one round you're not going to be attacking. And personally if I have a round where I can't attack because enemy is too far away, i'd rather use that to cast Bless (if I haven't gotten Shadow Blade yet from Sorcerer multi) or to cast Spirit Guardians once i'm 6Pali/5Sorc.
So with Polearm, Sacred Weapon will come out on top for dmg (but again really only if you have a first round where you can't attack) but now you're taking that over Warcaster, or if you take both you're losing out on ability increases. I personally think Conquest is a better option purely for Spiritual Weapon allowing you to take Warcaster as the only necessary feat. But just my thoughts.
Paly 6, sorc 12, fighter 2 getting no love?
Zero love ;p. Yea, we'd talked about triple classing discussions and videos but decided to keep it currently to the most popular of two classes only. Have you played one?
@@SkullSplitter I have done a couple of levels into warlock too, mostly so i have spells that recharge on a short rest. It was prety awesome tbh, i rarely needed to rest and could keep going and going and going
@@SkullSplitter currently on my way. Still debating when or if to take those two levels of fighter. But it should be after level 12.
@@Sharktopus86 pls tell me more about sorlockadin. I want to build one but I am not sure what the best choices are. Do I need 3 levels in warlock to sustain long rest exhaustion?
6 vengeance pal, 5 divine soul, 9 hex blade.
Yuan - Ti Sorcadin is my new character
Nice! Whats the part about them that you like the most?
I agree with this. Magic Resistance is actually broken lmao. Also if your DM allows Satyrs, Magic Resistance combined with being fey instead of humanoid is insane.
Sorcerers are nefarious?
My Inquisitor build literally caused my DM to ragequit and partykill because he forgot I could cast Shield twice.
That doesn't sound fun at all.
I am pretty sure only paladin spells can be used to smite....
it's so weird hearing people call it source a din versus sorc a din
thri kreen from the ua as a sorcadin
Nice. What would you name them?
@@SkullSplitter I'm calling mine Vincent Anwir, or "Eights" :]
No, the BEST Feat to get as a Sorcadin is Shield Mastery and go full sword and board.
Swords Bard 18 Paladin 2 is honestly low key better than all Sorcadins change my mind
If you are going only for damage and smites yeah. But the quickened metamagic is the real key for this multiclass. A lot of spells out of the bard or paladin are really good in and out of combat. And the ability to just use them as a bonus action can be a massive change in the Battlefield. Example you attack twice to an enemy, then as a bonus action you cas a quickened web in a group of enemies behind, so they must make a dex save or be restrained
My Knight of Spell and Song agrees. My DM might not...
You have the bard spell list which is trash (no green flame blade or booming blade) until magical secrets and delay extra attack until either lvl 6 or 8. You loose access to the sorcerer spell list (2nd strongest in the game and with clockwork soul or divine soul id argue the strongest) and metamagic for things such as a quickened or twinned haste, extended spell aid or quickened/twinned shield of faith/protection from evil and good or a quickened hold person/monster. All this to gain 1 extra die of damage per turn and a slight bump to your ac that isnt as reliable as shield (you also loose access to absorb elements) magical secrets at a very late point in the game (lvl 12 when most campaigns end by then, before or by lvl 14) half proficiencies in some skills and a couple expertise (id argue magical guidance is better than both of these).
I'm going paladin 9 cause revivify