Tesla Launched a Product NO ONE was Expecting!
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- Опубліковано 9 лип 2024
- Tesla launches a new standalone string inverter that the market wasn't expecting. During the RE+ Las Vegas expo, we did see and learn about the Tesla Solar Inverter, but what everyone was really interested in was the Powerwall 3. We received our first shipment of Tesla Solar Inverters, and we are excited to be able to offer it to our customers that need to upgrade their existing string inverter.
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Great review. Thanks for the info, Dale!
Glad it was helpful!
that is amazingly tiny for the power. The design of the inverter module also not far from the inverters used in cars. The technology reuse is allowing Tesla to do without a transformer which likely makes it cheaper in the long term. I would like to see an integration of EV DC charging through this so that solar panels directly (through MPPT) DC charge an EV.
Is there more info on the weather resistance? the side being mesh is quite interesting with the resistance rating.
Are these made in USA?
Very informative, thanks! We are in LA area and we would like to replace our Fronius inverter 3.8KW with a Tesla inverter. Do you guys do business over here?
The inverter spec sheet says that their RSD module is specced up to 600V (or up to 1000V for the larger size). Does that mean they could be paired with First Solar modules? Like the FS-6465
There rapid shutdown device is rated for three panels to be connected to it in series, and then each RSD can be connected for a maximum of five per string. You’ll be capped at the maximum power point input which is 600v on the inverter. So if it’s a higher voltage module you’ll probably only be able to do 8 in a string.
@@PacificSunTech FS-6465 modules are 172V Vmpp
Dale
SDGE is claiming that a total system replacement (even if its within the 10% or less system size increase) on NEM 2.0 forces a change to NEM 3.0 can you provide insight?
The NEM handbook says 1kW of 10% of the system rating whichever is lesser.
@@PacificSunTech and it calls out complete system replacement?
If we’re on NEM2.0, how much solar can you add?
PGE has a paper that says up to 1kw. That being said, clear it with PGE NEM Support first. PGE approved my 900w increase on NEM 2 as long as the inverter stayed the same. I think PGE is concerned about "peak" output increasing, not total production.
is there an optimizer?
No, but we did just post a video discussing the advance technology that's built into solar panels. ua-cam.com/video/BhuxEEOYwVs/v-deo.html
How much it cost ?
Can a never installed [now Tesla] Solar City inverter get installed with internet linking capability now a days?
(This is a serious question, since I have one... can I pay to activate it?)
Will the new Tesla inverter suffer the same fate, a few years in the future?
(This is a serious question, since it only takes a couple of years to orphan equipment.)
The Tesla inverter has wifi integrated into the unit, which the monitoring is integrated into the Tesla app used for the vehicles. so assuming you keep it connected to the internet you’re probably good.
"Technically up to 16 kW DC input*" Could you flesh that out a bit? Thanks.
We don't recommend 200% oversizing, 150% sure that's 10kW DC and you'll see some clipping during the peak summer months but nothing extreme like going all the way to the maximum 16kW DC input.
Liquid cooling in a 7.6kW Inverter has got to be expensive relative to other 7.6kW inverters. You didn't mention the price. Are we talking more or less than $0.50/W AC per inverter?
Tesla is cheaper than enphase/solaredge. Best value inverter on the market now
@@user-qm8zn9yh1d How much? Less than SMA hybrids when they are available...
@@user-qm8zn9yh1d Those are easy to beat. SolarEdge is junk, and Hoymiles beats Enphase on output power by +100 watts and they are half the price per watt AC. I'm trying to find out where Tesla stands on that scale. Thanks.
@@ToddDesiato anything else doesn’t make sense for majority of residential…
The spinning fan on it’s edge is a failure waiting to happen.
Too bad Tesla decided to use low cost high frequency, transformerless inverter technology instead of a longer lived, more reliable low frequency, transformer based inverter tech.
yes and no. consider that Tesla already makes inverters for EVs for outrageously powerful EV motors vs any motor found in a residential property.
Fewer Hybrid storage/solar inverters, optimiser-based inverters, and micro-inverters use a transformer because they add bulk weight. Shipping is a huge factor in getting costs down,
Shipping and distributor overhead is often a huge cost, so reducing weight is a huge factor in an install that you'd never realise because it's 'invisible' to the end user. Not so much if you're having to carry them around along with 80lb panels.
Transformerless are half the weight, allowing cheaper shipping costs and less bulk. While it's not as reliable, sure, Solar inverters are not a constant. They can last 20 years, but the technology has changed a lot in 20 years.
Costs have reduced, and the panels are much, much cheaper. Panels from 10-15 years ago were 125w/320w, now they're often 450w-600w for a cheaper price, more efficient, able to handle shading and half-cell, different materials, and are more efficient in overcast weather due to bifacial cells, which were just coming out in 2012/13. The new/old inverters also have to accommodate the higher voltage panels and this requires a more efficient MPPT design, or an optimiser/micro-inverter system to adapt the conventions.
A 4x MPPT system like the TSI can also mix different string configurations, i.e. roof directions, but also different ages and newer panel sizes with the per-string MPPT limits. Which is often why prices jump so much when moving from string inverters to SolarEdge/Enphase, necessary when your house roofing is not ideal, or has a lot of trees, towering neighbours, et al.
This generally ends up giving you more options, as well as future Grid metering support, i.e. Tariff changes and export/VPP compatibility. YMMV on how smart your state's grid infrastructure is, as to how necessary export controls are, i.e. some places will cap the export to 1-5kw unless you have newer metering installed, or vice versa, sic. Some places are implementing curtailing / DRED, ie sending a signal via the meter to reduce load, reduce/stop EV charging, cut your AC loads by 25%, etc. Their alternative if you don't have DRED/curtailing is they can raise the grid line voltage to shut down solar inverters in some areas where the grid isn't able to handle so much solar export.
You can always get an older string inverter that's reliable and compatible, but you would probably lose a lot of features like Dual MPPT or 3x/4x MPPTs, curtailing/export control, oversizing and flexible hybrid DC/AC connection to compatible storage modules.
While it's not a competition, also consider the TSI is likely what's being installed with the PW3 and PW+. Or at least modules are likely going into both systems, ensuring long-term support and secure updates/compatibility, long-term.
The other advantage of transfomerless is stability and compatibility with international markets like europe for 230v and 50/60hz grid markets, as well as places with 2-phase and 3-phase which the Powerwall systems aren't compatible with. While not a huge 'win', it does end up lowering the price when you have a single hardware unit instead of 50 variations needing 50 updates and 50 types of fuse, et al.
Weight is irrelevant in stationary applications. These manufacturers should NOT be sacrificing safety and surge capacity for the sake of weight. @@Toliman.
Tesla's propulsion inverter is specifically designed (fine tuned) for powering it's vehicle's motor/motors. They're not universally designed for powering the myriad or quantity of motor/inductive loads found in a home. @@zodiacfml
@@solarcharging9743 I don't think you are rational about this. You can still buy Transformer-based inverters.
But, you'll be paying more in the quote.
That's the hard facts. Especially in CA, where you have to Install DER/control compliant inverters. They either have to be internet accessible for commissioning, or the meter will be. That's an extra cost on top.
Newer inverters will have it built in. sic.
Besides, safety isn't what sells products. Price, Quality, Brand, Appearance and Value sells products. Especially when it costs more than $10k, people will get quotes for the work. As they should.
Weight and appearance are conversations to have when a product costs $2000 to $3000 more to install. Not off-the-shelf pricing, but the actual labor and parts to install.
I don't know what your local prices are like, but i'd hazard to guess that 90% of products for the 2kw to 10kw residential use, are not using transformers. And that's likely tied to features coming to new products.
And, with new cap/demand regulation, ie. CA Rule 21, DER / ISO2030.5-2018, that all future grid-tied inverters need to be Grid-Compliant / "Smart", so that it can accept demand-response metering signals or internet controls, i.e EV/HVAC with software / SCADA/Modbus modules that limit import and export based on grid conditions. And, that's coming to a lot of countries around the world.
There are $600 5kw Solar Inverters with hybrid DC Battery Storage functionality built in. That will be standards compliant because they are newer.
Price/Value is vitally important. People just can't care about longevity/safety when they want ROI. And, when people are selling chinese made solar inverters for $600 vs $3000, there are lots of arguments that have to be asked, answered and doubts/concerns adequately remedied.
Because you can buy 4 inverters for the price of 1 quality brand inverter.
While you might not make that choice for ethical or moral reasons, or reasons of safety, etc. Others would. If Chinese made solar inverters are approved for install, and they're under half the price; If someone is undercutting a quote by well over 20%, people will understandably have doubts and questions.
And that's happening in the market currently.
That's what the Installer and the quote has to prove, that they can make those arguments for the customer on their behalf, and the manufacturer has to make a product that can compete. SMA, Fronius, SolarEdge, et al. Still make Transformer based products, if you look for them.
To a residential solar buyer, it's either an Investment, or it's a box-on-the-wall.
Or somewhere in between. They are Grid-Tied, not off-grid, and they are purchasing a system, more often than not, to save money on future consumption costs.
They will not pay 3x to 4x more for a product unless there's a perceived benefit and perceived value increase. And, unless there's a tangible reason to do so, they will not pay more, when a quote is going to be significantly higher.
i.e. Off-Grid applications, or 48V/12V applications where you want to mix new and old hardware, have an existing setup of 48v or 12v/24v batteries and MPPT solar charge controllers, don't mind the hazards of DC for home use, i.e. appliances can be converted to LV DC plugs for Mobile/Off-Grid use, You can add Generators, you aren't exposed to DC fire hazards because the equipment is isolated or put behind a firewall / cupboard you don't have access to, sic.
Problem is, a Tesla system isn't in your wheelhouse if you're going off-grid. It's feasible in some places, but it's nearly impossible on the Powerwall 2 unless approved.
You can get the same thing cheaper. You can also choose not to use LiPo or LiFePo4 systems, and so on. But that's not everyone.
The price difference for cheap solar and "premium" is often 300% to 450% higher than the competition. That might be unfair, but there's no getting around that problem, that people are selling 5kw solar inverters for under $600.