@khekhem The Spartan 'national dish' was melas zomos ('black soup'), which was made from boiled pigs' legs, pig's blood, salt and vinegar (the vinegar, it is thought, was added to keep the blood from clotting).
I remember reading gladiators would essentially be fat bodybuilders by today's standards - as in very muscly but also overweight to give their organs and bones a little more shielding for the combat in the arena
this actually true. i've seen several religious/non-religious debates where a scientific-minded person admits he doesn't know something (e.g. timeline before big bang), only to have a religious person proudly go "I DO know!". Needless to say that what he "knows" is just a story to fill a blank in actual knowledge.
I truly love your point of view - You believe in something that resonates with you in a very powerful way, but you also have what seems to be a very clear awareness of how people across all beliefs feel. I don't believe that man claiming to understand the supernatural defines the supernatural, especially through mediums that are by definition replicable by man, but it excites me to see a believer is open to contrary ideas. I cannot truly invest in that which can't be proven, but you are awesome.
To be fair, in practice the general idea of only eating plant matter would cover most of those issues. As someone who eats meat for pleasure and convenience, I'd imagine that being vegetarian kind of implies a certain diligence in the balancing of your diet.
Thanks for the compliment, you are too kind! I do indeed think that some things can't be comprehended or defined by us. Because I believe this, I have to acknowledge it's existence. Even if it only exists as opposed to what we can comprehend or define, this opposition makes it real for me. So if trying to comprehend the incomprehensible with reason makes me a believer, well then I guess I am :D
Until the last river has run dry, that the last tree has been cut, that the last fish has been killed, that the last land has lost its fertility will we realize that money cannot be eaten. I do agree a crisis triggers a social revolution, unfortunately this is a crisis we cannot afford. Pushing the earth to the point where it cannot self-regenerate is suicide.
Yea you do need protein but you don't need to get your protein from meat. The fact is that basicly all living creatures, herbivores or carnivores, need protien (its required to build new cells). And as we all know animals that only eat plants still survive and their cells still reproduce. And that is what protein is for. To create and repair cells which is done from breaking the protein ingested down to different usefull enzyms.
@ThaMahstah I can simply quote myself: "Stephen did not say all religionists are arrogant, and no scientists are arrogant. He said: 1) scientists admit they don't know stuff all the time, and 2) religionists do this much less, they claim to know the truth much more often. And within the context of those two statements, it's very weird that religionists call scientists arrogant. And in that conclusion, he's absolutely 100% correct. Sometimes being right doesn't mean you're arrogant."
He wasn't completely vegetarian, but there is some basis in truth when people say that he is. I've heard in some documentaries that he wasn't a big fan of meat because he felt it was "unclean" and would as often as not choose to not partake, but of course as the Fuhrer he would always be attending banquets and feasts and the like and it would considered quite rude to the host if he didn't eat a least a little bit of meat.
@ThaMahstah Hi. Welcome to reasoning within context. Stephen did not say all religionists are arrogant, and no scientists are arrogant. He said: 1) scientists admit they don't know stuff all the time, and 2) religionists do this much less, they claim to know the truth much more often. And within the context of those two statements, it's very weird that religionists call scientists arrogant. And in that conclusion, he's absolutely 100% correct. Sometimes being right doesn't mean you're arrogant.
Most heart and cancerous diseases are hugely genetic anyway, a very good friend of mine who was an ardent vegetarian, incredibly fit and fairly young recently had two strokes due to hereditary issues. That is not to say that keeping healthy is not important, it merely shows if you are increased risk there if often nothing you can do.
They weren't _hunting_ the cows. They were herding them and bringing them to market. They mostly ate stuff like rice and beans, so it's entirely possible some cowboys didn't bother with meat (but more likely because it was too expensive and was too worth selling, than for any health or moral concern).
When it comes to food, I think arguing if vegetarianism is better or not is just plain stupid. You can live perfectly with or without it, as millions of living people prove it. However, problems such as the over-consumption of meat, junk food, sodas, GMOs, obesity, ingredient provenance or even the establishment of patents on natural seeds are way more important issues than vegetarianism.
True, but what I meant is that being vegan pretty much eliminates the problems of eating too much crappy food (and with that, overweight), since most junk foods have animal products processed into them in some way. I suppose dilligence isn't the right term. Beans & rice is the easiest thing to make, and it provides all the proteins you need after a workout for example. The gladiator thing makes perfect sense to me, I'd do it too if meat wasn't so tasty.
No, fat makes you fat. It's quite astounding I know. Sugar raises your blood sugar levels, which makes all the fat you eat stick on your muscles like a sticky balloon, but if you only ate sugar and no fat, you would be lean. The danger area is high sugar AND high fat. And meats tend to have quite a bit of fat on them as is. This is why Quorn is better.
We already have enough food to feed the whole planet, if that's what you're worried about. Most people don't believe it but hunger in Africa can be solved just by giving them the amount of food wasted in Europe. Another way to look at things is that there are more over-weighted people than under-weighted, which is why malnutrition is becoming a more important problem. Anyway humanity's biggest problem by far is overpopulation, it is the root of nearly all other major problems, such as pollution.
Calling a rock a rock doesn't make you arrogant, as such neither does calling stupid people stupid make you arrogant. Arrogance is presumption, and really all religions presume they know the unknowable. So really it's a perfectly safe statement to go by that all religions are arrogant by their very nature.
Smoking and drinking were the normal things to do, it was odd to find someone that didn't do either or barely did it, like Hitler, so they basically wanted to think he was a vegetarian as well, just to make him even more weird as a person. Mr. Fry wasn't trying to say that if you don't smoke or drink then you're a vegetarian.
That's what you are implying though. I love Stephen Fry, but I've seen him discussing this subject with the same rigour as creationists. I do hope that wasn't really how he feels about the subject, because in my opinion an open mind and the readiness to be proven wrong are the corner stone of intellectual discourse. That being said, he does actually say the same thing when it comes to scientific research.
Did anyone hear what Fry described their diet as 'Barley, beans and Dry (...)? I thought he said 'Ash' which seems absurd but didn't stop me googling to no avail. Cheers.
did you not hear Stephen? 'it was important they were quite fat' (nothing to do with 'Optimal Performance'... meat helps with that but still) flesh wounds do much less permanent/fatal damage if the blade has a load of flab to go through, also it's cheaper, why waste money on expensive meat when you're sending them out to potentially die?
Not everbody who eats no flesh is a vegetarian. Vegetarianism includes the conscious decision to refrain from eating animal produce. Just not liking the taste of it is not being vegetarian.
GaelicCelt1990 The overwhelmingly important point here is that, whether or not Hitler followed his doctor's orders, his diet had nothing to do with his ideology. This is where ad-hom users try to create a link among a person, their behavior, and their beliefs.
@ThaMahstah Ah, circle reasoning (or begging the question), perfect example of religious fanaticism without critical thinking. Did you do that just to prove Stephen's point?
@corvus13 I don't think they were vegans because of moral reasons, such as animal cruelty, they just ate that way because it was a good diet to stay healthy. And probably cheap, seeing as many were slaves.
Actually it is quite the opposite of coming from his jewish side. The idea is that Hitler wanted to create a master race, and wanted them to be pure. That's why he was against smoking, drinking, and also meat.
There isn't much argument among those who've actually reviewed the research that a vegetarian/vegan diet has major health benefits in terms of disease prevention, moreso with a vegan diet. GMOs are a legitimate issue but top killers, cancer and heart disease, have existed decades before the introduction of GMOs in 1994. I'm still with you on GMOs but focus on animal products should be first. It's like smoking and worry about razorburn.
you dont have to use 'also' in order to imply separation. i think pretty much everybody knew what stephen was saying 'people want to assume he was a vegitarian- i mean its certainly true he didnt smoke or drink...' he is acknowleging hitler practiced healthy habbits that most people didnt in that time- and people jumped to the conclusion he was vegitarian. your male/piano metaphor is obsurd- a better example would be: "people assume Im lazy- i mean its certainly true that i dont do sports...'
Vegetarianism is awesome. People always say to me that I need protein but meat and dairy just make me feel sluggish and tired, though I will eat dairy now and then. Also, protein is in a lot of things. and giving up meat is the best thing I've ever done. I feel better than ever.
Aaron Kay Well not fat. Just kinda chunky. It makes sense if you think about it. Subcutaneous fat allows for some protection for more vital muscles and organs, and looks spectacular and bloody when sliced without causing serious damage. Remember these guys were the boxers/wrestlers/ufc fighters of their day and a gorey show would have been a great crowd pleaser but the wounds couldn't be lethal and by extension career ending.
@corvus13 The vegan diet, not the vegan idealogy. Not test conducted on a corpse can determine the operations of the deceased person's mind. I'm a vegetarian, but it's not even slightly for moral reasons. I find the moral arguments unpersuasive. I do, however, love my health and environment. No need for morality to even enter into it. For the gladiators, obviously their concern was on optimal performance. I doubt it was because they cared for fluffy creatures.
I'm not religious but I consider this new breed of internet atheists about as open-minded as dogmatic zealots. Dogmas aside, a lot of religions are at their core a form of philosophy. I do believe in science when it comes down to learning and understanding things that are knowledgeable. Yet I find it a classical case of man being the measure of all things to think that everything that IS can be funneled through our senses. I find that arrogant and narrow-minded. Dogmas, not believing, r arrogant
The original article claims nothing like that "The Ephesus δ15N values also indicate a generally minor consumption of animal proteins, like meat and dairy products. *But the most probable cause for the depletion of 15N in Ephesus could have been a frequent consumption of legumes.* [34] detected signs of human consumption of pulses in Neolithic Turkey. Archaeo-botanical analyses in Sagalassos, Turkey, show that peas and lentils were extensively cultivated since the Early-Middle Imperial Roman time from 25BC until 300AD [33] and even more in the Late Imperial Roman period. Legumes generally have very low δ15N values due to their molecular nitrogen fixation by symbiotic bacteria which in turn might be reflected in the consumer's collagen. Presumably, the regular consumption of large amounts of pulses lowers human δ15N values considerably." So essentially no conclusion about meat consumption was made.
Conclusions The stable isotope values show that all individuals consumed C3 plants, such as wheat and barley as staple food. A few individuals also show signs for consumption of C4 plants. The different groups' (gladiators, NG-males, females, infants) stable isotope data do not differ significantly. The δ15N values of Ephesus are relatively low compared to other sites from Roman times. There are two data outliers: one female from the gladiator burial site and one gladiator. These two individuals probably migrated from another geographical region or had a different diet. The data presented are among the few isotope palaeodiet studies based on a large sample of human bone material from Roman populations of Turkey. Because we did not find any hints for substantial diagenetic alterations, we believe that the significant differences in Sr-concentrations have predominantly physiological reasons. If we accept real physiological differences, arising from different diet habits, then the high Sr/Ca-ratio for gladiators seems to be associated to a specific alimentation during their years spent at the fighter's school.
There are vegans who are quite successful as athletes and body builders, etc. Just google vegan athletes or vegan bodybuilders ... they prove your idea is a misconception. I've been vegan for about 5 years and now feel better than ever.
@rahn45 Calling people you perceive as stupid 'stupid' can be very arrogant, depending on the context. And presumption isn't by far the only ingredient of arrogance.
Funny, but Hitler did in fact claim to be a vegetarian. Amusingly, arguments to the contrary are largely produced by vegetarians who don't want to be associated with him and make up stuff like his doctor preparing various stuff for him that apparently contained animal parts. Even if this is true, Hitler still had vegetarianism as a personal ideal so the link is perfectly legitimate.
High protein, vitamins and minerals. Beans are high in calcium, phosphorus, iron and the B vitamins, niacin and folate. Soybeans are especially high in protein. Eat enough and you'll gain weight.
***** that's also why gladiators had the tendency to spontaneously float up in the air like balloons once they'd had an overly large meal.. It's said that that only 1 in 10 gladiators died in the arena, bu that's just because the other 9 were never seen or heard from again..
I read what he said and it is only partly accurate. I was correcting his errors. My old man is a nutritional scientist and the case against vegetarianism is solid. If you are going to be a vegetarian, do it in India where you can get your trace B group vitamins from breathing in shit and ecoli as you walk down the street.
Your initial statement is accurate. However, your latter statement is not. While some religious people claim to have all the answers based on their religion,he messiah will come, but very few religions claim to have every answer to every question. Christianity for example, holds the dogma that no one will know when the second coming of Christ, yet there are enough and more people who would tell your otherwise. And this is just an example, not a prelude for a conversation about the Rapture.
"I'd imagine that being vegetarian kind of implies a certain diligence in the balancing of your diet." Only very slightly. The main issue has to do with getting enough protein. The lazy alternative is to not be a vegan Nazi and just supplement with the occasional fish or eggs. Otherwise, you'll be looking at beans, whole grain, soy, nuts etc. In either case, one doesn't actually need huge amounts of protein so most of a vegetarian diet will be a rough mix of whatever vegetables you like.
No, I completely disagree with you (sorry :p). The fact that the world population is skyrocketing, and has been for years, doesn't just cause problems but is the problem. We have a limited amount of resources at our disposal that regenerate much slower than we consume them. You cannot indefinitively divide those resources by the amount of humans in the planet. That's a certainty. We don't really need to find new techniques. We need to demultiply. I hope we don't realize that the hard way.
This doesn't surprise me whatsoever because after I stopped eating meat, eggs and milk, my health improved drastically. It's kind of sad that you can't eat all the delicious meat based food but I think it's worth it when you consider your health. It's just like giving up smoking or drinking.
Stephen Fry reveals his ignorance by comparing "religionists" to "scientists". A scientist's job is to discover. A "religionist" (whatever that is) job isn't to discover. Theology isn't a study of discovery.
MegaMapper but you WOULD want your gladiators eating the best stuff. Gladiators were a huge investment and brought in large amounts of wealth and prestige for their owners. The healthier and happier you kept your gladiator, the better he would perform. But you are correct. Meat was a lot harder to come by, even for the wealthy. Vegitables and grain would be the only truly affordable option, especially for gladiator schools which would have dozens of hungry fighters
VladtheImpaler31 We have a good idea, but can't be completely certain. There's nothing wrong with just using English pronunciation, as long as you're consistent. No one ever pronounces Cicero or Caesar correctly, and don't even start on Greek names.
***** Kee-Kay-Rroh Kigh Surr *I* pronounce it properly. Anyhow, we have more than just a 'good' idea. We *know* how they pronounced certain things, and that has told us how to pronounce many other things. If you want to speak Latin, learn to pronounce it properly.
Dara o'brien once put it very simply and beautifully. "Science knows it doesn't know everything, otherwise it would stop."
@khekhem The Spartan 'national dish' was melas zomos ('black soup'), which was made from boiled pigs' legs, pig's blood, salt and vinegar (the vinegar, it is thought, was added to keep the blood from clotting).
I remember reading gladiators would essentially be fat bodybuilders by today's standards - as in very muscly but also overweight to give their organs and bones a little more shielding for the combat in the arena
this actually true.
i've seen several religious/non-religious debates where a scientific-minded person admits he doesn't know something (e.g. timeline before big bang), only to have a religious person proudly go "I DO know!". Needless to say that what he "knows" is just a story to fill a blank in actual knowledge.
I truly love your point of view - You believe in something that resonates with you in a very powerful way, but you also have what seems to be a very clear awareness of how people across all beliefs feel. I don't believe that man claiming to understand the supernatural defines the supernatural, especially through mediums that are by definition replicable by man, but it excites me to see a believer is open to contrary ideas. I cannot truly invest in that which can't be proven, but you are awesome.
I forgot that sarcasm is often lost over the internet.
oh my lord, his suit.
I love how Stephen can't resist sneering at the phrase 'prehistoric science'!
thank you! alan davis is also a veggy, and he's pretty smart...
Stephen Fry may well be my favorite person of all time.
2:35 lol Stephen Fry said dodo.
To be fair, in practice the general idea of only eating plant matter would cover most of those issues. As someone who eats meat for pleasure and convenience, I'd imagine that being vegetarian kind of implies a certain diligence in the balancing of your diet.
Thanks for the compliment, you are too kind! I do indeed think that some things can't be comprehended or defined by us. Because I believe this, I have to acknowledge it's existence. Even if it only exists as opposed to what we can comprehend or define, this opposition makes it real for me. So if trying to comprehend the incomprehensible with reason makes me a believer, well then I guess I am :D
Until the last river has run dry, that the last tree has been cut, that the last fish has been killed, that the last land has lost its fertility will we realize that money cannot be eaten. I do agree a crisis triggers a social revolution, unfortunately this is a crisis we cannot afford. Pushing the earth to the point where it cannot self-regenerate is suicide.
Yea you do need protein but you don't need to get your protein from meat. The fact is that basicly all living creatures, herbivores or carnivores, need protien (its required to build new cells). And as we all know animals that only eat plants still survive and their cells still reproduce. And that is what protein is for. To create and repair cells which is done from breaking the protein ingested down to different usefull enzyms.
exactly. the behavior is a real thing, the 'status' or 'identity' is all fictional, it only exists in people's imaginations.
@ThaMahstah I can simply quote myself:
"Stephen did not say all religionists are arrogant, and no scientists are arrogant. He said: 1) scientists admit they don't know stuff all the time, and 2) religionists do this much less, they claim to know the truth much more often. And within the context of those two statements, it's very weird that religionists call scientists arrogant.
And in that conclusion, he's absolutely 100% correct. Sometimes being right doesn't mean you're arrogant."
I'm with you on that, however my concern for GMOs isn't health related. It's the business model which companies like Monsanto adopt.
He wasn't completely vegetarian, but there is some basis in truth when people say that he is. I've heard in some documentaries that he wasn't a big fan of meat because he felt it was "unclean" and would as often as not choose to not partake, but of course as the Fuhrer he would always be attending banquets and feasts and the like and it would considered quite rude to the host if he didn't eat a least a little bit of meat.
@ThaMahstah Hi. Welcome to reasoning within context. Stephen did not say all religionists are arrogant, and no scientists are arrogant. He said: 1) scientists admit they don't know stuff all the time, and 2) religionists do this much less, they claim to know the truth much more often. And within the context of those two statements, it's very weird that religionists call scientists arrogant.
And in that conclusion, he's absolutely 100% correct. Sometimes being right doesn't mean you're arrogant.
It doesn't really matter since it's not what's concerning about GMOs.
Well, according to a Wikipedia article with lots of sources, Hitler was vegetarian but only from 1937 onwards.
Most heart and cancerous diseases are hugely genetic anyway, a very good friend of mine who was an ardent vegetarian, incredibly fit and fairly young recently had two strokes due to hereditary issues. That is not to say that keeping healthy is not important, it merely shows if you are increased risk there if often nothing you can do.
Health is not the most important issue concerning GMOs but they have been proven to heighten the risk of cancer.
Cowboys, Phil? Cowboy vegans!?
They weren't _hunting_ the cows. They were herding them and bringing them to market. They mostly ate stuff like rice and beans, so it's entirely possible some cowboys didn't bother with meat (but more likely because it was too expensive and was too worth selling, than for any health or moral concern).
When it comes to food, I think arguing if vegetarianism is better or not is just plain stupid. You can live perfectly with or without it, as millions of living people prove it. However, problems such as the over-consumption of meat, junk food, sodas, GMOs, obesity, ingredient provenance or even the establishment of patents on natural seeds are way more important issues than vegetarianism.
Fry was lucky the Fashion Police weren't on duty that day. He would still be in prison now!
AGGHHH THE IRONY!!!
True, but what I meant is that being vegan pretty much eliminates the problems of eating too much crappy food (and with that, overweight), since most junk foods have animal products processed into them in some way.
I suppose dilligence isn't the right term. Beans & rice is the easiest thing to make, and it provides all the proteins you need after a workout for example. The gladiator thing makes perfect sense to me, I'd do it too if meat wasn't so tasty.
No, fat makes you fat. It's quite astounding I know. Sugar raises your blood sugar levels, which makes all the fat you eat stick on your muscles like a sticky balloon, but if you only ate sugar and no fat, you would be lean. The danger area is high sugar AND high fat. And meats tend to have quite a bit of fat on them as is. This is why Quorn is better.
We already have enough food to feed the whole planet, if that's what you're worried about. Most people don't believe it but hunger in Africa can be solved just by giving them the amount of food wasted in Europe. Another way to look at things is that there are more over-weighted people than under-weighted, which is why malnutrition is becoming a more important problem. Anyway humanity's biggest problem by far is overpopulation, it is the root of nearly all other major problems, such as pollution.
Russell Crowe is a Kiwi.
Calling a rock a rock doesn't make you arrogant, as such neither does calling stupid people stupid make you arrogant.
Arrogance is presumption, and really all religions presume they know the unknowable. So really it's a perfectly safe statement to go by that all religions are arrogant by their very nature.
Smoking and drinking were the normal things to do, it was odd to find someone that didn't do either or barely did it, like Hitler, so they basically wanted to think he was a vegetarian as well, just to make him even more weird as a person.
Mr. Fry wasn't trying to say that if you don't smoke or drink then you're a vegetarian.
Was it wood ash they ate ?
Timmy K Bone ash. They used it as a calcium/mineral supplement but they didn't think about it in those terms.
That's what you are implying though. I love Stephen Fry, but I've seen him discussing this subject with the same rigour as creationists. I do hope that wasn't really how he feels about the subject, because in my opinion an open mind and the readiness to be proven wrong are the corner stone of intellectual discourse. That being said, he does actually say the same thing when it comes to scientific research.
Did anyone hear what Fry described their diet as 'Barley, beans and Dry (...)? I thought he said 'Ash' which seems absurd but didn't stop me googling to no avail.
Cheers.
Joseph Davids He said ash. it's actually bone ash.
did you not hear Stephen? 'it was important they were quite fat' (nothing to do with 'Optimal Performance'... meat helps with that but still) flesh wounds do much less permanent/fatal damage if the blade has a load of flab to go through, also it's cheaper, why waste money on expensive meat when you're sending them out to potentially die?
Hitler had been put on a vegetarian diet for a time. His doc thought it would help with his flatulence, apparently. May need citation.
+alumbo According to his taster, who died last year, he was a vegetarian, at least in the last few years of his life.
Not everbody who eats no flesh is a vegetarian. Vegetarianism includes the conscious decision to refrain from eating animal produce. Just not liking the taste of it is not being vegetarian.
+Urs F I dare you to try to find a dictionary that supports your definition.
GaelicCelt1990 The overwhelmingly important point here is that, whether or not Hitler followed his doctor's orders, his diet had nothing to do with his ideology. This is where ad-hom users try to create a link among a person, their behavior, and their beliefs.
+Urs F No, that would be a vegan. Vegetarianism is just electing to eat vegetables.
I don't know how on Earth you managed to mix those two up.
2:36 Stephen says "do do." Oh my God, I'm so immature...
0:11 Sean has horns
😂 how u spot that?
@cardthrow18 I think so too, he is a great person and an inspiration to me :)
@ThaMahstah Ah, circle reasoning (or begging the question), perfect example of religious fanaticism without critical thinking. Did you do that just to prove Stephen's point?
we just don't know!
@corvus13 I don't think they were vegans because of moral reasons, such as animal cruelty, they just ate that way because it was a good diet to stay healthy. And probably cheap, seeing as many were slaves.
Actually it is quite the opposite of coming from his jewish side. The idea is that Hitler wanted to create a master race, and wanted them to be pure. That's why he was against smoking, drinking, and also meat.
There isn't much argument among those who've actually reviewed the research that a vegetarian/vegan diet has major health benefits in terms of disease prevention, moreso with a vegan diet. GMOs are a legitimate issue but top killers, cancer and heart disease, have existed decades before the introduction of GMOs in 1994. I'm still with you on GMOs but focus on animal products should be first. It's like smoking and worry about razorburn.
you dont have to use 'also' in order to imply separation. i think pretty much everybody knew what stephen was saying
'people want to assume he was a vegitarian- i mean its certainly true he didnt smoke or drink...'
he is acknowleging hitler practiced healthy habbits that most people didnt in that time- and people jumped to the conclusion he was vegitarian.
your male/piano metaphor is obsurd- a better example would be: "people assume Im lazy- i mean its certainly true that i dont do sports...'
Vegetarianism is awesome. People always say to me that I need protein but meat and dairy just make me feel sluggish and tired, though I will eat dairy now and then. Also, protein is in a lot of things. and giving up meat is the best thing I've ever done. I feel better than ever.
Well humans are omnivores really. We don't exactly have a herbivores body and not quite a carnivores body either.
They probably wern't fat though, I eat that diet but don't train for battle and I'm skinny as a rail.
Aaron Kay Well not fat. Just kinda chunky. It makes sense if you think about it. Subcutaneous fat allows for some protection for more vital muscles and organs, and looks spectacular and bloody when sliced without causing serious damage. Remember these guys were the boxers/wrestlers/ufc fighters of their day and a gorey show would have been a great crowd pleaser but the wounds couldn't be lethal and by extension career ending.
Archaeology isn't a science though.
@corvus13
The vegan diet, not the vegan idealogy. Not test conducted on a corpse can determine the operations of the deceased person's mind.
I'm a vegetarian, but it's not even slightly for moral reasons. I find the moral arguments unpersuasive. I do, however, love my health and environment. No need for morality to even enter into it. For the gladiators, obviously their concern was on optimal performance. I doubt it was because they cared for fluffy creatures.
I'm not religious but I consider this new breed of internet atheists about as open-minded as dogmatic zealots. Dogmas aside, a lot of religions are at their core a form of philosophy. I do believe in science when it comes down to learning and understanding things that are knowledgeable. Yet I find it a classical case of man being the measure of all things to think that everything that IS can be funneled through our senses. I find that arrogant and narrow-minded. Dogmas, not believing, r arrogant
Ha! Another reason for my dad to abolish this silly idea that vegans are crazy, he loved Gladiator. LoL :)
I knew this from Tim Minchin
what did he say at 1:40 , i didnt get it
"Shopping lists"
nimisha gupta Shopping lists
The original article claims nothing like that
"The Ephesus δ15N values also indicate a generally minor consumption of animal proteins, like meat and dairy products. *But the most probable cause for the depletion of 15N in Ephesus could have been a frequent consumption of legumes.* [34] detected signs of human consumption of pulses in Neolithic Turkey. Archaeo-botanical analyses in Sagalassos, Turkey, show that peas and lentils were extensively cultivated since the Early-Middle Imperial Roman time from 25BC until 300AD [33] and even more in the Late Imperial Roman period.
Legumes generally have very low δ15N values due to their molecular nitrogen fixation by symbiotic bacteria which in turn might be reflected in the consumer's collagen. Presumably, the regular consumption of large amounts of pulses lowers human δ15N values considerably." So essentially no conclusion about meat consumption was made.
Conclusions
The stable isotope values show that all individuals consumed C3 plants, such as wheat and barley as staple food. A few individuals also show signs for consumption of C4 plants. The different groups' (gladiators, NG-males, females, infants) stable isotope data do not differ significantly. The δ15N values of Ephesus are relatively low compared to other sites from Roman times.
There are two data outliers: one female from the gladiator burial site and one gladiator. These two individuals probably migrated from another geographical region or had a different diet. The data presented are among the few isotope palaeodiet studies based on a large sample of human bone material from Roman populations of Turkey. Because we did not find any hints for substantial diagenetic alterations, we believe that the significant differences in Sr-concentrations have predominantly physiological reasons. If we accept real physiological differences, arising from different diet habits, then the high Sr/Ca-ratio for gladiators seems to be associated to a specific alimentation during their years spent at the fighter's school.
the answer to how they know is copralites, fossiled shit, which tells you exactly what was eaten.
@ThaMahstah He's right, though.
There are vegans who are quite successful as athletes and body builders, etc. Just google vegan athletes or vegan bodybuilders ... they prove your idea is a misconception. I've been vegan for about 5 years and now feel better than ever.
GLADIATORS READY
GLADIATOR. YOU WILL GO ON MY FIRST WHISTLE.
@rahn45 Calling people you perceive as stupid 'stupid' can be very arrogant, depending on the context. And presumption isn't by far the only ingredient of arrogance.
scientists to religionists - 'we just don't know so how the bloody hell do you think you know?'
*vegetarians
Stephen Fry is a champion of all humanity.
@juugoolart Shopping list.
So were the Roman soldiers. They were not allowed meat as long as they were in the military.
Russel Crowe is from New Zealand, not Australia.
Born in New Zealand, long time resident of Australia, he owns property here and even a rugby team here, he chooses to live here to he's Australian.
basilbrushnz Excuse me? I don't personally send them back and I don't support the government doing it either.
isnt that the same island?
I thought Spartacus lead actor after season 1 was Australian.
Knowing and believing are very different. I'm sure many religious people claim to know the unknowable, but please don't lump us all together.
Shopping list!
bwahahaha
Veganism isn't a diet, they were vegetalian not vegan
You'd think Hitler would be a forfeit...
so if your vegetarian then ull be stronger? then how come i dont exercise a lot but i eat soo much gaddayum meat that i am strong? true story
Funny, but Hitler did in fact claim to be a vegetarian. Amusingly, arguments to the contrary are largely produced by vegetarians who don't want to be associated with him and make up stuff like his doctor preparing various stuff for him that apparently contained animal parts. Even if this is true, Hitler still had vegetarianism as a personal ideal so the link is perfectly legitimate.
@thundrbug then only one side would be strong haha
So you admit it's a choice
And lets start off the ramblings of people with too much time on their hands below...
Who says vay-gans?
Jordan Petersen, for one. It's like people who say "your-eye-nal"
The french
How do you get fat on barley and beans?
High protein, vitamins and minerals. Beans are high in calcium, phosphorus, iron and the B vitamins, niacin and folate. Soybeans are especially high in protein. Eat enough and you'll gain weight.
Very informative. Thanks.
(That must've taken a shitload of beans, though.)
By not farting after eating the beans.
***** that's also why gladiators had the tendency to spontaneously float up in the air like balloons once they'd had an overly large meal.. It's said that that only 1 in 10 gladiators died in the arena, bu that's just because the other 9 were never seen or heard from again..
C.S. Jones we just don't know...
I read what he said and it is only partly accurate. I was correcting his errors. My old man is a nutritional scientist and the case against vegetarianism is solid. If you are going to be a vegetarian, do it in India where you can get your trace B group vitamins from breathing in shit and ecoli as you walk down the street.
Your initial statement is accurate. However, your latter statement is not. While some religious people claim to have all the answers based on their religion,he messiah will come, but very few religions claim to have every answer to every question. Christianity for example, holds the dogma that no one will know when the second coming of Christ, yet there are enough and more people who would tell your otherwise. And this is just an example, not a prelude for a conversation about the Rapture.
Always expect Sean Lock to draw the biggest laughter in a crowd.
Can one really consider hours spent watching QI clips as 'wasted time'?
"I'd imagine that being vegetarian kind of implies a certain diligence in the balancing of your diet."
Only very slightly. The main issue has to do with getting enough protein. The lazy alternative is to not be a vegan Nazi and just supplement with the occasional fish or eggs. Otherwise, you'll be looking at beans, whole grain, soy, nuts etc. In either case, one doesn't actually need huge amounts of protein so most of a vegetarian diet will be a rough mix of whatever vegetables you like.
@thundrbug hahaha
No, I completely disagree with you (sorry :p). The fact that the world population is skyrocketing, and has been for years, doesn't just cause problems but is the problem. We have a limited amount of resources at our disposal that regenerate much slower than we consume them. You cannot indefinitively divide those resources by the amount of humans in the planet. That's a certainty. We don't really need to find new techniques. We need to demultiply. I hope we don't realize that the hard way.
This doesn't surprise me whatsoever because after I stopped eating meat, eggs and milk, my health improved drastically. It's kind of sad that you can't eat all the delicious meat based food but I think it's worth it when you consider your health. It's just like giving up smoking or drinking.
Stephen Fry reveals his ignorance by comparing "religionists" to "scientists".
A scientist's job is to discover.
A "religionist" (whatever that is) job isn't to discover. Theology isn't a study of discovery.
All of those problems you were talking about are not real problems.
isnt Russell crowe from New Zealand?
Gladatiors were slaves and vegetables were much cheaper than meat so for sure you don't want your slave to eat the best stuff.
MegaMapper but you WOULD want your gladiators eating the best stuff. Gladiators were a huge investment and brought in large amounts of wealth and prestige for their owners.
The healthier and happier you kept your gladiator, the better he would perform.
But you are correct. Meat was a lot harder to come by, even for the wealthy. Vegitables and grain would be the only truly affordable option, especially for gladiator schools which would have dozens of hungry fighters
the good stuff for sure but not the best, gladiator would be too expensive then.
The gladiators are not there!
Stephen mispronounced the word: Hordearii
Horr-day-uhrr-ee-ee
No one _really_ knows what Latin sounded like.
***** We can safely determine pronunciation through historical clues, and also due to the fact that many of their tools for teaching still exist.
VladtheImpaler31
We have a good idea, but can't be completely certain.
There's nothing wrong with just using English pronunciation, as long as you're consistent.
No one ever pronounces Cicero or Caesar correctly, and don't even start on Greek names.
***** Kee-Kay-Rroh
Kigh Surr
*I* pronounce it properly. Anyhow, we have more than just a 'good' idea. We *know* how they pronounced certain things, and that has told us how to pronounce many other things. If you want to speak Latin, learn to pronounce it properly.
horr-day-uhrr-ee- *ay*
Well this didn’t age well, what with climate change and Covid the scientific community seemed to know everything
Some of the strongest people in the world eat meat. And are plenty healthy to boot.
Gladiators only ate Gladioli
Gladiators don't equal Spartans.
:/
Care to develop?
im sorry how could they get fat if they onli ate those things
I would throw golden coins on the ground to see vegetarians fight to death.